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Liveblog:
10:13 – Reid: Senate will resume at 12 noon tomorrow. If cloture is not invoked, debate will continue on the Reid amendment.
10:07: Reid – There are negotiations going on right now at the White House. We want to give everyone as much space as possible to reach an agreement, so I am moving the vote until tomorrow at 1pm. The one thing we cannot have is a temporary solution, and I am confident we will not have one. Hey Harry, Texas Hold’em. You say where. What do you say?
10:00: Barbara Boxer “notes the absence of a quorum.” Fake quorum call.
9:56: Chuck Todd: “Some chatter in Senate Reid may decide to delay cloture vote until noon tomorrow to give talks more time for both HIS bill and WH-McConnell.” h/t Ellie
9:54: I believe this is the text of the Reid bill, as voted on by the House today.
9:53: Jeff Sessions still going strong. CNN said Reid would speak at 9:50. Not 9:50 sharp I guess.
9:38: Levin: Harry Reid is sitting in his office waiting for a call from Mitch McConnell. Makes Reid sound like a broken hearted 14 year-old with new braces on day 3 of waiting for her boyfriend to call.
9:29: Levin: Last night McConnell made reference to 60 votes, which mean they intend to filibuster the Reid plan. According to Powwow, however, last night after McConnell offered a cloture vote on the Reid motion, Reid filed “his already-prepared Democratic cloture motion to impose his own supermajority (60-vote) threshold on the Senate (and his deal) instead, including, in Reid’s case, a day’s delay until the cloture motion ‘ripens’ under the rule.”
9:00: Mark Udall: We should all support the wise and pragmatic Bowles-Simpson recommendations — which cut Social Security and Medicare benefits and reduces the deficit on the backs of senior citizens.
8:51: Mark Udall: Nobody here wants the US to default. But in three days, the US is set to default on its debt. Be honest Mark and tell everyone that if Social Security checks don’t go out, it’s because the Treasury is hoarding cash to cover $29 billion to bondholders on August 15.
8:40: Kay Bailey Hutchinson thinks the US is Greece. Just shoot me.
8:07: Next up is “Even Barbara Boxer says” who will soon put the Good Liberal Housekeeping Seal of Approval on Harry Reid’s Super Congress Catfood II bill.
7:58: Bernie Sanders: The Tea Party members of the House have succeeded in reshaping the deficit reduction bills drastically to the right. Put a sock in it Bernie, every Democrat in the House just voted for the Reid Super Congress Catfood Commission II. Wake me up when you find your balls, stop fear mongering over Social Security checks not going out and have the courage to call bullshit on this entire embarrassing charade.
7:51: Mikulski: we’re “days away” from a default. Fifty bucks for the first person of either party who tells America what Wall Street knows: the first risk of “legitimate default” is August 15, and the President told bond holders he will not allow a default on bonds.
7:48: Portman wants an up-or-down-vote on a balanced budget amendment. Drinking game: take a drink every time one side calls for an up-or-down vote when they have no intention of letting the other side have one.
7:35 pm ET: Rob Portman: Markets don’t just want an increase in the debt limit. Markets want a solution to our long-term problems.
Photo by djclear904 under creative commons license
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About FDL Action
off to publix again. decided on which plan i like
Uh, Mr. Portman, how about talking about what the people want and not the markets?
Jane, let’s make it interesting. Instead of giving $50 bucks to the first Senator or House member who says what the bankers and bond traders (and investors) know, let’s offer $100 bucks to the biggest food bank in the state of that Senator (or district of that Congressperson).
Per Jane’s comment on when default occurs. I think it’s not a date; it’s a process; a series of increasingly worse events that have already started happening. The markets and banks are already moving money around; Treasury is already shifting dates for auctions, changing terms from long to short term bonds, etc. One by one, segments of the US obligations will not be paid, but the technical default on US bonds many not happen soon or at all. It’s all the other stuff, where other people are getting screwed, that we have to worry about.
You don’t just pass legislation and summarily enact a “Balanced Budget Amendment.” You have to either
1) pass it by 2/3 vote of each chamber, then have that ratified by 3/4 of state legislatures, or;
2) convene a Constitutional Convention and vote one out there.
Let me hold my breath.
So, this red herring is simply kicking the can off the planet.
Off for a supply run to the store. BBL to catch up on the kapuki. (That’s when watching kabuki results in puking.)
Well, that’s sure the part I’m worrying about. My mother’s SocSec, my future (as soon as October, if I still don’t have ajob) SocSec, Medicare, etc. Soldiers’ pay — did you all hear that soldiers have been emailing the Chairman of JCOS to ask if thy’ll get paid…and that he wrote back, saying he didn’t know?
Love the pic on the post – the pawns look like Daleks to me.
“New and Improved! 11 dimensional chess, now with Daleks!”
Another pet peeve fallacy of mine is this patronizing GOP “households-all-have-to-balance-their-budgets” canard.
Really? What proportion of U.S. households (and businesses) have no — or negative — net worth? Are leveraged out their booties?
We are told that our aggregate $14.3 trillion deficit is about the size of GDP. So, the national household has ~zero “net worth.”
(Not to deny that we have a “cash flow” problem.)
I read the Balkin piece. Now I get it. It’s precisely why I wanted payment prioritization — to make Federal Reserve Primary Dealers last in line — months ago.
Failure to raise the debt ceiling gives Obama an excuse to further widen the gap between rich and poor. Yay!
Can I have three cheers for the end of the middle class?!
Which is why giving them a vote on a BBA is no big deal. They need 2/3rds, and you can’t get that on any legislation. How many years did the ERA float around the states trying to get ratified?
@Scarecrow @3 : yes, exactly, a series of increasingly bad events. Well put.
i have to ask – is Boxer really a liberal still, or is it just the contrast with the DINOs?
I think I’ll pass. I just had dinner and don’t want to lose it.
And they also miss what proportion of households can print their own money and sell bonds when they need more green.
Not to mention the households that can raise taxes on the wealthy when they are running a deficit.
So is this going to be another one of those “rewrite the bill and hold a 1 am. vote on it when exactly nobody has read it” deals?
Lol, Jane gettin snarkier and snarkier with every congresscritter’s comments.
That’s why I come here every day :) That and for my daily dose of sanity.
Bear in mind that that is also a patronizing Obama fallacy.
Tru, dat.
NBC network news at 6:30 ran a clip of Joint Chiefs Chairman Mullen talking to troops in AfPak. The entire clip was Mullen talking. No question from any troop was broadcasted or even paraphrased, but the NBC anchor and one of the reporters acted like one of the troops raised the question. Chuck Todd played it straight, saying he interpreted the facial expressions of the troops as showing deep concern about their families’ welfare.
I would love to see what CNN or other sources published as actual questions from actual uniformed members. I’ll bet there’s a lot worse shit than “when am I gonna get paid?” More like, “when the fuck are you gonna take us out of this shithole? Cuz we aren’t winning any got damm hearts or minds over here anymore.”
So does Reid’s Catfood 2 commission have the “no amendments, must get an up or down vote” provision, or is it just another toothless commission like Catfood 1?
“Markets don’t just want an increase in the debt limit. Markets want a solution to our long-term problems.”
___
Y’see humans exist to serve “markets.”
‘More like, “when the fuck are you gonna take us out of this shithole? Cuz we aren’t winning any got damm hearts or minds over here anymore.”’
___
Yeah. See “Restrepo.”
That talking point is even worse. It’s because households are underwater that the federal government must run a deficit; it can’t escape this accounting identity. Mathematically, private sector is still in the tank, recovering from losing trillions in housing bubble burst; so the government sector cannot avoid raising its spending to offset this, and that’s even more true if we have a trade deficit.
If the government forced itself back to balance — by raising taxes and/or cutting spending in the private sector — it would tank the private sector.
The debate going on now if over how fast to worsen the economy; which competing plan does more to tanks the private sector. So which to choose? The only correct answer is NONE.
Never was but 100% better the di-fi
No amendments, must get an up-or-down vote, fast track in both houses.
Shazbot!
No, no, boomer. Our GDP happens every year. Every year our economy generates an amount of goods, services, wages, salaries, exports, imports, etc. from labor & management & investment, etc. that equals about sixteen trillion dollars. Every year. Our current debt of $14 trillion (or even if it were $16 trillion) is just one year’s worth of our constantly-regenerating GDP.
Instead, to measure our net worth, we compare our debt to our assets. Very rough rule of thumb, balance sheet type of arithmetic.
What are our assets? How much are our assets worth? Several multiples more than $14 trillion.
We are not bankrupt, as in “insolvent” or as in “negative net worth.” We are perhaps “cash-strapped” or “deficient on cash flow,” to use commercial terms.
The Super Duper Party Pooper!!!
DW
Well, you’ve said it better than I did. Thanks.
Thanks. Restrepo is on my list.
We went into the Korengal Valley, suffered dozens of KIA and wounded, declared “victory,” that it had been “worth it,” and pulled out, with everything still pretty much as it was when we went in.
It’s getting hard to listen to this. It’s like amateur dinner theater.
I think it is worth re-mentioning that Obama shot down a ‘clean’ ‘raise the debt limit bill’ because he wanted a ‘grand bargain’ which fit his 2009 statement about ‘addressing entitlements’.
AND that the ‘catfood commission II’ is another of his ‘triumphs’ as his original request for the Congress to have such a commission was shot down and then he went to the Pete Peterson crowd to get it.
What I don’t understand is why the congress critters are so willing to fall on their swords for him. If I was a Dem seeking re-election, I would be putting as much distance between me and him as I possible could.
Exactly. America is enormously wealthy. The problem is how that wealth is concentrated at the top, and how it’s [mis]allocated public vs private. We’re not broke. Democratic Governance is broken.
I just ran across Archie and Edith on TVLandland singing about needing a guy like Herbert Hoover again. Who knew 40 years later they’d get their wish.
“What are our assets? How much are our assets worth?”
___
My wife and I have a pretty decent positive “net worth” (debts to assets).
On paper.
What they would “net” upon aggregate liquidation these days is another matter.
I would be interested with following that scene up.
We have players in the financial sector putting our country at risk, serious risk.
Our military serve to protect the Constitution. Consequently, ending our ME operations could reduce the defense budget and serve to protect the nation financially. Coming home is protection.
Aye….thar be the rub.
we re a monarchy now
HA!
c 2034,,,
oh yay, rah!
Lisa Murkowski has her ‘I’m lookin at you and you’re lookin at me here on C-Span and you’re frustrated that we have a failure of leadership. But we’re all friendly and discuss things and it’s critical we work out the details with all the ideas that people are talking in the halls. It’s so great to be here in the middle of it all I don’t really know how to work it all out but it’ll get done.’
blechh
Some monarchy. They all dress like side show barkers.
the Palace of Versailles and all the attendents have decided to punish the worker bees some more
That’s an optimistic view. I’d settle for lots of monarchies over this. I go to their weddings and sing God save the Queen! I think it’s a kleoptocracy.
What has to be said by one of them in order to take a drink?
Ed Shultz sez,the mens suits are a minimum of 4,000 bux a piece
Mz.Pelosi wears Armani…mucho beucoup bux
Michelle who looks halucious most of the time spends apretty penny on that hideous wardrobe….so be it
Lisa is definitely on the “Perky” List, kspopulist.
(Which is a sub-list of the “Naughty” List … and there ain’t no one on the “Nice” List … Kucinich and Sanders, though, “provisional”, offically have removed themselves. Kucinich will soon be in need of a job and Sanders is the Dems last “line” of defense …)
Ah, well …
DW
I was referring to Wall Street.
I’m much more interested in Mz Pelosi’s jade and black pearl necklaces.
I hope our dear congresscritters remember our men and women in uniform.
Veterans have much to be concerned with. The high unemployment rate of veterans is about to get worse.
It is clear our congress and S & P care nothing for our men and women in uniform, nor seniors, nor children, nor families with special needs children…really they care about no one.
All this talk about foreign markets watching and wondering; yes, they are ALL wondering why increasing revenues is NOT being discussed.
Your first point was more important, that the GOP constantly harangues us that as a nation, we are like a household, so we have to “tighten our belt.” As others pointed out above, Obama even used that idiotic comparison in a nationally-televised statement. It’s just stupid.
And that stupidity is out of control: Mullen said exactly the same thing to the troops in AfPak in the clip I saw tonight on NBC: “we” meaning the entire military and/or the entire Pentagon, “need to tighten our belts.” It’s all pure bullshit.
Shrub ran two wars for ten years on borrowed money. Congress allowed it, although many Dems objected to Shrub’s immoral insistence on cutting taxes in wartime. Shrub’s wars cost about a trillion. Obama has added about half a trillion on war spending in the past two years. All. On. Borrowed. Money.
if i was as tall as,and as rich as MO,i would wear Max Mara
http://www.maxmara.com/img/collezioni/carousel/sm9_ai09_coll-car-med.jpg
alas,im neither
Ah, that explains why I’ve never been elected to Congress. My last suit was $400. And I thought I splurged. That comes to about $100 for each time I’ve worn it.
Kay Bailey Hutchison explains econ too complicated. Pleads to give market assurance against defaul; Forgets her party put it at risk. Thinks US same as Greece, so proposes to put same shackles on US that Grover put on California. Yeah, they’re in great shape.
they do not look real to me,i am aquainted with faux pearls,by the way Brunhilda Bush,and Jackie O wore faux pearl necklaces( old Money) Condis are the real deal,a nice present from her er husband
Was that from the Men’s Wearhouse?
So what is it they’re fighting for now? Whether we get a kitty treat with the catfood? Maybe a toy mouse?
ok. wise and onion dip. hot dogs commin up. who is this guy? cxan’t see his name. still have the captions on
What’s the banker’s joke? e.g.,
If you owe the bank $14,000 and can’t pay, you have a problem.
If you owe the bank $14,000 million and can’t pay, the bank has a problem.
/s
Kay needs to shut up. What a bag full of patronizing crap.
hahahhahhhahaaa
If the US was like Greece, there would be 20 million people rioting in the streets. All we have are millions living in the streets.
As a matter of fact, yes.
Utah’s Sen. Mike Lee says he’s there to represent those who are not represented. Hide your children. He thinks future generations being held hostage by debt. Five straight minutes so far without one second of coherence.
it’s hard for me to listen and i have the captions on.
Stupid question I’m sure: Has anybody in the Senate brought up the cost of the Department of War?
KBH is right in so far that the right will not give up on the Balanced Budget Amendment.
It’s ludicrous, unrealistic, the claims on the left that it’s irresponsible I think are correct.
But the issue for the right will not go away.
It’s a dog whistle, ‘What? Oh yeah,…’ and I think dumb policy, but for argument’s sake, what are our counter-arguments.
Disasters happen
BBA’s only convenient when right wants it.
BBA is worst policy for a double dip recesion-leading economy
???
Well that ain’t entirely true.
The selfish asses care about themselves.
You’ll notice their pensions ain’t on the chopping block.
Pelosi necklace
http://tinyurl.com/3blukzu
off to facebook. maybe one of my kids has something interesting to say
Mike Lee observes that next two years is same amount of time as last two years. First thing he’s said that was true.
Selfish asses fully implied! ;)
I love this: our men & women in uniform could
“Shrub ran two wars for ten years on borrowed money.”
___
Iraq was gonna take 6 months at most, and pay for itself, recall? Shock & Awe, cha-chinnnggg…
Well, it is about … time, Scarecrow.
DW
So there’s a downgrade coming, regardless.
S&P plainly wants to do such, based on their signal that any unpaid statutory obligation (you could read even “furlough” into that) would be the ticket just as would a real default on a credit product. Also, S&P’s $4+ trillion criteria. Connect the dots.
The credit limit, i.e., paying off one credit card with another, is a sideshow. Downgrade will happen with or without. The consequences of downgrade here may be no worse than in Japan.
Mark Udall notes that he’s there “seemingly on a Saturday night.” Nah, you’re not really there, Mark.
i believe 7 or 8 kids were killed on patrol today…in Afghanistan
so sad
FDL corporation for president. KellyCanfieldDenver had it in -part II. The thing is to buy an old enough corporation and change the name. Then make the determination that it was “born” which if you look to your Noah Webster ,born is the PP of bear and then look at that. This could unglue citizens united if looked into the right way. Any thoughts.
Recall all those nifty AAA subprime CDOs? S&P et al are cluelessly FOS.
Well, according to some people ‘markets’ are people too.
Reminds me of an old joke. “Don’t anthropomorphize computers. They hate that.”
Mark Udall wants to make it clear that “raising the debt ceiling is not something I want to do.” How is it possible to be that clueless???
LOL.
same way he can cheerlead for catfood co
paid handsomely to appear totally devoid of a single neuron
Udall says we should adopt $4 trillion in cuts, based on Simpson Bowles. Doesn’t mention that S-B would have worsened unequal distribution of wealth, shifting wealth from poor/middle class to the wealthy.
Worries with S&P that US may be broke, deserve poor rating, becoming like Greece. That statement should be litmus for not being allowed to run for Senate.
see 87
I have a feeling they are real. I remember going to jewellers in San Fran Chinatown–at least in the 60s as a kid with my mother–they knew about Pacific/Asian items. The stuff was not faux.
okay he was BORN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPIT,and has gone downhill
More like an enemy of the state.
i have not gotten right on top of them,but all asian pearls are cultured….so its to what degree
they look like a good pair of faux,a la Saks etc
Increased revenues are not on the table because the Republicans don’t want to offend all the newly-minted Citizens-United authorized corporations and their rich executives. They plan on getting campaign contributions from those guys. The irony is they’re tanking the economy and that will hurt those very same CEOs.
BBA gives up sovereign debt advantage we have over Greece and puts us into the Greek situation of a death spiral of revenue shortfall austerity leading to lower tax revenue doe to lower economic activity from the austerity, then more austerity, rinse, repeat.
Worst economic idea ever.
Screws those that borrow as it makes those that loan richer.
It is a protect the rich act.
come home to what jobs if there is no gov program to help with transition – austerity and all that kills point of coming home as it just spreads austerity misery to the recruits.
well heres a source for the real deal,if one should aspire
http://www.thepearlsource.com/multicolor-gold-south-sea-pearl-necklace.php
im not crazy for the egg sized pearls
It’s not a stupid question at all. We desperately need to see the text of the title of Reid’s bill establishing Catfood Commission II. I can’t tear myself away from watching this train wreck long enough to dig up the bill on Thomas(dot)LOC(dot)Gov, but maybe somebody else can. Or maybe Dday or Jon or Jane posted a link to it somewhere at the Lake and I just missed it.
‘captions’? Jeez, wouldn’t you hate having the job of translating that Republican gobbelty-gook into English? It boggles the mind.
The cheapest corp could buy
Thanks Jane
if i had it in me, i’d make a list of similar quotes for all the idiots in congress — and our president too. maybe they could be shamed into not showing off their ignorance quite so much.
At least she knows it is time for her to get out….guess she will retreat back to Dallas somewhere near the W compound.
okay,im bored
think ill watch a movie
did someone say a train wreck!!!…yup
Doesn’t seem to be too much passion. Or is that just Udall?
Thanks for having the patience to document this kabuki. The editorial comments are worth the read (Lord knows, the pro forma scripted statements are not).
Brian Beutler had copy of the outline of Reid’s “final offer”:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/reid-aims-for-gop-support-by-adopting-mcconnell-debt-limit-plan-fallback-plan.php
true. but do it once and you never have to do it again. they just keep saying the same thing.
from thursday, warrren mosler’s helpful explanation: The danger is from the spending cuts, not the potential downgrade
We must stop austerity — UnCut U.S.A. !
At the same time, we must stop wars and demobilize hundreds of thousand of troops and protect them while we restart the economy.
The one snark from Obama that I liked last year was his retort to Repubs that we can do more than one thing at once — we know how to walk & chew gum.
Obama didn’t say it, but we do know how to demobilize troops & end wars while redeploying workers into productive output to restart the economy. We became the biggest economy on the planet by doing exactly that from 1945 to 1965.
i was bored and found out the yankees game has been on all this ntime and they’re winning 16 to 1. why have i been watching this, again??
AFter 8 hours the dogs are quietly removing all sharp objects in the area.
Super! I clicked that link and will try to wrestle that Scribd into submission.
Also, thanks very much to you and Scarecrow and anybody else having the stomach to actually watch C-SPAN right now. Meant to say that earlier.
Hey Wall Street bought those AAA ratings fair and square.
Ah, the “Hews” List?
The mainstreaming Hews …
“the poor must pay all of their dues …”
“the Federal debt is like the one that belongs to you and you’s…”
“the middle class were prolifigate and now must feel the screws …”
“thank God for the rich, they’re our best effin’ news …”
“doesn’t matter if “the people” are fools, ‘cuz, heneforth we do what WE choose …”
And that, boyz and gurlz is the Screw You Blues … (and all that Jazz).
Just cain’t hep meself, selise.
DW
Are there any additional S & P timeline posts that will make the dogs run?
Austerity measures got a whole lot of rich French in a lot of trouble in the 1800s.
yes!
and also
but how? so your barber might get it? :)
Wow, who are they playing? The Democrats?
I believe this is it:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.2693:
Since they hadn’t voted on the Reid bill in the Senate at the time the House voted on it, I think they substituted it for a Dreier bill that was introduced on the 28th.
The Senators….damn Yankees.
Quote Weber but don’t know how to pronounce his name? Oy Vey.
Scare tactics from Levin now? Oh man. And quoting David Brooks? Bah.
yeah. or maybe more like that early billmon post, the one with just a list of quotes from the bush administration? (if you weren’t reading the blogs in early 2003, you probably won’t know what i’m talking about).
That’s funny…wouldn’t ya know?
lol
like this (thank the FSM for the wayback machine):
http://web.archive.org/web/20041010002323/http://billmon.org/archives/000172.html
That was afore me bloggin daze, selise, I’m late to all this modern internetly communion stuffy.
But I did get more than an earful of debushbulllishment.
;~DW
Udall, you claim you’re a liberal or progressive. But, no REAL liberal or progressive person would vote to diminish Medicare, Soc Security, and Medicaid benefits.
How about mandatory IQ testing for all Senators? No direct consequence. Just a way of shaming out some of these idiots.
With “democrats” like Udall, who needs Republicans?
Cultured pearls aren’t faux, they’re farmed.
Yep, that’s just how I disremember it.
That run-up to the war in Irak do sound more than a wee bit like what we’re hearing right now.
Of course, my ears could be going on me … just like muh fingers don’t listen to muh brain regarding spelling, any more …
And then, me eyeballs is in cahoots with the fingers, so I’m glad the rest of you can still (apparently) figure out most of what I’m trying to say.
DW
Lol. I listened to his whole speech. I thought he was a Republican.
They might care about themselves.
Is this the old “If you can’t convince em, confuse em” ploy ? Cause I’m confused.
Ok, back after a nice long break since 3pm Left Coast Time.
Ugly shit as I wade thru Mz. Hamsher’s continuing live coverage for the three hours I missed . . . gym felt great, got some good food in me, Merlot is sweet . . . can’t believe the fantasy our Senators are fabricating in this mess of catpshat. Oh but if we could respond to their every lie and fabrication . . . we’d burn their fucking ears off.
I just left a SCATHING non cuss word (damned near tho at times) message on my Rep’s DC office phone-Matsui.
Ends with something to the effect this is the most disgusting behavior on the part of Dims in House including her in voting for HR what ever it is (used the number in the message) to creat the super congress as it destroys the last vestige of our constitutions process of elected representation and allows HER to now blame a Super Congress for decimating social services programs and SS which we workers have paid into all our working lives.
I conclude with a resounding: “You’re fired Mz. Matsui, and so are all the OTHER Democrats who voted for killing we the people.”
Felt good!
*G*
Can’t wait to make the same call to Sci Fi and Boxer! Think I’ll wait till Monday, less FDL suggests we call Senators immediately (based on 1am vote later tonite).
Now back to comments and Senate Barf Displays . . . ;-)
well, lawyers are very smart so those ones are exempt.
Steve Brusk CNN:
Reid expected to speak at 9:50pm on the Senate floor.
Yepp, we need the SSAT. The Senate Scholastic Aptitude Test. IQ, history, economics and finance. Just administer it to all candidates and publish the results.
Wow, thanks Jane. What a relief. I’m gettin rusty at my Thomas research, so this is a big time-saver.
BTW, the Scribd over on TPM giving the side-by-side for the Reid & Boehner bills had only the barest bones descriptions of their respective Catfood Commission II mandates. IIRC, the Boehner version was described as requiring the U.S. govt to reduce its deficit to only three percent of GDP. Which would be a gross cut of over a trillion dollars, I guess, but it didn’t say over what time period.
Turns out, the actual text of H.R. 2693 does not explain what Catfood Commission II would do in any more detail than the bare-bones outline posted on TPM. Anybody want me to paste in the whole section?
Not at all obvious to me. Not obvious they would do well on a robust test.
Try faxing a letter. One time we faxed so much we tied up their fax machine for a week.
I suspect that congresscritters don’t really get any information from outside their bubble. So they’re really and truly clueless: all they hear is conservatives whining about deficit/social spending/tax cuts.
I saw tomorrow’s planned talking head lineups at the LA Times. The only liberal listed is Krugman. Everyone else is R, D (Blue Dog), or D (clueless). It’s yet another thing that makes me want a lifetime supply of whatever antidepressant works best for me.
does to me too.
at least the part with big lies used to justify causing misery to lots of innocent people.
Chuck Todd:
Some chatter in Senate Reid may decide to delay cloture vote until noon tomorrow to give talks more time for both HIS bill and WH-McConnell
Here you go, in the House:
Is this huge ammo for us or does it just not matter anymore?
Looks like Super Congress will come due one way or another, regardless of debt ceiling finality . . . n of course, that SCongress means the beginning of the end for SS and our social services programs.
Sure looks to me that Obama wants the Super Congress badly, will do most of anything to get it.
Oh yes, and the CERTAINTY … the KNOWING, FOR SURE!
The “tone” do ring equally false, yet equally, loud and strident.
The Wisdoms promote the Ords of the Lords …
DW
ohhhhh gawwwd! unmuted C-SPAN Radio expecting to hear Reid and got gob-smacked by Jeff Sessions. jeebus
Yeah, House is done with it and I fired Matsui (she don’t know I switched party affiliation a month ago).
I’ve got S. 627, which seems to be the main bill, with amendments by Reid.
S.627
Latest Title: Faster FOIA Act of 2011
Sponsor: Sen Leahy, Patrick J. [VT] (introduced 3/17/2011) Cosponsors (3)
Related Bills: H.RES.375, H.RES.383, H.R.1564
Latest Major Action: 7/29/2011 Passed/agreed to in House. Status: On passage Passed by recorded vote: 218 – 210 (Roll no. 677).
Latest Action: 7/29/2011 Motion by Senator Reid to refer to Senate Committee on the Budget the House message to accompany the bill (S. 627) to report back forthwith with amendment SA 591 made in Senate.
Note: The bill is the House vehicle to raise the debt ceiling, make budget deficit reductions, and require a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.
OMG! Pete Sessions says we should act like Estonia and take their austerity measures.
Way to bring leadership to the senate pete!
No fax capability . . . but phone calls are free for me so . . . they’re all fired anyways. ;-)
I would be quite happy for Pete Sessions to move to Estonia.
Add in basic (like 8th-grade) science. These guys know so little about it that they shouldn’t be voting on bill concerning science and engineering.
eventual result is deflation where assets lose value but cash and loans retain value – those with cash and ability to make loans get more of the nations assets as the current owners go under.
HuffPo has a subheadline up that “Compromise could affect Social Security” but I can’t get it to link to the story. (On a Mac with FF, but my ISP is Slime Warner so who knows what techno-gremlins are at work on this one.)
Anybody got anything further, a working link, summary/excerpt?
Yeah, what happened to Reid? I hate Sessions.
Boxer is back, is this reruns?
????
Archie Bunker suicide scenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkue1ns4XvU
Jane’s cite is from section 302(b)(3) for House consideration. Section 302(c)(3), (c)(4) and (c)(5) control how the Senate will act on Catfood Commission II:
If the true default date is Aug 15th, does that mean this goes on for another 18 days? You gotta be kidding.
to give talks more time for both HIS (Reid’s) bill and WH-McConnell”
LOL – sadly
so now it is in the open and NBC/Chuck Todd is noting that the two sides are the House and Senate Dems against the House and Senate GOP with Obama on the side of the GOP.
So why is he a lock for renomination – and he is – is just that no one wants to be “racist” and deny him a renomination for fear that it would “split” the party and lead to a different GOP right wing president?
Once we move past this fiasco we are into budget negotiations, which will sound the same. The continuing resolution expires at the end of September. Then they’ll be shutting down whatever government is still standing after this neutron bomb of a bill is passed.
Here is the first half of Section 301 which creates Catfood Commission II and sets its goals and reporting deadline. Note that Section 301(b)(2) provides: “The goal of the joint committee shall be to reduce the deficit to 3 percent or less of GDP.”
Wow, that’s honest.
Reid up.
estonia?!?
i used to joke (years ago now) that to address the issue of global warming our political elite would enact a policy of global demand destruction.
i don’t joke about that any more. :(
How to take down a government without firing a shot.
There it is, 1pm senate vote Sunday . . . sigh. Thanks Harry, play some poker now?
Vote moved up to 1pm Sunday, to give the Democrats more time to think up humiliating capitulations.
It looks like republicans are now taking the position that only Congress can decide who will be paid first in the event of a default. How could it ever be okay not to pay social security and medicare first? At present receipts are probably roughly equivalent to outgoing payments. Even if you ignore the fact that excess payments have been made in the past in contemplation of the need for more money, why would it ever be right to use social security and medicare receipts to pay the general debt? I wish the democrats would hammer home the point that the proportion of lower and middle people paying taxes is much higher than those who pay only income tax. But income tax receipts are obviously not enough to cover the amounts being spent. Therefore, social security has been robbed to prop up low tax rates and tax breaks for the wealthy. The tax system is much less progressive than how it’s been portrayed. Why don’t people get angry about this? Because most people are not aware of what’s been done and it isn’t communicated to them by those who should know and care. They are fed BS on a daily basis nobody in power (with a few rare exceptions) does anything to counter the lies and blatant distortion.
Do we call our senators tonite or tomorrow one last time?
Or fire them on Monday?
Well, maybe a 1 pm vote on sunday.
I wanna know what Bernie says about it. If congress has to decide who gets paid, get you popcorn out. That should be fun to watch.
know what? captions not working.
know what? don’t care.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/us/politics/31fiscal.html?_r=1
The deal they were discussing, this person said, resembled the bill that Mr. Boehner won approval for in the House more than it did the one that Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, had proposed. It would raise the debt ceiling by $1 trillion and set up a bipartisan committee that would work to find $1.6 trillion in more cuts, which would take the country past the 2012 election.
Disagreement would set off cuts from entitlements or other areas to be determined. The official acknowledged that while getting the money from additional revenue was a possibility, it remained unlikely.
Officials in both parties said one idea that had surfaced was to require a change in Social Security policy if the deadlock occurred, providing an incentive for the new committee to act on its own.
Under the proposal that the Congressional Budget Office said could save more than $100 billion over 10 years, a different measure of inflation would be used to calculate the annual cost-of-living adjustment in Social Security benefits. Supporters say the alternative measure of inflation is more accurate because it reflects what happens when prices rise; advocates for the elderly say the proposal is a backdoor way of cutting benefits.
Wall Street will not stand for this shit. CNBC will be in melt down Monday morning.
Reid just moved to adjourn til next day 1Pm
Somehow we should use the extra time to get the message to Democratic Congresspersons that they will be held accountable for cuts to SS and Medicare if that’s what happens as a result of the catfood II commission if they vote for the commission.
Doesn’t matter if they vote later to say no, nope. You need to vote no NOW to stop it from being formed, or you OWN the results of it even if you vote against the final recommendations but those final recomendations pass.
3 % of GDP? that’s ludicrous
why not something reasonable like 75%? and some idea to back it off from there for the next 10 years, raise the ceiling and then work on repealing bush era tax cuts and scaling back pentagon budget?
wait, that would be reasonable and leftist, but it would also give the markets some desperately needed certainty
Yes
That was the one the Senate tabled in a hot minute after it came over from the House. “Tabled” means “Killed.”
which part? The not doing their fucking jobs part? Or the making the U.S. Treasury the laughing stock of the whole planet part?
Yes the scrutiny has been too much …
And the people are beginning to say unpleasant things.
Actually the Senate is worn out and wants to get to their poker games and other pursuits … ho hum.
Is anyone really surprised?
Time for backroom deals, secret agreements and other “parliamentarian” moves.
They’ll torture some lnaguage, they’ll huff and they’ll puff …
Just wait ’til you see what they’ve got in mind AFTER this stuff …
It’ll be nose, for the many, to the grindstone ruff …
For the chosen astute, they can’t give them enuff.
Ah well … kspopulist
By the God-fodder, we’ve all just been kissed …
DW
Listening to the commentators on MSNBC it sounds like Obama is getting ready to cave. From what they’re saying there will be two traunches with a trigger that changes how Social Security COLA is calculated. How does Social Security cuts now take center stage? This is a Republican wet dream. So Obama caves on his one line in the sand that the debt ceiling be raised enough to last into 2013.
Does Obama stand for anything except thinking that compromising will get him reelected? His approval rating stands at 40%. What has all this compromising gotten him? It doesn’t look like much.
Republicans love spending they just don’t want it to benefit ordinary people. They have no intention in cutting the defense budget because if that gets cut they can’t start new wars that benefit their defense contractor buddies. This is turning into a nightmare as the democrats don’t have a spine and are too afraid of being blamed for the a default. No way I’m voting for Obama again.
House already passed it tonite, 173 Dims voting for it.
Senate Vote maybe tomorrow at 1pEST, they begin at noon (roll call! lol)
Hey DEMS.
You vote FOR the catfood commission II you OWN whatever results from that commission. Whether or not you vote no on the final recommendations, you vote yes to create it you OWN whatever results from it.
The markets are well protected in the hedge bets they have FOR default. No worries there, Wall St n Bankers are well set . . . cept for those of us with money in the markets still . . .
Guess we can all go to bed!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-deadline-default_n_913809.html#liveblog
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/31/us-usa-debt-senate-idUSTRE76U05B20110731
The Senate will vote on Sunday on the Reid plan to raise the debt ceiling and cut $2.4 trillion from the debt, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced on the Senate floor on Saturday evening.
The vote, previously set to take place at 1 a.m. early Sunday, will now take place at approximately 1 p.m., after the Senate reconvenes around noon. Reid said he was delaying the vote on request of the White House, which asked for more time to negotiate with congressional leaders over a deal to increase the debt limit before Aug. 2.
“There are many elements to be finalized and there’s still a distance to go before an arrangement can be completed,” Reid said. “And I believe we should give everyone as much room as possible to do their work.”
Yeah. I love him!! He’s one of the rare exceptions and I’m sure he’ll have lots of excellent things to say. I just wish even a few others would speak up plainly and clearly to inform people of the truth. It really shouldn’t be too much to ask.
Obama is getting ready to cave” ???
more like Obama working to get Dems to agree to his cave
dham straight
I’ll say this again. This commission and the triggers are just a cover for Democrats to make cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. You watch that commission come out with cuts and the Democrats and Obama say they have to pass and sign it into law because if they don’t the triggers will be so much worse.
Democrats need to look at the results and not listen to all the rhetoric. If any of the big 3 are touched on Obama’s watch, he needs to be evicted from the White House. Remeber how he arm twisted Senate Democrats to kill the public option and then claimed it really wasn’t possible. Remeber how he extended the Bush tax cuts and got little in return. He could have had the debt ceiling raised then, but chose not to. He thinks he can walk all over his base without any consequences.
Sanders has already said he supports Reid/McConnell . . . so all talk Bernie is in favor of Cat 2 and SS cuts . . . he’s no proggy, just another paid shill rich fat cat owned by the corp oligarchs.
Your comment is about as straight and plain to the point as it can be made.
Any one that calls themselves proggy in any manner that don’t get this is not a proggy by any term of the phrase proggy.
Yes, exactly. We are taking names now.
(Tried to post earlier but interToobz are jammed tonite.)
Probably what matters more to Republicans is that they continue to make inroads on the path to ruining any social safety net. Even if the change ends up being relatively small, anything they can get means: they show Obama as weak; Obama inevitably loses the kind of supporters most likely to help get democratic voters to the poll; democratic voters are disheartened and start to believe it doesn’t matter what they do. Add some change to social security to the manner in which they’ve lowered taxes by reducing payroll taxes and they’re making progress toward the double goals of defeating Obama and destroying social security. Why does Obama not see this? Either he really isn’t too smart, or he has no imagination or he doesn’t really care – or some combination of these.
reid sucks. i went out and bought chips and dip for nuthin’.
sorry to nitpick, and I’m having trouble pulling up the actual House vote that happened at mid-day Saturday so I don’t have a link yet, but the bill for which 173 Dems voted was DEFEATED in the House. That was a parallel version of Harry Reid’s Senate bill. We are in opposite world: the House defeated the Senate bill before the Senate ever voted on it.
Here’s the third or fourth best source, story in The Hill confirming that House defeated Harry Reid’s bill, 173-246. Sadly, even The Hill does not give the bill number, but Jane thinks it was H.R. 2693, which she and I were quoting big chunks of above.
House Clerk’s website confirms the bill defeated in the House at about 3:15 this afternoon was H.R. 2693 (roll call no. 682).
This is the formal roll call.
Hey Larue
Not commenting on your reply, just taking advantage of it.
This is kinda generally on the topic of the thread
Don’t know if you’re going to be busy tomorrow or how far away you live from the Carmichael Library but I’m going to be there at 2 for this
I agree as to the effect of Catfood 2 and Social Security chained CPI trigger –
“inroads on the path to ruining any social safety net” means the only issue that could have returned the House to the Dems is now gone, even if the change is only a $100 billion decrease in SS benefit payout over the next 10 years.
but Obama is not stupid, and I am sure he knows he is on the path to destroying Social Security. In his “imagination” he is the Reagan that defeated Hillary and McCain and now has a mandate to do what those two would never have done – attack the aged and sick.
When he told us he agreed with Hillary about not doing any more NAFTA type agreements, and then ran to Canada and told them his talk was just politics and he was pro-Nafta, folks knew what he was – but they ignored it so they could justify pushing Obama over Clinton.
Obama is doing what Obama planned to do from day one (he or his staff – memory as to which fades late at night – even said he wanted to cut SS in the first days of his administration).
Well, I think it’s clear that Obama was never the candidate that his supporters thought he was. For some reason, he was seen through the eyes of wishful thinking, regardless of what he said. Probably the optimistic among us wanted to believe that he made some of statements he made, regarding social security for example, only in order to capture the independent vote. But now it does look a lot like what he really wants is to marry the republicans who, in his words, have left him standing at the altar a couple of times.
I suppose if you look at his background, you can hypothesize that he always felt not quite good enough in social status either at his prep school or expensive colleges and he’s still looking for the approval of those who hold wealth and power in this country – whatever his core beliefs – if any. Interesting in a way, but also pathetic. And it’s appalling that we have to watch him play out his personal psycho-drama while the American dream is circling the toilet.
My understanding is that Rs and Ds are angry about the Obama saying SS checks might not go out. I venture that the priority payment list begins with the fully funded social security fund. Obama started the problem cuz he didn’t wanna upset his boss, Jamie Dimon.
I agree with the idea that all upheaval began when the financial “industry” decided it had to get its hands on whatever bit of extra cash the middle class might have – back when there was some real prosperity. With a relentless advertising and propaganda campaign beginning in the early ’80s they began the brainwashing. You would need millions in order to retire. But no worries. Through the power of magical thinking, you would have millions, even though very little of your money would really be invested in actual production or enterprise. And – of course- anyone who was relying on social security was depicted as insane. No doubt we can expect more of the same now. The only trouble is that not many people these days have a lot left over after they pay the bills so I’m not quite sure exactly what the new game will look like.
Here’s how that portion of what I summarized unfolded on the Senate floor, starting at about 8:00 p.m. last night, from the Congressional Record:
So Harry Reid repeatedly declined Mitch McConnell’s offer to take an immediate supermajority vote last evening (apparently either a vote on the merits, or on the cloture motion – it’s not clear which) on Reid’s Budget Control Act of 2011. Apparently Reid declined because he planned to try to pressure, or extort, Republicans to vote his way at midnight tonight, and so that Reid and the Democrats could try to claim – as they have successfully done so many times before with the help of a gullible media, and as Barbara Boxer and Carl Levin, among others, were busy doing tonight, before the President ordered Harry Reid to tell them to shut up and go home for the night, which Reid of course obligingly did – that the Republicans were “filibustering” because…the Democrats chose to file a supermajority cloture motion, instead of simply lifting the Fake Quorum Call to allow a simple-majority vote to take place on the merits of Reid’s budget deal.
What Harry Reid, with good reason, is counting on – along with perhaps every majority Democratic Senator, and likely every minority Republican Senator – is that the media (and most Americans) will continue to overlook, or to ignore, the fact that the default regular order of the Senate provides for simple-majority passage of legislation. Because Reid and the Democrats, by filing a cloture motion last evening, to invoke an optional rule of procedure, voluntarily substituted a supermajority voting threshold on the Senate in place of its simple-majority default order, just exactly the way that Mitch McConnell was trying to do, as excerpted above (except that McConnell’s supermajority vote would have occurred one day sooner than Reid’s supermajority vote).
P.S. To Fractal @ 98 and beyond – FYI, I’ve excerpted pertinent portions of the Reid Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction (which is charged with reporting by November of this year) in this comment, with the Boehner version excerpted right below it.
I agree – excellent summary of the history to date.
But not to worry – WE HAVE A DEAL!
White House, Republicans Reach Tentative Debt Deal
By Heidi Przybyla – Jul 30, 2011 11:32 PM ET
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-31/senate-postpones-vote-on-reid-debt-limit-plan-as-lawmakers-continue-talks.html
The tentative deal includes spending cuts of $1 trillion and would create a special committee to recommend additional savings of up to $1.8 trillion. The new panel must act before the Thanksgiving congressional recess or government programs including Defense and Medicare would face automatic, across-the- board cuts.
Just to clarify for readers out there, lifting the “Fake Quorum Call” does NOT automatically lead to a simple-majority vote on a bill. The minority still has delaying tactics at it’s disposal, and if the Republicans have proven anything they’ve proven that they will use ANY and ALL means necessary toward their goal.
Just want to clear that up in case of any misunderstanding by some who may read that as if it means lifting the “fake quorum call” automatically results in a simple-majority vote. It does NOT. It DOES mean the Republicans would have to actually filibuster though, IIRC.
11 democrats voted AGAINST the Reid Bill in the house today. Guess there are at least a few good dems left. As to the remainder of the democrats, shame on you turd sucking two-faced sellouts. They get on TV and blow smoke up peoples kesters and then support crap like this that will destroy the big 3. This also goes for any dem in the senate who votes for this crap today. Don’t be kissin’ on obummer ass, he’s already gone in 2012.
So Reid and McConnell knew about this deal while they were play acting on the Senate Floor today. The story says Reid delayed his vote to 1 pm so they would have more time to work on this deal. Typical Obummer BS, give everything and get nothing in return. He is a very sorry excuse for a leader, but I would like to buy a car from him. He would probably agree to make the payments for me.
Don’t you just love a manufactured crisis?
(excerpt from “Budget stalemate gives airlines huge tax bonus, so they increased fares” by John Aravosis, July 30, 2011)
Yeah, I put it wrongly . . My DIM rep voted FOR the Reid bill, which has Super Congress et al, which is why I fired her . . . thanks for the correction . . .
But 173 Dims voted FOR Reid, and the Super Congress.
N that’s bad, n they need to be fahred.
Again, thanks for correction . . . .
John, thanks . . . can’t make it . . but I’d be greatly appreciative if you posted or emailed me what transpires. This is a topic dear to my heart.
It’s one of the horrid steps that enables the shit we are facing, regardless of party affiliation . . .
Give ‘em hell!
Who voted against and WHY?
If some nefarious person or organization or group of people wanted to destroy the Democratic Party, they could hardly do worse than get Obama elected as a purported Democratic president….
There is no longer a Democratic Party — there is only a Dem part of the Corporatist Party. It serves FIRE and the Uberwealthy.
A Udall saying these things?
Were any Democrats from the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party heard from???
Franken?