Is this the party? I’m going to Publix for some tacos and chips and salsa. Seriously. I think these fuckwits will still be here when I get back. Gorgeous day.

What next?

CNN headlines: Obama folds with winning hand. Goes all in witth pair of twos.

That about says it all.

He truly is that clueless, and has equally clueless economics advisers.

Jane, I’m very happy to see this coin-seigniorage option going mainstream. It was even mentioned briefly in the last five minutes of Lou Dobbs on Thursday evening. Unfortunately, I didn’t get the name of the guest who mentioned it.

“Debtmageddon” (Mark Fiore, July 27, 2011)

I can’t prove it but I’m certain that their neckties have been preselected as code signals to Wall Street and such.

Obama, Pelosi and Reid still meeting. Whatever Obama has agreed to give up (probably everything) must be pretty big. The only one with the stones to say no to another Obama cave in, in reality doesn’t have any. That says all you need to know about the state of the Democratic Party.

Damn, Jane, as a true disbelieving cynic I sure do love your snide commentary on the dumb-ass and totally untrue statements made by the kabuki actors.

Might have mentioned this last night… but i was sleepy…. i’m just amazed at this. I remember election night there was some mention of the teabaggers making an issue of the debt limit and the commentators and experts laughed and chuckled. hahahahahahaha. then obaama got all aboard that train. so. here we are and now I’m off to Publix. really really.

As someone who depends on a SS check every month, at this point I say, let Aug 2. come and go and see what happens. Given the intransigence on the Repub side about revenue increases and Obama’s unwillingness to ask for real revenue increases and the abysmal lack of media education of the public to the need for revenue increases -which ,obviously, would come from increase employment- the sooner that the ongoing deterioration of the public trust in the institutions of power reaches a ‘boiling point’, the sooner real change will come.

This truly seems like the same game that was played in bailing out the banks, namely the ‘world will come to an end’ type argument. As Yves Smith wrote, “”The authorities are playing Schrodinger’s banks.”

I wonder how heavy the platinum coin would be if it were made of $3T worth of platinum (around $1775/oz)

It’s just the endless repetition of talking points. Every once in a while someone says something off-script, you wake up for a second, and then you can go back to sleep.

Sorry but too uninformed to know what “Schrodinger’s banks” refers to. Can anyone enlighten? Thanks.

105633 pounds

The coins should be made of Plutonium… that would solve “the problem” once and for all.

As someone who depends on a SS check every month, at this point I say, let Aug 2. come and go and see what happens.

So far as I can tell, there would be absolutely no need to fail to send out SS checks. SS has a separate budget, and the debt to the Trust Fund is already on the books an can therefore be rolled over without affecting the size of the national debt. So the debt limit is irrelevant to SS.

What is Franken doing? trying to trash it?

Scrodinger’s Cat

By law such coins MUST be made of platinum.

heavy, man

Read all about it here.

has such a coin ever been minted in the past?

Here’s Paul on CNN who wants the balanced budget amendment. If they put that in I think I’m moving to Canada.

Did you calculate for the avoirdupois ounce or for the troy ounce (which is used for precious metals)?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/30/default-what-if_n_914012.html

I used my calculator. (sheepish grin)

Coburn’s hand is in his pocket so you can’t see he’s crossing his fingers.

This is truly pathetic:

They [the House Dems] made that plain in their choice of a lawmaker to deliver the Democratic closing argument: newly-elected Rep. Kathy Hochul (D-N.Y.).

[...]

The reason is simple: Hochul won a heavily Republican district last May in western New York by running hard against the Ryan budget — the spending blueprint passed last spring by the House Budget Committee’s chairman, Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), that would slash and privatize Medicare. It would cost Medicare recipients an extra $6,000 a year by 2021 if the measure passed the Senate, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Democrats think Hochul’s campaign is a model for 2012 — and they think the budget-cutting measure passed by the House Friday is an even better foil to run against. They’ve dubbed it the Ryan budget on steroids, estimating that it would cost people $2,500 more per year for Medicare than with Ryan’s plan.

They don’t realize that Obama literally gave away the advantage that got Hochul elected the instant that he proudly announced his bipartisan heroism and put SS and Medicare on the bargaining table. At that moment, Obama jumped the shark and took the Democratic party with him.

If they don’t ALL repeat the same talking points, the MSM may get something wrong and accidentally report an issue of substance. That upsets Obama, Reid and Boehner… and then they have to waste THEIR precious time telling Cenk’s boss to address The Blaspheme.

Our Fearless Corporatists Leaders don’t have time for that. You should be more respectful! Do you need to be reminded of how important and well-groomed they are?!

Sigh! ;-)

Looks like C-SPAN is having record traffic. I dropped my connection momentarily and can’t get the feed back so that means all the seats for watching the Senate are filled and no one’s giving up their spot.

Who is in Charge?

Does Who = Harry Reid
Does Who = John Boehner & the tea party/gop
Does Who = Mitch & the tea party/ gop
Does WHo = Nancy?
Does Who = Harry and OBAMA

or is there another player in DC calling the shots
Does who = the S&P

Everybody wins if OBAMA uses the 14th amendment
GOP senators get out of Tea Party Jail
Dems get out of OBAMA jail
Obama gets to yell congress is broken

who may = the 14th amendment

asian markets fall, Obama uses the 14th Amendment?

A ton of platinum bullion is heavier than a ton of feathers.

Oh, have we become a nation based on the rule of law? I hadn’t seen the memo. Platinum vs Plutonium… they sound almost identical and the spelling is very similar. Couldn’t we bend the law just a little this time… hell, it’s a pretzel already. Maybe they will eat them. I can hope, can’t I? That’s all we have left, you know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

He did indeed jump the shark. But I think he and his economic assholes who advise him believe that a smaller deficit will actually help the economy. You know the old shit about crowding out private investment. So what better to cut than those who are not working? Comon Grandma, get off your ass and go down to Wal Mart.

Take mine… 5,4,3,2,1 Go!

In response to bluedot12 @ 36

You know the old shit about crowding out private investment.

The pressure induced by government borrowing is reflected in the prevailing interest rate, which is very low right now.

DDayen had a news item about the options: “RE “Jack Balkin writesup the option for CNN.” ;The government has not discussed either option publicly. There are three reasons for this. First, there may be other legal obstacles to using these options that we don’t know about. Second, because these devices could be used over and over again, they might scare investors and be politically unacceptable. Third, the president’s political strategy has been to obtain a congressional deal lowering the deficit, and these solutions would take all the pressure off Congress.

There you have the 14th Amendment option and the platinum coin option discussed; I believe it’s #2 as towards why we are being subjected to this manufactured crisis; again, a failure of leadership on Obama’s part coupled with the intention he stated at the beginning of 2009 to undertake changes to the ‘entitlements’.

Purported link to Part ! of debate takes me to profile of Bob Dylan.

?????

Thanks! I’ve got a seat back. :-)

“Sacred Cows” (Pat Oliphant, July 27, 2011)

Happy to help. I don’t give up my email address for that reason, I want to keep the socket open for the FDL petition/donation requests and the follow-up thank-yous.

I know a trick statement when I see one!

It looks like they have money to get through at least the 10th, and likely the 18th. So there would be no reason for Social Security checks NOT to go out — unless they don’t want them to.

My check is due to go out on the 10th and Ron’s on the 24th. Looks like his will be in danger. crap. double crap.

“The avoirdupois ounce is the most commonly used ounce today. It is defined to be one sixteenth of an avoirdupois pound. The avoirdupois pound is defined as 7000 grains; one ounce is therefore equal to 437.5 grains.

“A troy ounce (abbreviated as t oz) is equal to 480 grains.

“Today, the troy ounce is used only to express the mass of precious metals such as gold, platinum, palladium or silver. Bullion coins are the most common products produced and marketed in troy ounces, but precious metal bars also exist in gram and kilogram(kg) sizes. (A kilogram bullion bar contains 32.15074657 troy ounces.)”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ounce

So, is a ton of platinum bullion is heavier than a ton of feathers?

A troy ton of platinum bullion is heavier than an avoirdupois ton of feathers. You probably couldn’t lift it.

Which is easier to explain to the American public, using the 14th Amendment or coin seigniorage? Should Obama choose to take action.

To me, with my near illiteracy about the latter, the 14th seems simpler, more direct, clearly indicated by the situation, etc.

Only thing is, Obama wants that Super Congress of the Twelve Caesars sooooo badly, so very, very badly, so he can outdo St. Ronnie in attacking SocSec/MM…. He just might let the default take place, which I would think would be impeachable, as he would not have done his duty to protect the “full faith and credit of the United States,” and would have put millions of people at risk.

Does he have it in him to take an action which can solely be laid at his feet

Well, if Kafka can call an ape a monkey, Oliphant can call a bull a cow.

Thanks for saying it publicly, Mitch McConnell (in his brief news conference with John Boehner, shortly after the stage-managed Harry Reid news conference this afternoon – where Reid reiterated that only backroom offers to change his deal are permitted, while the public Senate Chamber remains off-limits to actual legislating or amending):

If the President privately agrees to a last-minute deal with Mitch McConnell and John Boehner (with whom the President resumed talking before their mid-afternoon press conference), said Senate Minority Leader McConnell today, “the Democrats will fall in line” in the House and Senate and vote to approve whatever the President decrees.

So the truth emerges: All that the Senate amounts to any more (just like the national commercial media, hungry for those campaign-ad buys) is a stage on which next year’s money-driven presidential election campaign is playing out.

Meanwhile Republican Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts – “moderate,” says the media, because he was one of four Republicans who didn’t sign today’s letter to Reid stating that 43 Republicans will not be voting for the existing Reid deal – has privately told Reid that he’d have Brown’s vote for Reid’s deal if there is an enforcement mechanism to implement Catfood II’s “goal” even if Catfood II can’t come to a simple-majority decision of its own by this November.

The Joint Select Committee seems to be going in only one direction: further away from the established, open, democratic legislative process and machinery of the House and Senate. And further into the back rooms, where the balance of Legislative Branch power (Democratic Senate, Republican House), established by the voters last November, continues to be overthrown in favor of private one-on-one negotiations between the President and the Republican Senate Minority Leader and Republican House Speaker – negotiations which, as icing on the cake, dishonor and override the separation of powers that’s essential to our Constitutional system of government.

shorter powwow: We’re screwed.

Well if they freeze congressional Democrats out of the process, I’ll be damned if I know why they need to renominate this guy. I mean if he wants to hang there in between the parties, let him, just don’t renominate him.

I mean if he can’t stop Republicans from destroying his Presidency we better find someone who can.

“Compromise” wasn’t mentioned in my email to Casey. I did mention I didn’t want to see a “super congress” or attack on entitlements.

They sent me a response telling me they received the email and thanking me.

He didn’t mention that did he?

probably a better choice

Nobody’s SS check is in danger of not going out. Nancy Altman explains why here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-altman/disentangling-social-secu_b_905227.html

Powwow… thank you.

Funny thought I had this morning… wishing I had ten billion dollars to simply saturate the airwaves over the next 16 months with 30 second commercials of your commentary! It’d be a beautiful way to expose The Incumbent Party for what it is. :)

Alas, I don’t have the money… and the media doesn’t care about good government. They care about access and money. :(

House progressives need to join with the Tea Party to defeat this piece of dung.

Best you can hope for is that a deal falls through and Obama uses the 14th amendment to lift the debt ceiling. Funny how Bush’s lawyers could figure out how the President could torture people and Obama’s lawyers can’t figure out how to utilize the Fourteeth amendment to end this farce.

It funny how this whole “crisis” looks like it is being manufactured to give Obama and the Democrats cover to attack Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. The new commission will do the dirty work. I’ll bet the commission will be stacked with conservadems, who’ll figure out how to cut the Big 3 and lower tax rates to lock in the Bush tax cuts. The President will claim he has to sign it or more draconian measures will be “triggered” that will hurt the economy.

from Jane’s liveblog up top

6:01: Here’s the final vote count: 173 Democrats in the House (including Dennis Kucinich) vote for the Reid-Obama Super Congress. Only 11 Democrats vote against, and they’re all ConservaDems: John Barrow (GA), Dan Boren (OK), Bruce Braley (IA), David Loebsack (IA), Jim Matheson (UT), Mike McIntyre (NC), Collin Peterson (MN), Mike Ross (AR), Kurt Schrader (OR), Peter Visclosky (IN) and David Wu (OR).

And McConnell is contradicting what Grijalva said on Olbermann last night.

From “McConnell: Boehner and I are now dealing directly with Obama on debt ceiling”
by Joe Sudbay (DC) on 7/30/2011 05:06:00 PM EDT:

Not sure what kind of game McConnell is playing, but let’s hope he’s not playing the President. The sad part is that it will probably easier for McConnell to get 13 Democrats to vote for his plan than it has been for Reid to get seven GOPers on board with him.

Is Reid now challenging that assessment? Reid just spoke; McConnell up. Reid and McConnell are back and forth.

It’s entirely possible they’ll come to a last-minute deal, but I frankly don’t see why the GOP will give them one before Tuesday.

As it stands, the White House is doubling down and insisting that August 2 is the drop-dead date, and that’s the day the country will go into default. Even though the Treasury said they had money past August 2, Jack Lew came out and said the August 2 deadline was “very real”:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/174007-democrats-see-wiggle-room-on-obamas-aug-2-deadline

If August 2 comes and goes, and the sky doesn’t fall, it’s a huge hit to the credibility of the Democrats.

There would have to be some behind-the-scenes ritual human sacrifice going on for the modern Republican party to give up that opportunity.

Chuck Todd:
McConnell appears to be making the case he’ll deal with WH and not Reid. And from what I gather, WH apparently is playing go between

Jane, you change your mind about primarying Obama?

i find this pretty astounding. i don’t like to characterize what people say.. their words are their words not what I say… but McConnell, the MINORITY leader is saying “I don’t have time for you Harry or this Senate bullshit, I have to go fuck over the President.” And the Prseident is sitting there waiting for it. What the hell is Reid supposed to do knowing Obama is just waiting to undercut him? I’d be plenty pissed if i’M harry.

Just got back from the nursing home. What have I missed?

Jesus God. Hatch. Sound off. Closed captions.

Buncha stuff. But then nothing, really. Things are a mess, as they were before you left. McConnell won’t do anything becausse Obama says he’ll negotiate with McConnell so Harry has absolutely no authority whatever. So whatever is happening in the senate right now and at 1 am doesn’t mean jack, it seems to me.

I just walked in the house as CNN was showing Reid vs McConnell jousting.

I don’t know which of these plans I like best for tonight:
A) salsa and corn chips

B) potato chips andc onion dip

c) cookies and milk

D) yogurt

I lean towards D. Yogurt is the only one i have and I don’t think the senate goings-on are really gonna be so important as long as Obama is negotiating with McConnell. Don’t think it’s worth going out to Publix again to buy new snacks.

anybody an opinion on the competing plans. I’m open to compromise. Maybe sour cream & onion chips and no dip??

I want to puke.

This whole thing is such bullshit. It makes my head spin. I wish I could move to Amsterdam or something. I am ashamed to be an American. The world must be laughing its ass off.

New Hampshire for Hamsher!

Nevada for Hamsher.

mcConnell is blowing off harry because mcconnell is negotiating with the president. wouldn’t be surprised if sooner or later McConnell walks out on Obama and the entire medcia declares Obama a wuss.

Save it for when you’re near Obama.

I need a margarita.

I meant her objections to primarying Obama; I imagine Jane would not like to partake in the ongoing efforts by the Congress to erode public trust in the institutions.

Funny how Bush’s lawyers could figure out how the President could torture people and Obama’s lawyers can’t figure out how to utilize the Fourteeth amendment to end this farce.

It’s Obama farce. He doesn’t want it to end. He thinks he’s winning: Looking presidential and reforming entitlements. All in one swell foop!

I understand the Senate Leadership is snacking on
cow chips right now. Oh… wait… this just in… Harry & Mitch are not currently munching them. Apparently, they are already full of them!

Always stay at least one rent payment ahead. Cut a cashiers check…might take a while to get there but insurance for the risk. Homelessness is a very bad deal right now as there is competition for the good bushes.

sorry response Vegas @ 75…

I’m actually from CT… just enjoy the play on words…

I talked to people on the Hill who have been briefed who say they have money through the 18th. FWIW

by all means. i just don’t think this sis going to be such a good show. it’s a let down for me. but hey. it’s a party so screw them gasbags. i’m hangin’ with the pups.

I’m an R. But I’m happy to vote for the few good government types that ever run in either party. I was disappointed to see Russ lose last year because he’s one of the few Senators who ever defends the rule of law.

I’d vote for Jane.

Disappointing to see Kucinich roll. I wonder why? Nancy ain’t gonna making him one of her three Caesars…

Because he couldn’t figure out what to do with the A-K-Q-J he started out with?

It just seems like the same-old same-old. When I hear ideas that seem like they could catch on and ignite the fire of public imagination, I can feel it. The spidy sense goes off. I’m sorry to disappoint everyone but that just seems tired and doomed to failure, like playing with loaded dice and hoping that this time you can win. The very thought of it bores me. The only thing that bores me more are the people whose names have been floated to do it. How many of them are out there right now calling bullshit on both parties over this ridiculous theater? Zero. The idea of putting 5 minutes of energy into any of them makes me want to take a nap.

It isn’t out of fear, or loyalty to the Democratic Party, or Obama, or anything else. I just think it sounds like a shopworn and very ordinary solution to a problem that demands extraordinary vision.

FWIW?? I think IW alot. Calls alot of people’s credibility into question, as you said earlier. and that could be important IF people find out. I assume everybody yapping on the floors of the respective houses knows this. and S&P and moody’s. but they’ll all play along with the 8/2 deadline as will the media. Obama needs a date certain to cave. thanks god. give him another 2 weeks and there’ll be no more minimum wage and…. what else can he give away in 2 weeks?

I wonder what happens when all the people who voted for the tea-party idjits don’t get their SS checks because their congresscritters are batshit insane and won’t vote for either increased taxes on the rich and corporations, or an increased debt limit.

Kucinich didn’t want to take another airplane ride with Obama?

Why else would Dennis menace us?

He figures he’ll soon need another job, looking forward, perhaps?

That “Nice” List, of Dems we can trust is growing shorter …

DW

And they are still putting us through this? I heard on CNN that soldiers are asking Mullen if they will get paid and he says he doesn’t know.

No, people have to run the programs that do that. It doesn’t happen by itself. And the people who do that aren’t considered to be critical employees by the guys who run things.
Also don’t forget all the local offices that will end up closed….

Some of us don’t get SS checks on the 3rd of the month–recently enrolled SS recipients get paid at various times in the month according to birthdate–my pay date is 3rd Wednesday of the month, so I’m probably screwed. Hope my mother will get her SS on the 3rd.

yeah. there’s nobody to do it. and on a related note…. I sign apetition for bernie and i’m getting sick of his e-mails now. is his function to keep the progressives in the fold? is he like obama’s ambassador to the Progressivian Republic?

I keep thinking of Mitch’s statement that when the two parties come together, all incumbents are reelected. But considering the anger level in the country, I think primaries could change that assumption.

So I’m thinking that the Super Duper will have two goals:

1) be done as quickly as possible, providing pols as much time as possible to rehab before November 2012; and

2) be done as slowly as possible, offering as little time as possible for primary challengers.

Anybody wanna offer an over / under for the Super Duper’s conclusion? I’m guessing most primaries will be done by June. So the Super will be done around May… not really leaving enough time for primary challengers to make something happen. In the meantime, everyone remains silent on the Super’s discussions… intending to continue talking out both sides of their mouths.

And by “conclusion” I mean the conclusion of their initial authority. The Super will probably be made permanent soon enough… although CongressCritters will probably still be allowed to introduce resolutions on important stuff like “National XYZ Day.”

Okay, the inclusion of Sanders on the “Nice” List, even though he’s not a Dem, is over.

There is now, officially, NO ONE … on the “Nice” List…

The “Naughty” List is full up.

DW

Joining together to impeach the Prez might be a good deal, too, even if it isn’t for the same reasons.

I delete all those e-mails and toss the letters. They only want my money, so they can go join the junk mail.

…How many of them are out there right now calling bullshit on both parties over this ridiculous theater?…

Nailed it.

Common sense doesn’t matter any more–you of all people must know that. If the PTB deem it necessary that the elderly and disabled be deprived in order to reach a desired goal, you gotta know that’s what’s going to happen.

The president’s tights and cape persona: Swell Foop Man.

Well, jobs are hard to come by!

Hadn’t thought about that one… so obvious too.

so much more fun watching commons or the irish parliament on c-span as opposed to this scripted speechifying they call “debate”.

Yay!!!! President Biden!!!!!

So what is Sarah saying about all this?

Just a ‘something’ that I found interesting: “They all noted that their mail was running 100 to 1 against cutting Medicare. Every one of them. They know that they cannot close the deficit gap just with the elimination of the Bush tax cuts. And I think I convinced any who weren’t already, that not getting the deficit under control means Depression 2.0 and a disaster.”

Who are the ‘they’ referenced? “Two Democrats, six Republicans, and an independent (Lieberman). Jon Kyl was there, as well as Gang of Six member, Tom Coburn from Oklahoma. Also Corker, Lugar, Coats, Portman, and Mike Lee, the “Tea Party” senator from Utah, who took the most notes.” (the author who wrote this ‘forgot’ the names of the two Dem’s in attendance at his dog and pony show)

It’s based on the academic system for reckoning, like the 50-minute hour. There are deadlines and there are rigor mortis lines. Obama doesn’t want to get an Incomplete grade. The XIVth Amendment and coin-minting options he sees as taking a WP (Withdrawal Passing) grade.

Of course they know.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/07/27/idINIndia-58473020110727

“The first risk of a legitimate default is Aug. 15,” said Ward McCarthy, chief financial economist and managing director at Jefferies & Co. “Cash is not going to be an immediate problem. The debt ceiling space is not going to be an immediate problem.”

What is Mitt saying? Oh I forgot… he decided to take a nap this week…

is his function to keep the progressives in the fold?

Yes. They wheel him out whenever they need to beat back liberal opposition. We wind with a chorus of that old chestnut: Ezra Klein, Matt Yglesias and all the other neoliberals singing “Even Bernie Sanders says…”

I said a loooooonnnnnnnggggg time ago that Obama was a Republican.

What does McConnell wanting to negotiate directly with the President rather than any Democrat in the Senate tell you????

Shocked? Don’t be.Right now, “Ocava” is selling out Congressional Dems.

The only thing that bores me more are the people whose names have been floated to do it. How many of them are out there right now calling bullshit on both parties over this ridiculous theater?

people have been calling bullshit. it’s just that automatically disqualifies their names from being floated.

Simply, that Obama’s “their” … um … man?

Whocouldamagine?

DW

Outside the mainstream?

Ya don’t “float”!

DW

Dawned on anyone else that this is a great example of why other nations nationalize corporations?

don’t get that, selise? who is calling bullshit? why does that disqualify them? I think calling bullshit would endear him/her to the people who want to see Obama primaried (and i am not among them). wouldn’t it.

Sacrilege!!!

(Ubethca … “they” are watchin’ you.)

DW

I think we ought to form a Corporation and run it for President.

Maybe it would be responsive to us shareholders…

But–but– amtrak looses money. can’t do it in the USA.

I didn’t say nobody has been calling bullshit. I said that nobody whose name has been floated as a primary challenger has done it.

LOL!!

Well, the SCOTUS says corporations are people so…..

Instead of forming one though we may have to takeover one that has been in existance at least 35 years????

She is talking about economists.

Those who ain’t listened to.

‘Cuz they are saying things like, “The National ‘debt’ is NOT like yer household debt”, that kinda stuff, BL.

DW

at this point in time, with the economy — global and national — in the fragile state it’s in, i have no intention of supporting any politician who doesn’t have a very good grasp of basic progressive economics. better yet, someone with an actual vision for what is possible and how it might be accomplished (institutionally, policy, etc).

Well that is participating in what is, isn’t it, Kelly?

Ya think any “rebuilding” might turn out to be necessary?

Just wondering.

;~DW

i have a feeling they knew the bill would fail so they were trying to show a “united” front.

I just wonder who they are all playing to? The AmPeep caught onto the kabuki ages ago. I havent turned on cable news in a week just because I cant stand to hear any more about this charade and who is scoring some kind of “points”

Pesky details. Do what any of them do; go to Delware and get ‘em to fix the papers!

That would be a BINGO!!!

Keep on keepin’ on, selise!!!

DW

that is what i understood you to say. i was just attempting to make the point that those who call bullshit are not endearing themselves to tptb. that is all.

Great, just what we need.

Another birth certificate controversy…. LOL!

anybody gonna adress what harkin is saying? dem or R. doubt it.

gotcha. thought she meant politicians. thanks for clearin’ that up.

ok.

it seems to me that as soon as anyone gets serious about talking primary challenge, all of a sudden name recognition and VSP qualifications magically appear.

but then, i haven’t been paying close attention, so maybe i have that all wrong? is that what you are saying (i’m not going to disagree if you are).

Well politicians with a grasp of economics, that ain’t neoliberal.

The confusion of the moan ment.

;~DW

pretty short list…. to make it even shorter, add a further qualification: either experience working on the hill, or who has at least run for office.

as far as i know, that gives me three: james galbraith, warren mosler and stephanie kelton.

right: politicians with a grasp of economics, that ain’t neoliberal. alternatively economists, that ain’t neoliberal, with a grasp of the politics.

Looks like pretty good company, selise.

I figure that the rest of us have four …

DW

um…. jeez, there are so many comments… i forget what we both said. well, i think we’re both intelligent enough that neither of us said anything worth fighting over. i’ll just figure we’re both right and move on.

Now THAT is a great idea !! *G*

is part III of this party coming up soon?? neither here nor there, really. just wonderin’

no fighting here. just chatting… ((BFL))

yes

I agree with that.

Harry has an f in caucus of 53. If he had an balls he’d tell McConnell to deal with him or risk whatever deal he and the Pres make being filibustered.

Harry’s too stupid to do that though.
Just like Pelosi was too dumb to contradict the President when she held power.

They both must like being in the minority.

Obama jumped the shark jumped into the mouth of the shark and took the Democratic party with him.

Fixed it for ya.

Ummm, gee, I took the day off from the computer…what the heck is this about a platinum coin? I saw a couple jokes about a trillion dollar coin on twitter…but obviously I’m way behind alredy.

Can someone point me to an explanatory link? (how any kind of coin could possibly help is way beyond me..)

It’s my understanding that SS has it own revenue stream from which it covers its expenditures, including local offices, and that whenever revenue is insufficient, Trust Fund bonds can be cached to cover the shortfall. And, that’s how I understood Nancy Altman. Do you have a reference that contradicts that?

((back, selise))

And, what happens if the do get their August checks contrary to Barry’s warniings?

6:16: Schumer, acting as President of the Senate, has to interrupt Orrin Hatch twice to ask people to take their conversations to the cloak room

Why? Did Hatch accidentally conduct Senate deliberations within hearing distance of a commoner?

Only if we were institutional investors…

i don’t think harry’s in a position to tell McConnell anything if McConnell can just run back to Obama and get something different–and better for him. Seems to me Obama has cut Harry’s legs out from under him by talking with McConnell. I mean, I don’t know. At this point, I really don’t know WTF is going on. I’m 52 years old and come from a family where we were expected to read and know what was going on. I remember watching the 68 conventions and staying up way past my bedtime to watch “Come Home America” in 72. and this is one of the most preposterous thing I’ve ever seen in politics. right up there with the clinton trial.

One bullshit caller who’s been suggested is Robert Reisch.

Part III is now here:

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/30/senate-debt-ceiling-watch-party-part-iii/

See you there.

great day for a party (misery loves company)… i’m on my way…

I’ve suggested Robert Reisch. I have differences with him on the importance of manufacturing etc., but he has been calling bullshit and he seems to be working for us.

Elizabeth Warren understands econ, is a law professor, and has recently worked in the administration. What’s not to like?

that is correct.

but Obama has tried to define SS checks as just another expense that he controls. If he tried to stop the checks the 1935 Supreme Court decision would slap him down – but a lot of folks live check to check and any delay would hurt

Jane used the word “floated”, not “suggested”. By that, I assumed she meant a name trial-ballooned by an organization with political resources.

Strictly my interpretation mind you, and of course Jane is free to correct me if my interpretation is incorrect.

Maybe in 20 years FDL’s governing board will push for a new and improved form of government and system of governance. The US Constitution doesn’t work (and probably isn’t the sort of supreme law of the land we’re led to believe it is). Laws are coercive, their lawfully empowered officers employ them capriciously or ignore them.

The FDL corporation for president. Do buyout an old corporation and change the name. I say lets give it a go. Now we need to determine are corporations born?

Same old- same old is what you get when there is no version of 2008 Obama around to take down the same old – same old.

I tend to prefer those who I know a bit about to those that turn up the spidy sense tingle.

But there is no name, even one with minimal name/face recognition, that is coming forward. A pretty face could replace the “name recognition” need very fast, but I only see Elizabeth Warren in that category. We lack pretty face relatively thin males these days in the Democratic Party (someone similar to Gov Perry or Gov Romney). Hillary is tough as nails and can handle the nonsense the GOP, or the never happy left, throw at her, but she is not doing another 2008 after the way PTB stopped a simple counting of her votes at the convention.

So I am back to there is no name that the Democrats would rally behind and risk being called racist for doing so. Obama played the left very well in 08 and the vast majority of the left is not about to admit that fact – so a primary is not going to happen.

Maybe we could run Warren for Senator in Mass against Brown?

Not only, but also: polled FDL members overwhelmingly agreed that for 2012, FDL’s energies and resources are best devoted to issues and policies, not to supporting personalities and candidates except in passing.

McConnell can’t get a darn thing through the Senate without Harry. Them’s the facts.