I suspect the answer to that question turns on the definition of being a right-endowed American. Everybody has to pay taxes, but only a small minority have actual rights. You don’t have rights unless you’re rich or have friends in high places. If Holder were honest (which he isn’t), this is how we would respond.

Banana Holder? Please. He’s looking forward.

Atty gen Holder = Sgt. Schultz. He sees NUTTTING…NUTTING!

Boxturtle (Schultz seems a much nicer person, though.)

Dagnabbit, where’s the FDL petition I just signed on this very point? This would be a good thread to link to it.

Everything you said is absolutely correct. But it’s also true that Eric Holder does not give a shit. I signed that petition bluewombat refers to, but do not expect any result.

There can be no doubt that Eric Holder is a tool of the 1% who make the rules. It is not really the 1% it is the club within the 1% that is not subject even to the rules that do exist.

You’re expecting something from Placeholder??

Good luck with that.

it is my understanding that prior to being the AG, Holder was a partner at a law firm where one of the clients was the republican national commitee. If so how active do you think this democrat in name only( like oblabla)would be? In Europe 5 “leftist” governments (actually lefist in name only due to corporate corruption-sound familiar?) have been replaced by out of power right wing governments. Springtime for hitler and germany, wintertime for poland and france…..what a great song for today

Yep, I thought they closed down doj.

They got paid leave. s/

When these people leave office, they should be harrassed for the rest of their lives. Screw Obama, Holder, Bush, Cheney, etc. Will we never run out of Secret Service agents for these aholes?

Seems we need OccupytheCourt.

put pike
the cop that peppered sprayed in ny
the cop that shot scott olsen
the cop that throw and knocked the reporter to the ground and so on.

Think we can do it online and let the people vote guilty or not. waiting for dept of jokes it is never going to happen

Not everyone has to pay taxes.

For instance, Verizon, one of the biggest, most profitable companies in the world, paid Zilch. Zero. Nada. Why?

It makes no sense to me. In a way, it makes sense for oil company revenues to be taxed at a lower rate – because otherwise the people using oil get hit with higher prices.

But Verizon? No one really needs a cell phone, and car accident rates would return to 1997 levels if foilks were not texting, or calling, or answering their damn phones.

Oh, and the tax rates need to be adjusted so that rich executives, even at the oil companies, are hit with the old Clinton era tax of 39 %.

Congress shall make no law prohibiting the right of the people peaceably to assemble,

That’s pretty clear to me. NO LAW. And for those that think this only affects federal laws, no, states can’t have unconstitutional laws either.

NO LAW. No law prohibiting certain spaces. No law prohibiting certain times. No law prohibiting certain issues. NO LAW.

Of course I post here for entertainment purposes only, since the Constitution, and therefore the first amendment to it, mean nothing anymore.

Just feels better to rant a bit. There. All better until the next rant is needed.

Like Obama, Holder was selected for his lack of principles. Holder proved himself defending the Murderous Chiquita (nee United Fruit Company) against the workers it routinely poisoned and routinely gunned down.

Kissinger loves these guys.

Jon, don’t want to come off as a conspiracy-monger, but if one accepts a likelihood or possibility of Fed. involvement in the police actions across the country–be it funding, training, intelligence coordination, use of DHS special jurisdictions (‘frozen-zones’)–or some combination of these, then I’d have more confidence that an assigned special-prosecutor might be more effective.

I can’t help but to dwell on the hypocrisy of our corporate media:

Arab Spring: All hail the brave kids over there, fighting for simple freedoms and a better life. Young heroic patriots deserving our support! Hooray…

OWS: Look at all the stoned hippies. They should get a job and have a shower, bunch o’ shiftless, selfish potheads crapping all over everything.

Example number 1158 of how our corporate media lies to us everyday. Sums up perfectly why I gave money to FDL.

Righteous Rant. Well Done. We must be reminded of the rights we are supposed to have.

One of the things that I’ve been trying to inject into this conversation is the case of other passive activists up in Humbolt county in Northern California who were subjected to pepper spray by police to stop a protest.

What the police did in that case (putting Q-tip swaps with pepper spray on them right into the eyes of activists)has been ruled excessive force. The ruling came down in 2005.

San Francisco – An eight-person federal jury returned a unanimous verdict for the Q-Tip Pepper Spray Eight activists/plaintiffs, finding the County of Humboldt and City of Eureka liable for excessive force in violation of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Humboldt County Sheriff’s Deputies and Eureka Police Officers used unconstitutional excessive force when they applied pepper spray with Q-tips directly to the eyes of the eight nonviolent forest defense protesters in three incidents in 1997. Three of the activists were also sprayed directly in the eyes from inches away. Two of the young women were juveniles, aged 16 and 17.

Here is a link for more info.

Oh, for the glory days when John Ashcroft stood up (or at least lay down) for the Bill of Rights.

youtube the video that CNN doesn’t want you to see. It’s a bunch of Teabaggers, but it is very enlightening. CNN skewed their report and lied about it. Caught red-handed.

BTW Jon,

I’m assuming this:

Eric Holder, Do Americans Have Constitutional Rights or Not?

was a rhetorical question…

I’d love to see that. Can you help me out?? If no link then maybe tell me exactly what to put into Google to get me the right hit? I sooooo suck at searches. I always get millions of hits or none.

Sure doesn’t seem to have any effect on current police practices. Since the cops are protected from prosecution, except in extreme circumstances, why wouldn’t they use excessive force on anyone they wish. Worst case they’d have to sit through a boring civil suit and any awards paid by you and me.

Good piece from Maddow:Why are Police Using Military Weapons On Peaceful Protesters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SffeY2yNBJ4

It’s interesting how a bunch of Christian right, lunatics are allowed to protest at military funerals without fear of pepper spray or beatings but citizens exercising their rights against the 1% are dangerous criminals.

That is a good questions. So I dug up the people who train cops in the pepper spraying procedures who not only teach classes but teach online refresher classes (that should have the updated rules)

I sent that info to one of my favorite reporters at the Guardian in the UK since she has been doing great work and she might have the same question.

That is why I demand the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division launch an investigate into this incident.

Well, they could do that, I guess. And then in due course, late some Friday afternoon next August, there would be a report, which would conclude that mistakes were made, much remains unclear, both sides are to blame, new guidelines are needed …

Eric is down with torture as torture is now the new normal.

Check out this comment from Joe sixpack on my rejection of torture in an earlier post

“. Do we protect American lives and civilized society or turn the other cheek ? Water is pretty cheap. My DeWalt drill costs a little more but it’ll do the job, too. Whatever it takes.”

Could have been Eric for all I know.

Hey Holder, we already had Mississippi Burning? I prefer not to see America Burning?

Selective enforcement? To busy investigating copyright infringement on behalf of huge corps I guess?

9/11 changed everything. The Patriot Act and DHS have changed the domestic law enforcement policies, procedures and funding. The Inspector General of the Department of Justice will appoint a single official who will handle all civil rights and civil liberties abuse claims. Contact information for the official will be made public through the internet, television, and radio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act,_Title_X#Sec._1005._First_responders_assistance_act.

I have a broader question. And, it is a question. During the “TEA PARTY” rallies, where inappropriate signs were displayed, where guns were seen on broadcasts, why were there NO incidence like we have been seeing with OWS demonstrations?

OWS and student are not displaying despicable signs, nor are they toting weapons. They are more like the Civil Rights & Vietnam protests, where dogs and firehoses were used or military (national guard) were killing students.

Does this all seem questionable? Students, youth, and others are considered as expendable, but people with 3 corner hats are “CITIZENS” with rights. CURIOUS?

I believe the Civil Rights Division should and will become active in this UC Davis matter.

As to your assertions concerning the First Amendment, that is not how the Supreme Court has interpreted it. The activity the students were involved in would fall within the speech plus line of cases. In the key case of Cox v Louisiana, the Supreme Court stated:

”We emphatically reject the notion urged by appellant that the First and Fourteenth Amendments afford the same kind of freedom to those who would communicate ideas by conduct such as patrolling, marching, and picketing on streets and highways, as those amendments afford to those who communicate ideas by pure speech.The conduct which is the subject to this statute–picketing and parading–is subject to regulation even though intertwined with expression and association.”

Did anyone catch this yet? Pregnant Woman Blasted with Pepper Spray by SPD Says She Miscarried (Updated)

It looks like the doctors say that it was the cops that caused it.

There is a lively conversation going on at C&L including the trolls blaming the victim.

The same court which said people are property? A compromised SJC!

You can “demand” all you want, but until FDL stands up to Obama your words are FOLLY.

As far as funding…Sec. 1014. Grant program for State and local domestic preparedness support.States will receive money to buy equipment and training for first responders (police, fire, ambulance.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act,_Title_X#Sec._1005._First_responders_assistance_act.

fuck the fascist bastards……….

I’m not saying this concept is “right”, but one answer to your question is that carrying guns in W Va, and Mont. and other places where the Tea Party people did so is legal. Whereas, walking on the bridge in NY is not.

When local and state law enforcement began to infringe on the civil rights protesters in the sixties, JFK and RFK stepped in. Where is Holder? Wher is Obama? Where is ANYBODY in this damn administration???

Cox was decided in 1965.

I agree. I never thought we would use the “F” word in our country. And I don’t mean the one that ends in “k”, but the one that ends in “t”.

Would that not constitute murder under Washington state law?

Pay attention, FDLers, this is very important. Obama is the problem, not Holder. Come voting day the choice is clear – vote Against the guy who’s screwed you at EVERY opportunity, or you can vote against someone you’re afraid will screw you.
I thought “Chauncey” Bush was the worst President ever UNTIL I witnessed what Obama’s done. I promise you, I will vote for ANY Republican over Obama.

So how old are you anyways?

Manslaughter actually.

Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 9A.32.060 declares that a person is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree when he intentionally and unlawfully kills an unborn quick child by inflicting any injury upon the mother of such child.

Some people say that the life of the fetus should be explicitly protected. But others prefer criminalizing an assault on a pregnant woman and recognizing her as the only victim.

Can we bring Bush back just to punish Obama?

Well Obama and Holder are the problem. If Holder were ethical, he’d resign, but he’s not. The problem now is the lack of an honest broker for the citizens in our President or the GOP Pod Candidates. Gee, another lose-less/lose situation.

~
casual is exactly correct – the justice department’s organized squelching of constitutionally protected speech by local police forces outfitted with urban warfare equipment (also by the department of uberland security) -

I don’t understand why the lawyers committee that advises OWS during actions has not sued DOJ to seek clarification re: what is meant by ‘public assembly’ and petitioning grievances

Hardly worth mentioning, the THUNDERING SILENCE echoing out from this White House on even such a basic matter of personal liberty, given Mr. “Change We Can Believe In’s” record of abject betrayal.

Most of the cognitive dissonance experienced by those on the receiving end of the force of law stems from trying to reconcile the prole-pacifying propaganda – that everyone is a person, with rights – with the reality that from the very framing of the Constitution only the wealthy were considered people.

The rights of “the people” have only ever applied to the wealthy. It was true in the Europe from which the U.S. descended, it was true at the founding of this country, and it’s just as true now.

Any dissonance is experienced only by the underclasses, who have for decades been pacified by the tales that they too are people with rights – much like investors in Bernie Madoff’s scam were pacified with tales of the wealth in their accounts. The underclasses are now trying to actually exercise those mythical rights – with about as much success as Madoff’s investors trying to actually withdraw their supposed funds.

All oppressive behaviors have as their basic belief the inferiority, the non-humanity of the oppressed. This is true in the U.S. with the 99%, it’s true in Israel with the Palestinians, it’s the way it’s always been.

A basic truth of logic is a false premise implies any conclusion. And the false premise here – from the standpoint of the powerful – is that we’re people.

“When we said ‘We the People,’ we didn’t mean you.”

He had a chance in New hampshire to comment and condemn and passed on commening after he was hit with a MIC check.

I disagree! Obama, Holder, Geithner, Napolitano, Biden, Reid, Panetta, and Pelosi are THE PROBLEM.

it will send a damning message: police can ignore and violate the Constitutional rights of regular Americans with impunity

Shit it’s already happening. How do you stop the asses. I agree it was torture what happened at UC Davis.

Nicely put. I totally misunderstood the “Preamble”. My bad. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now, where did I put that damn “Bill of Rights”. I probably “misread’ THAT too.

I’ve always tried to make it a point NOT to engage a person who has gun, a taser, pepper spray, a shitty attitude, AND a short temper.

Happen to catch Rachel last night as I was channel surfing and she made a good point. (Which, for her, is a rarity these days). She noted that so-called non-lethal weapons were designed and justified on the grounds that they could replace lethal force, but in reality they have just given the police more ways and opporunities to inflict force without killing people.

Noting the Davis incident, she asked if the cops would really have used live ammo instead of pepper spray, LRAD, water cannons, etc? Obviously, no.

The DOJ has just been FOIAed in that regard–see update about it here, in case you want to take a look:

http://amovingworld.blogspot.com/2011/11/democracy-now-broadcast-yesterday-juan.html

Here’s a good place to start if you’d like to send Officer Pike a note: http://www.maryannaville.com/category/activism/

Nicely put. I totally misunderstood the “Preamble”. My bad. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now, where did I put that damn “Bill of Rights”. I probably “misread’ THAT too.

While it can be read as simply snarky, I typed that comment about the “other” not being seen as people because that one little bit of understanding – of the differences in belief and thus perception of the two groups – explains pretty much everything else.

And the difference in belief as to who’s really a person also explains how to change things for the better: by reaching out and creating bonds of common humanity. This is why social groups who were previously pitched against one another – e.g., different races, different cultures – when finally exposed to each other come together (to find some other basis for creating divisions, usually, but that’s just the unconscious cycle between union and separation, it won’t change until there’s a real awakening, not just simple change). The races, cultures, religions that were once held carefully apart, even taught that the “other” is the enemy, find they’re the same after all.

I suppose one could call it an exercise in consciousness thermodynamics, creating a new equilibrium from two states between which there exists some delta by removing the barriers that separate them (it’s the separating barriers that allow the delta to exist).

So rather than calling for investigations or whatever, which are probably well-intentioned but ultimately pointless (since the investigator doesn’t share the same worldview as the person calling for it), understanding the differences in belief as to who is really a person lets us see that what we most need to do is look for each other’s common humanity.

And in this particular case this includes looking for how this de-humanizing of the “other” is something we all do. Now our “oppressors” and “opponents” are simply ourselves with a vision problem.

This transcendence through coming together, the union of what appear to be opposites but are actually two parts of one larger whole, is what underlies all the sayings and truisms about loving thy enemy, being the change, marriage, etc.

Prepare for more of the same and worse as citizens protest oppression by the 1%.

When the Tea Party spit on AA congress members, that was A-OK with the 1% bc why not? Who cares? Spit all you like on politicians, esp if you’re a stooge for fascists.

Stand up (or sit down) for your own 99% rights? Fahgeddaboudit… Corporate Lackey Obama & his lackey AG, Holder, ain’t gonna do a damn thing for the 99%. Obama and Holder do NOT work for the 99%, in case you haven’t noticed. They work for the 1%; they are both well compensated for it; and neither’s gonna do doodly-squat to stop the fascist goon tactics of violent “enforcement” against citizens practicing what are called “our civil rights.”

Unless or until an even GREATER number of the 99% takes a stand on this, we will see much more of the same and worse oppressive tactics.

Just saying… The so-called Constitution and the Bill of Rights is meaningless and does not apply to the 99%. Got it??

We have no rights. Sorry Jon. The Constitution is a museum piece.

It is also imperative to investigate whether there is an on-going “security” conspiracy to use preventive brutality in order to intimidate Americans from freely participating in OWS, i.e., is there a conspiracy to crush the movement?

Eric Holder, 1%er in good standing. Made his bones defending assassins of labor movement organizers in Central America.

Perfect summation of our scumbag AG.

We’ve seen evidence of it, esp when the Oakland mayor talked about a conf call amongst various mayors to coordinate efforts to quash Occupy protests at the same time in various cities. Quite likely that DHS funds – aka your tax dollars – are very much being used to coordinate efforts. Don’t think otherwise.

Tea Partiers can do whatever they damn well please, but they’re stooges for the fascists.

Occupy is standing up for the rights of the 99% against the corp fascists; they don’t like that.

Holder is a tool.

Strike that.

Holder is a dubious Attorney General, dubious, indeed.

Well, I would never vote for any Republican, but I also won’t vote for Obama again. I’ll vote third party, write in or just wipe my ass with the ballot and shove it in the Republican optical scanner machine. Obama is an intelligent fascist, the Rethugs are just plain crazy fascists.

It’s always bothered me that police have special rights. I understand their job is extremely hard and they risk their lives, but I do not think their lives are WORTH more. And that has always been the understanding that I see and it is morally wrong. Special laws and extra penalties for hurting law officers. And living in a liberal city like Portland, and watching our often Gestapo force get away with literally murder for years-(of minorities and mentally ill especially) has been stomach churning. They did a pretty decent job recently during Occupy in PDX but I trust them with nothing. Another Kent State seems a whisper away.

“police can ignore and violate the Constitutional rights of regular Americans with impunity.”

I think the problem is rather worse than that. Breach of contract voids the contract. By ignoring their obligations under the social contract, our authorities undermine their own authority and legitimize breaches of the law. If the CIA can torture prisoners, the UC Davis police can assault citizens, and the NYPD can arbitrarily destroy property and sieze individuals, all with complete impunity, then anyone can. It may take awhile for this to sink in. But, inevitably, actions like this erode lawfulness generally and legitimize counter-violence.

This is why I find it astonishing that the rich and the powerful–those with most need of the protection of the law and those whose power derives from it–are rushing to its destruction. The One Percenters appear to be blindly and enthusiastically cutting their own throats.