Looking at the current political environment and gaming out the possible actions that could be taken it seems abundantly clear that progressives best course of action on Social Security is to simply refuse to even think about allowing any changes in the program. Progressives should also follow Harry Reid’s advice by sticking to this “just say no” position for decades to come.
Obviously, if and only if Republican agree to total ideological surrender and follow the will of the American people by just lifting the cap on the payroll tax to give the program solvency forever, progressives should agree. But the Republicans care more about tax cuts than anything, so this theoretical option isn’t on the table, leaving the best game plan as totally refusing any changes.
The worst-case scenario if progressive refuse to allow anything to happen
To understand why just saying no to anything short of full GOP surrender is a good strategy, you need to examine the worst-case scenario. If progressive refusal results in truly nothing being done for the next three decades, by around 2040, just the trust fund will have run dry. The program won’t go bankrupt or disappear. It will still be bringing in a large amount of revenue, but only enough to cover 80% of benefits. According to the CBO (PDF), “benefits would need to be cut by about 20 percent in 2040 to equalize outlays and revenue,” and benefits will remain basically at this slightly reduced level for decades afterwards.
While this is bad, remember this is the absolute worst case floor we are dealing with. The fact that most of the so-called bipartisan “compromises” being floated to “fix” Social Security would end up gradually cutting benefits to almost this same level by 2040 is a perfect reason why they should be rejected out of hand.
Future Congresses will never allow a sudden sharp cut in benefits
The political reality is that the worst case just won’t happen. If progressives do prevent any changes to Social Security, in 2040, that future Congress is highly unlikely to allow a sudden 20% cut. Just imagine the devastating political backlash against the party that let that happen to millions of seniors.
If we get to 2040 with no changes, most likely, Congress will pass a series of “temporary” or permanent extensions that will keep benefits intact. The overall Social Security shortfall in 2060 will only be 1.1% of GDP. That is a relatively modest price tag a future Congress is unlikely to have a problem approving. It is less than half of what the Bush tax cuts cost when passed, and 1.1% GDP is about what we spent last year on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Don’t allow the frog to be boiled slowly
The worst thing, politically, progressives can do is agreed to a “deal” that allows the frog to be boiled slowly with very gradual annual cuts. It allows the enemies of social insurance to hide a massive slashing of the social safety net in a thousand yearly cuts and to buy off the current senior vote by promising them all the pain will only be felt by young people.
The closer to the 2040 any change to Social Security is made, the more likely voters will demand the benefits are kept strong because they will be directly affected. It is easy to get people to accept a big cut for people 40 years in the future, it is hard to get them to accept big cut to their own benefits four years in the future.
Time is on the progressives’ side
Social Security is on a great financial footing for decades and the closer we get to 2040, the more likely any “fix” will be less focused on benefit cuts. There is absolutely no reason progressive should even entertain any changes to the program unless they are 100% progressive changes.





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Spot on -
I totally agree.
Thank you, Jon. Any “deal” on Social Security need only be 3 words; Raise. The. Cap.
Do we trust “Slender Reid” to hold the ground on this?
One of the things I hear being proposed is actually LOWERING the cap…… Dismal for sure.
I was at the post office this morning, engaged in a rousing political discussion with the entire line of people listening intently to myself and a couple of others.
People ARE waking up and they ARE angry. the only question is how do we channel this anger and turn it into a third party movement the likes of which just brought down Harper’s government in Canada?
Thanks for the post, Jon
I think we should do this with ending all 3 wars, bank regulation, cutting military spending to only twice what China spends, creating FDR type government jobs to get people working.
If you are willing to destroy a thing you can control a thing.
No we don’t trust Surrender Monkey Harry to get a spine or Nancy for that matter.
Yep.
And I love your accompanying picture. The thing that drove my parents more nuts than anything about me when I was a little girl was my stubbornness.
Yes! Say NO.
Obama needs a Shock to get us to give up our Social Security I am sure that a Shock is in the works. What kind of Shock I can’t say but with wars in the middle east, rebellions over jobs and high food prices, the Japanese nuclear accident it seems real shocks that hurt the Elite Ruling class are happening all on their own.
Can will Obama/the GOP create/risk another Shock specifically designed to make us think Social Security is broke? Can the World economic system survive another shock?
And you aren’t now…/s
I say we don’t cut anything but DO raise the cap. Why should the rich not have to pay the same percentage as everyone else? It is just another ffront in the class warfare being waged by the Fat Cats!
If all Democrats ran on “Scrap the cap” and “Tax the rich” things might be a lot less crappy, and they might win some more elections.
(Maybe.)
Once a ‘stubborn’ always a stubborn. *g*
I think raising the cap is fine but if you’re going to do that I think you should also allow for an opt out. Don’t want to pay into the system then don’t expect to get anything out of it. Pretty straight forward.
Jon,
Thank you for the post.
Your comment within the sentence “buy off the current senior vote by promising them all the pain will only be felt by young people…”
This argument as I see it will play directly into the hands of the teabuggers. What do they care what happens later as long as their SS, Medicare, Medicaid payments are on time and they are only looking at the
“now” not later.
As a senior, I would never agree to this argument as I have kids and as oldnslow said, “Raise the Cap.”
Ding.
Great idea and a totally winning strategy….If there were any progressives in the House or Senate…
I’ve made a point over the last week of harassing the Progressive caucus on twitter :)
Every bullshit thing they tweet, I reply to with the truth. It’s been fun pointing out just how republican they really are.
Good for you.
The answer usually given is that the rich wouldn’t get out of social security the same percentage as they would pay in if the cap was lifted.
Republicans will make some threat.
The Democrats will cave.
Wink, wink.
On the other hand, if Pelosi wants to get her groove back, fighting the good fights AND WINNING would help a lot.
This progressive strategy for Social Security – simply refusing to even think about allowing any changes in the program – is a winner.
But, that makes zombie Broder cry, and assumes someone in Congress actually gives a shit about S.S.
So the fuck what.
just lifting the cap on the payroll tax to give the program solvency forever
This pretty much is a NO Brainer but there are very few in either house that have a brain.
why are our Democratic leaders even considering taxing future seniors so that the Goopers can give tax cuts to the dead?
Tax the dead, not the elderly.
Cutting Social Security is a tax.
The goopers talk a lot about wanting to protect our children and grandchildren, but when it comes to action, they propose cuts to our kids’ and grandkids’Social Security.
If you really want care about and want to protect future generations, you dont take away their retirement.
Obama will try to end run Progressives on this issue. He has already put the frog in the pan with the Simpson-Bowles committee. Look for him to make a big display of fighting for, and then “compromising” on, on Social Security “reform”. He’ll do it with the Republicans behind closed doors and the Media will pile on to support him.
The rich can make more money from seniors who aren’t eating catfood than from seniors who have nothing.
Why should those who benefit most from the capitalist system be allowed to give nothing to help sustain the capitalist system that’s been so good to them?
The Wall Street Journal warns against a tax on the rich because their income can increase or decrease greatly from year to year – it is not stable like a sales tax on food that is steady because folks must eat.
Silly I know – but my first response was OK – keep the 35% top rate rather than Clinton’s 39.8% – but add a nice stable annual asset tax for assets over 1 million – say 1% graduated to 5% for assets over $100 million, with rules that combined all interests in trusts with personal assets.
Indeed I rather like that – and a 5% tax on someone with a billion would be 50 million – no doubt more than they pay on their 100 million of earnings.
Exactly. Have you considered running for Congress?
The rich don’t care about seniors. They steal from their own parents, for cryin’ out loud. Addicted to heroin or addicted to money. The only difference is the substance.
Hold on now. You can’t call it a tax and have that ideology stick because it requires more than 1 logical inference.
Republican voters can’t handle more than 1 logical inference.
Let’s focus on the budget and as for Social Security –
IT’S_NOT_IN_THE_BUDGET.
You are implying a “Means Test” iirc there is not one at this time. By allowing some to opt out is wrong this is an program for everyone earning a living on their wages.
Fixed it for ya.
The rich benefit in this society that allows them to become rich in the first place. The vast, overwhelming majority of them wouldn’t have two dimes to rub together if it wasn’t for the structure and protection society offers and ensures them. They can pay their fair share without getting “out of social security the same percentage as they would pay in if the cap was lifted” and not be any less wealthy. They should be happy to give something back to the system that has done such wonderful things for them.
True – Social Security was designed in 1936 to have a regressive flat tax and a progressive benefit calculation.
So it is not much of an argument against ending the cap – indeed ending the cap with that progressive benefit calculation unchanged means the system as a whole could reduce the total payroll tax for OASDI – 6.2% for both employee and employer becomes 4.2% for employee and 6.2% for employer.
Say – wasn’t Obama proud of his one year payroll tax reduction of 2% – remove the cap and we could have that stimulus every year! :-)
Tax the dead, not the rich.
But what about the children and grandchildren? Cutting social security benefits takes money out of the pockets of our kids and grandkids.
Tax the rich, not the middle class.
My heart would be pumping purple panther piss for them! Besides it is just chump change to them..
headedwest opt out? this is what Bush, Cheney, and other Rich People do when it is time to fight one of their stupid wars.
HeadedWest is a perfect example of what is wrong with our current Dems in DC.
Progressives it is o-kay to ignore Morons!
Obama the con man tries to make it cool for dems to speak and debate with Morons “GOPERS”
Without OBAMA and his other trojan horse buddies, the GOP would be a distant memory.
Because any rational human being would never speak with GOP nut jobs.
In 2012 our members will be supporting Dems who understand this simple fact speaking with morons is a complete waste of time. If you are a Dem and want to be like Obama always reaching across the aisle to speak with GOPers we will not be voting for U.
The trick Obama used was to raise the withholding tax at the same time. My paycheck went up one whole dollar but my withholding went up as well.
I think the fairest proposition here is to balance the budget on the backs of the rich. Any republican or conservative that argues that this isn’t a fair deal is full of shit.
These people have made their fortunes off of the twisted, slanted, criminal capitalism in this country. If they want to continue to have that opportunity they should be forced to support the economy they profit from. That’s it. It’s a really simple concept.
Nobody is suggesting knocking the rich down a peg, just taxing them in a way that will allow our economy to thrive. We obviously can’t trust them to create jobs so the only viable solution is a New Deal style jobs program by the government, funded by the additional tax revenue.
I firmly believe that Obama was hired by the rich to begin the process of steering Social Security into their pockets.
He’s not looking for a winning issue with the voters. He has his orders.
Yes opt out.
If someone wants to take the risk of managing for their own retirement who are the rest of us to stop them.
Should you be allowed to “opt out” of the income tax under the theory that you wouldn’t then expect the federal government to do anything for you?
Great Post!
When one looks around the globe and see all the conflicts and uprising, one says the USA rich needs to pay more.
Why? it is real simple, the USA military keeps your wealth safe
I think the Fed providing funds for worker-owned companies to rebuild our manufacturing base is better than the govt creating jobs.
Reply to many of you…
I agree with you 100%.
It goes like this,
If you and I pay in 12% of our average income, let’s say $48K/year we’ll eventually get out whatever average SS payments are, let’s say $1500/month in retirement.
If Bill Gates pays in 12% of his yearly income of $900,000 or a Billion or whatever, he’ll still only be entitled to the maximum SS payment, about $2000/month in retirement.
We all agree he doesn’t need the money in retirement. The only thing left to do is take the money from those who have more and give it to those who have less.
The only downside is, that’s called welfare. And the program was set up to avoid having it look like welfare.
Welfare in the U.S. is reserved for the rich.
The corporate media sure was pushing him hard on us. Unknown guy from Chicago gives a keynote address at the DNC in 2004, then before his first Senate term is up, he runs for president and wins. Very odd indeed.
I think that is pretty unrealistic don’t you? But SS on the other hand would be much more straight forward.
I assume you don’t want to participate in any of the the fruits of the society then?
You can’t just opt out of the program, and expect not to have to pay the price somewhere.
I’d be okay with dropping the cap, although it would mean higher taxes for me.
The obscene concentration of wealth in this country is destabilizing, as we’ve seen in the cooption of the two, main political parties. This will only reinforce itself unless there is some fairer distribution of wealth, and restored productive capacity and consumer demand. Cutting lifeline benefits to give tax cuts to the wealthy during a great recession/depression is not a good idea for any American.
That’s irrelevant. See my comment @33. If it wasn’t for being in the United States of America, Bill Gates wouldn’t be that rich. With privilege comes responsibility, something which conservatives are always fast to demand but even quicker to avoid.
The rest of us don’t stop them, the US Government does. You know, that entity that they’re beholden if they want to live and do business in the US?
If they don’t like that, they can fucking leave.
I don’t know, there seems to have been a lot of history prior to the enactment of the SS program
Agreed. We’re the largest consumers in the world, it makes no sense to not manufactur goods here. It’s just fucking stupid and greedy.
Do you know the following?
1 There wouldn’t even be much of a housing industry at all at this point if it was not for the U.S. government. Right now the U.S. government is either writing or guaranteeing well over 90 percent of all mortgages in the United States. So what would the housing market look like in 2011 if the government was not in the picture?
was the USG built to do this? well it is doing it
2 U.S. companies now create more jobs overseas than they do in the United States. Over the past year, American companies have created 1.4 million jobs overseas but less than a million jobs here at home.
did all of our brave soldiers die in all those wars so US companies could hire Chinese, Indians, Others, etc. over Americans? well so call US companies are doing this.
Bill Gates needs all of us to help protect his wealth from the Big Bad Chinese and Russians, the last time I check the US military budget was 1 trillion
how many of Bill Gates peers fight in wars?
USA companies have a lot of benefits, they don’t have to worry about Tomahawks putting them out of business.
So Bill Gates should smile when he pays his $900,000.00
If its being called welfare and allows seniors who have never had a job that pays enough to save for a pension, have never had a job that had a pension plan that’s fine with me. Call it whatever you want, I want seniors and children to have a roof over their heads and food on the table. Contrary to what most on the right think not everybody has a 401(k) or are able to put money into TIAA-CREF or some other pension plan.
For the opt-outs among us. The rich should pay , without cap, because the system in place, which has devalued the contributions made by the average wage earner, is one which has enabled you to accrue the wealth which you(and I, by the way) enjoy so greatly. You don’t make that money in a vacuum. It is, in many cases, the fact that the lower earners make so little, that creates the conditions under which you earn so much.
Try it on your own, truly on your own, and see what that gets you. I think you’d probably take the no cap deal, all things being intellectually honest and equal.
Great idea.
Let’s go to all voluntary taxes, with accompanying exclusion of those who choose not to pay, from benefits.
In fact, the program could be even better designed. Require those who don’t want to pay income taxes to BENEFIT from the taxes others pay by being required to live in Iraq or Afghanistan, where a large amount of U.S. military spending occurs. It’s a double-win for the rich!
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is ready for our perusal: Sorry, Jeb: the GOP’s “Hispanic Problem” Isn’t Just About Messaging
Didn’t you know? The rich all earned that money by being better and cleverer than everyone else. Even the ones who inherited their money only did so by the sweat of their brow and the exceedingly brilliant and admirable strategy of being born rich.
And their lawyers.
Isn’t it true that everybody posting here today paid more in taxes than General Electric did? What’s up with that?
An oligarchic plutocracy deforms the democratic process into a theater of the absurd…leading, perhaps, to blood in the streets.
(Not advocating violence, just remarking that desperate people will behave outside customary norms, and this was my point about concentrating wealth being politically destabilizing.)
Spot on Kris.. Howya doing today?
It is true and not only that but after posting a profit of 14.2 billion dollars and receiving a tax benefit of 3.2 billion, they are now going to demand wage and benefit concessions from their workers. Because they’re, you know, so destitute.
Because it is the LAW FOOL. What are they above the law that the rest of us must follow… Give it up HW. No one here would give any credence to Anything you have to say as you continually root for the FatCats… You are one of those with the attitude of “I got Mine and Fuck you I am not sharing nor do I want to pay anything like a fair share”..
I sure didn’t get an 8 figure tax refund.
Carlos Slim Helu is Mexican.
Just opened the email you sent me the other day again, and laughed so hard!
Great pic.
How are you?
I don’t have any problem with that. I was just explaining (to some others here) where the hang-up was for some people.
So what? He doesn’t pay into the American system but the Mexican one. The Mexican system enabled his wealth and he owes them for his success. That’s specious and irrelevant to everything I said. One or a million wealthy Mexican citizens doesn’t change what I said by one jot.
The Regressives and our libertarian friends have a problem helping anybody but themselves.
Slim made his fortune after the Mexican crash and the neoliberalization of Mexico. Wall Street banksters made him rich.
Glad you like them.. Doing OK for a Monday and without the freaking rain for a change… Seemed like we never noticed day light saving until this AM when it was so bright out… Was starting to suffer from SAD syndrome!!
the polls say Dems, GOP and Indies agree…NO CUTS to SS or Medicare…anyone who says make a deal is no progressive! I will not vote for anyone who approves of cuts now or ever…this BS that is being floated that anyone over 55 will be safe and the cuts will be only for those younger is crap…SS needs to be expanded for all of us now and forever,,,,if the Congress wants to cut let them cut their pensions
Obama tries to make it cool to speak and debate with people like you. I don’t
If a USA company moves most of their Jobs out of the USA, this = opting out on the USA,
I think the USA military should send them a bill, for protection services. Tomahawks can put you out of business.
I also think that companies that hire Chinese, Indians, and others over Americans should give up their US citizenship, because they are not putting the USA first.
Like you, I think our US Soldiers should have the right to opt of wars that they feel don’t really benefit the USA. Libya is no threat to the USA, Iraq is no threat to the USA.
However, if a company like EXXONS wants to bomb Iraq, Libya, etc. let them pay for it and find the people to fight for their oil.
US soldiers should only fight nations that threaten the USA main land.
this opting out thing you like has potential! :)
Do you think USA citizens should have the rights to Libya and Iraq oil reserves, because USA citizens are dying in these wars?
Or do you think USA citizens should fight in these wars and give the Oil Rights for Libya and Iraq to BP and Exxon?
I’m far from “having mine” I’m just not going to hold any resentment or petty jealousy towards someone that has become more successful than me through either hard work or luck.
Easy enough,
move to another country.
Tsk, tsk, tsk! Jedi, where are all your links for all those facts! Please?
Heh, just be glad we’re not still subjected to OBAMA THE TROJAN HORSE rants.
You, stubborn? Really? I never woulda guessed.
Furthermore, even if they did, chances are they lost large portions of it or possibly even all as the economy blew up, their 401K managers made bad investments (CDSs and such) with their money, and they lost their homes and jobs.
I wish to opt out of paying federal income tax because my taxes go to support wars I feel strongly are immoral. I don’t get to do that–you don’t get to opt out of SS because you disapprove of it.
Having a “Progressive Strategy” for, well, just about anything, is like the plan for an unarmed man going into a gunfight at the OK Corral. What the hell are Progressives going to do but fire letters and telephone calls to congressmen who don’t give a fark? I’m the farthest thing from a doom and gloomer, but I think we do need to stay reality-based. It has been demonstrated extremely clearly that there is not a Progressive in Congress who won’t cave when they are told to. Electoral Politics and policy fights are done.
Amazing what can happen to your retirement fund when they get sold AAA rated junk. But, there’s no fraud in our economy. Nosirreee…
That’s an opt-out I can believe in.
Yep. True worker-ownership is the key. Everybody has a vested interest in designing, making, and supporting the best products, and everybody shares in the success.
Back to work.
Namaste
The only problem with the strategy Jon outlined is that it doesn’t take into account the need to ass-kiss the uber-rich in order to get those campaign contributions, you know, the things that count more than votes.
Job Fair Shut Down Due to Lack of Jobs
What is wrong with the statement above? Ann
Go to this link
http://economyincrisis.org/content/job-fair-shut-down-due-lack-jobs
Ann in Az, Alan1tx, HeadedWest, I want to thank all of you!
the Intelligent left always knew if we let your ideas spread across the USA, this would make destroying the GOP very easy.
Obama never inspired the Dem Base like Gov. Walker has.
Gov. Walker antics also made it easy for us to destroy Blue Dogs, and trojan horses like OBAMA.
Our 4 million plus members hate Dems that talk to GOPERS and campaign about working with GOPers, this would not have happen without Gov. Walker
every DEM in DC knows that the DEM base is piss, and if you are a weak Dem that likes reaching across the aisle to speak with GOPers, your career in the DEM party will end fast.
in 2012 U will see a new type of Dem coming to DC, one who hates the GOP and we can thank Gov. Walker for that.
LOL!
PS: Trolling on Blogs is so 2008
you all will never see where the real magic happens
I believe he’ll accomplish what Bush couldn’t do in eight years. Dismal prospect.
You have been here for a while – yet you play the strawman implying “end the wage cap” means end for payroll tax only – and keep it for benefit calculation.
Please memorize this – end the cap means for most end the cap for both benefits and payroll tax – thus NO WELFARE.
Giving million dollar checks to the already rich is no problem – ending the cap is a 2% of payroll reduction, paying larger benefits to the rich is 0.15 increase in the tax – a small price to pay to stop with the WELFARE NONSENSE.
Indeed Reagan’s taxing 50% of Social Security over a given level (now 85%) idea/law just makes the no cap idea with a no cap on either payroll tax or benefits idea even better.
Don’t be so smugly certain that the Democrats will not acquiesce to Republican demands to cut Social Security. Not only are they closer to realizing their decades-long dream than they ever have been, but they have a compliant Democrat in the White House who has proven all too willing to do whatever Wall Street wants him to do — and Wall Streets wants Social Security gone.
Agree 100%.
My only argument with that is that I (like you) would start with 1% (but at 5 million) and graduate it to 20% annual for amounts over one billion in assets. I imagine we two could find a compromise between our positions.
A) Why not? They are out to get us.
B) Hereditary aristocracy and democracy are completely incompatible – as proved by the best government money can buy, right here.
If everybody with an income above 50k paid the same overall percentage of their taxes as my wife and I do (including income, SS, Medicare, and state and local), we could cut everybody’s taxes at least 20%. In fact, since their disposable income is so much greater than ours, the percentage they pay should be much higher. That was the original intent of progressive taxation, now subverted by the wealthy, who have shifted all but a trivial amount of taxation down to the lower classes.
GE’refund cost every human in the country ten bucks. I don’t remember voting for that.
The standard deduction should be 35k (as it was in Japan a decade ago) with all income collected by the federal government (rebated to states on a per capita basis, who must rebate it to localities on a fixed per capita basis and abolish all state and local taxes.)
I will say this again…we need to march on DC…there was a rally today in DC and according to HuffPO it was great…Chuck and Harry was there…but we should not depend on just them,,,we should also demand companies and the rich pony up and need 401k reforms,,,force the wall bastards to repay OUR money to US…
Yup.
Nothings helps congresscritters see reason like a million or so annoyed citizens in DC.
I still maintain that if we had – peacefully – surrounded congress, holding vigils, singing, and reading names of victims of our murderous insurance companies and system 24/7, we would have a public option by now – if not Medicare for all.
We two sure could find an agreement – easily – :-)
Asset tax – NOW!
:-)