Thanks Jane, this is a great start.

Thanks Boo. I’m planning my day already. I’m really looking forward to it!

This is the way for progressives to move into action. Great commentary!

How about that we will not support ANY Democrat if any Dems vote for cuts to these social programs? I wish I could visit, but I will call – reps and senaotors and Obama – again.

The President is in no position to even call himself a Democrat.

I’m not an advocate of ss cuts, but just saying NO won’t fix the impending shortfall.

What’s the long term plan?

If I wasn’t 16 hours away… X(

Goddamn Obama. What a fucking joke.

If we had wanted to elect Bush the third, we’d have set aside goddamn term limits and left dubbya installed.

This guy has me at wits end. Hope. Change. What the fuck ever.

Excellent! Along with the Petition to Congress, if they don’t understand this then they don’t deserve to hold office.

It is seriously stupid for them to be posturing on this instead of working on an Economic plan to keep America afloat. Half of America is not working and they spend time creating false crisis to take more from us.

I’m so excited! I’ll have a post up in a little while to see how many Denver folks I can collect, but I got on Sirota’s radio show this morning!

They’ve got the podcast up here and my bit starts at 4:30 in to it.

Put people back to work! Their contributions will then do what they are suppose to do. Oh yeah, Tell Finance Committee members to pay back to SS or else!

Here is your new Social Security and Retirement plan:

http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm

Directions for use:

Load magazine, insert in mouth at age 65 and pull trigger.

Ah, Kelly! Excellent!

When I was on CSPAN this morning they played the tape of the President lecturing progressives on what they should care about (having our “fiscal house in order”).

And I thought, what happened to “jobs?” Seriously? Defense spending over Social Security and Medicare?

It’s a concerted attempt to appropriate the word “progressive” on the part of disgraced neoliberalism. Those Third Way bastards are a part of it. I’m not even sure why I care, they have already rendered it almost meaningless. But it grates that he now mocks the beliefs that he worked so hard to convince people he embraced in 2008. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing.

He himself should start by telling Treasury to pay off those SS T-Notes!

I’d like to get his list of what he thinks he should care about!

Will someone explain to me how Social Security got caught up in Federal budget talks? The president has done much to lose my support, but if he officially obliterates the vivid line between SS and the budget, he’s not just depraved (drones, torture, vanity wars), he is a fool.

It started with his hand selected Committee for debt/deficit reduction. Alan Simpson, Bowles, etc. I keep thinking that it was not only those two pushing it, but by his own design.

I was on CSPAN this morning and several callers were near tears as they said how they had been calling their Social Security offices, and the offices told them they didn’t know for sure if they’d be getting their checks or not.

I caught your appearance on C-SPAN. (A pleasant surprise, as I usually expect to see some right-wing windbag droning on about “cutting spending,” blah, blah.) My takeaway was that this issue most definitely cuts across party lines, and that getting the rightwingers active on it can only be a good thing. The elites want to keep everyone divided and (thus) easier to control. Unifying around this issue is a way to scare the holy hell out of them. Retired right-wingers like their SS & Medicare, too…

The President lectures progressives on Friday about how we should all care about the nation’s fiscal health. We do

it’s the president who apparently does not care about the nation’s economic health.

the fed govt is the monopoly issuer of our currency. as such the fed govt can not run out of dollars. it’s a totally different situation than that of currency users like households, businesses and state/local govt budgets.

what matters for the future of social security and medicare and medicaid is the economic productivity of our nation. not some bogus notion of the fed govt needing to hoard dollars.

cutting SS, medicare and/or medicaid is not just cruel, it’s bat-shit-crazy economics and harmful, not just to the people who depend on these programs, but to everyone because cuts would damage the national economy.

we need more, not less, federal govt deficit spending. and THAT, mr. president, is what you should be advocating if you care about the nation’s fiscal health.

Definitely! I’m afraid and I am still 10 years out from being elligible!

When neoliberalism became the ideology du jour in the early 80s under Thatcher and St Ronnie of RayGuns one of its core goals was to do away with social programs by privatizing them. The Republicans have hated SS since its inception and gladly took up the neoliberal banner. The DLC, and now Third Way, embraced it as well. Democrats couldn’t jump on the band wagon fast enough. Neoliberalism has made a few people extraordinarily wealthy at the expense of the rest of us.

Nice tag team we got goin’ today. *g*

Selise,

It is my solid thought that the Social Security/Medicare program is the only thing left that our government is forced to participate with the citizens. They have slowly removed almost all rights, ways to make a living, and even steal our votes. That program is the only one left that beholdens our government to the people.

There is no need to worry about SS cuts, though Medicare might be a bit more danger.

Nothing of any note will happen on these until we get to a point similar to a few countries in Europe and we are forced to.

That is at least 10 years or more off.

People were worried about Bowles/Simpson, and nothing came of it. Nothing will come of any of these efforts today.

People liken it to a home budget. They always mention the family cutting back, but what is the true reality? Families generally don’t cut back until 1. their credit cards hit the limit, 2. a notice of eviction is delivered or 3. some other similar thing happens.

Same for the US government. Someday, the pot of gold will run out. Only then will something happen.

Anyone close to retirement (meaning 45 or older), likely have nothing to worry about. The day of action is far off.

I am all set to go to Russ Carnahan’s district office. From what I am told he will not be there but a member of his staff will be. I retyped the sample letter on my own letterhead and plan to leave it with who ever I talk to. I am going to reiterate that NO one gets my vote if they touch SS/Med/Nedicaid. Thanks Jane I think with so many people showing up it might get their attention. These guys are scum of the earth. Now Mitch M. wants to change the Constitution because voting doesn’t work anymore. What a moron.

p.s. and yes, i damn well intend to visit my congress member’s local office tomorrow.

what fun! and… many thanks!

Yep! See my comment at 22!

good point.

I lost the one guy on the Moody’s thread. Hard core money supply monetarist so that discussion will go nowhere. Doesn’t like Mosler so not gonna beat my head against that wall.

Jane and all,
I will make the 70 mile trip tomorrow but it will not do much good as my Congresscritter is a Repub and votes strictly with the Repub line for the last 20 years. Not one vote against his masters wishes.
popyeye, I am going to follow your example and leave a letter although i do not think he can read either. He certainly does not read the wishes of his D constituents.

recommended prep reading (and then bring a copy to your rep’s office) for tomorrow is warren mosler’s short book, Seven Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy with intro by james k. galbraith.

pdf available at the link

2,000 people / (435 House Members + 100 Senators) is a little under 4 people per legislator. 4 people simply does not constitute a respectable mob… will they even know this is part of some larger statement?

Crank this up by an order of magnitude or three and it might have an impact. Or maybe if you organized it to influence a handful of fence-sitters with 100 people at each…

don’t say you are a D. and you can still give him mosler’s book (there are stories about rumsfeld as well as al gore in it).

How many constituents of your Representative do you think walk into the local office and express their opinion on any given day?

Back to work.

Namaste

the way to crank this up is, for all of us who can, go tomorrow. and then next time go again but bring a friend too.

social movements don’t just drop out of the sky like manna from heaven. they are built… one person at a time.

Absolutely! It would also be good if local tv or radio would cover some of it, but most of them are owned by News Corp!

thanks SD. later today i’ll attempt to write a quick diary on mosler’s book and why we should all read it tonight then and bring it to our rep’s office tomorrow.

I’m just going to go tell them that they had better not get between me and my monthly income for food, medicine and shelter. Ever. I’m not going to be nice. When threatened I am not nice. This is a threat to my survival and they will hear all about it.

I have no idea. Suppose it is 1 and you up that number to 5. For one day. When the legislator is in D.C.. Is this a powerful statement or just something to make people feel like they’re making a difference? If you believe it is the former then by all means you should go! If you feel it is the latter, maybe not.

Good point. I already was determined to not identify my party because that would certainly turn him against me.

We’re going to visit Rick Larsen’s [Wa.] A family outing. I was just wondering what reading material to bring along.
I’ve downloaded some of the model bills written by American Legislative Exchange council to compare them to the current slew of workers rights attack bills, pre-privatization legislation going on in our fair state.

Not a fool. Not by accident. Not weak. Obama is corrupt.

Fair enough. This is a first data point. Not a big data point, to be sure and the clock is ticking on the indicated reforms, but it’s a start. We’ll know a lot more after two or three of these things play out.

Oh, I’m going. You go ahead and stay home.

“We shall some day be heeded, and…everybody will think it was always so, just exactly as many young people think that all the privileges, all the freedom, all the enjoyments which woman now possesses always were hers. They have no idea of how every single inch of ground that she stands upon today has been gained by the hard work of some little handful of women of the past.”

Susan B. Anthony

I will be with you in spirit but I’m gonna watch paint dry instead. More exciting you see since My reps are Rep Sensenbrenner and Sen Johnson.

And a mere 70 years after the first National Women’s Rights Convention – and 14 years after Susan B. Anthony’s death – she had her victory.

Look, I’m not saying you shouldn’t go. If you believe in this cause and you have the time, knock yourself out. But keep some perspective… you’re projecting “crowds” across the nation totaling less than half the number of people who attended yesterday’s Arkansas vs. Tulsa AA baseball game.

There HAS to be a more effective method to social change.

Jane,

Really awesome appearance on C-Span today.

Think we may need to develop some kind of pledge for politicians to sign that they wont cut these programs. Cheesey like Grover Nordquist’s pledge but when in Rome…

keep up the excellent work!

You will never retire.

Progressives will vote for Democrats in 2012.

Billions will be spent to sway that few percent of undecided voters. These mindless undecided voters will decide the election because progressives will not part ways with the non-liberal Democratic party.

Over the last 40 years, Dems have stood by and allowed wages to fall by 7% while productivity has doubled. Progressives continued to vote for Dems over the last four decades. Six of ten Americans don’t vote and apparently don’t care about a current cut to their pay – these people are not going to care about a future payment.

The only hope you have for change is to vote Republican, throw the conservative Dems out, conservative policy will crash-and-burn and then rebuild from the ashes.

I think she opened the eyes of some Republicans. Go Jane!

Nothing frees up your time like being unemployed. I’ve got lots of time.
What I don’t have is a desire to sit on my ass and wait for the signal to all rise up together in critical mass, magically. Screw that.
I’ll just do it myself! And bring along any questions I have about other bills while I’m there.

I will be clean shaven, hair cut with a nice sport jacket and I will speak the truth!

Those who think that the constitution is merely a paradigm designed as a stage of strife between winners and losers are sadly mistaken. And as long as we maintain this two dimensional view of our system and of life, we will never discern the truth of the constitution’s occult meaning beyond its ‘letters’ nor operate within the spirit of its longterm aspiration. Obama is the first president that I’ve ever heard invoke the phrase e pluribus unum (out of many, one) And thus, being a constitutional scholar, he must have some understanding of its basis in unitarity/physics Thus, “we the people” shall either move together for a common purpose, or move in a state of diffused power always teetering on disintegration. In other words, we have not evolved enough to understand that self interest without cooperation between factions will only net us a neverending state of progressive dysfunction.(Fed.Papers # 10)

That being stated, Obama has always indicated that he would never undermind Social Security, nor any other social safety net. It’s just politically not in his self interest. However, if we are going to ever get out of this state of cyclic ideological stupidity, we must understand that “we the people”, either by not voting, or voting in ignorance, gave fiduciary power to those, that all should know by now, who care not about our union. Obama is just trying to play the cards he’s been dealt after “we the people” failed to govern properly by proxy!

But, but … limousine larry o’donnell told me that I’m not cool enough to understand that what appears to be happening in the debt limit negotiations isn’t what’s really happening.

Z

Well said and good on you.

I’m going like this, sans sign, but will be talking truth too.

Actually you miss the point. Reps and Senators know that most of their constituents won’t get off their butts, even if they care about an issue. So they will take that 4 or so and multiply it by hundreds.

You’re right in as much as 40 people showing up at all the offices would be even stronger, but given that they are not hearing us it is good first step.

BTW, will you be visiting your Reps office to make sure your voice is heard?

excuse me, “We the people” need to read up on current events.

Right on!

I just heard the President’s mouthpiece describe Obama’s budget team as consisting of him, geithner, jack lew, biden and bruce reed. not a single woman weighing in on these issues. and Elizabeth Warren thrown under the bus today.

How did we get to a place where a Democtatioc president surrounds himself with only male advisors? This is like the inner circle episode of the Office.

Thanks, selise. Agreed.

Bring a friend.

This is like the inner circle episode of the Office.

I see a YouTube clip and a post.

Go bearman!

pictures

That is not a point that I have missed. They will use some multiplier so if you think that it is enough to send a message that you agree with to your rep (and you have the time) then you should go. I personally don’t think 4 people showing up will have any significant impact – particularly on my representative – but I could be wrong.

Will I be visiting my representative’s office to make sure my voice is heard?

I don’t believe anyone’s voice will be heard in this effort (and I don’t have the time) so no, I won’t be visiting my representative’s office.

We organized this because people in the comments suggested it. They wanted us to do it. If you think there is a better, more effective way to have an impact, then by all means suggest it. But pouring cold water on people who do want to do this sounds an awful lot like a professional troll tactic, a way to throw a wet blanket over something that could be politically embarrassing to Democrats. I just don’t see any good motive behind it, and a lot of possible bad ones.

Moreover, your math is quite devoid of any common sense application. Internet users, particularly of political websites, tend to be heavily clustered in major metropolitan areas, primarily coastal ones. The idea that this four person “average” represents any kind of reality outside a second grade math exercise is puffery.

Ah, I see being a progressive concern troll is your business:

I’d like Progressives to matter in American politics (even where I disagree with them) but they seem incapable of making themselves relevant.

And:

What frustrates me is that (in my subjective estimation) the only “contribution” most people in here are willing to make is to serve as judge and occasionally town-crier – often on issues they’ve never bothered to seriously pursue. Everyone agrees there is a problem and that the solution is that someone else fix it! It is rare (and those exceptions are commendable!) that I see someone conclude that there is hard work that needs doing and that they will personally take on the responsibility of shouldering that burden. The rest of the time, nothing gets done.

So you piss on people for not doing enough when they speak out, and then when they do more, you say it’s not enough.

You list your interests as “Human Rights, Environmentalism, Governmental Transparency, Economics.” But you don’t actually comment on any Human Rights, Environmentalism or Government Transparency posts (and there are a lot of them). But you seem to have a deep knowledge of, and interest in defending, the pharmaceutical industry:

though they are achieving high profits, the drug companies are apparently re-investing enormous amounts of money into further R&D and use internal cash due to the high cost of borrowing money for a risky investment that could take 12 years to come to fruition.

Not a lot of people who hold that position would hang out here for fun, so the question is — are you here as a hobby, or are you here professionally?

We allow trolls who are willing to use their real names. Our tolerance for anonymous trolls grows less and less as the area professionalizes.

Jane – I am not a troll, professional or otherwise. My comments, both in this thread and others, are consistent, thoughtful and generally supportive of your efforts. I wish I knew a better approach with a more immediate impact, but I don’t. I suppose joining with other similarly-minded groups would be one option. As to my motives, I am primarily concerned that activities like this – which may have little real-world effect – will replace actual action (withholding campaign donations, running alternative candidates in primaries, etc.) by readers of this forum.

Still, if people have the time and inclination, there is likely no harm in going. My concern is that if it has no impact on the current discussions regarding Social Security and Medicare people won’t grow disheartened or feel that they’ve “done their part and nothing changes.”

Ultimately, Jane, this is your site… if my views aren’t welcome here, just say so and I’ll leave.

oh,puhhleez, spare us your concern….disheartened happened a long time ago. It’s not life threatening.

Don’t ever cut social security, medicare or medicaid. The poor, disabled and elderly will always be more important than anything anyone has in their wallets. Republicans say don’t tax the upper income earners… 39%. I say tax those making 5 million dollars or more 75%. Wall street wackos and their 150 million dollar bonuses don’t produce anything, make anything, invent anything, etc. They’re worthless. Take $112 million in taxes from them. If they can’t live on $38 million a year then they need to cut their spending or take a second job scrubbing toilets. If those people who nearly drove the economy over a cliff, got billions in bailout, created the housing foreclosure crisis and led us into record unemployment can’t be put in prison or killed then let them pay taxes. Mike

Even if they are Republican reps. it would send a message that someone is paying attention.

All views are welcome. It’s the views expressed in the service of an unacknowledged agenda, attempting to sway the conversation under the guise of “just my opinion” when someone is really here for professional propaganda purposes and disruption, that I have a problem with.

I think we should especially target Republican reps. Remember all those Tea party signs, “Keep you government hands off my Medicare”? Lots of baggers are retirees.

Jane – I’ve tried to be clear about my personal agenda, but if you have doubts about any kind of “professional propaganda purposes” (I have none) let me know and I’ll send you my contact information and we can discuss it offline.

I am primarily concerned that activities like this – which may have little real-world effect – will replace actual action (withholding campaign donations, running alternative candidates in primaries, etc.) by readers of this forum.

I was on the fence until this.

Nobody with your political views has the slightest interest in running primary challenges. Your commenting history shows you to be a center-right corporatist. You’re just being disruptive by saying what you think will fit in, what you think an appropriate “liberal” critique would be of this (or any) action. It’s a real “pro troll” tell — being unfamiliar with the arguments you’re making, and the role they play in the community.

And as for withholding campaign donations — people are going to the offices to TELL these members of Congress that they will withhold campaign donations if they vote to cut Social Security and Medicare. Rather than offering up a substantive critique of the action, you appear to be selecting off a menu you’re not terribly familiar with.

But, I’ll leave it up to the folks here. If people think you need to harden your identity (i.e. prove who you are) before you can continue commenting here, they can go and hit the “flat this member as inappropriate” link on your profile:

http://my.firedoglake.com/members/victorx/profile/

If the requisite number of people do it, you’re normally banned. But in this case, I’ll make an exception and put your comments in moderation until you provide proof of identity (an established Facebook account or other acceptable proof).

If however people don’t have a problem with it, then I don’t either. So it’s all up to the community.

As I recall there was a story here at firedog lake a while ago, about the effect that a handful of women picketing at the whitehouse had.

a “butterfly ” effect.

I am sorry, I do not recall what they were there for, but it was a successful one in the end, which had a very small start, much smaller than this one does.

and the purpose of the story being retold here, was to show, in part, that very large things, can come from small beginnings.

anyone suggesting otherwise, is foolish.

Hey, could someone post a clip of
Jane’s CNN spot this a.m.?
sorry i missed it.
and yes, my terrier and I will
pay a visit to Nydia Velasquez’s office
in the Village tomorrow.

Jane and victorx,
I consider myself a moderate conservative. I spend many hours contacting my elected officials(city,state and federal) by e-mail, and when possible at townhall meetings. I had a very lively exchange with Sen Richard Shelby at a townhall meeting in Banks, Alabama. He would have no part in leaving Social Security,Medicare, Medicaid safe from cuts. He did not get that it is the working classes 401K. He praised Cantor, Ryan, and Boehner. The sad point is that I have absolutely no influence or sway over how he votes. He is 76 years old and realizes the worst that can happen is that he loses the next election, and does what he should have already done. Retire! We have got to vote these “professional politicians” out until we get someone we can have confidence in, and understands the reality that the average American lives in. A politicians three best friends..ignorance,voter apathy,and name recognition.

You would be the perfect person to pay a visit to one of Shelby’s district offices. Planning on going tomorrow?

This is just a stupid remark. Jane is being extremely polite and diplomatic with you. I think you’re just stupid to think we would give any weight to some random doubter when we have already been successful through grassroots techniques at projecting the impact that you think we will fail to project. Take a look at CBS News’s poll released this morning and featured on the prime time broadcast tonight. Just for starters.

Jane, I am impressed and encouraged by your patience & persistence. I could not do what you do every day, esp. after your intense morning on C-SPAN Radio. victorx is just an ass.

fwiw, i don’t think anyone should be required to prove who they are or to risk banning just because of the opinion they have expressed, so long as that expression follows the rules (no hate speech, etc).

Fractal – Jane has accused me of a couple of things but I don’t take offense easily so it’s not a big deal. You’ll note, however, that I have not insulted anyone in here at all – and I don’t plan to return your name-calling either.

The post I replied to was a quote from Susan B. Anthony, in support of her approach to social change. The point of my post was the last line: “There HAS to be a more effective method to social change.” I likely don’t have 70 years to wait for change to come and I’d very much prefer it come before my death.

There HAS to be a more effective method to social change.

and i want a pony.

if you have a better idea, i’m all ears. until then i have i no intention of sitting on my ass — i’d rather do what has been proven successful even if that means a long fight and the benefits are enjoyed only by future generations.

after all, i’ve lived all of my life the beneficiary of the fights others have made. now it’s my — and your — turn to do our part.

I have given two suggestions:

1. rather than having everyone go to their individual representatives, organize larger groups (of a hundred or more) and target specific legislators who are on the fence (post 31)
2. joining with other similarly-minded groups to form a much larger presence (post 66)

and I would add a third: if you can’t find someone who will represent you the way that you want to be represented, stand for office yourself. It may be a grueling endeavor, and you’ll expose yourself to all of the unpleasantness of politics, but at least you’ll know that your voice will be heard.

But as I’ve said before, if you think it will help (and you obviously do) then that’s what you should do – regardless of how I feel about it.

No fractal, I can’t miss work. It would please me if all 2000 showed up at Eric Cantor’s office. He is not my representative, but he gives me cause for concern. Anytime a Congressman co-authors a book and calls it “Young Guns”, or something like that, makes me wonder if he can get past his ego long enough to do the nations business.

then go visit your members of Congress. Oh, and your thought that tiny little groups visiting randomly distributed district offices of small numbers of Congress people will not have an impact completely ignores the organizing purposes of the visits. To organize. When’s the last time you did anything to organize anything?

fwiw, i don’t think any congressional rep will do the right thing just because we ask nicely. but asking nicely is part of the process. it builds legitimacy in the eyes of those — ordinary people — who have yet to be won over, and it helps build momentum while getting the word out. it’s not only about demanding (not asking for) change — that usually comes much later.

we do kinda suck at strategic thinking. but that, like much of life, is on the job training. and seriously, you — and everyone else — needs to read up on social movements and the theory of people centered political power. my suggestion is to start with bill moyer’s (not moyers) book, doing democracy and then move on to gene sharp.