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This recent debt ceiling deal proves the best way for the Republican Party to get what they want from the Democrats and President Obama is to take metaphorical hostages. At this point for the GOP to try negotiating for new laws through the traditional legislative process would be beyond stupid given how effective the tactic of disaster legislating has proven to be, time and time again. The Republican Party should simply refuse to ever deal with Obama unless they have a pending crisis to hold hostage.
This should be easy for the Republican Party because they have several looming issues they can exploit to advance their ends. In September, the country will face a government shutdown unless there is a budget or continuing resolution. That will be at least one hostage situation. Most likely, though, there will be least two or three different bills required to keep the government funded through the 2012 election. Each time, the Republicans will be able to extract major concessions.
In addition, if the debt ceiling deal passes, triggers in the deal will create other artificial crises. While the triggers are meant to scare both parties into reaching an agreement, does anyone doubt that the GOP is much better at playing chicken than Obama? The GOP can easily turn this into another hostage event.
Of course there is also the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. While Obama claims he will veto a plan that extends the tax cuts for the wealthy, there is no reason to believe he will risk letting them expire for everyone since he didn’t last time. The repeat of this fight will likely plan out in a similar.
Finally, this debt ceiling will need to be raised again in only about 16 months. If Obama is still in office, I see no reason the Republicans won’t pull this same game again. In fact, given how well it worked this time the conservative base will demand congressional Republicans do it again. I can’t even begin to imagine what crazy new concession they will demand in this next round.
This is not how I want my country to be run. This process of disaster legislating makes a mockery of both our Constitution and the basic principles of democracy. Yet, given that Obama’s spinelessness has allowed it to be incredibly effective I can hardly blame the Republicans for using it.
Tragically, this will be our future as long as Obama is president. We will lurch from crisis to crisis. Each time, the GOP will use a threat to harm the economy in order to to extract massive concessions from Obama. Each time Obama will say how he had to give in but promises to really fight next time.
Whip the Super Congress: Call and Ask Your Member of Congress if They Like Their Job
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“The Republicans Should Take More Hostages”
In May, Boehner, pushing cut amount must equal amount of increase in debt limit, said “Obama will cave”
He was correct.
“The Republicans Should Take More Hostages”
They will, they will.
yep, Obama folds like a cheap lawn chair
They have the only hostage they need. Obama but then he’s a willing hostage.
We did this discussion in the 60′s re not getting heard by the Democrats
A new party gets no traction unless the media is behind it – as it was for the Tea Party
I love the NPA airing of thoughts – the platform, etc http://newprogs.org/forums/public-forums/draft-platform/final-npa-platform-draft-public-discussion
But I see the only path as to primary Obama – and I do not see that happening because folks believe its purpose would be to keep progressives in the Dem Party (another 60′s discussion).
Eventually some in the 60′s threw their hands into the air and tried violence – but not violence against the conservative rich – just violence against “the system”/the police/National Guard locations/Banks – and that was the worst choice.
The EU left is much more effective, beyond the fact that a parliamentary system works to give power to multiple parties.
We must primary Obama.
Tragically, this will be our future as long as Obama is president.
As much as I think barry is a POS, you can’t blame it all on him. If we had reps that didn’t give in consistently barry wouldn’t be able to anything. We need to get rid of them all.
Who needs a super Congress when we already have a stupor Congress??
Who does Obama work For? or does Jeffrey Immelt work for OBAMA?
Who is Jeffrey Immelt? He is the Head of Barack Obama highly touted “Jobs Council”
“Immelt took over in 2001, GE has shed 34,000 jobs in the U.S., according to its most recent annual filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. But it’s added 25,000 jobs overseas.”
Link Below
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/ge-ceo-jeffrey-immelt-the-head-of-obamas-jobs-council-is-moving-jobs-and-economic-infrastructure-to-china-at-a-blistering-pace
Jeffrey Immelt company pays no USA taxes
Jeffrey Immelt loves Chinese workers more than USA workers
Jeffrey Immelt company also owns part of that so call Liberal news network MSNBC
Ed needs to tell his boss Jeffrey to stop sending USA jobs to China
“Is old ED a comedian, Ed Boss must laugh Ed’s new commercial, about how we need to keep USA Jobs”
Yes! Jeffrey Immelt will probably be at OBAMA birthday party!
Grand Ma use to say, people can tell a lot about you by looking at your friends.
Does anyone still think OBAMA has 1 good bone in his body? Anyone?
The real Devil here is not the Tea Party? Yes! It is OBAMA
The USA has a JOB CRISIS, and OBAMA picks a guy who loves sending Jobs to CHina, to be his Job Point Person.
Obama may be from Kenya, because he hates the USA!
Obama has repeatedly made it clear, publically, in press conferences, that HE WANTS TO CUT “ENTITLEMENTS”. He’s proclaimed this loudly and proudly; it is his re-election strategy. The only “fold” came with not getting any revenues in the agreement…but think how happy this “loss” makes his wealthy contributors. In other words, I don’t think Obama is spineless; I think he has consciously chosen to sell out Main St. for his own personal gain.
Democrats have been talking about the need to “take a page from Karl Roves playbook” for how many years now.
Rahm Emanual says “never let a crisis go to waste” and the Republicans pick it up instantly.
Even if he does fight next time, no one will take him serious and all the hostages will end up dead.
Who does Obama work For?
The reicht wing corporatists.
To Obama, Immelt is a savy businessman. The country needs more of them./s
Reid says the Senate may not have the ability to vote tonight. The House is definitely going to vote tonight. It’s going to by unanimous consent. The Super Congress was Reid’s idea. He just admitted it.
The GOPers confuse the heck out of me. They’ve got a president who will give them everything they want, but since he’s black, democrat, and has a foreign sounding name they’d rather have nothing.
Were I GOP, I wouldn’t even bother with a primary, I’d support Obama. Given another 4 years of him, the only things the government will do are drones, TSA searches, pot busts, and uterine micromanagement.
Boxturtle (Oops! Forgot evesdropping)
I suspect that if all goes well for those with serious power and money–and I see no indication that it won’t–the Super Congress will be the new SOP for dealing with all matters of importance in the future. It seems the “logical” next step. Habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights have been thrown out the window, and the US operates in a state of permanent exception made possible by decades of Fear. In a condition of perpetual crises where the rule of law does not exist, the practical solution is always to defer to “leaders” who, unconstrained by bureaucracy and democracy, will get things done. Why not end the pretense that Congress responds to the will of the people?
Can anyone name an empire that came back from the brink of collapse? I’m not an expert on history, but I think the answer is ‘No.’
We should impeach Obama and every Dem who votes for this.
The ultra centrist view from bloomberg
Kaplan Calls US Debt Plan a “Relatively Small” Deal
Robert Kaplan, professor of management practice at Harvard Business School and author of “What to Ask the Person in the Mirror,” discusses the US debt compromise. http://www.newslook.com/videos/334264-kaplan-calls-us-debt-plan-a-relatively-small-deal?autoplay=true
I’ve been trying to find where Obama has repeatedly made it clear and proclaimed loudly and proudly, publically, in press conferences, that HE WANTS TO CUT “ENTITLEMENTS”.
I can find only the most unspecific references. Are the specifics not being reported, or are there no specifics?
So the Republicans are wringing concessions from Obama? I’m not too sure about that.
Another way of looking at it is that Obama, A DLC Democrat if ever there was one, ends up signing on to what he pretty had a hankering for in the first place.
This certainly seemed true of health care reform. He paid lip service to a public option but that was about it. In my mind, this suggest that he never really wanted it to begin with.
Good thread, Jon. Not only has Obama done wondrous rehab on these assholes, he’s given them a seminar in the possibilities for political
scorched-earth tactics that, in their wildest dreams, none of them could have predicted three years ago.
Barack-Benito Hussan-Mussolini Obama is not the only Folding, stinking negotiater!
I think our entire congress just made themselves hostages! I certainly intend to work like a fiend to rid this country of their leadership. IF I have my way, not a single one will return to DC after 2012 and 2014!
Barrack Hoover Ocavea.
Reluctantly…..Palinesqe. The Quitta is not stupid. She is clever BUT intellectually lazy.
Ocavea? Not as intellectually brilliant as purported by his admirers…..and I..sadly.
Ability to turn a phrase…absolutely.Overblown sense of his own capabilities..absolutely. Lacking in the realization that Bozo the clown could have been elected after Bush.Absolutely
There is a sense that he THINKS he will be viewed as the great compromiser in history.The balm that healed the fuckheads of the right. I think before this is over he will be viewed as the Dem’s Herbert Hoover.
Should read “This recent debt ceiling deal proves the best way for the Republican Party and President Obama to get what they want from the Democrats is to take metaphorical hostages”
Really, would chump barry have been elected if karl didn’t approve ?
More than likely he’ll be remembered as a modern day James Buchanan.
That is exactly my take on where we are heading. At some point the hostage-taking will get to the point where the President will assume ‘emergency power’ not granted in the Constitution, but occasionally used at times of supreme Crisis (as when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus). It will be papered over by some retroactive enabling act, and the Supremes will back it to the hilt. And we will be like the old Romans under Octavian, who preserved the veneer while running a ruthless military dictatorship.
For most people, as long as they keep their heads down and out of harm’s way, things will be pretty much as before. That is how a student of mine described life in Baghdad under Saddam Hussein. The other thing that will make this dictatorship more benevolent than most is that the United States has no racial or imperial policy that involves literally invading other places (we tried that and it failed, and the elite know that it failed). At best, there will be vengeful attacks on the liberals who lost the Vietnam War (the memory dies slowly), but most people will know enough to keep their heads down after the first few thousand are made an example of (like Bradley Manning).
The economy will continue to implode. Since the elite have no policy beyond lining their pockets (for which we should be grateful, since it could be a lot worse, and the tea-lumpens no policy but sticking in to the libruls and the Muslims (some potential problems there, to be sure), it is hard to see how this will all play out in the long run, when an eventual reaction sets in.
Should things go down this route, the best individual action is to get yourself, or at least your children into another country, where they still have a chance at a decent free life.
The Roman Empire had its ups and downs, but I can’t think of an example over the last 500 years or so. China?
If you haven’t already, you may like to read “American Theocracy” by Kevin Phillips. He compares the US to the Spanish, Dutch and British empires.
“Of course there is also the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. While Obama claims he will veto a plan that extends the tax cuts for the wealthy, there is no reason to believe he will risk letting them expire for everyone since he didn’t last time. The repeat of this fight will likely plan out in a similar.”
Unemployment is not going to improve, so Obama already has the hostage scoped out for taking….again. They’ll trade federal unemployment benefits extensions for extension of the tax cuts.
It’s a classic case of Positive reinforcement
you’re missing some key organizational points –
ONLY ‘negotiate’ (DEMAND) AFTER they’ve invested that 1/2 an hour or 1/2 a day it takes to manufacture a crises with 0-puppet !!
sheesh – get your facts straight!
rmm.
probably since roger ailes was calling the shots for Raygun.
rmm
WRONG. Obama connived with them. He used THEM. He wanted cuts. He got cuts. Republican/Democrat is a false binary.
Yes! It’s not Democrats vs. Republicans. It’s Democrats and Republicans vs. the rest of us. When will the left in this country get this through their heads?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/opinion/sunday/tuning-out-the-democrats.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2
Pollster Greenberg is asking the same question we are – What should Democrats do? (I read “liberals” into that also because it is really about getting folks to understand you want government power to help them, and indeed you can be trusted with that power to help them)
“The Democrats have to start detoxifying politics by proposing to severely limit or bar individual and corporate campaign contributions, which would mean a fight with the Supreme Court. They must make the case for public financing of campaigns and force the broadcast and cable networks to provide free time for candidate ads. And they must become the strongest advocates for transparency in campaign donations and in the lobbying of elected officials.
IF they want to win the trust of the public, Democrats should propose taxing lobbyist expenses and excessive chief executive bonuses and put a small fee on the sale of stocks, bonds and other financial instruments. By radically simplifying the tax code to allow only a few deductions, the Democrats would generate new revenue and remove the loopholes that allow special interests to win favorable treatment. The ordinary citizen, according to our surveys and focus groups, feels there is no way to play that game and views simplifying the tax code as an important reform.
To show that government can protect the nation’s interests, Democrats should advocate policies that would control the borders and address problems of undocumented workers…. Britain shows that it is possible for progressives to champion immigration policies that protect the labor market and promote and require integration, beginning with language and schooling…comprehensive immigration reform rather than half measures. They would like to see strong enforcement at the border and in the workplace, and the expulsion of troublesome undocumented immigrants. While favoring toughness, they also want to find ways to put undocumented workers on a path to citizenship.
These measures, if pushed by Democrats, would show that government operated by the right values.”
The above seems reasonable in a center-left way – and We should start by defeating the debt limit bill.
“At some point the hostage-taking will get to the point where the President will assume ‘emergency power’ not granted in the Constitution . . .”
The Patriot Act, the AUMF, torture, ignoring international law, undeclared wars, et al have moved us pretty close to this already. Incremental baby steps. Slow and steady wins the race, so to speak. Don’t grab everything at once. That spooks the marks.
Your analysis sounds reasonable to me. The US today has more of its citizens in prison, both in total numbers and as a percentage of the population, than any other nation on earth. This used to be one of the yardsticks by which we measured the oppressiveness of China and the USSR. And unfunded wars are a typical breaking point for empires once they reach the final, financial stage of their development.
Unfortunately, looking at the trajectory in the US and relevant historical examples, it is likely that the eventual solution will be a crash and burn paradigm shift. It probably won’t happen tomorrow, but it appears to be in the works. Will it take two to three generations to unwind, like the British Empire? I suspect that it will be more rapid, maybe comparable to the Soviet Union. However, it could very well be more violent. Or maybe it will just . . . fade away?
This potential reality may be cause for nihilism, although I don’t think such is warranted. I’m also not a fan of declensionist narratives or Hegelian trajectories. Perhaps the best any of us can do is help each other out and stop being afraid.
If I could talk my wife into it, I would leave the US tomorrow. It has personally proved to be the least free and most boring country I have been in. Barring that, I’ll have to stick it out and try to do what tiny things I can.
“Don’t believe them for a moment
For a second, do not believe, my friend
When you are down, them are not coming
With a helping hand
Of course there is no us and them
But them they do not think the same
It’s them who do not think
They never step on spiritual path
They paint their faces so differently from ours
And if you listen closely
That war it never stops
Be them new Romans
Don’t envy them my friend
Be their lives longer
Their longer lives are spent
Without a love or faithful friend
All those things they have to rent
[snip]
There’ll be no saviors any soon coming down
And anyway illuminations
Never come from the crowned . . .”
–Gogol Bordello “Illumination”
I think we’re approaching “Manifesto” stage.