Massive White House Sit-in Will Pressure Obama on Key Environmental Decision; Two Week Protest Begins This Saturday

Over 2,000 people, including environmental leaders, scientists, and celebrities, are expected to join the two week sit-in from August 20 – September 3rd

WASHINGTON, DC — Bill McKibben, Mark Ruffalo, Dr. James Hansen and over 2,000 people from all 50 states are expected to take part in a two week sit-in at the White House beginning this Saturday, August 20, to pressure President Obama to deny the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline. The controversial 1,700 mile project would carry tar sands oil from Canada to the US and has become the most important environmental decision facing President Obama before the 2012 election.

At 10:30 AM on Saturday morning, hundreds of people will gather in Lafeyette Square Park to launch the weeks of protest and then march across Pennsylvania Ave. to the White House to sit-in and risk arrest. The Saturday event will feature notable figures such as McKibben and Gus Speth, a top environmental advisor to multiple presidents and founder of the Natural Resources Defense Council.

Sit-ins with approximately 100 people will continue every morning for the following two weeks until September 3. A calendar of featured spokespeople and delegations from across the country is listed at tarsandsaction.org/press.

“President Obama can stop this climate killing disaster with the stroke of a pen,” said environmentalist and author Bill McKibben, who is spearheading the protests. “We will be outside the White House hoping we can inspire the president to live up to the promises that so inspired us in his 2008 campaign. And without Congress in the way, this is the clearest test he’ll ever have.”

Who: Bill McKibben, Gus Speth, Jane Kleeb and hundreds of others.

What: A sit-in at the White House to kick off two-weeks of daily protest until September 3.

Where: Lafeyette Square Park, facing the White House, before marching over to the White House fence.

When: 10:30 AM, Saturday, August 20

Bravo Jane, Scarecrow, Dan and Bill! Wish we were all there with you!

Heard Gus Speth speak a few times – he’s very worth reading too!

wow and Right On !

how did I miss FDL’s particpation in this action ?!?!

was reading Bill’s post last night at Big Orange – so very inspiring and I look forward to seeing how much pressure these citizens can bring

Flame On !

They are at the White House
http://yfrog.com/h210789972j

Is the livestream working?

no, it says “off air”

After I make a comment I have to get back on the livestream so please wait to check and then let me know.

live stream rocks !!!

it’s working now

This is great – what a blast to get to watch it all live with such a good action!

It’s working great – and you can livechat along too.

Jane’s getting some super interviews with very neat people.

lovin’ those old skoolers !

Great way to start a Saturday morning. Thanks Bill McKibben, Jane Kleeb of Bold Nebraska, Jane Hamsher, Lt. Dan Choi and others for engaging in civil disobedience. It’s very heartening to see people traveling to DC to take this bold action to save our country’s environment.

Precisely Kevin! This is wonderful to see – beginning my Saturday with cheers for Jane, Scarecrow and all these good folk.

There in spirit….!!!

I’m moot on this one.
In almost every possible way this is a non-starter.

What is to be accomplished by stopping the pipeline?
Will it stop production of oil sands? No.
In fact, China in heavily invested and will buy every barrel.
So all it does is to rearrange the deck chairs.
And with additional energy usage to transport Canadian oil to China –
while the U.S. simply imports more oil from the Persian Gulf or Africa.

Also, take a look at the state unemployment numbers.
Which state has the lowest unemployment? North Dakota.
North Dakota?? Yep. Energy development.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/

A student of mine made $10K this summer in two months as as a laborer.
Working people could make that kind of money back in the 1970s and 1980s.
But not any more. N.D. is one of the few places left with good money.

I am a red/green progressive –
But you have to have the core materialist base – i.e. income –
before you can move forward with environmental initiatives.
If you lose working people –
which is taking place all over Europe and North America –
then you have little chance of gaining a political majority.

Look at West Virginia, the Rust Belt,
Yorkshire, the Midlands, Northern France, Northern Sweden.
Areas that were once strongly Democratic, Labout, Socialist, Social Dem
have seen the strongest increase in right-wing / “populist” Tea Party groups.

And if you surrender the political majority to the right –
then the changes of comprehensive environmental action are nil.

I repeat –
What is to be gained?

there they go!

jeez this is exciting

wow … this is wonderful!

And Dan Choi saying “we’re risking arrest because the planet is under arrest!” is wonderful

“I left my handcuffs on the bed post.” – Lt. Dan Choi

Are all civil disobedience actions with Dan this great?

Yeah … he’s got the spirit!

I’m getting all nervous and I’m comfy at home

I think it’s wonderful – really great group of people with great spirit!

Interesting that they’re being so cautious about who is getting arrested – that’s not always been the case!

Hey Ho Tar Sands No

Hey Hey Ho Ho!

Here comes the Park Police warning – leave or get arrested time.

CHeering for Jane, Scare, Dan and all our friends!

Is Obama going to arrest everyone?

Environmentalists take it seriously. I was at a Stop Mountaintop Removal action with many activists from Appalachia. Around 100 were arrested then too and you didn’t participate in getting arrested if you hadn’t signed forms and engaged in some sort of training you weren’t supposed to participate.

It’s smart. It makes the action look serious. It helps your organization make the argument that you are making a moral action.

Second warning

Yep – a lot of good organizing.

I used to train nonviolence trainers for antitrident and antiklan demonstrations and it’s great to see the work being done now – esp here on FDL!!

Warning number three … here we go.

Last warning!

What is to be gained? all the beach front homes on either coast,New Orleans and Florida don’t sink into the sea a few years earlier than expected? Right there you have a monetary motive even if you don’t own a home on either coast.
Pollution related deaths don’t increase more than they already have?
The money could be spent on green power? 100 miles of solar cells could power all of America and still provide good paying jobs?

Arrested!

This is classic. The economy vs. the environment. I vote for the latter, as the protesters are doing.

CBSNews:

Organized labor has teamed up with the oil industry to back the pipeline, and both have been pressuring the Obama administration for approval. In a sign of their influence, the House last month voted 279-147 to force the administration to make a decision about the pipeline by November 1. While the bill is not likely to advance in the Democrat-led Senate, it signaled the strength of the lobbying push in favor of the project.

“Today, with the U.S. economy still struggling, nothing is more important than jobs,” Cindy Schild, the petroleum institutes’s refining issues manager, told the Mercury News. “And construction of the pipeline would mean massive numbers of them.”

“We’ll be outside the white house hoping to inspire the president to live up to the promises that so inspired us in his 2008 campaign.” – Bill McKibben

Good luck!

“Dan listed Barack Obama as his emergency contact number.”

LOL.

Jane, Dan and Scarecrow and crew are now under arrest.

Man, even though it’s all planned out and will go smoothly I just cringe at the idea of our friends being in police custody, no matter how short the time.

If I had notice I could have done a thread on tips to sneak stuff past the guards I learned from a Green Beret:)

Ain’t no power like the power of the people cause the power of the people don’t stop!

Love it! Got it. posting to my SHARES on fb, twitter, CURRENT, DIGG and Google+ ! Thanks!

No livestream internet to wonky for that everyone arrested or just ringleaders are famous people getting a pass on being arrested?
If they are then Obama’s political team gave that order.

I love making the point, what they think is a pejorative in “firebagger” we have come to use as a tool and a weapon, a rallying point much the same as the term “yankee was originally used by the british to insult us

The song Yankee Doodle dates from 1775 and was intended to be insulting. Following the battle of Concord, during which the retreating British played it on the route back to Boston, the Americans adopted the tune as their own and the term began to acquire a complimentary sense.

I REALLY like the term “flaming firebagger”…EXCELLENT

Gus Speth has some good books out on the topic of global warming.

Agreed. It’s a perfectly peaceful protest. Stupid question: why are they being arrested?

Questions: Are powered megaphones illegal for protesters to use in DC demonstrations? Are non-powered, like cardboard, megaphones illegal in DC demonstrations?

So proud of Jane and the crew – wow!

They should all stay in jail and refuse bail we get more of a story then. More Cred posting bail after a day or two is nothing.
But wait no judge on weekends unless Obama leans on a judge they should be in jail until Monday. Unless Obama wants the story killed.

Nice catch its why people started saying Lefty instead of Liberal because Lefty was worse in GOPer eyes.

Not certain but many/most arrests like this are charged as misdemeanor/ticket event … unlikely to require bail, etc.

quite an event over there, jane really understands the important issues and is willing to walk her talk.

The crowd was given three warnings. The people who were prepared to get arrested sat by the fence, in front of the White House. The rest of the crowd moved behind police lines.

I like it because it suggests that some anger is finally coming along with the informed and reasonable views. (I hope I’m not the only one to think of anger when I read “flaming firebagger”)

Until Obama lots of people protested outside the WH before Obama the last person a Woman’s Right activist was arrested by President Wilson.
Obama’s political team does not want pictures of people protesting a *cough* popular President.
So why are they creating worse Obama PR pictures of Jane with a mugshot? and risking worse PR if Jane and friends stay in jail until trial?
I’m going with the they are stupid theory.

Good on everyone at the protest!
Great work!

Thanks for the update:)

Agreed this helps us hurts Obama it would not have made the news at all if they did not get arrested to make the news we have to up the ante.

YES YES YES!

Ummm –

Even if the pipeline is not built –
Under the current Canadian government oil sands production will continue.
The only difference is that it will be shipped to China.
With even more CO2 used in transport.

The coastal beach houses still sink – maybe faster.
Nothing changes re pollution.

There ARE issues of aquifer protection – which should be paramount.
But meanwhile, Bill & Jane look like job killers.
In the middle of the Great Recession.
With the right-wing media machine in overdrive.

Timing is everything in politics.
Had Obama made a greater commitment to green energy early on –
Then there may have been greater range for political action on the pipeline.
But that is not how the facts exist on the ground right now.

Reminds me of progressives calling Lieberman supporters – “LIE-bercrats!”
With such delight – even though their support was essential for a Lamont win.
And, of course, Lamont lost – - without very little crossover support.
I am no fan of Lieberman – but even less a fan of hopeless progressive tactics.

Nothing is going to come of this protest
except for progressives being portrayed as an extreme fringe.
Sorry to say – but it’s not the “March on Washington”.
While further driving workers in energy, auto, trucking, construction to the right.

“They are stupid.” Makes sense out of a lot of things.

I’ve only been outside the White House a couple of times. There were a few protesters. They were peaceful.

But putting the police arresting people in the picture in order to deal with the PR creates their problem. Stupid.

Meanwhile, isn’t there a Constitutional issue here?

You can get to Bill McKibben’s Op-Ed through your link. However, there is no reference to it on the web version of the paper. If you had not mentioned the article, I would never have seen it.

The camera is currently filming sideways.

eep

off air

Off Air. Was Jane arrested?

This arrest is so incredibly cowardly. Shame on the WH.

Just pulled up exposure a bit a reposted to twitpic for share if okay.
Here is flickr link http://www.flickr.com/photos/oriontravel/6062439314

Jane – I think she was repeating what someone said in the crowd – said it was live on C-SPAN. But I don’t see anything on their website. Anyone have access to cable?

Live stream just went off air – may be Jane’s turn for arrest …so …

2,4,6,8 who do we appreciate Jane, Jane Jane! and Dan and Scarecrow too!

Yes he is going to arrest everyone – when he’s not busy droning.

It’s a reincarnation

Wikipedia:

Caracalla Barackalla (Latin: Marcus Aurelius Severus Antoninus Augustus;[1] 4 April 188 – 8 April 217), was Roman emperor from 209 to 217.[2] The eldest son of Septimius Severus, he ruled jointly with his younger brother Geta until he murdered the latter in 211. Barackalla is remembered as one of the most notorious and unpleasant emperors because of the massacres and persecutions he authorized throughout the empire.[3][4]

Barackalla’s reign was also notable for the Constitutio Antoniniana(also called the Edict of Caracalla) , granting Roman citizenship to all freemen throughout the Roman Empire for the purpose of increasing tax revenue. He also debased the Roman coinage to increase the pay of the legions. He is also one of the emperors who commissioned a large public bath-house (thermae) in Rome. The remains of the Baths of Caracalla are one of the major attractions of the Italian capital.

Also, around the time of his accession he devalued the Roman currency. He decreased the silver purity of the denarius from 56.5% to 51.5%, the actual silver weight dropping from 1.81 grams to 1.66 grams – though the overall weight slightly increased. In 215 he also introduced the antoninianus, a “double denarius” weighing 5.1 grams and containing 2.6 grams of silver – a purity of 52%.[10]

In AD 213, Barackalla went north to the German frontier to deal with the Alamanni tribesmen who were causing trouble in the Agri Decumates. The Romans did defeat the Alamanni in battle near the river Main, but failed to win a decisive victory over them. After a peace agreement was brokered and a large bribe payment given to the invaders, the Senate conferred upon him the empty title of “Germanicus Maximus”. The following year the emperor traveled to the East, to Syria and Egypt.

Gibbon described Barackalla as “the common enemy of mankind”.

When the inhabitants of Alexandria heard Caracalla’s claims that he had killed Geta in self-defense, they produced a satire mocking this as well as Barackalla’s other pretensions. In AD 215 Caracalla savagely responded to this insult by slaughtering the deputation of leading citizens who had unsuspectingly assembled before the city to greet his arrival, and then unleashed his troops for several days of looting and plunder in Alexandria. According to historian Cassius Dio, over 20,000 people were killed.

Jane, Dan, Scarecrow and everyone in front of the fence today, thank you for what you are doing to help protect the environment for us and for those who come after us.

What does someone do after being arrested and put in a cell or wherever they put you? Unless they plan to stay there do they have to post bail, or are they let out after a court appearance?

I guess what I am asking is, if you were part of the protest today and were on your own in DC, from out of town and just there to protest, how would you get out?

Big storm here – can’t get cable atm

What is to be gained?

Read Bill McKibben’s OpEd.

The issue is simple: We want the president to block construction of Keystone XL, a pipeline that would carry oil from the tar sands of northern Alberta down to the Gulf of Mexico. We have, not surprisingly, concerns about potential spills and environmental degradation from construction of the pipeline. But those tar sands are also the second-largest pool of carbon in the atmosphere, behind only the oil fields of Saudi Arabia. If we tap into them in a big way, NASA climatologist James Hansen explained in a paper issued this summer, the emissions would mean it’s “essentially game over” for the climate. That’s why the executive directors of many environmental groups and 20 of the country’s leading climate scientists wrote letters asking people to head to Washington for the demonstrations. In scientific terms, it’s as close to a no-brainer as you can get.

OmAli – there will be support people with the demonstration to help …

Most arrests like this get the equivalent of a ticket though that’s never guaranteed. Normally folks are released with a court date and no bail.

Right On! Power To The People!

Thanks, Siun. And if there is a court date do you have to stay in DC or return to appear in court? Or is like a speeding ticket that you can pay before the date and not have to appear?

Josh Nelson tweeted this pic of Jane being arrested: twitpic.com/690ol1

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside
And it is ragin’.
It’ll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’.

–Bob Dylan

Arresting the peaceful protesters? This should tell everyone here exactly who obama is. It’s difficult to believe there are some who still have “hope.”

Yeah, seems likely. They mentioned that they were arresting the women first, and had just arrested Jessica sitting in front of Jane.

The live stream was awesome; viewers went from 40 to a peak of around 172 in a short time. Having the ‘jane-cam’ inside the protesters’ line (within, looking out) was a much more powerful viewing experience that the usual filmed-from-outside POV. Way to go, Jane, Dan, Bill, etc.!!

Someone mentioned that the first arrest was a woman from Wasilla, Alaska.

The link includes C-Span/C-Span 2/C-Span 3 and C-Span Radio. I think what is being aired there is what is currently being aired on their TV stations. If so, there is no current coverage of the Flaming Firebaggers at the WH.

http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/

Return is normal but I’d ask the support team just in case

Ding

x2!

Thanks again.

Takes a lot to be willing to do what Jane and the others are doing. Time, money, travel, determination, courage. They have so much courage and determination. And somehow they manage to scrape together the other components.

I can’t tell you how in awe of them I am.

Yep – but we can all do work to help – tell friends and family, send letters in support to White House, put a sign in your own window, etc etc

I do not aim to sound mean, But do you know anything about the Jim Crow Era in America? You are beginning to sound to rational.

from National Geographic News:
“This is all about taking the oil that’s coming into the Midwest and moving it down to the Gulf Coast, where they have access to China and other markets,” the National Wildlife Federation’s Jeremy Symons told Congress this summer.

Chinese investors have helped to finance early work on an alternate route out of Alberta. That pipeline would take the oil west across the Canadian Rocky Mountains to the Pacific Ocean, where tankers could ship it to Asia. But the project so far appears a pipe dream because of steep opposition from Canadian environmentalists and native Indian nations that control parts of the route through British Columbia.

Bravo, flaming firebaggers! A most worthy cause and a fundamental one – just the thought of Canada’s filthy tar sands glugging their way across Nevada’s fragile desert ecosystems (and the Ogallala aquifer by the way) and down to refineries in the Gulf makes the blood curdle.

If Canada wants to ship this goo to China, let them do so from their own once pristine ports!

Those of us who don’t have much access to live streams will await further reports and ongoing demonstrations. These are the core, the impetus, the germ, but I anticipate that this is but the beginning of the beginning. And we, with respect for our flagbearers, are there!

BRAVO!

When I got arrested in Minnesota, they drove us to a holding area where we got processed. After they checked our IDs and checked for outstanding warrants (which took awhile), they let us go, one-by-one. People who were from out-of-state had to wait overnight in jail because it took longer to check for warrants. Some of the people at the protest today are from Canada; no idea how long they’ll be held.

In Minnesota, we got our notice of the arraignment in the mail, then had to show up at the courthouse at the scheduled time.

I remember hearing that when the Berrigans were in jail they had a great time evangelizing the other inmates – so, we can imagine how many converted firebaggers will emerge from these incarcerations, no matter how long or how short. This is how real movements begin.

Maybe we should all write letters to Mrs. Obama regarding this issue….

Was that during the WTO protests?

It probably is the most interesting conversation you can imagine!

Bo Obama rules the kids…the kids rule Michelle…Michelle rules Barack…

I was in Birmingham and Greensboro.
Any other questions?

Really? You think this environmental disaster is worth the miniscule amount of jobs that would be created? This pipeline will supposedly create abound 20,000 jobs and that numbers is believed to be inflated. We have more than 20 million unemployed. So that is .001 percent of jobs. That teeny amount of jobs growth is hardly worth anything considering the disaster tar sands brings to the environment. You keep on mentioning China, why I don’t know. But hey, if China wants the oil as you insist they do, then let them build a pipeline through the Pacific and into their country.

Go Jane, Dan and Bill!

OT– AntiSec outs former Assistant Director to the Los Angeles FBI office, Richard T. Garcia, for selling the ‘Unmanned Aerial Vehicle “ShadowHawk” to the military, law enforcement and private companies.’

I was in New Jersey once. Do you think we care that you are a shill?

DB – Not building the pipeline will do nothing about the production of oil from the oil sands. If the Trans-Can pipeline cannot be built, oil can be shipped by rail – two transcontinental lines, plus Prince Rupert is working to become a primary commodity port for Asia.

So if the pipeline is not built, the oil sands oil will simply go to China via the Pacific – using a lot more energy in transit in the process. If you can show me how stopping the pipeline would stop oil sands production, that would be different.

Call the State Dept and tell Hillary to call on Barackassad to step down from power because of state violence against peaceful citizens trying to protect their own environment.

My thoughts exactly…lol

I was in Seattle for the WTO protests. I didn’t get arrested there, but from what I heard, it was a hellish experience.

I got arrested in Minnesota back before the WTO protests, both as part of a planned civil disobedience and also at another protest when police just started harassing people. For example, the woman standing next to me had her sign ripped from her hands by a police officer, who then tore it in half. When the woman yelled some obscenity at the officer, she was arrested.

The police also thought it would be a good idea to start charging into the crowd with their horses. Luckily, nobody got hurt.

“the oil sands oil will simply go to China via the Pacific – using a lot more energy in transit in the process.”

Tar sands oil is expensive to produce. It’s only profitable when oil prices are high. With the added costs of rail and sea transport the costs will increase making it less profitable and more likely to be shut down if oil prices come down.

Laura –

What’s the difference between a recession and a depression?
It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job.
It’s a depression when you lose yours.

You seem to be rather cavalier with other people’s jobs, however.
And, despite those who claim the working class have “false consciousness” -
I think that they understand basic threats to their livelihood.

You seem to have missed my core argument –
That you cannot advance green programs effectively until you deal with the red.
To do it the other way around is to build the house before the foundation.

Why is it that left parties have been losing labor voters worldwide?
Why is it that the Tea Party message was so effective in the Rust Belt in 2010?

Yeah, I understand long-term environmental threats –
But you aren’t going to get there if you lose elections – by huge margins.
Why all the shit going down in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio?
Because the Goppers have unassailable majorities and the governor’s mansions.
Hello?

Are unions in bed at times with big bidness? Sure.
Ain’t an organization out there that is without conflicts of interest.
Take a look at a recent Hopi Council vote banning the Sierra Club.
Why? Because the best the Sierra Club could offer for job losses was “sympathy”.

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2009/10/hopi-tribes-message-sierra-club-and-other-enviros-keep-out

If you do not read this and connect the dots –
then you can have all the “moral” victories in the world –
and still come up empty handed.

Still, he does have a point. Someone is going to get the oil from those tar sands, if not us then someone else. Hell of a choice.

The whole Fossil Fuel economy that jamawani serves, is economically unsustainable. When you add the Oil wars that steal oil from other countries for Exxon and BP, the cost rises to include blood and death.

Jamawani you tar oil sands cost too much for me. Tell Obama that he is a tool and a fool. Obama’s greatest failure has been to deepen the addiction to multinational corporate Dirty Oil, Coal and Nuclear.

Can’t wait to read Jane’s and Barack’s 500 word essays ‘How I Spent My Summer Vacation’…

Being a rider myself, I think it is pretty amazing no one was hurt. A horse will try its best not to step on a person, but in a crowd situation all bets are off.

I feel pretty dumb that I confused Seattle and Minneapolis. The really dumb part is because I was in Seattle during the WTO demonstrations :)

Those who take part in this are courageous. Once arrested you never really know what is going to happen to you. Good job Jane, Scarecrow and Dan.

We’re the tools. Obama is going to escape to his Arctic Ocean seafront mansion with his rich buddies when global warming really gets going.

Would Archie Bunker be a teabagger in 2011?

And now you resort to ad hominem attacks.

I’ve probably spend more time working –
than you have at a keyboard.

XOXO – A loyal union member.

Two words: paper ballots.

x2

Fundamentally, the left never really gives a shit about working-class people. If they did, Jane would have gotten arrested on a Verizon picket line, where a real fight is happening.

Except it isn’t a real fight. The IBEW, CWA, and AFL-CIO have already sold the Verizon workers out. Those poor people are going to lose, and lose badly. But it’s still a real fight, because cops are up there cracking heads — not the genteel arrests made today.

Laura is just an example of the fundamental undercurrent that is always present on the left. The left talks a good game when it comes to workers’ rights, but it doesn’t really believe any of it. It never wants to really have to rub shoulders with people who watch pro wrestling and drink Old Milwaukee.

How crazy is it that we allow huge oil companies to get away with paying essentially no taxes while the country is falling into ruin for lack of revenue?

At the same time they are raping the land and endangering water and other environmental resources while they steal the oil and natural gas that by rights should belong to all the citizens. And they reap huge profits by selling it back to us and creating a myriad of other ecological nightmares during their use.

Actually, any natural resource ought to belong to all of humankind.

How’s the stutter?

How are you going to protect the water table?

Ultimately, the effects of the pipeline are a much bigger issue…to all of mankind.

Oil sands are profitable at anything over $40 a barrel.
And likely to have slowly declining costs with volume.
Yes, transportation costs add to final cost –
But like the U.S., China seeks to balance its source mix –
Understanding well the political factors of the Middle East.

Do you foresee oil going below $40 a barrel?
Will China turn down a major, politically safe source?

The pipeline debate is, in reality, simply about the pipeline.
To extend it to the overall issue of oils sands production –
is fantasy.

Not to mention politically naive.

PS –
It won’t make much difference in the Great Plains states –
where the GOP rules almost unchallenged.
But it may make a difference in the Midwest –
where industrial unemployment is at record levels.
And, sadly, the GOP will use this to sell their bullshit.

According to William Marsden, author of “Stupid to the Last Drop: How Alberta Is Bringing Environmental Armageddon to Canada (and Doesn’t Seem to Care)”, Alberta and surrounding provinces will run out of natural gas and water both of which are necessary to mine tar sands long before the potential in mining tar sands can be realized. The Athabasca River is contaminated by the mining runoff. It will probably run dry. Enbridge Energy is exporting “diluent” from Chicago refineries because there is not enough of it to transport the tar sands by pipeline to Chicago.

So far, both Canada and the US have avoided doing a comprehensive environmental impact statement about mining, refining, transporting and using tar sands. To me that is deliberate refusal to confront the facts.

I have been attacked a few times myself. You want to maintain the corporate KcokRoach Government that we have. You want to rip up rock to squeeze a bit of hydrocarbon from them. Then you want to burn this up and put more CO2 in the atmosphere.

So yes you get Ad Hominem and Ad Shillinem attacks.

You need to re-read jamawani’s words.

Something tells me that this is just the beginning for civil disobedience from the Firebagger crowd…

So Eric, when you’re not watching da Crusher on “All-Star” Wrestling, what exactly do you do?

No, he doesn’t. Jam’s on the Koch brothers payroll. Fortunately, those guy hires trolls that are even dumber than Rahm’s.

Could it be that the ones you have to convince about all this is the Canadian governemt? Once it is on the market, someone is going to buy it.

Jamawani didn’t say he/she wanted the pipeline. He/she was suggesting that job losses amongst potential voters for change would backfire…at least that’s what I got from his/her words. I don’t agree, however, he/she does not deserve to be called a shill by anyone here for expressing an opinion. Just sayin’.

Do you really believe that it is just voting manipulation?

That sounds like a creationist position – the world is only 6000 years old.
And anything which suggests otherwise???
“God can create millions of years of rocks in a blink of an eye.”

As long as you blame everything on electronic voting –
(And there are monstrous problems with it, yes)
You provide yourself with an all-encompassing rationale for everything.
(As if paper ballots were immune to fraud, too)

What was it that Stalin said?
“Those who vote accomplish nothing.
Those who count the votes accomplish everything.”

And that was a long time before e-voting.

Koch’s payroll? How do you know that?

Jamiwani!!! You on Koch’s payroll????

First read-thru = surrender or despair. Second read-thru = surrender and despair.

lol

You’re a stupid fuck. The pipeline is irrelevant. If you give a shit about the environment, you should be an anti-capitalist. Capitalism is the problem, not some stupid fucking pipeline. If you shut it down, so what? What are you going to tell me next? That I need to recycle my used pop cans and use CFL light bulbs? You have no fucking clue what’s actually causing environmental degradation. But you’ve probably read Candide and Aristotle’s Poetics, you know who Sartre was, and you know when to clap at the symphony.

God you’re stupid.

You wanna stop job losses?

Stop offering the oligarchs TAX BREAKS to off shore jobs.

You won’t find Jammy backing that play.

Drink Old Milwaukee.

Eric, please, educate us about what causes environmental degradation.

Mods, we need a cleanup @134.

You stepped over the line.

Do you pay for it with welfare?

Yep.

I’m laughing my ass off at you guys…!!!! Y’all need some serious meds….lol

Delete the post. Ban my account. Do what you have to.

Do you really believe that it is just voting manipulation?

Yes. Once the sources of executive control were determined the rest has been pathological child’s play.

Do you or I have the power to prosecute, or is that the sole, discretionary province of the state?

Eric, are you an electrician, a pipe fitter, a welder? What’s the number of your local?

Listen up Eric Patton…reading some of your past comments on other posts, I find I agree with much of what you’ve said…You just need to calm down.

You know what really makes me shake my head at comments like Eric’s? Just about any damn thing that has ever changed in this country to make life better for the working man or woman – 40 hour week, paid vacation, Medicare, SS, WIC, work and food and environmental safety – has been accomplished through hard, slogging work by Liberals. Give me a break.

Unfortunately, the political blogosphere has created conditions that often strangle discourse rather than encourage it. That applies to RedState, the Big Orange, FDL, or even CNN. To disagree is to invite accusations of shilling, trolldom, and Koch affiliation.

And that’s the crux of my criticism. That positions such as presented here have painted progressive activists so far into an ideological corner that they have lost sight of effective political action.

If you tell working class progressives that they are shills for considering employment issues – when record numbers of Americans are out of work and Obama might just come up with something next month – you don’t go far in creating an effective coalition.

And if you don’t create an effective coalition, then you condemn Americans to GOP rule at the state and national levels – which will hardly advance environmental policy. I remain convinced that people lacking the basics of material security – jobs, housing, food – will choose these over any environmental actions. Thus, the means to move forward environmentally is to operate from a just material basis.

You overlook a fundamental aspect of life in America: TV has done to American society what Monsanto did to soy and corn.

Well said.

As a protester? If so, you get added to my list of heroes.

I really don’t think Jama is a shill. His argument is sound. Eric just needs to chill out. We can disagree but all still be on the same side.

You just have to bake the strangled discourse into whatever political strategy you’re following. Democracy is a mess, no doubt about it. Nevertheless, it’s possible to work around the noise and get things done. Human beings are social and they’ve been lurching forward, despite their dissensions, for a long time.

Jam, I’m in a swing-state and will definitely vote for Barry, if it’s the lesser of two evils.

As for the rest of your drivel, it’s just plain wrong. Tar sands are just the latest iteration of privatizing profits, while “socializing” the losses onto the taxpayers. Humans need potable water in which to drink, to bathe, and to grow crops. Once you lose the aquifers, that’s gone, for centuries, forever? No one knows.

Google on what Shell has done to Nigeria.

Huh?

Also, good luck to Jane and Scarecrow.

I would agree.

My Mom was furious when my Dad brought home the first TV.
She said it just rotted your mind.
We had three channels back then.

Now we have 900 channels –
And there’s still nothing worth watching.

PS – I have a friend who works at preserving traditional crops and livestock breeds.

Have You Been To Jail For Justice?

I know what is going on in Nigeria.
I work with a Nigerian whose grandmother can’t go fishing any more.

But the pipeline isn;t going to change Shell in Nigeria.
Nor will it even stop oil sands production in Alberta.

BTW – I was talking about oil sands ten years ago after visiting northern Alberta.
So I have been around that block a few times.

Jam, here’s your labor problem.

Republicans block ending offshore jobs US tax breaks

As you know, the real truth is that the Dems are 99% as responsible as the GOP for retaining these tax breaks.

This is the elephant in the room, not the folly that are the tar sands.

Late to the thread so maybe others have said this — hope this is the start of much more civil disobedience to come on all of the Obama has ignored, has created, and has enabled.

“…on all of the issues…”

Speaking of Bill McKibben, it seems you’re familiar with his book The Age Of Missing Information.

x2.

If you had a clue, you would be supporting Jane and Scare.

Had to check to make sure the first amendment hadn’t been repealed. Still there, however believe it now means “unless objected to by dic-tator living in residence at White House.” At least dubya can be happy since he is now number two on the list as the worst president in history. It took dubya eight years and King Chaos has done it in less than three. Another sad day for America in a growing list.

Fundamentally, the left never really gives a shit about working-class people. If they did, Jane would have gotten arrested on a Verizon picket line, where a real fight is happening.

Have you gotten arrested on a Verizon picket line? It’s not environmentalists’ fault that the labor movement in the U.S. is so milquetoast. The leaders of organized labor have effectively marginalized the use of civil disobedience in labor battles. But, again, that’s not the fault of environmentalists.

Is there a live stream video/audio feed I’m missing?

Gotta catch up with comments above . . . dang, Mz. Hamsher got cuffed n busted! This is great civil disobedience . . . for some reason I missed the lead up into all this today . . . here now tho!

Flame on indeed!

Hmmm, how many new jobs could we create protecting the pipeline as it’s constructed so that completed sections aren’t sabotaged?

join the IWW

I’m a Wobbly.

I’m afraid you will have to mark me out :( I’m a real gutless wonder, but I have nothing but admiration for what Jane, Scarecrow, Dan and the others are doing today.

No, my brother used to live and work in Seattle, and he loved it more than anything. He was a hiker and backpacker and loved to fish and canoe so the Pacific Northwest was like heaven for him. He developed a brainstem infection that nearly killed him, and left him disabled in a wheelchair with bad nerve damage to his left side. He had to move back home with my parents, lost his independence. It was so awful, but he was amazing. Anyway, he had a followup appointment at the UofW hospital, so he and I flew to Seattle during the WTO stuff. He wanted to spend some time down at the waterfront, and while we were there our rental car got towed during the protests. We had quite a good time. actually!

Or, how many new jobs could we create protecting the pipeline as it’s constructed so that none of its sections are completed?

And if you don’t create an effective coalition, then you condemn Americans to GOP rule at the state and national levels – which will hardly advance environmental policy.

More hijacking, more threats. These blogging “Fauxgressives Like You And Firebaggers” are the reason Obama and the Democratic Party will be rejected by voters. This message from the White House “Peabaggers” is two years old. Get a new meme.

We created an effective coalition and mandate in 2008. Obama and Senate corporate D’s sabotaged that coalition. Obama did nothing with his mandate and would do nothing if he had another coalition and mandate.

Obama hates us and I welcome his hatred.

Look in the mirror for the blame.

Live audio/video ended when Jane got arrested. Hopefully, it was archived and will get re-posted later.

I’m sorry to hear about your brother.

It is indeed beautiful country. I lived for a while in Corvallis, OR and later in Imnaha in the Wallowa Mountains, home of the Nez Perce.

Wow Frank33. So true.

Thank you. We were very close growning up. I lost him to melanoma 4 years ago.

It is beautiful, isn’t it? Were you working on a ranch? I remember you talking about the appaloosas that the Nez Perce so prized.

I’ve read a little about the history of the IWW, but after posting my comment, I realized that I didn’t know whether the contemporary IWW was still radical. What do you think?

Boo –
I agree.
The neoliberal Dems have been utterly complicit.
It’s enough to make you cry in your Pabst.
(Which really isn’t Pabst anymore)

With or without private ownership of the means of production, market-based economies necessarily produce environmental degradation. From Robin Hahnel and Michael Albert’s 1990 Princeton Press book A Quiet Revolution in Welfare Economics, Section 7.5 Market Roles and Incentives:

Under market competition managers of plants that pollute-whether they be managing in the interests of stockholders or workers-dissimulate with good reason since pollution taxes and more ecological technology would lower profits. Managers of plants that create shoddy and dangerous products have an incentive to engage in deceptive advertising to preserve demand for their products. And those whose livelihoods depend on the automobile industry will continue to oppose changes they know to be desirable in transportation systems as long as market competition means they would bear the burden of the social costs of transition in the loss of income and dignity that comes from unemployment.

Hahnel and Albert then go on to prove the following theorems:

THEOREM 7.1: MARKET OVERCHARGES. Markets overcharge purchasers of goods with greater than average positive external effects. In other words, if good a has greater positive external effects than good b then:

[p i(b)A / pi(a)A] < [pi(b)O / pi(a)O] where pi(a)A or pi(b)A stands for the supply price individual i would actually face under market allocations and

pi(a)O or pi(b)O stands for the supply price that would be socially efficient to assess individual i.

And,

THEOREM 7.2: SNOWBALLING NONOPTIMALITY OF MARKET ALLOCATIONs. Not only will markets misallocate resources in some initial time period-undersupplying goods with greater than average positive external effects as compared to goods with less than average positive external effects-but there will be a cumulative divergence away from optimal allocations in future time periods as individuals “rationally” adjust their personal characteristics to diminish their needs for goods with positive external effects and expand their needs for goods with few external effects and negative external effects.

The upshot is that market-based economies will cause environmental degradation by simply existing. There is no way one can have a “clean” market economy anymore than one can have “clean” coal or “clean” nuclear energy.

A pro-capitalist environmentalist is like a pro-death-penalty pro-lifer. If you shut a pipeline down, so what? If you use your own bags at the grocery store, so what? As long as markets are in place, you may as well be draining the ocean one teaspoon at a time.

None of this is an argument for centrally-planned economies, which suffer from their own problems. But acting like stopping an oil pipeline is an accomplishment? Okay, maybe it’s an accomplishment on one level, if it is done with the understanding that it is but one step on the road to replacing capitalism with a new economic model.

But do you see that understanding anywhere? I don’t. The next time Bill McKibben uses the word “capitalism” will be the first time.

There really shouldn’t be a conflict between environmental and pro-worker positions, since both should be anti-capitalist. But in 2011, neither is. And that’s why you’re not winning anything yet.

Obama was suited up in late 07 only to prevent a Hillary Clinton presidency. It took unprecedented and blatant flash lying on his campaign’s part to win the nomination (even though more Democrats cast votes for her than for Obama in the primary election).

Man, those folks at The Sycophant’s View have sure got their skivvies in a wad. LOL

Nope. If I do, I’ll starve to death. I have no margin for error.

I’d say it’s pretty radical. Check it out.

I’m alookin’ in the rear view mirror.
And all I see is you.

Yeah, well, the problem is we gotta Be Here Now and deal with what we’ve got. Parecon isn’t gonna help us with that. Maybe in a hundred years or so, if it works at all, and we don’t have time to wait.

Isn’t it strange how the very individual who campaigned with promises of Constutional rights has denied the people of more rights than any other President in history. King Chaos is an evil, vile, two-faced individual who is once again trying to weasel his way out of all the damage and pain he has caused. People need to remember that when he starts speaking that is the best time to quit listening. The only thing I want to hear from him is his resignation speech.

You might want to explain why the Obama campaign in 2010 abandoned all the 29 million, new, mostly young voters who voted in 2008.

Is that the 2012 campaign strategy?

Hmmmm –

Although I am no fan of Obama,
I’m not sure if he was a Manchurian candidate.

As for Hillary – she would sell her own mother –
If it produced any political gain for DLC neoliberals.
(Although she would have been less likely to cave before starting)

And isn’t that what I am being lambasted about?
For the “shocking” effrontery that the pipeline protest –
is little more than pissing in the GOP/DLC/IMF wind?

That’s what was so awful about living in Sweden and Canada. Those damn socialist hellholes and their margins for error.

When I was active in the anarchist community, I noticed there were about 10 anarchists willing to discuss the problems with capitalism – at great length! – for every one person willing to put their neck on the line.

So your holier-than-thou criticism of the people who got arrested today really brings back the memories. Go get your ass arrested and show us how it’s suppose to be done.

Yeah, well, the problem is we gotta Be Here Now and deal with what we’ve got. Parecon isn’t gonna help us with that. Maybe in a hundred years or so, if it works at all, and we don’t have time to wait.

That’s an argument for doctors continuing to use leeches since they don’t have antibiotics. And it’s actually worse because there’s no way medieval doctors could have known that one day there would be antibiotics.

Why?

I’ve been calling for Obama to bow out.
Since early summer.
I am long over Obama – completely.
Got me banned at the Orange Julius.

BTW – If Obama HAD done some major green jobs programs early on –
then he could have nixed the pipeline – both politically and economically.
But since he did nothing, ain’t a chance in hell he will, now.

Find me a group of people who (a) need to win, and (b) will have my back, and I’ll consider it. In my experiences with the left, I have found neither.

Forget about Obama. He is hopeless. We have to deal directly with issues.

Enough people pissing in the wind becomes a storm and eventually a flood somewhere. The flood depends on the individual with the courage to unzip and aim.

So tell me how you’re going to implement parecon over the population of the US, then the world, in time to stop the economic/environmental/human destruction. I’ll all eyes. Practical implementation, not theoretical.

Agree about Hillary.

We need boycotts.

IMHO, the best place to start is with the Koch brothers.

China uses child labor. That’s another good place to start.

Thanks . . . where was the link posted? I didn’t see it above in the diary or in comments . . .

Heh, Firebaggers are on it, I’ve not seen such shit concern trolling from so many in a while . . . SOME body at WH is pissed off at this place!!!

*G*

Yup. Boycotts and General Strikes.

Yeah. It’s fun to play ping pong…;>

The left could start implementing it right now, today. No one — except the left’s donors, perhaps — are stopping it. You wouldn’t even have to go in the streets or be arrested. You could just do it. The left has virtually perfect control over it, and it could use that as the “threat of a good example” to inspire broad-based social movements, as the existence of the Soviet Union did (even though it was hardly a “good” example) in the 30s.

The only reason the New Deal was won in the 30s, or Medicare in the 60s, is because elites were facing threats to the very core of the system. The only way to win massive environmental change, an end to U.S. imperialism, single payer, freeing Peltier — whatever — is by producing another threat to the foundations of the system.

In 2011 and beyond, the only tool I see that is capable of performing this function is parecon. Until the left figures this out — and yes, honestly, the left is still years away from figuring this out, I think — I don’t see anything substantive changing. I mean, do you honestly think substantive change is anywhere on the horizon?

However, people will continue to make money from their websites, so at least there’s that.

Ain’t it fun? Almost as good as Whack-a-Troll.

We got people shillin’ for Osterity.
We got people pimpin’ utopian economic theories.
We got people who stop by to throw a mud pie at Osterity.
We got people who stop by to piss on the lefties.

Bring on the Rockettes!

Methinks –
You needs to reconsider the wind direction.

Well, I didn’t really expect anything more. *sigh*

Consider this. A) You may be wrong. B) Black and white dogmatic thinking simply doesn’t lead to progress. Problems exist and the solutions to those problems are fluid. There may be room within capitalism to still save the earth. Indeed, there better be or we’re fucked.

What am I, your personal assistant?

I you haven’t found the right group of people to take action with, then keep looking.

All this talk about capitalism is pretty passay….government run by corporations is by definition, fascism. Therein lies the real problem.

jama@205 Only a republiturd or Obamaite would foolishly piss into the wind. Now wipe off your face and turn around.

Who is tasked with bailing Jane and Scarecrow out?

Is there a plan?

I don’t need to know the details, but I would like to know that efforts are being made to secure their release and that sufficient resources have been allocated. It’s DC in August. The conditions are going to be extremely tough.

The video was originally embedded in the post. The source was this link at Ustream TV. The caption now reads: “Off Air”.

I like that. I respect your attitude.

Debt and consumtion –
Make the possibility of a general strike remote, indeed.

In some ways, telling people to go out and buy Priuses –
Is like telling a meth head to switch to coke.

But for most Americans, the very architecture of their communities –
forces them to exist in a relentless automotive culture.

How do you stop the pipeline?
You create liveable, bikeable, walkable communities.
That people WANT to live in.

The pipeline will disappear –
When Americans opt out of relentless consumption.

It’s the “meantime” that is always the fly in the ointment.

Usually, repeat usually, protest prisoners are held for a short period, booked, and given a summons to appear, then released. Depends on how the Park Police want to handle it. They could be assholes and go through the whole lookup routine, bond hearing via video, etc. Jane lives in the area and has a job so she’d prolly be released on her own recognizance (ROR), no bond payment required. We’ll see.

That will never, ever, ever happen. Need a plan B.

They intended to get arrested, so I assume they’ve arranged for legal support and a way to get home from the police station.

They will probably be processed and then released on their own recognizance, without having any sort of bail.

*G*

Swat Teh Monkey!

*nointenttoharmrealmonkeys*

*G*

What is that famous protest song labor unions used to use? French, maybe? Not the French Anthem . . . sigh, what memory . . . lol

You hit the nail on the head.

I gotta get me a copy of the IWW Songbook.

I’ve recommended that. I’ve recommended education about it. I’ve recommended workers, like those at Verizon, organizing along pareconish lines. I’ve also said that, if a sufficiently robust anti-capitalist discussion were to even occur on the left, that by itself might be enough to put some fear into elites.

I’ve tried organizing, with no success. I’d say I don’t have the personality for it, but of course that’s the attitude of a loser since if something is worth doing, it’s worth doing badly (I’d give the person I got that quote from credit if I knew her name). Only losers offer excuses and explanations, and that’s what I’m doing. But at least I’m being honest with myself about what I’m doing.

I think the left could do that. It could always say, “We like pareconish ideas, but we have no idea what to do about them, how to implement them, or how to get there.” Instead, parecon is essentially blacklisted. Just like Chomsky is ignored by the New York Times since he can’t be challenged on fact or principle, parecon is ignored by the left, for I believe the same reasons.

Have you ever heard of The NewStandard? It was the forerunner to the Real News Network, except it was organized along pareconish lines. One of its former staff members, Michelle Chen, is actually on FDL somewhere. Anyway, the left let TNS die because it didn’t want TNS around to serve as the threat of a good example. But once they killed it off, someone somewhere found enough well-heeled liberal money to start TRNN.

That’s typical of the left. That’s why I say the left is deeply classist — as classist today as it was sexist 175 years ago. And no one understands this. People don’t want to do their fair share of shit work. Start talking about balanced job complexes with someone and you can pretty much immediately deduce their level of classism.

I think a large part of this is also cultural — I’ve seen well-known writers discuss “pro wrestling” (in quotes) as though the people who watched it were all neanderthals. And the people reading his blog just took it in stride — no one even noticed (well, except for me, that is). Intimations that working people are all stupid go over just fine with the educated folks of the left. For the left, tennis and wine are okay, but pro wrestling and cheap beer are the stuff of the great unwashed — and deep down the left doesn’t really want any of these people around anyway.

It is happening – but far too slowly.

Nearly all of the upscale, trendy communities that are on “Top 20″ lists
tend to have many such features – plus public transportation.

You don’t need or even want a car in Manhattan or San Francisco –
But it has expanded across the water to Hoboken and Berkeley, too.

Austin, Madison, Portland(both), Savannah.
(Of course, theses cities have compact areas as well as distant suburbs.)
And lots of small towns all across the country.
Almost by definition, small towns have everything and everyone nearby.
(But small-town living can be pricey and have few job options.)

So, yes, there are a lot of options out there. Urban and rural.
And the “market” – for what it’s worth – seems to target this idea.
Many of the most expensive new developments attempt to recreate liveable space.
(How one does this via a gated community is beyond me.)

It can be done.

SD, Sixth, thanks.

Sigh – “The Internationale”.
How soon we forget.

Yes, it depends upon how “authority” chooses to act, SD. Likely, as you and
Sixth Estate have suggested, Jane and company will be released and given a summons. Assuming that happens, do they simply pay the fine OR do they do something else.

Simply paying the fine, is not dishonorable.

However, as Jane, Dan, and Scarecrow are taking a more principled stand, and not merely seeking publicity for its own sake, or the sake of enhancing their own “standing”, the question becomes: What is the next step in confronting a situation where power heeds neither truth nor the voices raised to express it … as real, flesh and blood human beings?

This is where the crucial difference between corporate “personhood” and the humanity of real human beings must lead.

What is the next principled move?

I am rather certain the FDL THREE have pondered this question and suggest that it is now a propitious time for the rest of us to do likewise.

DW

Yeah, Michelle writes at HuffPo. She’s on Twitter, but her account is locked.

http://twitter.com/#!/chenface

Fascism

Are you thinking of The Internationale – here it is…

Kewl! Thanks again, never saw that.

Now THAT’S realllllll kewl . . . Joe Hill . . . all the miner songs . . . sweet.

I’m thinkin of a protest song, labor . . . also sung on May Day celebrations . . . no tune comes to mind n neither lyrics. lol

Paying a fine is the same a guilty plea. They can plead not guilty and be assigned a court date. If found guilty and fined, either an equal or greater amount than the original cost, they can then refuse to pay the fine and the judge can substitute some other penalty, which they can appeal. They could drag it out and make news that way, and that’s what it’s all about. *g*

To answer your earlier question, I have two masters degrees (mathematics, accounting) and I am a dropout of two mathematics PhD programs. Currently I teach, but in the past I have worked as a nurse aide (different from a nurse) and an airport shuttle driver in order to pay my bills. The only person supporting me is me.

My dad was a UPS driver for nearly 30 years, and my mom worked in a factory making cash registers for NCR (before the plant was moved to the cheaper-wage southern U.S.). My whole family is working class, and all our friends were working class as I was growing up. Everyone smoked Marlboros or Winstons and drank Strohs or Old Milwaukee. However, my father always hated pro wrestling, but I still watch it.

SD! NOW I remember!

L’Internationale!

*G*

Bingo!

Many here might not yet realize that as the process and we must begin to speak more about the likely, serious, outcomes and the considered sacrifices which must be contemplated.

Thank you, SD, I knew that you know.

Onward!

It’s the ONLY way to go.

;~DW

Handles like “the left,” really don’t help.

Jane was the only one remaining to stand up against Obama on Obamacare, because it had no public option.

Another action which drew the enmity of the WH, because she signed a letter with Grover Norquist asking for an investigation into Rahm at Fannie and Freddie.

Digby (Hullabalo), Crooks and Liars, and Howie Klein at Downwithtyranny have no mention of Jane getting arrested.

Also, from Merriams: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

Ummm…Citizens United….

There we go!

Shoulda knowed Brothuh Kelly would be all over it!

Thanks, comrade!

Heh, Flamin Firebagger . . . . ;-)

*G*

Speakin of a late breakfast:

eggs, roasted garlic, red onion, chili serrano’s, cilantro, homegrowed maters, some Chick Montreal seasoning, splash worcestershire . . . food processor, black pan and evoo, diced up left over roasted pork loin, tons of spinach, grated asagio, put the lid on and simmer till done.

*urppppp*

Washed down with merlot swill . . . ok, let’s whack some trolls!

*G*

707!!

Heh, SD . . . my bad, thot you had said you HAD the IWW Songbook. I concur, wish I had one with Utah’s signature . . . sigh, bless him.

That sounds yummy!

I’ll play whack-a-troll later. Gotta run to the grocery and get some brats and beers for tonight.

Digby (Hullabalo), Crooks and Liars, and Howie Klein at Downwithtyranny have no mention of Jane getting arrested.

Because they long ago proved they are full supporters of The Veal Pen Bleating known as the DNC/DLCC, etc.

*G*

Well, ok, MAYBE Crooks is still a tad proggy . . . they DO got BlueGal n Drifty . . . bit they are more snarky than proggy IMHO.

I used to belong to a Znet bulletin board type thing a long, long time ago, way before blogs. I haven’t been there in ages, but I do remember they had a vibrant parecon community. Here’s a link in case in anybody is interested.

http://www.zcommunications.org/topics/parecon

*G*

I like Jane, and I think she does good work. She’s not radical enough for me; however, she strikes me as someone who is efficient as hell and who knows how to get shit done. If I were a farsighted elite, I would consider Jane a formidable opponent and treat her accordingly.

Having said that, someday, if and when FDL grows sufficiently large, I hope she doesn’t sell out, but I’m never really surprised when anyone does. It’s more surprising to me that someone like Noam Chomsky never has. If I were that privileged, I’m not sure I’d be able to resist the allure of free money, hot women, whatever. I don’t know how I’d respond to those temptations.

*hmmmm*

Brats, camp stove grill . . . beer!

I’m tellin ya, Pups, this guy Kelly got it goin on . . . *G*

Think I just figured out dinner . . . honey’s gone till late tonite. Guy’s Evening In!

Pork! Beer! Maybe even, some, whiskey! Hell, I may have to start before the sun goes down . . . football, baseball on tv, old movies on one channel . . . streaming hot n fast newgrass . . . smelly t shirt n gym shorts . . . yeahhhhhh baby!

THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKIN ‘BOUT!

Now that’s just not fair Larue… I am waiting to grill a rib-eye I picked up this aM and some left over Mac & cheese..
Oh well I am enjoying a St Pauli Girl to wake my appetite up…

I’m not sure they’re around anymore. While Michael Albert is a genius and his theories are largely correct, I have personal issues with him and so I don’t go to his site anymore except to grab parecon essays for circulation and to read the great Paul Street.

I’m thinking of a Cosmo…and sidecar.

Gotta go . . bless Mz Hamsher, Dave, Scarecrow and all the others. Bless ‘em a bizillion times . .

*ByeFlaminFirebaggers*

*twothumbsup*

*G*

Ok, one last comment . . . can’t use bbq grills here (apartments) anymore, so I sneak in the camp stove grill with small gas bottle.

If asked, it’s electric, of course . . . ;-)

Ribeyes don’t suck, hoss! I’m on a lower budget . . . lol

*G* *waves*

I hope Jane and the others are at least in a cool area and have something to drink. Doesn’t seem right to be looking forward to the evening when they are doing the time for all of us.

Thanks for the link. I’ll check him out.

I should probably apologize to you, except I’m not sorry and I’ll just do it again (call you or someone else stupid, that is) if I see something that I think is just total, utter crap. That is, if I apologized, it would just be a fake apology, and why the hell would you want that?

I’m just being honest with you. However, if it helps, it’s not personal (to me anyway). It’s just business. I would have made a very good mafia don.

Seriously Mr. Patton, calling someone here a stupid fuck is out of line. And it does nothing for your arguments either.

I think you’ll find a majority of the commenters at the Lake would identify as working class and middle class, generalizations of convenience. Many have spent the majority of their lives living from paycheck to paycheck and/or in debt. These are the folks traditionally associated with the left.

We’ve got something like 6-7 wars going on. Congress, that hotbed of leftist thought, wants to cut funding for everything except the war department and law enforcement. All other functions of govt are bound for the auspices of free market capitalism. Everyday consumer goods, eg clothes, shoes, food, are produced/grown in China, Indonesia, Viet Nam, South Korea.

The people here are trying, each in their own way, to make change happen. They came together to further their knowledge in things that will assist them in that venture and to share the knowledge they possess. Knowledge that will help them today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year.

New economic theories are interesting and fun to discuss. Will they help us today, tomorrow or next week? In my opinion, no. We’re acutely aware of the neoliberal takeover of the traditional Democratic Party, and that sites like TRNN are “elitist” controlled. Is TRNN’s info good? Most of the time. I don’t think I could refer to John Jay as a token liberal like some on M$NBC. 20th Century Fox is owned by News Corp but that doesn’t stop me from buying Star Wars DVDs. Selfish, I know, for an anti-capitalist without a solution, but what can I say. I’m weak.

I want and need ideas that will help us today and the immediate future.

What..ev…er. Your own BS is all about you…look in the mirror. Unapology accepted. LOL

I want and need ideas that will help us today and the immediate future.

All the more reason to be a pareconist. That is, if parecon is where we want to be in 100 years, or 1000, then that has implications for how we organize now. Are balanced job complexes a good idea in 100 years? If so, why not now?

If you don’t know where you’re going, all roads lead to the same place.

Could it be that people have some problems with parecon, as I do?

We’re going in circles. I’m out.

Will we even need balanced job complexes in 100 years? Robots will do all the work. In many respects, I’m not sure Parecon will be necessary in the future. Theories of leisure might be more apt.

We’re ALL “doing time”, OmAli.

Even within a capitalistic absurdity, time is all that human beings really, ever, “have” to “spend” …

Best we “spend” it where it does the most good.

Perhaps, we are daily being shown, or suggested, the “way”?

Namaste

DW

Jane has had access to people in high places now for a couple of decades that I know of. If selling out were in her makeup she would have done so by now. Jane Hamsher is a person who is highly motivated and passionate. She has been blessed with a high intellect and natural and abundant charm with which she helps to move and shake things up in ways that will result in making a better and more just planet Earth for us all to reside upon.

Thanks for the response, I agree.

Digby has taken it to Pres. Barry on Social Security, hope springs eternal.

Well said, Kitt, and Jane’s primary power is to develop genuine trust. A commodity and necessity seriously depleted, in this time and in this world, our time, and our world …

Namaste

DW

Organized labor is not unanimous on this. Two major unions oppose the pipeline.

x2!!

thanks Jane, and all of you doing this, nothing else will work.

Great job Jane, Dan, Scarecrow, et.al!

And thanks jamawani, Eric Patton, SouthernDragon for an enlightening discussion.

From TarSandsAction.Org, Statement on First Day’s Police Arrests (Aug. 20, 2011):

U.S. Park Police are holding over 50 people in jail tonight through Sunday night for participating in a peaceful sit-in that took place at the White House this morning.

At 11:00 AM, 65 people took part in the sit-in on the sidewalk in front of the White House fence to pressure President Obama to deny the permit for a massive new oil pipeline.

Over 2,000 people from all 50 states and Canada have registered at Tarsandsaction.org to take part in similar sit-ins of 50-100 people everyday for the next two weeks until September 3.

Go peaceful demonstrators!

Can’t believe the The Park asshats are keeping them in for the whole weekend instead of booking and release . . . that’s a stink needs to be raised somehow . . . fascist bastards.

Bravo! You’ve never been better.

SD, you express your thoughts and your wise humanity as well as any philosopher it has ever been my great good fortune and privilege to encounter.

I thank you for your wisdom, your wit, and your steadfast and profound understanding of the moment, of time, of being, of life, of universe, and of grace.

Namaste

I hope he finds his way back over here to see that.

x100!!

What a day. I am very impressed with our protesters and everyone who took a risk today for the planet and humanity.