Tweet
What was obvious in the Pentagon’s press conference yesterday was they plan on keeping Manning in Fort. Leavenworth for quite some time. Despite being held for 11 months, including 8 in abusive conditions at Quantico, there are no plans to try Manning any time soon. And the Pentagon made it clear:
the possibility that he will remain in pre-trial confinement for an additional time [...]
and then when you look forward at the likely time before this case goes to trial, [...]
And given the length of time it appears he’ll be in pre- trial confinement, we believe that at this point, this was an appropriate thing to do. [...]
what the projected likely length of time of the pre-trial phase of this case [...]
given the length of time — in the future it looks — it looks as if he’ll be in pre-trial confinement. [...]
given what the likely period of pre-trial confinement in the future will be [...]
And so if you’re in a place for what we expect will be a longer period of pre-trial confinement, [...]
But it is a place where if you’re going to be confined for a longer period of time, [...]
this is a complex case, and we are probably months off from the trial of this case. [...]
Message received: Manning’s going to be held for as long as the Pentagon damn well pleases. Which is probably something they’d have communicated to his lawyer, yes? No. Manning’s lawyer wrote on his blog yesterday that he found about his client’s “imminent” transfer the same way we did: by reading it in the news.
Like many others, the defense first learned of PFC Manning’s move to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas by reading that a government official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, leaked the information to the Associated Press. The defense was not officially notified of PFC Manning’s pending move until twenty minutes before the Pentagon’s press briefing. This is despite the fact that the Pentagon has “been thinking about this for a while.” Although the news of the move came as a surprise to the defense, the timing did not.
All three Pentagon officials at yesterday’s press conference made a big deal that the Kansas facility was medium-security, and that Manning would have the ability to interact with other prisoners, eat in the mess hall, and otherwise be treated like a normal prisoner. Except for that’s not true – yet. That’s the best-case scenario.
Jeh Johnson said that Manning’s transfer to Leavenworth was “imminent” – so it’s probably safe to assume he’ll be there in the next couple of days, if he’s not there already. Lieutenant Colonel Dawn Hilton, who is the commander of the Fort Leavenworth facility where Manning will be held, said that Manning will be subject to a 5-7 day evaluation upon arrival that will determine his security, access, and basic treatment.
LT. COL. HILTON: Absolutely. I don’t know what he was allowed to do at the — at the Quantico brig. But what I can tell you is when he first arrives into the facility, he’ll receive an in-depth risk assessment, initial assessment. And during this phase, anywhere from five to seven days, we try to make sure that he’s assimilated into the population, and that we assess his internal and external risk. After that, typically when he — when we have finished assessing his risk, he will be housed with the other pre-trial inmates. And a typical day is three square meals a day in a dining facility that the post-trials eat at. He’ll receive open recreational time for three hours during the day, both indoors and outdoors. And he’ll have the capability to interact with other pre-trial inmates on a routine basis.
There is no guarantee that Manning’s treatment will be any better than his abuse in Quantico. Right now, it seems it’s all dependent on this initial evaluation. Manning’s lawyer doesn’t seem hopeful, either:
While the defense hopes that the move to Fort Leavenworth will result in the improvement of PFC Manning’s conditions of confinement, it nonetheless intends to pursue redress at the appropriate time for the flagrant violations of his constitutional rights by the Quantico confinement facility.
The Pentagon can’t run away from their abuse, either. Manning supporters have already organized a protest outside Leavenworth for June 4.
[Full transcript of the Pentagon presser on Manning's transfer here.]
142 Comments
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
What happened to that quick and speedy trial? What happened to the promised May trial after the Courts of Martial board was resumed in February? What on earth are they spinning here? Where is the testimony from Lamo in a courtroom?
You beat me to the ‘speedy trial’ comment.
Also, what Manning needs for sure is another ‘in-depth assessment.’ There clearly has not been enough time to do that already. /s
Big props to Jane, Marcy and everyone else who has led in this struggle to defend the Bill of Rights.
Whether it has any tangible benefit for Pfc. Manning is unclear, but this is a clear “win” for Americans who believe in Civil Rights.
IIRC, during the 60′s the Pentagon sent non-violent anti-Vietnam protesters to hard time at Leavenworth.
This is a great chance for civil libertarians in Kansas to stand up for the Bill of Rights.
An “in depth assessment” for what purpose?
Determine if the Solitary confinement is having the desired effect?
Find out how susceptible to waterboarding he is?
There’s no point to Manning having a lawyer. There’s nothing legal about this, and there’s not going to be legal restitution or resolution to it.
The rule of law is defined by the whims of state officials, not by trials, cases, rulings, or legislatures.
He doesn’t need an attorney. He needs the A-Team.
Another day, another move towards totalitarianism.
Should read
Manning’s going to be held for as long as the
PentagonObama damn well pleases.A “quick and speedy trial”.
Where is that damned kangaroo? We need kangaroos on the “Homeland” mainland, pronto!
Actually, ’twas eCAHN (if memory serves) who “nailed” it, earlier.
The big O wants Manning disappeared from public consciousness because the heat in the damn kitchen has got the help complainin’ and the neighbors have begun to notice that something doesn’t smell quite right …
DW
Our imaginations, even after all this time and everything we’re learned, are probably not fertile enough to figure out what news depths they will plumb next.
New “news depths” is precisely what this “move” is about, eCAHN.
And the rest of your comment is direst truth.
DW
Where are all the Obama defenders? Can’t blame this on the Tea Party. Better keep a low low profile. Fact is AMERICA IS A FASCIST FUCKING JOKE. It is called a dictatorship and either Obama is the dictator or someone above him is. Either way, the government has lost legitimacy.
You know he could have a hidden RPG in his rectum, so there has to be a “cavity” search when he’s moved , right?
As much as I hated the solitary confinement, this makes me really nervous. Leavenworth is hard time. After spending months alone I imagine being thrown into the general population won’t be easy and may very well be dangerous. The gov’t is hoping that Manning will just disappear from the public mind and probably wouldn’t care if he “disappeared” completely.
Ooops. Missed the typo & too late to edit. “new” depths, not “news” depths, though the latter is also true in an ironic sort of way.
Everyone beat me to the speedy trial thing. I thought we Americans were guaranteed that, somewhere…? Habeus corpus?
My heart goes out to Bradley Manning, but he is a symbol of a larger struggle going on in this country that involves all of us. It’s almost like there’s been a coup d’etat and we live in an occupied America.
I hate america.
Everytime I hear idiots talking about the defense of the great homeland I realize that I live in a modern nazi germany.
Canadians, if new york unilaterally declares war on canada then surreders five seconds later and raises the canadian flag, how long would it take for you to make us citizens?
I want to be a fifth columnist for the mighty canadian empire :P
OBAMA 2012
Are You In…Carcerated ?
I though they had to declare him an enemy combatant before they could do this? /s
Just hope all those people waving flags and cheering this, realize they or someone they love could be next.
After people accept this treatment of military personal they will need to do it to a prominent civilian to push forward the president to the general population. Slow boil indeed.
In other words, they drove him nuts and now he needs psychiatric care.
Too true, eCAHN, in the least ironic and nuanced ways imaginable … spin being the dervish of our special (dare I say “exceptional”?), American form of tyranny.
DW
Am I being paranoid by wondering if one of the reasons for putting Pfc Manning in with hardened “cases” is to have someone beat him? All it would take is one batshit crazy serviceman to do him in. Then, “case closed.”
I’m afraid for his well being. TPTB are’t going to quit till Pfc Manning is gone, either mentally or physically.
Fuckers
I don’t know about your “correction”…I think the Pentagon owns Obama, not the other way around.
Hey, I may have beat you on this post but as DW says, you beat us all months ago.
I’m so sick of this DOD and DOJ, and, and…
It is nothing but a joke on us and Manning. Don’t tell me what the US stands for anymore. The entire world knows it and so do we!
I said this a long time ago on one of these threads. “It really looks as if they do not have a case”, not one they think they can win, anyway. And, I don’t buy the theory that there is any possibility that Manning can, in any way, finger Assange. Wikileaks is set up in a way that makes that impossible–the Wikileaks admins do not determine what is submitted and those submissions are deliberately “anonymous”, so it is a dead-end for the gov’t there. What they do have is “something” provided by Lamo–we don’t know what–and they are very reluctant to base a case on “evidence” that has anything to do with Lamo. He’s tainted and they know it. The government is certain that Manning, at the very least, leaked a substantial amount of the information that Wikileaks possesses, because he (stupidly) admitted as much to Lamo, but that brings their case full-circle back to Lamo, and they’re screwed. My only conclusion is that the government has decided to hold Manning until he agrees to plead “Guilty”. They do have a history of this, from Guantanamo (Google David Hicks).
thank you – his fealty and unworldly obsequiousness to “authority” defies belief
A question I haven’t gotten quite clear is if he has hired his own counsel or if his oft-mentioned lawyer is court-appointed – and in this case army-appointed.
There would be greater access to press if he has an other-than-milspec counsel, and with this move, his current lawyer may not be able to follow up because of logistics.
If it is military-ordered counsel which to them makes sense since his charges are ucmj charges, not under the jurisdiction of civilian courts… then new counsel upon arrival to leavenworth *IS* likely.
Another thing, they are saying they are moving him to a brand-new facility. Just opened in September. This new facility may be FOR cases that don’t fall into the neat and tidy jurisdiction like most other cases. Like other american’s with ‘waronterror’ charges. Just a thought on the direction the Obama admin and his MIC may be taking here.
One way to look at this, and my heart goes out to Bradley Manning – I hope indeed that the physical conditions of his incarceration will improve – one way to look at this is, this is the last gasp of a dying regime and it is all they have to work with, not changing and not resolving any of the crimes which have been ongoing since 2000. We are really close now to accomplishing progressive aims, because all they can do is stall.
The stall tactic can only bring more of Americans to realize, against their own previous convictions, that this is no way to run a country. And the ‘opposition’ in government will only reinforce this enlightenment process by becoming, as it must, more and more ridiculous by contrast, as they desperately try to keep the slipping illusion of Obama’s presidency in place.
Perpetual war, perpetual incarceration – nothing in this world which changes to give life is perpetual. Thank God.
We are going to get out of this.
Yes, thanks for outlouding “they don’t have a case” again.
That must be made explicit every time the USG does indefinite detention.
The only reason for no trial is because the person in prison has broken no laws, and is therefore is the textbook case of a political prisoner.
Few here will disagree with your assessment, reddog, ANY of it.
DW
I hope you’re right and they don’t have a case, but don’t know what to do with him and with a charge sheet they can’t prove.
I’m all over that Lamo line. I agree with you and I also do not see how they can try Manning without a full and open statement from the beginning with Lamo!
So much for that right to a speedy trial thing.
Michael Whitney, do you have another link to info on the June4 protest?
I won’t do facebook.
Manning’s “transgression”, as many will know, is simply that he told the American people what the rest of the world already knows.
Telling the truth IS a “crime” these days, eCAHN, as the emperor is feeling an odd, all-encompassing chill, despite the splendid fineness of his raiment.
DW
Reply to reddog @ 24
reddog, I remember your post and I couldn’t agree more.
If the gov’t had a case, they would use it as a show trial and that just isn’t happening.
On one hand, I think a show trial would trump keeping Manning incarcerated.
On the other hand, if they went to trial and lost, they would really look foolsh.
BUT, I do believe they can’t lose, the deck is stacked in their favor, considering who the judges would be
US Constitution
Amendment VI – Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
This is a violation of the 6th amendment:
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.”
I thought Oilbummer was a Constitutional scholar?????
What an excellent description of Obama – perfect word choice.
I have a question. Why does the gov’t not have an obligation to inform Manning’s attorney when they are moving him hundreds of miles away?
Indeed. Well put. And Pfc. Bradley Manning is a political prisoner of the United States of America, tortured before he was tried. That’s been SOP, hasn’t it, since the ‘war on terror’ became a ‘war on freedom’?
David Dayen has a fresh post ready: Howard Dean Turns Against Afghan War
Yeah, well evidently he trained himself under the Bush Family doctrine that the Constitution is just a damned piece of paper!
The sudden move to Leavenworth will make it less convenient for a member of Congress to stop by, something the appeared to worry about. There are fewer newspaper reporters in Kansas than in Washington, D.C., and from what I hear, Kansas is less prone to liberal activism. Most of all, it would make it harder for an attorney based in the Washington area to drop in unannounced. (Remember that the government has the capable to monitor air travel and reservations).
Manning should have received an assessment to determine the appropriate security level long ago, as it is part of the normal routine. However, he should have been tried long ago, also. Authorities frequently bribe prisoners to obtain testimony to convinct someone else, and they may something like that in Manning’s case.
It worries me that Manning would be interacting with a large number of convicted criminals three times a day…a huge opportunity for someone to do him harm. The logical move of a government inclined to abuse a prisoner, but soundly criticized for it, would be to enlist a third party to abuse Manning for them.
You’ve defined political prisoner in other words.
My wingnut cousin thinks Manning should be shot, so you can imagine how the US gov’t feels about him.
Here’s a question: Does Bradley Manning know?
Or will they simply put earmuffs and black goggles on him, walk him up an air transport ramp in shackles and handcuffs, and fly him away, like enemies of the Homeland have been mistreated since 9/11? I bet he hasn’t a clue, and I bet his lawyer won’t be able to tell him, especially if the lawyer had to hear about this in the media?
I noticed that in the above clip they did not ask about visitors. Quantico put a stop to his visitors, so I am wondering if they will continue that at the new facility.
this will never be confirmed of course, and is conjecture on my part, but I would not be surprised if Quantico is ‘locally led’ by your typical ‘roughneck-and-thug’ tactics which *may have* led to isolation, the pmsmock, harassment etc. All used as preparation or part of the process of marine interrogation. Moving him to FtLev *MAY*improve those conditions.
Jeh Johnson said something about visitors at the briefing:
.
Here’s some more information for the June 4 rally at Leavenworth: http://www.gonzotimes.com/2011/04/bradley-manning-rally-and-vigil-in-leavenworth-ks/
The 6th Amendment ‘Speedy Trial’ only exists in reality, in jurisdictions that have enacted specific legislation such as 30 days for Infractions/Misdmeanors & 60 days for felonies.
If the Govt. fails to start a trial on time, it’s Case Dismissed in these places.! (if the def. files & wins the motion.)
Practicality & ‘reasonableness’ work to delay justice wherever there is no specific law.
Probably they are redefining Manning as an “enemy combatant” or terrorist and so his Constitutional rights are therefore waived. I mean, if the White House lawyers say it’s okay, like Oilbummer says, then dammit it’s okay!
Thank You!
If that’s the case, then why have the 6th amendment at all?
I think he was picked and allowed to win by the bushes and rove, backed up by Diebold. He’s said he cool with his treatment.
I think he’s getting off on the torture thing, like being a little bit pregnant, once you torture you need a bigger fix next time.
But that’s just me, believe what you like.
As there is NO effective rule of law, eCAHN, words must be used in as many ways as possible to suggest the nature of reality.
It is a bit like a committee encountering an elephant in the cave of darkness, relating the aspects of “elephant” piecemeal and disjointed to each other …
Eventually the light will dawn … the question is who will be left holding what?
The ONLY way the PTB and the MOTU can keep “control” is by hiding the truth. If “state secrets” is insufficient, then jail-cells are the first option, then insanity or death for those who will not willingly embrace the deliberate destruction of conscience and reason.
DW
In reality, you have no rights. There are no such things as rights. The gov’t will take them away as it sees fit a la Manning, etc, etc. There is no rule of law. We are born free. The gov’t makes these rights up as another form of control.
Thanks for the update. This whole thing stinks, but it appears the post and prior commentary cover the issues invovled very well.
Welcome to our fascist totalitarian society, folks. Disgusting and very chilling indeed. Manning’s not going to get out any time soon; that much is clear. IF Manning gets even marginally better treatment at Leavenworth (doubtful but one can hope), that’s something but not much.
Clearly the PTB want to hide Manning away; guess Quantico was too close to the “action” and the spotlight.
Free Bradley Manning!!!!!
Agree.
Agree. Esp over the past 3 decades, whatever “rights” citizens enjoyed have been slowly – and recently, much more quickly – eroded. We can all note here at FDL the number of conservatives who blog here regularly totally clapping, cheering and blissfully encouraging the removal of citzens’ rights as a “very very very good thing.”
Citizens totally don’t “get it.” More’s the pity…
The behavior of Nazi trash………
In having followed Manning for awhile much was made by Obama defenders how that because Manning was in the military that he gave up certain rights, but in the military the speedy trial right is even more exacting than for those who just fall under the 6th Amendment:
http://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/digest/VB3.htm
http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2011/01/motion-to-dismiss-for-lack-of-speedy.html
The military actually has more stringent speedy trial rules than even the 6th Amendment provides. Manning will have his chance to litigate that issue, though the intervening factor of the 706 Board is going to make winning that motion difficult. Manning’s counsel is probably in no rush to the courtroom considering Manning has been getting full pay during the time he is in pre-trial confinement. Hate to let inconvenient facts and reality get in the way of self-righteous indignation.
You’d think Barry OilyBomber would at least have some sense and courage to do what’s right; but the guy is a complete fascist just like Bush. Why aren’t all the liberals crying about these things???? Just because the guy has a D in front of his name. Liberals are hypocrites. No wonder the American people don’t trust them.
Wasn’t it Chaney that described the Constitution as a “quaint document”?
Somehow I knew this “it’s all for his own good” stuff about the transfer to Kansas was bullshit: they’ve Gitmoized Bradley Manning and simply put him in an area where it will be harder for his supporters to make their voices heard.
Sadly, it looks like George W. Chimp was right: the Constitution, notably the Sixth Amendment, is just a “goddamn piece of paper.”
“We can all note here at FDL the number of conservatives who blog here regularly totally clapping, cheering and blissfully encouraging the removal of citizens’ rights as a “very very very good thing.”
Until it happens to them! Take their rights away under the color of law and hear them squawk like children having their candy taken away! Hypocrites even in the afterlife!
They use it as if it where toilet paper. Dispose of it when it is no longer in their self interest. Flush em into the sewer, where they belong, in this case. With all the other “turds.”
Specifically, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, not the Constitution, applies to Pfc. Manning.
Regarding a speedy trial
from the UCMJ:
810. ART. 10. RESTRAINT OF PERSONS CHARGED WITH OFFENSES
Any person subject to this chapter charged with an offense under this chapter shall be ordered into arrest or confinement, as circumstances may require; but when charged only with an offense normally tried by a summary court-martial, he shall not ordinarily be placed in confinement. When any person subject to this chapter is placed in arrest or confinement prior to trial, immediate steps shall be taken to inform him of the specific wrong of which he is accused and to try him or to dismiss the charges and release him.
from the law offices of Philip D. Cave:
The UCMJ, Article 10, speedy trial clock is running. Basically 120 days from imposition of restraint to arraignment.
When a servicemember is placed in pretrial confinement, “immediate steps shall be taken” to inform the accused of the charges and to either bring the accused to trial or dismiss the charges. Article 10, UCMJ. “We have consistently noted that Article 10 creates a more exacting speedy trial demand than does the Sixth Amendment [and R.C.M. 707].”
United States v. Thompson, 68 M.J. 308, 312 (C.A.A.F. 2010).
http://court-martial.com/ucmj-pretrial-restraint/
Don’t forget the adult diapers. Wouldn’t want Manning to soil the floor in the cargo transport plane.
I wasn’t being dismissive. I think it’s important to define political prisoner in both short- and long-form language. For a lot of reasons, among which is how many forms it takes. I was just trying to tie what you typed back the political prisoner theme, since that terminology evokes dictatorship behavior without using the more inflammatory language that now MEGOs readers.
Right, they don’t have a case. As I’ve posted here before (per Greenwald interview) Lamo told Manning prior to his confession that he was an ordained minister and anything he told him would be confidential and in fact Lamo was ordained by a mail order church but so long as Manning confessed in reliance on such a statement, even a fake minister would have priest-penitent privilege.
The Army is running out the clock until Manning’s term of enlistment ends in October at which point, they’ll have to let him walk out of Leavenworth.
MEGO?
And wasn’t something to this effect filed earlier in the year which required a deadline response or else he had to be freed? What happened there? What did I miss?
Actually both Art 10/RCM 707, 5/6th Amendment apply to PFC Manning. Folks don’t let what is going on with the military commissions confuse what Manning will experience, his trial will not be a kangaroo court. For better or worse, he will have his opportunity to be heard.
My Eyes Glaze Over, which is what happens any time someone types fascist or Nazi.
“Basically 120 days from imposition of restraint to arraignment.” What is the actual day count from the imposition of restraint? May of 2010 he was arrested in Iraq. Today is April 20th 2011. 365 days ain’t to far away, some day in May!
“The Army is running out the clock until Manning’s term of enlistment ends in October at which point, they’ll have to let him walk out of Leavenworth.”
beowulf,
This would, indeed, be good news. Would you please substantiate this?
Maybe, too, the PTB will delay till late Sept to bring him to trial.
Ridiculous and I look forward to you posting an apology when this doesn’t even come up at trial. Your second sentence is also incredibly incorrect, charges were preferred and he continues to serve until resolution of those charges. Way to confuse folks with misinformation though.
Whew! Thanks waynec. I used my ration of acronymic Q’s the other day and have to step to the back of the line again.
The Army’s prison at Fort Leavenworth is described in online sources as both “medium” and “maximum” security. As with most American prisons nowadays, it has an “isolation” wing. The Army will be able to replicate the conditions at Quantico for whatever period it, the Pentagon and the President deem necessary. And that’s before Mr. Manning is ever tried on any charge. The American system of justice: coming to a neighborhood near you.
A Few Good Men continues to provide a host of metaphors for describing the government’s treatment of Mr. Manning and the public generally under Mr. Obama and his predecessor. Lt. Kaffee represents the public, Marine Col. Jessep the government.
This example isn’t about picking up a weapon and standing to post, or shutting up and saying thank you.
It’s not about being able to handle the truth. That seems to be Mr. Obama’s and his government’s problem, and the explanation for their chronic abuse of Mr. Manning:
No. This example is about following orders. Jessep snears at Kaffee that his men follow orders or people die. “It’s that simple. Are we clear?” “Yes, sir” “Are we clear?” “Crystal.”
Kaffee then asks Jessep, if he gave an order that Pvt. Santiago was not to be touched (given a Code Red for one more screw up), then why did Jessep feel Santiago was in grave danger (“Is there any other kind?”) and order him transferred off the base?
If President Obama or a military officer under his command ordered the Marines at Quantico to treat Mr. Manning in compliance with the UCMJ and applicable federal laws, then why did Mr. Obama or his seneschal order him transferred to Fort Leavenworth?
Would you be so good as to explore the essential difference between a generic federal penitentiary such as Leavenworth, and a strictly military ‘brig’ such as at Quantico?
Is the chain of command structure and its rigors altered now? Are the US Army and the USMC no longer the exclusive or singular arbiters of jurisdiction? For instance, Rep. Dennis Kucinich may not have been entitled to unfettered access at Quantico, while those restraints won’t apply at Leavenworth.
Decl. of Indep. paraphrased:
Know / accept all are equal to each other.
Know you have specific rights.
You are asked and expected to be totally happy, it not mattering
what others think.
You are expected to actively insist on your rights being respected.
And yes, America’s experiment requires energy from its citizens.
(and don’t leave it up to Mr. Obama to decide what kind of
Constitutional Law Professor he was or what kind of “left” he is)
http://sites.google.com/site/evernewecon
Manning isn’t going to be held at Leavenworth Penitentiary, which is a civilian federal prison off the base.
He’s going to be held at Fort Leavenworth’s Military Corrections Complex, an Army military prison on base.
Wonderful excerpt and analogy.
Jessep’s “… have neither the time nor the inclination …” of course echoes the very language of General Ripper from Dr. Strangelove, which had to be intentional.
Okay.
No, they won’t have to. Soldiers and sailors, including officers, can be ordered to stay on active duty just so that they can face military justice.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi_police_state.htm
“In Nazi Germany the police were allowed to arrest people on suspicion that they were about to do wrong. This gave the police huge powers. All local police units had to draw up a list of people in their locality who might be suspected of being “Enemies of the State”. This list was given to the Gestapo – the Secret Police. The Gestapo had the power to do as it liked. Its leader – Reinhard Heydrich – was one of the most feared man in Nazi Germany. His immediate chief was Heinrich Himmler. Both men ran their respective branches with ruthless efficiency.”
“Those arrested by either the police or the Gestapo had less than three minutes to pack clothing and say their goodbyes. Once arrested, they were sent to the nearest police cell. Those in custody were told to sign Form D-11; this was an “Order For Protective Custody”. By signing this, you agreed to go to prison. Those who did not sign it were beaten until they did or officers simply forged their signature. Once a D-11 was signed, you were sent to a concentration camp. How long you stayed here depended on the authorities. The usual rule of thumb was whether it was felt that you had learned your lesson (even if there had not been one to learn) and would behave in an acceptable manner once outside of prison.”
Yup, I wonder how many eyes glazed over in Germany? DING DING DING!!!
Pre-trial confinement is not a legally permissible substitute for trial, conviction and post-trial punishment. “Justice delayed is justice denied” is simply a pithy version of the Sixth Amendment right to a speedy and public trial:
Under the UCMJ, that obligation falls to the military, it doesn’t fall away.
In any event, pre- and post-trial confinement must be accordance with applicable law. Mr. Manning’s treatment, however, more closely resembles the FBI’s (under John Ashcroft as AG) post-9/11 serial abuse of material witness warrants.
The confinement facility at Leavenworth is going to have there own rules and procedures concerning visitation. Frankly, I’m not sure how different those rules will be from the Quantico brig but the command structure is totally different.
It’s the purity of our legal essence that the treatment of Mr. Manning expresses.
I have talked with many whistleblowers, including some high profile whistleblowers. Not only is the government willing to hurt a whistleblower; they are willing to hurt innocent people in order to punish a whistleblower.
That’s a good question. Where Bradley Manning is concerned, it’s hard to predict anything.
Those stringent speedy trial rules are meaningless. As for full pay, you have got to be kidding as if what he’s going through is worth it. I don’t know why his counsel hasn’t objected for many reasons in many forums. According to defense counsel
the time is not right. I can only ask, If not now, when?
Speaking of visitors, this little move makes it quite a bit harder for David House to visit Manning, doesn’t it?
You know, if Manning is hurt or killed while in general population, the gov’t will just turn around and say, “See, we told you he had to be kept in iso for his own good”.
I can well imagine that they could tell him nothing. After deteriorating in solitary for 10 months, he’ll be flown under god only knows what kind of conditions and then assessed for 5-7 days. what kind of assessment will be able to be made if he’s terrified and in shock from his solitary confinement, lack of sleep, exercise and visitors, sudden flight, no access to his lawyer and arrival in a bright, new shiny jail? he could well be assessed poorly if put into the general population based on all this or based on his fears about the change even if he’s still in solitary.
did the jail add the capability for have pre-trial confinement prisoners in january just to accommodate the pentagon’s and obama’s wishes to move him?
what kind of mental health treatment will he receive from the professionals on staff at leavenworth? being drugged? the professionals being accessories to torture?
those are some of my concerns.
The US government killed many civilians in Panama to capture and shut up Noriega.
??? I think you grossly overestimate how significant Manning’s case is to the military and the administration. No one is out to get or torture Manning, just another case among many other high-profile cases. FYI, I don’t see you raising the same pre-trial concerns about Maj. Nidal Hasan who has been in pretrial (admittedly for some time in a hospital) since November 5, 2009. He is also merely accused at this point of a crime, where are his protests and supporters?
Nothing Lamo said or says will ever come up at trial, don’t be absurd.
The government long ago realized he’s an entirely unreliable witness.
I think you grossly underestimate the importance of this case.
So there.
US WikiLeaks Soldier Moved to New Prison
Bradley Manning, the soldier suspected of giving secret military documents to WikiLeaks, is being moved to a new detention center. http://www.newslook.com/videos/305949-us-wikileaks-soldier-moved-to-new-prison?autoplay=true
I wonder. Do they even have anything to prove the charges against PFC Manning? If not, can they just imprison him forever?
Is this your opinion or do you have knowledge you would like to share that this is the case?
And how is it that you think you know my concerns about Nidal Hasan based on what my concerns are about Bradley Manning when I’m commenting on a thread about Bradley Manning?
Would you be willing to share what kind of work you do, who pays your salary and to whom you report? I could be making an incorrect assumption that you are a working person.
David House has been removed from Manning’s visitor list.
No.
Yes.
Excellent questions, thanks for asking them. I forget sometimes that we need to ask these questions regularly, post HBGaryFederal, in order to validate seemingly odd commenters’ motives and incentives. Especially when they seem directly intended to cross-cut the conversation.
Thank you.
I get it, concerned and fair-minded Army lawyers, judges, psychiatrists don’t fit into your delusion of a shadow right-wing conspiracy with hand-holding between the Obama adminstration and the military-industrial complex . . . nevertheless sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Something which I’m sure never occurred to the government, uh-uh, no way.
In connection with http://www.bradleymanning.com, maybe we can chip in for an occasional plane ticket for Mr. House.
The only concerned attorneys, UN Rapporteurs on Torture, ICRC staff, and psychiatrists/psychologists whose opinions I respect are horrified at the treatment of Bradley Manning, so I can’t make sense of your statement about my reliance on some conspiracy theory.
Please see my 105
Who is paying you to post here, please?
How can they do that? (I suppose the answer is “At this point, they can do anything they want with impunity,” but still…)
Or he could be a free-lancer. Why pay for it when you can get it for free?
I’m a baker . . . and a concerned citizen who wants honest, constructive dialogue from both the left and right without the need for self-aggrandizing hyperbole.
The issue about visitors in Quantico appears to be moot at this point as it appears that he’s about to be moved to Leavenworth where he’ll be starting over with who is and isn’t permitted to see him. He’ll need to ok any visitors which presupposes that he’ll be in condition to ok particular visitors who would like to see him, all subject to approval by the authorities at Leavenworth.
A baker or a half-baker?
Sometimes a cigar is a phallic symbol. Difficult to tell the difference. Are you saying Bradley Manning has not been mistreated? If he wasn’t, why not let the UN guy in to see him? Doesn’t it bother you that we criticize other nations for human rights abuses as we commit them?
Understood and appreciated, eCAHN.
You gave me the opportunity to suggest the necessity of speaking truth in as many ways as possible, that it might be truly understood by all who care to understand and recognize their responsibility, as citizens and human beings, to do so.
;~DW
Many, many Americans appear not to be bothered by this.
Bakers among them, apparently.
Not sure how human rights abuses, rule of law, and torture have become the the word of the day . . . if at trial a judge, after reviewing the evidence and hearing argument from both sides, determines that the Marine’s conditions of pretrial confinement were too harsh and that should result in the charges being dismissed then the system has worked. To date, Manning’s counsel has not filed a writ of habeas when it was available to him . . . to me that speaks volumes about the “torturous” conditions he faced.
Or maybe the Marines at Quantico don’t treat their prisoners like zoo animals, on display for the world to see.
Or…why would you give somone a tour of a Honda dealership when they want to see a Toyota? If there’s no Toyota, tell them there’s no Toyota and move on. Why waste your time?
Not much consciousness rising among some yeasties today, ‘twould seem, Teddy.
That must come from rolling in the dough?
Or, perhaps, ’tis a sort of flour power?
Possibly living on bread, alone?
Sad, actually, to simply be mixing with the “staff of life” rather than the stuff of life …
DW
You’re not sure how the rule of law became the word of the day? It’s the word every day, doncha know?
As for human rights and torture, see: Eighth Amendment to U.S. Constitution, UN Convention Against Torture, the Geneva Conventions, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, etc., etc., etc.
Also: imagine yourself or someone important to you being tortured by your government. Do you want redress, or will you let them skate if Granny gets waterboarded?
What kind of American are you? If you’re in a Honda dealership and someone walks in for a Toyota you tell them the Honda’s a Toyota or that they didn’t really want a Toyota. Also don’t get your zoo analogy. Are you saying Manning wasn’t mistreated? Actually zoo animals are on display for all to see. Probably get treated better than Manning.
By action by DOD?
Okay, so who does get to visit Manning?
Remember, a baker is only an “n” away from being a banker.
The Guardian reports Manning is now at Leavenworth: Bradley Manning’s family welcomes news of his move to prison in Kansas: WikiLeaks suspect will be held in ‘more open’ military facility in Fort Leavenworth, with three hours of recreation a day.
What I’m saying is Manning should not be treated like a novelty item to congressmen and international representatives. Do you honestly believe Kucinich actually cares about Manning. Nope, he cares about votes. Do you honestly believe the U.N. thinks Manning is being mistreated? Nope, they just want to cut away at the American government. Manning and the Marines at Quantico are stuck in the middle of a political crap storm.
The people living in the Quantico brig are still service members and deserve protection from the public circus going on outside the walls.
And no, I don’t believe Manning was mistreated. I think he may have not liked his conditions, but he wasn’t mistreated. I have a lot of friends in military corrections, and asked all kinds of questions about what is normal or abnormal. Everything I’ve read about Manning is what my friends explain to be standard in any brig.
Way to add substantively to the dialogue . . . yes, I’m a secret plant for the banking industry. Its funny a running theme on this site is the need for an open government which is responsive to the people yet any comment that is out of line with the far-left, progressive dogma is met with accusations of being a plant and dismissive, angry response. Tyranny works on both sides of the political spectrum.
So, Gitsum, you have no interest in WHY Manning is in the “position” in which he has been placed?
YOU would rather NOT know the truth of the murder which is done in YOUR name?
Even though everyone else, not living in YOUR little “America is perfect, and doing nothing but good” world knows full well what horrors America daily commits?
YOU would rather be lied to and see your fellow citizens and the rule of law treated with complete and utter disdain?
ekunin asked you what kind of “American” you are.
You have answered his question and revealed yourself.
No doubt, you are proud of yourself and your nation regardless of what it might do or whom it might harm or destroy … in your name.
Will you accept the consequence when the rest of the people of the world have had enough of destruction, endless war, and other organized mayhems?
Or … will you say, “I had no idea that any of this was going on, so don’t blame me, don’t hold ME to account”?
Just wondering, Gitsum, just wondering.
You are foolish to assume I don’t give a damn about this topic. I’ve stated before, and I’ll state it again, I am a US Marine. I volunteered to support and defend the constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
If Manning is indeed guilty (to be determined) of releasing thousands of classified cables and documents, he should go to jail for a long time.
I will also inform you that I applaud his courage, IF he tried to route his concerns through the chain of command and was told to shut up. If he felt a moral obligation to shed light on wrong-doings, and had the courage to follow through, good on him.
I do, however, think it was foolish of him (if found guilty) to release anything and everything he could. If he came across the video, which probably should not have been classified in the first place (I don’t know what led up to the helicopter engaging people on the ground), tried to bring it to his chain of command’s attention and was told to shut up, he should have released ONLY the video…to the press, not Wikileaks. That would make him a whistleblower.
As far as the treatment of Manning, I think anyone who thinks he is being intentionally mistreated is sorely misinformed. Yeah, it sucks to sit in a brig, but given the circumstances surrounding this topic, I think the Marines were treating him about as fairly as anyone could hope.
I’ve read a lot of the articles on this topic. I think the government has been as transparent as possible, without violating his privacy. It seems to me that nothing the DOD says will fit your agenda.
You tell them I’m tired of them.
“Agenda”?
My concern is truth, justice, and what SHOULD be the “American way”, Gitsum.
Do you believe that stripping Manning of his clothing and making him report naked is “appropriate”.
As an ex-Marine, do you find that honorable and proper?
Do you find it conducive to reason and understanding?
Until and unless Manning is found guilty in a court of law, ANY punishment or what reasonable people would consider abusive treatment is unconscionable, un-Constitutional, intentionally degrading, and simply wrong.
“the Marines were treating him about as fairly as anyone could hope.”
That’s a sad commentary on your humanity, sir. Shame
HE’s innocent, as an American Innocent, Innocent, Innocent until found guilty.
What constitution were the Marines defending anyway?
So if Manning is found innocent, is he compensated for his almost year long incarceration? Or is it Oh well?
First, there is no such thing as an “ex-Marine.” Once a Marine, always a Marine. And I’m still on active duty.
I’ve read just about everything that has been written about Manning’s confinment. I absolutely agree the trial is taking too long. What I don’t agree with are the allegations that the Marines at Quantico are taking punitive measures against Manning.
Examples:
Allegation: Manning is being kept in solitary confinement to break him.
Response: Manning isn’t in solitary confiment, he lives in a one man cell like eveyone else in the brig. Manning is charged with very serious crimes, could be sentenced to spend a long time in jail, has knowledge of classified information, and was determined to be a potential risk to himself. All justifiable reasons to classify him as “max-custody.” Whether or not the psychs thought he was a risk to himself, the brig commander has to look at ALL of the information, to include Manning’s daily conduct (like saying he could kill himself with his underwear.) FYI, sarcasm doesn’t fly in the military when the topic is suicide.
Allegation: Manning was forced to stand naked for inspection, in front of everyone.
Response: No he wasn’t. Manning, on one occasion, decided to stand naked for morning muster…inside his cell, where nobody could see him. If you get your news from any place other than FDL, you would know that none of the detainees have view of another in the Quantico brig, and they do not come out of their cells for muster. His clothes were taken from him because he made a remark indicating he had thought about suicide.
Allegation: The Marines harrassed Manning, making him say “aye” instead of “yes.”
Response: It’s a Naval facility. Whether you agree with it or not, when on another service’s facility, you follow their customs. Example: Marines do not salute indoors unless covered (have a hat on) because you are under arms (standing a post with a weapons.) Soldiers do, so when I am on an Army base and reporting to a senior officer indoors, I salute. I will concede that Marines can be a little overzealous when making corrections, but you should also recognize that Manning probably overreacted a little.
The truth is, none of us were there. All allegations of mistreatment have been made by Manning, Coombs and Manning supporters. Of course those people will cry wolf. The DoD has responded to every query along the way. Of course the DoD will point out it’s not a wolf.
I have to make my decisions based on what I read (from both sides of the fence) and what makes logical sense. It does not make logical sense that the Marines would abuse a high-profile prisoner, knowing full well that the world is watching, and that any allegations of wrong-doing would be investigated. It was reported (in NY Times, I think) that an investigation was conducted at the brig, and they were clean. It does not make logical sense, especially after Abu Ghraib, that any misconduct would be swept under the rug.
Clearly you have not read what EW at “Emptywheel” has revealed today, that is, Thursday, April 21, 2011?
If you do so, then you might not be so sanguine regarding what has gone on.
Also, your earlier suggestion that Manning should have gone to the “media” rather than Wikileaks, suggests that you have already “bought” the official line, hook and sinker … as we both can well imagine that the media would happily have done nothing … indeed they would have “checked” with the powers-that-be to “see” if it were anything that should be published.
Clearly, as a forever-Marine, you will NOT question ANYTHING which the DOD or anyone in the military do or say. No doubt you believe that “abuses” at the prison you mention were the acts of a “few bad apples” and NOT official policy arising from John Yoo’s “finding”?
The American empire is about finished, Gitsum, and it will end very badly indeed.
Military might, and the willingness to use it, notwithstanding, will not improve matters. Endless war, endless killing of even millions of innocents will not save America, indeed, it will hasten its ignoble and ignominious end.
Much more is being “swept under the rug” than you realize or care, apparently, to understand or imagine is possible.
It may be that “good Americans” will learn the lesson that “good Germans” once learned. That is, if America is very lucky, and everyone else is merciful.
Imagine that.
Manning continues to receive full pay and benefits throughout the court-martial proceeding. Thereafter, if convicted, his pay can decrease or be stopped contingent upon what type of sentence he receives. This is unique in American jurisprudence.
Manning receives full pay and benefits before conviction because he will have been innocent of any crime for that entire period. If he is convicted beyond any reasonable doubt of any serious crimes, he may or may not continue as a paid employee of the federal government, with or without a presidential pardon or commutation of his sentence. That is routine in American jurisprudence.
The American empire is not finished; the share of national revenue flowing to its minions has increased dramatically in the past ten years and shows no signs of slowing regardless of the party or personalities in power. It is its poor and middle class whose prospects are in dire straits.