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so called cliff
There is no “cliff” in the fiscal cliff because tomorrow, on a practical level, relatively little will change for many people if there is no deal. Even if tax rates technically go up on everyone, it is unlikely most people will change their actual tax withholding since they know a retroactive fix will come eventually. The most important thing that happens at midnight is that the baseline changes.
Today taxes are low but by tomorrow the Bush taxes cuts will have expired for everyone. Any deal reached today that only extends most of the Bush taxes cuts can be theoretically framed as a tax increase, since Congress would be voting for a tax rate higher than currently exists. By tomorrow, though, this entire issue goes away.
Starting tomorrow the only question will be how much to cut taxes relative to the new baseline. The question will no longer be “how many of the Bush tax cuts should be extended?” but “how large should the Obama tax cut be?”
While this is a seemingly stupid technicality, politics often turns on technicalities. Once we start using the new baseline it should be easier to get Republicans to vote for a deal, because no one can claim they are voting for a tax increase. Any Republicans still holding out will find it difficult to defend the position of opposing one of the largest tax cuts in American history simply because it doesn’t cut taxes enough for the super rich.
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I don’t think that’s stupid at all, it’s the way to get what you want using their terms, “they want tax cuts” so “lets give them tax cuts”
and it should never be called ‘raising taxes” by the administration, it should instead be called “allowing bush’s tax cuts to run their course and then providing new tax cuts”
much better, not stupid at all
Over at Po de Huff they are saying that Obama has caved once again and the tax cuts will be above $450,000. Here is what Tom Harkin has to say about it.
We all know we are being played. I think Obama is the most dishonest, smarmy/charming “president” we have ever had. Makes me sick.
Repeated headlines about fiscal cliff and there is no fiscal cliff?
Naughty, naughty.
What’s interesting is how Ezra Klein — who is usually considered so ideologically reliable by the White House that he’s a chief transmitter of Administration talking points — is framing this as “Obama’s giving away the store because he doesn’t know how to negotiate”:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/31/why-some-republicans-think-theyre-winning-the-fiscal-cliff/?wprss=rss_economy&tid=pp_widget
But . . . but . . . but . . . Sen. Rand Paul, on the floor of the Senate, just concluded a speech that assured us that HE will not vote for a tax hike on those job-creating, special people called “the rich.” The Rich, don’t you know, pay ALL the taxes, create all the jobs, and never benefit from entitlements! Raising taxes on them will have grave effects; they’ll buy their yachts in the Bahamas, throwing out of work U.S. yacht-makers. They won’t create jobs, boo-hoo-hoo. I can’t believe people in Kentucky are so wealthy that they endorse their senator and believe that he represents them. (Then, of course, I live in Florida, so I have so-o-o-o much to brag about /s)
Well, that is true. You know he will cave. He’s already sent in his chief cave in negotiator, Joe Biden. Neither of them can see the straiqht flush they have. Kool-Aid, pass it here please. Take a little popcorn too.
Hmm,now there’s an idea. I don’t benefit from their bank bailouts or the wars they like to fight. So please cancel my share of the taxes for that shit.
I see Kos is framing this 450k as Biden giving them one more chance. Wonder what the sweetner will be and the after dinner drink.
I love that you craszy kids are still pretending Obama wants the rich to pay higher tax rates. It’s charming. I guarantee you that by the time he leaves office they will be lower than they are now. GUARANTEED. It’s REFORM!
Obama will cave. Do you want that turd sandwich regular or a foot long?
Just close up shop now boys. We know this is all a scam with up to the last minute negotiating to look sensible to the American public who fear going over that terrible, terrible cliff.
Just go home, pop the corks, sit back and relax and let the new Congress come in and take care of things, maybe with a new Speaker although I really doubt it since this game will just be a renewal next year.
This moving the threshold from $250,000 as promised to $450,000 was in the plan all along, but now most of us really cannot believe anything you say or do, Republican or Democrat.
They know exactly what they are doing.
One of the biggies for me is the estate tax. I care as much about that as the current income tax rates.
Obama’s gonna talk at 1:30. Is this the deal, is it, is it?
These technicalities only matter in the minds of Democrats. Republicans will have the same objectives tomorrow as they do today and have had since 1980: to destroy the US government, to loot the economy for their own enrichment, and to impoverish and enslave all non-billionaire Americans. It is a serious mistake to regard the GOP as a political party when they are in fact a criminal gang. 0bama and the Dems in Congress refuse to acknowledge this, however, and are very eager to give away all of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, food stamps, school lunches, etc., in the hope of getting a cut of the loot from their corporate bosses. There is no way to oppose the fascist Republican takeover when the Vichy Democrats are so completely committed to helping them obliterate the last vestiges of government of, by, and for the People.
Harkin saying ” this looks like a very bad deal.” See Huff Po.
Apparently. Ezra Klein is tweeting the (alleged) details of the deal.
Well, this part sucks (if this is really part of the “deal”):
Heere’s Ezra’s “inside info” post.
I thought teaparty crazies heralded the demise of the GOP. I believe continually acting against the will of the people and kowtowing to the elites/corporations by (most) of the Democrats sets this party along the same self-destructive path. Doesn’t take a Republican to destroy the Democratic party, does it?
And you cut the Dems some slack because . . . .why? They refuse to acknowledge? They’re merely guilty of refusal? I think they deserve more (dis)credit than that.
The ten million is far too high and the rate should be at least 45. % IMO.
Taxes will increase every year for every one, that’s the only true.