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If President Obama behavior on the issue of Social Security and his willingness to offer up cuts to Social Security as part of a deficit deal left any doubt about his personal intentions for the program, last night’s debate should put those doubts to bed. One of the most telling moments regarding what Obama’s second term would be like was his answer to the question on entitlements. From CNN debate transcript:
21:39:56: LEHRER: All right? All right. This is segment three, the economy. Entitlements. First — first answer goes to you, two minutes, Mr. President. Do you see a major difference between the two of you on Social Security?
21:40:15: OBAMA: You know, I suspect that, on Social Security, we’ve got a somewhat similar position. Social Security is structurally sound. It’s going to have to be tweaked the way it was by Ronald Reagan and Speaker — Democratic Speaker Tip O’Neill. But it is — the basic structure is sound.
This could have been a moment for Obama to try a sharp contrast with Romney and make a powerful appeal to swing voters. Obama could have made a simple and popular promise to protect the program from cuts. He could have said something like, “I consider Social Security benefits to already be incredibly modest. I promise to protect them as they are for all current future Americans. A small increase in revenue will be enough to make the trust fund stable for another 75 years.”
The president didn’t do this. Obama actively choose to pass up this chance to score political points in the middle of a contested election. Instead, Obama decided to use a vague term like “tweaked” to give himself maximum flexibility in the future. The reason a candidate does this is because they want to do something and they don’t want campaign statements getting in the way.
If Obama wasn’t planning to cut Social Security as part of “tweaking” it in a grand bargain, last night he would have promised not to do so.
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Of course, to anyone paying even the tiniest glimmer of attention, this is NOT news. It’s been evident all along that this is Obama’s MAIN GOAL.
As they say: wake up sheeples….
We are fucked no matter who “wins” this bizarro world horse race. Good luck to us all in the 99%.
Yes, that was the most interesting thing Obama said. He had the chance to position himself as the defender of Social Security and instead he chose to make himself an equal with Mitt Romney! Mitt Romney!
I just received my annual Social Security statement with projected pay outs and I have to say, given what I and my employers have paid in, it was paltry–even if I worked fulltime to the age of 70. But I guess it is too much. Need to cut those payments so we can pay for wars, tax cuts for the 1% and bail outs of Obama’s buddies on Wall Street. That’s the responsible thing to do.
Somebody posted this on my facebook page during the first quarter of the debate..
“Based on the debate so far i’d say Obama is planning to vote for Romney.”
been documented before
I have no problem he lost the debate last night, I would the enemy was not dressed in my uniform
Obama is a fraud has been from day 1. He’s Midwestern Republican white guy Harvard Corp. lawyer and Corp. shill hiding inside the perfect disguise a black man. He was raised by a banker. He’s the perfect Manchurian candidate and last night made that clear. If re-elected he intends to put it to the 99%.
Maybe his
gangsterbankster buddies are making Zero vote for RMoney?? Nothing would surprise me at this point.Still Obomba’s done nothing but talk about cutting Soc Sec & Medicare since he came into office. Most citizens have simply Not. Paid. Attention.
IF this finally WAKES UP a few citizens to what Zero is all about, then, hey! IMO, maybe Zero actually “won” the debate… just saying…
I couldn’t watch. I was afraid I’d throw something at my TV. But I did tune in for the post debate analysis. Glad I didn’t watch. “Bad Day at Black Rock” for Obama everybody seems to say.The lowlights I did see remind me of a deer in the headlights.
Except for SCOTUS appointments.
Hope you don’t mind my edit. IMO, this is NOT. NEW.
Sorry. Not sold on that, either. If you think Zero’s gonna appoint “liberal” or reasonable Jugdges, guess again.
Obama is a fraud has been from day 1. He’s Midwestern Republican white guy Harvard Corp. lawyer and Corp. shill hiding inside the perfect disguise a black man.
I supposse he’s had those makeup artists from Mission Impossible do him. Gotta admit, damn fine job. Apparently he’s even fooled Michelle.
I saw about 30 seconds before I could change the channel. I have no clue what RMoney or DMoney said at that point.
RMoney looked all smugly snobby & on a roll… well sociopathic narcissists tend to look that way, esp if they’re used to kicking “those people” to the curb.
DMoney looked tired, puny & utterly disinteresed.
Let’s face it: If Obama is throwing in the towel, it’s because he’s been given his marching orders by the PTB, who perhaps have changed their minds about Zero and prefer the really super-duper white guy, instead. I dunno. But Zero’s a “made man” for life, so for him, it’s all: What? Me Worry?? Just like W… in all ways…
obummer is a wolf in sheep’s clothing bought and paid for by banks and corporations. Its funny how money can make a person forget his roots and his base. At least he didn’t do that red state blue state united states… blah blah blah.
Well, he is half white. I think that’s what the other commenter was getting at. IN this nation, however, in theory if you have a drop of AA blood in your veins, then you are black. But… it could be argued the other way around. Just saying…
Hate to break it to you, but Obama’s “base” was ONLY ever the 1%, esp the banks and Wall St. The 99% simply do not exist for this fraud. That’s where a LOT of voters got, uh, confused. Obama not only hates the hippy left, he HATES, loathes and disdains the 99%, in toto. The end.
If he is permitted to implement Simpson-Bowles, my kids will get SS retirement benefits slightly above the current line for poverty, somewhere between 10 and 15K per year in Social Security. The S-B plan makes cuts in three significant places in SS: raises age of eligibility two years to 69, changes the CPI to a reduce chained CPI which places a regressive pull on inflation based benefit increases, and lastly, B-S plan hollows out benefits for the middle and upper middle income earners, all benefits are reduced to between 9-15K. See Figure 2 HERE.
I was working my first job when Reagan “tweeked” Social Security. That tweek doubled the payroll tax, and raised my retirement age from 65 to 67.
More disturbing, is the President’s continued support for Bowles-Simpson, when that plan would essentially convert the program from social insurance to welfare. You can read more about that here (pdf):
Bowles-Simpson would end Social Security As We Know It
Sonia and Elena are working out soooooo well.
Bowles-Simpson CatFood Commission rapine & pillaging of YOUR money in Soc Sec is pretty much a foregone conclusion no matter which empty suit “wins” this “election.”
Wave buh-bye to your hard-earned money, honey, cuz YOU ain’t gettin’ it. It be going to the 1%. Have a nice day!
When Obama says his position is likely similar to Romney’s position on Social Security, that should be very alarming to liberals. Romney likely supports most or part of the Ryan Budget. The Ryan Budget fast tracks Social Security cuts.
From this statement last night, one should not be asking if he will tweak it or not but rather, how much will he tweak it? What is he going to support, especially if it comes to him in the form of a compromise?
They screwed us in 1983 and Obama had only praise for that last night.
19% cut in 1983. Not on my watch, pal. Never again.
From:
The Kids of 1983.
There are parts of Bowles-Simpson that are very similar to parts of the Ryan Budget. Social Security is doomed. Medicare, too.
I agree with you but until there is a better 3rd party then the t-baggers I think were pretty much f’d. Until somehing breaks up the D and R party nothing will improve or change.
I think that seaglass was making a figurative point, not a literal one.
I found the 19% cut in 1983 posted in this article.
For a twenty something, new cuts would be on top of the cuts from 1983, figure 19% plus another 19% now and our youth are taking a 38% cut since 1983. I say, NO WAY.
The two-party theater is a ruse. It’s us (the riff raff) and them (the politicians, lobbyists, and wealthy Super PAC donors that are the real owners of the country). The only way we win is if we revolt.
The laborers (us) and the Capitalists (them).
Marx was spot on 150 years ago.
There are better 3rd parties. Ever heard of Jill Stein and the Green Party? Rockey Anderson and the Justice Party? Even Gary Johnson running as a libertarian?
The only thing keeping the D’s and R’s in power is the people that vote for them because “there are no alternatives.” And the reason that “there are no alternatives” is because the people won’t vote for them. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy.
The only glimmer of hope in Obama’s abysmal performance and his “tell” may be it’s the beginning of the end of the “3rd Way.”
That’s one reason why I’m voting for the Greens, Jill Stein.
You don’t have to– and shouldn’t– wait and look for someone else to make this happen. You are part of that. It takes people being willing to vote for 3rd party candidates who actually represent their values. Until people are willing to do this, the D and R parties will not magically break up on their own.
I’m voting 3rd party and, yes, I know my candidate isn’t going to win. But it sends the message of what I want. And it will be great to vote *for* someone this time.
I went out for dinner last night after an intense day for a client. The first place I went had the debate on 3 large screens.
I left.
Right!
He decided early that his only hope for political success was in the Democratic Party. Philosophically he is a moderate Republican. In that he is the ideal Manchurian candidate.
Thank You, voting Greem myself.
I saw something the other day on facebook that said ‘Voting for the lesser of two evils is how we got here’.
Jill Stein was certified on the ballot here in Texas. I personally liked Rocky’s policies a bit more, but he was not certified. I will be voting for Jill. After a lot of research, my wife settled on Jill as well.
yes I’ve heard of them and after 25 years as a democrat obama convinced me that I need to leave that party and go independent. That being said, those other parties seem to be happy with just getting a name on the ticket. Those parties have been around for decades and they don’t get any play in mainstream media. Unfortunately it seems like unless your batshit crazy or a good corporate liar the media wont even mention you, but they need to find a way to reach more people and do a better job of getting their message out as well as forcing their way into these debates.
Social Security and medicare is NOT an Entitlement
It is a DEBT the US government owes me
I paid my money in every week
With the agreement I would receive
Retirement payments at a certain age
And a set amount
Any cut to the payments
Is a breach of contract
A crime.
Why can’t people get off of saying
Obama should have said this or that
If he cared about American citizens?
He don’t and will steal our social security
Vote
Rose Ann Bar, Rockey Anderson, green party
Elect a progressive
I really hate that Obama would rather lose the election than protect Social Security. What a fucking joke.
Yes, seriously. After what appears to have happened in last night’s debate, which leaves it crystal clear that Obama INTENDS TO CUT Soc Sec, I can no longer see ANY argument for voting for this fraudster from a fraudulent so-called “Democratic” party.
THERE. ARE. OTHER. OPTIONS.
Call me stupid, if you must, but if citizens continue to roll over and continue to endorse, enable, be co-dependent with and vote soley & only for one of the so-called “two” parties – based on whatever nonsense fairy tale that you tell yourself about “lesser evil” or SCOTUS or LGBT rights blah blah blah – then YOU are PART OF THE PROBLEM… not the solution.
At least take RESPONSIBILITY for that.
Otherwise, forget it. We are SCREWED. Will voting Third Party make much of a difference?? NO not much. But at least I am NOT endorsing & being co-dependent with a lying fraudulent SCAM. Sorry: not getting CONNED again. Bah humbug. Buy a clue.
What does Obama care? He’s a gazillionaire. EFF YOU, Obama got HIS. Figure it out. Obama LOATHES the 99%. The end.
Sounds about right. It’s tough to have a debate when both participants are taking the same side of an issue–every issue.
Too true, but it ALSO takes citizens, like you and me, to VOTE for them, to GOTV for them, and to stand up and DEMAND that the media pay attention. Will the media pay attention?? ONLY IF there’s enough push back and votes. Otherwise: crickets.
IOW: it’s up to YOU and ME… not some mythical “media” to do this job.
I need advice, fellow firepups.
1. I reside in a key swing state, Iowa.
2. I will not vote for our narcissist president.
3. I resolved to vote Stein or Rocky.
I detest Romney and the Rethugnazi party.
Would voting for Romney bring the conditions necessary for massive civil disobedience quicker than simply waiting for the system to collapse of its own volition?
I am with Chris Hedges. Either way civil disobedience is coming soon.
I was listening on the radio on my way home. I thought I was listening to Romney impersonate Marilyn Monroe, the way he was all breathy and passionate about joooooobs. oh, just made me so tingly all over.
Or that he was trying to hypnotize Obama. I think it worked.
I still hate Romney. But after 30 minutes I’m reminded, oh shit, I have to vote for this other guy?
Well where were the other parties on last nights debate? Seriously there are at least 3-4 other people on the presidential ticket and all we ever get feed from media is the same D and R BS. How can they call it a presidential debate when 3/4 of the field isn’t even invited to the event?
It was disgusting to see him get into bed with Romney on that.
He has SOOO bought into the republican bullshit about the big, bad, federal government fucking over poor little Wall Street and wasting money on all those “entitlements”.
Very depressing debate.. I feel depressed.
Obama’s Second Term Goal: Cut Social Security
Barak Obama’s got to be the most conservative candidate to ever representat the Democratic party. Well, if I wanted to vote for a conservative candidate for president, I would have voted for the Republican party.
I really hope that Obama changes his party registration to Republican, because that’s what he actually is.
There is enough Treasury bonds in the SS Trust Fund to cover the shortfall in payroll tax for the next quarter of a century. At which point the shortfall will be a stable 20%. But note that when the T bonds are gone the revenue stream that was redeeming them is still there, and it could be used to cover that 20% shortfall without increasing taxes. In so far as that revenue stream is from rolling the debt over, however, continuing it in that form would increase the national debt.
When was the last time we had a Democratic President who opposed unions, Social Security, public schools, Medicare, public employees and loved generals, banksters and hedge fund managers like Rahm?
I think it was in the 90s, when the Third Way messiah got the ball rolling with “welfare reform” and sending our jobs out of the country via NAFTA.
Agreed, but at least some of the other candidates were on Democracy Now last night responding to the Debate questions posed by Lehrer. It’s a start, frankly.
The best thing for a continuation of social security with no drastic cuts is for Romney to win. When he proposes Social Security cuts the left will become galvanized and will never allow it to pass. If Obama wins everyone falls into line like they have on all his other republican lite policies and agrees with Obama’s cuts.
Yeah, and I voted Third Party both times Clinton ran for office.
People say that Al Bore (who’s fat, btw) “lost” bc of third party spoiler Ralph Nadar – who was pointing out back then that There. Is. No. Difference. Between. The. “Two.” Parties.
Bore didn’t “lose” bc of Nadar. There was a coup d’etat by the Bush Crime Syndicate to put their “boy” in Office, and that’s when the SCOTUS got bought off.
figure it out.
we’re hosed.
Sounds like Obama and Biden are on different pages:
Indeed Mr Walker, Romney will cut SS also,the question is, have you seen a
“progressive”,”democratic” president cutting SS before?there you are.
who won the debate? no one, who loss the debate? every american.
I don’t know if that’s true or not. I doubt that. The now very authoritarian left will just step in line to drink the Kool Aid no matter who’s in office.
The vast majority of my trad-Dem friends continue to dismay me with how very rightwing they’ve become. Very selfish, self-absorbed and spouting nearly as much Tea Party b.s. as my rightwing friends.
Frankly, not only do I see precious little difference bet RMoney & DMoney, but I see precious little diff bet R voters & D voters.
KKKarl Rove is a Mastermind… evil, but a mastermind. I have to give that shithead that much. His propoganda wurlizter has done it’s evil deed in mezmerizing MUCH of the populace. Guess he took notes from Goebbels… yes I said it. There you go.
ROTFLOL…. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Fool me once, Shame on YOU. Fool me Twice, Shame on ME.
Won’t be fooled again… no no…
Worst Democrat ever.
well as Paul Ryan says: I am on the Romney ticket so his way goes.
Biden is on the Obama ticket so guess who’s way goes?
Biden after all isn’t Cheney.
Biden is Obama’s poodle. He’ll roll over & do what he’s told. The end.
Doubtful, SS payroll taxes changed didn’t double between ’83 and ’84.
1982-83….10.8%
1984…….11.4%
Have you guys ever seen The Caine Mutiny?
Do you feel like Van Johnson?????
That’s the ticket. My wife thought Obama tanked it on purpose to make the race tighten up to gin up the fear of a Rmoney win since it was starting to look like a potential landslide. This way the Obamabots will vote their fear instead of their conscience. Debate on the economy and only Anderson and Stein proposed stimulus spending and citing factual economic history. Recessions have never been reversed by austerity and it would have been interesting to ask O or R to give us an example.
I don’t know who came off worse, Obama or Jim Lehrer.
If that’s what you were told you were misinformed.
Congress can change the rules any time they want, and have almost yearly since the ‘40’s.
Did you see the interview with David Plouffe on MSNBC?
Now THAT was an interesting political moment. Him trying to explain Obama’s “deer in the headlights” appearance to Rachel and Chris Matthews. It was an “Other than that how did you enjoy the play Mrs. Lincoln” moment.
Fundraising tactic, maybe?
A somewhat leftish friend of mine just told me how “good” RMoney was in this debate… that RMoney was feisty & quick on his feet… very praising of him.
so, uh, well, ummmm….
No, I won’t watch MSM anymore for my sanity is at a tipping point and any more BS and my baffled brain will implode. I recorded the debate on Democracy now and ff’d thru all of O and R’s talking points and apparently I didn’t miss anything. Loved Rocky and Jill as the token representatives of the human race.
Smart idea. I don’t have ability to do that, but sounds like the way to go.
Interesting point. My wife watched the debate live and then watched the expanded debate with me and I ff’d thru Mitt and O. Before she saw Jill and Rocky she thought Mitt did much better but after hearing from the non corporate Candidates she thought both Mitt and O lost horribly.
LOL. On the radio, it sounded like Jim Lehrer was winning the debate.
Last nite was a classic Republican vs Republican debate and when given the chance most people will choose the real republican. Obama cldnt debate Romney bcz on most issues he agrees with him. The one thing that was really noticeable is how thin skin and disengaged Obama is when he is getting tough questions. He looked like a timid mouse last nite.
Vote your conscience not your fear from now on and this trend to fascism will turn toward real democracy. On major issues there will be no diff from an O or and R administration.
If you didn’t watch Democracy Now’s expanded version you should to see if it helps with your depression.
I don’t know how significant this is, but didn’t Kerry help O prepare for last night’s debate?
It appears the Dims are leaderless at this point – they are clueless as to how to protect SS and Medicare from the vultures.
They are the vultures.
Jill Stein *was* kinda awesome.
Agree, when she started I thought she sounded nervous but later I just thought it was because she was “fired up!”.
I thought she was really impressive. For being a essentially a lay person, her manner was very professional and clear. I liked her very much.
It’s depressing to think you are probably correct. I saw it last year when O put SS on the table as a bargaining chip during the debt ceiling fiasco – I never thought I’d live to see a Dim take one of their party’s crown jewels to bargain with the repugs. Because of that, and other things too numerous to mention, I’ll be voting for Jill Stein.
You can see why the R’s and D’s don’t want her on stage with O and R.
We must unite the (Boiling) Frog Party with the Green party.
Ribbit.
I think it is a given that Romney’s handler showed him how to “bob and weave” and look good. He HAS had lots of practice in the debates. What 25+ of them?
But to many he came off “All hat and no cattle.” Let’s not forget he is still stuck at 191 electoral votes and FL, VA, and NC will still not get him there.
The Green Frogs are boiling mad and we are not going….away. Texas will have to go green after the tarsands get there on Obama’s pipeline for refining. That is some nasty goop Canada is going to send you. If North Sea crude is filet mignon then tarsands are pink slime with tripe.
Ah yes, I remeber it well. And Reagan forever after got away with a rep as a tax cutter.
1983 tweaked sucked and so will Obama’s.
Biden was talking to a group of over 60 year olds. Their SS benefits won;t change. As a 50 yo, Biden’s assurances offer little comfort.
There should be a concerted effort by progressives in non-contested, Romney states to vote Green (or Rocky). Send a message to Obama by delivering a record number of votes to Green.
One thing people should remember.
For the past 30 years women have been working and contributing to Social Security.
Before that for the most part men’s contributions had to cover wives too.
This alone should have almost doubled the amount of money (well women are paid less in this country so maybe not doubled) what was being put into SS all these years as well as the raise that Reagan and Greenspan demanded from us.
You don’t win elections by trying to sound like and cozy up to your opponent. What a putz.
Forty years ago, Obama would be classified as a moderate Republican and nowhere near being a Democrat.
That Romney even has a prayer in this election and Obama doesn’t have a 20 point lead on him despite the obstructionism in Congress just goes to show what an inept and amateur corporatist he is. His administration will go down in history as one of the greatest fuck-ups and missed opportunities of all time.
I watched the Gore/Bush debate from 2000 the other night.
Bush laid out how he intended to destroy the middle class and they said great, I’m in.
Be very scared of these two corporatists.
Pain for us is coming.
Don’t forget the other section of Simpson Bowles is tax cuts! Corpoate tax cuts and MORE tax cuts for the wealthy…so who side is Obama really on? IT AIN”T THE MIDDLE CLASS! and don’t be shocked Obama puts in Bowles to replace Timmy baby….thanks Barry for fucking us w/o KY jelly!
Although I have heard Obama is not even a decent debator, I too believe this is what happened. In that way he won to shore up the Democrat fear vote.
In an election with even a modicum of credibility Romney would be at best a laughable candidate; and he was apparently the best of 6 or 7. The fact that we, the voting public, are supposed to loath the other half of America and presume they will vote for him in numbers very close to 50% is integral to the narrative that the Ds are spinning: that this election is the most important of our lives! It is one of Light vs. Darkness! I am tired of hearing this and then looking around after January and to see it is dimmer everywhere regardless.
I can hear the roaring throng of college students cheering on Obama from my open window now in Madison, WI. As he reminds them, by campaigning on campus, just how liberal and progressive is his forward-looking, droning administration. SS pension payments are a lifetime away for most of these kids and no one they know is stationed in Iraq or Afghanistan, I guess.
God, I wished the Democrats had primaried him.
The MSM is a corporate entity and the other candidates offer positions that aren’t corporate friendly. Instead of trying to make excuses for not voting for a progressive third party candidate, perhaps you should stop rationalizing voting for the uniparty duopoly and just vote for someone who represents your best interests.
One of the top 2 best corporatist Democrats ever though.
I think that program is available at DemocracyNow.org.
Which corporatist Democrat would have been chosen to primary him? Neither faction of the duopoly will defend the interests of the 99%, because they are members of the 1%.
Not a fan of anal rape? KY, the corporatist puppets don’t even use spit as a lubricant these days.
It is and I watched it again just to make sure I wasn’t imagining two politicians telling the truth and using facts.
all of the propoganda and destabalization techniques perfected by the oss and cia used in europe, south america and asia after ww2 have come home to roost here in the usa. we deserve are own demise because as a whole most of this country is stupid,selfish and short sided. people always wonder how a supposedly smart people in germany went bad in the 30s. all you have to do is look at the number of people here who do not know how to vote their true needs. we are not so different from those germans are we?
Obama is seeking a second term in order to become as “transformational” as St. Ronnie — and to kill the Democratic Party stone cold dead.
The party will not survive a second term of this Corporatist.
That may be a good thing…or it may not. It will be hell for the lower economic quintiles under both of these Corporatists.
Of course, you are right. I just wish some one was there to ask him real questions. Mostly so we wouldn't be going through "Who else ya gonna vote for?" Watching Stein and Anderson on the Democracy Now! extended debate was really awesome.
Figured I might as well cover a few more bases for you, Prez. Now, Mr. Blankfein needs those bumpers polished, asap, so hop to it! And don’t half-ass it this time, fella!