Jon, for years I have been giving to firedoglake, while at the same time expressing my lack of comfort about making donations to a private corporation that is wholly owned by Jane. Is that still the case? How is the financial structure changing to accommodate these new goals and this new fundraising model?

I would love to join but do not have a credit card… my debit card doesn’t seem to work for this transaction. Is there a way for folks like me to join? (I apologize in advance if this has already been addressed.)

…expressing my lack of comfort about making donations to a private corporation that is wholly owned by Jane. Is that still the case?

Why would you have a ‘lack of comfort’…? 8-(

We think this will do the trick!

Need help? Contact member services by e-mailing us at members at firedoglake dot com or by calling 202-506-3907
(M-F, 9:30am EST – 6:00pm EST).

Very concise and clear, Jon, thank you very much for this summation of reasons “why.” I’m looking forward to leveraging our membership numbers with more and more progressive organizations that can provide additional benefits going forward. It’s a very exciting time to be at Firedoglake — not that there have ever been unexciting times!

You can email members at firedoglake dot com for assistance I do believe.

I think this will answer your questions: Where the Money Goes

Additionally, here is a Frequently Asked Questions page.

thanks to kelly and the lurking mod for the suggestion! I will give it a try :)

I had to chuckle when eCAHN was remarking about not finding FDL earlier, and, I reflected back on my experiences… I think I first ‘found’ Jane and Christy’s efforts by following a link from Marcy, at the Next Hurrah, back when Meteor Blades, Kagro X, et al. were running the show…! ;-)

You’re nicer than I am. I call bullshit/concern troll as “uncomfortable” doesn’t jibe with “give.”

It’s just to sow doubt, and totally uncalled for.

*heh* Even my better half calls me ‘too nice of a guy’…! A badge I wear proudly, I might add…! ;-)

SaltinWound is a long-time commenter, and undeserving of your characterization. I’m uncomfortable with the growing trend of labeling anyone who utters a thought not to someone’s particular liking a “troll”, which seems to be happening more and more in the threads.

Careful, guys. I think sometimes we throw “troll” around a bit too freely. SaltinWound has been around for awhile. Why is being uncomfortable with some aspect of the organization uncalled for?

EDIT: SaltinWound, IMHO you deserve a respectful response to your concerns.

I think I owe ya a beverage, rosalind. What’cha drinking. (My sentiments exactly.)

Now THAT’S an answer.
Well done, Teddy.

Fair enough. But throwing doubt stones into a fund raising thread seems rude and disingenuous and counter productive in my opinion at best.

When one is being asked to invest $45, $120, or $1,000 in an internet operation, I think it is an opportune place to question, and get answers. If FDL is going to be a business with, in effect, shareholders, then those shareholders have a right to have concerns addressed.

Thanks, Teddy. And if someone can suggest a proper route for further questions, that would also be helpful…

You’re right, there has been…! 8-(

That’s why I’d asked what the uncomfort was…! I know I don’t agree with everybody, all of the time, or even anybody, some of the time…! But, everybody has a right to be heard…! *g*

Btw, that’s probably why I was never asked to ‘mod’…! ;-)

Thank you for your response, Teddy. I have donated thousands of dollars to firedoglake over the years, while at the same time asking for financial transparency. Jane has engaged me on threads about it constructively and i have emailed emptywheel my thoughts. To anyone for whom that constitutes being a bad member of the community, I have a problem with you, but not with firedoglake.

I think a couple of people owe SaltinWound an apology for shooting from the hip on this one…

Wow, a mind reader who knows what this poster’s intentions are, and of course, they’re dark and unsavory. But, making accusations and calling people names is not uncalled for. Got it.

Much mahalo for your support, SaltinWound…! I do have some granular Hawaiian Sea Salt available…! ;-)

…a truly independent news source, free from the finical influence of institutional or commercial interests…

Therein lies the key.

Bruises aside, what remains is the site’s indisputable mission, as stated above.

Hey mm! (Full disclosure: msmolly was/is my first MyFDL friend!)

I’m happy, glad, thankful, and delighted that FDL is “a private corporation that is wholly owned by Jane”. I’ll let you know when I begin to doubt her trust and loyalty. (I don’t agree with her all that much, but it doesn’t matter what I think.)

Kelly has on a few occasions shown me his ire,may i say it is unpleasant

*waves to AitchD*

And if you wanna see what a REAL troll looks like, wander over to Steve Benen’s place today. There has been an infestation, someone hiding behind an IP anonymizer and using a variety of handles, almost literally sh–ting all over the place (a really nauseating picture behind a link). And editing one commenter’s handle to make it obscene.

I assume our mods have to deal with that sort of thing also…a miracle we manage to keep them out.

Just to be clear, I am not questioning Jane in terms of her integrity or how the money is being used. The grey area for me is that she is deficit financing a cause but also, in my mind, building an asset. I agree it is a side issue, one I usually raise when I am considering giving. If there is a more appropriate thread, I am open to suggestions.

Is a “finical” a newfangled lampshade post device we’ll need when we’re no longer able to get incandescent bulbs?

Other than emailing Jane directly with your questions, I can’t think of a better place to ask them. Assuming, of course, that someone is online to respond now or will be available later and reading the thread.

Is there a concern about building an asset for herself? I think she has been financing the bulk of the expenses at FDL for a long time, so it would have to turn into a helluva asset to even make up for her investment. And we all get a lot out of this site, so my $120 + a sponsored membership is money well spent, I think.

And now, I’m gonna go watch a Netflix movie and have some wine.

Magic 8-ball says:
Oops.

It’s a variant of the word “finicky” I think. *G*

Kelly has on a few occasions shown me his ire,may i say it is unpleasant.

That said, he’s damn lucky Groucho isn’t around any longer.

With all due respect, it is not surprising that raising the issue as the first comment on a post designed to increase membership invited a push back, no?

At first, I interpreted it negatively. After further explanation, I now understand your intent — but I do think that everyone was operating in good faith.

That was the Lurking Mod’s fault, and is repaired. Thanks.
/~~~

I agree with all that and do not mean to imply that Jane is doing this in order to build an asset or ever sell. Also, I admire her courage and the genius of emptywheel. It would be awful if this place were not here.

Enjoy 2X!

There have been many active fundraising threads lately where I did not raise it. I chose this one because it was not on the main page. There was no one here for hours when I commented. That was fine with me.

I understand.

I think it shows a lot of consideration to avoid bringing this up on the main page, but on the other hand, maybe others have similar questions and are looking for an opportunity to raise them.

But it’s still a cool word. So: Thank YOU!

who is Groucho?

My daughter just IM’d me, so probably gonna be online for a bit. Haven’t talked to her much for a couple of weeks.

Groucho Marx. R U srus? Julius was his given name. One of the Marx Brothers (Groucho, Chico, Harpo, Gummo, Zeppo). Fourished in the 1930′s. Groucho hosted You Bet Your Life in the 1950′s on TV. Johnny Carson later hosted a daytime show called Do You Trust Your Wife? which gave him audition rights to try out for The Tonight Show. Who’s Johnny Carson? someone’s gonna ask…

There are plenty of avenues for inquiring about fundage that don’t involve dropping into the thread, as the first comment, and sowing doubt. I don’t think those question are appropriate or necessary in a fundraising thread, if someone is a robust supporter who wants to see others donate.

I’d much rather see those conversations happen between donors and their Membership Coordinators or, in the case of thousands-of-dollars donors, with Jane. It stops the fundraising absolutely in its tracks to have a comment like that atop the thread.

Just my two cents for the future.

In 1989, I had professional responsibilities that put me in nightly contact with women in the 16-19 year old range.

One evening, the name Paul McCartney appeared in a conversation, and one of the girls said, “Oh, the guy from Wings.”

Besides, I’m sure that when Jane sells this place to Rupert Murdoch for a half-billion Federal Reserve Notes the Founding Members will all get discounts on subscriptions to the Wall Street Journal, or something.

A ‘teachable’ moment, indeed…! ;-)

professional responsibilities that put me in nightly contact with women in the 16-19 year old range

so … uh … you were a pimp?

Yes, and look at me now – on the board of Goldman Sachs.

No need for name-calling.

So IIRC, yesterday we were at 335, now at 390, correct? 15% increase overnight? Nice.

Rupert even, eh…? Bwhahaha…! ;-)

I disagree that this should be private. I do not like that there is not a thread where issues like this can be discussed openly. I will go away now. If Jane is interested, she knows how to contact me.

oh that Groucho,lately there are so many!

yeah, I think long-term supporters should know their concerns are valid and attended to, especially if they’ve had ongoing conversations with the founder of the enterprise about the issue they raise. It seems very counterproductive to the point of the post — which wasn’t an issues or current-events post, but a standalone fundraising post — to drop in at Comment One with that question.

Thousands of dollars in contributions over many years buys you lots of access to the boss-lady, I bet. One would think someone with that level of financial investment in the success of the enterprise would want to see the membership drive succeed. I fail to see how that comment contributed to the success of this thread.

Again, just my two cents. People are welcome to prove me wrong by making this an overwhelmingly successful fundage thread!

but that could be said nicely,we dont have to do Tora,Tora,Tora…..eeesh everybody is in a lousy mood tonite,im gonna go eat chips and dip…niters

I don’t think there’s any need to go away.

I am trying to engage constructively by sharing my concerns about the comment, in a general sense. You aren’t being attacked, not by me. But I simply don’t see the utility of the comment you made.

remember one of the early Wings LP’s, with a fold-out poster-size insert with ‘Polaroids’ on it? I had it on my wall and added a Polaroid of myself to the poster. My lifelong, childhood best friend & neighbor was visiting from Chicago (we had ‘grown apart’ over the years of adulthood and early careers). He said, “Oh, you know one of The Beatles?”

hahahaha!

I don’t think you should go away.
That said, this,

…my lack of comfort about making donations to a private corporation that is wholly owned by Jane. Is that still the case?

at first glance, strikes me (and I am not alone) as reminiscent of many of the unfounded and malicious criticisms leveled by some very unsavory wingers.

It should come as no surprise that someone’s initial reaction is to bring out the sword.

Stick around.

One evening, the name Paul McCartney appeared in a conversation, and one of the girls said, “Oh, the guy from Wings.”

I have several younger staff working for me. The other day at lunch I mentioned Lou Reed. They thought he was a baseball player.

Scarecrow is upstairs!
Japan Nuclear Watch: Struggling to Prevent and Limit Meltdowns

I’m sure you didn’t follow up with the Velvet Underground explanation, eh…? ;-)

I said, “Yeah second base for the Cubs.”

OK, Teddy, point taken, but calling someone a “troll” for asking a legitimate question is out of line.

EDIT: and there has been entirely too much flinging of the “troll” accusation lately, including by the boss lady. It’s her blog, but sometimes she’s a bit quick off the mark with that stuff. Probably has some good reasons, but it paints with a broad brush.

And I don’t agree that raising a concern on a fund raising thread is inappropriate. You see from the comments that SaltinWound was careful about phrasing and about the intent to not post on a front page post (although it wound up there). I personally think this is no way to treat a potential founding member. So maybe we agree to disagree on this one, with hopefully mutual respect.

It think it’s more the timing and the place than the question itself.

Stuff gets posted and then promoted to front page and we don’t always have a good sense of the timing of posts, especially those folks who have “a life” and don’t hang out here all day and have a sense of the rhythm of the blog. SaltinWound said it had been quite awhile with no comments before s/he posted that comment.

And the “place” is an appropriate one – asking for funds to support FDL. We sure wouldn’t want the questions asked on a thread about Wisconsin or Japan or Book Salon. Where else is there for someone to bring up a concern about the funding?

I’m gonna sign off now, too. We’re beating a dead horse and nobody’s mind is likely to be changed. I like Kelly a lot, but he seems to have hit and run and that’s unfortunate.

I retreated so that it wasn’t about me, as much as the fundraising.

That’s what the goal is here. I expressed my opinion, and I stand by it.

I want to say that I am, if I can use this phrase non-ironically, looking forward and not backward. Regardless of how long this post languished without comments and without being moved to the front page, a long-time and very generous financial supporter thought it wise to make the first comment with some questions about the financing and underwriting of the blog and its fiscal health and structure.

I think we can all learn from this that, despite our good intentions, there are other places and other times to deposit these questions than as the first comment in a fundraising post that is, during a fund drive, a candidate to be moved to the front page of the blog.

Can we all at least agree to think twice about the effect of our comments, as well-intentioned long-time financial supporters of Firedoglake?

Please reconsider the “troll” label. That’s mostly what I reacted to. I don’t find it objectionable to raise a funding issue on a funding thread. I don’t share the concern, and you don’t, but if it is raised and addressed it should set others’ minds at ease who may have been thinking but didn’t want to ask.

Shutting down inquiries is not helpful to the cause.

And now I really AM signing off for tonight.

If this is the last post in the thread, let SaltinWound have the last word:

“I admire [Jane Hamsher's] courage and the genius of emptywheel. It would be awful if this place [Firedoglake] were not here.”

Where, Teddy? Where is the “appropriate” place other than on a thread about funding? I’m a longtime Firepup (although not as longtime as many) and I’m not sure I would know where to go with a concern about funding, if I had one. Maybe we should consider putting up a link to a place for these questions at the beginning of each fundraising post. That way people would have an obvious place to ask, other than on the thread itself.

Good night, all.

That is very good.

I wrote “call bullshit/concern troll.” There’s a bit of a difference from regular troll IMO.

And I conceded “fair enough” about the “name” thing.

My overall point on “casting aspersions on fund raising threads” still stands, and I’ll do it again on those who cast aspersions and sow doubt on fund raising threads.

You and Teddy and others who take issue about this stuff aren’t too far away from someone who asks for self-censoring in the comments (at the least). The bloggers and diarists can self-censor. The commenters are more free. It’s a win-win no matter what anyone says: SaltinWound’s comment being posted intact is beautiful proof that Firedoglake doesn’t moderate or censor its comments (with well-known exceptions no one disapproves of), and guys like you (or me) get to tell people to behave themselves.

…aren’t too far away from someone who asks for self-censoring in the comments (at the least).

Nope. Say anything, but to expect to be free of challenge is unreasonable.

People piled all over me. Not unexpected. And I haven’t melted.

Replying to a poster’s comments and saying they’re “uncalled for” is hold-harmlessspeak for suggesting the poster should have self-censored. No?

No. It’s an opinion contra the original statement/opinion. That’s all.

If that’s perceived as a “shut down” that’s in the mind of that “perceiver.” Continuing to speak appears to be the cure IMO.

If that’s perceived as a “shut down” that’s in the mind of that “perceiver.”

That’s awfully dismissive, Kelly. If that “perceiver” is a potential new member who feels shut down and rejected and goes away without joining, is that really OK with you? You saw the reaction from several of us. You still think it’s OK? Think about it a bit.

If I had visited a charity’s website and asked a similar question when I was considering a donation, similar to what SaltinWound asked at the beginning of this thread, and had been called a troll (regardless of qualifier, it implies bad intent), and/or a member of the organization had “called bullshit” on me, I would have left immediately and not donated and not returned. In the mind of the perceiver? Yeah, and do you want that left in the mind of a potential donor?

You are concerned about the effect of SaltinWound’s question on the fundraising thread? What about the effect of your hostile reaction on potential donors who are looking in but not saying anything? If a legitimate question is slammed, what are they to take away?

A little self evaluation is in order. How was your comment received, and is that how you wanted it to be received?