The U.S. has a policy of trying to keep middle eastern dictators in place. This hasn’t changed just because the Egyptians were successful in ousting Mubarak. Or because Obama has taken to quoting Martin Luther King.

Bush should get credit. If he didn’t destroy the global economy they would have never stood up against their dictators.

Can’t wait to hear a Republican use that argument.

Using obama’s favorite word when speaking of others “responsible” . We are responsible in that we so helped the regime repress the people, they rose up. Plus all the help we gave to the transnational corporations to steal the country blind. I loved it when the people learned that Mubarak had 70 Billion American dollars, they said “what to heck, the whole country of Egypt is not worth that much?”

Yes, how did we miss seeing those thousands of signs in the crowd at Tahrir Square that said, “All thanks to you, George W. Bush.” Oh, because they were written in Egyptian. Yeah, that’s it.

Obama’s team seemed to waffle in reaction to daily events during the uprising, settling on Slow Ouster & a spy boss that could only alienate the movement, and likely leave Obama on the wrong side of history. The acceptance of Suleiman was never a possibilit­y for protesters­, making Obama for them, yet another line-toein­g U.S. president who doesn’t get it.

As eloquent as he was yesterday, it very much appears the Obama team got lucky by Friday’s events – obviating the fact they’d put their chips on Suleiman. The high talk about civil & human rights, will at some point need to be matched by a White House willing to break ranks with dictators whom may serve some strategic end, but whom simultaneo­usly run roughshod over those values at home. That in my view must be the change which Washington undergoes, if it is ever to garner real credibilit­y in the region.

You’d think Obama, would be the one president to know that…

– Balkingpoi­nts / www

Check out Doonesburry today, it’s a kick,

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip

The idea that former President Bush, President Obama or any America president were somehow were responsible for undermining a dictator supported by billions of U.S. dollars is beyond absurd.

Exactly.

The next test case is what happens in Yemen, and the next in Jordan, and the big kahuna is when the democracy movement sweeps Saudi Arabia. I suspect in each case, the US policy will be to wait until events are clarified before committing to one side or the other. It’s not a great idea to stiff a dictator who winds up surviving; he can find other patrons. Especially given that the US is in fiscal trouble and the Saudis and Chinese are not.

Too true. It’s what the US public needs to realize but doubt they will.

There should be little doubt as to which side the US gubmint will support in any case. It will do just as it did in Egypt. Just as it did in Tiananmen Square. Just as it did in Chile. Just as it did in Nicaragua. Just as it did in Haiti. Just as it did in El Salvador. Just as it did in the Philippines. Just as it did in Honduras. Just as it did in Venezuela, Coumbia and Brazil and Canada.

Always on the side of the boot on the throat.

How quickly you lost faith in the change you can believe in. The fierce audacity of now. Hope.

oh, what the hell. I’m just chillin’ until DKos reboots anyway…. :~)

And is Hillary having fun yet! G)

I posted late to the game in an older thread, but this really has me fascinated…so,
—
I think this is the most interesting–with the most potential impact–aspect of the Egypt revolution:

While the revolution was across all segments of society, it was powered by young adults using social media, sparking the suppressed idealism in the rest of society. So, cool, right?

It’s beyond cool; it’s a completely new paradigm.

This is about global thinking, viewing local events and situations from a perspective that goes far beyond local knowledge, traditions, and understanding.

It is the knowledge of global perspectives, of traditions in all other countries, and of rights and freedoms in places like our troubled country, that allowed the PEOPLE to imagine/dream/invent a new reality, one where they live free and have basic rights.

It’s about using the felt-power of a multitude of fellow revolutionaries to gain the courage to stand down tanks and guns.

This is not a one-time thing. This is potentially earth-changing. It is, I think, a global revolution in the making.

And therefore, if anyone even begins to “get it”, it’s absolutely terrifying. If the existing powers in the U.S. could have snuffed the Egypt revolution out in the early days, they would have. I feel that the fact that our government did not do this is one of the most amazing aspects of this whole dance.

Watching the last two weeks I was thinking of our excitement and sense of power during the 2008 election–and thinking, well, OK, maybe we now move on to something more substantial.

Time will tell, eh?

Don’t worry. If the US gov’t and the CIA somehow misread or didn’t see this coming (which I seriously doubt), they will make damn sure whoever the next military offering is their man and Egyptians will eat it up. Why? Because they think the military and Egypt are one. They don’t want democracy. They want the military to control the nation. So again I ask, what change? They’ll get the change the US got when Mr. Advertisement President was elected. Very little. To get jobs and get out of the poverty, you have to attract business. Who you going to attract? Corporate crap, just like everywhere else. How’s that working out in China where all the corporations have moved? They’ve got jobs and economic prosperity now, but still no damn rights.

The US Gov’t got caught with it’s pants down and only belatedly and grudgingly came to the conclusion Mubarack was toast and then they hurriedly played catch up. I don’t think anybody believes we had anything to do with this one way or another. If they do they’re clueless. I was surprised at Cenk U the other night implying Obama had pushed Mubarack over the edge. It was as if even Cenk just couldn’t accept that the Egyptian people did this and that Obama mattered little in the final result. They sure got to Cenk fast at MSNBC. I guess he got the Corp. memo to study real close what happened to Keith and Ed.

The people of the revolution have serves humanity. It is about human rights. And yes about extreme creative social tools for change that can be implemented over and over. 2/11/11 is an historical date.

There’s a story being floated in the media that unnamed U.S. government officials threatened to cut off the Egyptian military’s allowance if they fired on unarmed civilians. If that message was ever conveyed, it’s hard to believe it could have happened before the generals already declared on their own initiative that they wouldn’t shoot demonstrators.

Unlike all of those examples when the US was a rising imperial power or sat astride a Pax Americana, “US support” is pretty much a matter of words. And those words are less credible because they are less likely to be backed up with actual resources. Israel might start worrying about being the last protectorate standing. That is the current trend.

But al Quaeda is also now irrelevant in the region; what they could not do with 30 years of violent revolution and asymmetric warfare attacks, mostly unarmed people accomplished in 18 days.

American power, since George W. Bush exposed it as a sham, is less determinative of events in the world. The main worry now is what happens when the Middle East takes away the whole basis of the “global war on terror”. And the raison d’etre post-1989 of the continued existence of the US military-industrial-media complex. That could become a very dangerous time domestically.

I am at pains to think of a major world event that the CIA did not misread. From the Cold War to the Bay of Pigs to Vietnam…to al Quaeda and the fall of ben Ali and Mubarak. It’s been a multibillion dollar waste of money for the past 64 years. And always insulated from accountability because of the “derring-do” spy mystique. The ones who aren’t pencil pushers reading public available documents about the economies of Minsk, Pinsk, and Chelyabinsk (a Cold War reference) are thugs conducting extraordinary rendition. But they are damn good at bureaucratic infighting. They just sandbagged their own boss Leon Panetta by letting him make a fool of himself in front of Congress about Mubarak’s speech.

The Mexican drug war is waiting in the wings

The US gave Mubarak so much fucking money, he was too busy moving his billions out of the country to tiny islands in the Caribbean to spend any time calming down protesters.

If anything American policies have completely stifled democracy and reform in Egypt by the $28 billion we donated to propping up a corrupt dictorial regime for 30 years. Birds of a feather. Our government has done the same thing here by lying to the American people, and implementing misguided policies transfering more and more wealth to the top 1%.

The US has that Midas touch, no doubt about it.

It’s no wonder that the military is Egypt’s most powerful institution. What other institution received a $2.3 billion infusion of U.S. taxpayer cash every year? What a huge distortion U.S. policy makers have created!

The U.S. gives lip service to democracy, but has for 30 years put its money in “security”. This only stifled the natural evolution, but could not ultimately contain it: Another huge investment in a losing strategy.

At least the U.S. now owns the military who happens (surprise!) to rule the country until it choses the next leader. The U.S. will appear to be neutral while ruling the country via its own military until another puppet can be put in place.

Greetings, elderly U.S. policy makers: The paradigm has changed! There now exists an inability to control communication and keep secrets – the two cornerstones of power – and the U.S. must re-think it’s failed strategy.

Collectively as a country we can claim no credit for this positive popular revolution against a dictator we spent so much money trying to keep in power.

Agreed, no motivation and no real support from the US for people-powered democracy in Egypt or anywhere else in the world. However, it is possible that the US put behind the scenes pressure on the Egyptian military to keep their powder dry.

Also note, going from an authoritarian Dictator supported by the military to Military Rule is not exactly the birth of democracy. The yee-haws strike me as a bit premature.

When are we going to catch up with where the rest of world is going. We need to conduct the same kind of campaign against the corrupt, cowardly, greedy, elitist, mendacious, feckless, ass wipes that run this country. Had I the expertise and know how I would be glad to organize it.

your point?

the ordinary people and workers in egypt have already achieved something that was unthinkable even a month ago and they haven’t given up yet

no, we don’t know the final outcome but the final denoument of the french revolution is still ongoing to quote chou en lai

the US govt and the cia has very little leverage to manipulate the aspirations of the egyptian people who keep on demonstrating far greater resilience than the US electorate ever did throughout the reagan, clinton and bush regimes or in 2008 let alone since

the difference? in egypt the people are very clear as to what their aspirations are and are savvy enough to know the minimum systemic requirements to get what they want whereas in the the US, there is anger and alienation for sure but an inchoate noise re aspirations let alone the minimum necessary to get there – it gets very confused because of the national meme that its already god’s gift on earth