Only slightly OT: My favorite “play chicken” video http://youtu.be/JQOUHbw9SIU

I’m usually so critical of the Administration, I’m almost excited for this game ‘o chicken.

It’s not the President’s job to rectify conflicting Congressional statutes. I oppose a unitary executive and an imperial presidency and the other trending problems of the past three presidential terms.

And at anyrate, there isn’t a single GOP (or Dem) leader in DC that has the guts to tell defense contractors and banks and prison companies and agribusiness and every other corporate welfare discretionary-dependent leech there’s no money to pay them. Congress has always raised the debt ceiling.

Always.

Vain, foppish, and deluded.

If we were planning on using the money to help people I could really get into this debate. Just kabuki theatre for the chattering class otherwise. If we don’t raise the debt ceiling will we have a drone shortage? If so I’m on that side.

In a nutshell you nailed it.

My god, Obama won’t play god or be a dictator, but is demanding Congress pay the bills that Congress ran up.

The line I would have had Obama use is

Republicans seem to want to take America back to 1786 when Congress would not pay the debts it had run up. Then, part of Continental Congress got together and drafted the US Constitution which gives Congress the power to tax to pay debt and the bills from spending Congress calls for, and second, the power to borrow on the good credit of the nation. I am saying that Congress must use the first and second powers that only Congress has to resolve the conflict in the laws of the land that tie my hands and prevent payment of all debts Congress created.

Good looking chicken. I bet he’s got waaay more pluck than O, though.

Thanks, you too! I wonder what a drone shortage would like, anyway?

Sir, we need 100 new drones next year.

Great, ask for 200. Then tell the media we’re sacrificing by only getting 150.

The Congress in 2001 declared endless global war on individuals, and in war you kill the enemy. Drones are the cheapest way to execute that endless global war on individuals the We the People have voted in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012 to continue and expand. We do not have a dictatorship, but a democracy and We the People have decided that the Commander in Chief must kill individuals in our endless global war on individuals.

The Republicans are just as oblivious of the democracy of We the People who reject cutting entitlements, so their demands that Obama be dictator and cut entitlements at the demands of Republicans is just as absurd as your demand that the President ignore the endless global war on individual We the People have clearly wanted to be carried out by the Commander in Chief.

If Obama has left the 14th amendment and/or the platinum coin on the table prior to negotiations, the House would have less recourse in their negotiations. That’s not what Obama wants. He wants to negotiate for cuts to entitlement programs. He wants to offer entitlement cuts as a compromise position. That way, he gets to fight the good fight and still get what he’s wanted from the beginning – entitlement cuts.

The administration wants everyone to think they mean it.

What on earth makes them believe that they have any. credibility. whatsoever?

The day of truth for Congressman Grayson is approaching. Surely he will be sitting when the vote on chained SS and medicare cuts comes to the floor? What will he do? After all his loud words here. Loud words, with no explicit commitment to actually vote against such legislation. He’ll oppose it until he’s blue in the face. But the vote? That’s a different matter. Oh, to see the progressive mouse-pig that is Rep Grayson scurrying into the “Yes” lobby, with his long, pink tail behind him.

I think Obama took lessons in negotiating policy from the Progressive Caucus.

It’s not a Congress person who actually signs those checks. Somehow, I think that’s where a flaw in the supposed thinking lies.

But then, when I was half-listening I thought I heard Mr. Obama mashing up the Battle of the Sexes game with the Chicken game.

Less accurate.

“Obama doesn’t want to get around the debt ceiling, he wants to beat the Republicans on it.”

More accurate.

Obama wants to appear to be forced to accept social Security cuts, when in fact those cuts were his goal all along.

The higher the stakes, the more Obama can cave.

In the end, Obama will declare it just to damaging to default and be “forced” to give the Republicans all they want.

demanding Congress pay the bills that Congress ran up

All this does is link the debt ceiling to the defecit. It gives Republicans every right to say, “In that case, let’s reduce the bills now so we won’t be required to go through this again.”

that’s it. i’m never reading this blog again.

why, Jane? why? my eyes are bleeding and the top of my haid blew off. you are a cruel, cruel woman. ;-)

Jon, you say

Realizing this, the bulk of Democratic Congressional leadership has endorsed Obama using a form of unilateral action to address this issue.

I read the article, and I admit that maybe I missed it, but how do you get from Some to The Bulk?
Show me and I’ll apologize for being stupid. But, if you have to exaggerate to make a point, I’m always a little suspicious about the intent of an article.
Sincerely.

Great idea on Obeanhead’s part. We all know he’ll NEVER blink.

I’m used to the use of hyperbole on the many myfdldiaries a’hatin’ everything, but, if this is the new front page strategy, I’ll have to rethink my contributions here.

Playing chicken? Obama will blink so hard, he’ll shit a basketball-sized egg, and give the TGOPers everything they want. Especially Earned Benefit cuts, which is his real goal.

And in today’s version of the ongoing Kabuki Show we haaaveee…. Obama pretending to “stand up” to so-called “Republicans.”

Anyone wanna bet on Obama NOT caving? My money’s on the Obama cave.

Simply mooting out the enemy isn’t fashionable nowadays. Sometimes the battle, itself, is more useful than the solution.

Maybe O has figured that concept applies now. Hence, no platinum coin trick or 14th Amd’t use.

I think that’s also why Reid didn’t use the Senate’s nuke option on the first day to eliminate filibuster. It would be too easy, and geld the spectacle of obstruction. Instead, it’s about more pressing long term leverage, polls, the next election, no?

Next on the platter will be some welcome EOs to continue the process.

It’s plausible for Dems to savor battle rather than brute force, since the GOP will lose in the end. That’s regardless of the issue, and their base will get smaller, angrier, as they seem out of control and the Dems end up having to fix stuff.

It’s a tricky strategy, though, but the Dems surely have the upper hand now.

Please provide an example of hyperbole in the above post.

You can’t call getting what you actually want “caving”.

Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration. Saying The Bulk when it’s some seems to be that. Did you read my comment? I asked to be shown where the referenced article implied a plural, a bulk.

I’ve tried to edit “exaggerating” to “exaggeration” 5 times, but it won’t take. Sorry. Trying to be grammatically correct.

Yes, there is no hyperbole in a statement that Democrats basically do as they are told.

Now, you’ve got me baffled too.
I’ll step back from this conversation, since it seems people just want to Baaaaaaaaaa.

“Republicans in Congress have two choices here,” Obama said. “They can act responsibly and pay America’s bills or they can act irresponsibly and put America through another economic crisis.”

Actually, they can act responsibly and pay America’s bills AND cut spending so that Obama won’t have to ask them to raise the debt ceiling again.

As long as they start with the DOD.

The weird thing about this is that when the right-wingers talk about a government shutdown, they seem to believe that Obama has powers that he doesn’t have, that is, that he can legally stop that horrible government spending if they refuse to raise the debt ceiling and the budget will be magically balanced with one stroke.

They think (based on a couple of email forwards that I’ve seen) that he can refuse to pay any government workers or welfare checks or Chinese bondholders but keep the social security checks coming.

What reporters should be asking Republicans is what they expect will happen if Congress refuses to pass a debt ceiling increase (either by not acting, or if the House passes a ridiculous cut-everything bill that the Senate won’t pass). What do they think happens next?

Yep it’s another they made me do it time

No, they can’t. Cutting spending requires the consent of the Senate and the President. It’s not something that the House can do unilaterally. Besides, they aren’t interested in “cutting spending”, the Pentagon’s budget is bloated and they won’t touch that. It’s solely “cutting spending liberals like”. That’s hostage-taking. Nice economy you’ve got there, shame if something should happen to it.

Gotta work on that connection to reality there.

They don’t give a Fat Rat’s Ass what happens. They are out of their rational minds. How many times do they have to demonstrate that fact before it sinks into the public consciousness?

They are living in a political fantasy land where logic, reason, and facts do not apply. They are acting out a deluded ideology. For them, it’s a political religion.

Who said anything about the House doing anything unilaterally?

Obama says “act responsibly and pay America’s bills”, and Congress says “ok, and at the same time we (Congress and Pres) can agree to reduce spending since this whole debt ceiling thing is a result of deficit spending.”

The GOP should “finish this debate,” Obama argued, by acting quickly to raise the limit with no strings attached; doing otherwise would be “irresponsible” and “absurd.” Once that is done, he would “be happy to have a conversation” about how to further reduce the deficit “in a balanced way.”

So Obama would rather hold America hostage over known spending cuts in a debt ceiling bill, but would be willing to have a conversation about unspecified cuts later, if Congress would just increase the debt ceiling on trust.

Here’s my “wishful thinking” Moment.

Obama knows that the demographic trends means that the conservatives are on their way out the door. And given that Obama is a now a Constitutional Scholar due to his four-year history, Obama is waiting for the Conservatives in the House for their failing to pass a debt ceiling agreement, he can then call for an Articles of Impeachment Trial for those who voted “nay” to a debt ceiling agreement, and thusly, “high crimes and misdemeanors” becomes his premise. Of course, should the House Speaker apply the Hastert Rule and refuse to bring the Debt Ceiling Agreement to the Floor, Obama loses another “opportunity” to prove that the Consitution overrides the Conservatives.

Jaango

So, Obama is calling their bluff. But, he has all of his options still available. All that he has said is that he prefers not to use them.

There is not ONE DIME of deficit spending occurring that hasn’t already passed BOTH Houses of Congress. Every penny “Obama” spends has already been approved and appropriated by the Congress.

The House Republicans want a “do-over” when the President is merely stating he’s simply paying the bills they ALREADY APPROVED. If they didn’t want those bills paid, they could’ve passed different appropration bills.

No President should negotiate over such a “ceiling” when the House and Senate are the ones that pass ALL the appropriations anyway. And once something becomes passed, and becomes law and an obligation of the US Government, the 14th amendment says it’s unconstitutional not to pass it. Apparently Obama doesn’t want to go that far but is willing to rightly call out the House for wanting to change something they’ve ALREADY PASSED.

Bingo !

No matter what the administration actually intends to do if the House lets the ceiling be reached and breached, they have to claim that they will absolutely, categorically, let breach cause default. They have to take this public stand because if the Rs are convinced that the administration will do anything to prevent a crash resulting from their letting the ceiling be breached, that takes all pressure off them to raise the ceiling.

Boehner doesn’t want to pressure his crazies to vote a rise in the ceiling. He also doesn’t want to cut his crazies off, and let a clean raise come to a vote in which it passes with universal D support and only minority R support. In fact, even his moderates, fearing being primaried if they vote for a raise, will only vote yes in the barest minimum numbers necessary for it to pass. It would make his life so much easier were Obama to take that cup from his lips by undertaking ahead of time to do anything at all to raise the ceiling. And it would be the gift that would keep on giving to the Rs. They would leave the ceiling in permanent breach in order to campaign on the lawlessness of whatever actually or fictitiously lawless method the president uses to not go ahead with default.

It’s also true that whatever the administration says beforehand it will do in the event of a breach, what it will actually do is ignore the ceiling. Treasury can’t observe the breach because that would force it to prioritize spending, and it hasn’t been delegated the authority to appropriate, which is what you need to decide who the US pays and who it doesn’t. Treasury can only follow instructions from Congress in paying out money. It can’t pay money unless the law tells it to, and it can’t fail to pay money the law says it must. Should it deviate from its instructions, and start making up its own spending priorities, it would instantly be sued 7,000 ways from Sunday. But no party with any standing can sue it for going on borrowing up to the actual debt limit, however much has to be borrowed to meet all legal spending obligations.

Reid, Durbin, Schumer, and Murray are the highest ranking D’s in the Senate. That seems to be the “bulk” of the leadership, as far as the Senate. It’s also their job to know whether or not they have the support of the rest of the caucus, or expect to be able to exert pressure to get that support on a particular issue

President Obama really wants everyone to know the only game he intends to play over the debt ceiling is chicken.

This will not end well.

Exactly!

We keep talking to each other as-if therer was some hope that the crazy bastards weren’t going to drive the bus off the cliff, yes they are going to drive the bus off the cliff because they believe their ideology makes them immune to gravity or something.

After the big crash, if there are any survivors, then we can start arguing again, but for now we’re in the hands of religious zelots and they have only one way.

“But they wouldn’t really …”

Yes they would!

Amazing how the Republicans are willing to destroy the world as we know it while Obama seems intent on saving it. Amazing how we once again witness this good guy bad guy charade play itself out.

Somewhere I smell Obama’s real masters stepping into protect their “investments”. Somehow I’m expecting to hear how we have to “protect” Social Security and Medicare by making “modest adjustments”.

Funny how the American people are on the short end of this stick, and the very same people that crashed the world economy and were bailout with our money come out smelling like roses.

YUP, he’s said any number of times he wants to take from us the things we’ve invested all our lives, the things our parents and grandparents invested

If the GOP don’t cave, Obama will wind up with four options:
* Cave, which his history indicates is most likely.
* Stop paying the bills, which violates the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974.
* Borrow to pay the bills, which violates the debt-limit law 31USC3101(b), which he agreed to and signed into law.
* Invoke 31uSC5112(k) and coin at last $20 billion per week to pay the bills.

What a joke! As we have seen so many times, too many times – when the republicans push, Barack “Roll Over” Obama will fold; there are times when he has folded even before the PUSH!!! I do wish we had a progressive with spine in the White House instead of milque toast obama.

Let’s get something straight – Obama WANTS to cut Social Security. It isn’t wining if the other side caves in and gives him what THEY want too.

I agree with everything you’ve posted. But that doesn’t mean what’s ALREADY PASSED and ALREADY APPROVED can’t be changed, capitalization not withstanding.

that’s called default, this money was already spent, the republicans want to go buy a TEEvee on credit and then say “nah, I’m not paying you”

and in fact, you are suggesting doing exactly the opposite for what this country needs, this country needs MORE spending not less, the government spending less is the very thing that causes depression and the ONLY time you do that is if your economy is robust