On April 19, Geithner evidently thought he had a criminal shakedown operation well in hand. Oops.
Yves:
Just as the Y2K threat was overstated but nevertheless had unexpected, adverse intermediate term consequences, I doubt this chicanery will be cost free to the public at large. But the debt overhang that ideologues have used to whip the public into a funk is profoundly deflationary unless addressed head on, via writedowns and bankruptcies offset by fiscal stimulus. Deflation means that high quality bonds are the place to be, as the market action of last week confirmed, so Treasuries benefit from the very condition that S&P depicts as a disaster.
Thus the best outcome would be if the bond and currency markets shrug off the S&P action, which would reveal that the much feared downgrade was a paper tiger. But even if the marker response is underwhelming, it is hard to imagine that Obama will not take a political toll for his colossal miscalculation. It was he who stoked the debt ceiling phony crisis to implement a neoliberal agenda, who refused to reverse course and threaten to circumvent the debt limits when the process had clearly spun out of his control.
So even if S&P fails to land a body blow in the markets, its ploy has garnered press that seems certain to taint the Administration, and thus confirms the power of its reckless conduct. Thus the cost is not likely to show up in bond yields, but in something far more fundamental: in yet more destruction of the foundations of our society for short-term, selfish ends.
And now for the completely predictable:
TRENDING: GOP Candidates slam Obama after downgrade
One would think the Democrats would be out there saying that S&P’s timing is highly questionable, coming as it does right when the SEC is investigating them for their role in the mortgage meltdown. Especially since the Republicans on the House Financial Services Committee have been trying to free them from any liability.
Hello, McFly, can we have that photo again:

That’s S&P’s David Beers, the guy responsible for the US downgrade antics, meeting with House Republicans on July 21 in a closed door meeting. The same day that Republicans on the House Financial Services Committee pass a bill rolling back the part of Dodd-Frank that makes it easier for victims of the mortgage meltdown to sue the ratings agencies.
Instead, what does the Democratic party leadership do? Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are out there validating S&P’s role as arbiter of the situation, by saying the downgrade proves the Democrats were right in the debt ceiling fight.
You’ve got to give S&P credit. They rightly realized that if they threw something in there about the Republicans’ refusal to raise taxes (note: they don’t make any explicit value judgment as to whether this is good or bad), the Democrats would instantly be pumping their echo chamber full of partisan tripe which gave S&P instant validation on both sides of the aisle. Like sharks to chum, they just wouldn’t be able to resist.
But, the fish stinks from the head. And it was Geithner’s hubris in believing he was a player in the Masters of the Universe game back in April that lined everyone up for this. I can’t tell you whether he read the signals wrong, or thought he could play both sides, or simply placed a bad bet. But this morning here is PIMCO’s Mohammed El-Erian sending the message to the political class that the MOTU’s are tightening their grip, and will demand more extreme austerity measures in the future:
[T]here a sliver of a silver lining — and an important one. America’s downgrade may serve as a wakeup call for its policymakers. It is an unambiguous and loud signal of the country’s eroding economic strength and global standing. It renders urgent the need to regain the initiative through better economic policymaking and more coherent governance.
There is a risk, of course, that different political factions will use S&P’s action as a vindication of their prior beliefs. Democrats would argue that it is recent Republican political sabotage that pushed S&P over the edge while Republicans would argue that we are here due to irresponsible government spending by the Democrats.
For the sake of their country and the wider global economy, both parties should resist the urge to begin bickering. Instead they should seize this potential “Sputnik Moment” — a visible shock to the national psyche that can unify Americans around a common vision and a renewed sense of purpose — that of halting gradual secular decline by putting the country back on the path of high growth, job creation and financial soundness.
Well who could argue with that, right? Oh those bickering kids. And what is it that Pimco thinks they should be doing instead of bickering?
In his April commentary, [PIMCO founder and Managing Director Bill] Gross painted a grim picture of the federal budget outlook. He railed against “Washington’s inability to recognize the intractable: 75% of the budget is non-discretionary and entitlement based. Without attacking entitlements — Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security — we are smelling $1 trillion deficits as far as the nose can sniff.”
Unless entitlements are slashed, Gross said, the government will end up defaulting on its debts, though not in the standard way of halting interest or principal payments. Rather, he wrote, default would occur “surreptitiously via accelerating and unexpectedly higher inflation . . . deceptively via a declining dollar — currently taking place right in front of our noses . . . and stealthily via policy rates and Treasury yields far below historical levels — paying savers less on their money and hoping they won’t complain.”
That’s right, slash entitlements. With the plebes getting restless, El-Erian applauds the ability of the Super Congress to stand above the normal legislative process and do that.
Bill Gross was doing the interview circuit five days ago, saying that a downgrade of US credit was coming. Well I guess he would know — S&P has been giving private briefings to PIMCO that they did not disclose to the public. Good thing PIMCO has been shorting US Treasuries since early this year.
Anybody who is using these events to take partisan pot shots at Democrats or Republicans or liberals or the Tea Party is missing the forrest here. The Masters of the Universe are calling the shots. They stand above the law, and have no fear of it. They are politically and morally inert, and will happily work through any party and manipulate the sacred cows of any ideology in order to achieve their objectives. They are hoping that you get so wound up in tribal identification and waste your energies in an unrelenting fight against the “other” that you won’t notice the role they are playing, that of deus behind the machina.
In truth neither side has any “power” but what they are temporarily granted by the Masters of the Universe in order to achieve the objective of the moment. Geithner thought it was his turn to be “it.” Too bad for Tim, it wasn’t.
Update: And the White House validates S&P’s downgrade. I guess they think they can be the spinner rather than the spun. Nobody calls into question the ability of these crooks to be making this call? No one?
Other posts in this series:
- Aug 5 - The PMS of S&P
- July 29 - Is Standard and Poor’s Manipulating US Debt Rating to Escape Liability for the Mortgage Crisis?
- July 29 - What Is Standard and Poor’s Agenda? Because It Ain’t About Default Risk or Economics
- June 27 - Meet the Man Who Could Decide the 2012 Presidential Election: Standard and Poor’s David Beers
- July 27 - Standard and Poor’s Should Not Be Able to Play Kingmaker in the 2012 Election
- July 26 - Wall Street’s Enforcers: Standard and Poor’s Imposes Shock Doctrine 2.0




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About FDL Action
S&P = Sucker Punch.
Restore America’s revenue. Tax the rich.
Endgame
AARRRGGGH!
And the MOTU have the perfect vehicle in S.361 to enact their desired austerity for us. I want to know which exact persons actually wrote S.361.
(And we should start calling it Boehner/Leahy, because those are the originating offices in either house.) I’ve written to both, asking exactly who wrote the bill and have received no response as yet.
I think the public is waking up to the facts that Little Timmy is incompetent and that Obama’s playing nice just is NOT working.
One other thought beyond the downgrade is its effect on other countries’ debt ratings. What will the MOTU do to other countries if the US roles over so easily.
The other credit agencies have the outlook of the US at negative.
The US political system is a mess (putting the country, other governments, and the internationally powerful, through a roller coaster over a formerly routine debt ceiling increase), it’s heavily corrupted, it’s over spending on war and not getting in enough revenue through taxes. It looks like neither party will touch anything but social welfare, but even that is questionable.
If this were not the case, everyone would be laughing at S&P and they’d lose major credibility. Perhaps this is motivated by politics, but due to the state of the US economy and political system, it’s going to be hard to make that argument.
I think it’s sad party loyalists are using this as an opportunity to attack the other team when they should be revolting against their government and the S&P. Like Jane says, they may be playing into S&P’s hand by validating their downgrade in order to score points for their team.
well said jane. This is all about TPTB and the puppets in DC are simply actors. Will TPTB win and get people fighting each other,, or will the people wake up and see the true enemy? Not sure and MSM will do its best to keep us fighting. Also declaring WW111 is always possible. Works every time and will work now. Too many people easily buy into ‘we must save blah, blah. We are a force for good, blah, blah.” We will see, but either way it is all coming down fast now. And you can bet those running the show have been planning for this while the rest will be caught just reacting. That is how they have and will always control the agenda and the message. maybe this time people will finally get it. But thousands of years of history are against us
That is not waking up that is just being stuck in the left vs right paradigm. Or blame the politicians. TPTB are running the show, the politicians just actors. Changing them changes nothing.
Not sure WWIII will help unless they blow up the US. The way the US military operates now, it won’t help solve employment problems unless they send out millions of people to be slaughtered. If the US gets hit, they’ll reduce the population and jobs will come from rebuilding.
Not unless you take into account just about everyone commenting in this morning’s front page article in the NY Times on the downgrade. Almost all commenters referred to how this was the same company that gave AAA ratings to junk CDOs. But hey, we’re just the voters, the normal citizenry. I guess that makes us “nobodies”.
Thanks, Jane. Yeah I read the S&P rating this morning. OTOH, I was majorly pissed off at S&P bc they’re just another part of the problem, frankly. Weren’t they rating all those stocks & bonds super-duper high just before the crash of 2008??? And saying: all is well, while even Blind Bob could see that the housing market was insane and chicanery was afoot.
So out struts S&P after Toad’s Wild Ride on the Dow the past coupla days, and S&P burps out a downgraded rating. Niiiiicceee, and WHO’s gonna make some big buck$$$ out of that?? Cuz ya know that these shysters’ll have some side-bet happening, whereby they win somehow.
Nonetheless, in all reality, the rating *should* be lowered. Dee Cee looks more & more like the funny farm (although I’m not laughing). Agreed that *all* the fed pols in Dee Cee are just poodles barking to their Masters’ tunes, but this has really gone beyond belief.
The fact that Timmeh said something some time ago??? Good to remind us, I suppose, but I do my best to pay as little attention to that lying spoogebucket as possible. A real waste of the space-time continuum is Timmeh Geithner.
Yep, we count for shit and our votes don’t count, but we’re the ones on the hook to pay for all this shit, and don’t you forget it, either.
news from downstairs
The Morgan Stanley Real Estate Fund VII Global, the latest in the Wall Street bank’s series of international property investment funds, began raising money from institutional investors in early 2008.”
read more: Reuters”
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/erskine-bowles-get-350000-a-year-from-morgan-stanley
“Erskine Bowles Gets $350,000 a Year from Morgan Stanley
Print
Thursday, 04 August 2011 05:26
guess that makes us Rubes
These diabolical puppet masters need to be exposed for what they are. This story and the related pieces need to be spread far and wide. Exposing these schemers is the most important thing the world needs right now. The global austerity measures is a coordinated effort by these lizard brain individuals.
wether we like it or not – whether we’re *aware* of it or not – yep, we’re all rubes and played like fiddles by the PTB.
Jane, outstanding work!
If this is a repeat I’m sorry – have you seen the press release from the Third Way?
Bill Daley must have drafted it – it’s sickening
But the Obamabots are out in force saying that if ONLY we had pushed through ‘the Grand Bargain’ this would not have happened.
I can’t wait to vote against him
I’d be quite happy to see this info spread far and wide, but I doubt that it’ll change one thing. Frankly my friends and neighbors appear to be completely unaware of any of this, and it *has* been in our local “nooz” paper lately.
Most citizens in Team USA are overfed on sugars & fat and easily misled and distracted by dumb stuff on tv. Who’s around that’s gonna do one damn thing about this??
The sad thing is that the first person to call for Geithner’s resignation after the downgrade was Michelle Bachmann.
The more I learn about this the more I am trying to prepare myself for catastrophe. All of the ins and outs taken separately sound reasonably harmless in the long run. But stepping back one has to realize we have for generations been the reliable that reassures. Like FS Key saw Old Glory still flying that morning The stability and reliability of the US is the axis around which the world nations hare rotated. Now that has shifted. And to what? nor plague or hostile invasion but to ignorant vermin, termites eating away at the structure. I am so angry at these men and women who should have known better as they followed and demanded we all follow the Herbert Hoover path. Anybody with a modicum of historical knowledge could see where it was leading……
The solution is simple, the government stands in the way.
1. Reduce military spending drastically.
2. Increase taxes on the most wealthy.
3. Have a stable government that doesn’t grid-lock every 6 months.
We need a new government model designed after one that’s proven successful, and even more democratic (Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
The government we have now is a failure in structure, operation, and the election process.
Frankly, I’m wondering if this move will just end up making S&P look stupid, seeing how there may not be much of an impact as a result of their spouting their stupid opinion, which could even be reversed before Nov 2012.
Meanwhile, if Obama were even the smallest fraction of the president he promised to be, he’d be using this stupid move against those who would commit acts of economic terrorism against the American people.
Fight, Obama, or get the fuck out of the way for the American people to fight the fight that needs fighting.
Mr. Secretary, you were a Bush appointee who President Obama got a lot of criticism over when he decided to keep you in his administration.
With that as background….is there any risk that you lose all credibility over this downgrade by S&P?
No risk of that.
I don’t think they have a problem wiping out a few billion people IMO
Geithner’s proclamations are incorrect so often that he has the credibility of a local TV weatherperson. Kissinger must be proud of his disciple.
good one………..oy
S&P> McGraw-Hill> Booz Allen Hamilton> Government> Obama
Google Booz Allen Hamilton for interesting reading. Especially where they were hacked in July and the info that has released. This concerns wiretaps,payoffs in government and big brother watching all of us.
Well it looks like Jim Hightower can add some things to his of what lies in the middle of the road, he can add Obama and America to yellow stripes and armadillos. Watching the spectacular failure of his “centrist, bipartisan” measures thus far, why this president continues to run to the middle on every issue is astounding to me. Isn’t this supposed to be one of the smartest, most intelligent men we’ve ever had as president. Well he may as smart as everyone says he is, but he is certainly something else as well, he is either cowardly or he’s as conservative and bought and paid for as some of us think he is.
In a nutshell, its the “Golden Rule” Jane. He who has the gold, makes the rules. Unfortunately in a two party (really one) system, there is no place for the disenfranchized to go. All we can do is what MLK did. Non-violent protest. Afterall, there are only so many votes at S&P.
Pardon my insistence but I think this matters: downgrading US T-bills w/o also downgrading the major banks that hold many of those very same T-bills as reserves & w/o also downgrading any brokerage using overnight repo financing (also done w/T-bills) is utter & complete bullshit. As Moyers said back in 2005, “A democracy can die of too many lies” and IMHO this looks like one of those moments…
when will that cretan zombie ever die?????????????????
benjamins???????//
These MOTU assholes already tried declaring that their war on terror is WWIV (the Cold War being recast as WWIII).
It didn’t work.
Now they are going for the Great Depression II.
Shock. Shock. Grab. Grab.
It’s time to put a stop to this stupidity.
good point…..faux downgrade
#fuckUs&p
You actually believed the campaign promises of a politician? A politician from Chicago, no less, even after he voted for the retroactive immunity for the telecoms following a flowery speech against the same bill. The only significant promise Obama kept was to escalate the non-war in Afghanistan.
but,how can we do it
take our $$ out of banks?
I agree with all you say, except that it is simple. I think there has been a shift beyond our own local politics. And we have yet to see the results of its reverberation. It’s kind of like infidelity. Once it happens, it is a bell that cannot be unrung. But I do have some faith and hope that our voting public sees the picture more clearly and the old sound bites won’t manipulate any longer. We shall see. .
No, I didn’t. I didn’t say that I did. I’m pointing out that he lied. I’m pointing out that he did it for stupid reasons. I’m pointing out to him that it’s time to start acting like the president he promised to be or get out of our way.
count me in,i have 2 never worn BHO t-shirts ,i can let you have real cheap,was on my way to the inaugural,when we got snowed in
If it were up to me, I’d lock him in a room with the descendants of Allende and let the retribution begin.
Buck still stops at Obama’s desk and if he can’t handle the job he should resign. Just maybe Joe can stop the bleeding for the remaining 17 months.
We need an American Spring, to be followed by trials of the pass two administrations.
well if you are waiting for that i have a bridge to sell you. he is doing what he was put there to do, what he told us was just a show for the dumb masses
Yes. For many reasons it is I think important, most prominently that we are no longer an operating democracy. We are vulnerable to the whims of the money people. I don’t think S&P misjudged our incapacity to defend the democracy from what and who they represent.
Funny you should mention fighting back financially:
I had already moved my Roth IRA and 401k money from high-risk funds to money market funds. In the next month, when stocks are way down, I’ll shift it all back, just like I did in 2008.
I also have cash sitting at Scottrade for the same purpose. This is how I get money to give to good candidates and FDL (also for a community center in my hometown and a hermitage).
Unfortunately, until the American people wake up and smell the two-party monster for the shit that it is, there’s not a lot more I can do as an individual citizen who’s not able to lead a revolution.
O/T but still appropriate:
My reading of this post was interrupted by the arrival of the mail, which included a fund-raising solicitation from…
Dick Durbin.
The envelope says it’s about “Our Future” and that a “Response Is Requested”.
Oh, they’re gonna get a response all right. Probably not what they hoped for. I’m gonna take some time drafting this one. Gotta go out and see if I can find a store that sells asbestos paper to print it on.
nope. not waiting for either. my statements, however, are valid. not sure what point you’re trying to make by arguing with me. i flipping agree with you people.
“Nobody” refers to “the White House” in the sentence:
Calling into question S&P’s credibility is not part of the administration’s response to the downgrade.
Pardon me but when did we have this so called democracy, because I don’t think it ever existed. I posted a cartoon yesterday from 1912 showing repubs and dems holding sacks of banker cash and arguing who was best equipped to push the creation of the Federal Reserve through without the majority catching on.
I have also posted how during the train baron era, politicians did all kinds of things to funnel money etc to railway barons, and when 4000 people went on strike, the US AG deemed it unlawful and the POTUS sent in the army to shut the strike down. The US AG was also known to be on the payroll of the railway baron who wanted to end teh strike.
So again not sure when this democracy you speak of happened.
I fear that with Congress on vacation they’ll only use the S&P downgrade as another piece of ammunition in their calls for austerity when they return and continue the clusterfuck they call debt negotiations. I think it’s about time for we the people to get the shit flowing back uphill! Isn’t it time for us to rebuild America on the backs of billionaires?
Because of S&P action, Money Markets may break the buck on Monday without Fed backstop. Basic savings account better choice for safety.
They said it couldn’t happen here, but the “Chicago Boys” have managed to implement disaster economics right here in the USA, as you’ve obviously noted. What do all of these things have in common: Obama, Austan Goolsbee, Arne Duncan, University of Chicago, Daley, Milton Friedman, the “Shock Doctrine”?
They’re all products of Chicago and are anathema to the success of a democratic republic.
Expand that to trials and prosecutions for the last 5 administrations and I’m with you.
Obama (F for fascist) and the Republicans (F for fascist) are in a race to see who can destroy America first. Both want to destroy Social Security, but somehow keep our wars of aggression going (6 under 0; 3 under B)and keep our endless imperial occupations of A + I (which provide perfect cover for funneling millions of tax payer dollars into the pockets of American offense corporations, under the cover of “contracting”).Would a real Democrat refuse to investigate the many crimes of Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush? No, but O did. Would a real Democrat have single-payer doctor advocates arrested at a public hearing? O did. Would a real Democrat turn his back on labor unions? O did. O is a Republican and a fascist to boot…
I believe the transnational corporations and the big money people understand very well that the United States has been fully developed and every possible market niche fully exploited. It’s completrely logical for them to plan a future based on the developing markets in Asia, and later in Africa and Latin America. But not here. Fast growth can only be achieved on a grand scale in relatively undeveloped markets, and continual fast growth is what corporations need to show their shareholders. So, if one assumes, for purposes of discussion, that the long range plan of the MOTU is to leave the U.S. behind, then one should readily infer that their only remaining interest in this place is to suck out all the “juice,” i.e., the capital, before they leave. They have no long range positive intent toward our future anymore. Keeping interest rates so low that even scared “conservative” money is forced into the various markets has been a primary tactic since 1990. Every bubble gets popped when the big boys decide to take away the money of the suckers. It’s worked repeatedly, and it is working again now. I follow the financial markets very closely, and it was a very strange week as far as trading action was concerned. I have no doubt many traded this S&P news based on advance knowledge. The declines were due, but too extravagant, without meaningful counter-rallies, to be explainable without reference to the coming downgrade, IMO. How fucked we are that members of the club can pull the trigger on our trapped retirement money at will, and tip their buddies off to share on the orgy. Why not? Nobody ever gets caught, unless they are small players that are not true club members. Eventually, U.S. capital available for market investment will get scared away, but that’s OK because this is the endgame. I do not believe we can change these oppressors, but the best we can do is to scare them into leaving ahead of schedule, while we still have some capital and spirit left to rebuild from within. We need to make them feel some fear, enough to make them uncomfortable enough to complete their relocation plans sooner rather than later. It will take overwhelming and persistent street action, sufficient to make them recount their bodyguards, at a minimum. We are running out of time to do this and still have it matter.
Third Way is Tom Daschle’s little shop o’ con artists who have been raking in the cash when the Democrats controlled the White House and Congress.
Their greed destroyed the Democratic Party:
They’re not crazy, of course they’re going to line up with the MOTUs. They see their role as pushing the Democrats to be their errand boys.
If the stock market collapses, no money is safe anywhere.
If the stock market dips big time because of others’ panic, the best thing to do is not sell anything you already own, buy up as much as you possibly can at prices as low as possible, have patience, and don’t sell too soon. You’ll double your money or more than double it.
I’m jealous.
I live in Illinois and I never got one of these solicitations. Damn, I am right with you on this so give him a good one from both of us.
I did write a nasty letter to AARP and told them i never wanted any more mailers, but it really wasn’t that nice.
kissinger
Thanks for the informative analysis. As an expert you fill in some of the spaces in my construction which is based on the model of a nation’s wealth, capital or natural resources, being simply something to suck dry than move on. I have for years realized the pension funds are a real honey pot to the predators. That is why they have so hated SS and worked so hard to privatize it. I am now at the point of having seen my long term private pension funds really having not much more if not less buying power than the original amounts while my SS has done its thing. These people are not in it to as you say do good works like making old age endurable but simply to take the money and run.
Sorry, I am not offering investment advice. Just stating that the S&P downgrade has the effect of reducing the value of all the securities in a money market mutual funds portfolio — potentially by an amount larger than the pathetic yield on the paper at the same time it may trigger redemptions forcing them to sell securities at a loss and thereby reducing the net asset value of the portfolio below a dollar for dollar level. Remember what almost happened when L. Bros. went under? Several MMF threatened to break the buck. Treasuries and all debts tied to treasuries much bigger deal. Fed backstop will potentially be required to prevent this.
I agree!
There is nothing under the Sun
this is just the nature of man!
Get Rich at all cost, Humanity be Damn
thus if aliens or intelligent life visits this planet, we are DOOMED, because the earth has no intelligent life.
what species eats it’s on kind
kills it home
and laughs while doing it? Human
Directing the bulk of anger at politicians is useless. We need to attack the disease instead of the symptom, and the disease is the MOTU.
IMHO the closest the US has been to a functioning ‘constitutional democratic republic’ in modern times was from around 1932 until 11/22/1963. But that’s not my point. What bothers me so much about this economic ‘crisis’ is that so much of it is based on bald-faced lies and utter bullshit, I linked the Moyers article as IMHO it’s a good one. How can anyone take seriously S&P downgrading US T-bills when they haven’t downgraded, say, Goldman-Sachs who uses hundreds of billions of those very same T-Bills in their nightly repo transactions? Yet everything I read in the MSM says this is a Very Serious Thing w/o going into any serious details.
Wall street had a bad week. Really? Wall street itself is nothing more than a hugh con game. The numbers were shown as going down. Did they really? Believing wall street is like believing the government actually spends its money the way it says it does. I would like to see one of those $750.00 toilet seats. Prices are up on wall street, let’s take a dip and put that retirement money in our pocket. Then inch it up again and do the same. King Chaos claims to try and regulate wall street but manages to always fall a little short. It’s about time for another faux collapse so King Chaos can give them billions again.
Let’s start naming names. A website with their mailing addresses and fax numbers would probably be helpful, too, so that we can start flooding them with mail and tying up their fax machines!
I suggest that everyone with a credit card start calling their creditors with all manner of random questions. Flood the representatives’ phone lines with reasonable – but lengthy – questions. Be perfectly polite. Just make it as hard as possible for the banksters to do business.
A day once a month when no one buys gas would also send a message that the people can organize and that they need our dollars.
I think you answered your own question. the bankers and co own the govt, the rating agencies and the media. So that is why they can do it
Thanks Jane.
I don’t take Geithner’s statements at face value, he has the track record of a gangsters puppet. I just assume he’s executing his assigned roll in the con.
Look at who’s he’s worked for outside of government and his track record in government since the 1990′s. Names like Kissinger and Peterson pop up on his resume. And if I remember correctly he was the treasury departments point person for the FSA portion of the 1990′s WTO agreements.
Honestly, my advice comes from a calmer belief that it won’t go that far. I think you’re giving way too much weight to S&P’s ability to take down the market by lowering the rating from AAA to AA. There will be a short-term impact. Not much more.
Besides, if it does go as far as you’re saying, there will be far bigger things to worry about than whether my US dollars are in a savings account or a money market fund.
Meanwhile, volatility in the stock market can be my friend so long as I’m not giving in to panic.
mswinkle,
Sorry, again you miss my point, maybe that’s why I don’t write blogposts… ;-) Yes I know who owns the country & who runs it for their benefit (Hint – it ain’t we the people), my point is that the S&P downgrade of the US without the accompanying downgrade of every major institution that holds US debt is blatant hypocrisy on its very face. The point is obvious, the point is self-evident, the point is easily defended based on easy to obtain facts from the rating agencies themselves and yet outside of a few financial blogs no one else is saying it. I’m an avid reader of the Firedoglake blog family & have been so since Jane originally started this thing yet in all the posts about the debt ‘crisis’ & S&P downgrade I’ve not seen anyone else make this point. And IMHO it needs to be spread far & wide. It might even wake up a few or *gasp*, even change some minds.
Obama had a real choice in 2008/2009 to protect abd support the American people or to bail out the failed banks and companies that caused this crisis.
He choose the bailout, and transferred tens of trillions of fraudulent and toxic debt to the American people.
Now, surprise, surprise, the Federal debt is huge, and DC wants to cut the last of the New Deal safety nets to “pay back” it’s debt.
What a cruel joke on the American people. We’re now saddled with the exact same people running the exact same companies that trashed America’s and the world’s economy, and we get the cuts.
Social Security did not cause this crisis.
Medicare did not cause this crisis.
Allowing billionaires and corporations to quit paying taxes did.
Starting two (or three) unfunded and stupid wars that have not made us safer did.
Shredding Depression era financial regulations did.
Outsourcing America’s jobs for a quick buck did.
What have we done about any of the real problems? NOTHING.
Absolutely right, and a vitally-important point.
For a reason that Standard & Poor’s itself articulates – however insincerely – as part of its justification for Friday’s downgrade (though while carefully avoiding the word “democratic”):
I wouldn’t call the despotic nature of the process designed, by Party leadership, to enact, unchanged, the proposals of their Joint Select [Catfood II Super] Committee on Deficit Reduction an “extra-constitutional change of government” per se, but, by its own terms, I think it clearly qualifies as an “extra-constitutional change in government,” however temporary. A change that, crucially – aided by the deliberate bypassing of Congressional process – was able to be successfully executed because of the “high concentration of power” that has been allowed, increasingly over the years, to undemocratically accumulate in the hands of Party leadership in Congress and, through theirs – plowing right over the separation of powers – in the hands of the presidency.
In my opinion, the seemingly-unprecedented concentration and consolidation of Congressional power in the hands of a few Party leaders and/or the President, that we’re witnessing today, unquestionably constitutes a serious “challenge” to the Constitutional design of our federal “political institutions,” and represents the “forest” that too many partisans are overlooking as they battle from tree to tree against counterparts on “the other side of the aisle” for temporary advantage, even as the ground beneath their feet begins to give way.
While we’ve been voluntarily distracting ourselves, or being involuntarily distracted, by the demonization of various ill-defined loud, public “Tea Party” or “Tea-GOP” factions (or the various mocked groups that predated the “Tea Party”), in and out of Congress, the real threat to good government, the “common wealth,” and a fair, just society has been quietly growing – through the backroom, power-consolidating moves of those (Obama, Reid, McConnell, Boehner, Pelosi, and their predecessors) who consider public, democratic lawmaking – self-government, itself – to be a threat to their own power.
The next power-consolidating move of those Party leaders will be through their puppets on the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction, and it seems clear from the immediate reactions by Party leadership to the S&P downgrade – John Boehner for the Republican House, Barack Obama & Harry Reid for the Democratic Senate – that the Parties, at least, view Friday’s downgrade as an opportunity, if not a deliberate S&P attempt, to influence the conclusions of their still-forming Catfood II Super Joint Select Committee.
Thus, those – Paul Krugman very much included – who continue to pretend that the beliefs of a “crazy” faction of one of the two political Parties are the real cause of our problems at the federal level, are letting partisanship, or a sense of intellectual superiority, distract them from the much more ominous development of an increasing concentration of power in too-few hands at the federal level. A major consequence of that unhealthy concentration of power is the thwarting of the democratic, egalitarian operations of the “political institutions” known as the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate, whose public, parliamentary machinery and legislative processes are perceived as a threat by those few men and women who now wield in private, from the top, the collective power that was vested by us on an equal basis – equally on one basis for Representatives, and equally on another basis for Senators – in every federal legislator.
At the same time, partisans – and “savvy” political commentators, bent on running with the presidency-exalting media in-crowd – seem to overlook the fact that obsessing at length over disliked presidential proposals that usurp the purview of Members of Congress (designing the details of national policy while lawmaking, for example), is the functional equivalent of obsessing over hoped-for presidential proposals that usurp the purview of Members of Congress, and that both obsessions implicitly contain the same dangerous premise: That Congressional power ought to flow unimpeded to the presidency from members of the President’s political Party in Congress.
In short, that everything at the federal level should hinge, as it apparently does at present, in practice, on the (good or bad) will of one man in the presidency.
Once we accept the proposition that Congressional power ought to unquestioningly flow to the presidency from members of the President’s political Party in Congress – in lieu of letting Members of Congress democratically work their will in public – does it really matter who the “hostage-takers” are, or aren’t, in the secret, backroom power struggles that such a perversion of power and Constitutional design promotes? Having implicitly or explicitly asked for a form of Constitutional dictatorship, what right have we to complain when we predictably reap what we sowed?
Thanks, Jane, I did get the import of your comment. I should have added a /s after my comment, because, to me, it’s so telling that only Joe/Josephine citizen is calling out S&P on this folly.
I commented the other day that I wasn’t sure whether the Repubs or Obama were the ones paying off S&P to downgrade the debt. Keep in mind that Timmy’s comments were made in April; by July, O’s team was looking for any help they could get to use the deficit as its excuse to gut social programs. I wouldn’t rule out Obama’s complicity in this.
Knowledgeable market players know how to make money when things are going down. It’s just the mirror image of buying, but most regular people don’t even know how it works. The profits are just as real when you sell high and buy back low. The smart guys on Wall street had a great week. In fact, a great two weeks.
Right on. And, unfortunately, just voting in November will not fix any of it.
jane, must read re: S&P’s David Beers
from warren mosler (my bold)
more here:
http://moslereconomics.com/2011/08/06/sp-downgrades-us-on-ability-to-pay/
Why can’t we get our own Grover Norquist who gets the Dems to sign a pledge never to vote to cut SS, Medicare or Medicaid? Where is the progressive “Kock” cash to seed our grass roots movement?
What you are referring to is capitalism’s insatiable appetite for cheaper and cheaper labor.
ah, okay. Didn’t want you think I called you a “nobody.”
I couldn’t stand to read all the “Failcess” links to Sirota at Salon & Matt Stoller at NC pulling the curtain back on the evil Obama. I have had some hours of cognitive dissonance between our attack on S&P’s criminal manipulations and our attack on Obama’s deliberate cruelty. If they are both evil and both fighting to defend their oligarch patrons, then how can we side with Obama against the S&P?
Then this resolved the dissonance:
Obviously, the WH and S&P are playing good cop/bad cop. We can expect more of this for the next 18 months, as Obama trades places each week with whoever wants to play bad cop. John Boehner? Miss McConnell? A rating agency? The IMF?
From the The Hill story (first link in the update):
Jane, this block is important:
Rather, he wrote, default would occur “surreptitiously via accelerating and unexpectedly higher inflation . . . deceptively via a declining dollar — currently taking place right in front of our noses . . . and stealthily via policy rates and Treasury yields far below historical levels — paying savers less on their money and hoping they won’t complain.”
My take: In a climate of higher inflation and a declining dollar, the Treasury would be forced to pay higher interest, yields would go up and savers would make more on their money. I know no theory that justifies this contradictory paragraph. They really are just making stuff up.
I am sorry I am so late to this thread. What you said is potentially astounding. If you get a chance some time this weekend could you stop by this thread again and leave a couple links about impact on money market funds?
I have been pushing friends to get the eff out of their money markets ever since May or June when the extent of their exposure to European bank bonds ($800 Billion) was widely reported.
My read is that S&P/PIMCO are playing everyone. S&P to cover their asses, PIMCO to push their MOTU license to loot. Geithner thought he could work with them, because the White House believes (rightly or wrongly, and at this point, perhaps rightly) that Obama can’t win reelection in 2012 without their backing. So even though S&P just gave the GOP the club with which they will relentlessly beat Obama (and the White House knows it — how many times have you seen “historic downgrade” today?), the White House will use the downgrade as an excuse to push for even more drastic austerity in order to try and please the MOTUs that much more.
If your opinion of the S&P shakedown scheme is that it is wrong for them to have this much power over a President, that is probably not an opinion shared by either party at the moment. They are locked a in a battle for who gets to be the chosen one.
You’re right. It makes no sense.
Could you get wider and wider spreads? Who pays the interest on US debt securities? The Fed or Treasury? I don’t know, but I’m wondering:
1) Can the MOTU make it so The Banksters still get their secret no-interest loans… and
2) While John Q Public has higher interest rates (both on deposits and loans)… can the MOTU still make his spread grow significantly larger?
I don’t put anything past The Crime Syndicate.
If people increase their interest on deposits from 0% to 10% in one year, maybe the theory is that people won’t complain that borrowing costs on small business loans / homes increases from 5% to 20% in one year?
The Banksters make another 5% spread and the MOTU win, win, win!!!
heh… I really have no idea. Just trying to reconcile your point that seems to follow CW.
Someone sent me this:
http://maxkeiser.com/2011/08/02/max-keiser-aaa-to-junk-just-what-wall-st-wants/
There is a limit to my understanding of these things, but the implication was that Wall Street would make more money on lower rated bonds because the spreads would be bigger.
Things seem too volatile for anyone to rationally think they can start to unravel things in that kind of orderly fashion, but they’ve entertained more insane thoughts I suppose.
This is criminal.
Yes. I think the SEC should crush them.
Yes, Jane. The big
casino housestrading banks have special units called “high yield,” “transitional,” and “distressed debt,” which trade bonds of, respectively, junk-bond rated issuers (companies), issuers rated high risk on the brink of bankruptcy, and issuers who lose their ratings when they file for bankruptcy. The trading desks make money all the way down; bigger and bigger returns on investment (ROIs) as the risk ratings escalate and the prices drop.Thanks for the link. I’ll look at it. But as for your comment:
I’m sure you’ve never worked on Wall Street.
A term commonly tossed around is “vols.” It’s short for volatility. Many a trader will tell you that they don’t care if the market goes up or down… because they’re always hedged. Naked trades… going long or short can make you LOTS of money. But being well-hedged can still make you quite a bit of money in “volatile” times.
The prop traders (proprietary traders who go long or short) may or may not do well with S&P’s news. But the vol traders are probably pleased as pie right now.
But I’m no expert, so I’m happy if someone more knowledgable corrects me.
i don’t think so. geither has been their guy for a long time — remember what he did to indonesia during 97/98 asian financial crisis. could be he’s a true believer or maybe he’s complicit (not mutually exclusive), but i don’t buy he thought he could “work with them.”
some background here:
from the naked capitalism link:
and a bit more geithner background link in my comments here.
i do think it’s wrong. i just don’t think that’s what happening (*).
for all i know, the president and beers are playing on the same team.
(*) note: could change my mind in the next 5 minutes. like everyone else, i’m just trying to think things through without anything like enough reliable info
In the big trading banks, the “Fixed Income” division trades bonds. They are monitored on a daily, probably hourly, basis by risk management & other internal surveillance systems. My understanding is the same trading desks trade for the bank itself (proprietary) and for clients of the bank (customers). All of the trading is supervised by the same risk management procedures & systems. They “manage” risk, as you say, by hedging. I think they almost certain hedge every proprietary trade; they would probably hedge every client trade unless the client begged them specifically not to, in which case the client would need to post much larger collateral (margin).
selise, you might not have liked Keating, he was a big anti-tariff guy, according to this long bio from Australia’s National Archives:
As for calling Geithner incompetent, that would’ve been mild compared to the vituperative insults he commonly used in Parliament.
I worked at one of them from 2000 to 2004. At that time, the prop desks were largely independent of the rest of the fixed income and equities groups. The prop desks were not necessarily hedged. It was where the most gambling took place. The rest of the traders were largely hedged as they’d sell a product to one client, then hedge that trade and buy a product from another client.
Fixed income, equities, cash management… they’re all basically the same thing, just relatively different products being traded… though hybrids cross all the lines as individual traders compete with each other on the casino floor.
I watched the clip. As I mentioned in my last post, I worked at one of the big trading banks in the early 00s for four years. Coupling that with my populist bent and I say the guy in the video (Keiser??) NAILED it. My main point of disagreement is that he seemed to say that Blankfein and Dimon want another 50 million Americans in poverty. I could have gotten that wrong, but my hunch is that Loyd and Jamie are indifferent… as long as they make money, they don’t give a hoot about anyone else.
Also, near the beginning he mentions my two previous comments:
spreads and volatility
Jane, make no mistake… The Crime Syndicate WILL make money.
Apparently Sen. Bernie Sanders has come close to calling S&P on this.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/wires/live_wire/live_wire.html#1456
But it’s not quite the same as having the WH do so and also siccing the DOJ dogs on their asses.
quoting yves smith quoting keating doesn’t mean i like keating (don’t know enough to have an opinion).
comment was solely meant to be about geithner.
jmo, but i think there is a lot to learn about how this game is played just by looking at how it’s been played (many times) and how it’s being played in other countries. this is not something new.
POTUS reports to the MOTU. Why would the MOTU allow the POTUS to investigate them? Jamie and Loyd would never allow such things.
And not one bankster has been indicted. ‘Nuf said.
jane hampsher writes:
“…Update: And the White House validates S&P’s downgrade. I guess they think they can be the spinner rather than the spun. Nobody calls into question the ability of these crooks to be making this call? No one…”
that comment triggered this thought:
when has the obama white house EVER called into question the ability of any party or person in power to do anything?
begin with the prof gates and (then) sgt. crowley drama:
gates was improperly accosted in his home by a police officer. he acted as an unfairly treated, irate american citizen should, and he was arrested for that “offense”.
the obama whitehouse’s “duck and dodge” response:
to shut down any suggestion of either racism or improperly rude treatment of a citizen by a police officer, both major problems in this country’s communities.
the prez’s inane and evasive response to gates/crowley (let’s drink a beer together), in hindsight, provided the pattern to be repeated over-and-over-again by the obama whitehouse.
police power, banking power, political power, financial power, bureaucratic power, military power, et al.,
the obama admin never challenges what “happened”, never makes a public retort, never states what it values, never states its regret for govt misconduct, never acknowledges its own errors.
the approach this admin has taken can best be described as an “uncle tom” daschle approach.
that’s what you risk when you vote a severely inexperienced presidential candidate into office – a severely inexperienced prez depending on others with agendas to tell him/her how to act.
Jane, obviously I’ve had some disagreements at different times but I must say you did a great job overall being so out and front on this whole S&P story. I see on July 27 you said, “It appears imminent that the credit ratings agencies will downgrade US debt. It’s completely irrational and unjustifiable, but it’s not a matter of “if” but “when.”
Completely nailed it! Do you think downgrades by the other 2 ratings agencies is coming-this week both demurred the opportunity to do the same.
S&P has set the table for themselves more by interviews they have done today, saying this downgrade is not about when the US might get it;s triple A rating back and saying there is no way of predicting if it will but that S&P will wait to see where policy goes in the future.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/06/eveningnews/main20089121.shtml
For S&P strutting
Mason: In terms of timing, if the U.S. succeeds in reducing its debt, how quickly could it get its triple a rating back?
Beers: That’s not what we’re looking at right now. We’re looking at the deal that was agreed this week and we’re (judging) by the test of ‘Does it turn the rising of the debt burden around?’ Our answer is, in our view, no, it does not.
Mason: What you’re saying is it could be years before we get our Triple-A rating restored?
Beers: It depends on the fiscal policy choices that the government makes.
Depends on entitlement cuts…
Something I have been wondering, in case anyone is still here. In the typical mondel, companies pay S & P to rate their stocks. It is an obvious conflict of interest. I am guessing that the US does not pay S & P for ratings. If that is true, then rating a country is very different from its usual model.
Still here… and an interesting point. I have no idea if the US pays dollars in exchange for a rating. Nonetheless, the CRAs do receive “value” from the US… even if it’s not the usual dollar payment.
The CRAs are codified in US law. How much better a deal can you get?
Was talking to a friend today who has an ice cream shop and explained it this way…
The CRAs may not get paid any money, but they certainly get a great deal of value through their dirty deals.
Maybe, like Fannie / Freddie, we should start calling them GSEs?
In other words it is social security gutting is what they want. Looting of public savings in a public treasury curiously called as entitlements by them as if it is some rating agencies hard-earned money public is taking after a certain age.
If social security is gutted it will enable them to create Depression at will as we see now that they have recession creating ability at will due to Glass-steagall act repeal.
If this is not politics by rating agencies than what is. It raises serious questions as to who is rating whom. Our elected representatives who are the up-holders of the supreme law of the land i.e. constitution are supposed to rate them or Standard and Poors is supposed to rate them. Looks like latter is the case now.
I am hoping Republicans stop rejoicing on this thinking it happened on Democrat Presidents watch. Tomorrow they might pass this rating if things do not go their way in a Republican administration. All of this is happening because accountability was not given due to sub-prime mortgage ratings by current administration.
What we saw saw recently in debt ceiling brouhaha was congress and senate asserting its role playing to their bases which is a positive thing for the country and if this happened a decade ago we would not have had un-necessary wars like in Iraq coupled with irresponsible tax cuts.
S&P should not even be in existence anymore and all those crooks would be in jail except because of pathetic performance of Obama and his unwillingness to prosecute even a single crook who brought devastation to the whole world.
To support Jane’s views, here is something similar from John Mauldin’s Frontline Thoughts:
http://www.johnmauldin.com/frontlinethoughts/the-case-for-going-global-is-stronger-than-ever/
”And now, a few questions and observations are in order…
So, if the Fed, which doesn’t issue credit and can print money, can be downgraded because it holds AA+ debt, then why and how in hell can the ECB, which holds hundreds of billions of euros of the junk debt of Greece and Ireland and insolvent banks not be downgraded on Monday? And the Bank of Japan? REALLY? What are these guys smoking? Do we now downgrade GNMA? Of course. And the FDIC? What the hell will repos do on market open? The NY Fed says it won’t affect anything. Don’t ask me, I just work here. And how can you rate France AAA? And still give AA or more to Italy when the market is saying they are getting close to junk?”