This, according to the New York Times, is the internal policy debate about the economy going on at the White House:
Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors.
But others, including Gene Sperling, Mr. Obama’s chief economic adviser, say public anger over the debt ceiling debate has weakened Republicans and created an opening for bigger ideas like tax incentives for businesses that hire more workers, according to Congressional Democrats who share that view. Democrats are also pushing the White House to help homeowners facing foreclosure.
Even if the ideas cannot pass Congress, they say, the president would gain a campaign issue by pushing for them.
So the two jobs plans under consideration are put on a show and score a “win” by paying off the Chamber, arming North Korea and offshoring 159,000 jobs with another NAFTA deal, or put on a show and pretend to care about passing legislation that will never happen.
You know at some point people might get wise to the fact that Obama is the most powerful political figure in the world, and he does have options beyond being a corporate tool who lets his campaign manager rearrange the national lawn furniture.
I guess it’s time to fire up the “What Obama Could Do Now” series again:
- Question: What Things Can Obama Do Now?
- Bill Black: What Obama Could Do Now
- Alan Grayson: What Obama Could Do Now
- Cynthia Kouril: What Obama Can Do Now
- Lloyd Chapman: What Obama Could Do Now
- Glenn Greenwald: What Obama Could Do Now
- James Galbraith: What Obama Could Do Now
- Jon Walker: What Obama Could Do Now
The White House does not seem to be able to conceive of actual governance as a viable option, and appear to be counting on the fact that Republicans are so crazy that if they don’t piss off elites they can cruise to victory in 2012 by flim-flamming the public with a series of PR stunts, even in the midst of soaring unemployment.
After watching the Iowa Republican debate devolve into an argument over whether aborting innocent fetuses conceived in rape means victimizing them twice, I’m afraid they might well be right.
Street art by Scot Lefavor, photo: voteprime




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I should note that if there’s one thing I’ve been really remiss about, it’s getting to that patent protection bill. I’m sure it’s a draconian rents grab that will funnel more money to the top, and because patent law is so arcane nobody will understand what’s happening until it’s too late.
I know a little about IP law and generally try to keep an eye on that stuff but things have been so hectic I haven’t had a chance to look it over. If anyone has any expertise in this area, or sees a good analysis, please throw up a link.
Agree.
The link below is not about the new and improved Oligarchs-are-us law, but for anyone interested imho, the series is an accessible introduction into the current Oligarchs-are-us law/lack of funding….
Patents Pending
You’re right Jane I am scared. Hold me, please. And while you’re holding me tight, possibly choking me out, please jumpstart my attempt at a people funded 527, which I wrote up and created all by myself thank you, which could make third party runs viable.
http://www.indiegogo.com/The-Lets-Create-Viable-Third-Party-Runs-Campaign-1
As far as what can he do? He should adopt the MoveOn Contract for the American Dream plan right around the time that the gas tax is up, and use the shock doctrine, for once, to get it passed. Or at least pretend all the while telling his rich backers: “Just fooling them fellas. I know that high unemployment keeps the wage slaves all slavery. I wouldn’t dream of ending that. But I have to make it look good. Hey, who delivered against the public option…? I’m your dude…” There’s also about 160 million in unspent stimulus. I guess I would put it all into unemployment extensions and food stamps but I don’t understand his thinking. If people aren’t working then they’ll try crazy…
Philip Shropshire
http://www.threeriversonline.com
There are so many things that Obama can do that do not require Congress or for which the legislation has already been passed (I’m thinking about, for example, all that TARP $) and he can make things happen by fiat.
And he won’t do it. Bush grabbed executive power for its own sake and to enrich the KBRs and Blackwaters of this world, Obama continues the worst abuses of the Bush years (hello Gitmo detainees) and refuses to use that enhanced pwoer to actually do some good.
It’s all backwards.
There are SOOOOO many things that could be done on the jobs front for which he does not need Congress.Why he wants to partner with them, when he could be a rescuing knight on a white horse style hero, I do not understand. They don’t want to partner with him.
He has multiple tools at hand and could cover himself in glory, yet for some deranged reason refuses to take indivdual action.
If the Bush policy people were Mayberry Machiavellis,
does that make Obama’s crew Hyde Park Hillbillies?
The idea that the public can be tricked into ignoring what’s right in front of their eyes
would be funny if it weren’t so disastrous.
I am scared.
But I’ve just been told in a nearby neighborhood that none of that makes Obama a right-winger.
The number of people who are consistently strong, reasonable and wise is woefully small, Jane, so I think you are expecting to much from people. Stay strong, my friend.
I was sooooo wrong about O. I merely didn’t trust him and thought he was a bad dude. Waaay too optimistic an assessment.
But how to convince those who would rather wait for the stormtroopers to come knocking on THEIR doors?
.
And by “those” I mean the vast majority of the American people, who seem to equate polite submission with virtue.
.
Can’t good values stimulate the lizard-brain the same way ‘Ooga Booga’ fear tactics do? Some sort of liberal version of 72 virgins…
.
On both the upper and lower rungs of American society, Dirty Harry as a cultural icon has been replaced by Scarface.
Sorry, but reality and history show clearly THAT O SHOULD DO NOTHING!
It’s in our best interest if he does absolutely nothing.
I say let him take a vacation, to Martha’s or anywhere else, AND STAY THERE.
I don’t care if he just talks for the rest of this blighted term. That would be great. The less he does, the better for us.
Every time he does something, we get FUBARed beyond belief.
What kind of D puts SS/Medicare on the table???
So please Mr. Corporate PAWN, I implore you, please do nothing.
Frankly I don’t know how much more the country can take. We’re already in decline. Significant and irreversible decline. If he does anything, that decline just gets worse.
For F sakes, please take more vacations.
Leave everything to Biden. With him, nothing will happen.
There is a lot of scary stuff coming from the Obama campaign lately.
Mr. Obama. Fool Me Once, Sh-shame on YOU. F-f-fool Me Agin… Y-Y- Jus’ Cain’t Git Fooled Agin.
What a disaster.
They had no problem lifting the ceiling on Frannie and Freddie to infinity the night before Christmas in 2009 when they thought they might need it to bail out the banks. They could use that now to deal with the housing crisis. They won’t.
They only go belly up and start moaning “oh those mean Republicans won’t let us do anything” when it could actually help ordinary people.
My take on…
WHAT OBAMA CAN DO NOW…
A. Resign
B. Don’t run for re-election
C. Apologise for incompetence and brazen cowardice, then resign
I can’t think of anything else…
Well now take your pick: Presnit Zero or Revnd Cowboy. Can’t wait.
How many times can a supposedly intelligent person make the exact same mistake? This is just beyond belief. It’s as if he has learned absolutely nothing whatsoever. He truly must be a very arrogant person because only that type is so obtuse as ignore failure after failure. This kind of magical thinking is typical of delusional people. Yes, I am scared. So the solution to the jobs crisis it would seem is to appear to be actually doing something rather than actually doing something. He’s reduced himself to irrelevancy (aka McConnell’s bitch) and somehow he thinks he will get some small measure passed? And come 2012 somehow nobody will notice the that the water has reached their lower lip and they can’t feel bottom anymore and vote for him because he tried so hard? I honestly have no idea what he plans to run on.
That’s because ordinary people are the Devil’s spawn. /s
Please don’t start the “What Obama Could Do Now” series again. Too depressing. I now avoid reading anything with “Obama” in the title, and am sickened by anything that is an “open letter to Obama.” Please.
What I want to read about is how to get rid of Obama and the rest of the DLC crew. I want to read about dumping all the incumbents who have sold us out. And, as our situation sinks in, I’m finding articles about how to live on almost nothing extremely interesting.
It looks as if we’re descending into the Dark Ages again, and this serf would like to know where those monastaries where some sanity and knowledge are preserved will be.
“You know at some point people might get wise to the fact that Obama is the most powerful political figure in the world. . .”
If this is so and all we hear from him is how his hands are tied and other excuses for escaping the responsibility that should come with such power, then a logical question would be, “Then what’s the point of being President?” There is something obviously wrong with this all-the-power-but-none-of-the-responsibility construction.
“. . . and he does have options beyond being a corporate tool who lets his campaign manager rearrange the national lawn furniture.”
If being a corporate whore was what made him President, what other choice does he have than doing the bidding of those who gave him the millions to run successfully? If a politician were to bite the hand that fed them in such a way, why wouldn’t their career be over? Why would Obama decide to break the contract with those he chose to work for?
A *lot* of scary stuff. But the scariest thing coming out of the O administration is that it is trying to govern without any substantive policy. I wonder if Bachmann could win by promising to champion some *actual* policy, destructive as anything she champions would be.
The guiding pragmatism of the Obama administration is that they won’t promote or advocate anything they feel the mainstream press will ultimately ignore. They don’t believe that the bully pulpit is a tool for persuading the electorate or challenging the established positions the media (bureau chiefs, think tanks, corporate management, pundits) perpetuates. Indeed, they don’t believe the media can or should be challenged. Thus, the mainstream media and Newscorp set the political agenda and the Obama administration simply advocates for whatever that agenda is- currently that agenda is austerity. We’ll have to see how long austerity remains in favor with the media owners.
Free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors? That will inspire the unemployed, the underemployed, and people underwater on their mortgages to knock on doors for Obama next fall.
The Obama administration is Clintonism without Bill Clinton.
Don’t forget. The reason they had to pass TARP was to save homeowners from getting foreclosed on
Then once it was passed, and they backed up the semi trailers full of cash they sent to Wall Street, they forgot about us little people
Who will vote for the status quo next November? Anyone?
So the two jobs plans under consideration are put on a show and score a “win” by paying off the Chamber, arming North Korea and offshoring 159,000 jobs with another NAFTA deal, or put on a show and pretend to care about passing legislation that will never happen
There is a third option Mr President: Fire your economic team along with political advisors; stop worrying about the mythical center and start worrying about 99% of the American people….I for one don’t care about your place in history but I do care about the world I live in..yes I know the GOP are nut bags but you on other are a self centered hypocrite…
If there was something I could invent right know, It would be what I call “The Jacob Marley Machine.”
It would transfer the consciousness of all 535 in Congress, the SCOTUS, and Obama and all the WH staff into suffering Americans; make them witness firsthand some of the pain and anguish they all are ignoring.
For a month. For starters. And increase the period until the policies improved.
What could Obama do now? If he believed in any of the things he said in all those pretty speeches during the election or cared about anyone other than the folks who paid for his sinecure, he could follow the example of Thich Quang Duc.
I’m still wondering how Ron Paul would be worse as a president for the country than Obama.
“I wonder if Bachmann could win by promising to champion some *actual* policy, destructive as anything she champions would be.”
___
http://www.bgladd.com/BachmannTurnerOverdrive.jpg
See the New Yorker article.
Somebody, please remind me why Obama wanted the presidency in the first place.
And, what is the point of having a second term if you’re unwilling or uninterested in doing something meaningful with it?
Obama is worse than worthless. He’s destructive.
He calls this leadership? Nevertheless, the so called “other side” of this madness is so koo koo they might be right. I think the Corporatist leadership of the Rethugs wants him to win again. Why not, he’s their dream candidate, he can do the things they’ve dreamed of for 75 yrs., like gutting SSI, destroying medicare etc. So why not put up Michele or Sarah or Perry or some other crazed winger?
Scared?
Why should we be scared?
Frankly, it looks like “the people” are REALLY … waking up.
I’ve just returned from a week-long vacation, away from the internet and away from “news” sources of all kinds, except the Ithaca Times, which I picked up, yesterday.
Talked with a number of folks, as I will relate in a “Curmudgeon” diary, in the not too distant future, and found widespread AND deep understanding everywhere I went.
EVERYONE with whom I spoke clearly understands what is going on.
And here, at FDL, it is likewise clear that the Dems have failed, deliberately, completely, and very intentionally to rise to their obligations to the people and the desperate needs of the nation.
This understanding IS genuine progress.
At this point, the momentum is on the side of understanding, the question for FDL, and for all of us is, simply, how best to take advantage of the situation that the Democratic Party and Barack Obama, in particular, become the ones who are scared.
How might we do that?
What do we say when, for example, people say, “This situation has been caused by greed, but, then that is human nature”.
What do we say to that widespread “belief”, what do we say to other, similar myths and beliefs?
Instead of being afraid, what may we share with others, positive things, which we KNOW, for certain?
What “is” cannot be “fixed” or “nudged” slightly, it must be confronted and defeated with reason, not buttressed or affirmed by fear or indecision.
The TPTB are scared, as their behaviors have clearly betrayed.
The MOTU are becoming a bit less sanguine in their happy assumptions of fooling and manipulating the many, and it is not merely in the US, but around this whole world that understanding is blossoming and courage becoming …
DW
He obviously doesn’t believe in the concept of “face” does he? Words for Barry are like contracts for Donald Trump, meant to be broken. He’s a hollow grifter, an empty suit.
Which is why I’m wondering if Ron Paul might be the real lesser evil?
Totally open to changing my mind on this…
I’m not scared of anything, I am though, totally pissed off.
They truly are in a win-win situation. Either way, their agenda gets implemented. The only choice you have is whether you’ll use your vote to continue the lesser-of-two-terribles game.
You can, but you’re being polite.
Well said.
One of the purposes of military training is to teach how to control one’s fear and turn it to action. It’s okay to be scared but don’t allow it to paralyze.
What do we say when, for example, people say, “This situation has been caused by greed, but, then that is human nature”.
Pareconish theory addresses this question. In fact, Parecon: Life After Capitalism has an entire chapter devoted to the question of human nature.
Same here.
Are you sure you’re remembering this correctly? I don’t recall foreclosure prevention being part of the TARP rationale at all back in late 2008. As I remember it, the concern was to prevent a run on banks and a collapse of the banking system. It was only later that foreclosures got so bad and new programs were grafted on, like HAMP, to prevent foreclosures. I don’t believe TARP could have passed if it had been pitched as a program to bail homeowners out of mortgages they couldn’t afford.
Obama is doing what he wants to do, he always has
Obama raised a BILLION dollars? and he probably will raise a Billion Dollars for the election of 2012.”he is not getting this Billion Dollars from FDL members, progressives, liberals, and hippies,
Bill Clinton was a much better con man than OBAMA, Hillary would have been a better player than OBAMA.
“Obama Jobs guy is Jeffrey Immelt”
Jeffrey Immelt the head of Barack Obama’s highly touted “Jobs Council”, is moving even more GE infrastructure to China. GE makes more medical-imaging machines than anyone else in the world, and now GE has announced that it “is moving the headquarters of its 115-year-old X-ray business to Beijing”. Apparently, this is all part of a “plan to invest about $2 billion across China” over the next few years.
Link Below
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/ge-ceo-jeffrey-immelt-the-head-of-obamas-jobs-council-is-moving-jobs-and-economic-infrastructure-to-china-at-a-blistering-pace
If Obama cared about USA workers or the USA middle class he would not have
pick Jeffrey Immelt to be his USA Jobs Person
Where is the Democratic Convention? Charlotte North Carolina
you can’t get more ANTI UNION than North Carolina
What group help OBAMA get elected in 2008? UNIONs, and Obama just told them to go to hell
Obama is doing what his masters want, and Mitt Romney or Rick Perry will do the same in 2012.
The question now is can OBAMA keep this Kabuki Game floating, because it is coming a part at the seams.
Revolutions never start on TV, this is what everyone in the USA need to fear.
Nowadays when I pay someone for some service, I buy them dental work or a visit to a doctor. We are entering the Dark Ages again. I really don’t even see the point of voting.
I think we have to wait until enough Americans run out of what’s left of their 401K savings. Americans simply don’t do anything until they’re desperate. I don’t think Americans have reached the point where they are ready to start governing themselves. They still expect somebody to step in and make it all go away for a while. Critical mass is building. People are angry with Congress, but they’re still not angry enough to sit down and really learn about what’s going on or ask somebody who knows what needs to be done. I look forward to the day that Americans start paying attention. Look out, that’ll be interesting and probably violent. The elites won’t give up privilege without bloodying some noses- never have and never will.
Jane, are you referring to the “America Invents Act“?
I was reading the book “Right Turn” as suggested by Jane Hamsher last week. The theme in the first chapter is that voters want Democratic policies, but like and vote for Republican themes. So my simple progressive theme:
1. Jail Banksters
2. Building Infrastructure
3. Tax Wall Street
With the status quo leaving people desperate and angry, people will vote for change. In 2008, that change (or perception of change) was Barack Obama. In 2012…
Jane:
Could not agree with you more on these so-called free trade agreements. NAFTA has been a disaster as will these latest agreements. Further do not understand the reasoning behind them. Read quite a few articles on this …the trade imbalance is staggering…our exports are so small as to not really make difference. Wish MSM would cover this as much as Palin. As for the disappointment in Obama, would still rather have him than another boneheaded Texan.
And that’s the hard part.
Exactly. There is all kinds of money hangig around in HAMP and HARp that’s already appropriated. The “rules” of HAMP and HARP are not set be statute and could be re0written in the Executive Branch–TODAY.
OK, tomorrow, today’s a Sunday. The point is, he’s already wearing the ruby slippers and has lot’s of pockets of already appropriated $and laws already on the books (currently not being enforced) that he could deploy on his onw say so to relieve underwater homeowners, build infrastructure, and regulate the banksters.
If you guys read Bill Black’s Book Salon post, you will get some pretty detailed explaintion of the ways in which the government is allowing the finance sector to act criminally. POTUS can stop that with a call to DOJ and another call to SEC (and a few other calls to a couple other agencies–OK, he would have to spend all of tomorrow morning on the phone, but after that he can go play some golf)
There is soooo much he can do, and ought to do while Congress is out of town and out of his hair. And that BEFORE he even starts using hte power of the bully pulpit
Yes.
I think there are complex psychological factors at play, too.
Great Post
People are waking up
The MOTU know the guy in the WH is a very, very, poor, KABUKI player.
FDR did not just saved the poor, he also saved the RICH
FDR was ahead of his time, FDR knew there had to be balance for Capitalism to live, life requires balance, nations require balance, you can not have a nation where 1% of the nations controls 80% of the wealth.
FDR knew this could not be maintain, and eventually the entire nation would crumble!
Obama seeking to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade, woke up a lot of people, like Dennis K said, the GOP did not come up with this idea, OBAMA came up with this idea.
Obama’s stupidity will help progressives in the long run, we are looking at the end of DLS Dems, the term OBAMA DEMOCRAT will hurt Dems in the future, it will be code for PHONEY DEMOCRAT
Are these Independent voters really people or just residents of some Potemkin village whom are trotted out and used as prime exhibits whenever the administration needs someone to point to while claiming ‘we’re doing it to appeal to them’?
I am asking because no Independents I know have liked any of the crap being done that is supposed to appeal to them.
——–
The next line is tangential, it may apply but it is not directed to do so.
When you choose the lesser of evils, what you get is evil.
THAT is one of the most origianl instights I have seen in a long time. And it explains a lot.
I think you have hit on something that bears more analysis
Obama has 65 million reasons to become as successful as Bill Clinton in serving the interests of the financial elites. One term might mean a smaller payout (and pushing progressive policies would mean a zero payout).
An earlier Washington Post article highlighted some of the companies that paid Clinton to speak: Goldman Sachs ($650,000 for four speeches), Citigroup ($250,000 for a speech), and Saudi Arabia’s Dabbagh investment firm ($600,000 for two speeches).
WOW, Jane, this statement just jumped out at me:
The White House does not seem to be able to conceive of actual governance as a viable option…
Pretty straightforward and powerful rhetoric. I know you don’t pull punches in this area.
The idea that a trade agreement will help jobs in any way is so absurd, I am pretty pissed that, after the fiasco that was the debt ceiling, obama would “pivot to jobs” with this crap.
I don’t know what the answers are – we are a divided nation, but not so divided when it actually comes to “bread and butter” issues.
Polling does seem to indicate the American public would certainly support progressive ideas like eliminating previous tax cuts on wealthy, job-works projects (especially targeting infrastructure), single-payer health care, maintaining Social Security without raising any ages, and investing in education instead of cutting back.
You can choose to reject both choices. The sooner people start to reject the false idea that we are restricted to bad and worse the better.
This is the perfect election to vote your conscience because either way you’re screwed.
As a “newly minted” independent voter (and ex lifetime Democratic voter), I would have to say that none of what Obama is doing will cause them to get my vote.
Here’s what this independent wants:
Raise taxes on the rich and corporations.
Get out of the endless losing wars that don’t make us safe.
Cut defense spending.
Support Social Security by raising the salary cap.
Offer Medicare to everyone.
Prosecute the fraudulent and corrupt Wall St and TBTF banks!
He’s a compromiser, a consensus-builder, and doing stuff without a consensus is not his style. (Truthfully, I don’t think he’s ever done it any other way; I think it’s the way he grew up.) That it’s the wrong political route right now doesn’t seem to get through, even to his advisers.
What we need is someone who can bang heads together when talk fails, and twist arms to get people to cooperate, and I don’t believe Mr O can do either.
D. Announce he’s turning Republican, then resign.
Way, way too far out …cannot be viable
Heh.
He seemed pretty skilled at that when it came to getting the Congressional Progressive Caucus to vote for the Heritage Foundation’s healthcare plan.
If the alternative is far worse….
Thanks Cynthia. I appreciate the compliment. Of course, there are other factors that determine how the administration acts. Nevertheless, it’s pretty clear to me that the press simply doesn’t seriously discuss any economic alternative to austerity and the White House follows whatever narrative is set in the press.
Over at washington monthly, steve benin’s (sp?) pro-obama blog, any mention that there is a DLC was denied, flamed, and even deleted.
Now that the comment board has been redone, fewer of that crowd seems to post, but the very notion that DLC is a thing of the past chased me away from that site – not a source of legit news nor analysis.
He very nearly tied with Bachman on the straw poll, tho.
I’m not sure there’s not some reverse causation going on there.
Clinton has charisma.
Obama has glamour.
I’d go for charisma first: it gets stuff done, and you can probably get it to do the good stuff.
Yes, we have that choice and I prefer it to voting for someone who doesn’t give a damn about me or the country. Nevertheless, people also have the choice to run for office themselves and sandwich a good between the two evils. That’s the best choice in my opinion, but we aren’t there yet.
“It’s Okay to be Scared Now”
Is this not the perfect slogan for Obama’s Presidential campaign? :O
Yeah, I think a focus on law and order — jailing the jerks who crashed the economy — would go a long way in an election.
Having a substantive jobs program would be wildly popular. Bonus points if it’s for building health care infrastructure with universal access.
Emphasis on the problem of falling wages and a offering a fix to the problem through reinstituting taxes on the uberrich would also be a winner.
To save the nation? I know, if your assessment is correct, not in his job description.
When a Russian political scientist predicted the breakup of the US (seemingly ages ago), I could not even imagine anyone would make such a proclaimation.
Clearly, today we can see that that analysis was based on pretty astute observations. We cannot survive as a nationif there is not a real pushback agaist repugs and the way they have created a fringe movement (teaparty) which BOTH sides pretend is an all-powerful political force that represents that vast majority of Americans.
Fact is, the teabaggers are less popular than socialism here. How did I ever miss all the pundits and politicians bowing to this powerful left-wing group that had overtaken all of politics and both the repug and dems?
/snark
charisma? Is that why monica let him take shots at her blue dress?
…and served as his personal ashtray for his cigars?
And declare offshoring jobs an act of treason. :)
Can’t we get Bernie or someone to run just so we have a place to put a no vote? I can’t vote for Obama but I want to be counted.
Is Bachmann worse, really? I imagine she would govern like GW Bush but with a more racist bent. So…the only difference between O and Bachmann would be that O divides the left but promotes multiculturalism by virtue of being biracial. Edit: I need to think about this more. Not sure that it’s entirely accurate.
paul is a fraud and would immediately capitulate to everything that the teabaggers want without any pretense of “bipartisanship” because, despite any rhetoric of defunding the war machine or whatever, he could not actually still wear the R label if he meant it.
So we might avoid some of the charade and posturing because, unlike obama that is running as a D, paul does not have to try and convince anyone that he is not a repug through and through.
Increasingly, it appears we end up in the same place. It is easy to be the only r to vote against the party line, but that wouldn’t last a second if he was prez.
Does pat paulson still run?
Yes, rather than giving tax holidays for the companies who find loopholes for offshoring…
In a genuine democracy, greenbell, “None of the Above”, would be both an option and a “measure” …
In a truly participatory democracy, which is the ONLY true democracy, meaningless voting would be a travesty requiring the rebuilding of the entire “structure” … and that is, precisely, what we face.
We must rebuild civil society, itself, else we are merely engaged in meaningless gesture and empty “participation” …
DW
boatloads of money – literally more far beyond avarice. He probably wanted sex too, but it appears that michelle could kick his skinny @ss if she took a notion.
Third Way is edging DLC out of the arena. I guess DLC wasn’t neoliberal enough.
There might be some, but I haven’t seen the administration ever challenge an established opinion in the mainstream media. Can anyone imagine the vicious response from the press if the administration had fully advocated the public option? Or how about if they advocated prosecuting Bush administration criminals? Or the press response if the administration advocated raising the tax rate on the wealthiest 10%? No, the administration is terrified to even contemplate that kind of strident presidency. It’s good for their political survival, but awful for the country.
Personally, clinton wasn’t really a good D either, but he understood the concept of “head”.
I would rather see the clinton-style scandals in the news today than the disgusting debt ceiling charade we just saw.
Something very strange has happened in public rhetoric in the US over the last generation–I won’t say discourse because public discourse has largely vanished (the internet being the exception to this theory). I suppose it has always been there in political speech, but it seems to have increased to a critical mass that has resulted in a sea change, a re-imagining in recent decades. What has happened is that words are no longer solid. They are liquid. They have lost a permanence and meaning. An obvious expression of this is law, which is irrevocably tied to the shared, concrete definitions of words. If words are not solid or meaningful, than neither is the law. So now we have Enemy Combatants, war that is not war, town hall meetings that are rigged theatrical productions, and “reform” means destructive theft, to cite a few examples.
Television, at least as it gets used, has a tremendous amount to do with this lack of solidity. It flattens and confines human experience to a permanent present: It is always now. And when someone can’t become President unless they look good on television, part of that looking good entails making one’s words compatible with that medium.
If such is the state of our political affairs, why should Obama care about words? There will be new ones tomorrow to throw trump.
While I appreciate the postmodern relativism of all this, what it amounts to in practical terms is that our ability to communicate with each other is severely reduced and those who have the power to shape the meanings of words on a daily basis to suit their goals end up with an inordinate amount of power over the ideas and actions of those with much less power. This state of affairs creates an unhealthy power imbalance, undermines representative democracy and wrecks the sense of community upon which each of us are dependent as social animals.
Sometimes I do have a fuzzy memory, but not this time
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9961/01-16-TARP.pdf
Ben Bernanke’s testimony, Sep. 23, 2008 (1:05)
http://youtu.be/tfnyRyxx_6k
Yes. What the world needs is more, louder neoliberal voices. Thank goodness for the Third Way./s
Is it that he doesn’t dare do anything his corporate masters haven’t specifically told him to do.
How about that image of O with his arms folded in determination and his sleeves rolled up to do – nothing.
I think you can over emphasize the role of the media. It’s not the only institution failing us. Look at all the supposed universities turning out MBA robots who wouldn’t able to explain the Enlightenment if their 401K depended on it.
The best way to answer your question, IMHO, is to just look at the fact that no one can verify elections – instead of being free, open, verifiable, and transparent, they are decided on proprietary software that we are told we have no right to look into and see what is happening.
If by independents, you mean independent voters, how can anyone say what they (or anyone else) actually voted for or against?
Why should we be scared? Indeed. Fear is the root of this whole ball of wax. Haven’t we all been up to our tits in Fear long enough to be tired of it? Are we all still breathing oxygen? Then what’s the fucking problem?
I’ve always taken a great deal of comfort in this statement from Hunter Thompson: “It never got weird enough for me.” What fear?
This is an extraordinarily important and insightful comment. The issue you write about of course has as a corollary the “reality-based community” remark of probably Karl Rove. “We make our own reality” is much easier if words have a shaky relationship with what they seem to mean. Postmodern relativism certainly gave great impetus to this – there is no reality, just text. Pomo ate the heart out of US academia except, for the most part, in the sciences (especially after the Alan Sokal hoax).
Adding to your thought: A huge part of the reason we even exist as a species is because, as a social animal, we are thoroughly dependent on cooperation and mutual assistance. Greed is the enemy of the very thing that keeps us afloat.
But Obama IS interested in governance — neoliberal governance, of the type that manages the chicken coop in the foxes’ best interests.
The article also says:
” Mr. Plouffe and Mr. Daley share the view that a focus on deficit reduction is an economic and political imperative, according to people who have spoken with them. Voters believe that paying down the debt will help the economy, and the White House agrees, although it wants to avoid cutting too much spending while the economy remains weak.”
As long as Zero combines that attitude with his bi partisan, “I’m scared shitless of those guys” approach don’t look for much at all. I thought he should be leading but I guess not?
You are right on Kris. I do the same. Obama is a lost cause and we should be concentrating on finding another candidate….one that will run on the SS, Medicare and Medicaid issue. They will win with that issue. But we have got to have someone that the public can vote for. I think the Labor Unions are the key to recruitment for that because they have the money and man/women power.
agree but the real culprit was Baucus and who better to be on the SC
Ron Paul may well be the best silver bullet this Republic has.
“Transpartisanship” all the way. Scorched earth policy towards the oligarchy’s plaything parties.
Watch Ds & Rs work towards the goal of squeezing the public more and more. The Republicans squeeze the herd from the right and the Democrats squeeze them from the left and we’re all headed to the oligarch’s slaughterhouse with the little Judas goat leading the way.
President Judas Goat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_goat
Hyde Park Hillbillies
Oh, that’s a wonderful starting point, at least! Things like Harper Court Straussians or unCo-opers might be too parochial.
Perhaps “lesser of two evils” voting is meaningless voting, too. But the problem with not voting is that it doesn’t send much of a message – it’s indistinguishable from just not caring. Writing in a name would be better.
If I remember right, that “we make our own reality” comment was in the context of how history might view the actions of the George W. administration. They were mocking historians and their discipline. The crazy thing is that in a way the comment is accurate, both in the sense that George W. et al operated under the assumption that the executive is the law as well as above it, and also in the sense that historians, in not being able to offer effective critique, were abdicating their only useful public role: helping citizens understand their present world. Rove and company had handed historians (and a lot of other academicians) their ass and Rove knew it.
Why? Because historians never effectively dealt with postmodern relativism, perhaps because it was too much of an affront to the way they had been doing things. At best they laughed at it. But by not coming to terms with it, by not working out its pros and cons, they were not able to make sense of an era and an administration that was employing its principles. We are still adrift today.
was never on the radar – I learned that here and learned it very early on in this Presidency –
like some perpetual motion machine gone horribly awry, they are all about electoral politics and re election period. every gd thing is geared towards it
in darker moments I contemplate how effing, blindingly reckless they are – they don’t give a shit about the MOTU’s no more than they give a shit about the hippies – it’s all coffer fodder to this gang
I”m not just being snarky when I type my little Optics Uber Alles song –
and of course they are waaaay wrong, historically wrong in their approach – help some people out, go 1/10th FDR, put some americans back to work and you win* – but they appear to be caught up in the game and not the results
*I understand how optimistic and magical that sounds, but think about the country’s present mood and tell me I’m wrong
Great comment. Play with the meaning of words, and you create ambiguity. Ambiguity encourages continued inertia and apathy in the people. Why subject oneself to inconvenience and risk if you ain’t completely certain that you are understanding things clearly? It’s a great tactic, and boy do the PTB know how to use it. Big question: How do we overcome that powerful tactic without having an equally big megaphone? IMO, sites like this are the best we have, but the voice is not nearly loud enough.
Obama’s plan – lie harder.
I will say this for him. He stays bought.
Some food for thought.
http://web.pdx.edu/~tothm/religion/postmodern%20warfare.htm
That is excellent.
See the recent Mercier-Sperber paper “Why do humans reason? Arguments for an argumentative theory“
The hypothesis: We don’t reason to get at “truth,” we “reason” to prevail in arguments. It has served an Adaptive function. The downside is that argumentative discourse is consequently freighted with both a raft of cognitive biases and the tactical expediencies of politicizing the meanings of fundamental terms. Words as weapons.
The republicons that are running have set a pretty low bar for Obama to step or stumble over in 2012. Apparently Plouffe and co are counting on the see “we’re just not that batshit insane” vote to turn out for them.
That said, remember in the run up all this talk about HOLC (Hilary’s proposal) something like turning that unused HAMP and TARP money into that would go a long way in helping millions of underwater/struggling homeowners stave off foreclosure. Gee if only we had someone in office who actually gave a damn instead as Mark Thoma noted (via Krugman blog post), what his topnotch political/economic gerus feel Obama should do (essentially do nothing to help the masses) in order to get elected. Thoma summed it up Team Obama thinking like this.
.
And I should know by now that “patent protection” thing has some sort of gimmick to it that most likely isn’t really going to help the masses …it’s so disconnected from the real problems households face…I mean I can see the slogans “Patents Protection we can believe it” Vote Obama, A Patent Protection in every Pot”…sounds absolutely positively inspiring doesn’t it.
“Vote Obama, A Patent Protection in every Pot”…sounds absolutely positively inspiring doesn’t it.”
___
I can just see the InvenTech cable TV commercials now…
“Do YOU have an idea for a new product or service, or just an improvement to an existing one…?”
I’m a lawyer (no longer practicing, out of principle lol), so forgive me if I call it “the lawyerization of public discourse.” Lawyers play with words and leave out key facts all the time, but it is OK in the law because it is assumed that there is an equally skillful adversary who will have a full and fair opportunity to refute misleading statements and supply key facts. That doesn’t work in public discourse, because the originator of the corrupted communication has a megaphone and the listener doesn’t. The media, whose job it should be to assume the adversary role, of course never does because it is corporate-owned and thus shares the same corporate agenda as the speakers who get to use the megaphone in the first place. I’ve been wrestling with this issue for 30 years, and have yet to come up with an effective idea to restore the integrity of public communication.
Stuart Zechman on BlogTalkRadio explaining the Dems posture of nongovernance:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/virtuallyspeaking/2011/08/11/rerun-vs-a-z
We are indeed adrift, intellectually as in so many other ways. I come here because FDL is part of the reality-based community of which I am a proud card carrying member.
At News for Real by Steve Pizzo I saw an article by Joe Nocera entitled “Boycott Campaign Donations”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/13/opinion/nocera-boycott-campaign-donations.html
The CEO of Starbucks is proposing to essentially go on strike by refusing to donate to congressional or presidential campaigns. He is trying to organize other business leaders and organizations to join him.
It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.
Oh, God, I really hope you’re right. In my area, it seems that no one is interested in anything but maintaining the status quo–indeed they seem to be unaware that there is any other option. It’s beyond discouraging.
Hmm, I’ll see your Baucus and raise you a Liz Fowler.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/08/liz-fowlers-plan/
To save the nation. Wouldn’t that be a great re-imagining of the Trojan Horse idea: A President who took corporate funds and then did the opposite of their wishes.
Yes, I suspect that some of the same dynamics that ended the Soviet empire may end the US. Although, I’m not sure the latter will go so quietly.
It speaks volumes that President Obama’s chief economic advisers, Gene Sperling (and why was Terrible Timmy left out? He’s calling the shots.), aren’t economists. They’re lawyers. That’s not letting President Obama off the hook; he picked and listens to them.
We start by turning off the TV. In other words, we reject the megaphone as it is unidirectional and rhetorical. Real discourse that involves shared meaning can’t abide megaphones. Play a different game.
Hey, thanks for the link!
“In the September 24 [2001] issue of Time, Roger Rosenblatt announced “the end of the age of irony”. . .”
I thought it was the beginning? :)
Dems would raise the taxes, but Republicans say “No.” Elect more Dems!
The wars are not “losing” and there is a scheduled end to them.
Defense spending cuts are already in the works.
Republicans won’t allow the salary cap for Soc. Sec. to be raised.
Elect more Democrats!
We’re not going to offer Medicare to everybody after having just passed the PPACA which actually has many more good features than Medicare.
Prosecuting Wall Streeters is up to the DoJ and though it hasn’t been published much they have been prosecuting some.
Obama & Congressional Dems would be doing a lot more good things if there were enough of them to get it past the Republicans.
Thanks for the link!
Good suggestion, but not for me personally–I still get good info from the TV for my work, which is now trading the markets. Anyway, I have lots of skills and tools that allow me to reality check the TV. Unfortunately, the masses don’t have those skills or tools, and aren’t about to turn off their TV’s. The Fairness Doctrine used to help a lot, but Reagan killed that. It’s been a fast downhill slide ever since.
Nope won’t take that bet after reading article……thanks for the info
I suppose the biggest employer gov’t controls is the military, but we’re not looking to increase that, now are we.
Government can do things to improve the economy to improve job growth, but there is no way government can create programs which hire directly. Republicans would stop it and the public hasn’t called for that sort of thing by electing the politicians to do it. So, what we have are plans for an infrastructure bank where private firms are contracted to do work and hire people. That’s quite likely to happen soon. Gov’t also sets tax rates and ‘loopholes’ which enable more capital to flow to new things like clean energy. That’s been put in place and needs to be continued — Republicans would kill it. Another thing which doesn’t get a lot of attention is that a big part of the 2009 stimulus bill put money into long-term infrastructure spending. A part of that has yet to be spent because long-term projects simply take time to do. It would be great if Republicans would get behind certain tax system reforms which would also push companies to put money to work. They had everyone focused on the debt ceiling and time was wasted.
So you see, there is a program in place and it has a lot of parts. Some Republicans oppose, some they support…in their own way.
Democrats have already tried (and I think plan to try again) to change the law to (at least) slow that, but Republicans have opposed that change.
Elect more Democrats!
People are not hurting enough, sad to say. Frankly, I think we should elect Republicans and let them run the country into the ground. The elites will suffer and the masses should be sufficiently destitute to not give a damn whether they miss an episode of Dancing with the Stars. At that point, you’ve nothing to lose by getting into the streets. It should be clear by now, the Dems have no intention of helping anyone. They are just as invested in the status quo as the Repubs. We need a completely new system of governing. This one is corrupt to the core and not fixable from within.
Matt Taibbi on Olbermann made the argument that Democrats are doing exactly the opposite. He said that D’s are proposing the reinstitution of failed tax holidays for companies who bring their workforce back to the US. That creates jobs, right? Wrong. Companies move their addresses back to the US and collect the tax break –something like a decline from 17% to 5% tax on taxes — while not creating a single. job. in the US.
Elect sensible representatives, not a party.
While I agree we need better ways to ensure the votes we cast on ballots during elections are actually counted correctly and applied correctly into the vote tallies, etc. I am not sure what that has to do with the question of whether or not the group this administration claims it is trying to appeal to really exists or are just an illusion, being used as part of a classic case of misdirection.
Infrastructure bank is just another vehicle to funnel money to the corporations.
What a coincidence. I no longer teach history out of principle. :)
You have precisely described the rub: What to do about the megaphone? Years ago I read the early propagandists, like Lippmann, Bernays and even Goebbels for his use of the radio and idea of “tribalism,” looking for clues. And like many others I thought the internet might redress the problem, but it becomes more like the TV every day. Apart from shutting off the TV and actually talking with other people, I’m at a loss as well.
1. The military ought not be the biggest government employer. People want an end to the wars and an end to reckless and wasteful military spending.
2. “but there is no way government can create programs which hire directly”. Yes We Can. That’s why Change won the election. That was the Hope. The rest is just neoliberal claptrap that does not work and will never work.
3. Stop blaming Republicans for the failure of the D party to represent anyone but corporations and the wealthy elite.
Folks like you lost your credibility when you promised to end the wars if we elected Democrats in 2006 and 2008. You did not even try to fool us again on that issue in 2010. Now you want to rationalize ending the social safety net we earned through the New Deal! Obama has put these on the table, not the REpubs. Your arguments sound so weak, “please, elect more undermining, double talking, double crossing Democrats”.
You do know? Jeffrey Immelt
Obama Jobs guy is Jeffrey Immelt”
Jeffrey Immelt the head of Barack Obama’s highly touted “Jobs Council”, is moving even more GE infrastructure to China. GE makes more medical-imaging machines than anyone else in the world, and now GE has announced that it “is moving the headquarters of its 115-year-old X-ray business to Beijing”. Apparently, this is all part of a “plan to invest about $2 billion across China” over the next few years.
Link Below
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/ge-ceo-jeffrey-immelt-the-head-of-obamas-jobs-council-is-moving-jobs-and-economic-infrastructure-to-china-at-a-blistering-pace
Please don’t elect any Dems like OBAMA!
Progressives need to follow, Sea Shepherd and Paul Watson
Direct Action against Wall Street Bank may be our hope
The thing with CLinton is, if you’ve ever been to a a Q & A with him, is he really seems like the smartest guy inthe room, or at least the most well informed. He’s very impressive in a policy discussion
Voting does not, any longer send any meaningful message, except of surrender, Cathy.
We all MUST understand and act BEYOND “voting”, we must demand and insist upon what we have come, together, to understand as necessary.
Today, “voting” is a polite “act” of betrayal, of submission.
“Voting” for selected and vetted candidates is NOT the essence of enlightened behavior, it is no more an act of courage than turning on the Tee Vee and exercising the “freedom” of choice for a thousand meaningless and empty choices of mindless aquiesence, voting is now but a beggardly part of programmed and predictable circuses … and, as well, the willful abolition of conscience and personal volition in the meager hopes of a “champion” on the white charger, it is an act of cowardly acceptance, unless and until those we would “vote” for are worthy of our trust and the “mandate” of a free and aware populace.
As Emma Goldman once said, if voting could change anything, if it could make a real difference, then it would be outlawed …
Meaningless choice is no choice at all, merely a sham and a pretence.
DW
Political debates will ALWAYS be about issues that don’t involve corporate profits, thus providing the impression that the public has a choice about SOMETHING, even though both parties’ candidates plan to implement more or less the same economic strategies desired by the corporate elites.
Thus, when a CEO or lobbyist says that regulations must be jettisoned before corporations will spend their offshored profits on hiring US workers, the leaders of both parties fail to question it’s absurdity or to offer any alternatives.
I don’t believe I have ever heard this idea expressed better.
I’m not sure that the masses have any less ability to reality check the propaganda that comes out of the TV than anyone else because propaganda does not work at the intellectual level but at the emotional one. It does not influence thinking but instead puts Right Answers where thinking should go. It operates at the same level as a Coke or Axe commercial, and is not rational. Here’s my unintellectual, anecdotal evidence:
1. I have a relative who is one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, caring people I know. As a career officer in the military, he has seen the world from the beginnings of the Berlin Wall to Vietnam to being personally involved in the results of the Torrijos-Carter Treaty. In short, this guy’s no fool. Some years ago he started listening to Rush Limbaugh. It has changed him for the worse.
2. I spent half of the 1990s in about half a dozen countries outside the US. In that time, I almost never watched TV. I noticed that I felt much lighter, less anxious, less consumptive and more creative. To test this over the last decade, I would watch TV before a trip and check my attitudes and behavior and then again while in another country and then on return. Well, that shit gets under your skin wether you want it to or not.
“The White House does not seem to be able to conceive of actual governance as a viable option’
considering all things obama, maybe thats not our worst problem
You can “use” all the “scare quotes” you “like” and string a “lot” of “nihilist rhetoric” together too, and you couldn’t be more effective at suppressing voting.
There’s a lot that goes into voting and participating.
Don’t tell me it doesn’t make a difference when I and others have kept the radical concept of “personhood” out of women’s bodies here in Colorado – and the candidates that supported such a freak concept.
I get it that people are demoralized today. But adding to that demoralization seems counterproductive to me.
I know every right-wing nutjob loves to play this video, but I think it is instructive on just how incredibly adept our political class is at lying. Anyone in elected office must have considerable acting talent. Politicians hire handlers for a reason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDtcyVbPvC4
Kelly, you misunderstand me.
You are deliberately not hearing what I said.
When voting can make a difference, then voting is not a meaningless act, neither is it a right, IT IS AN OBLIGATION.
Do not, in future, read me short.
Seek, instead, to understand the words I am sharing and do not read into them things I have not and do not say.
Else, Kelly, it is you who are demoralizing people and obscuring truth.
I share a message of genuine hope and personal responsibility, on a considered and serious level of conscience … which you either understand or you do not.
I appreciate what you say and what you stand for.
I expect no less from you.
DW
–What do we say when, for example, people say, “This situation has been caused by greed, but, then that is human nature”.–
How about responding with, “That’s why we are supposed to have, and absolutely must have, a functioning and just rule of law with capable/trustworthy elected officials that are required to implement those laws.”
Nihilism? Demoralization? These are in no way what DWBartoo is after. The whole point of his comment was about the active positivism of getting past voting to something more meaningful. DWBartoo is one of the least nihilistic or demoralized commenters on FDL. Is democracy no more than voting?
Okey dokey. I’ll leave it to others to square your comment:
And
With your now stated concept of “obligation.”
Agree that today voting is a polite act of submission.
It doesn’t have to be that way.
Well, I’ve made the argument many times that we need to get rid of elections and have a system of random selection of limited-term representatives chosen from the general population. It would be like jury duty, except that those chosen would have the right to decline since it would require a bigger commitment. So you draft a list of 100 names from a district and go down the list till someone says yes.
The advantages: no distracting political partisanship, no professional politicians, bribes would be crimes and not campaign contributions, more diversity of experience and ideas.
It’s my experience that when ordinary people look at issues free from the emotional manipulation of partisan politics and are tasked with the duty of making the decisions, they get a lot smarter.
I agree with many parts of the post except “Obama is the most powerful political figure in the world.”
He WAS such, but squandered that stature, and is now very weak. He has managed to pull off the once in a lifetime political trick of pissing off everyone all at the same time.
Sometimes, you can say that if both sides don’t like something, it might then mean it is good policy. That is when you hit major parts of policy that both sides like and discard parts that both sides are not emotional/adament about.
When you have policy that discards the major ideas of both sides and adopts the minor ones, that is just bad work all around.
When no one from any side believes anything you say anymore, you are just plain weak. Nothing else. It is almost to the point that it doesn’t matter what he does, because he doesn’t have the capital to do anything anymore. And, no one is going to rally to his side if he says something that sounds good because no one will believe he actually means it.
This is a part of what must be said, wordplay, a most important and fundamental, indeed I consider it an essential part of what constitutes civil society.
On a more primitive level the conversation might go like this:
“It’s just human nature.”
What is?
“Greed.”
Well, if that is so, then the vast majority of human beings aren’t very good at it.
“What do you mean?”
Well, most of us, more than 90% of us, don’t practice this greed business very well.
“But isn’t greed one of the main problems of our time?”
Yes, about the biggest.
“Well …?”
Well, you aren’t motivated by greed are you? How many of your friends are motivated by greed? For that matter, what real evidence is there that MOST people are motivated by greed?
“Maybe so. But, look at the world. How did we get this way if greed wasn’t behind it?”
Greed IS behind it, but only about ten percent of human beings are REALLY into greed with a percentage of wannabes thinking they’d like to be.
“Well, what do we do?”
First, we start to THINK differently as individuals, and then, as a society (society being understood as simply how individual beings within a “community” treat other individual beings within that community) we ACT differently.
“What do you mean?”
Well, we all can see that greed is a very destructive pattern, that is, if we are honest, really honest, about our human reality. Look what systemic greed has gotten us right now. And look at the evidence we can see in the past, if we examine the history of our species, of the destructive consequences of greed – it destroys societies and civilization itself.
“What should wee do?”
What do you imagine we should do?
“Well we can’t outlaw greed because then people wouldn’t have any motivation to do anything.”
Whoa! You’re right back to blanket assertion that doesn’t really match reality. Are you saying that you wouldn’t be motivated to do anything if you could not get rich dfoing it?
“N0!”
Well then, YOUR human nature doesn’t reguire greed, does it?
“No.”
Well then, tell me what great things have been done or accomplished by those who DO require greed to be motivated to do those “great” things?
“Well, isn’t all progress the result of greed?”
Is it? Where is the evidence? Where is the proof?
And so on …
We are dealing with entrenched belief and ingrained mythology, wordplay, and it must be taken step by step to reason and actual human reality … on the most personal level.
DW
Yep. And with the news that Gravel could get in the 2012 primary, let’s push for Obama to just admit he’s not the man for the job, and to let a real liberal or progressive give it a go! I know… I’m dreaming… We’re probably stuck with O for another 4 years. Yuck!
Thanks, otto,
;~DW
Yes, nonpartisanliberal, you are spot-on, in my view.
DW
And ONLY the people may change this sad reality.
The political class is quite happy with the status quo, ysd.
DW
LOL. Principle can be a very expensive thing, n’est-ce pas? Seriously, it was clear to me back in the 80′s that it would have to be the broadcast industry itself that took the role of fact-checkers, that nobody else was in a position to do it effectively, and my despair has deepened year after year as I saw right-wing oriented corporations buy up every broadcast and media outlet. MSNBC raised my hopes briefly, but when they declared themselves to be “the Establishment,” per Cenk’s account, I realized my hopes were false once again. I briefly worked in media for a major ad agency in the 70′s, and I remember that they taught me of the importance of “impact” in delivering a message. To me, in our time and situation, that would seem to call for more direct, in-your-face, confrontational language whenever we get near the megaphone, making the message unmistakably clear, but, unfortunately, also with the risk of appearing rude to an audience that is not yet aware that they are truth-deprived. Not a wholly effective tactic. It may well be that pain, which is coming forth in large doses, may be the thing that eventually forces the closed minds to open up. Wish it wereen’t so, but I fear it will be so. Classic revolutionary theory posits that forced change only happens when the pain level gets bad enough.
Your dialogue about how most people aren’t good at greed reminded me of some psychological research done after WWII that was partly interested in exploring why most infantrymen didn’t fire their weapons in combat (if I remember, it was something like 60%).* If killing is human nature, what could explain such a low efficiency rate?
What the psychologists found out was that psychopaths and sociopaths showed up in the combat arms at a frequency of 3 to 4 times their rate in the general population. Their conclusion was that these folks accounted for a disproportionate amount of the killing. In other words, when the majority of soldiers were just trying to stay alive or not go out of their way to shoot other people, this small minority of guys were really enjoying their job and enthusiastically firing their weapons.
Incidentally, it was because of research like this that the US military sought to adjust their training tactics toward increasing the percentage of soldiers firing their weapons in combat. Thanks to the new conditioning (e.g. bayoneting rubber mannequins instead of burlap sacks of straw), the rate has about doubled in the last 60 years. While killing might not be human nature, it sure as shit can be learned.
* There are similar studies related to the propensity of pilots to drop bombs versus napalm that suggest that the more distant the target (i.e. faceless), the more likely the use of the weapon.
ron paul would bring the troops home.. and end the fed.. if he disbanded the cia and america’s empire as well .. he might be worth all the negative things he does to the american people socially.
At this point i think the greatest danger to this country is the new world order people passing the nafta’s and waging the wars (every president since JFK). Those people trying to destroy the constitution. I can take a ron paul.. because our common enemy IS the new world order. Ron might set the country back a century or two.. but he wont destroy it like bush and obama are doing.
I will NOT vote for obama again.. he’s more destructive and effective passing right wing corporate welfare legislation than any professed republican president has ever been. Obama is simply bush III in all substance.
I understand and agree with everything you said here. I guess I just exempt myself because I’ve spent a lifetime working in the areas of psychology, media and communication, one way or another, and have always had a fetish about detecting falsity. By now, I’ve gotten pretty damn good at it. I don’t expect that from people who have not devoted a lifetime to that process. It takes a lot of discipline to resist the work of the hidden persuaders. But, to start, one has to be aware that one is being lied to constantly.
You don’t know Ron Paul then. Point to one instance where the man rhetoric hasn’t been consistent with his voting record. He and Kucinch hold the title of the most honest men in congress. You may not like his ideology but that is another matter.
“Classic revolutionary theory posits that forced change only happens when the pain level gets bad enough.”
Why should we be any different than any other animal? That frontal lobe is pretty recent and not all that’s up there. :)
Thank you for clarifying your point by using the Socratic method. I really was assuming that you were pointing to the disastrous effects of unregulated over-the-top greed that manifests itself in criminal enterprises, rather than the greed impulse directed into creative sublimation. I thought most people understand that greed is a state of desire in a cancerous form.
Again, thanks for your response.
Ah, otto, we’ve been over much of the same terrain, in history, which was, apparently your “field” and psycholgy, which was, once, mine, although history, real history, has long been a major interest of mine, as well.
We now must consider that much will have to be “un-learned”, espeically when the purpose of higher education is not to encourage original thought but merely to train willing “replacements”.
A discussion about the future of education (which one of those with whom I spoke this past week who is a school district social worker, when I remarked that he was “on the front-line”, replied that he had come to view education as but one of the “humdred arms of the beast” intent upon destroying civil society and democracy), is something I should truly enjoy engaging with you.
DW
Wordplay, your concerns are mine, and I appreciate your eloquence and clarity, as that is precisely where my wee conversation must go, and thence to the notion that a society has a fundamental obligation to protect itself from concentrations of both wealth and power.
And, as well to the recognition that “economic sytems” are like unto the games which children play … they are “made up” by the children and may be changed when the children recognize the need of such change.
DW
DW, old friend, you improve continuously, from a great starting point, like the finest of wines. Always a joy to read you, and you are at your best tonight, IMHO. Do you recognize your old comrade, albeit now in a new incarnation with, hopefully, fewer sharp elbows lol? (I adopted a new screen name when I recently became a member. I thought a fresh start was appropriate, especially since the consensus here seems to have moved much closer to what I used to get in trouble for advocating lol.)
Ah, so!
A pleasure to cross trails with you, once again.
;~DW
I don’t think we are very different from other mammals, we just have a better capacity for conceptual thought, which means nothing when we choose not to learn to use it.
What ever happened to the concept of “enoughness”? I bought into that as a teenager, and stayed with it. It’s immoral on a very basic level to consume more than you need in a world of finite resources. I guess having my mother tell me to clean my plate, because children were starving in Europe, really made an impression on me lol. Today, the Establishment tells us to go to the opposite extreme to be a good person.
“Enoughness” is the critical key to human survival.
As well the concept of: What is the being, here, worth to you? Assuming that “you” understand that “life” is magic and not to be destroyed by fearful little beings who lack the imagination to care or the ability to realize just how incredible the oppotunity of life actually is.
For the first time in our collective “history” and “psychology” we gaze, as a species, upon the possibility of our collective end, by or through any number of ways of means, all of our own devise …
That this reality is not totally sobering and to the forefront of considered thought and imagination, is not, by any means, a credit to any of us.
I hope that you might consider a diary upon “enoughness”, realitychecker, in this age of multi-dimensional chessery?
DW
It’s good to be participating again.
Uh… given what I have observed, over time, of children’s games, I see a need for responsible adults to intervene at crusial points in such games so as to avoid catastrophe… Former kids that have proven that they are worthy of Darwinian Law in the fuller sense of the term:
http://www.partnershipway.org/learn-more/partnership-books/darwins-lost-theory-on-love
The very structure of institutional education is undemocratic, from the dynamics of the lecture hall, to the textbooks full of Right Answers in need of memorization, to the final authority of the bell. And the public university where I work is run on a business model (to be fair, it is not wholly the fault of the institution because only a quarter of its operating expenses come from taxes.)
It is to quit my role as a willing “replacement,” a pedagogue in institutional education that I’m in the process of pursuing something called “unschooling.” Its main practitioner and promoter was John Holt–you might enjoy reading his books–and it is along the lines of A. S. Neill’s Sunshine School.
We’ll talk more when the subject of education comes up on another post.
I just might do that, if I can get more than half a nostril above water. I’ve been on a hard road lately.
Too true. And I apologize if there was a misunderstanding. My question at 160 was rhetorical. :)
John Holt is a favorite of mine, otto.
I am looking forward, as is said, to that further discussion.
Whither education?
DW
May your road become more gentle in its ups and downs, that you might find smoother sailing (to mix metaphors, a bit) approaching your horizons, rc.
(For true it is that I have been concerned for and about you … as you “disappeared” from view so abruptly, as it seemed to me.)
DW
Is that you, Mom?
No apology necessary, sir. We are in full agreement, and I was just agreeing with you. ;-)
I would never have left voluntarily without saying good-bye, my friend. Some long knives were out for me, and, poof, I was gone (with apologies to Keyser Sose (sic?) ). But now I’m back, and apparently will have less reason to misbehave. It sucks to be ahead of the curve. My curse, alas, LOL.
LOL. Nobody ever called me THAT before.
A curse I know all too well, around the bend …
It is with absolute pleasure, rc, that I welcome your “timely” re-turn …
Those who scout ahead are often met with displeaure by those whose eyes have not yet lifted from the ground beneath their feet to gaze further to the fore and, transported by imagination and intuiition, to grasp what lays beyond the common ken.
Namaste.
DW
Obama is a corporate tool.
Kinda says it all.
Obama needs to clear out his advisers asap and get some new ones.
Namaste, dear friend. And good night to all. Early morning tomorrow.
Thank you, wordplay, that link is very much appreciated. I shall definitely be checking out David Loye’s book.
DW
I wasn’t here back then, so I wonder if what you “got in trouble” for would have gotten me in trouble too. I’ve been onto Obama as a phony since 2007. I also don’t like enforced orthodoxy of thought.
I got banned from Huffington Post commentary long ago for pointing out Hillary Clinton’s faults. That and I made fun of conservative trolls and only some of the people understood and appreciated the ironic humor. Some mistook me for a conservative troll in spite of what should have been obvious giveaways. I’m not on a par with the brilliant Stephen Colbert, but I learned why Jon Stewart would do those playful “throws” (terminology?) at the end of his show with Colbert for the first several months that Colbert’s show was on the cable. It was to tip off the dimmer bulbs that Colbert was being satirical.
I am scared. Sick to my stomach scared. We are all living in a Tom Tomorrow cartoon. Lawlessness, self-serving idiocy, and grotesque solipsism prevail.
That’s debatable, but maybe Clinton has conned me into thinking he’s a Republican-ish Democrat and not an outright Republican mole like Obama.
The Republican party was written off as dead for a generation at the start of 2009. Obama quickly resuscitated it and is destroying the Democratic party from within by pushing through a very Republican agenda. (Not that the Democrats had much to offer us anyway.)
Namaste : )
My thoughts have been: reinstate the Fairness Doctrine and don’t allow any person or entity to have larger than a 10% share in more than one broadcast license. The corporate-friendly courts struck down ownership limits because they were “arbitrary” and needed to be based on objective some reasoning. My reasoning is that only allowing someone one license maximizes a diversity of speech and minimizes the concentration of power. So, take that, corrupt courts!
A most excellent discussion of “human nature”, Eric Patton, which I hope all at FDL might take a few moments to examine and consider.
I hope that you might do a series of diaries, if you have not already done so, putting forth, in your own words, the essence of Parecon, as it is a considered, thoughtful, and likely, “workable”, theory which has true merit and value for the larger discussion in which we must all engage.
The apparent unwillingness of many to engage serious discussion around economic “systems” is something that must be overcome, and slowly, may be overcome, or disarmed, as the gentle persistence selise has embraced regarding MMT most ably suggests.
Your voice would be a most welcome addition to this economic education which we all must embrace and engage.
I hope you may see this comment, Eric, as I meant to respond much earlier.
With much appreciation.
DW
I agree that the idea was to buy up mortgage assets that were threatening the banks’ solvency — but the purpose was to protect the banks when the mortgages went into default, not to protect the homeowners, yes?
Thank you very much.
Let me see what I can do.
Obama is a fraud.
De-elect the president.
VMT, you say “the White House follows whatever narrative is set in the press.” I think this is seriously backwards.
I think both Obama and the Republicans, sometimes separately, sometimes together, actively push the press to cover the issues that they want to see covered and from the angle(s) that they want.
Obama is heavily into control and doesn’t want unpleasant surprises. Same for the Republicans. So, they will bully and manipulate the press to suit their respective goals.
Otherwise, I think VMT’s observation is a good one: Watch what is playing in the press to see what Obama is up to.
Sister Jane, I read some summary accounts of the bill couple of weeks back but did not find a good analysis article to answer your question.
Primary change in the law as far as I can conclude from the accounts is change is from First to Invent to First to File which is pretty much in-line with what other countries have in place. Actually it might reduce legal head-aches for any body and make things simpler. But we never know as to what is lurking in the actual details due to inputs from $35K a plate dinners. From the details I read there was no such hint and looked like a clean bill.
Just like Social Security our Patent system is a very beautiful concept for the world having a wonderful heritage of Founding Fathers like Pres. Washington, Mr. Franklin being involved very much in its creation and initial operation. It incentives inventors and after a certain period that idea becomes the property of society as a whole. I just wish our executive branch and congress come up with such good concepts even now.
The White House does not seem to be able to conceive of actual governance as a viable option
thanks, Jane, for your accurate diagnosis of the state of the nation:
lawless chicanery
Some further thoughts on this important point: Bushco used the phrase “we make our own reality” to describe their outright fraud in fabricating false intelligence to justify war on Iraq.
By contrast, Obama and his bots use the opposite, Rumsfeldian, concept of “we have to deal with the reality we’ve got, not the reality we wish we had.” Thus, for Obama and his apologists, any real progressive legislation was impossible because it’s “just too hard; those mean Republicans and the Blue Dogs block us all the time.” Well, if it was too hard, he shouldn’t have applied for the job. No one was forcing him to take it.
Obama should have created a “new reality” by twisting arms as LBJ did. Rahm twisted plenty of arms: The arms of the Progressive Caucus. Instead, he should have twisted the arms of the DINO Republicans that he recruited to run in marginal districts in 2006 and 2008, pushing real progressive candidates off the ballot. You’d think he’d tell them they owed him something. But no. So, we couldn’t change “reality” and just had to pass the Heritage Foundation’s version of “health care reform” – i.e., insurance cartel bailout. The public hates it and that’s one key reason why Dems lost big-time in 2010.
Now, it’s too late. The country will be taking another hard right turn, into yet another new reality, even worse than the one we have now.
Ah the kabuki players are learning their parts for the new upcoming play. Rumor has it that the theatre manager will hand out empty sandwiches if the crowd claps louder and harder.
Obama’s promises mean nothing, zip, nodda. If fact, they mean that he will probably do the opposite of what he says he’ll do. He promised to do the things the people need and he turned around and did the opposite proving to me that it is our weaknesses that are being exploited.
By starting a conversation about this or that problem he gets the experts and those affected to explain just how things are tearing their world apart. Then the banks and the powerful take that info and use it to dismantle people’s lives and take their homes, properties, and businesses. Leaving everyone’s kids with nothing to inherit but being their slaves.
I wouldn’t listen to a word Obama says. I would in fact walk away from hearing him speak in any venue. He is a Wall Street tool and Im voting third party no matter what. Obama is a Republican and the official Republican candidate will be our other choice. In other words, you can vote Republican or third party. Anyone voting for the Repubs or the Repubs pretending to be for the people wearing a Dem label is a complete and total fool.
he does have options beyond being a corporate tool who lets his campaign manager rearrange the national lawn furniture.
When the Mafia extorts money from a storeowner, is the Mafia then considered a “tool” of the storeowner? I don’t think so.
Obama, as the patron, dispenses corrupt privilege to the banksters, his clients, and extracts from them tribute. If they don’t pay, they will be disfavored, which would suck because their existence depends on corrupt privilege.
Similarly, Eisenhower corruptly favored the oil producers with the oil depletion allowance and oil import quotas, disfavoring the petrochemical companies. He could have received tribute from the petrochemical companies by favoring them, instead, but it would not have been corrupt because their interest was the same as the public’s in desiring cheaper oil.
Similarly, had Obama pushed for the public option, that would have disfavored the insurance industry.
If Obama acted in the public interest, there would be reductions in tribute to the party oligarchy. This would make them very unhappy, and they would rather lose an election than tolerate independent action, but not only and not especially because of the lost revenue, but because nothing threatens the oligarchy more than an elected official responsive to the electorate: that would make people hopeful, and among the hopeful there would be honest people who wanted to work for change by becoming active in the party. Neither party wants a bunch of independent citizens, preferring instead a amall and manageable number of reliable hacks.
As the Senate Leader, the Bourbon LBJ twisted arms to obstruct reform.
When running for re-election, he promised not to send American boys to Vietnam and to make war on poverty.
The larger part of his “war on poverty” was sending poor, black men to Vietnam.
Had I been smarter, I would have known that, promised “hope and change,” what I would get is no change and lots of hopelessness.
Since Wilson, whatever a Dem promises is exactly what you won’t get.
I think the last real progressive (by “real” I mean someone who actually tried to deliver on his promises and, in Wisconsin, actually did deliver) was Robert Marion La Follett, whom Walter Karp called “the last great republican* of consequence in American history.”
*small ‘r’ intended, though he was also a Republican.
Every site does some censoring, and probably needs to for self-protection. There’s no doubt in my mind that FDL gives the most latitude, and has the best and most thoughtful people and writers. I wouldn’t waste my time at the alternatives.
That would be great if we could do it, but I don’t see any way we can do it. We are painted into a corner now.
Yes maybe a bit of Ray LaHood’s bravado when Lahood told Scot Walker what could be done with the $800M in rail money other than build rail, NOTHING!