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For most of its history America has had a two party political system. It now appears we also have a two realities system, illustrated by our perceptions and trust of Fox News versus other major media. From PPP survey on TV media trust:
-Democrats trust everything- except Fox News. NBC does the best with them at +50 (67/17), followed by PBS and CNN at +49 (66/17 and 65/16 respectively), ABC at +38 (57/19), CBS at +35 (58/23), MSNBC at +33 (56/23), and even Comedy Central at +4 (36/32). Fox News comes in at -36 (25/61).
-Republicans meanwhile don’t trust anything except Fox News. PBS comes the closest to breaking even among non-Fox outlets, although not very close, at -30 (26/56). It’s followed by CNN at -49 (18/67), MSNBC at -51 (18/69), NBC at -52 (17/69), CBS at -54 (17/71), ABC at -56 (14/70), and Comedy Central at -59 (12/71). But Fox News comes in at a stellar 73/17.
Independents are with the Democrats. They trust everything except Fox News.
For good or ill there was a long period of time when there were only a few television networks that shared a more or less common viewpoint. Most everyone shared in the same set of “facts” presented by a limited number of major news sources. Much of the country shared this view of reality, even though the two parties had different ideas of how best to deal with the nation’s problems.
It now appears we are getting a two reality system on top of our two party political system. Each partisan group has it own set of facts, its own truth, and its own set of news sources for describing and interpreting its respective views of facts and truth. The two parties don’t just disagree on how to fix a problem; they often no longer agree even on what the problems are.
Suffice it to say, it seems a pipe dream to expect a bipartisan compromise on some bold plan of action to address the nation’s problems. That’s inherently impossible if you can’t even first agree on what reality is.
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My, what numbers! Incredible dichotomy! Sad.
This should cement the MSM liberal bias meme.
Is it any wonder Fox has the best cable news ratings?
Chris Hedges, on his recent In Depth appearance, as is his wont, did a nicely nuanced distinction betw the utter fabrications of Faux vs. the wishy washyness of corp media, incl the NYT where he worked for 20 years, which sometimes reports the facts. My , not his.
Link: http://www.booktv.org/Watch/13110/In+Depth+Chris+Hedges.aspx
Book recommendation for you.
Radio Rwanda, American division.
On the other hand, the house [N-word] treatment of Juan Williams
at the last Fox debate was worth the price of admission.
Whether it “cements the meme” or not is irrelevant when talking about the veracity of it. “Meme” just means an idea that passes from person to person in a culture but doesn’t address the truthfulness of it. If you’re talking about substantiating an idea, then this polling actually does the opposite. Two thirds of people don’t trust FOX “News” so far from “cementing the meme” regarding “liberal bias” in the news media, it’s much more likely to start a new one: that you can’t trust FOX “News”. While the meme that you mentioned is false, if the idea that FOX can’t be trusted becomes a “meme”, it will be absolutely true.
An example would be that there is a meme that proposes that the Earth is 6,015 years old. It is a “meme” because rather than being taught, this ridiculous idea has passed from person to person, starting with Ussher. In this case biological evolution is the fact that destroys that meme. Getting the difference?
Nice analogy.
The media monopolies must be broken up with anti-trust action.
Rupert Murdoch is on the hook for huge damage awards from all the lawsuits that will be filed by all the victims of the people the Murdochs wiretapped in the UK. The problem with Murdoch screwing with celebrities is celebrities all have lot of money to pay lawyers. David Beckham, for example, is probably gonna own about 5% of everything the Murdoch’s now own.
I think the Fox problem can dealt with by seizing everything the Murdochs own and put it under trustees to settle all the lawsuits.
That would be two “reality” system. Neither seems to have much connection to reality.
I think Rupert’s 89. His son is rapidly distancing himself I think. No probs though because a bribe here and a “campaign donation” there and all his problems will go away.
Just like the banks’…
There’s a lefty website somewhere around, probably blogspot, wherein the first part of the URL is something-or-other curmudgeon, that recently posted on Fox’s inability to get a foothold in Canada (no Fox Canada allowed, so they only broadcast the American production).
The reason is, quite clearly, that Canada has a federal statute prohibiting “lying” or “misleading” by a broadcast license holder.
End of story.
It was better in the days of Cronkite vs Huntley/Brinkley.
I see. So rather than “This should cement the MSM liberal bias meme.”, I should say “This should cement the MSM liberal bias.”
Thank you.
The reality is whatever benefits the 1% Corporate Fascists.
The medium(s) and political parties are utterly and completely irrelevant.
The messages and delivery systems are a pure obfuscation meant to detract, deceive and herd the masses.
McCluhan’s ‘the medium is the message’ is long passe in this nation and our present corporate fascist owned and operated land of the not so free . . .
All proggies know this, why focus on the medium OR the message, why not focus on the CAUSE and root of our sitch?
And focus on HOW it can be changed to better represent and inform we the people for our OWN betterment, and not the betterment of the 1% elite corporate fascists?
All the major news outlets are owned by corporations and thus tow the corporate line, the difference is in presentation. The American public is so propagandized that the vast majority still believe that they have a voice and choice in elections and rapacious capitalism is the only viable economic model despite all the evidence of the harmful effects on humans and the environment.
World governments are being controlled by corporations. Governments lie to their citizens and promote outdated ideas of nationalism and patriotism to foster war and discord so that the privileged few may profit off of human misery. Corporations are not persons and have no loyalty to anything other than to make a profit.
The myth of free markets is just that a myth. Capitalism moves toward monopoly and oligarchy. Competition is the antithesis of compassion, the very thing that makes human beings human. When the people of a nation cheer for the murder of any human life, one begins to wonder where is the humanity of those people. Vengeance is not justice no matter what our governments say. Yet,like the people of Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia, we will be told of our new enemy and the blood lust will begin anew.
Heh, nicely done, Margaret . . . you add a deft touch and nuance to my particular response.
Bottom line tho, the medium and messaging matter not when owned and operated by the same elites . . regardless of party, medium . . .
It’s all lies, damned lies.
;-)
Wrong again. What it actually does is refute the MSM liberal bias meme. I forgive you though. Apparently an inability to discern reality from fiction/bullshit is commonplace among FOX viewers. They have been found to be the least informed demographic over and over and over…
(btw, “refute” means to find to be incorrect or false, to argue/determine against a position, definition, etc.)
LMFAO!
I agree fully, but it’s a pipe dream unfulfilled in the bowl.
Reagan began media dereg and Clinton finished it off with media ownership dereg legislation.
Like the Bells, gotta be broken up, end of the major 3 networks, end of the corps who OWN them, end of Clear Channel, etc.
Sadly, that is NOT gonna happen in MY lifetime, and I’ve got 30 good years left on this rock.
The only caveat I’d put on that is pure economic devastation, which remains a distinct possibility at all times . . . in which case, media regulation of any sorts will not matter one whit of an owl’s hoot at midnight.
;-)
Glad someone clicked on the link. *g*
I like a good story, and I like a good ending!
My wife’s Scotian/Canucistanian . . . they do good things up there, despite the conservative party and whackaloon Quebecois right wing nuts . . . ;-)
Hence the popularity of PIPA and SOPA among the wealthy. Ironic though that it was the same fucking MPAofA that tried to outlaw VCRs and even though they were unsuccessful in that effort, they are now making more money than ever because of home video. Dinosaurs who refuse to evolve or crawl into the nearest tar pit piss me off!
Democrats and Republicans are dumb and dumber if they trust ANY corporate “news”. They are living in separate un-realities. I wish they lived in some other country.
“And that’s the way it was.”
Back to you, CHet.
Sigh . . . fond memories of them all . . . did we really get news, or was all that also diluted and propogandized?
Hint: Trick question for all journo savvy folks . . . ;-) Or just well informed savvy folks . . . still the memories linger for what we thot were better times then . . .
Flowery a bit and simplistic and we proggies all know it, still, good to see it in fonts once in a while for those who refuse to believe it.
Me, I been a believer for decades.
I’d rcc’d if I could, thanks for your fonts!
Shooter, perhaps the word “cement” is also being misused. To cement something means to set in place permanently. You really mean “confirm”, as to provide evidence for a belief.
However, the belief need not correspond to any version of truth to be so confirmed.
Your Aha sentence should read “This will probably confirm to FOX news viewers their previously held belief of a MSM liberal bias.”
That claim ignores the fact that the MSM can be considered liberal only in relation to Fox News
The difference is only cosmetic. If I have to listen to Michael fucking Moore or Kieth Olbermann promise that they’re going to drop Obama if he does/doesn’t do _______________, (and this time they mean it!), only to cozy back up to him and be his best buds again over the ensuing week, I swear I’m going to throw up. Republican insanity is not an excuse to settle for Democratic duplicity.
*g* You slay me.
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb.
Sadly there is a huge number of non Fox viewers or Fox believers who are just as deluded and misled than the right wingers.
Add the two groups up and it’s 2/3 or MORE of this country who are easily deluded and will NEVER come to grips with the reality of our corporate fascist ownership . . .
I guess that group I allude to would be some loon Libertarians, antisocialists, self declared outcasts, and closet racists, misogynists and homophobes of all colors and religions . . . even some atheists.
;-)
But not us. *G*
I’d rather sleigh you.
She’s good, ain’t she. ;-)
Run Spot, Run!
In 2000, after the Gore/Bush fiasco, our business and it’s owner switched every TV to Fox News. He even allowed mgrs. to broadcast Limbaugh in some areas of these businesses. This was 11 different locations in the metro area. Hundreds of people every day exposed to the doublespeak. To this day this practise is allowed by many business groups in one of the most progressive cities on the West Coast. Customer feedback and complaints didn’t/doesn’t change a thing. And CNN appears to stand for Christian News Network, lately. The Corporate and 1%ers answer to all of the complaints is the same in every instance, ” The beatings will continue until the morale improves “. 99%ers response cannot be,” Can I have another, sir ” or we’re all toast. Our money is our only power against this. Just sayin’.
I was raised on those books. I’ve got some original copies that I bought in a used book bookstore, including a ‘teacher’s version.’
It’s almost pointless to discuss politics of right now because of Citizen United. Citizen’s United has the US political system that badly.
Obviously, Citizen United has to fixed first before. Do you want an asterisk on everything posted now saying that?
*Obviously, Citizen United has to be fixed first.
I’m hep but the split has been thus since I’ve been alive and paying attention: A rough third each are delusional conservatives, delusional liberals and the people who are intellectually curious and critical thinkers. That we find ourselves allied with the liberals more often than we do the conservatives, doesn’t mean they get a “get away with it free” card though and neither the liberals or conservatives can grasp that. Loyalty is everything for them. They can’t seem to get being loyal to the truth.
Yes, citizens united has to go. No question. The money cuts need to be much more draconian than just that though!
Now that looks fun.
I haven’t been around too long but I know better than to mess with her. *g*
Off to dinner prep. BBL.
MPAA and RIAA, to continue your ‘meme’ constructs above, tout their loyalty to artists while ensuring artistic copyright and licensing remain under their own exclusive influences and provinces to tally and distribute thru the artist unions which are a joke serving the 1% elites.
SOPA and PIPA would completely destroy the whole indie movement of music and other arts . . . . it would preclude and suppress the creation and distribution of music and visual arts being done for a few decades now.
Artists who shun labels, recording contracts, distribute product for free on the internet to promote themselves, video tape live shows and give them for free on the internet, sell cd’s at fests and out of the back of their cars . . . sell cd’s at house concerts . . . hell, now some of my fav americana and outlaw and tradgrassnewgrass jam grass artists are doing live podcasts for free or for sale on line.
They TOTALLY bypass the entire recording and distributing empire chain of process . . . n the man is getting it STUCK to him, for sure, with these efforts.
SOPA and PIPA are all about taking this down and out. For MPAAQ and RIAA, and the 1% elites who own and operate it all.
Glad you brought that up!!!
Indeed!
Margaret, the Troll Buster.
I don’t recall what I read up thru the first half of 3rd grade as we were over seas and I bounced thru all KINDS of educational institutions . . . Catholic, Calvert, local stuff taught in bi-lingual sets.
But once in USA permanent, I recall Spot, Dick, Jane and more. But I was reading at a 6th grade equivalent by then, sfi fi, books about sports figures, aviation books n stories of war heroes and pilots (including Amelia) and fantasy books of King Arthur and more.
My parents, while we were overseas, got us all 3 reading early and got books of any sort they thot would be engrossing and learningful in any manner . . . tons of paperbacks littered our rooms and the places we lived . . . it made a bit impression on us all, as was intended.
There were life lessons to be learned about good and evil, right and wrong, honor and conviction of heart . . . you know, all the stuff school’s never really got into in the USA . . . . ;-)
No quibbles there, ma’am . . . none.
They don’t get much better n that . . . and that’s just the way it is.
;-)
Well, off to other pastures of pleasures . . . nice chat with all y’all and the diary authors read . . .
Whatever the putative subject and bias of this thread’s main article — something about audience perception of TV news reporting, it’s an old saw and very tiresome. In the late 1970′s, when there was no cable news, no FOX anything on TV, when hardly anyone had cable, some 75% of Americans believed that they watched or saw the murder of JFK when it happened, or on the same day, even though no one saw it before 1975 when a version of the Zapruder film was made public.
NASA gave us Tang and Teflon, TV gave us microwave popcorn.
For some reason a neighbor had readers that were a grade or two or three above my grade. Think his father might have worked for the publisher. I lapped those up like crazy, until I was old enough to go to the library by myself, when I came home with arm loads of books.
I am tempted that way, myself.
Yet in too many ways the ’60s were also a dreadful time. Only the arts flourished then, which is a sign of directionless anarchy I think. Some good had to float to the top.
Cronkite, etc., were simply lucky to be able to arbitrate the narrow funnel of information in those days. Now, instead, the proliferation of sources has become a curse, no? Who is to blame?
Gawd, what a list!
Is it possible for anyone to have those aspects at once? Or, if not, would the afflicted at least sit next to each other at a lunch counter?
I think some of those might actually be contradictory.
Being a serious scholar you doubtless know that McLuhan barely focussed on TV when he wrote (a massive amount) about ‘media’, from cave drawings, roads and empires, the development of the phonetic alphabet, writing, manuscripts, perspective drawing, to the effects of printing, railroads, and lastly the telegraph and electric speed. All media he said alter our psychic and social orientations, and without ‘understanding media’ (the title of one of his books), we cannot understand the effects on our lives and our society.
Larue… I don’t think large chunks the world’s population are very far at all from “pure economic devastation.” Revolutions are not not stopping at one national borders anymore. One country revolts, everybody else watching gets braver.
Is there really much difference between FOX News and the other segments of the corporate media, aka FOX News lite? The problems isn’t difference between tribal affiliations and their respective brand loyalties, it’s too much of the same.
Really? Seems to me there’s scant evidence of this. IMO, behind the cartoon portrayals of difference (MSNBC vs FOX for example) the Washington Consensus remains intact and undisturbed.
As a general principle, I think it’s safe to say that any claim that there’s too much partisanship in our system is pretty weak.
Shooter, if FOX told the truth then why aren’t they allowed to broadcast in Canada, which requires it news media to tell the truth?
Everyone, keep hitting Shooter the Lie-Lover with this, over and over again.
Here’s some reality for you, Shooter — you are the dupe and puppet of very rich men who laugh at you, your gullibility, and your faux-machismo:
Does the Washington Consensus sanction a war on science? No, it does not.
Yet that’s what is being shoved at us by the Kochs and their religio-racist-right allies, who hate both biology (because they hate evolution) and climate science.
As my co-blogger said a while back, the dividing line is not so much between Democrat/Republican, liberal/conservative, but ethical/unethical.
News outlets are like any other business. When it come to money or truth, they are going to give the news that makes them money, whether it is Fox or MSNBC. If there is a story that may cost them ratings or advertisers, you ain’t going to hear it. Simple as that.