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Most of the thought experiments related to using the 14th Amendment to deal with the deb ceiling impasse have revolved around what would happen if President Obama were to choose to just declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional and who, if anyone, would have standing to challenge his constitutional interruption. To really understand how legitimate the 14th amendment option is, it important to also think what would the outcome in a reversed situation where government contractors, employees, bond holders, soldiers, doctors, senior citizens, etc… all could, in theory, have standing to constitutionally change a failure to raise the debt ceiling.
Imagine i,f instead of the House Republicans posturing, they simply declared they won’t raise the debt ceiling under any conditions, regardless of the concession Democrats were prepared to make. In this scenario also picture that the Obama administration was trying to still operate under the debt limit after it is reached. Eventually some group of people who where previously promised money by the government won’t get paid as a result. What do people think would happen a group of these bond holders, individuals on government pension and government contractors eventually filled suit on the basis of the 14th amendment?
I simply can’t see how the Supreme Court could fail to rule in their favor. It is pretty clear section 4 of the 14th amendment was written was the expressed purpose of prevent such a scenario.
Anyone who has been watching the Roberts Court should see they have a clear pro-business bias. Does anyone honestly believe the Roberts Courts would come up with a non-literalist interruption of the 14th amendment that would allow for default and as a result cause significant damage to a huge sections of the business community?
I don’t just think the President could “get away” with using the 14th amendment solution because no one would want to challenge it. It would seems in any plausible scenario where the constitutionality of the debt ceiling would actually be challenged, that the Supreme Court could not s strike it down, because it is unconstitutional.
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What do people think would happen a group of these bond holders, individuals on government pension and government contractors eventually filled suit on the basis of the 14th amendment?
The GOP is trying to get around this legal problem by cutting SS benefits, Medicare Government expenses before the Government goes Bankrupt. The GOP does not care if the Supreme Courts decides that one class of debt SS, Medicare is inferior to business debt just look at Bush vs Gore the Supremes are Sock Puppets of the GOP and can be expected to vote the Right way.
The GOP wants to avoid this matter getting to the courts by getting Obama to agree to it before it gets to the courts this gives them an issue more voter dissatisfaction to run on in the fall.
Like it or not the Buck does stop with Obama and if Voters are dissatisfied Obama gets the blame.
Obama hopes that the GOP will get the blame but the GOP will borrow from Reagan and ask Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?
Some debt business debt is more equal than other Debt I’m sure the GOP is already pushing this line after all the Government owes SS and Medicare debt to themselves so they rationalize that Congress has the power to cut payment of that debt since its a government expense owed to the government and not an outside party.
Voters voted for Republicans just what did they expect Republicans to do when in office? Its not like the GOP hasn’t been talking about getting rid of SS and Medicare for years.
Notice AZ cut state spending to Transplant Patients that was a trial balloon were there any legal challenges to that? Voter outcry yes
I don’t think it’s such a big stretch to envision current SCOTUS upholding the debt limit law despite how some/many are reading the 14th amendment.
The 14th speaks of authorized debt (shall not be questioned), and the Executive long ago bought into the notion that authorized debt is controlled by the numerous previous incidences of Congress passing and the Executive signing a debt limit (increase).
Much decisional law (case law, binding appellate ruling, the latter describing all SCOTUS holdings) is based on practice, especially where there is a gap or conflict in statutory law. This SCOTUS could easily rule the current practice, as heretofore agreed by the parties (Cong & Exec) should prevail.
The 14th Amendment argument is not applicable to the debt ceiling. The 14th Amendment only requires that existing debts be honored, not new debts incurred. This means that principal and interest be paid on existing debts, including contractor payables as well as bonds and treasury bills. Servicing this debt can be achieved using only a small portion of ongoing tax receipts. If the debt ceiling were to be reached and a court challenge made I expect the courts would simply order existing debts be serviced before any other expenditures. As much as I sympathize, the progressives who are resting hope on a constitutional challenge are grasping at straws.
Congress can if I read you right cut future debt SS, Medicare then from people who are not getting benefits yet but still run a debt with war funding? If so then they are very evil for selling cutting SS and Medicare as a way to cut the National debt as war spending keeps the debt rising.
The GOP really does not care about the future after all if America denies one class of debt America can deny any class of debt. Who is to say that in the future Congress denies payments not just on future debt but debt to terror sponsoring nations or nations with human rights violation’s (China Tibet, Chinese Muslims, ).
Countries at war with us China over Taiwan, China over Japan making the ocean radioactive the Japanese just caught a whale that was sick with radiation China and North Korea both fish in the area and North Korea was starving last I heard already. Japan seems to have no time time table to stop the radiation from leaking so its only a matter of time before war happens.
Does Libya own any American debt whats to stop Congress from deciding that Libya, Syria etc don’t need to get paid?