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At 2pm EDT we’ll begin broadcasting live from Quantico Marine Base in Virginia, where a protest for accused WikiLeaks whistleblower Bradley Manning will take place with veterans and supporters, including former Pentagon whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg.
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Will Bogus barry be watching , inquiring minds would like to know ?
Thank you for this! I wanted to be there but could not get time off. I am disgusted by ObamaHolder INC & the military for treating a whistleblower in this manner! The BushCheny Crime Syndicate has succeeded in twisting & corrupting every American institution, including & especially the military. Their going along with the two illegal wars without so much as a protest until they were safely retired speaks to the degradation of the military leadership. The dramatic increase of the use of private contractors & mercenaries is an equally clear indication that our government has been corrupted to the very top.
ObamaHolder Inc has successfully achieved continuity with the gaggle of thieves, liars & cheats of the BushCheney Crime Syndicate.
Keep Mike Malloy safe! He is an important teller of truth to the fascists currently locked in an endeavor to subvert our little experiment in democracy into a totalitarian state!
Keep up the EXCELLENT work!!
Free Bradley Manning … He’s an American HERO!!!
@michaelwhitney tweeting there is “insane police presence at Quantico” “submachine guns”
Once again they think they can scare the dfh’s. Good luck with that.
jaysus!
hi pups,
is anyone seeing a livestream. i’m not.
me either
If Army Pfc. Bradley Manning did what he has been charged with doing by the U.S. military, then he did it for 6.5 billion reasons, and one of them is you.
@michaelwhitney tweeting -
we need a no fly zone over quantico to protect the peacefully protesting people from our government.
thank you very much, cbl, for posting the tweets for those of us that don’t tweet.
Why do the police hate the memory of fallen Marines?
https://twitter.com/#!/popularch/status/49525394151456768
David House tweeting:
MP5 = submachine gun, ‘flexible, utilitarian’
Waiting. Are we being jammed by the Obama administration like protests are jammed in Libya, Iran, Bahrein, China and Cuba?
Funny how heavily armed people are so often terrified of unarmed peaceful protesters.
Or not.
What, these clowns thought the base was gonna be invaded? Protesters don’t see this kinda crap at the annual School of the Americas protests.
And the point being made by the State would be that American citizens don’t have the right to protest peacefully?
cbl, I’m still trying to get the hang of twitter… Are you following a particular hashtag or particular people? Thanks for any suggestions you have for those of us among the twitter-impaired ; )
fyi – have tweeted michael whitney – assuming he is deep in to making the live stream happen – recalling it was Michael who made the Prop 19 events work when no one else could
Yeah. Didn’t he have to literally come and take over a few of the faltering ones?
phred – in this case, I am simply following @michaelwhitney, @janehamsher, and @popularch (David House, Bradley’s friend and visitor)
p.s. totally cool in twitterverse to follow any one, unlike FB where they have to “friend” you. also okay for you to look at who anyone is following and click on ‘em yourself, same with anyone’s “followers”
I’ll dive in and get us some hashtags
one thing’s for sure.
where bradley manning is concernd, the military is superb at overplaying its hand.
are the armed “police” civilian, local police or are they mp’s?
Yes Michael is at Quantico with the camera. He’s with David House.
Katie didn’t do well yesterday with me away all day so I’ll be here at home on blogging duty.
i’m NOT seeing the livestream – why?
Where I am it’s 10:24 AKDT. 24 minutes late, but no live broadcast yet.
Please Stand By
It’s not up for me either. Something must have gone wrong.
These protesters are a headache and annoyance. They’re making getting on and off base a nightmare. Go protest in DC or somewhere with open space!
is this quantico or guantanamo?
or quantanamo?
or guantico?
at home ? …but . . . what will Shoq tweet about now ?!?! :D
and we’re up!
hard to tell the difference of late
Heavily armed personnel guarding a military base from a peaceful demonstration is an “OK” response from the military. Translation of “OK” = “Over Kill”
I’ve got the live blog embedded now at Progressive Alaska. Thanks, everyone!
Thanks so much — I appreciate the advice!
I’m willing and eager to contribute $$($) for a video streamer to replace the suckey ad-infused USTREAM packet
who is it making the intro remarks?
x2
The treatment of Bradley Manning may be “ridiculous, counterproductive, and stupid,” but it sure ain’t pointless.
Similarly, this reaction to protestors may be “ridiculous, counterproductive, and stupid,” but it sure ain’t pointless.
I can’t even see it with this connection.
Someday, and I hope it’s soon, Firedoglake will be able to afford the best. Meanwhile, we learn as we go…
Man, the live feed blows dead goats.
former Quantico Company Commander now speaking – anyone catch is name ?
Perhaps i will wait for the youtube later.:(
Ann Wright has more intestinal fortitude than any of the people inside the govt.
She is awesome. I first met her out at Crawford with Cindy Sheehan.
Jane and Michael – thanks so much for making this possible! Just got back midnight last night from a 10-day Caribbean cruise, so have been (regrettably) unable to participate in any of the March 19 events. Had a layover at JFK airport yesterday, but nothing was going on there.
has anyone heard how many people are protesting at quantico?
Based objectively on the detention conditions and treatment of Pfc. Manning while in pre-trial confinement: QMCB = BDSM.
#mar20 = good hashtag for info and links both global and domestic
twitter newbies – type it, tweet it – once it appears on your page, you can click on it to go to that thread
I met her when she campaigned for Samm Simpson when she was running against Bill Young in FL-10. Wish I could have been at Crawford.
The current speaker is from Defenders For Freedom, Justice & Equality (“Richmond Defenders”) which “is an all-volunteer organization based in Richmond, Virginia.”
Chant: “Show me what justice looks like! This is what justice looks like!” Peace!
Somebody needs to lose that whistle.
So free Bradley Manning & you won’t have any more problems. It’s not about the messengers, you know.
Daniel Ellsberg speaking … remembering about being a Marine.
It takes only one phone call from President Obama to free Bradley Manning. President Obama, make that call!
Awwwww, poor baybeeee.
Maybe the protestors should concern themselves more with the inconvenience they’re causing everyone at the base…
As I said, it’s not about the messengers.
It’s about the message. So long as it’s peaceful, I don’t think they should care about how much they’re inconveniencing anyone at the base. That was my only point.
If someone is viewing this in real time. Please ! Please ! I’m begging you. Grab that whistle for the remainder of the coverage. Its right by the audio feed and is absolutely piercing !!
aw rats, it just went down again as david hauser started speaking.
on edit: david house
David House: “When I visit Bradley Manning at QMCB brig and tell him about all the people who support him, his eyes … light … up!”
Convenience is the utilitarian, decision-making criterion of the neo-liberal model for consumer-slaves. Freedom is inconvenient, courage is inconvenient, peace is inconvenient. If convenience is your summun bonum and sine qua non and highest moral value, then maybe you simply don’t get the message of Pfc. Bradley Manning and Daniel Ellsberg among others.
Since so many of you military types seem to want to take credit at every opportunity for “protecting our rights”, you at least ought to be proud and honored to be a little inconvenienced by the presence of those protesters today.
my hopes and aspirations as a parent are that my kids have the integrity of David House
Don’t know about your others but I think Kris is there.
Well put.
How many tax $$$ are being spent on the absurd amount of security?
Haven’t these people ever heard of austerity?
Taps being played on a harmonica right now … Folks with media pass and wreaths being allowed in by police. You can hear helicopters hovering above. Group moving across road to the Iwo Jima Monument; everyone else has to stay behind.
that cop must be from Wisconsin
Very well put! I agree 100%. What I meant was that they should concern themselves even more with inconveniencing everyone at the base, i.e. focus on getting their message heard and care less about inconveniencing anyone running the base. I should have been clearer @ 58.
Turns out that the wreaths are not allowed to be laid on the memorial but at a fence or barricade around it.
Methinks the police are gonna be a little embarrassed tomorrow at their kowtowing to the base commander’s fear of protesters.
Just stop the torture . Your discomfort is nothing.
The group behind the barricades is watching the wreath laying ceremony from afar and chanting, “Free Bradley Manning!”
I need a new battery!
We have retro ISP service here; so missed much of what you were broadcasting. Hope you will post video version–looked great; heard a bit of Daniel Ellsberg’s talk and the following speaker.
Thanks again, for covering this important protest. I had already contacted my Senator Murray (mom in tennis shoes) about stopping this treatment. It’s outrageous.
:-)))
Intermittent video but static
no sound… Slow-moving video frames …Jane noted on twitter that mass arrests are beginning.
According to one of the speakers at the protest today: “Nothing happens at Quantico Marine Corps Base brig that does not follow the orders of POTUS, the Commander-In-Chief.” POTUS has clemency powers to pardon Pfc. Manning in the event of a guilty verdict for any charge at a court-martial, effectively reducing Manning’s sentence to “time served.”
Some Virginia State Police (VSP) have Bradley Manning stickers (pink or orange) on their clear riot shields.
The line of Virginia State Police, wearing riot gear for crowd control at the protest rally, held their clear shields in front of them, and each shield had a round, orange sticker saying “Free Bradley Manning” with his profile in black. Wonderful.
..
That was quite a view eh?
Maybe the government should concern itself more with the inconvenience it’s causing to the Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which prohibits cruel and unusual punishment (doubly so in the absence of a conviction).
Doncha think?
Cue the “No-fly Zone” next.
One of the most original posters at this QMCB rally said: “Caution: Whistleblower Torture Zone” like giant crime-scene tape, held about 12 feet high in the air, about 1 foot wide, and about 12 feet long, attached to a pole at each end.
I see that the Mutant Ninja Turtles are out in force…
Just saw one person in a passing frame of the live feed that is on the ground with the police standing near them. Looks like an arrest in progress.
http://twitter.com/janehamsher
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
Nice shots of David House in the live feed. { waving … Hi David! } :-)
Yeah, I just saw that. Nice.
David House is shown speaking on his cell phone and wearing his black, woven, paracord bracelet which he must remove before being allowed to visit Bradley Manning in the QMCB brig. Maybe David might slip the bracelet through the small speaking aperture in the bullet-proof glass partition that separate him from Bradley during their visits while three Marine guards are within earshot. And then maybe Bradley might unravel the parachute cord and fashion a hangman’s knot and suspend himself from the bars of his cell door late one night. Evidently, the realistic distinction between the possible and the probable is not contained in any military order or rule.
That whine was cheesy enough without adding any.
The stream just went off the air.
President Barack Obama says he’s been reassured by the military that Bradley Manning is being treated properly.
To quote Humphrey Bogart from “Casablanca,” he appears to have been misinformed.
Hey, President Obie, pick up the phone and call Manning yourself!
LMAO! Right? Give me a break!
Something tells me fudgebunny is a sock puppet. Just registered for that puerile quip.
*gasp* And reach outside the bubble?!? Surely you jest.
Looks like the logistical planning was non-existent for the live stream. Anyone there have an extra battery or better aircard?
War porn everywhere. Not a whisper about Manning.
Yeah, I saw that. Read Siun’s name as Sam then noticed my error. Never seen “Sam” here. Eyes gettin’ old. Blush.
Everyone is lining up for arrest by the State Police. Daniel Ellsberg said recently that he is 80 years old and has been arrested by the police in the U.S. 80 times. He was arrested just yesterday in WDC at another rally to commemorate the Eight Anniversary of the (Illegal) Iraq War. So now, he is 80 years old and has been arrested by police 82 times.
What was I thinking? Mea culpa, mea culpa…
No doubt, Fusion Center at work. Thank you Homeland Security!
As far as I know, this is the first time FDL has done this. As such, I’m willing to cut them some slack about the lack of high-tech…
I would too if I could afford the legal fees, in and out of jail …
so all I can do now is cheer!!!
glad to be free to do that
and feeling fortunate they have a live feed set up at all
A Micah Ian Wright image to go with your post: http://bit.ly/igmc2G
Yeah, but you would think someone would have done a little site reconnaissance to make sure the aircard worked in that area…and everyone knows to pack extra batteries. That’s Logistics 101.
I was thinking this was a first livestream too. Once I saw some sitting down I’ve been there before so missing on vid isn’t that big of a deal. If there’s any evil doin’s by the heat there are plenty of folks with still and video cameras to catch it.
It’ll give David, et al, and the techies a chance to play with some new toys. But, Mom, we need a lot of test time with this new gear.
I saw film-making grade cameras being held by others within the group assembled at Quantico. Is FDL the only group doing live streaming?
Or perhaps there is some interference coming from inside the base. I’m sure they can routinely interrupt signals within their spheres of influence.
Doubtful. Especially if MSM is there to cover. Are there any live trucks there? Anyone know?
VFP’s site isn’t carrying it. Site needs to be updated.
BraveNewFilms is prolly there.
I know Lackland does such things. Again routinely. Why is it doubtful in your view?
And why is your entire commenting history only about Manning? That makes me awfully suspicious of your cred.
That would be up their alley …
Warning: Psyops in progress.
Gitsum’s comments on this thread leave no doubt as to which side he’s on.
I’m old enough to remember when Pentagon propaganda operations within the US were illegal.
Margaret, he’s said he’s a Marine so his whole thing has been that the Marines are doing nothing wrong at any point throughout the whole process. So consider the source.
Thanks to all the souls who showed up for justice. Obama is a disgrace.
Wake up Edward. Come out of your trance. The enemy is within. Bradley Manning did what the Constitution said to do. The enemy is Obama and the Democratic CRIME FAMILY. Register in the Green Party. Its the progressives who are wrecking America.
Quantico isn’t really that kind of base. Most of the activity at Quantico is academic or plans-oriented. I doubt they have that kind of tech, and even if they did it would also affect police radios, etc.
I feel grateful to FDL for the photojournalism and reporting on the QMCB protesters’ rally, live and streaming video, or any other photo media, that gives me a multi-sensory, vicarious feeling of “being there” and sharing in the experience. Jane and David were simultaneously juggling several roles before and during this rally, not just simply being one of the protesters, and it may have been a learning experience for them on one or more levels. Their effort is commendable. I trust that more viewers will find a way to support their efforts.
Sander, its the progressives who elected Obama. Register Green and defeat all the Democrats.
Got it! Thanks for the update. He sounds like many of the Jarheads I knew when I was in the Navy. I guess the pseudonym should have given it away. Sounds like the over macho shit they all used to grunt, sometimes in unison. Misspelled of course.
I’ll have what you’re having.
Knoxville, the state is the Democrat Party you progressives keep electing. Register Green and defeat all the Democrats. Quit whining.
Thanks to FDL for covering this and helping organize it when everybody else seems to be up to their armpits in war porn.
Like we have a choice…
From Jane’s Twitter feed:
Lackland is a Basic Training and Technical School base so wouldn’t have that kind of mission either, yet they do.
Here’s an interesting memo I picked up on Twitter — internal marine memo expressing their concern about “denial of service” attacks having something to do with protesters:
https://cryptbin.net/?id=Z7T-
Lackland is Air Force, correct? I don’t know what kind of equipment the Air Force has compared to what the Marine Corps gets, but we’re usually last in line for new, high-speed gear.
I’m not completely opposed to the possibility that it COULD occur, I just think it’s unlikely. Besides, this appeared to be a Virginia State Police operation, not Marine Corps (from the video anyway.)
No doubt because Wilford Hall isn’t really a hospital at all but a secret weapons lab…. That crap used to happen all the time and I’m sure it still does. It used to frustrate the doctors no end.
Oh wow, so that might be why the feed went down. Anyone have an update on what’s happening there? I’m sorry to have not been able to go.
Anymore arrest information?
Oh, they have that capability, and then some. Everything at Quantico isn’t always what it seems.
That said, I don’t harbor any conspiracy theories that the marines are blocking any transmissions over the protest today.
Nor do I have any ill will toward the marines in general. They’re great Americans for the most part, but like any institution one or two assholes ruins the image of them, in this case it’s the leadership because this bullshit of torturing an innocent person on US soil has GOT to stop.
Book Salon up with Dan Gillmor’s Mediactive hosted by Barry Eisler
Well that much is true anyway. You guys were still flying F-4s in the mid to late 1980s. A never ending source of amusement for some of us.
Covered yesterday here
That was printed and discussed somewhere a day or two ago. Here? Glenzilla? Sorry, can’t remember. I spend too much time on the interwebs!
The name gitsum may possibly be related to something said by guys in Nam, “Get Some”. The meaning should be self explanatory.
I have to respectfully disagree. As a pacifist I do not find the Marines laudable. Are they brave in the face of physical harm? I suppose so. But we need to find non violent means to resolve conflicts instead of training sadists who love a fight.
OOPS. My bad.
Good job, good coverage FDL!
At least the Marines haven’t been so afraid anyone has started shooting like at Kent State. Just reading about the tweets in real time is so surreal.
Yep. That’s what I figured too. It’s just so stereotypical.
I understand. I am not a pacifist (obviously, since I’m a veteran myself) and believe that sometimes in this world there can be real evil and real threats and when faced with that real evil or real threat I’ll always feel better knowing the marines are there.
At least that’s how I felt until recently. Now that it seems to me the entire USG is nearing actual fascism, then I begin to question everything. Obviously not much a fan of a bunch of thugs in the hands of fascists, if that’s what the corps turns into.
Ah, thanks to both you and MsMolly. There’s a lot going on here, and it’s hard to keep track of all of it.
Hey, don’t be knockin’ my Phantoms. *g*
Not just the planes, cobra support aircraft, m-60 tanks, even older small arms were used on purpose. It’s part of the culture, and they’ll blame funding every time.
Great plane, wrong decade =P
Amen…I often try to think when we quit being a country in pursuit of peace. Ive read some comments here that opines we never were; I do not quite accept that. But in recent years it seems like we have pursued the excuse to intervene….for a long time I was not cynical enough to think MIC. Very sad for the waste in resources and lives.
Just guys being funny, I guess;)
I am a pacifist, (and a veteran), but I’m also a realist and I know that good will and friendly gestures aren’t always going to be an effective or rational responses in the world in which we all live. The Marines I knew for the most part were honorable, (if overly macho), trustworthy and decent people. I also try to avoid subscribing to stereotyping. There are many, many reasons people join the services and they are even more understandable during economic hard times. That said, your point about our government and what it seems to be turning into is well taken. These days I don’t know that I could reconcile my beliefs with joining the service. It was hard enough in the 80s though I was just an airframe mechanic. I don’t know that I could do it now.
Bein’ a vet and a pacifist at the same time isn’t incompatible. Being a vet may give a person a solid base to become a pacifist.
Your Phantoms were wonderful birds in their day. By my day however, they were past Phantom and all the way into Fossil. XD
Or it could be a quote from “Full Metal Jacket.” But in reality it comes from a three week detachment to India. The most memorable moment was a little boy holding his hand out saying “Get some? Get some?” He was asking for anything we would hand out. Unfortunately, the only thing we had to hand out what the crap we didn’t want from our MREs.
While Marines don’t shy away from a fight, we’re not always looking for one either.
But they’re so pretty.
Physical courage is a mark of the brave.
Moral courage is the mark of the bravest of the brave, like diminutive Pfc. Bradley Manning.
Any conditioned, servile robot can evince mere physical bravery, but only a deeply thinking person can rise to the heights of genuine moral bravery.
The world needs more individuals like Pfc. Manning.
I put a diary out on the “Orange Satan” using your tweets as material:
Protests at Quantico for Bradley Manning Protests
Well said.
Yeah, I get it, I think.
During the times of draft it’s obvious some pacifists would get drafted, and become veterans; I guess I was thinking that if I were a pacifist that I no way I would’ve volunteered like I did (the draft had ended not long before I volunteered).
Sorry for the mistake, I do see your point about it giving a person a solid base to become a pacifist.
I’m hip. See my 151. There are a lot of veterans on this site but it’s important for active duty service members to keep in mind that veteran or otherwise, it’s us that they work for.
Have the “Leave Obama Alooooooooooooooooooone” responses started rolling in yet?
Oh? Is that humor then? I guess I don’t get the joke. :)
Very well said.
And this PFC is showing more courage than some of the marines at Quantico who are much higher in rank.
If the orders to torture an innocent American citizen is coming from up the chain of command, then the commander of the brig should show courage and refuse to follow an unlawful order, and resign if necessary, IMO.
We see no such courage from ANYONE in the middle to upper levels of the military or the civilian branch of the government anymore it seems (although PJ Crowley recently showed some). But in issues besides this one, folks have gotten so authoritarian (or our government has) that they follow the orders legality be damned.
I agree with Margaret above, I’m not sure I could’ve in good faith volunteered for this country if it were like this. I know this country hasn’t always been the angels we learn of in school, but dammit I just don’t believe we were ever this far down the rabbit hole of authoriatarian fascism.
Speaking as a student of history, I don’t think we ever have either. It seems like every time the pendulum swings to the right, it swings further right. They are going to ruin us as a nation.
And freaking LOUD.. I know.. I did my basic at FT Dix in 66 right at the end of a runway!! When the F-4′s took off they were in full after burner and only 100 feet over our heads while in formation.. DI Always got pissed we we all looked up as they went over head… Man those freaking planes caused me & my fellow trainees many a push-up… sigh..
Next step up from neoliberalism. The megacorporations and banks control Congress and the White House. For now we’re free to express ourselves while the monied elites are free to exploit labour, resources, etc. Just how far down the road is control by force, ignoring the current wiretapping, sneak and peak, etc?
LMAO! Try sleeping on the 04 level under the number two wire someday.
Hawaii Air National Guard was flying them for “air defense” of the islands when I was out there late ’70s/early ’80s. Hickam shared the runways with HI so we got quite used to seeing the F4s blasting off when at the Hickam Harbor Beach
Wow, that’s well said.
When I was ridin’ destroyers, before Nam, we’d be operating with a carrier and the Officer of the Deck would ask the carrier for a fly by so the men could get a close look at a Phantom in flight. That sucker would come in parallel to the ship at bridge level (30 feet) and go burners just as he got adjacent to the bridge. Brought the Old Man out of his cabin in a heartbeat.
Well stated. Thanks!
I would use the present continuous rather than the future. Am hoping it’s too early to use the present perfect.
Why I went into the Army, of course they promised a year of electronic training and instead of going to Vietnam I spent two years in Germany… Very luck of me.
Yet as loud as they were, F-14s made them sound whisper quiet. F-14A intakes are enormous by comparison and the diffuser ramps at sonic make them absolutely scream.
Wow, how precise….nicely done. We’ll keep hoping….
For any of those attending that may read this thread later, I just want to sincerely apologize for not being there. I live less than an hour from Quantico and had every intention of being there, but my health over the last few weeks wouldn’t allow it.
THANK YOU, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, for being there. It is IMPERATIVE that you/we continue this fight. Even when it seems there’s so few of us as to not matter, IT MATTERS!! As long as the flame of resistance is lit, then one day things will be made right. The only way we lose if we ever let the flame go out completely. Bless each of you out there today, fighting for what’s RIGHT, even if not popular.
It’s the ESL instructor in me :)
Our first responsibility to ourselves is to take care of our health. In the long run, we’ll be able to do more for the values we believe in that way.
Old, Thanks for your thoughts and hopes. Take care of yourself as well.
My best. We’re all in.
The foundation of all fascism, in whatever guise, exists in all societies in all eras. The foundation of fascism is emotional plague, and it is explained by William Reich briefly in the clasic, brief book entitled “Listen, Little Man!” and fully explained in his classic study entitled “The Mass Psychology of Fascism.” Both books are highly recommended.
The emotional plague afflicts everyone. Emo-plagued or armored parents produce emo-plagued or armored children, as illustrated by Ivan Turgenev in his novel entitled “Fathers and Sons” in the English edition, but titled “Fathers and Children” in the original Russian.
Relatively rare individuals, such as Pfc. Bradley Manning, ever have an experience of living a natural, genuine, disarmored, unconditioned, free life. Everyone else is, by default, emo-plagued, armored, and a fascist in the most basic sense of psychic structure.
As the author of the cartoon Pogo wrote in his most memorable, iconic frame: “We have met the enemy, and they are us!”
The emotional plague, psychic plague or armoring strikes everyone, regardless of gender, ethnicity, sect, party, faction or other artificial division of humankind.
OT: NPR just did a fantastic piece on the writer of the score, and the score, for the Social Network film…can probably listen online. Really good.
BOGUS Barry – always capitalize the Secret Service acronym.
Take care of yourself OFG. I don’t think anybody here would begrudge you that.
Thanks a lot bluewombat and RevBev and Margaret, I’ll try not to beat myself up too badly for not making it, but a few blows have been landed. *g*
And thanks for that education Humanist. It’s a little depressing, but does make it easier to understand the world we live in.
How can we make more Pfc Manning’s??? Or are they “born” and not made?
my thanks and admiration to michael whitney and those who helped him organize and promote yesterday’s and today’s fine demonstrations.
my thanks also to jane hamsher and the fdl site for making michael’s work possible.
Almost every human being, at least those born into so-called civilized culture, suffers social conditioning at the hands of the societal agents closest to her or him, mainly parents, teachers, clerics and political leaders.
Every such individual generally has two educations. The first is provided as social conditioning. The second, which may or may not ever occur, is provided by each individual for herself or himself, by introspection, for example.
Ironically, I was just threatened with arrest at the Martin Luther King Jr. Center in Atlanta for distributing a petition to end the torture of Bradley Manning. Otherwise, the event was fairly effective: a decent number of activists collected signatures to submit to Rep. John Lewis, also a victim of state abuse.
By whom and why?
I remember that the Air Force F105′s were louder than the Phantoms because they would sit on the end of the runway with a full load and turn up all the way and then hit afterburner–BOOM–to start their takeoff roll.
What bothers me about Manning is that he can’t really be that dumb, can he? I mean, if he did manage to download and pass all that classified material to Wikileaks, could he really be dumb enough to brag about it to a known asshat like Lamo? That would be stupid beyond belief, to the point of moronic unless he wanted to be caught.
Don’t flame me. I just cannot believe that story, and without Lamo proving a direct connection from Manning to Wikileaks prosecution gets a lot harder. And furthermore, someone in the upper echelons should be losing their eagles if they allowed a Private to access all that information. What happened to the “need to know” between 1970 and 2010? In 1970 I had access to some classified information, but only that which pertained to what I was actually working on–not to everything in every file–and I wasn’t a Private. Crazy.
A park ranger informed us that we were not permitted to collect signatures at the MLK center — outside of a small path encircling a Gandhi statue, far from most foot traffic. As we were leaving, two pedestrians (including one veteran) asked to sign the petition, and at that moment the ranger pulled up beside us (with a shotgun) and angrily delivered a “final warning” to leave the property, which is public property, as far as I know.
On deeper reflection, maybe Pfc. Manning chatting online with Adrian Lamo was not stupid at all, assuming that an online chat actually occurred between them. A superficial analysis might come to the conclusion that Manning was stupid to “confess” to Lamo. The key point of departure is that Pfc. Manning is NOT stupid, so all other unexamined assumptions must be questioned.
Furthermore, the alleged Manning-Lamo chats may provide evidence to some of the charges, but not all of them.
Additionally, it is impossible to identify the real individual who was chatting with Lamo in those chat logs, even if the chat logs can be verified. And therefore, according to the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice, the alleged chat logs are inadmissible as evidence for any of the charges against Pfc. Manning, at the pre-trial hearing (equivalent to a civil grand jury panel) and possibly at the court martial itself.
I won’t flame you despite the intemperate nature of your rhetoric.
We have to remember that Bradley Manning is a 23-year-old soldier from Crescent, Oklahoma, pop. 1281. I’m not saying country boys aren’t sharp sometimes, but that doesn’t sound like a hotbed of urbane and worldly sophistication.
Being out in Iraq, he probably felt isolated and morally conflicted about what had done and was reaching out to someone for moral support. In one sense, he picked the wrong person, but in another sense, he didn’t.
Because Mr. Lame-O turned out to be a worthless, backstabbing Judas, we have on-line chat logs, which, if they are accurate, show that Manning’s intentions were noble, courageous and patriotic, rather than self-serving, venal or treasonous.
That’s my two cents, anyway.
And at the MLK Center, of all places? The ranger should be fired.
You said: “I’m not saying country boys aren’t sharp sometimes, but that doesn’t sound like a hotbed of urbane and worldly sophistication.”
There is no known, reliable, valid connection between genuine “intelligence” (not to be confused with measured IQ) and “urbane and worldly sophistication”, which is merely a product of social conditioning to reduce naturally intelligent individuals to unthinking robots. Urbanity and sophistication are, almost by definition, artificial, phony, fraudulent, superficial and shallow.
Likewise for the factors of age, native home population or population density, isolation (physical or otherwise), (presumed) moral conflict, or morally challenged (needing moral support).
Pfc. Bradley Manning is superior in genuine intelligence to Adrian Lamo and greatly superior in genuine intelligence to everyone at the Quantico Marine Corps Base, regardless of all other factors, all of which are irrelevant and obfuscatory.
When the line of reasoning begins with the premise of a well-above-average genuine intelligence of Pfc. Bradley Manning, the argument has a chance of reaching a valid and sound conclusion, but not otherwise.
Ummn, I was defending him, not attacking him.
Yes, I understand the gravamen of your comment. But you began with a statement about “country boys” (rural residents and youth) and extended it to several other factors which reflected prejudice and bias. Genuine intelligence is fairly evenly distributed across all of the factors you mentioned, according to published scientific studies. If one seeks truth, then one does not take sides before making conclusory statements.
You concluded by saying: “we have on-line chat logs, which, if they are accurate, show that Manning’s intentions were noble, courageous and patriotic, rather than self-serving, venal or treasonous.”
None of the factors you mentioned are necessary to reach your conclusion. According to Ockham’s Razor (or Occam’s Razor), the principle of parsimony, the unnecessary factors should be eliminated, and even more so if they are biased from the beginning.
It is possible to disagree with your conclusion and still support Pfc. Bradley Manning even if he did what the U.S. government has accused him of doing.
Peace.
MCB Quantico is home to the Provost Marshal, USMC; headquarters for Marine Corps Snipers; the presidential helicopter squadron, HMX-1; and the FBI National Academy and psychological profiling unit, the former Behavioral Analysis Unit.
As a Marine you should be more concerned with telling the truth or has the phrase “Death Before Dishonor” been retired by the Marine Corps since I got out?
(((((((OldFatGuy)))))
I can hear how much you wanted to be there. I’m so sorry you weren’t able to be. Your comments here at the lake are a contribution to what we’re all doing. Keep on keeping on and I hope you’re feeling better soon.
Hey!!! Feel better, guy. It ain’t easy to be 60 in body and 19 in spirit, is it?
I’ve always liked your handle. From the time she was 5, I was the full-time parent for my daughter, who’s now almost 18. One of the days when my wife was off and i was in the den reading I heard my daughter looking for me. “Where’s the fat guy?” she asked my wife. I almost choked laughing.
Take care of yourself. We have to be here to celebrate when this country gets over its 30 year virus.
It is commendable — and wonderful!
I just arrived back in Pittsburgh from Quantico. 630 miles in the saddle of my bike. Sorry you couldn’t make it. Sometimes moral support and appreciation will have to do, and thanks for that.
I have to admit that the riot police made the whole episode surreal. They were actually hiding in the woods. For what it’s worth, it was worth the trip despite my fatigued butt.
Michael, thanks so much for your work! It’s like you’re the fly on the wall, seeing for all of us what some of us would prefer to keep unseen.