Quinnipiac released their Florida poll numbers on the President and the debt ceiling bill, and it does not bode well for his 2012 chances in the swing state. His approval among Independents went from 42% last Wednesday through Sunday to 33% from Monday through Tuesday, while disapproval shot up 52% to 61%. When asked to describe how they feel about the deal, more Independents said they were “angry” (23%) than either Republicans or Democrats.
In order to contextualize the bind that this puts Obama in, it’s worth recounting what I’ve been told about how the deal went down.
Senate sources confirm they were told that the President had agreed to a deal with John Boehner that included $800 billion in revenue. But then the Gang of Six released the details of their deal on July 19, which included $1 trillion in revenue and an end to the Bush tax cuts. Senate Democrats had pitch forks and torches ready for Jack Lew two days later when he went to the Hill to tell them that not only had they been excluded from the Boehner negotiations, but that they were now expected to pass a deal that was worse than the Gang of Six deal most of them had signed on to. So Obama went back to Boehner and asked for $400 billion more in revenues. Boehner got angry because he felt Obama was welching on the deal they already had, which Boehner knew he would have a tough time selling to his caucus anyway. And that’s when Boehner walked out of the negotiations, on Friday July 22.
By the time the President launched his Twitter war on the GOP the following Friday, July 29, I was under the impression that it was the Republicans who were obstructing a deal on the debt ceiling. But according to sources in both the Senate and the House who were engaged in conversations with the White House at the time, it was the administration that was holding out at that point. As late as July 24 Boehner said the deal was still on the table, but the White House thought they could box the Republicans into a better deal if Obama used the bully pulpit.
Whatever resolve the President had on Friday when he began his Twitter attack evidently collapsed on Saturday when his Gallup numbers went from bad to worse. On Friday his approval numbers hit a new low of 40% approve, 50% disapprove. But on Saturday they moved to 40% approve, 52% disapprove. At that point the White House panicked and tried to go back and salvage the Boehner deal (which was described by administration officials to Politico as the White House making “our last play” on Saturday morning). Sources say they decided to bite the bullet, accept a zero revenue deal and determined to spend the next year “making it up to liberals.”
I scratched my head and asked how a deal that the CBO concluded would increase unemployment and slow GDP growth over the course of the next year could possibly put the President in a better position for the next election. The response was that they were so worried about the direction of the poll numbers they believed they had to do this or none of that would matter, and would worry about that later.
That led to the weird back-and-forth between the Senate Democrats and Mitch McConnell on Saturday. Harry Reid called for a quorum call at 5:50 pm to speak to the entire Senate. At 6:05 he announced that McConnell had given a press conference to say that he was in talks with the White House and that was a lie. McConnell responded by saying that he had been on the phone with Joe Biden when he had to hang up to come to the floor in response to Reid’s quorum call. Most accounts of the Saturday negotiations confirm that Biden and McConnell were in talks all day, so McConnell was evidently telling the truth.
Reid was also telling the truth when he said McConnell would not deal with him. McConnell apparently did insist on negotiating directly with the White House. But according to both Mike Allen and Senate sources familiar with the negotiations, McConnell refused to negotiate with the President himself. Politico reports that McConnell insisted on dealing with Biden because he felt “other Democrats, especially Obama, would prove to be less trustworthy bargaining partners.” Sources say this was at Boehner’s insistence, because McConnell felt he was was “tied at the hip” to Boehner in the deal.
And indeed he was. Per Mike Allen:
Biden would make a proposal, and McConnell would pad the narrow, red-carpeted hallway behind the rotunda that links his office to Boehner’s, staffers said. The speaker made the return trip several times himself, standing in shirtsleeves and puffing smoke as McConnell, a non-smoker, listened intently in the impeccable suit some aides suspect he wears 24 hours a day.
Boehner was still angry because he felt Obama had not honored their earlier deal, which led to his tirade on the House floor: ”I stuck my neck out by a mile to get an agreement with the president of the United States,” said Boehner. ”Hey, I put revenues on the table in order to try to come to an agreement in order to avert us being where we are.”
But whereas the earlier deal with Boehner had $800 billion in revenue, by Saturday Boehner smelled the administration’s desperation for a deal and took all revenues off the table. That put the White House in the position where Obama had to go back on his threat to veto a bill that did not include revenues, and accept a deal that was $800 billion lower than the one Boehner had agreed to the previous week. But the White House was focused on the singular goal of stopping the hemorrhaging in Obama’s poll numbers, so they accepted it after McConnell agreed to a fig leaf about phantom defense cuts which Democratic leaders could use to sell the deal to their caucuses:
‘The defense cuts sold them. Basically $800 to $900 billion of the $2.1 trillion is in defense or security cuts,’ a senior Democratic aide told POLITICO. ‘Biden kept saying, that when all things were factored in, it was basically a 50-50 on defense and domestic spending cuts.’”
But as Dave Dayen notes, the agreement called for fewer cuts to the Pentagon than the President’s budget had, so the Pentagon actually made out better to the tune of $50 billion dollars. He also notes that “these kinds of cuts could be shifted to personnel in the form of health care and pensions for active duty military, not the weapons of war.” The notion that there was anything in the bill in the end that was more than a cosmetic victory for Democrats is largely illusory.
On the day of the vote, Democrats in the House were told by Joe Biden that if the bill did not pass, Obama would use the 14th Amendment. Despite protestations by Obama to the contrary, the White House apparently believed that the President did have the authority to invoke the 14th Amendment, they just thought it would be too politically toxic.
Today the horse race analysts take a look at Gallup’s latest poll numbers, which indicate that a slim majority of liberals (51%) approve of the deal, whereas Republicans and conservatives overwhelmingly oppose it. They conclude from this that ”more liberals sided with Obama than with the liberal opinion elite” like Paul Krugman, Bernie Sanders and Daily Kos. But I imagine this is more a reflection of the fact that liberals thought that the debt ceiling needed to be raised period, whereas conservatives did not. Roughly 1/5 of liberals consider the deal “a step forward,” and an equal number consider it “a step back,” with 52% choosing “neither.” That hardly represents a glowing endorsement of the deal.
Taken together, the Gallup numbers and the Quinnipiac numbers underscore the problem for the President right now. Independents are tracking with Republicans on the debt ceiling deal, and their intensity of feeling around it is not low. At the same time, they White House understands they need to win the approval of liberals, and they hope their new focus on jobs will ”get Paul Krugman off their backs.”
How do they do both? Well as Brad DeLong notes, pursuing economic policy to create jobs and make the economy better would be the obvious answer. ”The goal is not to appease Paul Krugman but to actually generate a strong recovery,” says DeLong. “To aim at the first rather than the second won’t do much good–and won’t even accomplish the first.” But the polls, rather than the economists, appear to be in the driver’s seat at the White House right now.





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Jane –
TYPO ALERT — Unnecessary “and” in this sentence:
Otherwise, typically penetrating story about the combined venality and incompetence of the Zeroa administration.
And did you notice HuffPo’s headline story about world financial markets falling over…you guessed it…fears of decreased demand?
Looks like Obama manufactured his beloved austerity just as the financial brains figured out that austerity is a dumb-ass idea in the middle of a mini-Depression.
If Obama is incompetent, we need better Democrats.
If Obama got what he wanted, we need another political party.
I ‘vote’ for the latter.
Amazing.
Simply. Amazing.
(And not in a good way…)
Maybe obama never wanted revenue in the deal and that’s why he kept asking for more.
Z
The awesomest Negotiator In Chief ever!
Jane, I think you’ve dropped a word here – “But I imagine this is more a reflection of the fact that liberals and thought that the debt ceiling needed to be raised period, whereas conservatives did not. “
I fully expect that my job is headed for the abattoir by year’s end.
Oh, poor baby.
In the same way that we have taken on a collective negative karma for what our country has done and is doing in the middle/near east, we have taken on the negative collateral affects that our president has allowed congress – both sides of the aisles – to do to the US Pubic.
For shame! Shame on all of them.
I don’t do it too often, But I’m bringing out my wagging finger. Hrmmmph.
what kind of abjectly hapless motherfucker must you be to make Boehner appear reasonable ?!?!
Get in line.
Make some good plans.
Start a garden.
Learn to live on less.
Between a rock and a hard place…I thought he might be on vacation at The Baths on Virgin Gorda or something. /s
Nobody is going to trust what Obama says. I sure don’t. And there’s not enough time to create a recovery before the election, even if the debt ceiling increase had some intelligent job growth in it. Which it doesn’t. So there’s no proof that Obama is “sincere” prior to the election.
Were I his political advisors, I’d be planning a scare campaign. Because the only thing that seems to be providing even the slightest motivation to the left is the fact that the GOPers are way worse.
Boxturtle (I hope he enjoys his rock, after all he quarried it)
That’s a rhertorical question, right? It’s downright ugly.
WTF? This is like some kind of parade of dark comedies.
Darling, would you kindly pourt some more water on those hot rocks, bring some fresh towels and, hey guys, what do you want to drink?
Obama is inept, I have come to that conclusion. There is no mystery about why he does what he does, he is just incompetent. He impresses me as somebody who walks onto a car lot and negotiates a “deal” that has him paying more the the car than the sticker price. Then he tries to make it up to his wife by taking her to dinner.
I would have sworn that only Bachmann and Paul could do that.
Boxturtle (Wrong again)
“My poll numbers dropped today – let’s enact the anti-stimulus STAT!” It’s bad if that story is be believed just as it’s bad if the story is false.
What Obama needs to say “I will not seek and will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your president” since at best he’s in way over his head and at worst he’s totally corrupt.
He has bad ideas.
first carter came out of nowhere to be elected in 76 after watergate. he moved to the right so hard kennedy primaried him. then we get 8 years of clinton shipping jobs overseas and de regulating everything in sight, especially during his second term when there should have been no ability to exert political pressure. Now we have the big 0 who wasted 2 years on his 1990′s republican medical plan when simply moving the elgibility age for medicare would have been so much better, easier,and faster. his stimulus bill was too small to be effective but large enough to demonize. now he wants to disguise his purposefull incompetance and cowardice with more propoganda. makes me want to send my poli sci degree back to the college where it was earned…
“Were I his political advisors, I’d be planning a scare campaign”
What a coincidence…I believe that is their plan
Only as long as Biden and Boner are out too. Make it a trifecta.
Anyone remember that old Obama quote where Obama was saying how he’s smarter than any of his advisors? I wish I could find it.
How exactly are they going to do that? What they need to do is create 10 million new, permanent, government jobs at the federal, state, and local levels. Start by doubling discretionary spending, halving the security budget, and tripling taxes.
But they won’t, and with this Congress can’t, do any of those things.
So they’ll try tax cuts and free trade agreements, both of which can pass this Congress, and both of which cost jobs.
Anything that works, they can’t or won’t do. Anything that they can or will do makes it worse.
Assumes material not in evidence.
Show me an idea that he had without input from Wall St or the intelligence community or the pentagon.
Boxturtle (Not even sure he picks out a tie in the morning without running it by Larry)
Wow! Who knew? The way to get Obama’s attention is through the polls! Heck, all of us retards, drug addled, purist, sanctimonious hippies should have just STFU because it might affect his poll numbers! Good Night, Charlie Brown!
Yeah, right! He’s made us so happy in the past we might just overlook his treasonous default on the Constitution.
Yeah, bugga bugga…this is the 10th year of 9/11 and they are ramping up the old AQ crappola…even though they’ve had all the bugga bugga anniversaries in-between.
this is total BS and i dont believe a word of it.
why should we trust anything said here?
the truth is obama never had to even negotiate anything so there never was a debt standoff.
he never once said to tell republicans to include tax increases and HE put cuts to SS AND MEDICARE ON THE TABLE.
look you all can keep believing this bullshit if you dont have the sense to see the truth.
obama an agent for wall street wants to end medicare and send SS monies into the stock markeT
PERIOD!
lol…Rahm?
PS – Jane – that’s a superb photo at the top of the thread. Nicely done to whomever chose that.
The campaign of Hope will be a campaign of FEAR next year (“Do you want President Bachmann?”)
I don’t think he is inept. I think he did exactly what he wanted, this time and all the others. He took all the legislating out of the Dem Congress’s hands and took it to the back room.
Duuuuude. Go read the last 5,000 comments…you are not on the Barry Apologists Blog. LOL
Yep. It really does boggle the imagination that a team that ran a crackerjack campaign for the nomination can be so fucked up in the art of governing. Different skill sets, I guess. Basing policy negotiations on real-time polls is like Hitler making tactical decisions over a few yards of rubble at Stalingrad. It is senseless.
If the WH political team is worried now about poll numbers they’re gonna be in full blown panic before the end of the year.
Stupid is a condition. Ignorance is a choice. I’d say the ignorance quotient at the WH is off the charts.
Corporations control the government. Wash, rinse repeat.
Why do you need to scream at people who already know what you have to say?
does anyone still believe Obama is three steps ahead of eveyone else? John B figured Obama out and took him to the cleaners (much to harm for the American people) So not only is Obama corrupt but he dumb too…? Are we sure George is really in TX and not the WH!
BTW I saw Robert Rubin on Charlie Rose last night…ugh!!!!!!!! enough!!!!!!!!
Charlie we cut the debt and jobs will come roaring back…ugh!!!!!! Please Charlie would you ask any of these Clintonites a tough question like don’t they know it was THEIR polices that caused this mess?
“Sources say they decided to bite the bullet, accept a zero revenue deal and determined to spend the next year ‘making it up to liberals.’”
Does that mean I get a pony and a jar of Rick Santorum’s peach preserves?
Interesting how polls conflate Independents as though it was a party, but unlike the Democratic Party, is of a uniform political bent, the bent being whatever poll they’re taking; if GOP, a GOP bent, if Dems, a Dem bent.
But not to worry loyal Obamaites, he’s on a journey for a few days to listen, but not hear or give a rats ass about Midwest concerns.
Owe you one. Some iced tea?
TWOOPH! The economy will not be anywhere near what it should be by election time. He scrubbed every chance that was placed in his lap to do so.
Okay, I’ll grant you that was a bad idea. But are you so sure it wasn’t Rahm’s idea in the first place?
Boxturtle (Rahm’s brain is as full of evil ideas as Karl’s)
Compromise really means bend over.
Bipartisan really means both sides are gonna…well, you know..
This am’s MS post said it was Jelly. Said they skinned the peaches. Of course they would do that. Take off the best part. Der…..
Shall we? Let’s shall!
What Obama’s incompetent political advisors fail to recognize is that a massive number of former Democrats became Independents–first, following the shenanigans during the 2008 primary and, later, as disgust increased with each of Obama’s stand on issues, from FISA to endless wars. In other words, a lot of those “Independents” are the FDR core of the their former party. That’s the real reason Obama is tanking with Independents–they aren’t the right leaning voters that Plouffe, Axelrod and the others seem to think they are; rather, they are the disaffected, mostly former Democrats. Also, their numbers are growing.
Are you talking to us?
What is up today?
They should stop worrying about the polls and start worrying about the dow. Down 350 currently.
Boxturtle (The markets are ruling on Obama’s package. Money is moving to gold)
The “making it up to liberals” isn’t tolerable.
This feels so much like an abusive relationship. The violence happens (debt deal, and so many others), and then comes the contrition.
To hell with them. I will NOT be abused.
Can’t wait to find out what bold and progressive intiatives Obama thinks he can offer to placate the liberal base he’s been kicking in the stomach for the last two years.
As long as it doesn’t upset the Republicans too much, that is.
Maybe they’ll let him switch the toilet paper in the White House to 100% post-consumer recycled.
I’ve got some Tension Tamer that ‘s got lots of cool stuff in it, including, believe or not, Cat Nip.
And, you have a fabulous porch with a wonderful view.
Ahhhhh, now that’s better.
yep. gold is nearing 1,700 an ounce.
Marmalade’s much better.
You already are. Have been, I mean.
Hahaha!
The cultists will say you never really loved him. And you didn’t send him a birthday present. LOL.
It’s got all the good stuff still in it. But, some other people’s mileage may vary. I suppose. :)
That line reminds me of:
“Ah, honey. I’m sorry I forgot the anniversary. I’ll make it up to you next year.”
I say, HELL NO! Give me the card now and I’ll go get exactly what I want now, not next year!
No, it’s more like holding the icepack on your eye and stopping the bleeding from your lip…
He says, “I didn’t mean it baby. I’ll never do it again, I promise!”
“You know I love you. I just lose my temper sometimes.”
You must be eavesdropping! LOL
If they think the public is mad at him now, just wait until the rest of those dirty secrects in the deficit bill he signed come out. There is more than just the Pentagon give away.
U Vill and U vill like it.
Well, they don’t have to eat it then. I love marmalades, jams and preserves. Jelly, not so much.
Thanks! I better get that straight–Santorum Jelly is clearly the most important political story of the day, with all due respect (namely, none) to President Carebear…
I may never be able to eat jelly again…ewwww
Sinistar and lsls,
Nah, I’ve just spent a lot of years on this earth. I already know how it goes.
If every time a bell rings an angel gets their wings, what happens to confidence fairies when the stock market drops?
Thank you Jane for letting us know the ‘skinny’; I am now convinced that the President isn’t really,really smarter than me. Though the dynamic does remain the same.
LOL! They have to talk about something besides the bill he signed yesterday. OMG! That would make people even madder than they are now.
I can’t remember if I’ve ever bought a jar of jelly in my life.
(Homer Simpson voice:) Boysenberry Preserves. I’m one foot in heaven just thinking about it.
Saying Obama can’t win in 2012 is like saying in 2007 that Hillary couldn’t lose.
Hollis, the Labor Secretary is to come up on MSNBC shortly. I wonder what she has to say about the next 12 months. It should be a good laugh.
I can believe Obama is smarter than his advisers, because his advisers are complete idiots.
He might win, but it won’t be with the help from my vote. I’m done. Charred in fact!
Their phones start ringing and their caller id shows a 202 area code.
Boxturtle (then they send out a tweet saying “CLAP HARDER”)
Axelrod is the number one on the short bus!
it appears the markets™ have provided them with quite the, um, opportunity
I didnt get the impression that boener was really master of those negotiations either, but that obama was SO bad, that boener couldnt help coming out ahead by simply having a bottom line position. obama,by not having any intellectual or moral baseline at all, is quickly driven from any position he pretends to hold.
Right? And “jelly” just has so many other conottations, doesn’t it? Ironically, it makes it a more fun story , if not an important one.
Kicks just keep getting harder to find.
The question is, will liberals go for the makeup sex the administration intends to offer? My guess is that they will.
So there’s still room for Obamarama to be a complete and utter idiot…
I’m looking forward to Sunday and Daniel Ellsberg. If Jane finds his ideas about 3rd party viability interesting……who knows what might be around the corner.
Obama is in a bad position because his wounds are self-inflicted. He has turned the art of compromise into a ridiculous virtue for governing, a virtue, for the most part, which has been a disaster for us, himself and the economy. We have a Democratic president who is afraid to embrace actual democratic policies.
their bottom line has been SCOTUS! all along, but it appears Pres. Clueless destroyed that in nominating some winger to UT USAA yesterday
Aaaaand Pelosi (probably on the orders of Obama, who as Jane noted above thinks being tough is bad for his poll numbers) has let everyone know she’s going to cave early and often.
Ha! Yeah, but they are only saying a few words about the sell off. Not too much to attribute it to the 95% of what the repugs wanted.
I dunno. The politicians keep kickin’ us.
The heck of it is, I have it on good authority that the jelly is actually quite tasty and would do well at any farmers market.
Boxturtle (Certainly, it must easier to stomach than Rick)
Right. America can’t have an angry black man right now. OMG! That would shake the ground under the NeoCons. Nope, he can’t ever do that.
Oh please don’t use the words santorum and jelly in the same sentence.
The best thing I ever ate was Johnny’s mom’s homemade pear preserves. Their tree would be bent down to the ground with fruit, and I can remember picking pears barefooted and having to watch for the bees who were enjoying the overripe pears on the ground.
If you closed your eyes, it tasted like pure sunshine.
I miss her, the pear tree and the bees.
WHAT a fucking moron.
Well, this certainly brings the lie to his bullshit statement about not caring if he’s a one-term president.
Weasely motherfucker.
And the “professional left” is made up of a bunch a “retards?” You bet.
oh lordy, just now via twitter – WH is out with it’s Debt Ceiling – Myths & Facts
(my bold)
I am particularly fond of that extra gravy on our cat food
“only be acceptable if coupled with higher revenues from the most fortunate”
Peas For Our Time !
If Obama is so concerned about his Gallup numbers, maybe he should not be offering cuts to SS, something opposed by 80% of Americans.
If he knows what’s best for everyone, “[He] will not seek, nor will [he] accept the nomination of [his] party” at this time. He has a family to help raise, and that’s important. He can accomplish things out of office — or out of that office — instead of failing at every turn. He can run again, after he’s made good and important friends, and who knows, maybe run on single-payer universal HCR in 2016.
Har har. You know what I meant.
And, ouch, thank you for the reminder.
Pass the muscle rub ointment.
No contest.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher:
This is the best analysis of what happened during this mess and is the best profile of the ObamaRahma presidency: neo-liberal who is politically inept (unlike Clinton who was a neo-liberal who was politically brilliant). For many former Obama supporters whom I have met on the recall trail, this understanding of what transpired during the debt debacle will give some comfort and may make it easier for folks like me to convince ‘em that they can remake their party, at least at the local and state level, in the conspicuous absence of their President. In fact, I have been arguin’ since February that Obama’s silence on the union rights battle and fake budget crisis actually helped us in the long run because we wouldn’t have ‘im hung around our necks. In fact, I think Obama has made himself completely irrelevant in the next 15 months unless he wants to insure that he doesn’t get re-elected.
Thank you again, Sister Jane and for those Firepups out there who would like to take a little vacation into the heartland of democracy to do some phone work and canvas some turf for GOTV, come and stay in my house and we’ll putcha to work.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS YOUR REPUBLIC IF YOU CAN KEEP IT!!!
WOW!!!! I mean WOW!!!
If I amto believe this, Orange slushy Pumpkinhead was telling the truth. Obama DID move the goal posts. Not that the republican legislaturds in the house would EVER have agreed to the revenue enhancements, but seems like Obama was sdriving the car when the wheels fell off.
Well. I suppose our next president will be Romnyr or Perry. I’m from Texas…..you people DO NOT want Rick Perry as president. PLease tell your friends and neighbors and family and ANYONE who will listen. Democrats, vote in the republican primaries. Hell, vote twice. STOP PERRY!!!
This message has been sponsored by Texans everywhere concerned for America and the planet.
If I hear or see the words balanced approach again I am going to bite someone.
I have to get outta here to get some dealies at the hardware store. But let me hit you with this before I run:
U.S. Treasury yields are dropping into the cellar as Treasury bond prices rocket to the moon.
(I wonder if Cantor shorted the yields or shorted the prices? Cuz if it wuz the latter, Cantor is deeply under water at this point. heh)
Meanwhile, stocks are swirling the toilet. European stocks were hammered today: in the UK and Germany, stock markets were down 3.4%; in France, the market was down 3.9%. In the U.S., they are down three percent (3%) and more across the boards.
I refuse to give any web traffic to the WSJ, but suffice it to say that momentum is gigantic, even for an August vacation month. Trading volumes are through the roof. Normal daily trading volume for the NYSE has been about 4 billion shares. Yesterday it was 5.7 billion shares and at mid-day today it was on track for 7 billion shares. Similarly, normal daily trading volume on the NASDAQ is about 2 billion shares; yesterday it was 2.6 billion and today at mid-day it was on track for 3 billion.
Don’t believe it, CBL.
You can read it if you like. It will take some time to scour over it though. I believe it is S-361 Deficit Reduction Act. There are cuts in there and they want it all to be a secrect.
I was just gobsmacked by how insulting they are -
I am convinced that Obama is being told he CAN win re-election by Plouffe and some others by doing what he HAS been doing.
..
..
I think they BE wrong. We have a liberal blog down here in Houston called “The Daily Hurricane” with some excellent bloggers. Way over 60% of our Obama supporters are disenfranchised and dissappointed anough I don’t think they will vote for him again unless Perry is the alternative. (See my previous post regarding Perry.)
If you have anything left in your 401K, call them now and move everything you got left to the safety zone.
Jane, I love that your lede is the Florida poll. I wonder who was running nano-targeted ads in Florida against this sordid deal? hmmmmmm?
start a garden with heirloom seeds….otherwise, you will have to re-buy the genetically altered seeds every year, plus most of the genetic seeds are Monsanto with that pathogen from the Roundup…
ha! “safety” in a 401(k), that’s rich!
Actually, I never heard of that. Do they really claim they can give you “safety” from the market? If so, folks probly already jumped into their “safety” zones in March when the imminent-shutdown tanked markets the first time this year. At least I sincerely hope so. Really. I hate that workers are sitting ducks for this market meltdown.
I get a lotta joy outta seeing markets tank like this because it proves what I know but is hard to convince ordinary salaried workers: stock & bond markets are a giant casino. Hardly any humans actually invest any more. More than 60% of all trades here and in Europe & Asia are executed by high-frequency trading computers. Those computers aren’t working for you or me.
dang! gotta run. seeya pups, back in a while.
Great! Sticking you finger in the air and trying to govern according to which way the wind is blowing isn’t leadership. Problem with this guy is that he isn’t ready to be President.
The only thing this guy has been able to do is to come up with a political strategy to beat the Clinton’s and make a good speech. After that, it’s been mostly downhill.
I already re-registered online as a Green. I believe at this point it should be the 3rd party path of least resistance for the left.
I think this whole “SuperCongress” nonsense could be used as precedent that House/Senate rules can also be rewritten to allow the construction of multi-party coalition governments.
“spend the next year making it up to liberals”
Obama’s thrown trillions in the street for bankers to steal. The only campaign promise Obama kept was getting his daughters stupid dog. I refuse to watch Obama speeches anymore. We now know it’s just talk.
All the while S and P and the other credit rating agencies are pulling the strings on these puppets. Less that 24 hours after the Debt deal Al Hunt is on Colbert putting the fear of the rating agencies in the hearts and minds of Americans,like a preacher on Sunday.
I don’t know about yours, but mine and many others have several options and I can choose a safe group that is not as risky as an all stock group.
As Jed Lewison said, “In other words, Mitch McConnell did his job. Democrats could learn a thing or two from him.”
Hmmmm. Who was that?
;)
Obama and the dems let the thugs frame this issue as a “crisis” of deficit and debt that was “unsustainable”, just like a family budget. To me that shows a level of incompetence and/or ignorance that amounts to a willful disregard of the facts,either of which is not really forgivable. He should announce he will not run in 2012 to give us a chance to protect what we can. He is not the leader we once thought and he will not become so in the next 15 months. I am very disappointed in this guy.
In response to Bluetoe2 @ 9 (show text)
And without one Republican voting for it. Amazing.
fyi – saw on the twitter yesterday that both Italian and EuroZone officials have subpoenaed (sp?) docs about Ratings Agencies involvement in the Italian Job
Thanks, Norske. Did a lot of head scratching over the course of the week and made a lot of phone calls trying to figure out what was going on. That’s the best I can piece it together, although I’d be the first to say that nobody can ever know everything that motivates a series of actions this complex. But from talking with various Democrats, those were the broad strokes from their perspective. I’m sure the Republicans would have a quite different slant on things, but since the Democrats rarely talk to their Republican counterparts, I never hear that side.
Governance costs political capital. After spending a huge amount of its political capital on PPACA, the administration has been forced to ration its reserves through the November election. The cynic in me suspects that this is why real reform on social issues has been held up for so long… when things go bad – and some bad things will happen occasionally to everyone – its nice to have bones to throw to your base (small ones for small problems… big ones for catastrophes). This is not unique to this administration, of course, but it’s the one we’re watching now.
Sign the extension of the Bush Tax Cuts on December 17th… sign the repeal of DADT on December 22nd. Complaints about the War Powers Act? Kill Osama Bin Laden. Get beat on the debt ceiling… start pushing for jobs.
“Why didn’t we push for jobs and the repeal of DADT in January 2009?” Because when it hits the fan, you need something to stop your slide in the polls.
If you want to estimate how many crises the White House is preparing for look at the changes you expected to see but haven’t yet. Where is the push for card check? Closing Guantanamo? Repeal of DOMA? A serious approach to climate change?
If I were a gambling man, I’d wager the first two will be brought out for either small offenses to the base or to distract from ongoing problems (like unemployment). Repeal of DOMA is perfectly set up for extension of the Bush Tax Cuts.
It’s the last one that keeps me up at night. There is no more important issue than climate change to me (an Independent) as well as many on the Left. I have no idea what I would trade to get that, but it would be a lot – and it WILL be a lot. That one is being saved for the big f-you to the Left. I don’t know what that will be… a complete end to Medicare or privatization of Social Security? Something worse?? It’s always darkest before it goes pitch black.
Point of clarification: Does anybody know if the $800-billion-revenue deal (which apparently would have been THE deal before the Gang of Six stepped in) included the chained CPI for Social Security and the higher Medicare eligibility age that Obama wanted?
Thanks for the tick-tock, crazy jane.
I was told it would probably be repeal of DOMA, but didn’t include that in the post because I took it as a wild-arsed guess.
So where is our market experts? it’s down 350 points!!!
the debate continues
who is dumber?
the Obama WH
or
the tea party?
the stock market is crashing?
ever heard of guy named FDR? Obama
spending cuts in a depression? really?
Paul Krugman call you Hoover last night OBAMA
Don’t know. This is what Roll Call had to say:
Evidently “Republican and Democratic sources” said there were substantial cuts to Social Security and Medicare, but Boehner said there weren’t.
How is OBAMA going to conquer this?
“substantial Social Security reform”
Who knew Christmas now comes in July!
Who ever gets the GOP nomination wins the WH
it is this simple
As we knew it would be… some here have posited that these theives & bandits (to put it nicely) were jonesing for a market drop and were doing whatever deals one does to make money off of that. Anyone want to bet against that?
Anybody know if obama is going to make a speech to shore up stocks. It might provide some comic relief.
Thanks for the info, Jane. And for your indispensable reporting generally!
Is it good or bad that the Onion apparently agrees with our view of Obama?
Debt Ceiling Deal Required Tough Concessions –
By Both Democrats And Democrats Alike
http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-debt-ceiling-deal-required-tough-concessions,21067/
WASHINGTON—A day after signing legislation that raised the government debt ceiling and authorized steep budget cuts, President Obama thanked Democrats as well as Democrats for their willingness to make tough, but necessary, concessions during negotiations.
It may say Rick Santorum’s peach preserves on the label, but it’s code for a jar of “frothy fecal matter”.
“I scratched my head and asked how a deal that the CBO concluded would increase unemployment and slow GDP growth over the course of the next year could possibly put the President in a better position for the next election. The response was that they were so worried about the direction of the poll numbers they believed they had to do this or none of that would matter, and would worry about that later.”
If it was me..
At this point I jumped and yelled “you lie” to the WH rep…
he has it SO WRONG it is a sad sad thing
it’s NOT “liberals” he dissapointed, it’s the MAJORITY of not only this country but the planet
it’s moderates, it’s conservatives alike who wanted revenue, the ONLY people who didn’t want revenue were the kock suckers, the tea partiers, the limbaugh burgers
it was NOT “the liberals” it was EVERYONE
man this guy just does not get it
That goes to the heart of it.
Looking for a little justice in this clusterfuck of a negoitation, I can say Boehner played Obama for a sap just as Obama played me for a sap to get my vote. Precious little solace – but something.
You know what’s between Iraq and a Hard Place (for empires)?
Iran.
I predict war by xmas.
I subscribe to the maxim: “Never ascribe to incompetence that we can be explained by evil intent.” Also, I’ve suspected subconscious racism among those who keep insisting that “Obama’s heart is in the right place.” But, Jane’s report is making me rethink both of those. Maybe, in fact, he really is that fucking stupid.
BTW, this report is yet another tour de force by Jane, who I insist deserves a pulitzer prize for her reporting on the healthcare negotiations and the Catfood Commision. She was many months ahead of everybody else and almost preciently got things right, e.g., her now famous “Countdown to Lieberman” article.
Thanks for this analysis, and kudos to Krugman for finally holding the President’s feet to the fire. Reich has been helping a lot too, and Olbermann seems to be moving in the right direction. Maybe Firedoglake will be able to jumpstart the support we need from even more of the “liberal” MSM.
I really need to get me a tin of these Disappointmints…! ;-)
ding!
Exactly right.
This whole fiasco has cost Obama my support and vote, period. At this point I think I trust the democrats as an opposition party rather than what they actually are: republicans, but representing bankers and finance instead of oil and coal.
get thee to a nunnery Barry
You can probably drop the last two words. The polls have always been in the driver’s seat. I guess that’s the change we can believe in, or at least its the “change” we see in front of our faces.
Great article. I didn’t put the whole thing together in my own mind, but once you laid it out, it all seems very coherent as a cause-and-effect model of the sausage making. Looks like Big O is out of his league.
W. Bush raised the security level on the eve of his “re-election” bid–and he won. If not for instilling more fear, I don’t think he would have won a first time. (I say a first time bc he was selected by the supreme court the first time.) Obama can’t fix the economy bc it is being manipulated. This should actually be a time of good economy and abundance for us. The first great depression came to an end due to WWII spending. We are in three wars now and the economy should be stellar. It is shit for most Americans. All the war and military spending–then high unemployment? What would the unemployment rate be if we ended the fake wars? Total. BS.
it’s a myth promoted by the war machine that “war creates a good economy”
you get nothing from war, your investments are turned to dust.
spend that EXACT same money on jobs and research and domestic or even international projects and you get a FAR better economy then spending those funds on war, not only do you get a better economy, you are left with assets for your investment, you are left with roads and health care and parks and board walks
nothing but propaganda that war brings a good economy, they are comparing wasting money on war vs spending no money at all, instead compare spending the same money you spend on war and use it for job creating, bing, far better economy
Glen Ford has a very worthwhile article about the debt ceiling deal posted on the Black Agenda web site.
http://blackagendareport.com/content/ruin-nation-obama-catastrophe
Ruin-Nation: The Obama Catastrophe
Black America remains more concerned about how Obama is doing as he seeks another term in office, rather than how the African American people are doing under Obama’s center-right, Wall Street- and war-loving regime – Blacks are doomed to a period of suffering unprecedented in the modern age.
Intuitively, I would think war would bring us all down. Everything gets destroyed and coffers are emptied. I would have no problem with economists stating it was only a coincidence that WWII and our nation coming out of the depression occured at the same time. It’s good to correct the message since the 1940s and move on to say war really is bad for nations and all living things.
Thanks for the play by play, Hamsher.
Well, for those keeping score in the “Is Obama Evil or Incompetent?” game, mark one up for incompetence.
“Sources say they decided to bite the bullet, accept a zero revenue deal and determined to spend the next year “making it up to liberals.””
We’re panicky and incompetent but yet have the wherewithal to fix things in the future? Sure.
“But the White House was focused on the singular goal of stopping the hemorrhaging in Obama’s poll numbers, so they accepted it after McConnell agreed to a fig leaf about phantom defense cuts which Democratic leaders could use to sell the deal to their caucuses”
A wanton and selfless display of concern for the Republic.
“The notion that there was anything in the bill in the end that was more than a cosmetic victory for Democrats is largely illusory”
Isn’t a cosmetic victory all they were after anyway?
The trouble with Obama, the DINOs and Kos is that they are all obsessed with process. That works when times are good and all you have to do is triangulate a focus group.
It’s not going to help you win or at least end wars and get out of a depression.
of course
war sends the bucks to a few hundred elite families in the munitions/weapons biz
But he remains proud and clueless having struck a compromise, the art of the deal. For Obama, the goal was the succesful conclusion of the deal not buying the car, as if he were a contestant on a car-buying game show and the cameras were rolling. The use and value of the car were irrelevant considerations, so he is stunned and confused about his wife’s displeasure. “Doesn’t she understand how hard it is to negotiate, how tough car salesmen are? And everyone was watching me,” he thinks. The next day, his pal Rahm tries to comfort him, “Ignore her. She’s fucking retarded.”
These are the thoughtless actions of technocrat, a manager.
We expect the US Presidents to be a leader and a thinker. They are not. They are televised technocrats. But because of our expectations, we are left only to conclude that they are either evil or incompetent.
Fascinating in light of Obama’s reported electoral strategy with the debt ceiling negotiations of “courting the independent vote.” As I’ve been saying to anyone who would listen, independents are losing jobs, too. The profile of an independent as upper middle class is collapsing along with the entire middle class. And what profit a prez if he gains the independent vote and loseth everyone else? Lotta dumb, poorly plotted moves by the WH, even from a nakedly ambtious soul-selling angle, let alone from the pov of our desperate needs as a country.
But. . . the populist rhetoric is being ramped up! And don’t worry, lots will fall for it. As long as the Republicans are outright monsters, he’s in with a prayer. And the electoral game is all there is for the WH, the media, and even a lot of starving people.
Ha–they’ll be screwing down the lid of my coffin before they “win my approval”. This administration is politically and morally bankrupt.
A newbie perhaps . . . ;-)
But if it’s one of us, we need to welcome in the most GRACIOUS manner.
BINGO to the 9th Power! I would add that they are hyper-modern technocrats: “the means justify the ends!”
*G*
And, the DLCC n DNC will ensure she comes back for ’12, after they have a quiet talk with Obama, slap him on the butt and tell him good job; as they take the ball from him and hand it over the Teh Shillary.
LeSigh.
Hi Jeb . . . er, Mr President . . .
Charred outside, raw inside . . . black n blue as we used to call it in the restaurant steak houses biz . . . *G*
It’s just a correction.
*straightface*
What you have to understand is that Obama will NEVER take a serious approach to dealing with global warming.
Stuff like DOMA and DADT are not a real problem for the Koch brothers, those things don’t really get in the way of the corporations, so they are bones which Obama can throw. But anything which might annoy big business is not going to happen with Obama.
IT will spell the end of the world as we know it, Teddy, and I know yo know the details.
Sadly, the only other thing on my death of we the people radar would be a big false flag event here at Homeland.
Which at least, would NOT spell the immediate end of the world as we know it . . .
I hate seeing someone like you, as well informed as you are, playing up the Iran Card . . . cuz it gives me great pause to my smug belief it just can’t happen as it WILL spell the end of the world as we know it.
Do you have any thoughts to share as to why you believe what ya do? Cuz, you are shakin my core beliefs it won’t happen . . .
The yinyang style of governance does seem to be O’s modus operandi. Add immigration reform to mix, cause that’s where the numbers are for him at this point. That’s also a win for R’s, but all will put on a fine show of si se puede and hell no you can’t. The only obstacle will be jobs, or more precisely, how the voting public reacts to the obvious realization decent paying ones aren’t coming back. I’m amazed they’ve kept this turd of an economy afloat this long. If too many exit the pool, food fights will start.
Larue, I fear it will be started by Israel, Bibi is in dire straits of late… The Israeli masses are even pushing Baby Strollers in Protest…!
Between a rock and a hard place? I thought we were voting for President, not class president! I won’t vote for Obama again (unless he does a truly impossible turn around!) and I won’t vote republicant! Progressive options are few and far between – but stink on my shoes once is enough!
BETWEEN a rock and a hard place?
Nuh-uh. He came out from UNDER that rock.
The only way it DOESN’T happen is if we can’t afford it; either because we can’t free up enough of the requisite troops, ships (actually we have the ships), and planes, or because we don’t have enough money to see it through for the first few months – or both.
It was official policy, under Bush, that we were going to attack Iran. Not HOPE or DESIRE to attack Iran – but that we WERE going to attack Iran.
There was a conference of government officials given, in very early 2002, in which an administration official told everyone attending, that it was administration policy that we were going to attack Iraq, Iran and North Korea (in that order and mirroring the Axis of Evil speech given a couple of weeks before) and to prepare themselves and their families. And that anyone that didn’t support that policy (the government officials in attendance) needed to find another job. I watched the media circus play out over the next year (are we going to attack Iraq? maybe we can avoid it? weapons inspectors to Iraq! no evidence of wmd! mushroom clouds!), knowing that at the end of the day that it was a foregone decision and we were going in.
But the thing didn’t play out as planned – they never do – and we got bogged down. So the attack planned for Iran kept getting pushed back, and back, and back. Until Bush was out of time. As well, hand it to the Iranians for surprising us for with their “new found” capabilities every few months, which made us stop and recalculate how much damage they could do to us. They either are more capable than we think or they are the worlds best bull-shit artists. As someone in Iran said “we play chess; the Americans play baseball.”
So that was Bush. Obama picked up exactly where Bush left off, in regards to Iran policy. Has he plotted a different course in administration policy toward WAR with Iran since taking office? Don’t know, but given how closely he has stuck with the previous administration in almost every aspect of domestic and foreign policy, I wouldn’t bet on it.
I like this bit from John Ralston Saul’s “Voltaire’s Bastards”:
“A man who uses power to do evil is in theory judged to have been conscious of his acts and to be as fit for punishment as a perpetrator of premeditated murder. But the technocrat is not trained on that level. He understands events within the logic of the system. The greatest good is the greatest logic or the greatest appearance of efficiency or responsibility for the greatest possible part of the structure.”
And from “The Unconscious Civilization:
“[O]ur élite is primarily and increasingly managerial. A managerial élite manages. A crisis, unfortunately, requires thought. Thought is not a management function. Because the managerial élites are now so large and have such a dominant effect on our educational system, we are actually teaching most people to manage, not to think. Not only do we not reward thought, we punish it as unprofessional.”
It is also useful in times like these to read some of H. L. Mencken’s old stuff.
He won’t win in 2012. He will either lose big or lose small but he won’t get support from the left, right or independents, who are not ‘the center’, who thought they elected FDR but got best case Hoover, worse case Hitler.
There has been for decades a long term plan to stay at war in the Middle East. 9/11 was just the excuse they needed to launch it. After all war is one of our biggest industries, perhaps our biggest. We are playing out the last of the colonial era, taking over where Britain left off. It’s not working, but like our economy and politics and every aspect of our society today the fact that it’s not working means we will do more of it. Failure is our only option. That should be our government’s motto, no matter who is in office.
How’s Obama going to react to any polls? At this point he needs McConnel’s permission to flush the toilet in the White House. Chris Rock would have made a way better first “black” President. He would have humiliated those fools on the right instead of shining their shoes.