At the beginning of Day 3 of the government’s case against Dan Choi, the defense filed a motion to compel production of certain documents. Among them was a Secret Service email sent the day before Choi’s arrest on November 15, 2010 for chaining himself to the fence of the White House with 12 others in order to protest Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.
Defense attorneys Robert Feldman and Norman Kent asserted that there was a coordinated effort among federal agencies to use the power of the government to single out Choi and persecute him in order to silence him. Judge John Facciola decided in favor of the defense, saying that he believed a prima facie case had been made that the government was engaging in “vindictive prosecution” of Choi.
Assistant US Attorney Angela George asked for a recess while she conferred with her supervisors at the Department of Justice. Following a 2 hour break, the trial resumed. There were four Supervising US Attorneys present as George informed the Judge that she was filing a writ of mandamus to prevent him from allowing Choi’s attorneys to present a defense of “selective prosecution” or “vindictive prosecution.”
TRANSCRIPT:
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Criminal Case No. 10-739M-11 v. DANIEL CHOI, Defendant, Wednesday, August 31, 2011
TRANSCRIPT OF BENCH TRIAL BEFORE THE HONORABLE JOHN M. FACCIOLA UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE
APPEARANCES: For the Government: Angela S. George, AUSA. For the Defendant: Robert J. Feldman, Esquire and Norman Elliott Kent, Esquire
Angela George for the government. Robert Feldman and Norman E. Kent for the defendant. This is a bench trial, day three.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: You may proceed.
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, the government is requesting if the Court could indulge the government a little bit more. The Court was very patient with the government and explained or tried to explain to the government the issues regarding the selective prosecution and vindictive prosecution.
At this point in time, the government is going to ask a question of clarification at this point. Is the Court considering those subjects as a theory of defense, allowing the defense to proceed as if it is a theory of defense? Or will the Court consider a motion to dismiss at the end of the defense’s case?
JUDGE FACCIOLA: It is the Court’s intention to permit the subpoena to issue and to consider what objection if any the United States may make on behalf of entities subpoenaed. It is further the Court’s intention to permit the defense and you to present whatever evidence you wish that is relevant to the issue as follows.
The issue presented by the testimony of the defendant yesterday in my view creates a prima facie case for the proposition that the difference in the manner in which he was prosecuted for his behavior in November as opposed to his behavior in March and April would permit the inference that that difference was a function of the nature of his speech or what he said.
It would then follow that the difference in treatment would (a) violate the due process clause because it is vindictive; and (b) independently constitute a violation of the First Amendment because it is predicated on his speech. I, therefore, will permit both sides to elicit evidence as to the difference in his treatment on those three occasions.
MS. GEORGE: Please tell me if I’m characterizing the Court’s information improperly. So is the defense going to be allowed to pursue that as a theory of defense?
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Yes. It already has, the defendant has so testified. The defendant said you treated me differently as a function of what I said. That is, when I said X, Y and Z and behaved myself in a certain way, you treated me one way. When, in November, I did just about the same thing — that is a question of dispute, but anyway prima facie — he said, when I did the same thing, you treated me differently. The motivation for the difference in treatment had to do with what I said.
First, you violated my rights under the due process clause because you treated me differently without a legitimate justification that would stand analysis under the due process clause which, as far as the federal government goes, since the decision in Bolling versus Sharp includes equal protection.
So, the second thing he is saying is that your prosecution of me in November was vindictive. It was different. And there is no rational reason for you to do it.
I submit, he says, I submit that the real reason is, by then, you were offended by the nature of what I was saying, by my speech. Therefore, by prosecuting me in a different way, you punish me for exercising my First Amendment right. Therefore, that is also a second violation of the Constitution of the United States.
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, respectfully the government disagrees with the fact that the defense should be allowed to pursue that subject as a defense. Under United States versus Armstrong and a D.C. Circuit case — Court’s indulgence. U.S. versus Washington which also cites the United States versus Armstrong, the Supreme Court in that case states that selective prosecution and vindictive prosecution is similar, is not a theory of defense. It should not go to the merits of the case. And in that situation, it should be handled pretrial. As I mentioned earlier –
MR. KENT: May I reply, Your Honor?
JUDGE FACCIOLA: No, you may not because I’d like to say, first of all, I am in this case wearing two hats that I always wear when I’m the finder of fact. I’m wearing the hat of the finder of fact, what happened here and have you established the defendant’s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I am also handling the legal hat on which I am compelled to rule on the issues of law that emerge.
There has arisen an issue of law. It involves the presentation of evidence so the record may be complete as to that issue of law. I don’t understand how anyone is, how you in any way have been prejudiced since there is no jury present; whether I consider those issues now or later is of little moment.
Moreover, I have already invited you and counsel for the defendant to do supplemental briefs after the trial which of course may address the insufficiency of the defense.
But that issue ripens and becomes worthy of adjudication after there is a factual record developed.
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, that’s the very point, that the government is prejudiced at this point in time, given that the defense will be proceeding with a theory, proceeding with it as a theory of defense because the claim against the government is the government — there was some constitutional infirmity in the decision that the government made to prosecute the defendant.
We at this point in time must investigate whether that occurred, interview witnesses, find out the result of other prosecutions in order to present that evidence. Furthermore, the case law says that it should be done in a separate hearing. And if the Court concludes that that is the case, the case should be dismissed. If not, that’s the situation. So the government disagrees with the Court with regard to its interpretation of the law, respectfully of course.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: In the ordinary case where a jury is about to be impaneled, it would be good sense, consummate good sense that the issue of vindictive prosecution is treated beforehand because, obviously, if it is resolved in the defendant’s favor, there is nothing to try.
Conversely, if the Court concludes there is a vindictive prosecution and doesn’t permit the case to go forward, the government could appeal. In this case, it is true that we only became aware, you only became aware of the argument that would be made either with your phone call with counsel for the defendant or which you spoke to in your motion.
By the same token, you could have at that point asked me, because selective prosecution was raised, to continue the proceeding so that issue could be addressed. But we all went forward. I don’t know how else we could have done what we did.
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, let me address a couple points the Court just made. First, for the record, the first time vindictive prosecution has been raised was today. In the phone call on August 25, 2011, where the Court and Mr. Feldman–
JUDGE FACCIOLA: I readily concede that — I don’t know if question was raised. The question was sharpened at least in my mind. And I only began to understand the nature of the claim being made. When I heard the defendant’s testimony, that sharpened in my mind what he was saying. And it was only then that I really began to understand that he was saying that there was a radical difference in the way I was treated. And that radical difference is a function, not of any justifiable reason, but of violations of my rights. So now we must address that issue.
MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. Just one more matter for the record.
The government preserved its position on the issue of selective prosecution when it filed a motion in limine. Mr. Feldman mentioned that in the August 25th phone call. Well, actually he didn’t mention it. The Court summarized it for him.
Pursuant to that conversation, the government began to research the issue. Mr. Feldman or any of his defense counsel, Anne Wilcox, Mr. Goldstone, Mr. Feldman, Mr. Kent, Mr. Lynn, Ms. Kurland, no one has ever filed a written motion stating to the Court specifically what they are claiming.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: I know but I cannot, I cannot, and perhaps — I know of no other way to do it but to confront the issue that has arisen. I cannot pretend it did not arise. It did arise out of the witness’ own mouth.
Let me ask you this. Do you wish me to stop what I’m doing so that you can seek mandamus?
MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. At this point, we are going to move to seek a Petition for Writ of Mandamus at this time and ask the Court to stay the proceeding.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: I will, in courtesy to the Court of Appeals, do that unless counsel gives me some reason. You appreciate that jeopardy has attached. Right?
MS. GEORGE: Yes, I do, Your Honor.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Now, if jeopardy has attached and, therefore, if you don’t proceed and — Well, let me ask you. You are going to seek mandamus. And if mandamus is denied, you are going to go forward or are you going to dismiss this action?
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, I have not discussed this with my supervisors. But government believes we have sufficient evidence to prove the defendant guilty. So, without discussing it further, I would have to say no.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: You may or may not. But what you cannot do is convict him in a manner that offends his constitutional rights. It is my job to figure out whether that has occurred.
MS. GEORGE: The government does not disagree with that, Your Honor. I think the government and the Court has a disagreement regarding how that should be considered, and at what point in time.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: This is for the Court of Appeals so it is none of my business. But so I understand your position, your position is going to be that I abused my discretion by what? Permitting the defendant to testify when I did not consider the question of selective prosecution prior to the trial, so you’ve lost your right to appeal from that determination?
MS. GEORGE: No, our position at this point in time is that the issue of selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution should be considered pretrial in a separate hearing and should be resolved after discovery is turned over. And if it is found that we selectively prosecuted the case, then it should be dismissed.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: It should be dismissed if you — so, you are not seeking that I dismiss it now, are you?
MS. GEORGE: No, the government is not requesting that.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Thank you, Ms. George.
Mr. Kent?
MR. KENT: I’ll try to respond point by point. I just don’t think Ms. George gets it. This Court has done nothing but allow the defendant a bite at the apple and an opportunity to present either selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution as a defense. You have done nothing more than allow us to elicit testimony from the witnesses that might be illustrative of us making such a claim.
That is all the Court has done thus far. And as a consequence, the U.S. Attorney has interrupted this trial process for an hour for an extended discussion with her superiors. And then come back again and argued with the Court again, saying you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong.
It almost creates, when we do write this supplemental brief, an argument for the defense to advocate the position from Shakespearian law that: me thinks he doest protest too much. That the government is so obsessed about inhibiting the defendant’s expressive rights to even advocate a defense that they don’t even want to let you argue it.
She is asking now for a petition for a Writ of Mandamus, suspend the proceedings so she can appeal an interlocutory ruling of the United States Magistrate. I don’t think any Court of Appeals will allow it.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Let’s take first things first. Do we all agree that in courtesy to the Court of Appeals I should suspend so she can file the Writ, or are you gentlemen saying jeopardy having attached, I should dismiss this case if she’s–
MR. KENT: She just said I haven’t had a chance to discuss–
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Why don’t I do this? Would you please take 10 minutes to talk so he understands what you just said.
MR. KENT: Thank you, Your Honor. That is what she is asking for. She is asking to suspend the proceedings to go to the Court of Appeals.
MR. FELDMAN: 48(b) of the criminal rules, you can consider at your leisure and your break, please. Thank you, sir.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Thank you.
(A brief recess was taken.)
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Have you had an opportunity talk with your client?
MR. KENT: Your Honor, it is the defendant’s position that what the government is seeking essentially is a non-file appeal of the trial order of the United States District Court Magistrate after double jeopardy has attached as to the defendant when and where the defendant’s lawyers have encumbered enormous expense and time in traveling from New York and Florida to try this case. And there is nothing about the judge’s ruling that is so inhibitive or prejudicial to the prosecution that it would impede its ability to complete this case.
And we do not want any delay because as to the defendant himself, who is the person on trial, whose constitutional rights are afforded and the ones we most need to protect, he has an application for readmission to the United States military that may be resolved as soon as September 20. So we don’t abide by the government’s request. We humbly respect whatever Court order, whatever the Court wants to do, of course we’ll abide by it obviously. And we just don’t want to put on the record that we stipulate to anything the government is asking for and Mr. Feldman wants to add–
MR. FELDMAN: Mr. Feldman is talking now, with the Court’s permission. We don’t waive 48(b)3.
MR. KENT: And we defer to the Court.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: All right.
Ms. George. What is your position?
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, the government would like to clarify what the Court stated earlier. The Court stated –
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Why do I need you to clarify me? If you want to clarify what you said, that’s fine. But I find it somewhat insulting that you are clarifying what I’ve said.
Ms. George, I have made every effort to be as clear as humanly possible. What was unclear about what I have said? You fish or you cut bait. You want to take mandamus, say so.
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, we just to be clear, we just want the record to be clear what the Court’s intention is with regard to the procedures and this issue and the case.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Please speak to it.
MS. GEORGE: Okay. I just want to know if the Court is considering the issue of selective prosecution/vindictive prosecution as a theory of the defense or will the Court–
JUDGE FACCIOLA: I decline to answer that question on the ground that I have answered it innumerable times. I have explained to you — once again, the defendant during his testimony yesterday explained to us that he did engage in certain behavior in March. He engaged in similar behavior in April. He engaged in what he believed was similar behavior in November. In March and April he was treated in a certain way. In November, he was treated much more harshly in his view and he insists that that was done vindictively. It was done to single him out and to punish him for the exercise of his First Amendment rights.
That is not selective prosecution in the traditional way. But is articulated by reference to the Fifth and 14th Amendments where there is an issue whether there is a different treatment among people who fall within a protected class. So that all the people who are of a particular race are treated one way and all the people of a different race are treated another way is a more subtle application of the principles of equality of treatment guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.
Under that principle, it is impermissible for the United States to differentiate among people and the manner in which it prosecutes them on the basis of the speech they have stated.
The defendant’s position is: I said something in March, I said something in April and I said something in November. The reason I was treated in November differently from the March and April is, by November, I began to offend the United States by what I was saying to the point that they treated me differently; and therefore, my rights under the First Amendment and the Fifth Amendment were violated.
Now whether you call that selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution or Bermuda onions is of little moment to me. What I’ve tried to do is articulate the constitutional basis that underlies the defense. And that constitutional basis is that it is impermissible for the Government of the United States to treat people differently on the basis of what they have said.
MS. GEORGE: Yes. And the government understands the gravelment of the issue. The government is trying to ascertain the procedures that the Court is going to employ in order to resolve the issue.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Here is where I think we are. If you do not wish to go forward, the defendant is going to move under Rule 48 that there has been an unnecessary delay in this prosecution, that jeopardizes him. I will hear both parties at that motion.
If that motion is denied, I will be obliged, I believe in courtesy to the Court of Appeals, to continue this matter for a certain number of days to permit you to perfect a Writ of Mandamus to the Court of Appeals.
Now, on the question presented I think is, I’ll hear counsel as to this. As I understand, Mr. Kent, your position is that jeopardy has attached. And the defendant, having commenced the trial, is entitled to have it completed.
MR. KENT: I’m sure even the Court would agree on that, that the trial has commenced. I think it goes without stating that the Court is acting in a dual capacity. Having been a traffic judge for 10 years, I know what that is like. I have to elicit the facts from the witnesses but I also have to be a finder of fact. And jeopardy has attached, absolutely, that’s our position. The first witness has been sworn in.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: There is no question, I don’t think anybody in their right mind could suggest that jeopardy is not attached. Of course it is. But your position is to move to dismiss?
MR. KENT: Yes.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Let’s hear Ms. George as to that.
Ms. George, a motion has been made to dismiss on the grounds that there has been an unnecessary delay in the conclusion of this matter under Rule 48(b) of the Rules of Criminal Procedure.
MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, the government is not moving to dismiss the case.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: No, they are.
MS. GEORGE: The government would oppose a dismissal at this time and proceed with the petition–
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Just a question of neatness, I don’t know how your position is affected whether or not I dismiss it. You still have mandamus. And the abuse of discretion would be to dismiss it so the Court of Appeals would then reinstate the prosecution. And then I supposed the issue of jeopardy would attach.
But if the Court of Appeals, if you take me up on mandamus and you say Facciola abused his discretion and committed reversible error by permitting the lieutenant to assert a defense on the witness stand and not resolving it prior to trial pursuant to a motion in limine, and I have dismissed the matter, your prayer for relief will be, would not be to reinstate the prosecution and we would begin where we left off; is that right?
MS. GEORGE: Yes, not considering vindictive prosecution –
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Does it make any difference whether or not I dismiss? I don’t see the difference. Am I missing something?
MS. GEORGE: Well, the government can’t appeal a dismissal at this point in time, Your Honor.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: But if Facciola were, over your objection, to dismiss it, that would also be subject to mandamus, wouldn’t it? It just makes for somewhat cleaner record from your point of view, doesn’t it?
MS. GEORGE: No, a dismissal, if I’m incorrect, Your Honor, I’m incorrect. I believe that’s a final order . So that we would not be able to appeal at this point in time. But right now, there is no final order.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: That’s the point. You are not taking your appeal. You are taking mandamus which is an extraordinary writ. You are saying Facciola’s dismissal was error; and it was error because the ground he gave, that we had not concluded the case without a necessary day was error. He made that error because he occasioned the error by permitting the defense to raise a claim of vindictive prosecution at the trial. So mandamus, it seems to me, speaks to both of the things I did. It may not amount to a hill of beans but I just want to say I’m not so certain I see the big difference. Correct me if I’m wrong.
MS. GEORGE: The mandamus, Your Honor, is related to the fact that the government disagrees with the Court regarding an issue of law. So at this point in time, there is no final order in reference to that. So, that the motion to dismiss should be considered after that point in time.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: I will deny the motion to dismiss which will also give Lt. Choi an equal right to mandamus because he will claim that jeopardy has attached and that makes for a neater record. I will as a courtesy to the Court of Appeals continue this matter for 10 days within which for you seek your writ of mandamus.
MS. GEORGE: Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: That’s over the defendant’s objection, over Lt. Choi’s application.
All right. Does everybody have the record they want?
MR. FELDMAN: Yes, Your Honor, thank you.
MR. KENT: The defense will supplement its motion to dismiss with our written motion.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: The minute she files that petition, I’m afraid I lose jurisdiction over the subject matter so we’ll have to play–
MR. KENT: But as I understand the Court’s ruling, it is giving the United States 10 days to file its petition for Writ of Mandamus. At which time, the court trial is now suspended and all witnesses may be excused.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Yes, we’re in that status. I suspect, I supposed, well let’s see what happens. In those 10 days, they don’t file a Petition for Mandamus, we’ll go from there.
MR. KENT: Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. FELDMAN: Good evening, Sir.
JUDGE FACCIOLA: Thank you.
(Feldman leaves the courtroom, but the Judge stays at the bench then calls for Feldman to return)
JUDGE FACCIOLA (stands, to Feldman and Kent): I just want to thank everybody on the record for their excellent presentations. It has been an honor to preside over this case.
MR. FELDMAN: The honor is ours, Your Honor.
(Whereupon, at 2:36 P.M., the hearing concluded.)




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Simply stunning Jane!
For this person of Irish ancestry for whom the gift of gab is considered a mere trifle, I’m at a loss for words.
I wish Text-to-Speech tech was good enough to render this dramatically.
Ms. George, very cool customer. I wish she was on our side.
Oh well, blindness also strikes the talented.
ohmystars, that judge had to be exasperated by the doj twit’s denseness. i bet his jaw muscles were twitching and he was working hard at not eye-rolling every time she fake failed to understand what he was saying
I think the judge is being polite. There’s nothing “somewhat” about it.
Bermuda onions!!!
You’re not serious, are you?
George is an unparalleled idiot. She had to bring four supervisors with her to get through this afternoon’s segment of the trial. Clearly they don’t trust her to handle this thing on her own anymore.
Who could have expected that Eric Holder would run the DOJ like a banana republic?
Just catching up with this update.
Thank the stars! Judge understands exactly what George and her band of lawless cretins are trying to do!
So she now has 10 days to get a writ. That is normally suppose to happen in a higher court with Judge Focciola, Choi, and his attorney’s present. The higher court has to show PROOF that Judge Focciola wronged this hearing and trial along with both parties–prosecution and defendant.
May I suggest that you brush up on your text. I know that above ends up as a lot of speech, but slow reading and thinking will help.
George is showing plainly that she nor her supervisors want to allow due process. I don’t want her on my side–EVER!
Thank you Jane , you know I love you.
Thank you Lt.Choi, you know I love you too.
“MS. GEORGE: No, our position at this point in time is that the issue of selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution should be considered pretrial in a separate hearing and should be resolved after discovery is turned over. And if it is found that we selectively prosecuted the case, then it should be dismissed.”
You see, she showed all her cards. If the court finds that the government is selectively prosecuting they just want it to go away!
If I were the judge I’d seek a restraining order to keep Angela George 100 yards from any court house in the USA.
What’s all this talk about a writ of Matt Damon’s. If Matt Damon wrote a writ, I want to read it. And if Ms. George is a fan of Matt Damon’s, how bad could she be? (Or is she just pretending to be a fan so she’ll keep her job in his administration?)
Thank you, Jane.
Judge John Facciola is one very very patient human being and a judge of considerable character and finely considered restraint.
His bowties may often look like butterflies, but one imagines that being on the receiving end of his stinging “clarifications” and well-honed decisions must be more than a wee bit like receiving Muhammad ali’s full and direct “attentions”.
Ms. George, Firedo, is not a “very cool customer”, she is well out of her “league” and transparently simple-minded if she “believes” that she has put anything “over” on Judge Facciola.
Peasant Party has made this clear @11 and one suspects that bmaz is quite correct that Judge Royce Lamberth will not look at all kindly on the DoJ’s writ of mandamus … nor does one imagine that he will long mull it over.
Utterly incredible, the haughty behavior of Assistant US Attorney Angela George, her “superiors” at DoJ, Attorney General Eric Holder, and President Barack Obama. None of whom seem to have the slightest recognition of what they have now, beyond reason and doubt, initiated, nor the slightest understanding of the consequence which shall ensue …
DW
“Bermuda onions”, lol. I like this judge.
This will go down in history.
Dan Choi will beat Obama twice. The 1st when he forced the president to repeal DADT, and second when DOJ will be forced to dismiss this case.
Doesn’t the “everybody” in Judge Facciola’s last comment include Ms. George?
Why yes, oldgold, it does.
Oldgold, you have told me that you are an attorney; presumably, you have been before judges, in an offical capacity as an officer of the court. Do you imagine, having read the transcript, that Judge Facciola is really impressed with Ms. George or do you consider that she has behaved with considerable disdain and presented him with a case that he considers rather important and significant, based ON her behaviors and motions, as representative of the position of the government?
I have the heard, already, the perspectives of several attorneys whom I have considerable respect for and would appreciate hearing, more precisely, and respectfully, what your “take” on this transcript and case might be.
DW
Indeed.
Jane, I may not be reading the transcript or your prior post correctly, but it seems to me that what got George so worked up (and led to the presence of her 4 supervisors) was the issue of the judge’s subpoena of evidence of the collusion among various government agencies before the protest took place. If I understand your previous post correctly, the government had information about the protest before it took place that had not been publicly disclosed at that time.
I suspect that the reason George would have preferred having this issue come up in pre-trial was so that the government could hide behind the skirt of “state secrets”. I suspect the government collusion was predicated on information gathered illegally, i.e., spying on American citizens without a warrant. And the last thing DOJ wants to see is evidence of that presented in open court.
I suspect in her zealous prosecution of Choi, George opened a big can of worms and now she and her supervisors are trying to find a way to put the lid back on that can.
Of course, I may have misunderstood either your prior post or the transcripts. So please feel free to let me know if I am mistaken in my suspicions here : )
phred, so glad to see you posting here.
Your “take” is most interesting and I had wondered about it earlier.
It does seem that the feds want this case to either go their way or go away.
DW
My take is that it is a mistake to make too much of bench talk.
Meanwhile, Dan Choi is put in limbo for another 10 days. This has nothing to do with law or justice, just pure lust for power. They just keep proving that they have control over any ones live they choose (Guantanamo,Bradley Manning,etc.etc.)to destroy.Heil, mein Führer!
This is bananas! B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
It’s incomprehensible to think the DOJ can’t see the mistake they are making here.
Angela George! Put down the shovel! Step away from the digging implement!
It seems it would be within Feldman’s scope to dig into the report of how Secret Service was privy to secret communiques between the protestors? Will he ask for the name of the protestor who leaked? Or will he ask for the government to hand over surveillance records that tipped them off?
I think such requests may well be within the boundaries of a good faith discovery effort toward demonstrating to the court Dan Choi was a targeted person of interest.
The government may not want to hand that information over, which may explain why it took five US Attorneys to cover the case this afternoon. For a disorderly conduct/traffic blocking offense.
Thank you, oldgold. I appreciate your comment. Though the bench talk is still a part of the transcript … and, from my perspective, rather illuminating in its own way.
DW
bmaz makes this comment at EW’s place, Clarknt67:
August 31, 2011 at 11:57 (PM)
“By the way, I will add that I see about no way Royce Lamberth would want any part of an interlocutory whiny appeal of a freaking misdemeanor bench (i.e. non-jury) trial. If he does anything but bounce it back to Facciola I will eat several hats. Lamberth was also a long time JAG, I think he would sympathize with Choi a little.”
DW
“of” should be “on a freaking …”
DW
That is just hilarious.
Dream on. You would have to have a very evolved fantasy life to read the transcript and think that was even remotely possible, but he left no doubt that he was specifically and pointedly not addressing her.
One gathers from the transcript, Jane, that Facciola did not include Ms. George, but I wonder if he was not somehow pleased that she had presented the government case so very perfectly “well”, from his perspective.
Appreciated your first person account very much.
And I think that very soon Dan Choi will have cause for genuine celebration.
DW
[emphasis added.]
Do you even bother to read? Fercryingoutloud, you climb to some perspective that Facciola is pleased? On what limb?
Yes. Though the judge specifically cited Dan’s testimony in making his determination, and that is why he approved the motion by the defense to compel the documents.
The illegal spying was very much on everyone’s minds though. A lot of stuff had not been presented that goes to that, though I think Jim Pietrangelo’s testimony mentioned some of it. It was not anything that could be confirmed until the secret service email came to light. But that was specifically why some were pushing very, very hard for that motion to compel, which as you note was the thing that made the DoJ wig out.
While the judge was ripshit about George personally, I think he did as DW says rely on testimony she elicited from Dan in making his determination.
She was just fucking with dan and making him go over each arrest in painful and repetitious detail for hours. Jim too. She was determined to show a pattern to their behavior. The defense certainly wasn’t interested in it.
Kind of hard to argue the judge let inappropriate testimony in when it was in response to her questions, huh? Good luck with that Eric Holder — or whatever narcissistic, micromanaging feeble legal mind is giving the DoJ their petty, thin skinned and vindictive marching orders with the intention of abusing the government’s authority to humiliate the president’s liberal critics.
I just scratch my head over and over wondering who that might be.
Kelly, Facciola is not pleased with what has been done to Lt. Choi, but I imagine that he is not unhappy with Ms. George’s churlish behavior, for it allows him to rule very clearly regarding the government’s “position”, when that time comes. And come it shall, as I think the evidence and the sense of things in the courtroom today have clearly indicated.
Lamberth will send the case back to Facciola to proceed as he sees fit.
DW
These clowns would have to be about 500% more principled to warrant the epithet “nixonian.”
That’s the point though – smile as the bait hits the trap.
Facciola could give a shit since George got her questions in. He’s all “Welcome to my parlor,
said the spider to the flyjerk.”LOL!!!
I can but agree.
Jane, it has been a true pleasure conversing with you, today.
We are witness to monumental change, the pillars are shifting, just as the earth shook mere days ago.
;~DW
Yes.
;~DW
At a high price, my friend. Very high price.
Sadly.
Yes, but in Dan Choi we see the emergence of new and principled leadership.
Frankly, genuine progress demands a stiff price when tyranny holds sway.
However, tyranny, when it overplays its hand, inevitably begins its own downfall and destruction.
The courage and principle which Dan, you and others have called to the fore is both ready and able to proceed.
I thank you, Jane, and Dan and all who have served as example in the only way that matters … not with your words, but with your persons, your bodies, your selves …
DW
I have not done any criminal law in a while, but one wonders whether the advance information might have any exculpatory evidence in it that would have required the DOJ to provide it, gratis and unsolicited, up front?
Two snaps! Definitely my phrase of the week
This entire episode does indeed seem to reek of DOJ’s panic over unlawful methods of gathering information that inadvertently came to light. Since they would have a difficult time making a credible case of national security to justify the warrantless wiretapping/email capturing that is pretty clearly the elephant in the living room here, they are acting perhaps less out of petty vindictiveness than out of desperation to buy time so they can think of a strategy to deny/shred their way out of this turkey.
Either way, it’s clear that from at least Holder on down, they’re in deep doodoo. It’s one of those “oh shit” moments that, after you’ve been around a while you learn to recognize in the machinations of people like the low-level George that get stuck with the mess.
OK, maybe the vindictiveness part still plays in, or they never would have gotten themselves into this mess.
Three cheers for Robert J. Feldman, Esquire and Norman Elliott Kent, Esquire.
And many thanks, Jane, for posting the transcript. This hearing would have been gold to witness. AUSA George seems to be out of her depth. And the embarrassment of having her supervisors come down to sit in silent support — really meant to intimidate the judge — must make her smart. She deserves the agita.
Anybody know the chain of command that this case has been working under at DOJ? This seems like such an sterling example of a misuse of prosecutorial discretion. Who gave the green-light to this? Where’s the entrenching tool?
er…should read “abuse of prosecutorial discretion”; not “misuse”. Emphasis added.
Thanks Jane. I noticed that the judge relied entirely on Dan’s testimony in his argument with George, but that email was clearly the elephant in the room.
This has the potential to blow open the abusive application of the USA PATRIOT Act and all the magical pixie dust sprinkled throughout the executive branch. It will be interesting to see what happens with the writ and the bench trial.
Lt. Choi has already rendered his country an enormous service through his inspired activism on behalf of his fellow service members who are/were being discriminated against. Now he may do it again as a result of George’s abusive litigation. There may yet be a vast silver lining to this dark cloud. Please give Dan my thanks and very best wishes that he beats the government. Twice. : )
More than twice my friend. More than twice!
I would start a list here, but it may be jetted to someone like George that is trying their best to destroy democracy! (smiles)
JUDGE FACCIOLA: “Now whether you call that selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution or Bermuda onions is of little moment to me. What I’ve tried to do is articulate the constitutional basis that underlies the defense. And that constitutional basis is that it is impermissible for the Government of the United States to treat people differently on the basis of what they have said”
You had me at ‘Bermuda onions’.
George: “The US Governement should be allowed to do whatever it wants without having to produce evidence or reason. The Government is the law.”
Facciola: “The fuck you say.” (e.g. “There has arisen an issue of law. It involves the presentation of evidence so the record may be complete as to that issue of law.”)
If justice is the whim of the judge, George seems to be doing all she can to rub Facciola the wrong way, like showing up with muscle after the recess when filing the writ of mandamus or degrading the decorum of the court with that whole “Mister” nonsense. Ah, the arrogance of unchecked power wielded by control addicts.
My gut instinct based on her actions is that Ms George is a homophobe. She is the last person I would want within spitting distance of me.
Ms George can go suck an egg.
Jane said “The illegal spying was very much on everyone’s minds though.”
If the email is presented, how far can the defense drill down into it?
I have to add this to the discussion. It hasn’t gotten the attention it deserves.
http://my.firedoglake.com/presumptuousinsect/2011/08/31/david-and-goliath-2011-ad/
Some Hill people think Lt Choi is “TOXIC”
They maybe correct albeit for the real reason
that Truth is the most toxic element against this monstrous fraud
that has been perpetrated by both parties
This would be great on a t-shirt.
I guess I don’t get it. Since the government does not typically prosecute such petty offenses as Dan Choi’s, how can they even make a case for taking it this far? Without all tyhe legal mumbo jumbo it is pretty clear he is not only being selectively prosecuted but the only motive for that is vindictive. To my understanding the normal routine is to let the DC police sort it out and then the accused gets a quick appearance before a judge who says not to do it again. Case closed. Since Choi did not violate the terms of his previous “conviction” on what grounds can the DOJ even bring charges? How can it even get this far? That is what is the scary part. Choi has a very sympathetic judge. How would he fair in front of one not so inclined? How can such an obvious case of prosecutorial miscconduct not be thrown out on the face of it?
And to think there’s a war criminal on TV bragging about using the constitution to wipe his ass with and Holder wastes time on a chickenshit prosecution of a protester when he’s not busting Medical Marijuana outlets.
Another glowing example of a War Criminal trying to act like a real Attorney General and the utter incompetence of the Genius’ administration.
File a FOIA?
It would be funny if Ms. George left out the part that it was testimony she elicited from Dan when she received advice from her phone call.
Jawdroppingly stunning…
Is Ms. George a Regent grad or does she just play one for DOJ?
LT. Choi has shown more courage in his little pinky than Oblahblah has in his entire body. I salute you sir and would gladly follow you into battle any day.
Bless you for bearing witness Jane
I want to see a picture of Ms Angela “I’m A World Class Bigot” George.
Got a kick from a TPM article that the Judge could apply to George and her superiors(?) from a Texas brethren. Lessons from Kindergarten.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/federal_judge_invites_lawyers_to_attend_kindergarten_party_to_teach_them_not_to_waste_his_time.php
And what would that tell you, or what do you plan to do with it?
Just curious. I’m very visual and like to see who the players are. I’ve looked but nothing I’ve found has a pic of her.
Stoat or weasel in a business suit. Just guessing.
come on SD we all know you want to throw darts at her picture ahuh???
A female Jabba the Hutt?
I was thinking of gluing ir to the tigers’ cardboard scratching pad.
I don’t think you could determine the sex, but no, I think back in the day most of the Regent clones were pretty much like Goodling.
I think this one is burrowed from the Dubya admin.
Can anyone offer any advice on how to process good news? It’s been so long, I’ve forgotten how.
What an informative/entertaining report. Thanks Jane.
See here. Teh gOOgle shows metadata that indicates the photo is originally from MetroWeekly.Com although I found it displayed by paper.1i.
Thanks so much for the work on this transcript, and hats off and best wishes to Dan and his legal team!
To other fellow legalese neophytes (c’mon lurkers, I can’t be the only one! -er, can I?), a motion in limine is: “a written or oral motion made by attorneys in civil or criminal lawsuit to preclude prejudicial or objectionable evidence before it is seen or heard by a jury. The primary advantage of the in limine motion is to avoid the futile attempt of trying to undo harm done where jurors have been exposed to damaging evidence, even where later stricken by the court.
The motion in limine is one of the most powerful yet underutilized or misused tools in a litigator’s war chest.”
I’m looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
My image was way off.
They certainly managed to burrow a lot of them into the govt. So many are enamored of the Old Testament I have to wonder why they call themselves Christians, seein’s how the OT is commonly referred to as the Hebrew or Jewish Bible.
I hope this doesn’t drag out another 10 days. As someone said above, Dan is in limbo, and his atty’s hours just keep growing.
Thanks. She’s a bit old to be a Regent mole, methinks.
I was on the treadmill at the Y one morning this week and the man next to me told me that in 20 years we would all be required to attend church by law.
During the webinar Dan was asked about helping with his legal fees and he said that wasn’t necessary. May have been a moment of pride on his part but I’d certainly help.
Well, that would certainly spark a long overdue uprising.
What would age have to do with it? Graduation isn’t the only avenue of affiliation.
I think a lot of people would. Do you think he will be allowed to re-enlist?
We were talking specifically about Regent graduates being placed into govt agencies during the Shrub years. The 7 Mountains movement et al are for turning the country into a theocracy. Those ideas don’t come from the New Testament. Regent law students are steeped in OT theology.
Dunno. I’m hoping he sees a different calling after all this.
I am only part-way through the transcript, but this has to be the best theater this month! Thank you so much Jane and FDL! Front row seats.
Please let us know the minute you find out whether oral argument is scheduled on the D.C. Circuit mandamus petition. I plan to be there if the court hears argument. It could be expedited so we might not get more than a day’s notice.
I saw one just this morning, and I thought it was in a thread here. Let me see if I can figure out where I saw it. She’s a stout middle-aged woman with gray hair.
mzchief has one at #70.
I shouldn’t be surprised, but I always am, that justice seems to be the last thing that is considered in so many court cases.
Shouldn’t there just be a principle that if there is evidence, it should be presented. How does it serve the purpose of justice for a US attorney to go to these lengths to smother that email?
Ohh death by slow cat scratching… How appropriate for such a wench…
Here’s the photo I saw yesterday.
Angela George
Have mercy Edward,
I am glad I have been banned from another board, where else would I get to understand the issue like I am from reading this, thanks FDL.
If he could get the restraining order, I am sure he would get it, let the supervisors argue the government’s bungling ways. I am really upset with the government’s careless assassination of the constitution.
WTF is going on in America?
Yep, that’s the one mzchief linked to upthread. Thanks.
Yeah, that’s the one I saw (and just posted). It was in her comment on yesterday’s thread.
Where did you get banned? I wanna know so I won’t go there.
True, but it is their loss, our gain. Welcome, shibboleth.
This is so amazing, Jane! What you said:
I think Dan should certainly be backed up and that does include financial assistance. I read Autumn Sandeen’s comments about why she entered a plea of guilty to try to financially protect GetEqual (see her comments in “Big Day at FDL: Pam’s House Blend, Dan Choi Trial, Bill McKibben & More!” [Jane Hamsher, Aug. 29, 2011] and especially #35). Now there is a group of folks taking amazing heat and I think they all need to be considered.
I saw that and I agree.
mz, what happens if the court rules in Dan’s favor? I suppose all his fees are still his responsibility?
That reminds me. I can’t even remember who the WH COS is but unless I’ve been missing something I haven’t seen this dude on the airwaves or being the WH spokesperson. It’s just Carney and Osterity.
Yep, unless he can sue DOJ for his legal fees.
Everyman finds himself more and more in the position of not being able to raise even the most modest kind of protest.
So many people have no personal (or even sick) days to take time away from work, many can’t afford to lose the hours.
If you are arrested you give up more days, and the expense is prohibitive.
They have us where they want us, and it is only getting worse.
I wouldn’t mind my tax dollars going there.
Well, I can see a picture of Judge John Facciola up there and I’m in love with him.
The latter days of the Clinton Admin was a prep as older, trained and seasoned civil servants across the agencies were being forced out in waves. I saw every indication that the Shrub Administration had the replacements queued up ready to go when he first entered office and then were packing them in like cord wood. Oblahblah kept it all in place and what can one expect if people like Henry Kissinger are still calling the shots?
I wish we could clone him.
Yep.
And I’ll bet he ties his bowties, no clip-on garbage.
Former JP Morgan Vice President, Bill Daley.
Back to work (late)
Namaste
Yep, after careful scrutiny, I agree.
I can’t wait to read the coming transcripts. Dan really, really lucked out with Judge Facciola.
Jane was being her usual (UN)subtle self: the thin-skinned vindictive individual to whom she refers is preznit.
I would add my personal view: preznit is an idiot and a megalomaniac channeling Richard Nixon. This transcript smells like the Chicago Seven Trial to me (except this time the judge is not conspiring with the prosecutors & spies).
So happy to see that most commenters here and on the prior thread about the filing of the mandamus petition get the heart of the story: prosecutors are hysterical because court ordered them to disclose evidence of unlawful infiltration of & spying on lawful first amendment activities. ORDERED BY OBAMA PERSONALLY. A few folks also pointed out correctly that the victims of such constitutional violations have civil claims for substantial damages. This prosecution is about to peel back the curtain surrounding the evil wizard in the White House. If the victims (currently defendants) desire to do so, they could cost the federal govt hundreds of thousands of dollars in civil damages. Which would make a nice way for Dan Choi to pay back the $3,000 the feds are trying to garnish from him!
see ya
gotta go, too
It wasn’t luck. Like Jane explained, prosecutors opened the door to evidence of the selectiveness & vindictiveness of their own prosecution by relentlessly cross-examining Dan Choi and at least one other defendant about their several prior arrests at the WH fence.
We would be able to appreciate the impact of the revelations in that cross-examination if we had the transcript. Magistrate Facciola repeatedly invokes that testimony; I had no idea until Jane pointed it out that the testimony was in response to questions from the prosecutor.
I say it wasn’t “luck” because any trial judge hearing that testimony would probably have recognized immediately that he was facing an obvious singling-out of the message or content of speech uttered at one protest for stiffer punishment than meted out at earlier protests by the same people at the same location.
Prosecutors are essentially trying to suppress testimony that they elicited themselves, in addition to suppressing evidence of illegal surveillance.
Dan Choi is a patriot, I did not know they still existed.
Go Dan GO.
Thanks Jane.
This is an exciting discovery for me, it is glaring testimony to how far we have slipped on the banana. I have wondered where this Eric Holder was and was he doing his job, and now I see that Wall St is too big to be prosecuted and that Dan Choi makes the reds blush.
I am really really surprised, having been railroaded before. I am in shock and awe by this government, by this administration.
We have to find a new candidate for President, this one has wasted four years, pretty soon this will be with the concurrence of the Robertso Court, law.
Thanks. It was so important to me that I didn’t bother to look it up. *g*
“Prosecutors are essentially trying to suppress testimony that they elicited themselves, in addition to suppressing evidence of illegal surveillance.”
Indeed! Apart from the naked hubris of pissing all over the Constitution and the rule of law, this is one stinking pile of “don’t let anyone see what we are doing!” Existing above the law must be predicated on the secrecy, the invisibility, the unaccountability of those who seek such status.
Fractal, sorry, I was away for a bit.
This is a very helpful explanation. And there is some satisfaction in the fact that she brought this on herself.
I don’t understand the mechanism for what will happen if the email is admitted. Will anyone be able to drill down and expose anything more than the basics about who sent/received?
You said above, “prosecutors are hysterical because court ordered them to disclose evidence of unlawful infiltration of & spying on lawful first amendment activities. ORDERED BY OBAMA PERSONALLY” How and when will this hit the fan?
We need to see all discovery the defendants have obtained so far. Maybe there was very little. I have not followed every single thread about the trial, so Jane or others may have already posted some of the evidence generated by discovery.
My current legal expertise (limited as it is) is in electronic discovery for civil cases. I hope but do not currently know whether the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure have a rule similar to the rule in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure covering ESI (electronically stored information). In general, if the defense is entitled to any portion of ESI, it is entitled to all metadata that is associated with that ESI. So, the metadata should be disclosed and it could include more than what the printed hard copy of emails would show.
It won’t “hit the fan” unless the Court of Appeals denies the prosecutors petition for a writ of mandamus, or grants the petition but denies all the relief the prosecutors seek, in such a manner that the prosecution is forced to continue the trial. There are so many exit ramps from a criminal prosecution that are under the control of the prosecutors that I cannot predict in advance what they will do or what they want to accomplish. If suppression of evidence of illegal infiltration & surveillance by federal and/or state agencies is their principal goal, they can achieve that temporarily by dismissing all criminal charges with prejudice. If the evidence is strong enough to convince some of the defendants to bring civil actions for violations of constitutional rights, the evidence could “hit the fan” in those civil actions.
Sadly, Ms. George is the perfect putz for today’s DoJ. By appearing to be as dim as a Fox Noise anchor, she can wash, rinse and repeat her argument until doomsday, hoping to persuade by noise where she cannot by legal argument. Real lawyers could step in at any time. Why do that when they can take credit for any victory, while letting George take the hits in public for advocating an egregious policy and poorly imagined prosecution?
Ms. George is an intentional foil for the perpetrators at DoJ who are directing this campaign against whistleblowers and credible critics. It’s as if the DoJ had hired Cheney-Addington-Libby and put them in charge. Mr. Obama may imagine this as change he can believe in, but no one else will.
Tangential– “CCR Appeals Warrantless Wiretapping Ruling” (CCRJustice.Org, Aug. 30, 2011):
- CCR Senior Attorney Shayana Kadidal
This pile of crap is too large, gonna require pitchforks to get to the bottom. From previous dealings with the government I will bet they will take the whole ten days, mostly to try and eliminate the possibility of any type of trail to anyone of importance. It will only lead to someone they can claim acted without authority and promptly fire. However, the fingerprints of Holder and King Chaos are all over this.
Thank you Fractal for your time and consideration. Your expertise seems anything but limited and is value to all of us. Please keep commenting as this unfolds. Have you thought about posting a diary? I think that electronic discovery would make for a very interesting read.
“There are so many exit ramps from a criminal prosecution that are under the control of the prosecutors that I cannot predict in advance what they will do or what they want to accomplish.”
As this develops I look forward to reading your contributions.
You think then, Fractal, that Lamberth might grant the petition?
I think it more likely that he will not, nor do I see any reason why he should on a misdemeanor bench case.
I agree with bmaz that Lamberth will, most likely, deny and let Facciola proceed.
Clearly, the Government wants the case to go their way or no way … leading to that dismissal with prejudice.
Why would the defendants having, just as clearly, the “key” to bringing down the whole structure of collusion between the branches of government and the Partiot Act nonesense not proceed to civil litigation?
I am not an attorney, so I am most interested in your thoughts on this astonding situation.
This is too important a crux point in history, to simply be walked away from, at least so it seems to me.
DW
Yep, somewhere in DC or in the nation Obama has his ‘Cheney’ . . . who pulls all the levers on behalf of the oligarchs. Obama is just the figurehead.
N I wonder if it IS Cheney or The Brain, or both still fully operational behind the scenes . . . curiouser it is . . . ;-)
She’s going for the Bladder Win.
Many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to read and understand Judge Facciola’s eminently well reasoned jurisprudence.
For those of you who have been wondering, we are working pro bono for Dan. The often unsung hero in all of this who has had his boots on the ground (literally)for many years is the intrepid Captain James Pietrangelo II who testified on Tuesday. His testimony along with Dan’s reveals the truth of their long fought mission to protect our Constitutional rights for our LGBT community. Please feel free to read their historical testimony if you are interested in fighting intelligently along with us.
We have stated repeatedly and will continue to loudly declare our clarion call for Justice:
LIEUTENANT DAN CHOI IS NOT GUILTY!
Epic, good replay . . . worthy of more replays.
Thank you for visiting with us, Attorney Feldman.
Your skills and efforts are much appeciated.
Your advice will be heeded most happily.
Thank you and Attorney Kent, for all you have done and are doing for ALL citizens of this nation, for the Rule of Law, and for Justice.
DWBartoo
“His testimony along with Dan’s reveals the truth of their long fought mission to protect our Constitutional rights for our LGBT community”
And in doing so, focuses a bright beam on proceedings that the administration would much prefer to leave in the dark. You are therefore helping to protect the Constitutional rights of not just the LGBT community, but for all of us.
Thank you both, and thank you to Dan Choi.
What DWBartoo and OmAli said.
And a personal thanks from a Viet Nam combat vet. LT Choi and CAPT Pietrangelo are my brothers and we stand, or fall, together.
In response to Fractal@117
Should the DoJ decide to fold because they don’t want to gamble on the Writ and don’t want to provide full materials in discovery, how is there to be a full airing of what the government may be culpable of prior to trial? Only through the defendants bringing an action, as described above?
Thanks.
I’ve just started reading Chris Hedges’ “American Fascist” and the notion that political dominionists will want to mandate/coerce church attendance and school prayer at all schools seems to be withing the scope of their medium term goals. Assuming the world does not end before then.