Two researchers at Indiana University believe they have created a computer program that can better and more cheaply diagnose medical problems. From Indiana University:
Using an artificial intelligence framework combining Markov Decision Processes and Dynamic Decision Networks, IU School of Informatics and Computing researchers Casey Bennett and Kris Hauser show how simulation modeling that understands and predicts the outcomes of treatment could reduce health care costs by over 50 percent while also improving patient outcomes by nearly 50 percent. [...]
Using 500 randomly selected patients from that group for simulations, the two compared actual doctor performance and patient outcomes against sequential decision-making models, all using real patient data. They found great disparity in the cost per unit of outcome change when the artificial intelligence model’s cost of $189 was compared to the treatment-as-usual cost of $497.
“This was at the same time that the AI approach obtained a 30 to 35 percent increase in patient outcomes,” Bennett said. “And we determined that tweaking certain model parameters could enhance the outcome advantage to about 50 percent more improvement at about half the cost.”
Whether a practical application will emerge from this particular effort is yet to be seen, but this general concept is the future. Many groups are looking at how to use computer modeling to diagnose patients and the research is very promising
This development is worth highlighting because so much of the debate in Washington is currently dominated by CBO projections that are likely horribly wrong. The CBO assumes government health care spending will grow faster than the rest economy forever, and by 2085 nearly 20 percent of the GDP will be spent on Medicare and Medicaid.
Up until recently most of the efficiency gains from computers and mechanization has come from replacing people doing simple repetitive tasks. But with computer processing growing so quickly, that is changing. We could soon see computers causing the same rapid efficiency improvement in medicine we have seen in many other fields. Just because the digital revolution has not dramatically changed medicine yet, doesn’t mean that it won’t eventually.
Basically all of our long term deficit discussions are based on the assumption of continued health care growth. If a few technologies that are already in development live up to their promise, our long term deficit would basically be eliminated. It is possible Washington is currently obsessed with a problem that may not even really exist.
Predicting the future is very hard.





36 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
Hum …
Grazing into the future, as food for thought, who do you imagine, Jon, will “own” these wondrous computer-docs?
Will it, in the scared tradition of American health “care”, be the insurance companies, the hospitals, some amalgam of those two, or some, as yet, undreamed of “provider”?
Also, how will the medical profession react?
Will the AMA act like unions and just happily kiss all those high-paying doctor jobs “good-bye”, or will the AMA resist? Will nurses be relegated to feeding the egos of computers? Who will “oversee” the computers? And who will be sued if the computer is wrong? Will it move beyond the simply diagnostic? Will computers, or robots, move into the operating room? What will happen to the “bedside manner” and, what if the power should go “off” for too long?
Things look to become “interesting”, looking forward …
DW
The computer probably pays attention to what the patient actually says.
And if the computer recommends a double mastectomy will you proceed directly to the surgeon without hesitation?
you mock but things change rapidly. If you had a math problem would you prefer to trust a calculator or trained abacus user.
Good tool for docs but will never replace them. Just as people are not automobiles medical practice is not mechanics.
Also, it is is a lot of hubris to expect machines to be cheaper. History shows us that, as they predicted nuclear power to be too cheap to meter, the consequences so far of introducing machines into medical practice has led to a large segment of costs being due massive payments to corporations holding patents on their machines. — often to obtain information that could more accurately be obtained by a doc well trained in physical diagnosis. Instead they are downgrading the teaching of these skills.
Would you use a calculator to pound a nail?
Computers do some things really well, but not all things.
gimlet is demonstrating that a very important aspect of medical care is having a person who wants the best for you to share the decisions and be there during the time of your suffering.
When I advise friends and acquaintances on best way to choose a primary care physician I say the most important factor is being convinced this person wants you to get well.
Predicting the future isn’t all that hard. I can see for-profit medical centers “tweaking” the computer’s program each quarter, resulting in the appropriate number and type of diseases necessary to achieve profit goals.
Achieving a 50% reduction in medical costs doesn’t require a computer – the US just needs to adopt the health care system Germany has used for decades (better health outcomes are a bonus too).
Or, quit lacing America’s food supply with fructose/poison. Fructose has been linked to metabolic syndrome:
http://www.sciencefriday.com/guests/robert-lustig.html#page/full-width-list/1
http://www.uctv.tv/speakers/Robert-H-Lustig-96308
Dreadfully sorry, but your plan does not include a second computer assessment, the costs, you understand, I’m certain, are just prohibitive and, frankly, there is no record to be found anywhere of this computer having, ever, been wrong …
Come along now, the operating room computer has already been summoned and apprised of your situation … we’ll want you in and out, for your piece of mind, just as quickly as possible …
Others are waiting, mustn’t muck up the system, don’t you know?
Well, the counseling computer is busy right now, and you wouldn’t want to take up some other person’s time, now would you?
Don’t you dare try to climb out of this wheelchair! … or I shall be forced to call security …
Well, it would appear that Com-Doc has prescribed you a sedative, come now, open up … you’ll be up and around in no time.
(And then, the doors of the elevator closed with a hush … the little light winked, and the problem patient was gone …)
Brave new “Homeland” … technology will certainly save us … it must, as we seem quite unable to do so for ourselves … with the “constraints” hoary tradition has placed upon us. It is a good thing our leaders know best, else we might have a wee qualm or two. Healing at a distance, by remote control … what could go wrong?
(The above snark is for entertainment porpoises only, they have been concerned of late, what with the Gulf “spill” and that wee problem at Fukushima, so it is best to let them know that we are all in the very same boat.)
;~DW
does the computer still make you get needless MRIs?
There are things that computers can do very well, but taking the place of a hands-on doctor isn’t one of them – IMO. I really like my doctor but they have changed to a system where everything has to be entered into a computer so instead of looking at me while we’re talking, she is on the computer. It’s the oddest feeling – as if there’s a wall between us. And then I get a letter asking how my visit with the doctor was. Strange. Maybe we could just text and save me a trip.
Doctors are the single largest high net wealth group in the US.
Will they resist the computers? No. The will insist they are driven by “properly licensed professionals”, use the computers to treat more patients in 2 hours that they do in a week, accept more fees, play more golf and invest more money.
Is that with or without batteries?
I also look forward to the computer replacing a judge and jury to save money in our unnecessarily expensive legal system.
The decision was based primarily on family history. The patient was a high school student.
Oh, good. Now I can avoid ever going to Computer Doctors, either. ;o)
Will Computer Docs get kickbacks for recommending certain of BigPharma’s junk? Hope so. Even Computer Docs hafta make a living.
“I can even work out your personality problems to ten decimal places if it’ll help.”
Eddie The Shipboard Computer with GPP by Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
I consider that gimlet was not so much mocking “change”, but questioning the too ready assumption that some things can be fully automated or reduced to simple “numbers”, to statistics, and generalizations based upon such squiggles …
Our society is far too willing to accept all “technology” as “progress”, be it computerized “voting”, the use of assassination drones, or even the unquestioned “expertise” of the nuclear “power” industry …
The results we witness are not glitches necessarily inherent to the “technology” itself, but to the uses (and abuses) that certain individuals or classes may choose to make use of … for their own selfish purposes.
Again, who will “own” such technology? Who will control, update, and oversee it?
Those are NOT questions that mock, they are essential and necessary.
The question posed by gimlet, is equally germane … especially if cost “efficiency” is to be the driver for individuals who will profit directly from the use of those computer-docs … not the patients, but the owners, what George W. Bush might term, “the Deciders” …
DW
Great. Another way to throw people out of work.
‘Analyzing…analyzing….Subject is not worth repair. Detain and process for Soylent Green.’
It doesn’t take much imagination to see this is as the “standardized testing” framework that will be used to evaluate doctors even if the AI darlings don’t replace them. Consider what is going on with teaching.
The appropriate use IMO (from an IT business process perspective) is as just another job aid in addition to any other protocol references, the PDR, and so on.
But I think the seduction of getting rid of high-salary labor costs will be too tempting for the large private, non-profit, university, and relgious medical systems that now dominate America’s health care.
And no, doctors will not be consulted as to how to use them, no more than teachers are for high-stakes standardized testing. The vendors of this technology will drive the discussion.
Unless doctors wake up.
That includes corporate CEO’s? Give us a break!
Why are people so willing to spend billions on killing and technology to replace humans and are so hateful toward the one group of imperfect people who at least aspire to serve others in the most difficult and frightening of times.
It is impossible to pay physicians what they are worth. We just have to settle on what is possible.
I promise you you will get better service from an appreciated well fed and rested physician than a well oiled machine.
There have been a fair number of studies that show a pretty high level of physician misdiagnosis (search on “studies of physician misdiagnosis”), and attempts to create assisted diagnostic systems. This seems to be the latest attempt to create an improved diagnostic system.
I remember reading about this for the first time many years ago (back in the early 80s, IIRC). That article mentioned a number of all too human problems leading to misdiagnosis – doctors not up to date on latest info, distractions, miscommunication with the patient, etc. Even something as simple as a check list has been shown to improve outcomes. This shouldn’t be too surprising – a good check list improves the outcome for a lot of complex situations. (Sometimes, even in the middle of an emergency situation – although that had better be a short list…)
While reading this post, I was initially felt “What? You’re going to replace my doctor!? No way!”
But after thinking about it, perhaps it is just HMO medicine, but I can tell that they really don’t give a crap whether I get better or not. I realize they see a million patients a day and they can’t get personally attached to their patients and they are constantly doing CYA medicine, but over the past 20 or so years, I really have found a drop in the genuine concern by those practitioners I do go and visit.
The last doctor I thought that actually gave a damn was an exceptional guy who had been both a doctor and a lawyer and after the examination, we’d go to his office and he’d sit there and talk with you. The whole visit took at least 30 to 45 minutes. There was no nurse doing all the care in the front end for the 5 second visit by my PCP. The guy actually cared and wanted me to get better.
Those days are long gone. Frankly, I could care less if a computer replaced the doctor in doing the analysis of what is going on and suggesting care. I may have an issue with machines conducting surgery at this point, but as far as primary and preventative cares go, I could care less.. because doctors apparently don’t.
I am afraid you are prescient. Yes the medical profession has been forced to embrace technology, inadequate education and, most important limitations on the human interactions in favor of promised “cost efficiency.”
The sad day is approaching when they will be no more.
How about this?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp/50582822#50582822
Which part of “single largest group” do you not understand?
“Single largest group” means there are more Doctors of High Net wealth (400,000) than CEOs of Major corporations.
This is truly a stupid observation:
Other countries pay physicians a lot less than the US with better outcomes.
The real heroes of health practice in the US are public health officials. The Clean Air, Water, Food Inspection, washing of hands and good Sewage disposal. Without these life expectancy would be around the late 30s, and women would be dieing in childbirth.
Yes, I believe you uninformed, unthinking and biased. Obviously your command of history is very limited. I prescribe…oh wait, there is no cure for stupidity, sorry.
That’s ‘a neat story. I believe you will find physicians have embraced new technology enthusiastically — once we got over a thousand years of Galen.
Oh I see. What you are saying then is there are more doctors than workers in many other job categories. That has no relevance to how much they make on the basis of what a particular job will pay. Do you disagree that the job of corporate CEO pays enormously more than the job of practicing physician?
“The real heroes of health practice in the US are public health officials”
Here’s some heroes:
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/busted_epa_buried_fracking_evidence_at_drilling_companys_behest_20130116/
I wonder what doctors will have to pay for all those good apps.
Well, this sounds like a couple of academic researchers are trying to lock in some serious long term funding, with some pretty outrageous claims.
So maybe they get their funding from 3M and Aetna,their corporate sponsors roll out a new piece of gear, buy off enough congressmen, and lock in future royalties for their shareholders, and force med centers to buy the machines. They have to buy liability insurance for the errors the machine will make. They have to pay a hapless MD to authorize actions that the machine will dictate. They have to market the machine to make patients want to use it. They have to create a huge medical knowledge base that is always changing (the equivalent of a top medical school) and pay large amounts of money to programmers and medical consultants (more doctors) to authorize the input of new data, drug therapies, etc.
And in the end, they figure out that it would have been easier and cheaper just to hire a well-trained MD to do the work. Everyone complains about the money MD’s make, but when you add up all their training required to make good decisions that they are accountable for, they are actually a pretty good bargain.
Sure, foreign MD’s make less money, but they also get their medical training for free.
Better that we automate a few other high paid workers, like bankers, lawyers, senators, stockbrokers, ceo’s,,,,those would be the people who contribute next to nothing for their big paychecks.
I just had my vision restored by one of those fatted “overpaid” physicians. There is no way even Midas could come up with the worth of that man’s work.
I will put my credentials up against any in the field. And as for history, Hell! I have made some of it and lived 3/4 of a century of it.
How do the crafty persuade the credulous to act against their own interests? Create a new history and a new mythology that denies their authentic nature.
Yes. How often is “new technology” presented as bringing massive cuts in cost? How many have increased cost by magnitudes?