I don’t want to be entirely cynical about President Obama’s jobs speech yesterday. Some of the ideas in his proposal, like the money to fix up old schools, are great. He is finally putting his rhetorical focus on the issue the American people actually wanted him to be talking all along. If the package Obama outlined last night was actually a compromise that Obama got the Republican Congressional leadership to agree to, I might even consider this fairly poorly designed plan a decent deal.
The problem, though, is that this jobs package isn’t going to pass Congress, so this speech wasn’t about policy, it was about messaging. From that perspective, the speech was very scary to me as a progressive, because in the middle of what should have been a speech about getting Americans back to work, Obama very publicly endorsed putting Medicare and Medicaid on the deficit-reduction chopping block. Most important, Obama signaled he supports reducing Medicare spending that “some in his party” won’t like. From Obama’s Speech:
This approach is basically the one I’ve been advocating for months. In addition to the trillion dollars of spending cuts I’ve already signed into law, it’s a balanced plan that would reduce the deficit by making additional spending cuts, by making modest adjustments to health care programs like Medicare and Medicaid, and by reforming our tax code in a way that asks the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations to pay their fair share. (Applause.) What’s more, the spending cuts wouldn’t happen so abruptly that they’d be a drag on our economy, or prevent us from helping small businesses and middle-class families get back on their feet right away.
Now, I realize there are some in my party who don’t think we should make any changes at all to Medicare and Medicaid, and I understand their concerns. But here’s the truth: Millions of Americans rely on Medicare in their retirement. And millions more will do so in the future. They pay for this benefit during their working years. They earn it. But with an aging population and rising health care costs, we are spending too rapidly to sustain the program. And if we don’t gradually reform the system, while protecting current beneficiaries, it won’t be there when future retirees need it. We have to reform Medicare to strengthen it.
This statement from Obama is, of course, a deception, to make it seem as if Congressional liberals are unreasonable when it comes to Medicare. Progressives support ways to reduce Medicare spending by methods such as allowing Medicare to directly negotiate for drug prices. Progressives just do not support shifting costs onto old people. Obama saying he supports Medicare changes “some in his party” won’t like is code for saying he will support cutting benefits.
Most of the jobs parts of the speech are unlikely to pass, so on the policy front they won’t really matter much. On the other hand, there is a Super Committee currently empowered to make large deficit reductions, so this part of the speech about cutting Medicare benefits could be the only policy from the speech that is enacted.
I fear all that may result from this speech is that Obama gets a campaign message about how the Republicans don’t care about jobs, and Obama helps the Super Committee raise the Medicare retirement age.
Photo by: Ed Yourdon under Creative Commons.





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It’s not his gott damm party any more. He left the Democratic party when he gave all the money away to the oligarchs and billionaire trust fund heirs in December 2010. He is not a Democrat, so the people who are defending Medicare, Medicaid & Social Security from his stupidity and lack of balls are not in his party, they are Democrats. He is a Plutocrat. he can go fuck himself.
This bullshit will not pass. Chris Van Hollen is going to be un-elected in 14 months if I have anything to say about it.
Why isn’t EVERYONE “entirely cynical” about Obama’s Jobs speech last night? Why isn’t EVERYONE “entirely cynical” about his entire Presidency? Obama failed to lead America, the Country that gave him everything, when it desperately needed what he promised – moral courage & leadership.
Obama is proof that there is one semi-moderate Republican left.
in an economy where we have more laborers then jobs, the president’s incredibly lucid strategy is to RAISE retirement age
BRILLIANT!!!!
IN an economy where we have a supposed deficit issue, the president’s solution was to LOWER taxes
BRILLIANT!!!
I could go on but i am really fed up with this trojan benedict wolf in sheeps clothing
Obama’s stance on Medicare is bullshit. Healthcare costs are out of control because there are no cost containment measures whatever in the industry. There are none in the prescription drug programs. He’s approaching the horse from the ass-end instead of the head where you can control the animal.
Health care in the U.S. is a for-profit industry. As such, their goal is maximizing profit while reducing costs to themselves. If their costs rise, they simply raise prices/rates to cover them.
Unless and until the industry is either slapped with rigid price controls or abolished through a government run and controlled single-payer system, think: GB’s NHS, nothing will change and Medicare costs and healthcare costs in general will eat up more and more of the country’s resources.
He’s demanding the users of Medicare pay for the sins and profits of the healthcare industry bandits.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/15/AR2009011504114.html
Obama Pledges Reform of Social Security, Medicare Programs
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 16, 2009
President-elect Barack Obama pledged yesterday to shape a new Social Security and Medicare “bargain” with the American people, saying that the nation’s long-term economic recovery cannot be attained unless the government finally gets control over its most costly entitlement programs… “What we have done is kicked this can down the road. We are now at the end of the road and are not in a position to kick it any further,” he said. “We have to signal seriousness in this by making sure some of the hard decisions are made under my watch, not someone else’s.”
obama has gotten far more right wing policies passed then any republican could, I would hardly call him a moderate republican, he is pretty far to the right even for them, he’s just not bat shit crazy like the tea party but he’s far far to the right
yup, he’s been wanting to give our assets away to the wealthy since before he became president
nice guy that trojan benedict wolf
Cat food for the peasants and tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires. Keep your eyes on Social Security that is what Obama has left to give to Wall St and the Bankster criminals.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html
Internal Memo Confirms Big Giveaways In White House Deal With Big Pharma
09-13-09
A memo obtained by the Huffington Post confirms that the White House and the pharmaceutical lobby secretly agreed to precisely the sort of wide-ranging deal that both parties have been denying over the past week…
It says the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government’s leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada — and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates…
We could cut Medicare costs by negotiating lower Rx prices. But no, that would dick over Tauzin & Co. So instead, we must cut benefits for the little people, the little pieces of shit who don’t write big checks to the whores in DC.
I agree. I see nothing at all “moderate” about Obama, even for a so-called “Republican” point of view. Obama may not be quite bat-shit crazy, like most of the lunatic fringe that purport to be “Tea Party,” but is Obama even that far away from their politics? I mean, how much difference is there, really, between someone like Chris Christie, who I thought was supposed to be more or less Tea Party, and Barack Obama??
IMO, as far as “serfs” go, I feel like Obama more closely represents the stated goals/aims/needs of Tea Party voters, than anyone else out there. Of course, Obama’s “job” is to take care of the super-mega-wealthy; Obama is the upper 2%’s hired hand.
However, as far as the “small people” are concerned, Obama more closely represents what the Tea Partiers say they want. Oh the irony… JMHO, of course. See nothing particularly moderate about Obama.
man o man o man
Obama is truly the worst president ever – at least Nixon went to China, and Bush the least did something about AIDS in africa. He is the scum of the earth (my apologies to scum)
Yes.
And if we start advocating for cutting Rx costs, then David Koch will peel off a coupla mill$$ in chump change, rev up the engines, and gin up the Tea Partiers to start shrieking & screaming about “socialism” and “NaziKenyanHitler” yadda yadda. The corp-owned fascist propoganda media will lovingly film every Tea Party “event” in exacting detail (except that the footage will be shot so as to make the turn-out look bigger than it is). Any counter-protests by progressives, of course, will be censored/ignored/blacked out.
And so: on it goes….
I am boycotting any corp that writes a check to the Democrats. The Democrats have taken this country backwards and added to Bush’s wars and Wall Street’s corrupt ways. Now they are playing the peoples’ needs for job creation by the federal government, and turning that into an other opportunity to loot the system.
- Increase period for drug pricing protection.
- Refuse to allow re-importation of drugs.
- Refuse to allow Medicare to negotiate drug pricing as the VA does.
Three Medicare cost containment policies that could be implemented and would definitely drive down drug costs.
So the solution from the President and the Republicans? Cut Medicare.
What’s so hard to understand about who the winners and who the losers are in this?
I posted this downstairs but it applies in this thread as well -
the usual choreography in these cases calls for Congressional Dems and other Dem Institutions to validate, underscore, and promote the POTUS’s plan – usually done with memo’s and papers citing some study blah, blah, blah
in this case, House Ways and Means Committee Dems did indeed publish a ‘policy memo’ on cost savings for the Super Committee
. . . except in this case, it is as wishy-washy, non committal as it gets – the memo says you can raise eligibility age, dot dot dot, but it’s only going to give you a small savings and it will only work if HCR bill remains intact
not the usual tone or tact – these quislings must be shitting their pants over this – a well deserved fate for their acquiescence
recall Senator Dorgan’s drug reimportation amendment towards the end of the HCR debacle, and the WH dispatching Lautenberg and Menendez to the floor with a bag of parliamentary tricks to block it
true true
I know I am missing something obvious here, and I can count on you guys to clear it up for me.
I don’t understand how these shitty proposed CPI changes and continued payroll tax cuts will funnel any new $$ to Wall Street and the banks, unless funds were taken from SS coffers and invested in some fund scheme as an alternative to what is being done now.
I can see how squeezing seniors instead of raising taxes on the filthy rich and corporations would be just what the neolibs ordered, but not how it would benefit Wall St. and the banks directly.
Thx.
That should be in every story written here about this issue, as should this which also applies to the US. Where the peasants should feel happy they might get a few billion while the criminals are getting trillions.
Jon and David I know you work hard to bring us these stories, but I do think we need to widen the talking points beyond the artificial confines that the politicians would love to keep it to
“We’re on the way to a worldwide financial dictatorship governed by bankers,” said Peter Gauweiler, German Bundestags Representative (CSU), in an interview published Monday in the Welt Online. “We don’t support Greece,” he said. “We support 25 or 30 worldwide investment banks and their insane activities.”
Cut those social programs but keep the war machine fed! God forbid we use the trillions we’ve spent on wars for maintaining infrastructure or education or the social safety net.
yes. that was just one good idea/plan that was resoundingly scuttled by POTUS two-faced Tea Party Obama. I remember that one; there were others similarly crapped on by our so-called “Democratic” POTUS & Congress. Bastards!
IF and it is a big IF, Obama can pass a form of Means Testing for those who really can afford it I see nothing wrong with it. Why not let those who are rich enough to pay a larger co-pay than those living solely on Social Security. I don’t have a co-pay now for my medicare but I am also poor enough to qualify for medicaid to back-up medicare as my second insurance. I’m sure there are millions of Boomers in much better shape than I am. Any more cuts or added costs to my healthcare would make a serious dent in my Ramen Diet.
I didn’t hear enough detail last night to form a real opinion on what the Pres. plans to do with those programs I paid into since the 1960s.
I will be most happy when people start referring to all these ass-hats as traitors because they are all traitors to America….the bankers, the corporate media, the elected numbskulls, the Kochs, the Snyders, the Walkers…….
That is the thin edge of wedge to having rightwingers foam & rant about how Medicare/Medicaid is socialism & welfare. That way lies madness and will almost surely sound the true death knell for this worthwhile program, which is NOT an “entitlement.” As you indicate, we’ve mostly all PAID into it, so that we can get back from it when we need it.
Starting to means-test it will result in conservatives going apoplectic about socialism, and it will just open the door for ending it completely bc of how unfaaaaaiiiiirrrr it is to rich people. Believe me, we don’t want to go there.
If citizens paid into the program, then they should get back from it equal to what they paid in.
Unfortunately it is his party. We’re the ones who don’t have a Democratic Party now. The party is so corrupt that its only hope is a complete expulsion of its leadership. The Democratic Party has to come up with some sort of core values statement that challenges not only the Republicans but the corporations and the media.
Until the Dems once again become champions for civil rights, human rights, economic and social justice they will continue to fall from favor.
Thanks to Obama in less than four years the Dems have gone from being on the verge of complete dominance of the political landscape to being on the verge of complete collapse.
Means-testing is a bad idea because it makes Social Security and Medicare into welfare programs. Studies have repeatedly shown that social welfare programs and institutions have broader public support *and* are more generous when they are universal rather than focused on the poor. And in fact, once means-testing begins it’s likely to be followed by a further tightening of who qualifies in the future. It destroys the notion of a social insurance program and it creates new bureaucracy and paperwork that further discredit public institutions.
I think raising the cap is the obvious first step.
Let’s show Obama’s “can” some of the same love he’s shown us.
… because given the current posture of both Democrats and Republicans in Congress, I have absolutely no faith that whatever did indeed pass, would be within 100 yards of objective fairness. There are simpler fixes to Medicare.
in grossly broad terms -
oligarchs like Pete Petersen simply do not want to pay more in to the system – yes Virginia, this is all truly about some rich guy not wanting to pay a few scheckels more
oh and more broad strokes here: Wall St wants us back to a ‘surplus’ and away from ‘deficits’
Michael Hudson
Agreed.
aha, I was truly looking at the worm’s eye view rather than the bird’s. Thanks, cbl!
add one more thing. The plan is to create a neofeudalism state, so these programs have to go.
Agree 100%. THis ain’t “rocket science”. Idiot legislaturds.
They plan to vacuum up every crumb.
This plan is more evidence that Obama is counting on courting so-called independents and moderate Republicans to win in 2012, while assuming that most of us will simply not muster the intestinal fortitude to vote for another candidate, be it Green, or other. I am hoping he is wrong, because no Democrat should ever be re-elected on a platform of starving Social Security of revenues as a means to boost job creation, while at the same time irresponsibly encouraging people to spend that payroll deduction on consumer goods, rather than saving or paying down debt.
So, of course, the answer is to cut Medicare benefits instead of using the government’s clout to reign in an out of control medical industrial complex. Sounds like a good plan to me — not!
It’s pretty astonishing to me that self-described liberals and progressives are willing to trade a temporary stimulus comprised mostly of tax-cuts for permanent cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.
The irony here is that the majority of Americans oppose cuts to those programs. So essentially the typical liberal blogger is to the right of the average American.
We should be clear here. This is undisguised class warfare in the guise of a jobs program. Both parties are now resolutely in favor of cutting Medicare despite the bulk of the people standing opposed to it. I know many liberals are gun-shy about initiatives and referendums because of the California experience, but I would suggest that a popular vote on Medicare would have more progressive results than anything that the Super-committee, the Obama administration, and Congress will come up with.
If Obama wants to cut Medicare costs, he needs to open it to all Americans and allow drug price negotiation. These two steps alone will do more to make Medicare solvent than any tinkering around the benefits eligibility age or means-testing, which cuts to the core of the program.
He can’t do that, though, without breaking Rahm’s deal with Big Health, Big Insurance, and Big Pharma.
Obama is a Republican in drag and oh what a drag it is.
The “deal” will not be broken.
The real obama wants lil more than to further enrich his wealthy friends.
To him the lives of poor and old people are concerns.
Obama lies while people die.
And it’s not like we the people have any leverage with the insurance companies. Boycott by not paying your premium? Who could risk it.
What the hell can we do?
… People … what would be at least marginally helpful, is to stop permitting the media and officials to call this a tax cut. It is a reduction in the payroll deduction for Social Security Administration programs. It is not a tax cut, it does not affect the amount withheld for either state of federal income tax. It is a withholding reduction, much like reducing your 401K contribution from 10% to 8%. Stop letting Obama get away with his careful “payroll tax reduction” smoke and mirrors to cover up the fact that he is the first President since FDR to cut Social Security revenues on a percentage basis. Period!
At least those deals were cut to limit opposition to the Affordable Care Act. This deal accomplishes nothing left of center.
Obama’s package is harmful for seniors! We can’t swallow this!
As a senior, it scares the heck out of me. It’s already fairly expensive and would hurt if it got worse.
Undisclosed Cave
Tora Bora Hills, Afghanistan
Sept 9, 2011
Osama bin Laden revealed to his followers that not only was he not dead, but that he had just intently examined Obama’s package and found it totally to his liking. “Barack Obama’s package is everything I could’ve hoped for when I was planning the Sept 11 raids. Everything is proceeding according to MY plans. Thanks, Pres. Obama. Your package is quite revealing.”
the difference is that a batshit crazy tea-party loon would be unsuccessful in gutting the SS/Medicare safety net because it would force DC Dems to fight, very much like Walker’s overreach in WI got the Dems and unions fired up to push back.
Just like “only Nixon could go to China”, if Obama gets another term he will succeed in killing off what’s left of the New Deal
Don’t start again.
(love dad)
Plus means testing doesn’t save much money unless it dips way into the middle class enough that folk who are affected by it have to sacrifice. We think of means testing as only affecting those so rich that they wouldn’t even notice it, but that’s not the case. Thus you are absolutely right, Ranjit, it would lead to immense resentment among retired, white exurbanites, not against those who decided to means test but those “lazy good for nothings wanting a free ride I pay for,” in other words it would be a way of fueling the racist divide the right has used since the sixties to align white middle class folk with the rich instead of the poor.
Geez. Hellloooo. Medicare and Social Security are not the same financially. You already lost the “socialism” argument about Medicare long ago. Recipients ARE getting more than they paid in by any measure, especially since the Republican drug plan was instituted, but even before that, because it’s fee-for-service structure feeds the medical industrial complex of profiting from ever more testing, specialists and technology. You’re not going to get anywhere with this argument with anyone that knows anything. Someone has to pay for the increased cost of Medicare if it is not changed, and if it is not changed,it might as well be the more well off. I don’t see any reason for offering back-up links for what I am saying, because it’s clear that you are not into doing homework but merely offering uninformed platitudes.
well said
aaawwwwww, gee, you always harsh our buzz, dad…. ;-)
Yes. It’s quite clear now that you are so much smarter and better informed than me. Got it.
Ok. Fine and as you say. But means-testing Medicare is still not a solution in my opinion because it WILL open to the door to much more whining & complaining about socialism and welfare.
And as someone else just pointed out (which I didn’t include in my prior comment), means-testing has been proven to be a very expensive measure that will end up costing more than what’s saved. I won’t provide links for that because anyone who knows anything about this realizes that this is the case.
And so on…
I’m sitting in the corner thinking about what I did :(
It also has to be said that in retrospect, the debate over the progressive nature of the Affordable Care Act has been settled. I say this as someone who begrudgingly supported it’s passage. Obama’s health care bill is in fact a conservative program in practice. Why? Because it is being used largely as a tool for rolling back Medicare under the notion that seniors will be able to purchase subsidized insurance in the state exchanges. Indeed the administration has explicitly stated this rationale.
In other words, far from being a step towards single-payer, which was already transparently not the case, it is a major shift away from it. It’s akin to passing Bush’s private accounts to Social Security as an addition to the program, and then a couple of years later slashing Social Security because there is already a private sector alternative.
Ok. I agree with you about that, and that is clearly the reason why we have Obama being made to *pose* as a “Democrat.” Otherwise, I see little to no difference between Obama’s “politics” and those of someone such as Christie.
Instead of a WPA, a CETA, or a CCC program for jobs, we get reduced wages, reduced social programs and will pay rent to the banks and to stockbrokers for funds in a public-private infrastructure bank program that does not directly create one job.
I hope you put your dunce cap on… guess I should do the same …
Once again King Chaos opens his mouth and nothing except repub. plans come out. He as much as called his own party idiots in an aim to shame them into supporting him. I believe this is just a ploy to try to appease the voters and convince them of his concern. However, I have yet to see an example where someone cut their income severely and gained financial wellbeing. King Chaos left himself an out through the whole speech, like the little boy covered in mud, it’s not his fault, he was walking by and the mud jumped on him. For the King and his court, way to little and way to late.
Any cuts are really government defunding. At a time when we’re stupidly at war in multiple occupations, cuts to the people or the tax fund are downright unpatriotic to me. I’m unsure how to say it, but seems like we haven’t even tried to use the perceived strengths of the opposition against them.
If ya can’t afford to use it, it’s not care.
Obama to the soon to be retired: We are sorry but we can’t afford your Medicare and Medicaid benefits and we are reneging on them.
Thom Hartmann is gushing now that Obama used the phrase social compact.
Om, you already got it. What Wall Street wants is to get its hands on Social Security funds. Now it’s true that business folk tend to not think beyond this quarter’s profits. But the right wing strategists who work for them do think long term. They’re the ones who know that by hurting SS with CPI, raising the age, means testing and payroll tax holidays that they increase the chances in the long term that the population will switch sides to wanting to privatize it.
Think of it this way, if you’ve watched “The Pillars of the Earth.” It’s not Stephen of Blois who is coming up with the treasonous strategy; it’s his lackey schemer Waleran.
I liked your idea of boycotting the corps that sponsor Dems. Any way to strike back at the machine appeals at a visceral level.
You have had some really good comments over the past few days. Don’t know if you are new, or I just have been on different threads.
I heard his body didn’t show up because Cheney was using it for spare parts. Hard to know what’s true anymore.
;)
Not just the New Deal, he has a special place in his three sizes too small heart for unions and public schools.
*g*
And the rotten excuse we have for a free press – they sure as hell aren’t free, the neolibs pay them pretty well – is there to grease the skids.
Well, yeah. I have no idea who was killed recently in Abbottabad. Coulda been Osama; coulda been anyone. Various rumors have flown around for various years. At this point? Who knows?
One thing’s for sure (and it’s what I was *lamely* trying to get at in my post) is that Osama said words to the effect that he wanted to “bring down the USA.” Well, Obama’s present “package” is certainly yet another piece in the cascading dominos that began with the events on 911 and continue a decade later… the take-down of the US middle/working classes, the end of democracy & capitalism, the blowing up of the US empire… yeah: I think Osama bin Laden, wherever he may be, would be very happy, indeed, with the size of Obama’s package… no snark intended.
Would that someone felt so strongly about the government bailouts of insurers, banks, wall street and other fraud schemes. When the money is going to poor and old, that’s less money in the pockets of people like those who can afford to buy art, eh? :)
Yep, it’s a rent scheme. Can’t afford to pay for fascism in one payment, must have it on installments. :)
here’s a link to a graph showing the difference,
“Reaping more in benefits than paying in taxes” for Medicare vs. Social Security,
it’s from the NYT but I give a link where you can see it without using the the NYT site:
http://dagblog.com/link/generational-divide-colors-debate-over-medicare-s-future-9714#comment-113900
An excerpt from the accompanying article is above that link and you can get the full Times’ article if you have access by clicking on the title.
At this point, this SOB can only hurt us. Every new speech is approached with foreboding. It’s really very scary.
No sh*t. $16trillion recently in secret bailouts of the TBTF banks – courtesy of YOUR tax dollar$$ and mine and Mr. ArtAppraiser. But let’s get our panties in a giant WAD bc seniors & the disabled get a *little* more in Medicare than what they paid in.
Getting really sick ‘n tired of that oooollllldddd song. Wake the eff up, already. Do you *really* believe that you’re going to strike it THAT rich some day, conservatives??? Geez. Buy. a. Clue.
They’ll get their greedy hands on it, but Obama convinced them they needed to go incrementally rather than back the other corporate wing.
the above meant as a reply to #58 onitgoes September 9th, 2011 at 10:03 am.
By the way, current Medicare Part B premiums for recipients ARE ALREADY “means tested.” See
https://questions.medicare.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/2306/session/L2F2LzEvc2lkL2xFVUZhR0Rr Though the difference in premium is small, that rubicon has already been passed.
Thanks for the link. Much appreciated. Don’t disagree with that. Doesn’t go against the point I was making.
Are you similarly upset about the trillion$$$ used to bail out Wall St & the Banks?? Or do you just get “upset” over old people & the disabled getting a *little* more than what they put into the system?
For me, I’m much more concerned about corporate welfare, not to mention the Trillion$$$$ wasted annually on multiple Wars which benefit no one but the mega-rich… but somehow a peon like me is supposed to pay for those Wars.
I don’t mind my money being spent on seniors and disabled people, frankly.
The speech: pappyshow. It costs him nothing to position himself a little bit further left in order to reel in a few votes.
Absolutely. If one didn’t know better, one might suspect ObL was a tool of our oligarchs.
Yes, they are means tested, but thanks for highlighting that. Good info to put out there. And that means testing is very costly and probably costs more than it saves. That’s why any changes to Medicare should be about *expanding* the program, rather than contracting that. Single payer health care would *save* this nation a huge amount of money, rather than paying BigPharma, BigIns & BigHospital CEOs giant salaries for doing not very much.
er, you might want to follow the conversation rather than applying meaning to user names. I was arguing that if Medicare isn’t reformed, it probably should be the case that the more well off will have to pay more. And as per my link above to the Medicare site, that’s already happening.
Apply your ruler to some of the elite’s adventures then after that’s done, maybe we can address welfare to the war machine, financial terrorists and wall street.
Keep your greedy hands off our social contract. :)
As you most likely know, the bin Laden family are long-time very close & good friends of the Bush Family Crime Syndicate. And as you probably also know, the bin Ladens were in the USA on Sept 11 2011, and they were the ONLY ONES who were premitted to FLY on 9/11/01 (or possibly it was 9/12) to get them the heck outta dodge….
Was ObL a tool of the Oligarchs?? Quite possibly. He had a privileged upbringing, much like his good friend, GW Bush. Both born with silver spoons in their mouths, and both pushed into their family’s “businesses.”
I know. He’s probably going to be turning back into a fake progressive over the next 13 months, too, mixing his “spread the wealth around” rhetoric with “we have to cut social security to strengthen it” nonsense.
Down with the Bigs.
Up with Medicare E for everyone.
So, I’m assuming that everyone posting here has taken a few minutes today to contact their congress critters to give them an earful about the Preznut’s apparent intention to cut Medicare.
I did, and I plan to keep the pressure on them going forward.
Second, I’m hoping others are also going to other venues to encourage posters to make contact with Congress. I hit HuffPo several times this morning with the message and a link to a site that provides congressional phone #s and email addresses.
The Prez wants us to engage the Congress, so I say we hit them early and often, and encourage others to do the same.
Join me?
So?
That is what your patron saint would say?
I am supposed to be swayed by someone claiming I can’t follow along, I’ll be the judge of that.
Answer onitgoes question please. I don’t give a flying damn if the well off will pay more. Are you for real?
The problem is that the US healthcare system is so wildly expensive, means testing could only provide a teeny tiny fraction of revenue compared to the projected costs.
Compare that to the effect of transforming it into “welfare for the looter/moocher class”.
Absolutely I plan to join you. I frequently send harsh e-mails to the WH.
seriously. the amount of money WASTED on so-called “health care” insurance, plus BigPharma & BigHosp is astounding. And most peons see little return on their investment. In conservative-world, it’s simply *great* to pay out GIANT premiums, which inure mostly to the benefit of the fat-cats at the top, but geez, expand Medicare??? Then conservatives commence to whining & crying very loudly.
Go figure… I’m so DONE with that crap. It’s hogwash. And don’t tell me about how Team USA has the “greatest” healthcare “in the world.” Yes, there are great things wrought here medically. Just ask Steve Jobs. With no malice to Jobs intended (I know he’s quite ill), but do you REALLY think that the average schlub would’ve gotten the kind of top-knotch, first-rate health care that Jobs did?????? Not on *your* life. Lord only knows but Jobs was probably the recipient of costly organs… and where did they come from, one wonders??? There is a HUGE black market in organ donations, and frankly, most citizens are blissfully ignorant of how that works… but that black market benefits almost solely the very very rich.
So sure, yeah, let’s get our knickers inna bunch bc some seniors & disabled folks get a *little* more than what they put into the system. Cry me a frickin river….
You don’t say? :)
He was actually one of the global overlords that Obama serves, not just a tool?
Damn, we live in crazy times.
Have and will do more. Would be good if we could jam their phones but we seem a lil slow on the uptake right now, need a crystal clear message too.
R U joking (unsure if snark) or did you not know that??
Yes, we certainly do live in crazy times, and frankly, me no like ‘em!
Hey art dude–all you need to do is extend Medicare for all and that will “save” Medicare. Case closed. The HMOs are sucking the system dry, dude.
Jobs basically stole an organ from someone in Memphis (my city.)
http://exiledonline.com/memphis-where-the-oligarchs-eat-their-fellow-americans/
Medicare doesn’t need to be “reformed.” It isn’t going broke. The problem is an out of control for-profit system that values money over people. Medicare for all!!
I suggest you read the Trustees report – Medicare is NOT a program that is socialism with subsidy by the rich.
The only outside funds is the “Congressional Doc Fix” – that moves the payment to providers to a higher level than the program provides, funded by an appropriation from General Funds (also done with the drug benefit if needed). The current for profit industry gets customers by having lists of who will accept say United Health, etc. as payment in full. The compete by each year setting their payment at Medicare rate plus a given percentage increase in that payment rate. Medicare then does the doc fix trying to catch up, and the for profit increase their rate based on the new Medicare rate – and we have out of control Medical inflation. Only Maryland has in place cost controls under Medicare (and all other third party providers).
The fight about socialism is the for profits fighting Maryland like controls in other states – it is not about Medicare.
As to means testing for larger deductibles – the game is to make those that have Medicare into welfare folks so that it is easier to have real death panels that will stop the “doc fix” and any other cost control, moving the program into a world where no health provider will take patients using Medicare to pay.
Thanks! Didn’t know that. Utterly unsurprised.
The black market in organ donations is mostly made up of third world people who either willingly pay to give up their organs (for a pittance) in service to some rich person’s need (and it’s the middle-man, not the doner, who makes big bucks), or third world victims who are killed for their organs (and again, the middleman makes the big bucks).
That black market is a lot bigger than many imagine. I have no idea if Jobs or Dick Cheney benefited from the organ black market, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did.
spot on correct.
To be fair, it’s not just the HMOs. It’s also the for-profit hospitals, radiology companies, lab work companies, etc. There are lots and lots and lots of millionaires riding the US health care gravy train in a constellation of industries.
All the selfish will do is further entrench. There won’t be a lightbulb that goes off in their un-American little heads. What they don’t expect is lefties to just openly ridicule their aynrandian ways.
And Jobs went to Socialized Germany for part of the medical care – the US is not number one – even for the rich.
Yes there is a deductible difference based on income in Part B – the task is to prevent this idea from spreading.
Yep.
BTW, single payer will never happen. The whole system needs to crumble before we get anywhere.
it wasn’t “rahm’s deal” that was cover, it was rahm doing obama’s bidding the entire way
we were had by obama and tried to hide behind rahm as our excuse for why obama was going about it the wrong way.
cover
Isn’t it crazy that people don’t know those things?
BBC has that documentary that al kayda is a complete fabrication of our government, strange times indeed.
Yes, that is also true. It’s a discussion that I have – fruitlessly – with my rightwing fundie family members, who love to beat their chests and crow loudly about how Team USA has the “best health care system in the world!!!! HUZZAH!!! USA USA USA” yadda yadda.
I’ve pointed out that folks like Jobs have gone elsewhere to get some types of treatment, but my conservative family then just changes the subject… don’t want to hear about how commie/socialist Germany may have a better (dreaded) socialized medical system.
Let us not forget that Communist Cuba also has a pretty good health care system for their citizens despite other massive privations. I’m not a huge Fidel-fan, and there’s giant problems in Cuba. But it’s interesting to note that their health care system is generally better than Team USA, which Michael Moore highlighted in his movie Sicko.
This neglects compound interest and is thus useless.
A+
Eh? Hadn’t heard about the Beeb documentary, but I’ve long thought that it was *quite possible* that Al Qaeda was a wholly-owned subsidiary of the CIA (or some other similar spook-group). Certainly there was silly-bugger stuff going on with Al Qaeda & Saudi Arabia, and the Saudi’s, need I mention it, are also HUGE friends of the Bush Crime Syndicate & members of the secretive Carlyle Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Group
As we know well, most citizens know nothing about this crap bc Rush Limbaugh & Fox certainly do NOT discuss it…. not part of the propoganda that they wish the rubes to be brainwashed by. Don’t want some pesky FACTS getting in the way ‘n all….
agree. No love lost on Rahm Emanual, but he was just Obama’s hired shill & lackey. Got paid a lot to screw the base, but it was all at Obama’s (or, more factually, the upper 2%) bidding.
I would suggest spending less time debating fact-immune contrarians and more time ignoring them. Anyone arguing for means-testing Medicare is advocating cutting the program and reducing it’s public support and hence is on the other side of the barricades. They’re not a potential ally. They are in fact the enemy.
Supporting Medicare as it is amounts to a lowest common denominator liberal position. In fact, the genuinely liberal position is to expand it, ideally to all Americans.
Cuba exports doctors, we export killing.
I watched a good documentary on Cuba recently, gave me some hope for what our future could look like, The Power of Community. How Cuba Survived Peak Oil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjCDjmIpGoU
Benedict Obama… yeah, it is nicely descriptive. I think I’ll go with that for a while.
You make a good point, but the only reason why I appear to “argue” with such contrarians is to refute the their b.s. viewpoints, so that others who happen to be reading here will get other information. These contrarians can sound very reasonable on the face of it, so, when I have the time, I am compelled to refute their crap. There are many who lurk & read here, and they are usually looking for real info.
So I think there is a point to engaging in such “discussions” for the value of getting the truth & facts out there. JMHO, of course.
Thanks for link; bookmarked for later viewing.
One good thing Obama did (yes, I believe there is *one*) was raising the restrictions on travel to Cuba. Some work colleagues and I are hoping to travel to Cuba next year; attempting to make it a “helping” visit. so I am trying to learn more about the country.
Gotta run…
Thanks to all for good info this morning. Good luck to us all cuz we’re gonna need it. Keep the faith!
a large plurality of the people of America either rely on one of these programs or are going to rely on one of these programs. Virutally Everyone is going to need social security at some point. Probably if there is any hope left at all (and of course, there may not be) it will be in people who understand whats going on, bending over backwards to explain it to people who dont. however that happens, it HAS to happen.Demonstrations and Blogs are imporatant. Maybe groups like Trumkas AFL-CIO should refuse to give even one cent to political candidates and use that money to take a campaign of advertising and messaging to the air. We know that works because the capitalist ultra right spends so much money on it.Take lectures seminars and workshops around the country. Teach the millions of people who are “on the chopping block” in the name of corporate profit and Barrak Obamas Historicity, that they are under attack. whos attacking them and why, and what they can do to fight back.
Balance ignoring them with exposing them.
They say a few things here and there that are subtle wedges, sound reasonable unless you already have a good immune response.
It’s not their hearts and minds that are the focus. I see some advantage in exposing their weaknesses so that when I am on occasion dueling ideas with people who have an open mind, I know where there be dragons and how to gracefully slay them.
You have a beautiful way with words. Call it Medicare E for everyone. And it’s not “ideally to all Americans”, that’s the only just way to do it. No one should face the loss of their everything they have worked for just to get healthy when they are sick, it’s inhumane, not just a liberal position, it’s a human position, know what I mean?
I wish people would move to impeach this sack of $h!# that got elected by making people believe he cared about the disenfranchisement of millions from health care and let people believe that he was for single payer. What a lying ba$turd.
This is all for his buddies the banksters who will be able to get their hands on the homes and properties of the elderly if they lose their health care which they paid into for a life time while not seeking other avenues of security over the decades.
Impeach. Why wait. Screw Dems, where’s our primary? O’liar says his party won’t like it. Oh yeah like they’ll care, they’re paid to do nothing and not stand up for us. And that’s what they do, right Pelosi, you phony hag.
On am1090 they regularly play a clip from Randi Rhodes that when the Republicans won the 2010 House as they did, they wanted it so they could impeach this President.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Republicans know they couldn’t have a stronger ally in the other corporate party than the big 0.
Next congress, I imagine they might consider impeaching him for giggles but even that’s unlikely.
Neither corporate party serves the people. I can never forgive Pelosi for what she took off the table and I wish I never defended Reid. If the D corporate wing hangs onto the Senate, big if, I think we can count on them to deliver obstruction by traitorously not recalibrating the rules yet again. It’s not just R’s that obstruct progress and it’s not just a small minority of dems as many dems would have people believe.
I have ended up thinking that Obama is much more interested in looking presidential than being President. Still, it might pass. There are some positives in the proposal, and getting any jobs proposal through this Congress would be an achievement. Obama is the lead negotiator, though, so my hopes are modest.
There are a couple of reasons why Medicare spending is increasing including an aging population. The primary driver of Medicare spending is the cost of medical care from for-profit providers. If the US spent the same per person on health care as other advanced capitalist countries, e.g., Canada, then the US would have future budget surpluses, not deficits and there would be no reason to reduce Medicare benefits.
That was a campaign speech. Who still believes Obama is interested in jobs?
Austin Frakt in
Memo to the Super-committee outlines some tweaks that make sense. I would add some strong anti-trust language with regard to the pharmaceutical, medical supply, medical device, and medical equipment industries.
IPAB is Independent Payment Advisory Board (a technocratic board for taking the payment levels out of Congressional wrangling).
ACO is Accountable Care Organization, in which payment is for “results” regardless of whether the billing is per capita or fee-for-service.
At this point the “some people in my party…” foil ceases to anger me. It’s increasingly about what the President does, not what he says.
So = onitgoes argued that there should be no means testing with Medicare because “they” can call it a welfare program.
I presented the point that somebody’s got to pay for it, as unlike with Social Security there’s more going out than coming in and that will get worse as the boomers access it.
Then I also pointed out that Part B is already being means tested, so the time to make the argument to stay away from means testing has already passed.
As for your presumption about me knowing what rich people want. Actually, I’d venture a guess that many of the uber-rich would like to see Medicare stay exactly as it is for decades to come, paying more and more out than it gets in, paying for things like nanosurgery for everyone’s lower back, whether it works or not, and every new prostate drug, whether it works or not, because doing that will assure continued financial health for them, and making Medicare more responsible about what it approves might be a disaster for the biotech stock holdings.
The guy is pure evil.
Thanks for the link. I had no idea. (thanks, corporate media, for always keeping us in the dark)
Wonder what shape Medicare would be in if Baucus hadn’t had Medicare for all supporters dragged away in handcuffs.. What if every dollar spent on private insurance was going in to Medicare for all?
Agreed. But the left should at least be calling it what it is, under the new plan, an almost 31% reduction in Social Security revenues. 2% from employee and 2% from employer, of the 12.4% total.
You just don’t get it.
You are further entrenching and can’t help yourself. It’s just science, how your brain works.
Stop playing word games and find yourself some principles that are not greed based because that’s what it appears you have embraced. Prove me wrong and actually confront what onitgoes and I have said instead of building a stronger wall, that is, if you really intend to dialogue and overcome your programing though I sincerely have my doubts it’s possible.
and thats not gonna happen until private money is completely taken out of presidential politics!
Absolutely. Obama is mining social security.
Looks like the DLC/Obama Fucks America is sending out “volunteers” to educate us retards about Dear Leader’s glorious plan to “save” Social Security and Medicare because Social Security and Medicare are the greatest threat this country is facing.
Until private money is taken out of politics, politicians need to raise ungodly amounts of it in order to get elected. Where do you suppose they get it from? Grandma? Those “some in my party” that won’t like medicare cuts? They get it from guys like the Koch brothers, corporations like big banks, big insurance companies, wall street, big oil etc… When you give the kinda money they give to politicians, you own them! This BS about govenment “of the people, for the people and by the people” is fantasy! Just cause Obama is black and calls himself a Dem, don’t get it twisted. He is just another low life, double takin, no conscience, scumbag politican.
Campaign finance reform and term limits are the ONLY things that will save us from ruin.
Oh, and one other thing, NO MORE rehashes of old TV shows.
Call me naive, but, doesn’t reducing SS revenues hurt the program???? I got a C- in political science.
The law that does the one year 2% payroll tax reduction requires a payment to SS from General Funds to make up for the lost revenue.
So SS finances are unchanged.
“We have to reform Medicare to strengthen it.”
One of the oldest political lies there are: We have to destroy the village to save it. Indeed.
Ding!
When are “WE the People” going to create a REAL opposition People’s Movement to the $$$ party and both its wings? If this isn’t the time then all were going to get is more of this Bullshit excuse for leadership.
Facilitating the theft of SS is one of the reasons I think Obama will get a second term.
That is so evil you’re probably right.
What can we do to de-elect this nightmare?
Which ties deficit to social security. Something that should not be. That very much changes the “finances”.
Don’t accept excuses, don’t accept their “leadership”, declare independence now.
Don’t touch my SS, bastards!
Obama is all about bullsh*t, straw men, and false choices. Why didn’t he address Medicare costs during HCR if it was such a big issue? Same, same sh*t different day.
“I have ended up thinking that Obama is much more interested in looking presidential than being President.”
I suspect that is the primary responsibility of all of them since at least Reagan and perhaps since JFK.
What do you mean?
Precisely.
… and what happens when we don’t have General Funds to pay for the reimbursement?
I actually disagree. I believe he is actually trying to get things done. The wrong things, which is why his presidency is so morbidly sad.
I suspect the solution is not amenable to elections. Corporate bribery funding of candidates and TV propaganda has seen to that. If US citizens actually elected representatives, such would not be the case. However, there are many other possibilities that involve not participating, agreement resistance, non-violent protest, laughter, etc.
You may be right. I just meant that looking good on TV is the essential ingredient in becoming President.
It’s a genius plan. Evil genius anyway.
Is there room on Mount Rushmore for a guy who creates millions more medical indigents
Instead of his head, put Obama’s ass on Rushmore so he gets to moon America for posterity.
OT a bit–are the Sioux still claiming Mt. Rushmore as theirs? They always said they’d blow it up if they got their hands on it.
Obama is robbing old people for the endless wars of the elite. He is the most evil and base person alive. He lied to us about everything. It is beyond creepy how sweet he acts and heartless he really is. Simple people falling for it even as they struggle and live without real health care that they’ve paid for. In a world where polluting is continually excused. Of course they don’t want to provide health care to the same people they are poisoning. Evil. Pure Evil.
Im sure the elite love him beyond compare.
I should know better than to look at this site, but I was curious to see what the way-far left was thinking about Obama’s presidency… Holy crap! Let me ask – how many of you voted for Ralph Nader in 2000? How many think Dennis Kucinich is the model for what you want the president to be? Just asking, because you do realize that these guys would be lucky to get 10% of the vote in a straight-up contest with Rick Perry, right? Basically, you’re asking the president to be a rigid left-wing ideologue, at a time when the voting public wants a centrist. You should do yourselves a favor, and spend a couple minutes watching the right-wing propaganda on Fox News, and realize that THAT is the alternative.
Every day brings new outrages.
Hey, Memphis is my hometown as well.
Great city in many ways, not so great in other ways.
Jon, this is on politico.
lol…
every post you say the same thing!