Bring it on.

Obama is prepared to anything that inures to the benefit of the 1%, especially if it majorly screws over the 99%. Count on it.

You do have your popcorn don’t you? I have plenty if you need some. :)

If I don’t get my social security check, I don’t eat.

“Obama is Prepared wants to Break Social Security, Defense Authorization and Food Safety Laws Along with Many Others”

i fixed that for ya jon

I’m sorry to hear that, Mary. I know others who will be in the same position. Sadly, I don’t think Obama – or any of the other Very Smart People in Wash DC – care about that. Sad to say…

Envision

I believe most Wells Fargo Advisors Envision financial/investment plans created to earn ‘retention’ bonuses appear to have defrauded the government after Wachovia and Wells Fargo merged while in possession of taxpayer funded TARP and other bailouts. I believe Wells Fargo executive management defrauded the government by creating a illegal path to retain advisers after receiving government bailouts, by mandating a fraudulent path for advisors to acquire retention bonuses. I believe Wells Fargo’s executive management created a backdoor retention program that led thousands of brokers to violate fiduciary duties to the firm’s clients, by incentivizing the omission of investment fees in Envision plans subsequently reported on client statements.

George Hartzman

http://hartzman.blogspot.com/2013/01/envision.html

Write a diary about it. Don’t high jack the thread.

I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate here:

I have often wondered (when the Republicans take the debt ceiling hostage) what would happen if the President actually shut EVERYTHING down?

No Air Traffic Control — no flights. No Social Security checks, Federal/Military paychecks, no tax refunds…

I know people will be hurt. But some of those will be those Tea Party folks who held up pretty signs that said, “Keep your hands of my Social Security benefits” (or Medicare).

I think it might be the only way to drive home the lesson of what the government actually does for the populace. Shutting down the National Parks doesn’t hurt everyone. But shutting down air travel would hit everyone.

In theory, that might work. In reality, many would suffer. Not only would it potentially kill the world economy, it would threaten the health and well being of millions of Americans. It would be very similar to the sanctions on Iran but won’t last as long. I guess it would let Americans know loud and clear what the MOTU are willing to do to control us. This is what is actually going on. My God, I have turned into a conspiracy theorist.

In the end that is why all the so called “shutdown the government” games by politicians are complete cowardice. They never will shut it down even when they shut it down. Even in government shut downs, designated “emergency employees” are still required to go to work…for no pay—until the shut down ends. It’s required. A complete government shutdown will never, ever occur. It didn’t last time in the Gingrich/clinton years….many government personnel still had to go to work.

At this moment the Obama administration is solely focused on raising the stakes for Republicans and not finding other ways around the issue or mechanisms to reduce the danger

The take on this I’ve seen in Beltway-focused publications is that he’s trying to make this so ugly and unpalatable that the Republicans — who have now tried this three times in their history (they tried to do it to FDR and the resulting uproar scared them off of it for over half a century) — will never, ever, try it again.

What is said during negotiations need not be the same as what is finally done. In a game of chicken, the idea is to convince the opponent that not giving in would be a total disaster. Should the Republicans fail to cave, Obama could then choose a less damaging way out. But what you are suggesting is extremely bad tactics: the right is trying to say that default is no big deal.

Meanwhile the Banksters get $ 40 billion a month and no one complains about it.

He’s bluffing and the Republicans know it.

At his press conference yesterday Obama heavily implied that in the event we go over the debt limit he plans to break the Social Security Act, the Defense Authorization Act, laws governing the funding food safety and many more.

never let it be forgotten that he can make all of this go away with one little platinum coin. he is doing this because he wants to.

Another point: during the 1974 showdowns between Congress and Nixon, Congress passed the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, to stamp out Nixon’s claimed power to “impound funds” (effectively asserting a line-item veto power). This bill apparently gives the president the power to impound funds for a limited time: 45 days. So if I’m reading this right, Obama does have the power to suspend payments for a limited time.

Well maybe this time it will actually come to pass before the rethugs Repubs in Congress get the message.

Obama is a polished politician but a poor President.

even if Obama is bluffing, he could back himself into a corner were he does default, that is how WWI started. A series of diplomatic maneuvers that backfired.

… and he can reverse course and issue the platinum coin or use some other trick if he needs to. While it’s possible that he will cave, I get the impression that he’s done with that. He’s no progressive, but he has an ego and no longer has to worry about re-election.

Obama is a rotten president, worse than Bush.

There is no law saying that anything the White House says at this stage applies after a default happens (if it does).

Worst Democrat Ever.

I’d rather Congress just go ahead and raise the debt ceiling. Better yet, end it, as it serves no useful purpose.

But I’ve been through this nonsense almost every year I was a federal employee, and I’ve reached the point that I think short-term pain is necessary for the body politic to resolve not to do it again.

I AM hoping it won’t be necessary.

Ummm you don’t need Obama to give you the reasoning for breaking laws while upholding the debt limit. It’s been all over the place including right here. It is just beyond my understanding that when faced with many options, he would not pick one. If he tried to mint the coin and Ben would not accept it, them have a fight over it. If he uses the 14 th amendment do you really believe the supremes will get involved? Why not use scrip? What is anyone going to do if he just bypasses the debt? It makes me crazy.

I was there for the 1995-96 government shutdown. I’m a retired federal employee. My first year (1978) was the year a Republican named Chalmers E. Wylie (R-OH) decided to take the HHS appropriation bill hostage. I went an entire month without a paycheck.

Every time the government has had a shutdown, the offices I worked for closed completely. I’ve been in the situation of not knowing if I’d be able to pay my bills.

Even worse? Current federal employees may not get paid after a shutdown, Congress can decide not to give them back pay.

If Obama had some balls, he would just say to Congress, I really don’t care what you do, I will just ignore the debt ceiling. And if the Supreme Court gets involved, he should just tell the court, “Okay, come and lock me up”.

But he won’t do that because he wants to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Good luck with that. As long as the Tea Party is around and as long as they are funded by the likes of the Kochs or Adelson, this will go on. Perhaps if you could elect a commanding progressive majority, but even that will take time.

Ben does not have the power to disregard a law, and the law is clear, the Treasury Secretary has the power to mint that coin.

Odds are he’ll give them something they want and they’ll agree to raise the debt ceiling. Temporarily, no doubt, so that the charade can be repeated again in the future.

One way of putting it is that Obama is bluffing, only he’s not really bluffing, because the Republicans know he’s bluffing.

An easier way of putting it is that they are in on the con together.

I really doubt the supremes will get involved and if they did there are two relatively sane justices among the right wing.

At this moment the Obama administration is solely focused on raising the stakes for Republicans and not finding other ways around the issue or mechanisms to reduce the danger.

If you understand our American history, you know that Republicans are questioning the actions of American leaders from 1786 to 1790. That is when largely southern politicians got frustrated with northern politicians who refused to tax to pay debts. The “Continental” was debt printed by Congress to fund government which had become worthless, yet Rhode Island vetoed all taxes that would make good on Congress’s debt.

Rhode Island was actually the first colony to rebel from British rule, and the colony that had reaped the greatest reward from the rebellion and independence.

A “gang of six”, more or less of Congress, got together to find a solution beginning in 1786, a small fix that turned into the Grand Bargain. Rhode Island refused to ratify the Grand Bargain until the new Congress threatened to use its first enumerated power to tax all trade between the foreign nation RI and the United States.

The Republicans today are refudiating that Grand Bargain because they reject the first and second enumerated powers of Congress.

The Grand Bargain, otherwise known as the US Constitution, places all the power to tax and spend and borrow in the hands of the Congress. The President merely executes the Supreme Law of Land, which includes the laws of Congress.

Obama must force Congress to take its responsibility, that it alone has in its first and second enumerated powers, seriously.

Obama will not be the one cutting off Social Security benefits. Obama will not be the one not paying debts. Obama will not be the one causing the economic crisis.

The problem is members of Congress refusing to do what they promised to do when they swore or affirmed they would uphold the US Constitution, which gives them collectively and exclusively the power to tax, spend, and borrow.

The Republicans have take America back to 1786 to the days of Shays Rebellion which was all about Congress not taxing to pay its debts.

Hey, if Obama is going to take power from Congress, he should simply hike taxes, and enforce it by using military force as Commander in Chief. He could declare any one who refused to pay the taxes he levies a terrorist, and terminate them with a drone strike under the 2001 Congressional declaration of unending global war on individuals.

That would be my take but this is being floated that the fed agrees and the implication is they object to it.

The sky is always falling on this site.Your reading way too much into what he said yesterday, since when did he ever match his tough talk with tough action against the GOP? Besides, if the republicans shut down the government and people dont get their ssi checks, including the majority of those who vote for republicans, the republicans will have hell to pay.Obama knows that not paying bond holders is not going to have the same impact as not paying people relying on their ssi and military checks. Trust me, once them good ole boys stop getting them guvment checks they despise they will turn on the congressional republicans right away. If the republicans want to play chicken with the economy this is the time to do it. Sometimes the only thing that brings change is a little pain. If the republicans cause millions to not get their ssi and military checks they will be a minority in 2014.

You are reading too much R v D into this. Prime directive for all in D.C. is to aid the 1% and screw the 99%. Austerity is on the way and the final form of the cuts doesn’t matter as much. Wealth is collecting at the top and cutting spending and hoarding money is bad for any economic system. In the near term the average person ( that’s me too) will suffer.

The threats are broadcast to the widest constituencies. As long as those constituencies blame the GOP who created the crisis instead of the President who had to take drastic action, the GOP backs down quickly. In 1995-1996, it took 28 days to bring Newt Gingrich to his senses.

In 1995-1996, Social Security payments were delayed because Social Security civil service employees were considered non-essential. With no one to process the payments, they could not go out. Likewise, the IRS enforcement suspended operations for the duration.

The alternative approach would be to stop Congressional and staff compensation until the debt ceiling is restored. After all, the logic is to halt non-essential payments.

The big cost is going to come in orderly shutdowns and securing of all the data centers that support “non=essential” functions.

I would suffer but I think he should shut down everything and require that the debt limit vote be permanently eliminated. Most teabaggers get some kind of government support. It is time to make everyone understand what “limited government” really means.

I’m an “emergency employee” with the federal government. I went to work in 95-96 for no pay, until I received the back pay. If the government shuts down this year, I go to work. I’m not at work right now but I’ll be there tonight and I’ll be there if the goverment shuts down. My point was there will never, ever be a complete government shut down. They are cowards who know what would happen if they ever did a “complete” shutdown.

Well old people are sort of non essential too. He can also cut off Medicare as a kind of death panel. Sarah will like that./s

I am sure Obama will not allow our deserving senior citizens to miss a SS check.

OTOH, some people say I am delusional. I don’t think so. I was discussing this very subject with Benjamin Franklin and FDR just this past weekend.

X2

Wherupon, bluffing is usually ineffective.

“If” is right.

You’re saying, “A significantly low tide strands ALL boats.”????

“Social Security checks, …. will be delayed…”

How is it that we are repeatedly told that SS is fully funded for at least 25 years but we are going to run out of money to pay for in a month or two?

Excellent point as always.

I’d hate for Yogi and Boo-boo to miss a meal over this silly debate.

I’ll restate it for the semantically pure: :)

He’s lying and the Republicans know it.

I think what they mean is that the people who print the checks will be temporarily laid off. I could be wrong.

Much better!!!

Whatever happens we the 99% will come out of this as losers.

Ah yes, Chalmers Wylie. He came from a long line of Ohio Republican assholes that is still playing out.

You haven’t turned into a conspiracy theorist, you have simply thrown off the cloak of belief for the openess of seeing reality.

Hate to break our string of home losses. Pretty sure Obama and congress have that well under control.

If I can’t live within the confines of the law or the Constitution? I’ll just consider them suggestions, reject them and live outside the confines of the law or the Constitution.

He better do it before Inauguration day though. Could be embarrassing.

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Yo know what they say, “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean somebody isn’t out to get you.”

Also, “A little paranoia is a good thing.”

How about……

“I do solemnly swear, for the most part, that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

It’s not that Social Security runs out of money. It’s the civil service employees who process the checks, the HHS facilities and the data centers that get the shutdown. The Trust Fund doesn’t magically send out checks without human agency. Same for veterans benefits and Food Stamp and unemployment insurance payments to the states.

It seems pretty silly for Obama to be talking about cutting Social Security when Social Security is totally exempt from automatic spending cuts, aka sequestration. All Obama has do to get the Republicans on board to lifting the debt limit is to approve of the sequestration cuts, which largely involves making single-digit, across-the-board spending cuts to Medicare and the Defense Department. Unless these cuts aren’t enough to please Republicans, which I don’t think is the case, Obama has no good reason to propose spending cuts to Social Security.

I think what you say about SS and its Trust Fund are technically true, but remember, Congress has borrowed all that money and spent it on other things. We pay back that money (I believe) on a daily basis from General Revenue, which is what’s going to be out of money.

If those transfers can’t be made, checks can’t go out (in addition to the people thing).

See my #60.

Utterly shocking. Obama would never think about touching Social Security! Oh wait.

True, true.

No one around to process and print the checks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/15/AR2009011504114.html

Obama Pledges Entitlement Reform
President-Elect Says He’ll Reshape Social Security, Medicare Programs
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 16, 2009

President-elect Barack Obama pledged yesterday to shape a new Social Security and Medicare “bargain” with the American people, saying that the nation’s long-term economic recovery cannot be attained unless the government finally gets control over its most costly entitlement programs.

Imagine that. Can’t get control of cost of entitlements. But we can fight the wars?

Now, alant1x, you are beginning to get me really worried.

That means that there would be no money to pay the Secret Service, right? And that means that the Prez and all the ex-Prezes will not have protection.

Horrors!!

And that means that Congress will not get paid!

Oh, the humanity!!!!

And that means the Supreme Court will not get paid, or any of the Judicial Branch?

Oh, the suffering!

And that means that no money will be paid if any of those people, our leaders, get sick or have to go to hospital?

Egad!

And, all too soon, it will slop over into the “private sector” … bankers will not get their huge, Big Bonuses … ‘cuz bailout funds will dry up?

Oh, noes!

And the big defense corporations, like Lockheed, which do so much of the government data-base “work”, will not be paid?

Calamity, catastrophe, harm beyond belief!!!

The mind is stunned, the conscience overwhelmed!!! It is too much.

Let the many suffer, for that is their just due, but the special few? Oh lord! Not that, heaven forfend!

Please, reveal no more, ghost of horrors-yet-to-come, for such suffering as you lay out before me, this day, are more than mine feeble heart may abide.

Please, oh please, let the pain be contained, let the old, the halt, the lame, and the infirm, bear the brunt of the austerity.

Let not a hair on the heads of our natural nobility suffer unjustly … let not the innocent suffer for the sins of the wicked and spendthrift masses, oh we beseech thee, ghost of horrors-yet-to-come, we ask that the unseen hand not smite our most beloved wise ones, our golden upright ones … let justice prevail, let reason shine forth, let honest conscience rule … that those on top feel not a wince of pain nor doubt.

Let not our sacred motto, “In Gold We Trust” be sullied … “Annuit coeptis …novus ordo seclorum” !!! Let the sacred script prevail … let all that matter$ reign $upreme.

I can’t go on …

Oh dreadful images, oh woe, oh, spare the righteous ones, our masters, please dissipate, be gone!!!

On the other hand …

Give us the death of a thousand cuts. Let Obama’s vision prevail.

Let’s look at the real picture.

Turn off the sound, watch, and ask yourself, “Can these people be trusted to honestly serve the Constitution and the genuine needs and interests of the people? Do they care about humanity and democracy?”

Then … we should all compare notes …

Welcome to the new world order … same as the old one?

Or “new” and “improved”?

DW

The ICA of 74 sets forth a process by which POTUS can impound funds, however, the Impoundment Act was not drafted with the current situation of Congress refusing to raise the debt limit in mind. It is arguable that if Congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling and constrains POTUS ability to make payments to funds as they come in to Treasury would be an impoundment coveres by the Act.

That would be correct, except there’s inflow money as well as outflow on a daily basis. So priorities could be made. Obama just listed the “scariest” ones for effect.

For example daily inflow projections are:
$9B on Feb 15,
$15B on Feb 19,
$16B on Feb 20,
$9B on Feb 21,
$9B on Feb 22,
$15B on Feb 25,
$5B on Feb 26,
$9B on Feb 27,
$9B on Feb 28,
$20B on Mar 1.
Etc.

http://bipartisanpolicy.org/library/staff-paper/debt-limit

Now that is Hyperbole well done!

bingo

“entitlement programs” that we are ENTITLED to BECAUSE WE PAID FOR THEM, they are NOT a gift, they ARE OURS

Of course he’s going to stiff working people on their earned benefits.

The overall problem is that we get sacrificed to the god of “economic growth” by merchant worshippers. That’s the belief system of the West.