It seems President Obama as expected grabbed hold of the Joe Lieberman’s trial balloon and is now also pushing to raise the Medicare retirement age to 67. From Huffington Post:
According to five separate sources with knowledge of negotiations — including both Republicans and Democrats — the president offered an increase in the eligibility age for Medicare, from 65 to 67, in exchange for Republican movement on increasing tax revenues.
This would be an extremely horrible move from a policy perspective that would hurt tens of millions of Americans. It would not only increase the medical cost of for those individuals between 65-67 year of age and their employers. Such a move would also increase the Part B premiums for millions of people over 67 who are on Medicare and the increase the premiums for the millions of people under 65 who will be getting insurance on the new exchanges created by Obamacare. From the Kaiser Family Foundation (PDF):
Premiums in the Exchange would rise for adults under age 65 by three percent (an additional $141 per enrollee in 2014), on average, due to the shift of older adults from Medicare into the pool of lives covered by the Exchange.
Medicare Part B premiums would increase by three percent in 2014, as the deferred enrollment of relatively healthy, lower-cost beneficiaries would raise the average cost across remaining beneficiaries.
In addition, costs to employers are projected to increase by $4.5 billion in 2014 and costs to states are expected to increase by $0.7 billion. In the aggregate, raising the age of eligibility to 67 in 2014 is projected to result in an estimated net increase of $5.6 billion in out-of-pocket costs for people who would otherwise have been covered by Medicare.
In addition to being a horrible policy that would hurt tens of millions, while producing relatively little savings, agreeing to this bad idea would destroy Democrats current 2012 political advantage which was caused by Republicans embracing Paul Ryan’s plan to eliminate Medicare.
Approving this retirement increase just as Democrats were starting to repair the damage done with seniors as a result of voting for Obamacare would be political devastating to the party.






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email from dfa today:
1. re healthcare costs: because of the context, i’m guessing you are actually referring to fed spending on health care and NOT health care costs (national healthcare expenditures) as you did just above the bit i quoted? whichever meaning you meant, i have a request, in the future would you please try to be clear about which costs you are referring to? thanks. people are confused enough about this, no need to confuse things further.
2. the bush tax cuts did not “punch a hole in the deficit” — it was due to the post clinton bubble recession. the deficit was going to go up one way or another (due to automatic stabilizers or proactive deficit spending). the bush tax cuts were stupid and anti-progressive, but they didn’t and aren’t causing the deficit (and it’s a good thing we have the deficit spending that we do — trying to lower it is madness way beyond the standard deecee bat-shit-crazy.
I say again, ask Obama and the Repugs the following questions repeatedly until they make sense of their nonsense:
1. How will the economy grow if everyone is cutting spending?
2. Who will buy anything if everyone is cutting?
3. How will debt payments be made if economic output is falling?
The narrative of the formation of the Second Great Depression must be laid now. ANY deal signed will ensure it so why not divert some of the energy going into fighting this freight train over the cliff and lay the ground for our eventual, total, and unconditional victory?
Yesterday there was coverage about the rump group fighting back in Congress….Any more details?
So, people will have to stay at the job they don’t have for 2 more years. Pure genius
It’s bad for unemployment as well. Whoever is going to hire someone at 67, or let them continue working until 67, is going to have less jobs to offer other people. Unemployment rate is already historically the highest it’s ever been recorded for 18-24 year olds. They should be dropping the eligibility years to spur more people to retire sooner, increasing job availability, but this is 21st Century America, be rich or die.
Struthers is now referring to Obama as President- Fuck- You.
have I mentioned yet that obama is a republican elected as a democrat?
have I mentioned that he is their wet drea?
that there is no way a republican elected as a republican could possibly deconstruct our investments and assets but a republican elected as a democrat could?
have I mentioned that deconstructing ss was obama’s STATED goal even before he took office?
oh…
yea…
I did mention that
more on it at my most recent and excellent diary
obama; producer and author of “the debt issue
a must read
write in BERNIE SANDERS
he is the GOOD GRANDPA
That and the Boy in the Plastic Bubble.
You can’t get a job at 66. Soon, you won’t get Medicare. Are you supposed to buy a $10,000 a year health insurance policy from your “trust fund.”
Nobody is going to hire someone 66 and then have them added to a company group health policy, because it will raise premiums for the entire group.
many people are already putting off medical procedures and even visits to the doctor until they are 65 and will have coverage. If they have to wait a couple more years, their deaths may help relieve the other entitlement, “Social Security.”
Does it matter?
Obama, the Teabaggers, the GOP and all Very Serious People want to
cutdestroy Social Security and Medicare and they’re going to do it. Funny how Bush, with both houses of Congress on his side couldn’t touch it, but Obama can.Boy am I glad I voted Democrat!
This morning I got an email from Alan Grayson, announcing his intention to run for Congress.
I wrote back, asking him if he would consider running for President instead: We need someone with national name recognition to “primary” this lying DINO who fraudulently took our votes in ’08 and promptly fell in line with the Republican/bankster/warmonger/drugwar agenda.
We MUST “primary” Obama! If he loses–then so be it; we will have lost nothing, and will at least be in a position to blame the Republicans when the economic calamity that’s developing evolves into the inevitable catastrophe.
“Anybody But Obama 2012″
can we start saying obama is worse then bush?
I have been saying it for some time but I think it’s pretty clear to just about everyone now
we MUST actively campaign against the wolf in our midst, he is playing for THEIR team not ours
I am personally going to actively campaign for the opposition no matter WHO runs, a republican elected as a republican can not do this kind of damage
even bush could not deconstruct social security
toss that around your brain for a second
EVEN BUSH COULD NOT DECONSTRUCT SOCIAL SECURITY
now, it’s time to start getting this guy out of office and we need to begin NOW
I got an email entitled “I’m tired of it” from Steve Israel, DCCC Chairman, yesterday. He said:
Steve Israel,
The American people are tired of the game that you and Republicans are playing with our money and our lives.
You suck.
But I do have good news for your tired self. The base of the Democratic Party will rise up and take the Democratic Party back from you assholes soon enough. So you can start looking forward now to being booted, becoming irrelevant, and getting some rest.
off to the gym, see all later
knox, it’s not going to happen
now that corporations can give whatever they want, a politician becomes almost certainly corruptable
alito and roberts have done it for integrity
Keith Olbermann rip OBAMA a new one last night!
Lo Do AKA Lawrence Odonell thanks OBAMA is playing CHess with Medicare, Social Security,Medicade,
where was all this Chess playing with the Public Option, Bush Tax Cuts, Lo Do? what a moron, this is why I only watch Rachel on MSNBC
thank god Keith is back!
Actually no…. most elderly HAVE TO work until they are simply too infirm. Not only do they need the extra money, they really need the health insurance. Retirement went out with CD’s and droopy pants.
The real issue here are people who are in the “age hole”. I have a relative who literally might have died because of waiting. Many people become sick, infirm or are thrown out of the work force in their late 50′s early 60s. They just have to “hang on” until their benefits kick in. I have no doubt that my aunt would not have lived as long as she managed too had she had to tough it out for two more years.
The so-called safety net really doesnt work as well as we like to pretend. It needs expanding not chipping away at the edges.
could have not said it better
does Steve Israel is basically calling every progressive a moron
Obama put Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade on the table not the GOP
Thomas Jefferson:
We’re way overdue in this country. With all that’s happening now, I think it’s becoming unavoidable.
Peterson will send money to his re-election campaign.
The private health insurance companies will send money to his re-election campaign.
The banks who own stock in the private health insurance companies will send money to his campaign.
Those doctors who hate Medicare will send money to his re-election campaign.
Current TV is 107 in my area. I’ve already begun looking into ways to get it. Gotta call Comcast. Thanks for the reminder.
Obama is making sure the US is finished. What he’s doing now is handing Republicans everything they want with the stipulation that a tiny token increase in revenues be part of the package. Ironically, ‘token’ seems to define Obama and it’s not a racial reference.
If this rumor turns out to be true, then we’ll need to call it what it is: mass murder.
Until I hear progressives vowing not to vote for him this is all noise to me. When I see Adam,Jane,Keith, Rachel, and Ed telling progressives that voting for Obama is no different than voting for a republican and sitting out of this election is something we should do out of principle then I know they are serious. Until then all this is just noise.
Obama is an internal enemy which is far worse than any republican could be bcz he not only attacks the programs dear to us he gets us to go along with him doing it.
they simply
WORK PEOPLE TO DEATH
they lose their homes,and cars to medical costs
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/08/25/german_usa_working_life_ext2010
I’ve been thinking that a primary is the wrong approach. The democratic party is a deeply corrupt institution, and it should be confronted from the outside. I think 3rd party is the right strategy. A primary will just suck a bunch of progressive energy up in rigged Dem party politics. Let’s use our energies on something new and fresh, and fund a 3rd party presidential challenger to this monster. I think we should draft Marcy Wheeler.
PCCC Adam Greene have warned OBAMA in a big way
go visit PCCC and read their petition
If you watched KO last night, I don’t think he is a huge OBAMA fan
He all but said if OBAMA goes thru with cutting the safety net, OBAMA could expect the Bush treatment from him.
Rachel and ED work on the sometime liberal news station MSNBC. ed looked a little shaken last night?
Adam we all know is not a fan of OBAMA
and let us not for get the UNION base of the DEM party that hates OBAMA
I doubt if Keith, Jane, and Adam will ever get invited to the WH anytime soon.
At this point, we’re still in the land of speculation. Assuming that Obama really does call for a rise in the retirement age-at best the story is it’s being considered-and the effects are as dire as Jon says-on the face of it I have little appetite for raising the age either-nevertheless he doesn’t figure in the benefits in new revenue from ending corporate loopholes(which bring the corporate rate down from it’s 35% official to it’s effective rate of 17%-hence the illusion of conservative rhetoric about the U.S having the “highest corporate rates in the world”) and the triggers Obama has also discussed where if there is not tax reform by year end the top rates automatically go back to Clinton era rates.
This would free Obama up in his-I’m presuming, the dump Obama sentiment notwisthstanding-2nd term to increase investment and discreationary spending.
A world with a vast majority of Republicans in the House and Senate and a Republican POTUS is more than I can bear. Goodbye Cruel World!
So, what’s the number-one economic problem right now? Right: lack of jobs, especially for the young who are trying to enter the workforce.
And, what happens to that lack of jobs of old people are forced to hang on to their jobs for another two years? Take your time on that one ….
I will not be driven from the voting booth by Obama. This primary I will request a write in ballot and write Howard Dean’s name in.
When Pelosi said that we have three things to run on Medicare, Medicare, Medicare, she guaranteed that Obama would propose cuts to the program. He has become nothing, if not predictable.
Obama is a COA. It is all about him, all the time. Americans are desperate, and he’s pulling the rug out from under them.
Bingo.
very strange… when i made the first two comments yesterday, the post was an entirely different one than it is today.
Could you really countenance Bachmannia or Mittens Romney in office? Two religious idealogues. They would start a fourth war in Iran and probably would be well on our way to nuclear holocaust.
LOL. My brain was having great difficulty finding continuity between the blog and your comments, Selise. Figured it was just me. Color me relieved.
LOL. just now i skipped the post (figuring i had read it yesterday) to read the comments in my rss feed… and i also “was having great difficulty finding continuity” between the post i’d read yesterday and the comments being made today…. until i checked the post again and found that it had changed!
God, I wish we could do what you said. The time to start work on viable primary challenges by a single candidate within the Democratic Party was back in December 2010 or even in March 2011, but now we are out of time for that strategy. We cannot pick a single primary challenger to run in multiple state primaries, because petition-filing deadlines arrive in only months in most states. The Iowa caucuses, for example, are five and one-half months away. I think there are filing deadlines even for caucus states. FDL or dailyKos had diaries back in 2006 or 2007 that carefully studied the multiple short deadlines that all candidates had to meet to be ready for the January & February 2008 caucuses & primaries.
BERNIE FOR PRESIDENT!!!
if i understand obama’s proposal… in effect what it does is a limited version of ryan’s proposal…. it throws some seniors off medicare and onto the exchanges.
when what we should be doing is lowering the age for medicare eligibility from 65 to 60 or even 55.
more backward progress from our “progressive” president.
Cenk uyger is a good guy on there. And i know spelled his last name wrong, its a tough one.
This is getting more and more ominous. What I’m afraid’s going to happen is that Obama will capitulate to the Repugs after getting only a token “revenue raiser,” like the elimination of the subsidies to oil and gas companies or the private jet write-off. Then, we’ll be told everyone “suffered” after the rich got off scott free and the middle class, working class, and elderly got smashed. A lifelong Democract who has never not voted Democratic in a presidential election, I will not vote for Obama this go round. He’s just a Repug in ass’s clothing.
a few more hardy customers for the health insurance monopoly
(immune from anti-trust)
Those not hardy still get to keep the option of going naked or
premium death spirals if they can afford being suckered and
shaken down
The rest go to the health exchanges and we collectively pay for
everyone not spectacularly totally lucky-healthy.
What a deal. What a deal.
(Simply allowing healthy people op for a public option would
turn that dynamic upside down. All health costs are shared across
a hospital’s expenses. Everyone sooner or later needs a doctor.
This is not an unlikely event one insures against.)
It’s kind of embarrassing that even an economics wonk-genius in the mainstream press realizes that Obama really does not like Democrats.
If all of Obama’s past actions are an indicator, that is exactly what will happen.
IMO, it will make NO difference if Mittens or Bachmann or Palin are POTUS.
The PTB run the show. Obama is just their poodle, and he is doing what he’s been told by Pete Petersen, etc. It would be the same with any rightwing idealogue as POTUS. They wouldn’t be in charge, but at least then maybe some Democratic voters would wake up out of their stupors & take notice of what’s going on. Right now, most of my “Democratic” voting friends are still wildly and totally in support of Obama and utterly clueless about how their Soc Sec & Medicare are being set up to be ripped off by Obama, their frickin’ “hero.”
Just saying…
Obama playing football:
He’s at the 40! The 30! The 20! The 10! Touch…
Obama has stopped at the 10 yard line and ‘diplomatically’ handed the ball to the other side, and is now running interference against his own team as the other side approaches the end zone.
I, too, got one of those POS LIES from Israel & the DCCC yesterday. I have to admit to being a bit gob-smacked at first at the bald-faced effrontery of the LIE put forth that it’s all about the so-called “Republicans” who are set to steal Soc Sec & medicare.
Your letter back to Isreal/DCCC was much more polite than mine. I didn’t mince words. Amongst other things, I pointed out that Rahm Emanuel was wrong about me, in that I, at least, was not f*cking r*tarded enough to believe Isreal’s pernicious LIE.
FWIW… bastards. PTOUI!!!!!
The leopard does change…its spots! Obama is showing his true colors audaciously…Red, Red, Red!
Thanks a lot Barry for enabling America to implode…
Presdixent Audacity!!
I pluck my nose in your general direction…
Ding
Look at the global picture…the PTB are creating two worlds…the wealthy and the slaves. Wake up world.
You can delete them in your user main page.
He has been a placesaver all along…chosen by the PTB..to do the dirty work. We are living in a deluded, manipulated, fascist society. Elections won’t fix it.
Tell it, hoss!
Right on.
Everyone needs to get over the right v left paradigm. There are NOT two political parties anymore. There is no D v R. There is a corporatist UniParty run by the Kleptocracy. All that we see in Dee Cee is Kabuki Show and lies.
Yesterday I received the most perniciously LYING POS email from Steve Israel & the DCCC attempting to sell the bald-faced LIE that it was “the Republicans” who are to “blame” for wanting to cut Soc Sec & Medicare.
Seriously, *wasting* time “worrying” about Bachmann or Palin or Mitt or whomever becoming the next “Republican” POTUS is a waste of time.
Better to spend time figuring out how to better enhance and shore up a true third party that actually represents the lower 98%. Both the Democans and Republicrats only represent the upper 2%. There is NO difference, NONE, bet the purported “two” parties. Obama IS ripping us off right now…
Agreed. N sadly, the likely only three options are it crashes of its own volition like empire does, the people revolt, or . . . mama nature rears up and makes things MUCH worse for the whole planet.
Agree! Albeit voters can choose to write in other names and/or seriously work hard & vote for third party candidates in the meantime. That is what I propose to do.
A general strike lasting WEEKS/MONTHS would be the most effective tool that I can see at this point.
Obama is the omega of the Democratic party.
This tool of the PTB is set for life — when
in a just world he’d be held accountable for his
treachery to the people who elected him.
Things are going to get way worse before 2012.
What will it take for people to wake up?
I agree. Forget the Democrats.
We progressives need to
write in other names and/or vote third party.
Spare the write in for Bernie Sandars. It will not work no matter how good it makes you feel. What we will have in 2012 is a choice between President Trojan-Fuck-You and Candidate Insane-Assclown. Both will damage the country, greatly and one will assuredly destroy the Democratic Party in his quest to transform it into the New Republicans.
So, the choice is the slow boil of Barry-0 and his snake-oil, or the fast boil of the crazies? With the crazies you have a chance to reunite the liberals and progressives, as under Bush (which did help get Obama elected) and a chance for a national Wisconson moment. With President Fuck-You… a continuing slow slide into Fascism.
I’ll hope for Bachmann and vote for the assclown.
Agreed, both parties will damage the country.
I refuse to enable either of them.
A third party protest vote might at least
put some fear in the Trojan-Fuck-You party.
Ok — I’ll state right here that I’m not voting for Obama next year. I give the back of my hand to both parties, as they seem to be two heads of one creature.
So it’s write in or third party for me, and at the moment I’m tempted to write in John Edwards…
Who needs the GOP when you have incompetent modern day Neville Chamberlains in the White House? These people are more adept at kicking their own ass than the GOP is. They are the shittiest poker players on earth. Sheesh.
I think that’s the plan. Was it Grayson ( who’s running again, by the way) who said the republican plan was “don’t get sick and if you do, die quickly”.
Apparently that’s Obama’s position now too.
What I can’t believe is that with all these people calling their congresspeople, we aren’t in the streets already. Unfortunately, it seems the law has to be passed, or close to passing, like in Wisconsin, and THEN people get rowdy
This quote from our illustrious leader:
at one point, sources say, President Obama pushed back against the mounting menu of spending cuts while the tax column on the negotiating sheets remained blank. He asked the Republican leaders how they expected him to take their proposals seriously.
“I’m not going to do that,” Obama said. “I’m not going to take money from old people and screw students,” not without some compromise on the tax-increase side.”
http://bit.ly/qeGPV7
So if he gets some compromise on the tax-increase side he will take money from old people and students. Unfuckingbelievable. What a shrill.
That’s true, the longer Obama is int here, the more he destroys the party.
I now would have preferred McCain, with the super majorities Obama squandered in the first two years.
But, I fear it may be too late as O put all the activists to sleep for at least two years ( which was the plan) and there are many who still think it’s the Republicans holding up his purity of action.
I don’t know what my 96 year old aunt is going to do, she needs nursing home care but she can’t sell her home and now this. she’s sharp too. the only one in my family I can stand
How’s he going to resolve this? With the IMF leaning on the US and the R’s not budging. Will he do an executive order? or will our “government” just let the whole thing come crashing down?
I think that would be better than this fake “safety net has to cut/gutted” crap they’re trying to pull. Let everyone see what happens. They won’t, of course, because that would REALLY wake people up
in response to Kassandra@66
“But, I fear it may be too late as O put all the activists to sleep for at least two years ( which was the plan) and there are many who still think it’s the Republicans holding up his purity of action.”
so true. This is the tragedy…
Oh, he will eventually give up and take the money without any tax increases. He knows what he is doing, so, as far as I’m concerned, he is worse than bushie and bushie was the worst. It really doesn’t matter if a repug gets elected in ’12, in fact, we may be better off. I can see that we would have been better off if the repugs had won in ’08. Apparently the repug plan was not to win so the DINO could destroy the country.
When Democrat = Republican, when are we not going to be in that situation? When the Republicans win they win and when they lose they still win. Why is any “progressive” voting for either one?
Now that we are LOL’ing about the lame beg letters coming out from the DCCC and other party “organs,” does anyone want to hear the pathetic lies in today’s OFA fund-raiser mailing?
I am not a Republican, but I talk with enough of them on a daily basis to have an idea what (at least some) are thinking. I’m not advocating these positions… just letting you know where they are coming from.
Two points: 1. there is not “one economy” to grow and 2. not everyone will cut spending. Government involvement in non- or less-productive areas of the economy cause some parts to grow artificially at the expense of others. By reducing government participation, the market mechanism would move capital to where it is most efficient. Republicans tend to favor the Austrian or Chicago Schools of Economics as opposed to Keynesian Economics… so talking to them about Aggregate Demand as though it is some settled fact or immutable law won’t get too far (note: this is not a “stupid” position… Nobel Prize Winners in Economics come down on both sides of this issue).
Republicans generally believe that government involvement distorts markets (making them less efficient). By curtailing government involvement, they believe that market forces will restore economic output. In the meantime, Republicans point out that there is plenty of revenue brought in through taxation to cover outstanding debt payments.
They are going to raise the debt ceiling because the Wall Street masters won’t allow the USA to default. Everything else is bullshit and I think they are trying to see how much they can push through the Congress. Shock Doctrine 101. IMHO
You have no argument from me. Everything is going according to plan. Nothing to see here. This shit has been going on for a 100 years.
You’re definitely right about Ed looking a little shaken. I think he is starting to have a tough time justifying Barry’s actions.
Here is what would happen. The Corporate Tax rate would be reduced from 35% down to 17% and certain corporate tax loopholes might be eliminated. I say “might” because we have already seen with so-called health care “reform” and financial “reform” how quickly the lobbyists come in and stop real reform. The message on health care “reform” was too relax, this is just the beginning. Same for financial reform. The truth is that anything which might “hurt” corporations or the wealthy never occurs. Even if some of the tax loopholes were eliminated, lobbyists and Congress would find new ways to get them back in place, except under new language. So, the final result would be further tax cuts for corporations, an increase in medicare eligibility age, and cuts to social security. This is not Democratic policy, it’s neo-liberal policy.
If the Republicans believe that government involvement distorts markets (making them less efficient), then why did they fight so hard to PREVENT the elimination of subsidies to oil companies?
I think they’ll be OK with that.
I’d rather watch a baseball game or go to the beach than spend an afternoon with Obama. He more than likely will chastise me for being too liberal and that I should accept Social Security cuts and just STFU and vote Dem in 2012.
Life is too short to waste on bastards.
I can’t speak for any particular Republican and no group with so many members should be lumped into a single position. I know many rank-and-file Republicans who were in favor of eliminating subsidies for oil companies.
With regard to particular Republican politicians, some voiced the opinion that they would end those subsidies as part of a larger “get government out of business completely” effort. They are politicians, of course, and so they would likely be against hurting ONLY those companies that support them.
But that’s the way politics goes. Ideologically they may be against corporate subsidies, but they aren’t willing to lose their job by addressing only their half of the problem.
And there you have it…the real problem. Congressional representatives (includes both parties) are more concerned with their own power and campaign contributions than actually doing the work to represent the people of this country as a whole. As for the rank and file Republicans you speak with, did they actually contact their representatives and tell them to eliminate subsidies for oil companies or did they go along with the hypocrisy?
Note how they say costs and premiums will go up for individuals if they raise the Medicare qualification age.
Consider the alternative: If the age were, in fact, lowered to 55 or 50, and all that money currently being directed into insurance company profits was instead repurposed to Medicare buy-ins or premiums, would not all those relatively healthy people tend to drive overall costs LOWER? And that logically, having Medicare for All as a baseline fundamental right for all Americans, would result in dramatically lower costs, higher survival rates and better overall health.
Oh yeah — impossible because it would curtail the corporate parasites.
In addition, people might consider retiring at a reasonable age instead of having to work until they are 80 because they are scared about being wiped out financially if they get sick. A healthy retiree is more likely to be involved in society…volunteering, traveling, etc.
Your republican friends are morons to believe this tripe.
The intrinsic problem with these positons is “Captial” is not the only measure of what is needed for life, and a life worth living. That is why markets, which are never free, BTW, but always involve some rules set by various players and/or government. They are not intrinsicaly fair or benefical to the average person unless there is a strong enough palyer to insure that–that would be government Of, For and By the People. It’s very clealy laid out in the preabmble to our Constitution, where is is explained why this document and country has come into being:
Welfare is Capitlaized, BTW, which meant the founding fathers considered it very important. A quaint notion to morons, but there it is.
Mr. Obama has obviously decided two contradictory things. He has had enough and, like Sarah Palin, wants to leave his current job with a self-inflicted embarrassment, and to take his party out with him.
He wants to stay in the White House more than anything in the world, but feels that he no longer needs voters to keep him there. He can do it by doing a Bush, by serving only his corporate clientele.
With politicians like him, average Americans should hope it’s the former, not the latter.
I don’t know which Republican friends of mine called and which did not. I know some feel that calling or protesting isn’t effective but they may have withheld funding. I simply don’t know the answer to your question.
My friends who are Republican do not confuse capital with what is needed for life or what makes life worth living. Some are in favor of significant government aid (at least in some cases) and others are even in favor of substantial public ownership (parks, libraries, etc.) – but all of them agree that government participation in markets distort them, leading to inefficiencies. Many of them dedicate both time and money to charitable causes. That is, what you have demonstrated is not an intrinsic problem with their position so much as a reliance on false stereotypes for yours.
None of the Republicans I know are anarchists and none are in favor of zero regulation. They are against the government picking winners and losers based upon who lines their pockets.
My Republican friends support some forms of governmental oversight – particularly through the court system. What they don’t support is cronyism, which is what they feel they are seeing today. Whether something is fair or beneficial to the average person speaks to an ideological difference. Most on the Right are more concerned about fairness in the sense of Equality of Opportunity – Freedom to Pursue Your Own Happiness – rather than Equality of Outcome.
Yes, the Founding Fathers considered the general welfare of the people of the United States to be vitally important. The question is, what is meant by “general welfare”? While the Supreme Court has found the Preamble relevant for some purposes, it has specifically rejected using it to support your interpretation. The Taxing and Spending Clause also speaks of general Welfare and a great deal of analysis (for both sides) has been done there. I recommend you look there rather than imagining “it’s all so obvious”.
What your made-up stereotypes of “republican Friends” support is what most people support. Whoop-de-doo. Cronyism is not desired in any system, except for those gaining from cronyism. Yet, that is a part of human nature, which is why markets need better regulation and oversight. People don’t like intrusive government interference in markets, (or most things in life) but they all want to be protected from predation (except maybe the morons). Really, though, you are making up straw men here, presenting them as “republicans” — fuck them all as far as I am concerned — when it could apply to anyone, in general.
Your big problem is “free markets” and not being able to contemplate the falsehood of the meme. They are not free, never have been, never will be. So, the question is how do you make them fair and for whom–the average person, small business, mega-corporation, etc. This goes then to the whole purpose of the government that has been established. Our was fairly unique for its day in that it did not derive from god ordained royalty.
The basic flaw here is “equality of opportunity” when life is not equal from day one so how can opportunity be equal?. You other flaw is the old canard of “Equality of Outcome”. The left/progressives are not communist. There are basic needs people require to live in the environment. Ours is more than a jungle, or hunter/gatherer society. You need food, clothing, shelter, education, protection from predators, etc. You need enough to build a life not just to survive by, but a life worth living. I want a society that is less concerned with how much shit you can gather and own for yourself at the expense of everyone else. So, the real question is are you for a “me” society or a “we” society?
Spare me the rest of you nicely phrased bromides intended to put lipstick on the republican/conservative pig (e.g. “Many of them dedicate both time and money to charitable causes.”… so what? Paste a gold star on their heads). I really find it pathetic. As for government, well, it has been badly corrupted by the uber-wealthy CONservatives over the last 50 years, that is very clear to more and more these days. They regrouped after the shellacking of the Great Depression, WWII and FDR putting the boot on their greedy necks. They came back strong under the guise of the cold war to spread their poisons. The republicans have served that agenda very well, and the democrats are being corrupted to it more and more. Still, I will put my lot with government or We the People and not some “free market” which is just another term for who has most leverage to bend the market to their favor.
As far as the preamble’s “general Welfare”, you can cut it 10 ways to Sunday and talk all you want about how courts have interpreted it, but in the end, it’s pretty basic. One paragraph lays out the whole that is to follow; it explains why in no uncertain terms and lists the reasons with Welfare capitalized – a big point they were making. It’s not complex and it is profound, unless you want to minimize it to justify your greed and selfishness. Who made it? WE THE PEOPLE. Get back to basics, stop trying knobjob republicans as an abstraction while trying to defend CONservatisim – just another movement to preserve the status quo of the haves at the expense and exploitation of the have-nots.
As FDR once said: