Dylan’s rant has spawned a twitter page – lotsa folks going to their virtual windows

Are they tweeting in Atlanta ?

wow, that was honest and impressive. Damn brave of Dylan. I’m now wondering how long until Ratigan is replaced by Van Jones.

Funny that someone telling the truth with passion, is accused of “ranting”
Dylan is probably going to get the pink slip now just as Cenk did.

i guess we can start looking for MSNBC to fire him. Although Ratigan came from wal st. he may still have powerful freinds. Hes not a loner like Olberman, or an unconnected blogger like Attaturk.

Ratigan definitely was not acting – he meant it. Really comes through.

Exactly my take yesterday as I saw it live. Agree 100% Jane.

Whole different deal.

Funny, how Dylan is ‘working on his book’ today…! *gah*

“The tribal left-right battles are manufactured to make sure the participants don’t notice that. As long as they’re firing at each other, rank and file partisans are guaranteed to shoot past the true architects of our current economic malaise.’

this is most apparent if you watch MSNBC’s morning programming (i dare you to)..and its not really left / right its Democrat/Republican…they are soooo obviously pushing that pile of crap as the coorect and acceptable context to have the “debate”.. its all staged and of course, any voice outside of that dynamic is unacceptable to them.

Thanks for the Kevin Drum link – excellent and alarming article.

I suspect that Dylan is safe on MSNBC. Of course the company that he is paid handsomely by is one of the companies that he is ranting about. Since there is no concerted effort in this country to act upon his rant, it just remains a sort of verbal masturbation. It feels good when you’re doing it, but a bit spent when it’s finished. Fire and brimstone signifying nothing.

The populace has just enough “skin in the game” for things not to turn into what we are witnessing all over England. Over there hope has been lost, and here enough suckers still think that some day they’ll make it big. Polls show that people want progressive solutions, but the system is rigged so as never to threaten big money.

What a wonderful “rant.” Imagine – the truth spoken like that every day by our prez. Surely would make a difference but it’s not going to happen. I hope that Obama sees it anyway.

Watch out! You’re not allowed to call it “class warfare” when the rich are winning.

I guess Obama really heard him because he is about to go off on vacation, play some golf, and raise money from the people who own the politicians

Is that the explanation for why he is not on air?

Speaking of ranters …

I don’t fault advertising that supports FDL, but Jim Cramer’s mug on the RH side bar of this post, touting his Trade Like a Hedge Fund Manager is the terminal diagnosis of irony.

Morning Joe, headed up by Deadinternguy, tries desperately to paint the left and the right as equally crazy, making him, along with the Mustache of Understanding and DavidfuckingBrooks the reasonable center. The Dylan Rant however, exposes the man behind the curtain to us tribal residents and shows us who is stealing our money legally sanctioned by purchased politicians. No mention of Unions, or teh Gay, or abortion or scary brown people. Just a bunch of old white guys in suits with a giant siphoning hose shoved into the gashole of America, draining us dry.

Brilliant redirection. Now comment on what he said.

I loved it…THE US IS BEING RAIDED. Wouldn’t it be nice if the pres would just say it and fix it?

That’s what Matt said at the top of the hour…! Interestingly, Matt will be interviewing Dylan about the ‘rant’…!

Hate to disagree, but this is just more of the “Both sides are to blame” nonsense that permeates cable today, only with a big dose of outrage.

Of course his basic point is correct, but 85% of the fault lies with the GOP and their Tea Party minions.

Democrats being weak and spineless make up the other 15.

The guy is a loose drone, no guidance system, has no clue what to aim at. That means whoever controls his last direction defines the target.

All he knows is that the country is being looted by the banks or someone and “they” are doing it to “us.” Yes, its not your usual tribal dichtomy, but it also lends itself to fascist solutions and demagogues. Then he wants an infrastructure bank, but what does it mean? Some notions are basically a way for Wall Street to syphon fed dollars through them. Please. When he gets an order of magnitude more coherent, wake me up.

Bi-partisanship has come to mean both parties get together to screw the workingman

Jane, He his 100% correct, and the wall street sob’s are allowing this to happen in front of our eyes. Its the old bate and switch game, that auto salesmen use. Wellcome to the world of electronic trading, now you see it and now its gone!

Allow me. Firedoglake does not endorse any claims or claimants advertising on its site. By removing a particular ad would indeed be viewed as an endorsement of all ads not removed. Very dangerous stuff, that censorship thing.

Of course his basic point is correct, but 85% of the fault lies with the GOP and their Tea Party minions.

Democrats being weak and spineless make up the other 15

The Democrats are in on it. They are not spineless. They take tough stands against us all the time.

The “Democrats are just weak” meme has to stop. It’s systemic. It’s not one bad actor that we can “reform”. The problem is much bigger and badder.

If that kind of truthful rant were spoken by Obama he would be a martyr along with King and the Kennedys. You don’t make it to the WH by upsetting the powerful and questioning the system of corruption they have built up.

From comfortably inside my tribalist fortress, I agree. But I think the President bears much of the blame. He must set the tone. And that does not come from bi partisan bullshit.

More rants, please …

In the Emperor’s New Clothes, only a young child says what he sees — that the sovereign is naked. Everyone else has an interest in maintaining the fiction.

The tribal left-right battles are manufactured to make sure the participants don’t notice that. As long as they’re firing at each other, rank and file partisans are guaranteed to shoot past the true architects of our current economic malaise.

Bullseye.

My main take was the “purchased Congress” and its inability to reasonably regulate anything that interferes with campaign contributions. The middle class is broke and fed up with Congress, so that source of revenue is thin gruel. The only major players left are the major players in need of regulation and pay for the Laissez Faire approach.

This statement is so true:

The tribal left-right battles are manufactured to make sure the participants don’t notice that. As long as they’re firing at each other, rank and file partisans are guaranteed to shoot past the true architects of our current economic malaise.

One of the things I’ve been doing recently is to talk to folks about the systemic corruption in both the Democratic and Republican Parties. I have to tell you that I get a better reception from Republicans than I do Democrats. It seems that the tribalism we see in the Democratic Party base blinds us to how utterly corrupt key figures in the House and Senate are. Can anybody really say that Max Baucus isn’t fundamentally corrupt? Sadly the same is true for Reid and the rest of his cronies in the Senate. If we look at the House it ain’t much better, just go look at the New Democratic Caucus as a starter -

That’s what I meant — it’s ironic coincidence, not an endorsement.

Obama is determined to cut Social Security and Medicare – indeed his extension of the Bush tax cuts was to get a reason for those cuts.

http://my.firedoglake.com/papau/2011/08/10/extending-the-bush-tax-cuts-in-2010-to-get-socsecmedicare-cuts/

See http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/can-the-middle-class-be-saved/8600/

I hope MSNBC fires him so Al Gore can hire him to follow Olbermann on Current TV

I just got home from work and,………….. Dylan is not hosting his show today??!! Could be trouble.

I did the same thing. When I saw the ad I thought, “What the hell…?”

obama the wall street shill telling the american people that banks suck and are killing the country??

we have a better chance of saving SS then ever seeing that happen.

look…the war is on!..it ends with former killers now employed by the state dept. patrolling your neighborhood with ak-47s.

“The tribal left-right battles are manufactured to make sure the participants don’t notice that. As long as they’re firing at each other, rank and file partisans are guaranteed to shoot past the true architects of our current economic malaise.”

Another masterful rendition by Jane of our fake Potemkin village “2 party” system. What we have in the US is what the USSR had – lots of elections but no choices becuase all the candidates are owned/controlled by the power elite.

And the truth could get you fired, isn’t that the truth!

DR has been consistant with his message for years although at times I think he grasping for a pol who he hopes will hear and act on that message (Tom Coburn comes to mind) That said I think DR is honest and feels passion for what he believes and I think he wants the country to succeed…I was watching today’s show with Matt Miller and Jonathan Capeheart ugh! Jonathan talking about how Americans need to know pain is coming (with austerity) and he only hopes Americans will accept this and not riot..Capeheart trots out the shared pain nonsense…please

Yeah, we’ll hear stuff like this spoken in the cadences of Dr. King when Obama gets into his black campaign persona, sleeves rolled up, fire in his eyes, and bullshit coming out of his mouth, spoken like a righteously offended friend of the working poor.

Just don’t agree with you. They both play a very important role in screwing us over. Both are equally to blame. There are just as many Dem/Wall St bribes as there are Rep/Wall St bribes. You can look at any campiagn donations list and see that the Dems get just as much money from these crooks as the Repubs get.

Actually, I particularly enjoy the idea of Liberty University’s ad money supporting our FDL community which opposes everything they stand for — i.e. christian dominionist redefining of the U.S. Constitution.

Dylan on the phone w/ his program now

must read

http://ampedstatus.org/exclusive-analysis-of-financial-terrorism-in-america-over-1-million-deaths-annually-62-million-people-with-zero-net-worth-as-the-economic-elite-make-off-with-46-trillion/

Wall St is robbing us blind. No doubt.

But I think the biggest entity screwing this country is the MIC. Not only does it pull trillions out of our economy but it also leads to unnecessary death and animosity throughout the world that just continues the cycle.

Dylan makes his point.

HOWEVER, he suffers from the myopia that many of the left’s few remaining champions, such as Messrs Reich and Krugman, exhibit.

They still, mystifyingly(a real word?), think that Obama isn’t IN ON THE WHOLE DEAL!

What it will take for them to finally see the light, who knows?

But, take this past week, and extend it for at least five more years, regardless of who is elected to the Oval Office in 2012. There is no daylight at the end of this tunnel.

And while I appreciate all the attempts at raising awareness levels of critical issues, and more importantly the TRUTH of the issues, here at FDL and its partner sites, I am TOTALLY cynical about the overall effect it is having, or will have. It is great for us, the choir, but useless against the overall ignorance out there.

I’ve been reading up this week on the Dunning Kruger effect, which describes a cognitive bias in which people perform poorly on a task, but lack the meta-cognitive capacity to properly evaluate their performance. As a result, such people remain unaware of their incompetence and accordingly fail to take any self-improvement measures that might rid them of their incompetence. Interestingly enough, it shows that those who are less intelligent have a much higher opinion of their intelligence, and are more dubious of others’ intelligence, than those at the upper end, who tend to give more credit than those less well endowed, and less to themselves overall.

The arrogance of ignorance, and the humility of intelligence, in short.

For anyone interested, here is an interview with David Dunning:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/dunning-kruger-effect/

Apply this to our electorate, and the nearly complete inability to draw simple connections between those they elected and the current situation in which we find ourselves, then tell me we have even half a chance this generation.

We’re in a class war. The rich are getting wealthy at the expense of everyone else, raping and pillaging both the economy and the middle class. Things continue to get better for them as they get worse for you, and both parties are complicit in making that happen

Nailed it again, Jane.

One of the things I’ve been doing recently is to talk to folks about the systemic corruption in both the Democratic and Republican Parties. I have to tell you that I get a better reception from Republicans than I do Democrats.

I’ve been doing the same thing. It’s been a mixed-bag reception, whether friends identify Repub or Dem. I have duly noted the inherent & rather intransigent & authoritarian tribalism of my trad-Dem friends… pretty much on par with any T-GOPer I know. They are ALL “dug into” their party politics as usual.

Some Republicans I know are willing to countenance that we’ve ALL been “had,” and that it might be time to consider other options. These people probably qualify more as what are called “swing voters” and/or “independents.”

While I have some Dem friends who *refuse* to see one thing wrong with the “Democratic” party and/or Obama, I DO have some trad-Dem friends who would totally fit right in at FDL.

I recommend FDL to *everyone* possible, no matter how they typically vote. My goal is to *encourage* & *facilitate* citizens into breaking their boundaries and, as they say, think “outside the box.”

The right v. left paradigm DIED in 2000 or before…. there simply is nothing to be gained by the old-school, so 20th C Repub v. Dem arguments. We only have a One party Oligarchy party, and they’re bleeding the middle and working classes dry, no matter how we vote.

Good tirade from Ratigan. Maybe he didn’t have enough solutions, but geez, gotta start somewhere.

Olbermann’s ego wouldn’t be able to handle that.

en fuego wrt Trade Agreements !

The question is how much longer will the income disparity continue? I suspect we could see London style riots in the near future. Of course, then there will be plenty of money for police to quell the uprising of the malcontents.

I see Cameron has authorized the use of rubber bullets and water cannons in Great Britian. I don’t think that is going to do much good. The protestors will just hit where the police aren’t. I suspect Cameron will be looking for a job before this is over. Conservative solutions just don’t work, but for whatever reason they keep finding a way to get them implemented.

Maybe if enough people stand up and identify the problem, enough people in the USA who are just too damn complacent, or ignorant, will wake up and see that the middle class, laft and right, MUST be on the same side. The bigger problem, we have no political party speaking for US, working for US. OUr legislaturds are bought and paid for by the wealthy and the filthy rich corporations.

We are, in fact, in quite a pickel.

Add me to that list.

That’s how I saw it, too. I guess I wasn’t listening carefully enough, which is hard to do when someone is shouting at you. It seemed to me that he mixed in truth and falsehood in about equal proportions (maybe a bit more truth than falsehood). Jane’s right about the basic, though. He went off script and lifted the curtain. He probably spent the rest of the day in the woodshed.

“Maybe if enough people stand up and identify the problem, enough people in the USA who are just too damn complacent, or ignorant, will wake up and see that the middle class, laft and right, MUST be on the same side”

Yes, somewhere in an alternate reality the Tea Party brushes up against Move On.Org. The TP is too dim and gullible in the finest American tradition of anti-intellectualism to understand who their real enemies are, and the Left is left out in the cold because that don’t have an echo chamber media.

Glad you said it. My exact reaction. I would not have been totally surprised to hear him say that the Jews Are Sucking Us Dry.

Not going to happen. The same people who own the politicians own them.

On top of which, we, the people of the USA, are not even “enjoying” any kind of financial stimulus – as we did during WWII – from having these senseless wars of aggression.

I am totally opposed to these useless, senseless Wars, Inc which have served, among many other heinous things, only to make USA citizens LESS SAFE, not more. That aside, at the very least, IF Team USA were to enjoy some financial stimulus from War, Inc, well… there *might* at least be that. Not that it would justify them.

But it’s even MORE aggravating to realize that the money that YOU and I are *forced* to spend on WAR, INC, inures to the benefit of third world countries including putative “enemies,” Communist China (I use the modifier bc I thought conservatives *hated* communism, yet they are doing everything under the sun to stimulate China’s economy while worsening the USA’s).

The inherent stupidity that citizens exhibit about this is galling and frustrating. It’s a double or triple whammy, at least. Senseless WAR, Inc, with USA & other countries’ citizens being killed, maimed, raped, robbed, plundered… no one is ANY “better off,” and to top it off, it is ONLY benefiting other countries – not the USA – in terms of any financial stimulus.

Sheesh!!! Talk about insanity. Yet far too many USA citizens – including trad-Dem voters – continue to support the notion of War, Inc, as somehow being some bitter medicine that’s “for our own good.” INSANITY.

Couldn’t have said it half so well.

Nope. Dylan’s not on. Some guy I don’t know, but the network might be trying to balance out Dylan’s rant…because they’ve got some comic on talking about plane companies.
They’re scrambling, I think.

The good thing about British politics is that Cameron is expendable to the Conservative party. They have a lot of talent in the wings, and not all of it wingnut talent, since they are the party of the gentry (of whom he is one, I admit). But he needs them more than they need him. Not the same here in the US, where politics is a free enterprise industry. All it takes is enough cash to capture one of the two parties, and you are halfway there.

The rape of the republic by corporate scum aided by the undue influence of corporate money on policymakers. Lets call it what it is protect the slave-owners, and fuck the slaves. So much for opportunity when Americans are pinched and pigeonholed into servitude by fucking dirt-bags…. Ratigan is on point and only addressing what Jefferson knew would happen.

I did say “maybe”. :-)
Honestly, even I don’t believe what I said. Educating the TEA partyers is about as likely as Harpo Marx winning a hog calling contest.

The child doesn’t know what’s good for him – the authoritarian distinction between child and adult. The fool would be a useful leaker – see what we do with the truth-teller?

JJ, that quote probably won’;t fly on Disney-owned ABC World News, but I congratulate you for your candidity.

U and the crow smoking crack?

JJ, you sound like the kinda guy we want on our team. We’re getting together at the Chick-Fil-A on 11th, at 10:00AM. They have the BEST cole slaw and chicken noodle soup. Can you come???

What’s happening in Britain is, I believe, a preview of our future. The arsonists there have stumbled upon what is probably the perfect asymmetrical tactic to defeat a corporatist oligarchy in a highly developed country with an aggresssive security apparatus. No organization required, no mass targets for the police to shoot at, and more property targets than can ever be defended. It doesn’t matter what high-minded issues we here choose to debate, the actors in such an insurrection will be the uneducated, hopeless, furious people who will be self-motivated lone actors. I won’t join them, but I will root for them. I want my country back.

no one is ANY “better off,”

Might want to check out the graph, the folks at the top are one hell of alot better off.

In my house, we were standing and clapping and shouting “yeah”!!!!!

Fuck corporate America! Money grubbing bastards just like those crack addicts?

Isls: Chick-Fil-A????????

‘Cause that’s just how you are. And, I’m glad.

If you oppose it you wind up like JFK etc

I liked DR’s monologue, however I wish he had articulated that the problems he talked about is not particular to America but a global attack on sovereign nations.

Authoritarian Society the super conservative rich are desperate to control everything and everyone. Hard to control a middle class that has assets. The working poor are their slaves.
Dylan is right they are taking the assests and hiding them wherever they can get a tax/assests haven. For a nice payoff cheaper than taxes that is where the money has gone.

Howard Beale lives. The looks on the Beltway Welfare Sisters were priceless. But there is only one leader…say the GOP. But…but… what would you do?

Now they can call Ed Schultz “the calm one”.

A Howard Beal moment. So refreshing to hear the truth on the corporate media. Obama is a disaster for the U.S. public and the nation at large. There’s more to leadership than a snappy dresser and someone that gives good speech.

Watts II

We’re cursed with too few Shakepearean fools, and too many Tom Friedmans, David Brooks’ & Chris Matthews’.

Yeah, the assholes in DC and Wall Street will keep the bullshit going until the people just can’t handle it any longer and at that point neighbor turns against neighbor and blood runs like rivers down U.S. streets.

Exactly; self-interest is the tool of psychopaths.

They are the characters in a modern day tragedy unfolding in the U.S..

Or Paul Wellstone or MLK or Medgar Evers or Malcom X or Emmit Till. If you stand up to the status quo you will suffer the consequences.

Conservative solutions just don’t work, but for whatever reason they keep finding a way to get them implemented.

Oh, they work. They work horribly well. They lead to an entrenchment of privilege – which is exactly where this system must go.

It seems rather obvious to me, especially with the Britain example staring us right in our faces. Except, unlike Watts, where they burned their own neighborhoods, the Brits seem to know that it’s better to burn the property of the oppressor class. It’s ironic, the power elite always assumed they could promote the law of the jungle and always win, because they had enough men with guns to protect them. This version of the law of the jungle cannot be defended against, however, and also can bring the oligarchs down without killing actual human beings. Just their buildings.

1968 It was a bad year……..

THANK YOU JANE. It is a bit sad so very few commenters appear to have read the ‘must read’ by drum you pointed out.
From the ‘must read’:”If the left ever wants to regain the vigor that powered earlier eras of liberal reform, it needs to rebuild the infrastructure of economic populism that we’ve ignored for too long. Figuring out how to do that is the central task of the new decade.”

Dylan’s rant is all well and good BUT he doesn’t make clear that Obama is as ‘bought and sold’ as the Congress critters he lambastes.

And he fails to point out how the PTB’s decided providing easy credit was the ‘answer’ to higher wages.

What you see in Britain won’t happen here. The sheep have just enough to keep them satisfied. That is the genius of this system – just give them enough to be docile. What you saw in WI since January is about as good as it’s going to get, and even that failed.
So you say “I want my country back”? Lol! The joke is on you, it never was your country (or any of ours). There is only the illusion that it’s your country. Any civic spiritedness that we are all in this together pretty much ended around 1945.

We’re in a class war.  The rich are getting wealthy at the expense of everyone else, raping and pillaging both the economy and the middle class. Things continue to get better for them as they get worse for you, and both parties are complicit in making that happen.

It’s why I no longer identify as a Dem. They are not only complicit, they are active participants. Just, in many ways, more dishonest than the Republicans. Or maybe it’s my upbringing – the lies and hypocrisy of the Rs are well-known and long-standing to me, while I remember a time when the Ds were pretty much doing what they said they’d do.

At any rate, the “flubs” and “weaknesses” of the Ds have been far too consistently benefitting the wealthy/powerful over everyone else for too long to be accidental, and lately, they aren’t even bothering to pretend. When equality and social support are always the things that just can’t be addressed now, in this crisis, it’s time to say goodbye.

I don’t even bring this up with my folks anymore, as it seems to make them want to cry, and worry about me. They’re in their 80s, and living in not-Austin Central Texas, where they are generally regarded as wild-eyed liberals.

I have other theoretically liberal friends who are also unable to give up their memories long enough to see today’s reality. Remembering my folks, I try to sound quiet and dispassionate, and point out easily-verified things to think about. However, for many, it seems their emotional attachment is too strong to overcome even Obama’s repeated public statements about wanting his “Grand Bargain” of cutting SS/M/M.

It’s very apparent on Morning Joe.

thanks oilfieldguy for doing the honors

Dylan will be on the Mike Malloy show tonight! {another hero who speaks the truth!}

The U.S. public are nothing but puppets. All a politician has to do is wave the flag and say the “U.S., greatest country in the world!” and the puppets nod in agreement and begin chanting “We’re number 1″

The only ones taking casualties in this class war are the poor, the elderly and the working and middle class. It’s time the plutocracy begin feeling the pain.

Corporations and politicians holding a nation and people hostage enabled by the undue influence of corporate money on the political process? Jefferson?

So much for opportunity and the republic. Protect myopic self interest and greed. Like the institution of slavery………….

The dems are far more dishonest IMO. The cons aren’t trying to hide the fact that they want to get rid of SS and Medicare and protect the rich. Hell they’ve been doing it for years. It’s the dems who pretent to want to protect the new deal and the working people. Their feined outraged it really sickening and insulting to anyone with at least a little intelligence. It’s terribly tragic that people can not relate what is going on in their lives to the reasons it is happening.

No, you miss the point. The Brits doing the damage have nothing, and soon here we will have a huge underclass with nothing and nothing to hope for. It won’t be us Firepups. As to “my country,” it was never as bad as it is now, and I want to have as much freedom and privacy as I had 40 years ago. For starters. But that’s an aside. We will probably get saved by rioters, not by any of our fellow civilized debaters.

Absolutely right. The Democrats are enemies of the people and the rich are always the mortal enemies of the people.

In a handful of years people won’t have enough fingers to proclaim our status in the world. I mean how do you show that “we’re 27, we’re 27?”

I could be totally wrong but I heard it a little differently. He said the only way it was going to change was if the President actually decided to lead — not that he expected him to.

Which was why Karen Finney jumped in and said “blah blah Republicans not his fault yadda yadda” and the Republican went into “exactly Dylan it’s the President’s responsibility” GOP attack mode.

At what point does a “rioter” become a “revolutionary?”

BT: Did you get that from “The Simpsons”???

Mike Malloy rawks!

He was the MC at the impeach Bush forum we helped organize about 5 years ago

If we could get UP to #21, I can handle that.

I think the rifle is the determining factor.

Is that a scenario from the Simpsons?

In 1776 it was called a musket.

And they have been so indoctrinated that they will be content with being 27th. Likely they won’t even know they are now 27th because who will tell them? A corrupt and illegitimate political class. A complicit corporate media?

I don’t know. It just sounded like something Homer would say.

Granted a musket would be very nostalgic AND sykmbolic. But, I think a rifle would probably more efficient today.

Note to DHS: I am not discussing overthrowing any government here or abroad.

when you have only your life and family to lose? Recall how the king called US terrorists, insurgents, traitors? Those people where, Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc, who put it all on the line for an idea. A far cry from the opportunistic cannibalizing corporate scum in America today, aided by scumbag politicians….

Nor do I advocate same.

Damn FSIS!!!

No, I got your point. I know that those Brits in the street have lost all hope. We haven’t reached that point – yet. The working class here still have their fun and games to occupy them , and then there is always that resentment against the govt. and govt workers (“Ah those guys have it so good, what are they bellyaching about?”) that seems to keep their rage going at a manageable level. I don’t see riots in the streets here, but bringing pitchforks and torches into the House gallery does have its own appeal:-)

That should FISA.

It all comes back down to what we were discussing via the webinar. How best to build up a viable 3rd party, or run a primary challenger.

What’s the other option, short of blood in the streets?

I hate it when I screw up a good joke…twice.

I’m actually with you dear. Let’s give the third party a try first. WE can always got to PLan B afterwards.

[The left] needs to rebuild the infrastructure of economic populism.

Uh-huh. While under attack. While completely out-maneuvered. Under decades of demonization. During catastrophic finance-quakes.

Right.

No, neo-feudalism is in your waking future because too many were dreaming the delusions of empire.

See, I remembered you.

+2

And the Repugs are earnest – they go after the future they see as inevitable. The Democrats won’t admit that is their destination too.

An interesting theoretical question, but it really doesn’t matter whether the actors have any elevated political awareness, or even a shared ideology beyond blind rage. An epidemic of arson will destroy the illusion of order that the oligarchy requires.

Recall how the king called US terrorists, insurgents, traitors?

Except now it’s the President, and TPTB, calling us terrorists, etc. Whatta diff, huh?

RFK… the list is endless

You are focused on the working class. I am focused on the class that can’t get any work, and there are more than enough of them to get the job done. And they will act up when they can no longer get the basics of life. Why wouldn’t they? The oligarchs are making the mistake of depriving those people of having even enough “scraps” to keep them docile. They will reap the predictable harvest of their reckless, boundless greed, and there will never be enough paid killers to guard all the buildings.

Then he wants an infrastructure bank, but what does it mean? Some notions are basically a way for Wall Street to syphon fed dollars through them. Please.

Amen.

Nonsense. The endgame here is to unleash civil war. The working class will be the first to suffer in such scenario.

WOW! Thanks Jane. I rarely get to watch Dylan. He’s one of the most, if not THE most, honest on TEEVEE.
And he’s right. Obama need to step up to the plate if he’s to have any credibility at all. The blame game isn’t working anymore.

When i went to the Sexy Liberals show with Stephanie Miller and she said Obama had done everything he sad he’d do, the audience was absolutely FLAT.

People know it was him, even people who don’t pay attention much know Obama’s bipartisanship is NOT what they voted for.
I think his chances for re-erection are vanishing and I hate to think we may get another gerrymandered president….like ))))))shuddder((((((( Perry!

Nowhere to run to baby, nowhere to hide.

70 TRILLION?

Is he less coherent than the other people on TV? So called “rants” take place when others are meekly avoiding huge issues. If the shills on Morning Joe were awake to the fact that there is no justification for a financial system where the average time a stock is held for is 7 seconds, then yes DR might seem over the top. But that’s not really the situation is it?

And speaking of waking people up, isn’t his point that Obama has to wake the American people up to the fact that as Durbin put it, “the banks own this place” and as such, they are able to write laws that allow them to extract money with no risk? Obama should tell the American people that they (=the Banks) are screwing us (=the American people) and they are using a corrupt government to do it. Not sure how anybody can argue with that and call themselves progressive.

“those who are less intelligent have a much higher opinion of their intelligence, and are more dubious of others’ intelligence, than those at the upper end, who tend to give more credit than those less well endowed, and less to themselves overall.”

I have long thought this was the case. Of course Socrates got himself executed for going around Athens showing people they were ignorant and that what they thought was true wasn’t. For him, the first step on the road to knowledge is to realize what you don’t know, to map the contours of your own ignorance (as I like to put it). I’ve also long thought that the best thing I got out of college is an understanding of how much I didn’t know and a respect for those who have really worked to educate themselves.

A corollary to this is expressed by the proverb “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” Those who are less intelligent/educated are thus made the prey of Fox News and Limbaugh/Beck. They glom on the disinformation they get there and immediately think they know it all. They thus close their ears to anything that challenges their received wisdom.

Yes, this may be showing what the future holds in store for us.

Hilarious! An infrastructure bank to get the money out of politics. Maybe he meant … get the politics out of money? Yeah, another truth-teller who can’t make sense for two minutes.

He’s right about the money taking over the system.
I watched some of the Wisconsin elections last night and I could hardly stomach the “We need to fight on”. I don’t know about anybody else, but I’m not David to the fascists Goliath and I don’t think people can keep up against the overwhelming $$$ machines of guys like the Kocks.

Here’s Thom Hartmann’s take on it:

Democracy Died First in Wisconsin – Long Live the Oligarchs

The Wisconsin recall election was the first major test of the new era in American politics. That new era began in January of 2010 when the US Supreme Court ruled in “Citizens United v. FEC” that the political voice of We The People was no longer as important as the voices of billionaires and transnational corporations.

Now we know the result, and it bodes ill for both 2012 and for the tattered future of small-d democracy in our republic. A few of America’s most notorious oligarchs – including the Koch and the DeVos (Amway fortune) billionaires – as well as untraceable millions from donors who could as easily be Chinese government-run corporations as giant “American” companies who do most of their business and keep most of their profits outside the US – apparently played big in this election.

I say “apparently” because the Supreme Court has ruled that we no longer have the right to know who is really funding our election commercials, or even our candidates themselves. Thanks to an irrational and likely illegal Supreme Court ruling, we have moved into an era of oligarch-run politics. As much as $40 million of our oligarch’s money was spent in Wisconsin in a handful of local races – a testing laboratory for strategies that will now be used against Democrats nationwide in 2012.

And so now we enter the battle of the oligarchs over the next fifteen or so months. As the old saying goes, when the elephants fight, the mice get trampled. In this case, the mice aren’t just the voters. It’s democracy itself. America is now – demonstrably, as proven by Wisconsin – just a few years away from the possibility of a totally corrupted, totally billionaire- and corporate-controlled political system. Political scientists call it oligarchy.

The Citizens United election experiment is over, and the oligarchs won. Long live the oligarchy.

-Thom

it’s not just the Teaparty that can’t see clearly. In fact your statement, and lack of acknowledgment of the Democrats sycophantic apologists is dripping with Irony. Every clown needs a straight man but they are both on the stage playing a part.

Heres just one example of anti-intellectualism on the left from Cenk Uygers diary yesterday: Obama’s Tipping Point

The Kevin Drum article gives a clear diagnosis of the problem: that without union strength the liberal left just doesn’t have enough clout. He doesn’t think the unions will ever return to their former power, so the challenge is to build some kind of organization – aside from a political party – that can do what the unions did. What this might be I have no idea at this point.

If you haven’t read the article by Kevin Drum Jane references above folks really need to – it sheds some interesting light in how we got here and leaves you with an interesting question of what to do next.

Clearly for me these two data streams – Dylan’s rant and Drum’s article makes me wonder about the utility of the Democratic Party. If it has become, as Drum suggests, just another route for the rich and powerful to influence Government actions it seems wholly useless for our goals of a better society.

We really need some creative thinking to get out of this box.

Let’s be clear, I’m not advocating, only observing and thinking. War with guns is almost certainly a prescription for defeat, but war on buildings, like what is happening in Britain, is a very different story. The actors can do what they do, without any central organization or planning, and get away before they can be targeted by the police, and the system could easily be overwhelmed with that tactic, with minimal loss of human life. Just a lot of dead buildings, and the ownership class will take the loss directly. Minimal collateral damage. The Brits are showing right now how easy and effective that asymmetrical tactic is. I believe the corporatist endgame here is not civil war, but rather to suck out all the capital before they relocate to Asia and other developing markets, where the fast growth will be for the foreseeable future. If it gets too uncomfortable or costly for them here, they may be persuaded to depart head of their preferred schedule, while we still have some capital and spirit left to rebuild from within.

I read that and he didn’t say anything about the recall elections, which did manage to replace two of the most powerful Republicans with union-friendly (I hope) Democrats, bringing the Repug majority to just one vote. In the face of money pouring into Wisconsin from the Kochs and dirty tricks mailings to voters (giving wrong date for voting and wrong polling places) and given that the two victories were in conservative districts, this is no mean achievement for a newly activized movement.

Until millions are living in tin and cardboard huts under super hi ways over passes, feeding their kids from dumpsters the powers to be will complain that they have too much and are moochers.

“the finest American tradition of anti-intellectualism”

You got that right!

Chick-Fil-A owners are politically active anti-gay Christian fundamentalists …

…continuing its anti-gay ways and signed up as a $2,000 lunch sponsor the Citizens for Community Values’ 24th annual Golf Classic in Cincinnati, Ohio on September 6. The event has a $110 entry fee and the CCV is “officially associated” with … Family Research Council (FRC), Focus on the Family (FoF) and the American Family Association (AFA), all of which are batshit crazy have disgusting records of extreme anti-gay rhetoric.

Yes, it seems that what is mostly going on is looting (a lot by teens), not rioting and some feeling that it’s payback for the vast income inequality there (said to be bigger than ours). But smallish fast moving gangs burning vehicles and crashing shops are proving to be beyond the ability of the police numbers to handle.

Telling the truth is hardly masturbation. It reminds me of when Howard Dean made his “What I want to know” speech. It rings in the air. Even in the rank air of Washington.

What Dylan said is exactly what should be said by A presidential candidate. Obama won’t say it. So who is going to primary him and ask him to address the question, “why are we systemically bleeding our country to death?”

No offense because it’s not just you, but this kind of snobbery ensures your expectations will come true:

Honestly, even I don’t believe what I said. Educating the TEA partyers is about as likely as Harpo Marx winning a hog calling contest.

Most of the looting is of local shops, according to the UK Guardian. Local people are starting to patrol their neighborhoods to keep the looters out. They’re hurting ordinary people’s livelihoods, but many of the looters are youth with no economic prospects, no stake in society. Apparently also the policing is just horrendous, black youth in some areas are stopped and searched daily from the time they’re 10 or so, so hatred of the police is rampant.

… the ownership class will take the loss directly.

And their next step? You sound like a provocateur.

I believe the corporatist endgame here is [...] to suck out all the capital before they relocate to Asia [...]

No. Shortsighted again. The elites’ endgame is population reduction for resource preservation.

Are you sure you don’t have your ticket yet?

Well, it didn’t completely fail. They recalled 2 Repugs and reduced the Repug majority to one vote in the face of all the money the Kochs poured in and the dirty tricks they played.

Protection of capital is primary to protection of people. At this point in the game, these “kids” are externalities with blowback. Their incarceration and further neglect fits the unfolding plan.

When he/she is part of an organized movement with an agenda, usually thought up by bourgeois middle class thinkers. Though Marx thought the workers should take over the revolution, he himself was middle class. Lenin and Trotsky, too.

http://reluctantrebel.blogspot.com/2011/07/its-unamerican-for-poor-people-to-have.html

The rightwing think tank Heritage Foundation recently got in their whaaambulance crying about how the American poor weren’t really poor at all because – shock! gasp! horror! – they have refridgerators, microwaves & some even have – perish the thought! – cell phones!!! GASP! How DARE they say they’re poor!

Believe me, the Oligarchs want nothing more or less than third world conditions before they’ll *admit* that anyone is “worthy” of being considered poor. I’ve lived in a number of third world countries; it ain’t easy or pretty. But until we have folks in huts with dirt floors, nasty outdoor toilets (remember that scene in the film, Slum Dog Millionaire??), no power or running water, loads of illnesses and HIGH infant mortality, the upper 2% will continue to grind us under. Mark my words.

You are right. Property is more important than people to the PTB. But again, it’s not big corps or the rich who are being hurt yet but people in poor neighborhoods. Shopkeepers being wiped out. Real trouble may come with ethnic violence. Three Asian men were murdered yesterday by a car possibly driven by a looter. In one area Turkish shop owners have banded together for protection.

Exactly. And then they won’t be poor. Their condition will be their caste. For ever and ever, Amen.

Loose canon ? Comparisons with establishment free traders such as Krugman and Reich ? Dylan ,in contrast,is an economic nationalist who is trying to retain our sovereignty before corporate globalization transforms America into an interdependent market where the citizenry is relegated to debt peonage .When referring to the corporate collectivism pursuant to garnering the market power of monopolies that control government,a loose canon would not have the focus to shrewdly define this as corporate communism as opposed to fascism.The class war can be viewed as a struggle to retain entrepreneurialism that grows the economy and allows us to expand the safety net via competition and innovation,before monopolism replaces it with debt induced impoverishment.and attendant tyranny over every aspect of our lives.

Pop reduction? Get real. Corps are about money, and the economic future is in Asia, not here. We are fully exploited and used up as a market, and they know that. “Provocateur”? Try not to be so fatuous, OK, when you don’t know me. Of course the Establishment will react with force to any challenge, but where will they point their guns? No mass targets available against lone, roving arsonists. Did you read my prior comments? It would appear not.

http://www.chowk.com/pavocavalry/iLogs/views/Pakistan-where-the-poor-subsidise-the-rich

I haven’t been to Pakistan, but this is the type of stuff that goes on in most third world countries. The poor subsidize the mega-wealthy, who always are *oblivious* to the plight of the poor, could care less, and feel mega-entitled their million$$$$.

This is where we’re headed fast. Remember that NeoLiberal USA policies supported the 13 (I think) mega-wealthy families in El Salvador against the middle/working class, who mainly just wanted their fair share:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Civil_War

Team USA has been waging NeoLiberal Imperialism around the globe, and now they’re just bringing it “home.” USA citizens have been ignoring these imperialistic conflicts at their peril… for far too long.

Yes, it is contained, but even there the demands of capital have priority. And those demands will be the grist for rich.

There will be plenty of trouble, racial and otherwise. But that is the path of immiseration (and extermination), not liberation.

Yeah, population reduction. Corps will preserve us for further exploitation? No, that shtick has been abandoned. Consumers are a burden. Reduce their numbers and the “producers” will be more secure.

This is a different kind of warfare. The “Establishment” never has to point guns.

Stop with the nonsense tactics.

So Obama doesn’t want to cut Social Security and Medicare? His Dodd-Frank bill has stopped further looting by the banks? Drug and health-care cost haven’t skyrocketed? The 95 House Dims voted for the debt ceiling POS when they only needed 58? Where do you live? It’s either under a rock or on another very nice planet.

Time to fight. Not to be angry, but to fight.

I saw it yesterday live and it was the most amazing thing to experience. I’m so sick of Cable Shows having the back & Forth bantering. What Dylan expressed was that the problem we have is not a Democratic or Republican issue. It is an American Issue. At what point do we see that this is a Nationalistic issue that is destroying America. Why aren’t either side standing up and shouting just like we saw with Dylan. If you see someone being killed do you stand up get involved and try to save them? His passion shows how we all should be acting and not in a Partisan Way. The problems our country faces has been caused by both Parties. In the Progressive Democratic Party we see who our views need to be pushed further left and to get the Party to be more of a cohesive Party. The Republicans are going to have to move left as anymore right they become irrelevant and nothing more than an extremist party that will collapse unless they start violent suppression of people.

“So who is going to primary him and ask him to address the question, “why are we systemically bleeding our country to death?”

Having a Dem primary opponent is just what the Right Wing wants. Why encourage the true enemies? I hate to admit it , but Obama is probably the most “liberal” Prez many of us will see in our lifetime. The irony is that we elected the first black Prez to preside while the US circles the drain. Under a GOP Prez, the circling will only speed up. At least with Obama, the decline will be in slow motion.

Scarecrow, a recommendation. As painful as it would be, get the transcript and show how much really stupid shit was hidden behind the rant.

I Will give him his due. I caught him the other day and he actually doesn’t spin in bullshit beltway or politico speak. Or even the most important thing on earth-what does this do to Obama’s election chances? You know? Who gives a rat’s ass. What about my or your brother’s chances of getting a job and paying his bills? Obama is set for life.

Oh and yeah-raping and pillaging the poor and middle class. EVER notice how it’s a goddamn crisis when the precious stock market goes down? Do these talking head clowns realize that many many millions don’t give a shit because they don’t have any savings? They don’t have a job that let’s them have a 401K-they aren’t FULL TIME. Or you know you have to pay the car payment, the rent payment, the car insurance payment, the health care insurance payment or god forbid you don’t have insurance-not so much left to play with stocks, assholes. My kids bill for getting her teeth cleaned, x raye’d and floride was $285-and they wonder why people skip the dentist? WHERE IS THE TRUTH of people’s real life in this country? Oh the stock market is down-the world is over. Everyone else is already poor-so sad for the rich to suffer.

So is Hartmann advocating NOT voting for Obama? Is he saying he isn’t a Democrat but a fake Democrat? (someone said he was still on the Obama train) If not, all these great words and debates are worthless. Say the truth. Anyone that votes for Obama is a fool. I am done with the mincing of the four billion words. Where is the action? At least no more dime to these fake Dems and no more votes for them!

Dylan’s righteousness is indeed welcome, but don’t be surprised if Phil the Asshole of MSNBC fires him. Truth is just not welcome in the “polite” discourse of mainstream political talk, even when the ship is sinking.

I think you are off the mark to a ridiculous degree, Corporations are about profits and controllng profitable markets, not extermination. Where would be the profit in that? Who told you that was the plan? AND, if you truly believe that, what are you doing to protect yourself from extermination?

Actually, some historians think Socrates may have been put to death because he was planning coup against the democracy through the youth he influenced.

How do you get the money out of politics? Get rid of elections. Have the random selection of limited-term representatives. It’ll take a major revolution to get us there with a rewritten constitution.

Hartmann plays a fairly duplicitous game. You have to listen to his radio show regularly to catch it. He’s better behaved on RT. But in essence he has been doing his best to keep the 0bots as confused as they’ve been. If he’s actually showing some consistency and integrity these days, great!

What the hell. Obama is a con plain and simple. Every last policy he has managed to pass was first a republican idea and they loved it right up until Obama did.

You can’t expect a rational focus from street rioters. They are not intellectuals, and do not even share an ideology. Just their anger. But, to the extent that they destroy corporate property or property insured by the oligarchy, they are in fact damaging their actual oppressors. I heard they destroyed a Sony building.

Obama is just as pathetic as the tealibangelicals, and slightly less appauling than the republicans.

To Hartmann it’s all about SC appointments. As if that really matters. It’s like worrying about who’s going to be the maitre d’s on the Titanic.

Eat your catfood and STFU!

Yeah, hartmann loves to build the audience to a revolutionary fever -pitch and then give his pansy-ass panacea about taking over the party one step at a time,and ostensibly,using flower power to muscle out Rubin and the d.l.c. He seems to be the only shill who tries to hide his his stooge agenda.

Corporations are tools of capitalists. They ultimately serve capitalists. If “the market” fails, the corporation will be oriented towards what serves capitalists. If growth us untenable, corporations make good war.

Me? I cannot survive alone. I’m hoping you can see beyond the BS.

I.F. Stone believed that. Were there others?

Thank you for some sanity. This idea that the property damage just hurts “the man” is ridiculous. If Sony, for example, had to shut down its building due to the damage and all the employees lost their jobs, it isn’t the executives who would take the hit. Also, it’s all well and good to use the “it’s just property” argument (one to which I don’t subscribe) until of course it isn’t just property. Angry mobs left unchecked are seldom contained for long. Just ask Piggy in Lord of the Flies.

I’ll ask again: How does “extermination” serve capitalists? Please be specific.

Nobody said it “just” hurts the man. We’re talking not about what I would do, but about what I predict others much less civilized than me will do, and are in fact doing right now in Britain. I was just making the point, without embroidering it, that those actions will do more to damage and discourage the oligarchy than all our polite debate and carefully restrained anger has done or is likely to ever do in the context of our totally rigged and corrupt system. Again, for the inattentive, I wouldn’t do it, and I’m not advocating for anyone else to do it. I am just predicting that it will be done, and what effect the doing of it will likely have.

What I find appalling is Ratigan’s contention that Obama should come forward against the “bought Congress”, as if he is isn’t the King of Bought-And-Paid-For himself.

I wonder what happened to the ratings on MSNBC after KO left. If DR leaves, they may go down further. Since Comcast now owns MSNBC, Mr. Ratigan maybe toast. Then he can join us all on Oct. 6th in DC.

An example: Late Victorian Holocausts

I haven’t developed the general rule. In the case of resource exhaustion, the corporation shifts into predatory form, like the Wall Street banks have. They profit by pillage.

Kind of obvious by now, no? Have you been asleep.

I guess this is a not so veiled reference to MSNBC putting African Americans on air recently. I’d rather have Van Jones on air before Al Sharpton, because unlike Sharpton, Jones does criticize this president and does have the guts to actually call out Democrats and Republicans for failing this nation. As far as your ethnic reference, get over it, its about time blacks were given air time, it just needs to be a black person not serving as Obama’s junkyard dog!

With all due respect, life is too short for me to list all the ways that modern America presents a different situation than the colonial exploitation scenarios dealt with in the link you provided. Do you ever update your thinking to include modern history and practice? So sorry, but it appears you are the one who has been asleep. For at least 100 years.

Funny, I didn’t hear your excuses for the modern predators. Opportunism is contagious.

I agree?

Obama is going to raise a billion dollars this year?
Progressives and Liberals hate the guy!

So who is going to gove OBAMA a billion dollars, the people Ratigan want OBAMA to attack? this not going to happen

Cornel West says it best
Obama is Wall Street Mascot

There’s no fucking excuses. What the hell is wrong with you? Do you just need someone to fight with? The modern oligarchs are total soulless pirates, and I would rejoice to see them all dead and gone. I just think the big picture is that they will focus their future efforts on doing to Asia, Africa, and Latin America what they have done here. Their only continuing interest in this market is to get as much capital out as they can, and take it with them. They won’t exterminate us, but they will leave us in the backwater of history with no capital left to rebuild from within, unless something happens to scare them into an early departure. They need continuous fast growth, and that can best be achieved in a developing economy. This economy is not a developing one, but rather an over-mature one. Every attractive market niche has already been fully exploited here. There is nothing left to attract the big players. That’s all.

You just nailed it.

The problem with Drum’s article is that he thinks the “Obama era” lasted even two years. From what I’ve seen it didn’t last more than three months.

Back when I could still handle listening to the shows on my local progressive station (before I couldn’t take their shilling for Obama anymore) I’d be listening to it and then Crapper would come on with his ad and I’d have to turn the radio off. Time for a little jazz or classical music. Lately I just listen to the French CBC station.

“The modern oligarchs are total soulless pirates …”

They are also killing people. Somewhere in that corporate framework the soulless pirate is transformed into the rational actor?

Ho ho.

The elites’ endgame is population reduction for resource preservation.

The corporation is not going to protect you from the pirate. And neither is slavery in foreign lands. They’ve already tried that. Capital is power. If the elite want you off SS and medicare because you provide negative ROI, they’ll be glad to euthanize your burdens. And watch out if you start demanding some of that power. They’re the take no prisoners kind of pirates.

So, still waiting for your big picture excuse for Wall Street predation.

“And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU… WILL… ATONE!”

Except don’t forget the lesson of WWI. It only takes a few with high powered weapons to mow down thousands without them.

It’s a huge quantum leap from doing things that have the predictable and accepted by-product of people dying, as you refer to and I agree goes on all the time, and “extermination” which implies a deliberate plan with the primary goal of killing everybody that is not them. If you believe in the latter, you should be out killing them right now, as a simple matter of basic self-defense. Perhaps it’s just a semantical difference, but, if so, then why are you pressing it so hard? We are on the same side, and your repeated request to have me “excuse . . . Wall Street predation” makes it clear that we are just talking past each other. For which, I am convinced, the fault is yours. I would just add that our civilized passivity over the last 50 years has enabled all the things which we are both now complaining about. At a minimum, we should be in the streets making our rage known, not just preaching to the choir on a blog site. In that context, I am glad that at least the rioters are making life difficult for the overlords.

Of course, we all know that, it would be suicide to attack with a crowd. But what the Brits are doing is very different. It is classic asymmetrical guerrilla warfare, no concentrated target presented to the enforcers. And no central planning to be surveilled, apparently. That’s the hardest kind of attack for a centralized security regime to defend against. It is the kind of attack that is only possible when a large group has been thoroughly alienated, to the point where they are motivated by individual rage and not by a coordinated ideology. It is the logical endgame response to the kind of relentless squeeze that has been perpetrated against the underclass. They have no hope for the future, but they are more inclined to destroy something than to passively roll over and die. Apparently, only us more intellectually developed, more civilized folks are willing to passively roll over and die. Complaining all the way, of course.

you should be out killing them right now

Error!

No, no leap from accepting death as a by-product to arranging civil war as a by-product. They put the choice before us and we are the fools who buy. Same rationalization.

What “side” are we on? Am I on the same side as a tea-partier? All are infested with the deadly logic of capital which pits us against each other. That is why I press hard. People do not realize how deadly those most infected are.

The rioters making life difficult will be easily and ruthlessly exploited. Their fate is your fate especially if you think they’re making progress.

They evil being contemplated by overlords is not a cultural whim. It is the consequence of their means of power, their mode of politics, and material conditions. Eugenics is irresistible.

“Cultural passivity” doesn’t describe the lives Americans have lived. They have been criminally misinformed. They have been sold empire. Now they are used up and to be discarded and the profits of their labor expropriated for survivors. How can you imagine that Americans understood the deal all along?

No, the predators hid their intent well. Making rage known will not be sufficient.

As I’ve said repeatedly, the rioters will do what they will do. I am only observing and predicting, not encouraging or participating. I agree with most of what you say here, except for the eugenics part, because I see no benefit to be realized by deliberately pursuing that course. But, if you feel “making rage known will not be sufficient,” and you are convinced that your death is their goal, then I must ask you, in all seriousness, what do YOU believe WOULD be sufficient? Can you please give a straightforward answer to that, please, and I will give your recommendation some serious consideration. OK?

How many Iraqi civilians did these monsters kill? They found a benefit there. They will find the benefits I have repeatedly noted in our case.

What might be sufficient? A clear, widespread, understanding of the stakes and a refusal to cooperate. Determination to abort a predatory system. Etc…

My death and yours is only collateral damage to these monsters.

Mr. Ratigan really got to the core of the issue and when $15K a plate dinner is considered (thanks a bunch for tidbit, Sister Jane) as Grass Roots contribution you can expect 99% of the country and its issues are not really being heard or considered and this is what is leading to current wealth extraction.

Mr. Ratigan really pointed out another important thing. Our country needs another one like Pres. Theodore Roosevelt right now. Our country has all the tools and solutions which were scaled back or repealed recently to fix the free-market weakness and current on-going wealth extraction. All that which is required is some-one like Pres. Theodore Roosevelt to enforce those solutions to get the country back on track and making all 100% of the citizens happy and experience a fulfilling life.

Here we have police targeting drivers because their skin might be darker than snowball white. How fair is this? The people could never overtake DC, but eliminating the rich is doable.

This message is for discussion purposes only. Not advocating overthrow of any government or asshole in it.

Just now posting DR???? His rants are classic and RIGHT. He hears the sucking sound that I do, all the money going into off-shore accounts. Not one PENNY of it taxed and Conservative think tanks or should I say toilet bowls always say “Oh the right pay much of the tax and the poor pay nothing” that is the biggest lie of all time.

These morons are paying on income, NOT capital gains and not on wealth gained from family connections.

We are in a new Feudal Era and some of you don’t see it I don’t think. Police State + Feudal ideology = Riots

The Left won’t even primary Obama, CHICKEN SH*TS!

Overthrow? How so with the military we have? I guess if you want to be the Viet-Cong or something. That would mean the death of alot of people though.

I ain’t the one, I’ll opt for relocation before they won’t allow you to leave.

Infrastructure bank, yeah, that’s the ticket.
All hail the job creators!
An utterly conventional idea from a TV blowhard – I’m sold!

In other words, you have no plan. But you are a great bloviator. A world-class bloviator. When bloviating becomes a successful tactic for changing society, I’ll nominate you to be the Emperor.

Gee, to think I got up early this morning because I was so sure your received wisdom would set us all on an exciting and effective new course to enlightenment and liberation. But now I see the problem: You just don’t do details. Otherwise, you’d probably realize that the situation here is somewhat different than the situation in Iraq. And you would have a better grand plan than “non-cooperation” to stop the monsters from devouring you.

Trade, debt and campaign finance reform? Ross Perot says hi.

Ah, perhaps you are a provocateur.

Fucking pathetic. Lamest of the lame.

http://www.ianwelsh.net/innocents-were-already-being-hurt-in-britain/

realitychecker:

We will probably get saved by rioters, not by any of our fellow civilized debaters.

This commenter has your number:

Well, if Britain’s left is anything like America’s, they’ve probably done very little to properly direct such street anger. The American left is far more interested in holding forth in their virtual salons than organizing at the street level. No wonder the have nots are such easy marks for the right—there are no alternative narratives.

Except, you’re not really from the left, are you? Yet, here you are.

Well, I’ve never voted for a Rethug, only for Dems. And I won’t do that anymore, since both parties are corp tools at this point. I don’t call myself “Comrade,” but I think that makes me “left” enough that I probably do belong here. I’ve been here every day for almost 7 years now. I’m not a Communist, but I definitely support the underdogs of our society, except for the ones that have given themselves over totally to self-destructiveness. But you really do stretch the bounds of incoherence. It appears to me that the number the cited commenter actually has is YOURS. Your passivity seems more suited for livestock than for a free human being. No wonder the right holds the left in such disdain and contempt. They think we are all like you, willing to be ass-raped indefinitely and never show any resistance beyond “non-cooperation.” I’m very different than that. I would never choose to go down without a fight.

Why aren’t you down with the rioters? You’re aggressive enough for the job.

Seven years? And you are asking me for a plan?

Anyway, you’re very skilled at missing the point. I guess that comes with the training. I leave you with a little riddle, for your health. Here’s Mill:

“Society can and does execute its own mandates: and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with which it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself.”

Could it be that the liberty of the market was a delusion, a poor judgement, which resulted in the very tyranny Mill feared in the masses?

Uh huh.

This colloquoy just proves the old maxim that one ought never to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed.