Robert Hurt is still taking input from his constituents, according to the person I spoke to at his office. I just called to register my opposition.

i predict my Rep. Karen Bass (CA-33) will be a fake “no”, casting her vote after passage is assured. the wording of her online poll is a tell:

“Should Congress find a balanced solution to our fiscal challenges by raising the debt ceiling to avoid defaulting and reducing the National deficit responsibly to grow our economy?”

in her KGO interview this a.m. the hosts asked about the members not having enough time to read the bill they will be voting on, to which she replied brightly “you don’t have to read every little page” you just read the pre-prepared summary!

Cliff Notes Congress, about sums it up.

That is if the input has a $100,000.00 check attached. I am so tired of the corporatist Democrats and the corporatist Republicans. the Tea Party was WAY out in front of liberals this time. They are tearing the structure of the GOP apart which is fine with me. Now liberals need to do the same thing with the Democratic Party or abandon it and start a third party with the forgotten people as a base. Because they sure as Hell outnumber the corporatist DINO base.

Mike Doyle, Michael Capuano, Gary Ackerman, Larsen, DeLauro, Rangel all trashed the bill in the caucus meeting.

So I am assuming they are a yes?

Anyone watching the CPC presser? No access to media here…

jim mcgovern’s dc office: still reviewing the legislation and taking input from constituents. i said vote “no” — don’t enable the next cat food commission. there are other options, use the house floor to tell the president to use coin seignoiorage… (also who to call for legal and economic information).

i also tweeted the following (would love it if this could be sent by constituents to all congress members):

@RepMcGovern Tell the President to end mfg crisis now! Cut the Gordian Knot with the Platinum Sword use Coin Seigniorage http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/30/1000778/-Cut-the-Gordian-Knot-with-the-Platinum-Sword?detail=hide

If the Rule passes they will go straight to the vote on the bill.

Sounds like they have the votes.

Progressive Caucus press briefing

http://www.c-span.org/Events/House-and-Senate-Take-Up-Compromise-Debt-Plan/10737423198-8/

As of 4:05 pm, a staffer for Yvette Clarke says only that she is “strongly leaning against” the bill. 100% of the calls this staffer has received have been against.

Are they saying anything important? I have no sound…

Barney frank is a confirmed yes? Did he give a reason?

Earlier comments quoted Barney Frank and others justifying their yes vote by saying the military cuts might end the Afghan-Iraq Wars, but according to this from TPM: “The Progressive stalwart, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) emerged from the meeting distributing copies of the Congressional Budget Office’s parsing of the report. He had highlighted a line noting that the proposed defense spending caps would not apply to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.”

How are Frank, Kucinich, et al going to defend their votes now?

Will they even try to defend their votes? The whole process has been a transparant sham.

Woolsey is still undecided.

Actually, she just stated she would vote against, at the CPC press conference.

all claim they’ll vote No – 74

Thanks for the link, have been watching.

Her office said undecided so they must not have gotten the message. Well, good. Thanks for the update.

Watch out for last minute changes I bet many pols are holding out until Obama and or the GOP meet their bribe price weshould watch how many say no then vote yes with little or no warning then we look at them their friends and family to see if they got any gifts, job offers, women, men barn yard animals in return for their vote.

TARP II: Electric Bugaloo
It’ll be interesting to see if the same folks (on both sides of the aisle) who opposed TARP will also oppose this.

Of course the sinister thing (in a fun way!) about coin seigniorage is that it makes the Tea Party’s deepest held belief possible– there’s no need to ever increase the debt ceiling. Of course it IS necessary for the govt to deficit spend, but its completely unnecessary for taxpayers to borrow their own money from Wall Street banks to do so.

Very good question.

From “Obama unfurls deal to avert U.S. default” (By Agence France-Presse, Monday, August 1st, 2011 — 7:36 am):

Asian markets cheered the deal, with the dollar climbing against the yen, crude oil prices surging and share prices in Tokyo, Hong Kong and Sydney all enjoying sharp gains in early trade.

Japan — the top holder of US debt after China — praised the agreement, with Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano saying he expected it will “lead to the stabilization of markets.”

Republicans crowed that the framework did not explicitly call for raising tax revenues — at least in the first wave of deficit cuts — despite Obama’s repeated calls for increasing revenues from the rich and wealthy corporations.

{ snip }

Leading asset manager BlackRock said in a statement it was “encouraged by momentum to raise US debt ceiling, but believes investors need to see real deficit reduction without delay.”

Lieberman now on C-SPAN … He has to pause to remember which government he is talking about. { LOL }

Jane, I scanned your whip count… and Thank You for keeping up the fight! But one thing… forget about his “Conviction” TV ad. If there’s one member of Congress who will oppose the Super Duper, you know Ron Paul will!

I know you think he has no shot at the nomination, but this whole vote makes me think about how wonderful it would be to have an actual surgeon in the White House. He’s licensed to do what needs to be done… a surgical implantation of a spine in the Congress!!!

now Ellison backtracking from that

Either that, or they know not to trust CPC pledges.

once it’s clear Boehner has votes, will Wasserman-Schultz and others flip flop ??

204 — need 216 to pass. Almost there.

Yes, then all the good soldiers will line up

Biden up:

Q – “Progressives are feeling sold down the river.”

Biden: “Sure. Sword of Damocles over our heads. But there is one great point. It can’t come up again until 2013.”

“Doesn’t prevent us from funding job-creating legislation, like education and infrastructure. There’s room within the budget.

And once again, if we don’t do this, the world comes to an end.”

Well, I feel better now.

Y’all?

See Biden on CSpan so I turned up the volume and hear him say that “to get to the growing of the economy, we had to get this out of the way”…now, granted this is totally out of context because I don’t know what he said before it but it certainly strikes me as someone who has no clue what this grand bargain will actually do to the economy…plus they are (heard the Repubs just say it on CSpan and heard Biden say it earlier, that NOW, once this passes, ALL their time will be spent on jobs,jobs, jobs,….yeah, we believe that….once you have NO discretionary income at all, good luck trying to get jobs going…unless, of course, you are relying on trickle down for it………

heh.

Hell is on the way, so congress critters want to vote and run.

We all are going to get witness the most ruthless attacks ever on a USA president.

vote and run congress!

When people know they have fucked up, they run!

Grand Bargain…Isn’t that the sign they put on the worst car in the used car lot?

I just called my Congresswoman Karen Bass (Cal-33). She hasn’t committed; I told the young lady who answered the phone (and she recognized me — I call a lot) that I would actively support a primary opponent to Ms. Bass if she votes to support this monstrosity.

hey homie !

via twitter – he also claimed it wouldn’t affect infrastructure or educational spenind in the future

puff, puff, give

Ah, Joe Biden, the man who put Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court. Always a pleasure to hear his opinion.

I am really pissed. I just called Frank’s office, and the woman I spoke with literally laughed. Like it was flipping hysterical that I should call to complain about this vote.

calling this POS a hoopty implies that it will work – for a month or two anyway.

this is the car behind the lot up on concrete blocks and no engine.

Wasserman-Schultz is for the bill. Period. Why would you think otherwise?

And why would anyone need an explanation from Barney Frank? We’re talking about the same Barney Frank, right?

I’m afraid some of you people are in denial about what the Democratic Party is all about.

Let me put it to you this way: The Democratic Party, the Wasserman Schultzes and the Barney Franks included, will never be a force for genuinely progressive change in this country. Never. And as long as the left keeps deluding itself with notions to the contrary, they can expect more of the same crap they’re receiving from Obama and company today.

It’ll be interesting to see if the same folks (on both sides of the aisle) who opposed TARP will also oppose this

re tarp 1: first house vote failed, second house vote passed.

i’m especially curious about those who switched sides last time.

I love that “sugar-coated satan sandwich” remark….says it all.

thanks.

*cough*

It’s a real win there, Joe. Jesus, I never expected Obama would have Biden so involved in policy. He’s such a BSer.

ouch. That’s some bad constituent service.

That was nearly my experience with my call to my critter. And my voice was calm, business-like and matter-of-fact.

could I suggest a replacement word for “Satan”?

“Civilization will end as we know it.”

That’s sooo 2008! But then, I guess the MOTU didn’t quite reach the goal line. I bet they’re annoyed that they’ve had to continue their fight for these three long years…

And once again, if we don’t do this, the world comes to an end.”

shock doctrine.

rule, not governance, via fear mongering. #fuckyouwashington

I didn’t make up the quote…but shit sounds good.

Announcer on C-Span just announced that Pelosi will support the bill — despite calling it “a sugar-coated Satan sandwich with a side of Satan fries”!

What a worthless sack of shit.

it gets better . . .

per jbendery twitter:

Rep. DeFazio says Biden told House Dems, if all else had failed, Obama was willing to invoke the 14th Amendment

so he’s treating progs as he does teajhadists – letting them know he’ll surrender just the same thankyewverymuch

No, no, no…After last night “Nation In Crisis” (and last night was a POS) this is the car they are putting lipstick on but the engine fails down the block.

It is the car that should be behind the lot up n blocks but is “for sale” as a grand bargain.

Cohen from Tennessee is torn because he wants to support the prez? Why? Obama not only can’t do anything FOR these people because he has no coattails but he will hurt them badly with their voters. Makes no sense. The Ds in Congress should tell Obama to – well, whatever.

once you have NO discretionary income at all, good luck trying to get jobs going…unless, of course, you are relying on trickle down for it………

It’s simple, cut food stamps to pay for it.
(like last time.)

She really is…

As of now 230 yea (9 Dems).
It passed

Oh joy.

I agree

Progressives are watching a Kabuki show?

this Kabuki show was produce months ago

Progressives need to stop jumping from issue to issue and plan to attack so call liberals in 2012.

and we need to keep our attack plans quiet!

it is easy to defeat an enemy that don’t see you coming.

what democrats have the bluest seats in congress? those need to be our targets

#FU DC

What a sick, dysfunctional mess.

The Ds in Congress should tell Obama to – well, whatever.

Again, I seem to have several suggestions…..

Harry’s worked so hard on this POS he waxes poetic:

Today 3:58 PM Harry Reid Pines For His Pomegranates

The unemployed aren’t the only ones suffering from the debt deal — the senators who are voting for it apparently are getting homesick.

Harry Reid in particular misses his figs and pomegranate trees, he said in a Senate floor speech.

“For me personally, I’ve been here for a long time. I have a home in Nevada that I haven’t seen in months,” Reid said. “My pomegranate trees are, I’m told, blossoming and have some pomegranates on them.”

“I have some fig trees and roses and things that I just haven’t seen,” the Senate majority leader added. “So I have constituents that I’m anxious to see, friends I need to visit with, relatives I need to visit with. So as soon as we can complete our work, I’d like to move as quickly as I can to the summer recess period.”

Reid was inspired to wax nostalgic by Sen. Mark Begich (D-Alaska), who preceded Reid on the floor, holding up a poster of a 40-pound salmon that his 9-year-old son caught.

“You know, I’m here and I wish I was home, to be very frank with you,” said Begich, who admitted that he had to miss his family’s celebration of the boy’s birthday last weekend. “As a parent, you know, every birthday is huge, makes a difference.”

“While I’m here, they were enjoying life,” Begich said, explaining that his son texted the photo. Begich was so moved he had it printed up and brought it out to the floor to make a point about how leaders like himself and Reid have to “suck it up” on the debt deal.

As Begich explained, his son had picked up that phrase somewhere, and he thought it summed up the Senate debt deal debates.

That’s because the photo of the fish and his son — caught by his wife and the boy just a few days ago while Begich wrestled with the debt impasse — reminded him of one of the boy’s sayings.

“Is it a perfect solution? No. Does it have some issues that I’m still concerned about? It’s going to be tough, and we’ll get criticism for things we could have done, but we are where we are and we need to move forward,” Begich explained. “As my son would say, we just got to ‘suck it up, buttercup.’”

If all goes well, the votes will be done by Tuesday, and Begich will be catching salmon with Jacob, and Reid will be enjoying his figs. And the unemployed will have to wait, at least until mid-September, when Congress returns and starts thinking about them again.

– Mike McAuliff

So do I but this is a family blog. :)

Progressives have got to stop being victims

COming in Sept 2011, the next Kabuki show

are we going to yell than? and at shocked?

we need to be running campaign ads against house members who pass this bill.

Lynn Woolsey – “We’ve already voted for a coupla steaming piles. I’m voting no on this one.”

that was a vote on Debate Rules, right ?

Fuckers.

On the Senate side, I’d be curious to see a matchup of both TARP votes and the April 2, 2009 (or thereabouts) Sense of the Senate vote on the Fed revealing the names of The Banksters who got bailed out… not via TARP, but via the secret bailouts that have not yet been revealed (remember, Bernanke only revealed $3.3 trillion of about $13 trillion in bailouts).

All three votes are indicative of the Corporatist / Populist breakdown in the Senate.

Is that the vote on the plan or on the debate rules?

Woolsley a no.

Yes.

The people of Memphis who elected Cohen would be difficult to convince that Obama would ever do anything to hurt the black community. It’s complicated. There’s room for him to have a genuine moral quandary there.
I fear that mostly, though, Cohen is a Party Loyalist.

I’ve got a fig tree right here for ya’, Harry………

Perhaps he’ll donate his fruit crop to the local food bank.

Oh wait, the top 20% do not support shared sacrifice.

Easy to cast a vote when it doesn’t matter.

Maxine Waters: “I’m very disappointed our negotiators weren’t tough enough.”

On twitter, claims that Joe Biden said O was willing to invoke 14th if Congress stalemate. In rational world, the vote should get zero Dem votes, but we don’t live there.

house progressive caucus press conference: deficit reduction, fiscal responsibility, need increased revenues blah blah blah.

dear CPC: progressive values need progressive economic policy.

on that basis, today, you FAIL!

please get a clue and if you need to, put james k. galbraith on your speed dial. (sorry ’bout that prof. galbraith, but your country needs you).

If he told them Obama wants to cut Social Security,
would that convince them?

No worries. All it takes is for St. Bernie to kill it in the senate.

Oh, wait, I just recalled his initials… Doooooh!

add pelosi to the yes column

Over at fox, their ‘un-scientific’ poll is running 71% against the debt deal.

Perhaps we should start a real movement to cut Congressional salaries. I’ll bet that’s something even the Tea Baggers would go for.

Update above says rules vote. Yay. I thought that was *the* vote.

“Never let a crisis go to waste”

absolutely. but only if biden is telling the truth.

do you think he’s blowing smoke in support of obama or telling the truth?

Begich and Reid:

There is a big difference between perfect and fair. I understand a bill may not be perfect but I do expect it to be fair.

voting yes is voting to continue to be a Tea Party hostage for the next decade.

Hence my fear that party loyalty is the biggest problem.
But, yeah.

Granny…get yer walker goin’ now so you might get to Thanksgivin’ dinner on time. We’ll be leavin’ in about an hour in the car, so that’ll give ya yer head start…

Oh BTW Granny, no turkey for you…yer gettin’ meow mix souffalay…us young workers don’t wanna pay for your din din…yer on yer own..ole DFH Boomer Burden.

This will pass. Dems who would have voted for it if they had to can pretend they voted NO. Obama will have his big birthday bash. The people will pay and politics will go on as usual. That is what will happen. Obama will not get challenged, and might even win. Even if he doesn’t he will go onto be very rich and get all kinds of xpotus benefits, including being able to spew on TV etc as an elder statesman.

This is how it has been for so very long and so long as we have the existing system it will not change. All we have been shown is how politicians hide behind all kinds of BS to dodge voting against something, and then at last minute when they know it will pass, come out swinging against it. Then go onto to campaign and use their “No” vote to say hey look “i am here for you”

Revolution is IMO the only option

And the guy who by sheer force of will pushed through the Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005 so that when the economy blew up, which he knew would soon happen, the millions of laid-off workers would be unable to declare themselves free of debt to their credit masters in order to survive….

Biden, water carrier for MBNA, not the little guy’s hero he tried to claim to be back as a candidate for president in 2008…..

At least the progressive caucus leadership told the truth there at the end.

You know, minutes before it passed.

Really does smell like political theater all around.

So this has gotta be passed so that Reid and Begich can engage in agriculture. How inspiring – a salmon is responsible for this trainwreck /s

Not Joe Walsh. Mister Fiscal Responsibility needs his new government job so he can afford to pay child support and stop being a dead beat dad.

I wonder how many of those teabagers have refused government health care and have bought private insurance polices to help force down medical costs? My guess would be 0

Obama was really for the Public Option too /s

It’s like this because we have enabled them to do it to us. I already went and changed my registration this morning to indie. I will never vote for anyone who symbolically or otherwise votes to protect money over people.

NOW…just minutes ago…the prog caucus updated their website with this:

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=61&sectiontree=5,61&itemid=382

Jesus christ.

The Congress will now take a month off. But the information on this pocket-picking is out and will be even more out while they are at home. I imagine they are going to get more than a sternly worded letter from their voters.

Yep. He lost me forever in 05. Snake.

No commitment from Peter Welch yet.

Well, this should be fun to watch.

The House must have enough Republican votes to pass it without any help so those Progressive Caucus words will be comforting when I’m working until I’m 97.

Amy Klobucher was reading letters from constituents—heartwarming pleas about sacrifice and compromise. I’m sure those weren’t the only letters she got but those were all she chose to read.

Best Actress—Klobucher

Best Actor—-Reid

Best Director—-Obama

Pelosi will support the bill

Too bad she can’t take it off the table, like impeachment.

Too bad she can’t take herself off the table, like out of office.

Please tell me where in this bill there is compromise and shared sacrifice?

No where.

With Joe, you never know. His claim could be meant to drive teaGOP to vote yes.

The system was rigged long before you and I were born. Think about an unelected body and one man FED Chair controls our monetary system. 9 for lifers get to decide our law. A controlled media. Have you ever seen the propaganda cartoons put up for WW11 telling americans to be patriotic and give their money to Uncle Sam. An education system that dumbs down the populations and sells the system as good, fair and wonderful. It is all by design and hard for people to wake up, when they are being lied and manipulated at so many levels and in so many ways

What would the tea baggers relish more, a delicious impeachment circus or savage cuts to the safety net with no tax hikes on the rich?

Anybody here surprised? You? You? You? I’m not surprised. Nope, nope, nope–not surprised at all….

I’m running out of words to express my contempt for Pelosi. She’s just like Obama.

Boxturtle (There, I’m done. I can’t top that)

up now
Jane’s House Debt Ceiling Watch Party: One Whole Hour of Debate

It only exists in Amy Klobucher’s letters. I kept thinking that her staff wrote most of them.

Face it, we lost everything the day obumer was elected pres.

FWIW, I’m not convinced that you should target the bluest seats only. Consider:

How is that new Senator from Delaware performing? How bout Bennett in Colorado? You may have won either of those seats.

sent faxes to Reid, Durbin, Mikulski, Cardin in Senate and to Pelosi, Hoyer and Chris Van Hollen in House at lunch time. (My in-laws live in Van Hollen’s district in Maryland.) In early afternoon, sent more faxes to Maryland delegation and two dozen Senators. Sent a final round of faxes to Senate leadership between 3:15 and 3:45. No responses to any of my faxes, did not expect any. Called Van Hollen at 4:30, his office phone was switched to VM only.

All of my faxes begged members of Congress to vote no on debt-ceiling deal. Later versions used Firedoglake script demanding vote against Super Congress, calling vote for Super Congress a vote to cut Medicare & Social Security, and promising we would not support them or any Democrats in the next election who vote for Super Congress.

Aw. Isn’t that sweeeet?

Did in CO – Bennet was primaried, Romanoff (favored by local party folks) was the challenger.

OFA came in and tipped the caucus over at the last minute. I was pissed beyond all measure.

Purty words.

“If this bill is defeated we urge the President to use his 14th” blah, blah, blah.

And if the bill is not defeated?

Wots yer plan then, Grijalva?

Real eleventh hour ‘leventy ‘leven chess-playin’ there Progressive Caucus.

Perhaps this entire Congress needs to spend more time with their families?

Putting food on ‘em and so forth?

Profiles in Coelenteration!

(Jellyfish and hydra of the Dimocrap Party unite! Get them tentacles afloppin’!!!)

DW

Please fax or send a copy of your de-registration so that the Dems see there are some consequences to their actions and to following Obama off a cliff. Maybe rep, senators, state Dem party HQ, DNC, and, of course, the White House.

Nate Silver morphs into full-out apologist for coddling the oligarchs. Shoulda’ stuck to crunching his fucking statistics, he doesn’t know shit about economics.

That’s good to hear. I didn’t follow it. But I truly believe that Dem populists should model themselves after the Tea Party… not for a policy vision, but an electoral vision.

I’m a Paulista and know the TP well. Despite comments I’ve seen here about the TP being owned by corporations, I know first-hand how the TP impacted my local race in 2009… and there was NO corporate influence on my local race. I intentionally didn’t seek donations for my local elections… because I’m just as appalled as any Firepups about corporate influence. In a nutshell, I think I shared a vision of good government and that resonated with the local TP. Dem populists can do the same thing across the nation.

If you believe, you can make it happen.

“Kathy Hochul (D-NY) – After beating her opponent like a drum over supporting Medicare cuts, Hochul will vote for the Catfood Commission tasked with — cutting Medicare”

amazing hypocracy and AMAZING, stunning, stupidity…she KNOWS it worked cause it got her elected…she should be the first one “diciplined” by activists just becasue she deserves it most of all for that.

She will no longer be a member of Congress after next year’s election. It don’t take rocket scientist to figure how the Republican is going after her. She deserves to be defeated for being a complete AIRHEAD.

“Nate Silver morphs into full-out apologist for coddling the oligarchs.”

like 3 years ago

cant wait…i relished the look on blanche lincolns face the last month of that election season. i hope shes gone back to the chickens and become a batty neurotic recluse.i hope it keeps her up at night for years. its ALL about vengence with me these days, so YES “progressive” caucus, i DO want to cut my nose off to spite my face.

Nate Silver’s piece in NYT is astoundingly vague in critical areas. Take these grafs, for example:

So Democrats will have very little incentive to vote for the panel’s recommendations unless they include tax increases. Does that mean that Republicans will agree to tax increases? Perhaps the Republicans on the committee will consider them — but it is unlikely that rank-and-file in the House will give their sign-off.

In other words, this probably leads us to a stalemate: Democrats cannot do much better unless there are tax increases, and Republicans will not be eager to raise taxes. So the automatic cuts embodied in the trigger are quite likely to go into effect — and those are the sorts of cuts that Democrats, not Republicans, would prefer to make to the budget.

He completely ignored how the deal solves the whole “emergency” over the debt ceiling, except for this one line: “President Obama got an assurance that the debt ceiling will be raised through the end of his first term (although the increase will take place in stages).” Nate Silver’s flimsy explanation can perhaps be excused because even the Times’s own news coverage could only offer this to explain how the debt ceiling gets raised:

They said the debt limit would be increased by $900 billion in the first installment, subject to a Congressional vote of disapproval that Mr. Obama would be able to veto. To prevent a default, $400 billion would be added immediately.

Does everyone feel the confidence fairies flying out of their butts?

You mean before the 2008 election? I didn’t see him that way during the primaries or the general election in 2008. I was out of action for most of 2009 so I can’t remember what he covered.

Jane, you are keeping me sane with this constant coverage. I am very grateful. If I had to watch/listen to those freaks on the floor of Congress without support from this community at the Lake, I would go berserk.

Just called Barney Frank’s office. Staff said he is now undecided on debt ceiling vote. Just heard on NPR that he talked to a woman on the phone and told her he is leaning no.

Rep Betty McCollum’s staff refused to give a yes or no….so its probably a yes.

Jane, I called Ed Markey’s office. He is “still reviewing” the bill and there was only a little more than an hour to go before the vote, when I called.

I can guarantee you that that worthless duplicitous sell-out of an empty suit will vote for the bill if his vote is needed to pass it, but he’ll vote against if there are enough other votes to put it over the top.

expect anything different.
Almost all these people are super wealthy,you really expect ‘em to care about what happens to the ordinary Americans & the poor…they might pretend that they do with a few words but look at their actions.

For how many yrs did congress gave emselves raises while the minimum wage remained stuck…….And so most of these folks in the DNC caucuses leadership stood by while the poor suffered.

It’s not going to change if people keep voting to re-elect ‘em.

Ha! I bet she didn’t read mine.

She’s got me hoping Bachmann will reconsider on a Senate campaign. At least Michele won’t be foisting the Super Corruption Committee on us.

I emailed Senators Toomey and Casey yesterday and gave them each hell for that super-congress idea.

It is completely unconstitutional!

Where in the Constitution does it say that congress can create a super-congress to give them all cover?

NO WHERE DOES IT SAY SUCH A THING!!!!!