Excellent point.

Can we just go back to square one (Mr. Reid, are you listening?) and make a statement that nobody should be negotiating anything with a time line on lifting the debt ceiling drawing dramatically near. That’s like the example of torture being okay to save someone about to die – totally ’24′ scenario. And this scenario should have been shown for what it is right at the beginning when it was floated by…oh yes, by our CinC with dreams of a Grand Bargain.

… nobody should be negotiating anything with a time line on lifting the debt ceiling drawing dramatically near.

I think that ship may have sailed :-)

Logical – but negotiation by Obama has never followed logic.

indeed talk radio on the left – and right – is not too logical these days

Seems the right thinks Teachers are responsibl­e for the Banks robbing us blind, Fireman are responsibl­e for our defense spending doubling since 2000, Police offerers caused Health care costs to double since 2000, and Grandma demanded the Bush tax cuts, while the left says Hillary Clinton would have done worse and Bill Clinton’s proposal to add benefits to Social Security in a voluntary payroll deduction tax deductible savings was just a cover for a plan to cover his desire to cut Social Security, because Newt, and Counterpunch, says so. And any that say otherwise are racist.

The O-bots are out in force selling Obama and his re-election, and the right is into everybody knows deficit reduction must happen and include “entitlements”.

I’m back to listening to NPR classical music.

If someone threatened to throw Obama over a cliff, he would say “you don’t have to do that. I’ll jump and save you the trouble.” The big problem is that he is taking us along for the ride.

so-called progressive dems argue for increased taxes and so-called conservative republicans call for spending cuts.

while the country needs tax cuts and spending increases.

Since the Enabler is such an acolyte of Raygun perhaps he would listen to one of his advisors.

“Negotiations are a euphemism for capitulation if the shadow of power is not cast across the bargaining table.”- George P. Shultz

But when you are forced to say things like: , “I’m the President of the United States; my words carry weight.”

The shadow of power has receded into a tiny corner under neath the table.

is it possible that obama (and even the cpc) actually believe this austerity nonsense?

I think the only deal the Republicans will accept at this point is one where Obama and the entire Democratic congressional conference sign a pledge to immediately resign en masse and also agree to only put forth Republican, or better yet no, replacements for all the vacant positions.

Of course with the Republican party now effectively controlling the so-called Democratic party this really would be a meaningless and redundant demand…

Are you telling me the Senate Democrats can’t get a similiar sized deal to protect SS if they really want it? Are all Democrats useless?

0 does he came from the school of uncle milton freidman, just like his $$$$ people and ws. Main Street be damm

Obummer is so full of himself he has forgotten who put him there and who can remove him. His repub buddies can’t save him with the D in front of his name. If he wants to stand a chance with them he should just put that R in front of his name and be honest for once. Evidently the Dems in DC also are beginning to suffer from forgetfulness and can suffer the same fate as Obummer. 2012 is going to be a war, but this war will be between politicians and the people.

I thought it was worth a try, given that Harry was about to make a statement. Unfortunately all he did was extract social programs and make an opening statement about the military that should have been followed by – “with this huge problem I suggest we table all conversation on this subject until after the debt ceiling is raised.” Then we could all sleep at night without having to hatch plans about sleeping under bridges and heading for California for the winter.

I don’t think that ship has sailed. Not until they cast off that final hawser. (Not a boatie; hope the reference fits.)

It’s painful to watch.

Could you imagine Reagan, Clinton, Nixon or LBJ acting like this when they had legislation they wanted passed?

Tell me again why we need tax cuts?

That’s a solution I hadn’t thought of, wsmoke. It might be more palatable to CinC (though I wouldn’t favor it) than my previous suggestion that he simply step down and thereby allow new candidates to be considered. By declaring himself a Republican (and encouraging his supporters in the Senate and the House to do the same) at least we would know where we stand and more openings could occur when it comes to election time. In fact, come to think of it, maybe there could be a national poll to determine who in government is or isn’t one of the two parties bone fide, and they would be forced then to shift over one way or t’other when running for office next time.

Or we could just vote for new progressives wheresoever they show themselves.

yes !

the man is beyond enthralled with what he perceives to be “the establishment”
and this is what they think, so why the hell not

because we need increased deficit spending.

that means tax cuts and/or spending increases.

disclaimers:

1. doesn’t mean i think all tax cuts or spending increases are good — tax cuts to the wealthy and spending increases to the banksters aren’t on my table.

2. necessary but not sufficient. we need a lot more than deficit spending…. (major restructure of banking including investigations and fraud charges were appropriate, …..)

Saw again in Business Week the really strange idea that not raising the debt limit is akin to saying you are not going to pay it. Shame on them.

Why buy the cow when you are getting the milk for free?

selise can you explain why we need deficit spending? Just so everyone is on the same page…

Excellent! Soon we will be living in Gult’s Gulch living the good life sipping ice-cold, tax-free Lemonade Grape Kool-Aid.

Obama Shrugged!

I think it finally dawned on Obama that he was facing a re-election battle with very high unemployment. He had to find a way to neutralize the issue with the voters. If the election came down to whether or not he had restored the economy, he could very well lose.

The deficit/debt battle was one he thought he could “win” — or at least not concede the issue to the Republicans — by delivering the “Grand Bargain” or appearing to be “the adult.” Once the deal was cut, he could pivot quickly to jobs, move Geithner out, and bullshit Americans that he really cared about them.

That’s why he was so clearly pissed about Boehner’s defection. And why he is so postal about a short term increase in the debt ceiling.

He doesn’t give a shit about whether austerity is the right policy. This is all about HIS survival.

They seem to believe but then, Obama is a really good actor. I don’t understand anything about them at all.

I have never in my 63 years of life seen a President and his advisers so gutless, clueless, feckless, and plain fuck-witted as the ones currently in the White House.

They took a once in a century opportunity and completely slammed their peckers in the car door. Inept doesn’t begin to describe it. They could have utterly and literally wiped the GOP off the face of the earth while they transformed this country. But they utterly and epically botched it at every turn. The tragic part is, it was so unnecessary. They had the majorities, the mandate, and the people behind them, but whiffed.

If I were Obama, I’d be much more interested in fixing the fucking problem than getting reelected. All the things I would *actually do* as president… I wouldn’t need no stinkin’ second term.

Anyway, fixing the problem is what will lead to a second term, if he indeed wants one.

One reason is to prop up the states budgets. States, counties and cities have lost tons of revenue from the decrease in property values and sales taxes. Job losses have reduced sales taxes as people cut back on their spending, unsure of their job security. Spending on infrastructure would alleviate some of that deficit.

I’m 70 and couldn’t agree more.

If only Teddy Kennedy was still with us. He’d be railing from the Senate about the injustice of this whole shit sandwich.

USG deficits: The Economics, the Politics, the Banksters and You.

There is NOTHING as important to Obama as his re-election.

What a sexy name you have – I like it. I’m in my 70s, too, and I wish for someone like Teddy every day. Haven’t seen you before so welcome to the Lake.

Yeah, I’m totally with you on that. I just want to be clear about why *deficit* spending is necessary.

Obama came to this battle and all battles without any experience, without loyalty credits to cash in on, without any friends anywhere. He’s helpless, and frankly I feel sorry for the guy. It’s half that he tries to please everyone and half that everyone knows they can use him.

Thank you, ma’am.

I really don’t feel sorry for him. He has operated almost completely behind closed doors and the American public know nothing about what he is doing. I could forgive him if he had just TRIED to make things work but he hasn’t and won’t. He’s a sellout and I wouldn’t vote for him again.

“THEY” did not whiff, they are doing exactly what they intended to do, this is NOT failure by THEIR lights, it is success, and its only small difficulty is to find SOME way to cram this “success” down the throats of “the people”, that the wealthy and powerful may continue to reward Obama Inc.

Do you imagine, tremoluxman, that Obama or ANY of the Dems will suffer? Even if tossed out of office, their futures are assured … just think BIll Clinton, and you’ve seen the future Obama desperately wants.

Legacy Class … all they way … “looking forward”.

It isn’t merely(?!) the “economy” it is torture unpunished and daily drone attacks, the destruction of the rule of law and the connivance with money.

Remember the Gulf “spill” and Bee Pee, which corporation supplies most of the fuel used in “our” endless(!!???) wars, those we know of and those we don’t.

DW

From your link:

While it is commonly believed that continual budget deficits will bankrupt the nation, in reality, those budget deficits are the only way that our private sector can save and accumulate net financial wealth.

That’s what I was looking for. Government deficits are not necessarily evil.

Cenk nails it

Republican Senator Tom Coburn claimed that President Obama’s veto threat is weak and that in the end he’ll sign just about anything the GOP sends to his desk, no matter how unpopular with the American people. Cenk Uygur breaks it down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tttH1dJQ–0

Someone whispered into his vainglorious ears that only he could stop a Hillary nomination and victory. He must have been promised the sort of support and attention he quickly got. Someone really really wanted to prevent a Hillary victory. Party affiliation or loyalty does not mean shit. Valerie and Joe were loyal Republicans until their loyalty wasn’t repaid, so they became Democrats. Nu?

Showing your corporate donors that you can shred the social safety net faster than Republicans while shifting the blame in the eyes of a hapless middle class to those Republicans – priceless.

What appears to be unbelievable incompetence should, in fact, not be believed. Obama and leading Democrats are competently negotiating for their own political empowerment at the expense of working class citizens.

The debt ceiling negotiation is a negotiation by Democrats and Republicans (and their corporate sponsors) against an unrepresented middle class. So of course we will lose and the corporations will win.

What’s in doubt is which party will win the most power by getting the most credit (i.e. donations) from corporations for helping them win and shifting the most blame (i.e. lost votes) for helping middle class voters lose.

Obama, Democrats and Republicans are not worried about challenges from the left. They know that there is no left left.

In fact, there is no left or right anymore; it exists now only as manipulative Kabuki theatre. All that remains is above and below. There are rich people above us, and they are crushing us.

Shaking these rich golden monkeys from our backs, and protecting our law-governed participatory democracy from their assaults, is not a left or right issue – it’s a survival issue.

Superb, accurate, and brilliantly honest comment, Seminole Sky.

Always appreciate your perspective, wisdom, and capacity with words.

DW

you got it, that’s right!!!

Thanks DW. I see that you expressed the same sentiments 25 minutes before me.

Its a Good dam thing Obama was not Lincoln because Harry Reid is beginning to act like General George B. McClellan during the start of The Civil War. Yes Sir Boss , or Yes Sir Master would be the saying of me an allot of other Black People today.

Twain, I’m far from sexy, but I do have gray hair! Hence, the silver. Siren, I’m not.

As for the Lake, I come here every day. Thanks for the welcome!