When basically the entire House Republican caucus voted for Paul Ryan’s budget, which includes a “plan” to destroy the very popular Medicare program and replace it with insufficient private vouchers, I couldn’t tell if they made such a terrible political move because they were so trapped in their own ideological bubble that they actually thought Americans wanted to eliminate Medicare, or they were so ideologically driven that they were determined to push radical right-wing social engineering despite it being highly unpopular.
Politico reports it is was mainly the latter. The Republicans were warned it was a horrible political move but did it anyway:
The poll numbers on the plan were so toxic — nearly as bad as those of President Barack Obama’s health reform bill at the nadir of its unpopularity — that staffers with the National Republican Congressional Committee warned leadership, “You might not want to go there” in a series of tense pre-vote meetings.
But go there Republicans did, en masse and with rhetorical gusto — transforming the political landscape for 2012, giving Democrats a new shot at life and forcing the GOP to suddenly shift from offense to defense.
This was a truly insane move. It is one thing to be willing to accept a political backlash as the price of pushing through big changes you think are important, but taking a politically toxic vote on a bill that has zero chance of becoming law is just absurd.
Normally, the Republican party taking a principled, unpopular vote that let the American people know what the GOP’s true goals are would at least gain them some respect from me and others for its honesty. But since they spent the entire 2010 campaign completely lying about their intention to “protect” Medicare from cuts, this vote just carries the extra politically toxic sting of also proving that House Republicans are dishonest and hypocritical.
The fact that over 200 professional politicians would make such an worthless and politically toxic move is truly mind boggling.





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Thanks Jon.
My guess is that the Big Pharma and the AMA are flexing their influence with the corporate media. We need a lot more coverage of this.
Well, this is not supposed to be political, but the right thing to do..but no worries. The program will soon, implode under it’s own weight.
The Rs are schmart. They’re going to let the Ds destroy it for them, and the Ds are gonna try to hide behind the Rs.
Hot potato game comes to mind.
Mensch Jon – what are you talking about. This plan was brilliant – The best idea the Republicans had for a long time and I love this plan – It is the greatest plan EVER!!! – and we should support it with all we got!!!
(Good Lord, when will we ever learn!)
I don’t think they’re “ideological” at all.
They’re corrupt, and do what is in the best interests of their corporate overlords.
The insurance industry has paid them to try to cripple Medicare, and that’s what they are trying to do. [notice I said "are", not "were"]
Being “Ideology-Obsessed” isn’t inherently bad. Disregard for ideology gives us corporatist Democrats who are “pragmatic,” nationlize Romneycare, give us the Obama/Bush tax cuts, extending the Patriot Act, continuing indefinite detention, etc etc etc. I think the problem is usually a lack of ideology, rather than too much ideology.
Whatever the latest dumbass move the Republicans make NEVER seems to stick for very long and they know it. They consistently play to their far right ideological base even on losing issues they know are unpopular and they get re-elected anyway.
With Medicare, as with everything else, such as war, jobs, bank bailouts, tax cuts for the rich, et al, both parties are ignoring the will of the people. Neither’s hands are clean.
That’s what is happening here. Hot potato. The dialogue is in play from both sides. Now the constituents of either party will only remember the he said/she said crap and stick to the talking points regardless of the outcome.
This was a carefully organized stunt to allow blame for both parties while still destroying Medicare. Phase 1 complete.
the poli s are letting corporate America empty the pockets of the middle class.there is NO disposable income in the USA
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Jon Walker:
“…proving that House Republicans are dishonest amd hypocritical.”
Well, who’d a thunk it? But seriously Brother Jon, would the fascists really earn your respect by doin’ something that exposed their true goals and values??!! Isn’t that what they have been doin’ for about 130 years? I for one wouldn’t respect Adolph Hitler any more if he had publically annouced his plan for the “final solution”. But seriously, the collateral damage that they have done extends to the corporatist Democrats and the village idiots because now every American knows that his/her support for “liberal” social and political values is shared not just by a majority but by a super majority and the neo-liberals will play hell tryin’ to eliminate the progressive infrastructure that supports healthy democracy and democratic capitalism.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, A FASCIST IS A FASCIST IS A…
Let’s not forget the finer points of KABUKI. Just a few years ago, when Bush was on his way out, the GOP’s obituary was written. Then Obama rode a wave up into power and Democrats made sure to do their part to revive the GOP as an equal dance partner.
Health care “reform” resulted in great enhancements of the profits of the private health care providers.
This latest effort to channel our dollars for Medicare into the hands of private health care providers will ultimately achieve the same result: great enhancements of the profits of the private health care providers.
And the GOP will be just fine politically. The Democrats will make sure of it.
i hate to sy it,but the system is totally broken and beyond fixing…like pavlovian dogs,the conditioned response is already in affect
Oh, besides, when was Politico a reliable source for any piece of information. Sheesh.
once they got merkins using their credit cards to pay healthcare expense,the game was over
As if the D’s were smarter with HCR, failing with lack of single payer (or public option), and mandates
Equally apples to BOTH parties.
Equal opportunity for all of us. We are equally poorly served.
Half of all bankruptcies are already related to medical bills, or at least they were before the housing crisis.
So we let them take our homes away from us.
Now it’s time to let them take our medical care.
Yep. The new meaning of equality in the U.S.
General Physician Job Average Salary
Country Net Monthly Income constant 2005 US$ [a] [d] Notes, Source Gross Monthly Job Income Compulsory Deductions Weekly Hours
U.S. average salary PPP $ 8,189 $ 8,189 Family and general practitioners, standardized hours (2,080 hours/year), 2005. U.S. Department of Labor, [t]. 11,698 dollars 30%
Taiwan average income PPP $ 5,388 $ 2,885 Full-time and part-time employees, 2004. National Statistics Republic of China, [9]. 112,658 dollars 17% 40.5
UK median salary PPP $ 5,210 $ 6,045 Employees, 2005. UK Employment Department, [9], [t]. 5,106 pounds 35% 40.0
Japan average salary PPP $ 4,594 $ 5,401 Excl. overtime and bonus, June 2005. Men only. Private establishments with 10 or more regular employees. Japan Statistical Yearbook [17], [k]. 761,000 yens 22%
Australia average income PPP $ 4,164 $ 4,087 Average of dentist and general physician, May 2004. Normal hours from collective agreements. Australian Bureau of Statistics, [9], [t]. 7,480 dollars 28% 44.4
Singapore average salary PPP $ 3,843 $ 3,523 Employees, private sector, 2004. Ministry of Manpower, [9], [t]. 7,607 dollars 24%
France median salary PPP $ 3,620 $ 2,843 Médecins et assimilés, full-time employees, 2002. Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques, [36]. 2,770 euros 0%
Finland average salary PPP $ 3,177 $ 3,794 Normal hours of work, 2004. Men only. Women make 4,347 euros per month. Statistics Finland, [9], [k], [t]. 5,107 euros 42% 38.0
Italy average salary PPP $ 3,051 $ 3,294 Normal hours of work, 2005. Average of general physician and dentist, Istituto Nazionale di Statistica, [9]. 4,336 euros 39% 38.0
Thailand average salary PPP $ 2,936 $ 937 Men employees, 2005. Women make 25,130 bahts per month. Thailand National Statistical Office, [9], [t], [s]. 41,358 bahts 9% 52.0
Kuwait average income PPP $ 2,371 $ 2,960 Men employees, 2004. Kuwait Ministry of Planning, [9]. 845 dinars 0% 49.0
Portugal average salary PPP $ 1,984 $ 1,591 Employees, 2003. Instituto Nacional de Estatística, [9]. 1,720 euros 23% 36.3
Czech Republic average income PPP $ 1,471 $ 961 Excl. bonuses, 2005. Czech Statistical Office, [9]. 32,349 korunas 29% 40.2
Romania average salary PPP $ 838 $ 430
and at the highest price in the world,we should be getting the greatest care…………………………………………………………………………………………………………….ha
simply put…for profit healthcare means…major ripoffs EVERYWHERE you look
Hey, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Couldn’t happen to a better bunch.
yeah, it sucks. But, we all can’t afford to fly somewhere else for affordable treatment. I can’t even afford to espouse an elitist attitude.
Yet, I’m hanging in here.
dont buy insurance,and you have $$$ to leave the country for real healthcare…
Facts not in evidence. Plus, I have people I choose to take care of here. You don’t know what I pay for dental insurance. I don’t know what you paid for you airfare. Let’s leave it at that.
did you hear my story on my dentist telling me here i need 2 root canals at 900 a piece…it was a total LIE…. 1800 dollars is NOT chump change…then what about the cap?
have you not heard of Healthcare Vacations….check it out
The rich are getting the greatest care in the world.
some on OUR dime
see Richard Cheney of Darthdom
I just had a ton of dental work done, including a root canal. After the insurance, my bill was $333.00. And, my dentist is the best. Hands down. So, there are other factors, probably. Maybe you need to consult a different dentist.
as long as we dont raise a rukus,our march to the bottom will continue
you are a tiny minority in this country,how many peeps ya think have dental ins?
Our elected “representatives” at the fed level, and many at the State & local levels, get the best health care in the world for themselves and their spouses for LIFE (even if they’re booted out in disgrace most of the time)… all courtesy of YOU and ME, the taxpayer. But let the “small people” seek to obtain even “reasonable” health care, and it’s all libertarian bull hockey all the time.
For the politicians, it’s 150% about: I got MINE, EFF you!
I don’t think they are stupid at all. I think they are going to pull it off. A few of them may lose an election, but there are plenty more to replace them. All this over-confident mocking instead of fighting is going to lose the issue for the democrats as usual. The most important thing to realize is that the force behind this is not crazy ideology, but big money, money that is big enough to buy whatever they want, even the congress and the president of the united states.
I’d guess that any medical procedure in the U.S. that costs over $1500 out of pocket can pay for airfare, lodging, procedure, much better service, and hugely better lifestyle to have it done in France?
Oh, I’m pretty sure plenty do. If they so chose. That’s not me saying I don’t see the problem with doctors, pharmautical BS.
I just don’t appreciate being lectured, without personal knowledge of who I am or data.
Don’t won’t to argue with you. Clearly, our experiences are different.
I’m still wondering why the elistists weren’t all raptured to France.
I am very lucky to have pretty decent dental insurance. I pay for it via my job, but it’s a large group plan. So I believe my annual “fee” for the ins is less than $1000. Still on the high end. I haven’t had a root canal in a while, but I broke a tooth last year and needed a crown.
Even with my dental ins, the crown (and related work) cost me – out of pocket – $500. And I felt lucky, as the dentist warned me that some ins companies would’ve changed – out of pocket – $1000 (in addition to the insurance).
Dental ins really varies. A lot of dental work simply isn’t covered. Again, I thank my lucky stars bc I have enough $$ to cover stuff. But I’ve probably paid close to $20k over the past 2 decades (20 years) for various dental work out of pocket, even while having dental insurance. I’ve had to get several implants, and these are almost never covered by ins.
Just saying…
thats why they dont care about you and me
a small snipet
Will It Be There When You Need It?
What about when you need some work done? In a really bad year, your dentist may inform you that you need a couple of fillings, a root canal and a crown. On top of that, you’ll still have to pay for your usual cleanings, exams and x-rays. This is the time to be insured, right? Unfortunately, your insurance may not be as helpful as you’d expect. Many dental insurance plans have very low annual maximums of around $1,000 (this will vary by plan and by provider, of course). This means that once your dental bills exceed $1,000 in any given year, you’re stuck paying the rest of the bills in full.
You may still pay a lower negotiated fee for the work you need as a benefit of having insurance, but even the negotiated fees are quite high. For example, if the dentist’s regular fee for a filling is $150, the negotiated fee might be $100. In this situation, your regular oral maintenance and fillings will use up most or all of your annual maximum, so only a fraction of your large dental work bill will actually be covered. You’re likely to still pay $1,000 to $2,000 out of pocket, plus your annual $600 in premiums. On top of that, while you may pay 0-10% in co-pays on preventive maintenance and 20% in co-pays on fillings, the co-pay on expensive procedures like root canals tends to be a whopping 50%. Even if you haven’t used up your annual maximum by the time you need the expensive procedure, you’ll still have to pay several hundred dollars for it.
Dental insurance also rarely covers expensive procedures like orthodontics and cosmetic dentistry, even if you try to argue that you need a procedure to alleviate emotional pain and suffering. When insurance does cover them, the annual maximums still often prevent you from saving very much, if anything, after you factor in your biannual cleanings and exams.
…we are CONDITIONED to feel lucky!
Didn’t know the elitists were talking about being raptured. Link?
Bingo! Sadly, I agree.
France wouldnt have them…too untasty……………g
sure! why should they? there are NO bad consequences or outcomes for them. who cares about “voters”??? they scoff at us daily. we are less than insignificant.
yup…but we still feel lucky!and we love our overpaid MDs and Dentists
Guess I can’t afford to talk to you either. Really, missy.
this also includes all their family members…just sayin
im not lecturing…oh well horse to water …etc
Yes, I quite agree. While I was writing my comment, it sort of *pained* me to say “I’m lucky.” Really: why should I feel “lucky” when such services, if truly needed, should be provided?? Esp when I already HAD insurance.
Quite honestly, I would prefer NOT to pay for dental ins. I’ve gone for years without it, and I think I come out pretty much “even” in either case. My exp with dental ins is that it rarely covers most of the “big” items; that’s usually on you, no matter what.
My exp is that the dental ins I had mainly covered the annual exams, Xrays, cleanings and maybe, like, ONE filling. And then: bingo! Pay the rest yourself.
I’m forced in my current job to pay for dental insurance, although I get something extra on top of my salary to cover that cost… so in essence, to be really truthful/factual: I get some extra money from my job to pay for dental ins. I think it’s a rip-off. I don’t find it worthwhile.
JMHO, of course.
How very kind of you.
just putting some facts and musings out there
perhaps. not sure. it may only extend to dependents, but then when they become adults: no. But I’m not 100% sure about what/who is covered. Whatever it is, though, it’s too much, and it really pisses me off!!
i nearly fell over when the Dentist in France said my bill was 25 E including filling,and xray,and script…i tried not to act like i hit the LOtto…but what was the TRUTH worth to me,who has TMJ…that i would not have to go for 2 or 3 days of them ripping my mouth apart?
in the end everybody does whats good for them,but why limit yourself to USA choices?
I went to a dentist in germany for a broken tooth after traveling for a year with a backpack thru asia. He didn’t charge me *anything* to fix the tooth, including a crown. Zip. Nada. Don’t know why, but I didn’t argue, just “Danke, Danke Vielen Vielen Dank!”
This was about 20 years ago; not sure if I’d get the same thing now. German dentist didn’t seem to think it was such a big deal and was very gracious about doing the work on my tooth.
That said, when I haven’t had dental ins, I have had US dentists, who’ve been willing to “work with me” on the costs for their services. Still not cheap, but I think a bit less than the Ins rate (or so it seemed).
Lot of citizens go to Mexico for various procedures bc of costs. It can be a bit of a crap-shoot doing that. I have heard some real *horror* stories, but if you know who to see, I’ve heard about some very good and inexpensive outcomes. But I live part-time in Southern CA, so it’s easier to get to Mexico. Depends on where you live.
Amazing…they see you in pain,and react with caring…makes me feel good to feel human again!! nice story,just when i was hoping to turn into a horse
i heard Canada is good too…how about i was lied to ,in my city….i DONT need 2 root canals….in one tooth ,there are no roots
most people on the blogs ,have been very helpful providing names etc…my hope is that everybody gets the care they need
I’ve gotten second opinions re dental work. If something doesn’t seem right, then it’s worth the cost to ask someone else.
I’ve had what I consider scam dentists want to “fix” what was called TMJ in a very weird – and very very expensive – way. I got both a second and third opinion. Although I have issues with my bite – a result of orthodontia work in the ’50s, which wasn’t the greatest – all I really needed was a mouth guard to use when I sleep.
I might add, though, that dental-made mouth guards cost a lot of money, too, but certainly far less than the invasive procedure that the scam Dentist first suggested.
Amen.
I also experienced a horror-show at an HMO dentist. This was with a prior job, and the only ins offered was with an HMO dentist plan. The dentist office, staff and procedures were HORRIBLE. I couldn’t believe how BAD it was. I had to *insist* that the staff really clean off the chair, the light fixture, etc, and I was nearly afraid that they’d start doing the cleaning without gloves on (not all that long ago; AIDS was a real fact of life at that point).
I managed to survive, but that’s when I canceled that ins policy and went without ins. No other option, but I did better without ins. That’s another thing people have to be concerned with: what quality of care are they getting on some dental ins programs? Some are *horrid.*
seems they forgot the oath….first….do no harm
The fact that over 200 professional politicians would make such an worthless and politically toxic move is truly mind boggling.
Not really. The endgame for politicians nowadays is not necessarily re-election. They can look forward to K St. lobbying and law firm jobs, to think tank positions, and to Fox News commentator slots.
And a politician would be foolish to jeopardize such opportunities merely to get re-elected.
The right moves the Overton window and plays the long game. Once you’ve said in public that Medicare should be destroyed, you can’t unsay it. The view becomes part of the discourse, an acceptable position for people to hold. Weak, corporate, compromised and conservative Democrats then rally around a substantial degradation of Medicare, which then becomes the position of the ‘left’. In the short run, we end up in the ‘middle’, with significant cuts to coverage and increasees in costs to the insured. In the long run, Medicare is eliminated.
Yes, it is politically dangerous in the short run, for politicians to advocate an end to Medicare. But the right takes care of its own. Places await them in think tanks and univerities if they should stumble electorally. And one day, they will win.
exactly…what some people dont know,is that the health of your veins and arteries are directly correlated to your mouth and gums….Dentistry should not be apart from total healthcare imo
yup,all with great percs for life
we must be ADAMANT and demand our rights to the public health of the nation
As we screw the poor and aged so as to avoid raising taxes:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/05/v-print/113759/this-fact-may-not-sit-well-americans.html
From the above:
Total federal revenues in 2007 at 14.4 percent of GDP and expenditures at 25.3 percent.
Of total federal revenues, 81 percent of which come from income and payroll taxes, 9 percent from corporate taxes, 3.5 percent from excise taxes and 6.5 percent from other sources.
The post-World War II historic average is that federal revenues equal about 18 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product, the broadest measure of annual economic production. In the year 2000, after the longest economic expansion in U.S. history, federal revenues equaled almost 21 percent of the economy.
The top 1 percent paid 39.5 percent of all U.S. income taxes in 2007 — but taxes take a smaller share of their wealth today than historic post-World War II norms – we take more tax at the top because there is more income at the top – but the top 1% had effective tax rates at 29.5% of “taxable income” (a term that is much smaller than total income), and the top 20% was getting an effective tax rate of 25.1% (all 2007 results) – the lowest in my memory since WW2.
They’ve been coming down for everybody, but we’re taking more income at the top. Even if their rates are lower than they used to be, you are applying those lower rates to much larger income.
Wonder why this has not made it to the AP/CBC/NBC/ABC 6 o’clock news shows.
back to 39% the lawyers doctors bankers dentists wont miss it…honestly
wow, I work for a large company and pay for the most coverage I can get, I have the best dental plan the 10K plus size company I work for can offer and there’s no way I could get all that done for 330$ with ANY dentist…no way maybe one crown but I doubt it…
Yes. We are our only hope.
yes…we are…all of us in pain,or suffering ,or in need….need to demand better
an implant would have cost me 2000 u s….but that would require 2 flights,so about the same expense
today i was thinking also…everybody goes to work in this country regardless if they are sick or not…they spread their germs to their coworkers who bring it home to their families…thanks TIM for your stinkin head cold…just what me and your dad needed/
With my dental insurance 3 fillings and a root canal for my daughter are going to cost us at least $1600. Insurance is slowly trending toward a coupon club, not actual coverage. Instead of getting a real benefit you get a discount within a select group of doctors.
thats big bux…sorry
My wife and I payed into a dental insurance program for thirty years. She had to have surgery on her gums and teeth, to make a long story short the bill was 40 grand the insurance would only pick up 2 grand because it was surgery and not just a tooth problem. So I guess your gums aren’t part of you dental package.
If I was a left leaning blog. I would go out of my way to make this the issue for the 2012 election. At the same time I would also do my utmost to have liberals elected to even the most red states for the senate. Texas, Arizona and Maine are some that spring to mind. Just in case a massive scare campaign works. The tea party are doing their best in Maine to wreck the Republicans brand name. See here: http://www.downeast.com/the-tipping-point/2011/may/interpreting-approval
Spot on analysis – only true because the US Media wants it to be true – but then, the US Media DOES want it to be true.
The media sell out is complete – the “liberal media” is just the GOP LITE side of the corporate media.