Great post, Brian, and great action. If it doesn’t happen with young people or in a swing state, it doesn’t exist for the DNC/Democratic Party/White House for 2012. And that’s all they think about these days.

OT: Did someone deliberately tweak that picture to make the Pres. look goofy? I know the office is really tough on anyone…but usually not in such a nutty way. Maybe it’s just the cat that ate the canary look that is so hard to accept…..

Haha nope, that is a real picture.

Nobody tweaked the photo.

The picture captured Obama just when he was thinking of how much his investment in “Friskies” will be worth by 2014…

and I just threw another $10 into the pot…

The simple fact is the bill will carry Obama’s signature. Obama will sign it into law with much pride and fanfare (and the Church of Obama will hail it as another “historic” accomplishment worthy of Mt. Rushmore).

thanks so much stevo!

Without an alternative(does anyone believe g o p wouldn’t also cut ) how do these ads help?

Strange that Democrats will not clarify exactly what they are planning with Medicare/aid & Social Security. No matter how often one cuts Medicare, the problem will always return because of the unregulated rise of health care costs. Additionally, social security presents no problem for nearly 40 years!!! What’s the urgency to address such a possible long term event now?

We all know the Drivers of the Deficit — tax cuts for the wealthy and military spending, the latter quadrupling because of so many undeclared wars in Libya, Somalia, Yemen etc. But again, our elected officials seem to want to subsidize these two things by making the elderly work longer (although refuse to protect them with regard to age discrimination).

Of course, African Americans will also be devastated by any cuts in these programs given the fact that they earn so much less than whites over a lifetime, thus depend on SS/Medicare to take up the slack. With at least 20% of African Americans unemployed, these cuts would be practically genocidal, I’m sorry to say.

I will send you a check today for this campaign, disliking the practice of financing online.

Hi Jane, I just called Senator McCaskill’s office and left a message that if she votes to cut any benefits in any way she would not get my vote and I would make sure I spread it around that she is for cuts. I asked that her position on the issue be mailed to me. I left my cell number for a call back as well. If there is anything else i can do in Missouri let me know. I visited Representative Carnahan’s office yesterday and left a letter stating the same thing. I am pissed off and ready to fight.

As a side note: Evil will prevail when good people do nothing and you all are good people. Keep up the fight.

tmack – yup. just like i said, they’re going to make the elderly, sick and poor do what they could not even bother to ask the wealthy to do in part. it’s despicable and we can’t let it simply be swept under the rug.

thank you for the support – you can download our mail-in contribution form at http://action.firedoglake.com/fdlmail (PDF)

Thanks popyeye – we’ve got a feedback form up if you wouldn’t mind sharing the details of your visit with us. You can find it at http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/safetynet-mtgshare

no Brian, thank you. It’s you guys on the front line of this fight like Jane, Jon, DDay and others that are really worthy of thanks.

If O wants to do something big and bold, how about retiring?

We could use a real Democrat instead of a undermine-all-that-we-worked-for crap fake Democrat that he is proving himself to be.

This is all very good. But the real problem is who the hell are we going to vote for?? The Republicans care nothing for the masses and Obama can’t give enough BJs to the rich banking elite. Third parties are doomed because they get no coverage. What we need is a CHOICE.

Im not voting for Obama but people say I am voting Repub if I do that. I don’t believe that is actually the case but it is true to a degree. All I know is the TeaParty got their third party and we need a new party now. Otherwise nothing will change and just Not Voting for the Trobama Horse is not enough.

Thanks to (the outstanding HCR coverage by Jon Walker, voters have had ample evidence for opposing reelection of Obama and all who voted for that Bill. What’s been missing is leadership & media coverage who will stand & say – no more.

Obama (& every President we’ve had for the past 30 years) has forwarded policies HURTING the majority of Americans. Why does it take a watershed event to say – no more?

The ONLY rational option is to vote against EVERY Incumbent until a majority realize voters are just as important as donors.
The questions I ask are simple, what percentage of households in your district earns more than $100,000 and why do you continually vote to hurt so many people in your own community?

The alternative is Obama doesn’t do this.

Done.

Thanks, Stevo!

they’re going to make the elderly, sick and poor do what they could not even bother to ask the wealthy to do in part.

what makes it so surreal is how unnecessary it is… the state of the federal budget doesn’t require anyone to sacrifice what they have.

is this cruelty for the sake of cruelty, or do our political leaders really have no idea what they are doing?

great, looking forward to reading it!

Donated. Hope we have some really good ads.

Thanks for going to visit your rep yesterday popyeye. Great work.

I would like to do ads Round II targeting McCaskill, et al who are up in 2012. This cannot be good for them.

Obama could just as easily declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional via the 14th amendment and avoid these cuts altogether. but alas..

Seriously, who can inflict more damage on us than Obama? Bush never touched Social Security – The Dems were united in opposition. But now that Obama is doing it, their silence is criminal.

Before we get started cranking out ads and putting out publicity and generally going slightly insane about the benefits the evil Obama and his band of merry henchmen have cut, it would be helpful to have something actually cut first.

The idea that we are taking any proposal generated by either side as anything other than posturing right now is a bit absurd. People have been floating ideas and proposals that they know will be unacceptable now for weeks and portions of both the left and right fall for the bait every time.

Better idea: direct as much attention as possible on the real bad guys, the republicans and if Obama the Terrible sells out all of our seniors and the sick and the baby kittens too, THEN you can have at it.

Otherwise this post just sounds like people who already don’t like Obama finding yet another reason to blast him before he’s even had a chance to screw it up.

We’re trying to stop him from screwing up. I don’t have much hope any more.

so you’d like to wait for benefit cuts to happen to start opposing them? how does that make any sense?

Obama supports these cuts. It’s no longer speculation or ideas.

Tactically, the time to pressure politicians is BEFORE all the deals are cut.

Frankly, they all need pressure all the time, about everything you care about.

Politics isn’t a spectator sport here; it’s interactive.

Great thoughts, agree with you that Obama’s claims that he has been forced to do anything by the GOP are bogus.

I don’t mean to nitpick, but I wonder if you undercut your own argument a bit in your first paragraph with your choice of words: “..the kinds of sacrifices the wealthy could not even be asked to make.”

The word “could” leaves open the possibility that Obama was unable to ask the wealthy for sacrifices, rather than that he was unwilling to do so. I wonder if the phrase “were not” would would reinforce your point more forcefully. Just a thought, in light of the fact that Bush and now Obama have gone beyond the pale in using language to mislead and confuse.

No, I see your point, and that was my point too. That he was completely unwilling to ask the wealthy to make a sacrifice and that’s part of why we are where we are. It was a deliberate choice, not circumstance.

Its a shame we trusted a backstabbing prck to be our President.

Vote with our feet. Sweden HERE WE COME!

We hired him. We can fire him. He is an employee.

angryblackguy

How dare you, don’t you know this IS THE BASE! First Grover, next Rick Perry for the lakers!

exactly. or instruct the treasury to mint a few $1 trillion proof platinum coins to deposit with the federal reserve.

the obama administration has it entirely within their control to end the fake crisis today. but they don’t.

any dem in congress who signs on for the madness of cutting one penny from social security, medicare or medicaid deserves to be sent home from deecee.

Right… Let’s be reasonable and wait for the real signed version of the bill.

I don’t know how much good it will do but last week I sent both of my senators and my house member (all dems, supposedly)an email stating that if they voted in any way, shape or form to cut SS or Medicare I would personally paper my area with posters stating they he, NOT A NAMELESS REPUBLICAN, had voted to cut SS and Medicare.

I may have become too cynical, at my advanced age, but whoever becomes the next President won’t do so without the approval of the plutocrats who run the corporations. They just seem to change their mask every four or eight years to give the citizenry the illusion of control. They’re all puppets, and we don’t manipulate them, we’re at their non-existent mercy.

Better idea: direct as much attention as possible on the real bad guys, the republicans and if Obama the Terrible sells out all of our seniors and the sick and the baby kittens too, THEN you can have at it.

because it’s better to sit on our hands while people’s lives are on the line? are you seriously advising waiting to act until after the deed has been done?

Or at least the voters in the swing states can fire him. If my vote here in California actually mattered to Obama, he’d already have lost the election.

The voters also need to know that not only is he cutting social security, but he is lowering the tax rate for the rich in this plan as well. Not to mention increasing our taxes by closing the mortgage interest deduction and a few other readily used deductions by the middle class.

I just finished an angry “commentary” to the DNC, which had written to solicit $$$$. They of course waved the “scary, scary Republicans who want to cut social security” flag. I let ‘em have it, remarking that it’s OBAMA who put social security & Medicare “on the table,” and that they should be ashamed of such lying antics.

Yeah, yeah, no one will read it, but a) it’s better than sending money [duh]; b) by responding, it shows someone is reading their crap and rejecting it.

I noted that there were FOUR voters in our household who’d contributed to, worked for, and voted for Obama in 2008, and that ALL would be voting Third Party in 2012. Multiply that by a few million, Slimeball.

Sounds like you bought into the “look forwards, not backwards” rhetoric/BS that the liar-in-chief has been peddling

Is angryblackguy a resident of the pro-Obama “angryblacklady” blog?

Since Obama has already extended the Bush tax cuts and nixed the proposed concession of the debt limit while insisting on a Grand Plan to cut $4 trillion from the Federal budget, I don’t see what waiting will do for you. When thieves enter your home, do you tell them you’ll call the cops later, after they’re finished?

Both, but the average person just thinks we “need” to do it since the debt is “unsustainable”. They bought that line hook, line and sinker. The ads FDL runs should try somehow to bring this point across, especially the fact that high income earners do not pay what they can easily pay with no hardship.

I feel that what your suggestion is the best. It is best to vote against each and every Incumbent, especially Democratic incumbents. Especially if that incumbent’s goal is to collect one billion dollars in funding for his campaign.

I think you’ve bypassed the fact that Obama has proven he is one of the bad guys.

Thank you for the mail-in contribution form with your mailing address on it!

Those of us who ditched our credit cards when Master card, Pay Pal and Amazon dumped Wikileaks are now operating from our checkbooks.

It was very nice of you to put together a very readable form for those of us who were “left behind”.

It’s not enough to oppose benefit cuts.

Cuts in government spending are necessary. The federal government currently has to borrow 43 cents of every dollar it spends and there is a four billion dollar DAILY deficit.

There must be an alternative proposal, and that would be cutting the Pentagon corporate welfare budget. In other words what Obama has taken off the table, and what the majority of Americans recognize is wasteful spending, must be put on the table if entitlement cuts are to be avoided or lessened.

A recent New York Times/CBS News poll asked:
If you had to choose one, which would you be willing to change in order to cut government spending?
Medicare 21
Social Security 13
Military 55
No opinion 10

Doesn’t those trillion dollar coins also constitute debt? If not why not issue 15 of them and store them in a vault at the Fed and eliminate all the debt??

Yep, and anyone disagreeing will be accused of conspiring with the Bachmann camp.

But we must have our wars. It’s the Republican thing to do. s/

the average person just thinks we “need” to do it since the debt is “unsustainable”. They bought that line hook, line and sinker.

who can blame them when virtually all the “progressive” think tanks are also saying the same damn thing?

pete peterson and crew and effing brilliant. what a shame all that money and smarts wasn’t used to try to make the world a better place.

I did the same thing with a two page letter but I also doubt they will read it. Heck, they still call here looking for money. Lately, I just hang up.

it’s just the difference between cash and savings account which earns a little bit of interest.

“Without an alternative(does anyone believe g o p wouldn’t also cut ) how do these ads help?”

There are always alternatives besides voting for Democrats or Republicans.

Slight OT . . . .

Aside from being a complete and utterly bought and owned erected offal serving the corproate fascists, something new occurred to me just now.

It’s a bit of a loose end but . . .

If Obama WANTS a 2nd term, or his handlers (corps/bankers/The Wall) want him there again . . . ya GOT to believe they all KNOW most of the proggy’s that are left of the GOP are gonna dump on the Dims and especially Obama for ’12.

So what better way to make up those losses than try and get some of them GOP voters and ‘sposed indie libs?

Just a thot . . . man is this gonna be a bloodbath come erection day.

1) Worst turnout ever.
2) Least votes for either party.

I wonder how the electorals will go . . . hm m m m . . . THEM votes are guided by money, too . . . either side wins the day for the corps tho, either way we are screwed. They’ll not get my vote, nor my party affiliation anymore either . . . that’s a done deal.

Why is this not the Republicans job? Do they want credit for cutting Social Security?

As someone said up thread, the time to object to anything like this is NOW, not after it is a done deal.

Our pleasure!

Because we already know that he’s willing to jump through hoops to get a deficit cutting deal that cuts the social safety net. And we want to stop him before he SIGNS the bill.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59486.html

I am totally surprised there is not more of this being talked about. I think it is equally outrageous. It makes a mockery of the whole cut the deficit thing.

Seeing how things have played out in the last couple of years, I kinda like this one

I truly have no idea, but do seniors use Facebook a lot? Or is placing an ad on Facebook to get everyone’s attention? (Most will become retirees eventually, after all.) Pay day coming up – I’ll donate a pittance then. Wish it could be more.

Not that is matters much but I will contribute more for the next ad buy. I do hope we make something of the tax issue out there.

This campaign also implies that whoever signs it will vote for Obama if he doesn’t cut benefits. There is a long list of betrayals that caused him to lose my vote a long time ago. It’s time for us to come to the realization that BOTH parties are battling for the money and attention of corporations. The people of this country aren’t even considered unless it’s to squeeze out what little is left.

http://thehill.com/images/stories/gangofsix_plan.pdf
Outline of the plan – see bottom of Page 3 for tax cut for the wealthy

So now we are going to have a “short term” extension of the debt limit, so we can suffer with this shit a little longer and Obama can look for more cover. Great.

Heck, they still call here looking for money. Lately, I just hang up.

Oh, I engage them in a little “chat” before hanging up. The list of “accomplishments” they attempt to recite in response is ridiculous. Pretty much “Lily Ledbetter” is all they’ve got.

Without an alternative(does anyone believe g o p wouldn’t also cut ) how do these ads help?

You’ve asked the question no one here wants to address. The cuts are a done deal. Protest as you may. The ads will presumably miss one really important detail. To inform senior citizens, the young or “swing voters” that neither wing of the Uniparty is worth their vote and they really should look elsewhere. Without that crucial line, the adds are meaningless and suggest their authors still pin their hopes on Uniparty congresspigs spontaneously reforming themselves.

What makes you say that? We say nothing about what has to happen for him to get anyone’s vote.

We’re saying vote NO unconditionally if he supports benefit cuts.

We should make them pay until they feel hardship?

I wanted to fix this for you:

“One of the most ridiculous things we hear [from Obama groupies who have their heads stuck too far up Obama's ass to see the truth that Obama is selling them out and killing them softly] is that President Obama was FORCED to put benefit cuts on the table — an argument that conveniently ignores the fact that Mitch McConnell offered a clean debt limit vote which Obama rejected forthright.”

One really serious consequnce of cutting SSMM is it sets up the expectation they can do it again when things get tough. That affects the thinking of younger people who then will think SSMM will not be there for them or will not be very good. And with that the stage is set to eliminate or really reduce the social safety net that we have built over the last 75 years. Maybe the ads should target everyone.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I am always suspicious about people who throw cold water (comment #73)on other people’s attempts to do the right thing and stop some madness.

The Democrat (sic) incumbents understand that they have to behave as Republicans (used to behave — Earl Warren was a Republican), being fiscally responsible, old boy. No opponent of theirs in 2012, no pundit, will be able to accuse them of ‘tax-and-spend’ or ‘weak-on-defense’. And look for Democratic Senator Bob ‘pro-life’ Casey of PA to feature prominently at the convention. They’ll run with reminders of how Bill Clinton ‘ended welfare’ and (sic) ushered in the greatest (sic) decade of prosperity ever. With a ‘budget surplus’ (exclamation point). They will lie till our brains fry.

Flipped through your outline from the hill and didn’t see it. Is the phase out of the mortgage deduction in there?

found it

“Reform, not eliminate, tax expenditures for health, charitable giving, homeownership,
and retirement, and retain support for low-income workers and families.”

You think maybe the middle class is not suffering hardship and the cuts to SSMM will not make it worse?

Grammar police nitpick.

ahead of 2012 to try and dispel

should read …”try to dispel….” Substituting and for to after the verb “to try” is just incorrect. An all too common grammatical error.

*ducking*

Good point (& scary).

oh yes – we will spread this ad far and wide, but most importantly will focus our message on current retirees, since they are the ones getting immediately screwed.

Oh geez SD,I’m going into hiding. But of course, you are right.

I have been trying to do google searches to identify Senior groups that we might be able to team with to get the word out….I work a lot of hours so time is tight and I am traveling this weekend..there has to be lists available somewhere

Obama has wanted to cut from day one to pay back Pete Peterson and Wall st..

It very well may make it worse. I just don’t see why that justifies making someone else feel hardship. I thought the idea was to make people better off, not make everyone equally miserable. When you say things like that it sounds like nothing more than bitterness.

definitely – we need to put up our dukes now, not later.

As a Senior Citizen, this really upsets me. Obama has sold us out. I wonder if his feelings would be different if his mother was still alive.

Do you plan on fighting any Republicans? Your no votes on the Democrats are certainly clear. It would be nice, though, to maintain Democrats in office. FDL people talk a lot, but we need to get into the faces of the Repubs and defeat them. Failing to vote for Democrats is self-defeating.

I don’t believe that Obama cares one way or another whether the masses see him as someone who cuts benefits. If he did he certainly wouldn’t have appointed a commission that leaned heavily on cutting them and continually harped about he sees them on the table and as willing to be part of a grand bargain.

Your best hope is the House and the Senate IMO. Obama is a lost cause(and incredibly problematic since next go round he won’t even have the threat of losing another term to make him show a little pretense.)

Any ideas that you or anyone else has for targetting are most certainly welcome

Democrats are a focus of our efforts, but our pledge says not to vote for ANYONE who makes cuts.

Centers where seniors meet. Plenty of those around and it could be done by those who live near them – things for notice boards or even someone to go in and speak to them.

I agree that Congress may be an easier target, but that doesn’t let Obama off the hook.

This is a phony crisis to begin with and the wealthy have refused to participate at all. So, yeah, I am pissed that they do not share in this crisis that their Tea Party assholes shoved on us.

That usage issue is dead. ‘Try and’ has legitimate standing, especially on blogs.

(Go and try to tell your dentist you can’t ‘bite down’, you can only ‘bite up’; and you can’t ‘open up’ your mouth, you can only open it down.)

If the democrats vote for this they are no better than the Thugs.

Not always.

The local green that they ran last cycle in my neck of the woods was basically an extension of the right side of the aisle. Anti choice, anti tax, etc,etc.

This cycle is looking up though in terms of choices. A female is looking to primary Kaine and we’ve got an Indy that was part of the education system and ran a prior election. Not a whole lot of info out on them but I’m definitely looking at something better than my usual alternatives.

“crisis that their Tea Party assholes shoved on us.”

Welcome to democracy

Great. Make our voice heard.

There are 17 Democrats in the Senate up for re election. Has anyone found out where these folks stand on the issue?

“Want My Vote? Don’t Cut Benefits.”

That implies I’ll vote for him if he doesn’t cut benefits. You know, I’m tired and exhausted of fighting what is supposed to be my own party. Bells and whistles should start sounding when you find yourself fighting the people who are supposed to be on your side.

Did you happen to notice the corporate tax rate will also be reduced to a top of 29% – I believe the top tax for a corporation right now is 35%.

… FDL people talk a lot, but we need to get into the faces of the Repubs and defeat them. Failing to vote for Democrats is self-defeating.

I think you probably mean well, but you have no idea of what you’re talking about

yep saw it.

thats a fantastic idea – let me think on that. do you know where we could find listings for senior centers? we would have to be able to point people toward them..

we’re getting feedback in from our national day of action – hopefully that will have some info on that.

When will the Democrats change if we keep voting for them? It’s like threatening to punish your child but never doing it. After awhile that child simply does not believe you.

(((grammar police)))

I imagine that they would only be listed in local phone directories. Also places of assisted living – and they do vote. Not nursing homes but places where seniors live in apartment like settings.

You think the “reform” here means give us more deductions on home ownership/mortgage interest?

Yo, Jane! Reach into your cache of talented fans who can make a professional-style video and try to make it go viral. Maybe find the original Obama Girl (if she’ll work pro bono and believes in the cause) or a knock-off impersonator. You could script it (better than anyone could). Hurry, there’s not much time…

how would you recommend we put it? sounds like semantics to me. you could say the same of “I won’t vote for you if you cut benefits” or “Cut benefits and I won’t vote for you.”

the point isnt about what he needs to do to get our vote. it’s what he can do to definitively not get our vote.

Gray Panthers too

i wonder if there’s some sort of a resource for that online… like craigslist for seniors.

of course not. But imagine its going to be a 500k cap and maybe an elimination of the mortgage interest deduction on vacation homes.

I keep asking it because it is an incredibly important question.

I keep hoping that eventually there will be enough people asking it as well.

The system as it stands right now is NOT WORKING. It didn’t work for FISA. It didn’t work for the bailouts and I suspect it will not work for this.

Sorry maybe you said so, but is this ad all internet? Are there any media, newsprint or circulars ?

this ad campaign is all internet – facebook and google. but we’re not opposed to circulars or other mediums, it would just be a matter of having the funds to do so. this is just the beginning my friend.

Bold words, but who in Congress will pay attention?

I think it is possible to make Congress pay attention. Unfortunately, the populace is not in the habit of mass mobilization – which implies a street presence – for much of anything. The sort of “mass mobilization” that I think would be most beneficial, by far, is one of smallish groups of citizens reaching out to citizens in public areas, but frequently and ubiquitously.

A group of local reformers made a massive gain against entrenched Democratic party officials, in New Brunswick, NJ, by taking their case to the public. While not decribed in Progressives and Revolutionaries Win 25 Seats in Local Democratic Party, when the above article came out, I looked into their effort, more deeply. They were big on communicating with motorists who had stopped at red lights, e.g..

Do you know of any groups which is utilizing public spaces, to propagate progressive political messages, with electoral threats? (I mean, besides a an occasional bumper sticker. I’m thinking specifically of outreaches with real, live people ready and eager to engage passers-by.) I understand why Veal Pen organizations don’t want to rile up the public, but what is the excuse of progressives who see through the Veal Pen clown car, for not organizing as much and as effectively as possible? (Not to mention attempting a good deal of creative democratic experimentation, to find out what works, and what doesn’t.)

I’m not going to be surprised when SS and Medicare are cut. Obama stabbed us in the back wrt healthcare, but what did even the non-Veal Pen progressives do about it? Nothing that worked.

There are some differences, this time around, as both PCCC and FDL are showing leadership wrt making electoral threats. Which is fine by me, but given the lateness of the hour, should not seriously bold progressives be attempting a mass mobilization?

I have posted some of my thoughts on mass street outreach here. I wonder why nobody else seems to have many thoughts about generating a mass street mobilization? How much good do they think can come from petitions, or even a smallish amount of citizen lobbying? Am I missing something?

One thing I’m sure I’m not missing is that the streets of Newark, NJ, where I live, are pretty much an activist-free zone, the overwhelming majority of the time. I worked in Manhattan a few months ago, and the story was mostly the same, there.

Sorry, missed that. Juat a question for you,do you think democracy means shared sacrifice or did all those people get shot up in our wars just for shits and grins?

What I know is doing the right thing is always the best policy or we are no different than the people we rail against. IMO

I keep asking it because it is an incredibly important question.

I keep hoping that eventually there will be enough people asking it as well.

The system as it stands right now is NOT WORKING. It didn’t work for FISA. It didn’t work for the bailouts and I suspect it will not work for this.

It’s a very, very slow process, and of course, every time an initiative like this kicks off, laudable though the effort may be, it is starkly obvious that there is no credible or useful threat to exercise since the Uniparty is a single governing organ and doesn’t care which of its stooges you put in government.

Of course, I am right. There will be no direction in those ads to vote something other than Uniparty. None. And without that, the cuts will keep coming at an accelerating rate.

I think posts like yours are a real Godsend to the Powers that Be, because you will create a distraction, and thus help feed into the un-self-aware impotence of the blog-o-sphere. People will imagine that, by dissecting your argument, they will have accomplished something, when they will have mostly just wasted time and energy.

From the point of view of maintaing the status quo, though, of progressive impotence, you will be the winner.

Brian,

Is the ad targeting Obama or anyone in general who supports cutting the social safety nets and severing the social contract made inthe 80s? Didn’t the 50+ age group already reject Obama in 2008? Is there evidence that this particular group will make a difference? I’m just trying to understand the logic behind hitting this group instead of spending resources convincing groups that supported Obama/Democrats in 2008 that if he cuts benefits they should withhold their support(like unions for example)?

I do realize that some of the logic may be we have to start somewhere and I do appreciate that at the very least FDL is trying to make a difference in the political debate. It’s definitely not easy.

Exactly. This is when I went totally ballistic. We have had the tax cuts. Why more? And now increasing middle class taxes? But no increases for the wealthy. WTFF?

Okay, so you imagine they are going to do wonderful things (none of which I’ve heard them talk about, sorry to say) and I imagine they will live up to all the talk about this and remove the deduction for mortgage interest. I cannot say you are incorrect and you cannot say I am incorrect.

Good, so I can expect to help fund more of this.

It occurs to me that if you target some young people you may also get the elderly as well. Somehow you have to get an inclusive audience. The one can reinforce the other, since we are all in this together.

Many seniors are on facebook because of their grandchildren.

I plan on fighting everybody but the pledge I signed was concerning Democrats and their plan to cut SS and Medicare. I was reporting my experience on the pledge I signed. My Republican Senator is Roy Blunt and I wouldn’t vote for him or any other Republican anytime ever. However he will be included should he vote the same way.

yes- we will not only be targetting that demographic, but they’re stakeholders and we feel its important that they know what’s going on. remember, this isn’t just about obama. this is any elected official who participates in cutting benefits.

we want to get our message out as far and wide as possible, so the 50+ demographic won’t (and can’t) be the only group we focus on.

Cuts in government spending are necessary. The federal government currently has to borrow 43 cents of every dollar it spends and there is a four billion dollar DAILY deficit.

This is absolute nonsense. Cuts in government spending will WORSEN the deficit and increase the debt. Like a dog chasing its tail. A downward spiral.

Yup. They pay for the past 10 years warmaking and tax cuts with this kabuki. Then they can spend more of wars. Then they come back and cut more to pay for that. NEVER paying for the wars with fair taxation. This is to balance the books. So they can keep going the same way.

thanks for the support. this is going to be a long campaign, so there will be plenty of opportunities for your help.

We should demand a war tax.

I maybe out of touch and dated on this one but are the grey panthers still around? What about Code Pink? Would NOW help? Or other women’s group? Union groups who have retirees? Retired Vets groups? Could we snooker AARP somehow for names/listes? That would be great! :)

I just had the DR show on and I had to turn ot off…Jonathon C and Matt Miller were marginalizing Bernie Sanders and referred to him as far left and saying his ideas are a bit out there…hey guys…try FAIR left as opposed to neoliberal corporate butt kisser..Matt Miller is the worse

FWIW, I think you’re asking the right question

I think you’re asking the right question, because I think the focus is wrong. The focus shouldn’t be on Obama – the focus should be on the individual Democratic and Republican Reps. and Senators. Because then you’re threatening them with self-preservation

Republicans fear their base and Democrats hate theirs

I think the way to be effective is to make the Democrats fear us by drawing a line in the sand – here – and now – and making it clear that they will be primaried, and they will be fought against tooth and nail if they don’t do everything possible to stop this madness.

By that I mean every possible parliamentary maneuver possible. Make sure the people on the House Rules Committee know we’re watching them. Make sure that the Senators know, that we know, the rules to secret holds. Make sure that any Unanimous Consent agreements will be objected to

Make sure that they know, that we’re watching them

And make it clear to them that their jobs are on the line

Make them fear us

Just as long as you don’t feel any pain.

Yes.

What is it you think I was trying to argue with you about?

You asked me if I though “You think the “reform” here means give us more deductions on home ownership/mortgage interest?”

and I gave you my best guess at what reform might be. I don’t have any idea what it will actually be or if they will get rid of it all together. What I do know is if they do get rid of it the cost of housing, both home ownership and rent is going to be headed higher.

What are you talking about?

Fair Left: that’s good!

“There is no question that the Iraq war added substantially to the federal debt. This was the first time in American history that the government cut taxes as it went to war. The result: a war completely funded by borrowing. U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war. And that doesn’t include future health care and disability payments for veterans, which will add another half-trillion dollars to the debt.”

From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/03/AR2010090302200.html

With direct costs of perpetual war in the Middle East at well over a trillion bucks, total costs are estimated at between $3 and $4.5 trillion. None of this makes it to the public TV debate on the deficit, while the Dept. of Defense might have to cut 1% of its budget (and you can bet your last thin dime that that will be based on an inflated, projected budget).

Related: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/29/us-usa-war-idUSTRE75S25320110629

“The final bill will run at least $3.7 trillion and could reach as high as $4.4 trillion, according to the research project “Costs of War” by Brown University’s Watson Institute for International Studies.”

And Obama proposes $4 trillion in cuts. What a coincidence.

When it’s good for them, it’s “win-win”; when it’s not, all of a sudden it’s a “zero-sum game”.

I suspect that was part of the purpose of switching to Obama in the good cop-bad cop con. He and the Dems could more easily accomplishing robbing the SS nest egg.

Is there another kind? And if so, who?

Of course it will make a difference! We vote and many of us did vote for Obama last time and this 60 year old sure won’t be making the same mistake.

He cannot afford to lose votes in swing states and in states like MN, WI, IA people are OLD and people VOTE.

Raging Grannies is another one.

That’s right. This is a shell game to get the war costs off the books. Then they start running up the tab on the wars again, ’cause they are planning on maybe adding a couple too.

If you don’t vote Republican, your vote isn’t for a Republican. What people mean is “your vote won’t count”. Well, my vote hasn’t counted for more years than I care to remember when I voted for the Democrats, so I’ll write in appropriate candidates where none appear on my ballot.

Please don’t vote Republican. You’re just enabling them by indicating that you believe in what they’re doing. Write in a vote of conscience.

The older contingent went overwhelmingly Republican.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/29/exit-polls-mccain-benefits-from-older-voters/

That isn’t saying that there weren’t some older folks who voted for Obama, just that the majority voted for his opposition.

Mind you Obama seems to spend more of his time wooing whoever voted for the other guy than he does on wooing his base. (shrugs)

My 83-year-old mother is on Facebook. I’m not even on Facebook (I’m a privacy freak, I guess you could say), but she is.

It should be clear by now that voting for Democrats is not getting in the face of, but rather standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Republicans. Everybody but Bernie Sanders-not a Democrat-has rolled over. There is no room for progressives in either of these parties. The Democrats have rejected progressives so thoroughly they lie to them as they ignore them. Progressives have been dismissed as nuisances by the democrats, we have it in quotes. What does it take to see that progressives and their ideals are not wanted? There’s no one more pathetic than that guy who hangs around after it’s over. Time to move on.

You might think about the fact that a big reason this country was where it used to be economically was because of the middle and working classes. You may not be part of the middle class, and you may think you’ll escape the effects of what’s coming economically, but I’ll guarantee you that when the middle class dies, the economy of this country will never recover. Depending on who you believe, consumer spending amounts to between 60% and 70% of our GDP. Seniors and people on disability spend a far larger percentage of their income because they have to. When you cut their abilty to spend, every business on Main Street takes a hit.

I suspect many folks with serious power and money know exactly what they want and have a good idea on how to get it when it comes to money. These folks aren’t fucking up when it comes to the budget. They are professional theives and con artists with a sociopathic streak a mile wide. Most empires collapse after switching to a financed-based economy and then going broke fighting wars. We’ve had ten years of especially expensive perpetual war that hasn’t been funded by taxes. How are they going to keep the shit torpedo going? Tap into the country’s savings account. This strategy will not keep our unsustainable system of perpetual war going, it will just mean that it will take longer to crash and burn.

Not all of them have- however the quality and quantity of those that listen rather than mock those that are on the left side of the aisle is not good.

Case in point 40 House members wrote a letter saying that they opposed making women a bargaining chipduring the health care debates. A minority group of 12 held health care hostage(at Speaker Pelosi’s own say so)until they got their way and women’s reproductive health care was jettisoned.

We know that the downward spiral ends at some point, that they are sucking the economy dry, but the sociopaths don’t seem able to figure that out. Or they think that the Chinese are the new Consumer for the American economic engine.

“Help me! I fell down, and now I can’t vote for you!”

Some of the Senior Centers are in the park and recreation buildings. Also, bingo games!

Well with all the vacation homes they have bought, they figure it really doesn’t matter what happens in the new third world economy they are creating. They’re insulated from the peasantry in other places and feel confident they’ll be able to do the same here.

Jane, I also called my Senator Amy Klobuchar and the person intercepting her calls could have gave a “rats ass” what I was requesting so I called the Chair of the Minnesota DFL. He told me that he talked to both of out Reps and they assured him they would not vote for any cuts to the Big Three. I asked him why, after 30 years of caucusing and working for the Dems that I should continue to be a Dem. I asked what we would stand for if we destroyed these programs. He said that we should hold our Reps accountable if they vote to cut these services.

Well, he’s a weasel, huh?

Great Job. My family will do the same.

I agree with the VOTE THEM ALL OUT approach for incumbents. Send them back to real life where people work at least 5 days a week and don’t get a vacation every month. Deny them pensions and lifetime healthcare. I’d vote against all of them except Bernie Sanders, who I would like to persuade to run for the presidency. Can you write in a presidential candidate?

The problem with these pundit shows is that they never invite “real people” on. We’re engaged, articulate, knowledgeable….

The pundits never invite people who need Social Security and Medicare. $2000 a year cuts in Social Security and higher costs for Medicare will deprive the elderly of dignity. They don’t get that. Even a rich guy like FDR did.

That trillionaire Warner has got to be the most arrogant weasel alive (and I used to think that was Tim Pawlenty).

Huh, are you kidding? What are you saying, Republicans are worse? EVERY Democrat who voted for Obama’s stinking HCR should be defeated, every one of them. Every Republican in office should be defeated because they’ve done NOTHING to help working class Americans. My solution is simple: VOTE OUT EVERY INCUMBENT, REGARDLESS the PARTY!

Good! I called her too and I have also contacted the DFL and will do so again.

Who elected Amy to cut Social Security $2000 a year and Amy better be ready to own that in her re-election campaign.

ABSOLUTELY! But, the problem is, come voting day way too many voters decide to give their Reps. a free ride. We get the Gov’t. we deserve I guess. And, if FDL comments are representative I guess we’ve become a nation of whiners, not voters who dare to hold our Representatives accountable.

There was a lot of people who comment here, and do not comment here, VERY BUSY yesterday making time to personally, as in, in person, put pressure on their Congress critter.

Did you?

If not you owe at the least a retraction of your “whiner” comment.

I agree. If they vote to cut S.S. they should *at least* cut their
own pensions + health care, too. Shared sacrifice!

I don’t want to belittle the importance of that stand or the severity of the crisis of that issue, but the entire Democratic house should have been standing on not only that fundamental right but also on single-payer, and all the other lines in the sand that were crossed with impunity or given away at the outset. Pelosi herself, even when House majority leader, never mind those 12, are personna non grata to the party leadership and the WH. In the face of the onslaught, it’s not nearly enough.

this matt miller? or someone else?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1141368

I’ve raised funds, walked precincts, hauled voters to the booths & worked with my Represent foratives they know me by name. I also contributed to Scott Brown’s campaign to protest Obama’s deeds.
I will vote to oust EFERY Incumbent until I see someone, anyone, represent interests of the middle 60% of Americans who’ve lost the most ground over the last 30 years. Obama is a disgrace, he’s the worst Democratic President ever & one of the worst Presidents ever.
I’m fed up with whiners who say Republicans are worse or that Obama’s doing the best he can or that he’d do better if it weren’t for Congress. Obama IS the problem. He had control of BOTH the Senate & the House. He deserved to lose the House BECAUSE of what he did and didn’t do. This mess is TOTALLY Obama’s fault.

OMG. this is a parody site, right?

Yeah, just like Lawrence O’Donnell telling us that Obama is just pretending to want to cut Social Security and Medicare. It’s a joke! It’s so funny!!! If you’re over 50 you should be rolling in the aisles with laughter.

(Of course, if it isn’t a joke then you can just lie there waiting to be run over by the Catfood gang’s bus).

“it would be helpful to have something actually cut first.”

You have got to be kidding. Have you not noticed how hard it is to change a screwing after it has been passed? Bush Tax cuts needed reversal in 2006 – nothing even proposed. Then in 2008 we win and in 2009 do we get a bill to end those tax cuts – nope.

This either killed now – or many of us go to our grave with the damn things effect still going on and on and on.

Give Obama a chance as he proposes to screw us? – Why? Does he get extra time because he is the first black president, or do we buy that he is doing a complicated deal that will benefit us in the end more than not doing anything?

Amen

spot on

It is worse than a reduction from 35% for corporations to a “range” of 20% to 29%.

They are ending all taxes on overseas profits – calling it “moving to a territorial system”.

Current US corporations pretend all value to the products they sell is added over seas, and the US operation is a distribution company that loses money – so no current paid tax, and they record a deferred tax on overseas profits that is never paid, and they then report a tax cost that is 35% based on a tax paid of zero – all the tax is “deferred”.

See post above

Yes.

Weasel.

The corporations the the kids going wild in the little candy shop of tax abatement/avoidance.

You guy are the liberal equivalent of RedState and the TeaTards. I come here not for your analysis which is horrible, but for the laughs. Thanks!

Hmmm. This post sure does seem to have attracted a lot of new names and “faces” never before seen around FDL for the express purpose of attempted mockery.

Now whyever could this be? Surely it isn’t because the PTB in the Dem party are actually seeing a threat to their go along/get along/”We must cut Social security in order to save it” bull shit?

Nah, that couldn’t be it at all…