Tweet
At roughly 1:00 pm, upon driving onto the base at Quantico, David House and blogger Jane Hamsher were detained by military guards. House, who is on the Quantico Brig’s visitation list, has been visiting Bradley Manning in confinement since last September.
In December 2010, House came forward with testimony that he witnessed a deterioration in Manning’s physical and mental state due to the conditions of Manning’s solitary confinement. House traveled to the Quantico brig to check up on Bradley’s well-being after a week in which Manning’s lawyer filed an Article 138 complaint over Manning’s mistreatment at Quantico. House and Hamsher also planned to deliver a 42,000-signature strong petition calling for an end to the inhumane conditions that Manning is being held. Upon arriving at the main entrance at Quantico, House and Hamsher were stopped and detained by military police who provided no explanation for detainment aside from a statement from one MP that his orders to detain had “come from the top.”
Between 1:00 – 1:30 MPs took their IDs and made them sign a form that they could not deviate to the brig or else they would be considered trespassing. At this time, one of the MPs asked for Hamsher’s auto insurance card. MP Gunnery Sgt. Foster informed Hamsher that her car would be towed after declining to accept a digital copy of Hamsher’s insurance card. House and Hamsher offered to drive off the base but were denied, despite being detained only ten feet inside the base’s perimeter. The MPs then took the Social Security numbers, phone numbers and addresses of House and Hamsher.
Around 1:40 the tow truck arrived and MPs instructed House and Hamsher to leave their vehicle, informing them that their vehicle would be searched. At 2:00 pm House observed military officers arriving and entering the MP outpost which oversaw their detainment. House expressed concern that he would miss Manning’s visiting hours but was told that he could neither exit nor move forward to the base. No explanation for House and Hamsher’s detainment was provided until 2:50 when they were informed they could leave the base. They were detained for two hours up until Manning’s visitation time period expired at 3:00 pm.
In past visits, Hamsher and House have had no problem driving onto the base to visit Manning. This is the first time House has been denied access to Manning. House and Hamsher’s detainment comes on the heels of Amnesty International calling for an investigation into the conditions of Manning’s confinement. The UN Special Rapporteur on Torture has also announced that the UN will be starting an investigation and Manning’s attorney has filed an article 138 complaint citing inhumane and overly harsh conditions on part of the Brig. Now House, Manning’s primary visitor outside of his attorney, who has provided public testimony about Manning’s deteriorating conditions as a result to his solitary confinement, has effectively been denied access to Manning.
223 Comments
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
This is a blatant violation of the Constitution that these men swore to defend. Good on Jane for not shutting up and taking it.
I wonder what they didn’t want Mr. House to see.
Towing the car was a deliberate signal of malice in this situation.
The order to detain came from the top.
I can’t wait to hear ex-president Obama explain this case when he goes back to teach law at Chicago in the spring of 2013.
They’re taunting all of you. What’s next, “legally” speaking, of course?
It is, however, allowable under the post-9/11 constitution, under which national security trumps checks and balances, separation of powers, and the Bill of Rights.
Are we a nation of laws, or a military dictatorship? Wasn’t this stuff supposed to stop once Bush left the White House?
Therein lies the real problem, and the root of our fascist government.
What are they doing to Bradley Manning that they don’t want anyone to see?
XXXXOOOOO to all those USMC lurkers.
Remember folks, Bush III has sole ownership on this one.
Yeah, but just like Jon Yoo, he’ll a) have a cushy, well-paid sinecure, and b) have de facto immunity from prosecution for complicity in torture, and for prosecuting wars of choice and genocide.
He’s actually going to come out of it rather well.
No it wasn’t. It was stupid and may or may not have been according to the rules, but it wasn’t unconstitutional.
“USA: Open letter to Robert Gates, Secretary of Defense,” (Amnesty International, Jan. 19, 2011)
heh. Not sure I’m sending X’s and O’s. Unless I can add that I am old, fat, wrinkly, and I have a hair growing out of my chin.
So much for the right of free assembly
Wow -how much you want to bet that Jane will now be a witness in the UN Rapporteur’s report?
I’m thinking odds are good….
Amendment the 4th – reasonable search. What were grounds?
Particularly when the base was notified in advance.
Thank you Jane and David, for spending so much of your weekend time recently going down to Quantico for us.
Just wanted to make sure that was said. :)
I wonder if Jane is getting a free installation of one of these:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/all/1
No visitors is this guy a terrorist nope sorry he’s military if a prisoner is cooperating then there is no need for solitary.
Or the right to petition the govt.
The rule of law is an illusion that the government trots out when they seek to highlight the “freedoms” that the “enemies” (whomever they conveniently deem to fit that role at the time) of the U.S. hate. The Rule of Law is no longer, we have the Law of the Rulers.
Did Bush include Military personal in the whole Terror law thing because unlike regular American Citizens the Military is governed by different laws. Treatment of Military Prisoners even Traitors Cough *Scooter Libby* get the Geneva Convention treatment.
Unless the Military wants to say Brad was slipping classified material to Jane Brad is treated according to military law and I think the Geneva Conventions apply.
Who takes the fall for this WH disaster the Pentagon or the Justice Dept?
why are you surprised at this??? this is amerikka as we live in it today….
Book Salon up with Tracy Baim’s Obama and the Gays: A Political Marriage hosted by Teddy Partridge
Glenn and the Right Wing Hate Machine is going to hate this they thought they were Obama’s biggest enemy.
Ha! Actions speak louder than words we are. Glen’s Flying Monkeys can shoot Lefties all they want Obama don’t care about us.
Nope Obama wants KO gone he’s gone. Obama wants Jane detained Jane is detained. The Buck stops with you Obama.
Give us a break its one thing to hear the girlfriend s cheating its another when you catch her cheating.
So the government goons must enjoy the fantastic Posts at FDL.
These Fascist tactics against American citizens is payback. It is revenge for the Posts which truthfully describe the Fascism of the US government. It is payback for being free enough to demand our Constitutional rights. It is a threat against any others who dare challenge the Military and Espionage Fascist thugs.
But I do not blame the coward Barack Obama. He is a mere puppet who will be sacrificed soon enough by the globalists of the US neo-con empire.
Does anyone know if it would be counterproductive to go for a visit? Quantico is a bit of a hike for me – about 6 hours – but I am willing to go. I don’t want to do this if it cuts against other efforts, and it would be best if many of us do so.
I don’t think Obama ordered Jane detained. I think Obama condones what is going on with Brad, but he let’s the military handle it in their own unique way, which includes taunting Jane, David and all the rest of you.
Does anyone that reads this blog really want to vote for obama now? And how are the scary repugs going to be worse? I suspect that once they get in power much of the hateful rhetoric will be toned down by the elite, and, if not, it wouldn’t help if they were out of power. I think many of the repugs actually want a real shooting revolt against the gubmint and the libruls. obama has done nothing to show that he would not put up with that kind of action because he keeps folding.
Hail Fuehrer Obama! He’s trained his SS minions to be as hard as Krupp steel!
i had experience with military back in 1964 when my husband was drafted and refused to join – we had visits from authorities and i was young and prgenany and my hubby hauled away – please dont get me started.. its been downhill re liberties for awhile
what an utterly bone-chilling account of the gratuitous thuggery which is the new norm of our world
my absolute loathing of Obama is infinite and indescribable
thank you Jane yet again
anybody else starting to feel like a Gazan here in America?
pregnany it should read
The idea that the White House isn’t intimately concerned with coverage of WikiLeaks, Assange, Manning and the conditions of Manning’s prolonged, pre-trial detention, and that it just leaves the latter to the whims of the military, could only come from someone who hasn’t been paying attention since 9/11.
Nah eCHAN this is what they really want:
_____Sexy?Sex
____?Sexy?Sexy
___y?Sexy?Sexy?
___?Sexy?Sexy?S
___?Sexy?Sexy?S
__?Sexy?Sexy?Se
_?Sexy?Sexy?Se
_?Sexy?Sexy?Se
_?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?
?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy
?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Se
?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sex
_?Sexy?__?Sexy?Sexy?Sex
___?Sex____?Sexy?Sexy?
___?Sex_____?Sexy?Sexy
___?Sex_____?Sexy?Sexy
____?Sex____?Sexy?Sexy
_____?Se____?Sexy?Sex
______?Se__?Sexy?Sexy
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sex
________?Sexy?Sexy?sex
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Se
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?S
________?Sexy?Sexy____?Sexy?Sexy?se
_________?Sexy?Se_______?Sexy?Sexy?
_________?Sexy?Se_____?Sexy?Sexy?
_________?Sexy?S____?Sexy?Sexy
_________?Sexy?S_?Sexy?Sexy
________?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy
________?Sexy?Sexy?S
________?Sexy?Sexy
_______?Sexy?Se
_______?Sexy?
______?Sexy?
______?Sexy?
______?Sexy?
______?Sexy
______?Sexy
_______?Sex
_______?Sex
_______?Sex
______?Sexy
______?Sexy
_______Sexy
_______ Sexy?
________SexY
Ya think??
DITTO!! Adam
Are you really from Morocco? (Just kidding.)
I agree that O let’s the military do his dirty work. But I do think when things like this happen, he jerks off while watching the video.
Welcome to Authoritarian America, where the Rule of Law does not apply, where there is one standard for the powerful and wealthy and another for the rest of us, and where power justifies its own behavior. This increasingly authoritarian culture goes hand-in-hand with the growing wealth (and power) gap, and the takeover of the U.S. mainstream media by the forces of international corporate power.
Well, I did my best. All I can offer is Xs & Os, as I would like to offer a friendly welcome our USMC guests. Sexy, not in my kit bag anymore. *g*
Well said, Sharkbabe. Sort of glad my folks are no longer alive to witness this.
I’m ashamed of President Obama for allowing this travesty to continue. This was just a way to do a mindf*&k on Brown & Hamner. Shame on the military, Shame on whoever ordered this. It shows an immature mind who uses bully tactics in an attempt to show who’s got the power and is in control. Typical. But whoever this individual is “at the top” SHOULD BE DISHONORABLY DISCHARGED.
CALL THE WHITE HOUSE TO PROTEST.
another example of the rampant banana republicanism in this country…
What are they so afraid of? It’s obvious enough that the military are under orders to destroy Manning, as a way of signaling what will happen to anyone else who tries the same thing.
Da the constitution is the RULES period.
This used to be America, NOT NOW.
me neither young ladies would take one look and turn away…Luckily for me I have a very nice sweetie…o☺☺
Don’t you think he has his own personal fluffer like condi ???
I don’t know about anyone else, but I see that obviously Jane and David House were totally out of line in trying to see Bradley Manning and deliver the petition. The guards did the two a favor by not putting them in the brig next to Manning. It is so reassuring to have a constitutional scholar as president who abides so strictly by the Constitution. The break with w’s eight years is so clear cut that it is blinding. Rest easy firepups.
I, OTOH, have a cat who adores me. & all I have to do is feed her 2X/day! Oh, and some scritching when she tells me it’s time.
If you enter a base you consent to a search.
You may not like it, but it’s the current state of the law.
Oh, the most powerful alpha male in the world has every enabler beneath the sun, esp when it comes to sex. So it’s all of the above. Would be interesting to figure out who the fluffers are though. Unlike Big Dawg, O hasn’t been caught unzipped, and that’s quite an accomplishment, considering how hard the wingnuts must be looking. For them, Ken Starr is no longer around when they need him.
“You may not like it, but it’s the current state of the law.”
You may not like it, but it’s the current state of Fascism in America w/ mr. change we can believe in with his hand on his whip.
Is more like it .
ok.
I don’t think the duelies have a problem w/ him so far.
OT heal soon for me (;<
This story is currently the number two item at memeorandum.
Don’t take this as legal advice…
I’ve never been to Quantico so I don’t know first hand what kinds of warnings are posted, but looking online (search for Quantico Entrance Sign in Google -> Images), it seems they should’ve passed signs such as this on their way in:
http://www.ragtag.org/images/chop0508al.jpg
Katz v. United States sets a legal threshold test that an unreasonable search can only occur when 1) a person expects privacy in the thing searched and 2) society believes that expectation is reasonable.
(Assuming some equivalent signage was posted) Does a person have a reasonable expectation of privacy that their person or vehicle will not be subject to search by military police after driving past a sign like this and entering the military base? I think that would be a tough case to win.
Working on it. Actually doing amazingly well, considering. Thanks.
A commenter at Raw Story’s coverage of this is claiming that this man is responsible for Manning’s current “well-being.”
That’s one thing courts have noted in similar cases: “You passed a giant sign saying you can be searched for any or no reason. You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in light of that.”
I go onto the two military bases in the Anchorage area, most often to play bugle at memorial services. I fully recognize that I can be searched and my vehicle searched at any time. I expect to have to produce my drivers license, registration and proof of insurance every time I sign in at the MP post at the gate. Even though a lot of the MPs recognize me, they will sometimes call the people to whom I am to report to verify.
Yep. They were obviously doing it to be assholes but there’s no fourth amendment questions here. Not ones that are actionable anyway…
I have a similar experience when I go on base. I’ve once needed to call my ins. co to fax a copy proof of registration directly to the checkpoint.
When I was in the Navy, I was once randomly pulled over for a search and once randomly had my car inspected and that’s with an active duty ID card. They can pretty much search you anytime on base. It’s screwed up but it’s never been found to be illegal.
They changed the rules for David and Jane. Not at the gate but at the command level on post or higher up. It was harassment, pure and simple. If they actually charged Jane $300.00, we should find a way to raise the $$$.
There will be more demonstrations at the gate. There will be more pressure to have outside people such as the UN or Amnesty International to see and perhaps interview Manning on video.
In the USAF it was a fairly standard procedure to have your car searched at the front gate “randomly” – they were looking for drugs most of the time.
When I was in the Army in early ’67, a friend of mine drove back on base. He had two bags of marijuana he had bought in Tacoma. The MPs searched his car. When they were done, they gave him a peace sign (V) as they drove away. When he checked his car, one of the bags of pot was gone, the other one still there.
We’ve all heard of the Feds’ terrorist “Do Not Fly” list.
Now the Feds have put Jane Hamsher on their new “Do Not Drive” list.
I don’t think the issue is whether Jane should have had her car searched. I think she expected that. What’s at issue is her detention and taking her car from her, forcing her to pay the tow truck in order to get it back.
Well, as of 5:45 pm and 6:02 pm, I found no mention of the Quantico event on the wire services, the Washington Post, The New York Times or the major television networks. A number of goggle searches suggest that the story remains trapped in the Leftwing Ghetto.
I believe the incident today should be considered a domestic military-political attack on a journalist, a private citizen and on the free speech rights of those who signed the petition Jane Hamsher intended to deliver to officials at Quantico. One might expect the MSM to track this abusive behavior, doing so if for no other reason than military officials gratuitously abused a well-known blogger-journalist, especially military officials who probably acted according to orders given to them by civilian authorities. That Hamsher and House went to Quantico to provide direct and indirect support to a torture victim should, one would expect, intensify the outrage and scrutiny over this incident.
But why expect the MSM to care much about this story when writing much about it would compromise the good relations many MSM journalists have with the Pentagon and with the administration in power.
Naval Station San Diego rarely searched cars of active duty personnel but whenever I drove a friend’s Ford Lotus on base they always “searched” it. Just wanted to look it over.
That’s not so uncommon when someone can’t drive (eg, when they don’t have proof of insurance). As noted by others, this seems totally asshole-ish but w/in the rules. Or, as a commenter at Balloon Juice put it, it’s malicious enforcement of the rules.
ET, did you see this…?
Israeli soldiers fired at Gaza aid flotilla in self-defence, says inquiry…
Here’s a particularly obnoxious snippet…
Rather rich that they say the ‘activists’ used disproportionate force, eh…? *gah*
Yes, but having the car towed is clearly retaliation for the legal acts and statements of those involved, which is illegal.
Namaste, CT. Best re-read the last sentence of the quote. *g*
Yeah, I was searched once at Miramar in almost five years but never at 32nd street or Coronado. Miramar were the ones who pulled me over for a safety inspection too.
I saw it last night. I expected nothing different.
Right. Like the Israelis are going to accept responsibility for any of their shit.
No kitty (allergic)but we do have critters around including Tucker and Icarus who demand lots of attention…. ☺
Oh yeah healing thoughts your way eCHAN and stop falling down…
They never have and never will.
That’s quite the pair.
Cutesies!
I’m working on keeping on my feet!
Most all bases have the warning, all persons subject to search while on base…
Then 18 USC 1382: If you enter for unlawful purposes that is a violation and subject to fine.
Of concern here is the detention once entry onto the base was rejected. How is that justified?
I’m positive it was the Tow truck that charged the $300… Just to hook up a car, irregardless if they tow it all of ten yards…! 8-(
A tow truck call to Mauna Kea will cost ya a cool $1K before they even tow…
Oops… But, you get the idea…! ;-)
Tell me about it… We also have a 28 year old cockatiel the old buzzard….
A grand!?! What are the AAA Club fees there, couple K a year?
Oh, that’s so cool. That’s right, I saw a pic of you and the bird once.
*heh* Notice I’d said Mauna Kea… Extraordinary circumstances… But, It’ll still cost ya pretty penny to get a tow job here…! ;-)
He is, Tucker wants to play with him but Tommy hisses at him, although I make sure and keep the peace as Tommy will nip at Tucker if he gets too close…
ahh just how far up the mountain are yer talking CT??
In disdain
one abstains
In giving countenance
to the beasts of the world
their cycle is done
You can tell by the din
and the binding of the words
the message is clear
though it is sheer
we will have our day In the Sun.
evil can mount the scales
in weight of lead
they only stand so much
The spring is broken
under substance so dense
rejected
as all Is One
balance is kept
righted once again
In Light.
Toe job?
They consider anything off of Saddle Road, either the Mauna Loa or Mauna Kea access roads… Basically, anything above 5,000 ft, MK is 14,000+…! ;-)
I might add that all the Auto shops are at Sea level…! ;-)
If dey ain’t nuttin’ wrong with the wheels or brakes that could be a wild ride down. my my
A really interesting, blockbuster news story, in my opinion, would compile data on the number of people currently held in US custody for over 90 days, domestically and internationally, who have not been charged with any crime. I’m referring to terrorist suspects and undocumented aliens and anybody else. Seems like fairly, reliable numbers could be found if anybody had the will to go after the story.
Only one Rental Car company(Harper’s) allows their vehicles to be driven on Saddle Road, all the Nationals(Hertz, Avis, etc.) do not, and, the woeful tourist is directly responsible for the bill…!
What was the explanation???
From a legal standpoint that seems like the biggest thing, while the rest of it seems quite thuggish, but not necessarily unconstitutional. I’d like to understand what the alleged justification is for the detention from between 1:30 (when they offered to leave) to 2:50 (when they were told they could leave).
My immediate thoughts on Jane’s and David’s unlawful detention is if it could rise to kidnapping charges…? I’m sure Jane is filing a formal complaint as soon as possible…! ;-)
The question is not the search, which was probably legal, it is everything else that violates the constitution. Right now failing to oppose Obama would be just as bad as failing to oppose Bush. Anthony Noel at admin@themalcontent.com is forming a New Progressive Alliance to try to answer the question of where we go from here.
Please request a written statement by Quantico officials explaining why they detained her and on what grounds they towed her car. This will shake them up more than any yelling or screaming. It gives you the advantage: (1) either they have no grounds, in which case that is exposed, or (2) there is some quasi-legal basis, and then you’re in a position to show either that the rule is unfair, or that, they used it incorrectly. They aren’t afraid of people complaining and getting upset — that’s what they count on. What they cannot handle is citizens defending themselves with law. Even if they can prove they acted according to written policy, it is important to challenge them on this so that they at least think about what they’re doing.
This happened to me last year and I questioned it then — I have the guard at the post quite a lecture, and only held back because my aged parents were in the car with me. They don’t have the right to check for auto insurance. It has nothing to do with the security of a military base. The answer they gave me was that, “well, if you’re driving illegally (sans insurance), that makes you a potential security risk, and they have a right to know that.” By that logic, they could give you a urine drug test, require a full body search, or Google your life history. All these things are protected rights. If you’re pulled over for a traffic violation, then an officer has a right to request proof of insurance; but this cannot be demanded at whim by any arbitrary government official. This practice should be challenged in court.
The United States’ descent into Fascism not only continues under Zero Obama, it is accelerating.
Hey everyone, thanks for your support. Just a quick update bc I have to download a video David House made about what happened today.
But I just wanted to say that I don’t think any of this had anything to do with me, or frankly the petition signatures. The only thing I did was provide housing and transportation to David House, because he’s just out of college and Glenn Greenwald told him he could stay with me when he comes to visit Manning. Everyone but David has stopped coming to see Bradley, and it takes a lot of courage to do what he’s doing. It’s a very intimidating situation. So I try to support him by putting him up and driving him to the base when he comes to town. That’s really my only involvement.
There is no doubt in my mind that the primary objective of everything that happened today was to keep Bradley from having a visitor. The MPs told us they were ordered to do this, and they made excuses to hold us until 2:50 — repeatedly asking for information they already had.
Visiting hours end at 3pm, and don’t begin again until next weekend. It’s a half hour walk from the front gate to the brig, and although they have allowed David to do it before, they wouldn’t let him do it this time. They said he’d have to catch a cab and come back on the base, but they wouldn’t release him to do that.
This was about detaining David, not me. I would not be surprised to learn they were also punishing David for speaking out about Manning’s conditions. But the net effect was to create a climate of threats and intimidation around David, a 23 year-old who just graduated from school, and cut Manning off from any personal contact with the one person who is still showing up for him.
I am very happy that I went, and could be there to support David, because one of the first things the MPs said to us was that they had orders to do all of this. Which means they were planning this long before we got there. They were going to use any excuse to keep David from visiting Manning, and try to scare him from coming back. Thanks to everyone for their support, it was really heartening to him.
Mahalo Nui Loa, Jane…! *g*
Will David try again next weekend…?
Can we pitch in to help David with his expenses?
I think you’ve got it about right. People often try to constitutionalize everything, which is what we’re seeing here. The officials could be acting against policy, I think it’s clear they’re acting in bone-headed fashion, but there don’t seem to be any constitutional issues in play.
David will absolutely be there next weekend. And I’ll drive him.
We’re talking about a way we can do that tonight. Should know more by tomorrow.
Is there any reason to suspect that Manning has been beaten or killed? Why are they so adamant in preventing access to him THIS time?
SD, check out this new bombshell…!
The Palestine Papers…
I shall be busy for awhile…! ;-)
Awesome, Jane…! *g*
You’ll have a hard copy of your Insurance, right…? ;-)
Please let us know where we can send money to any safe address to the attention of Mr. David M. House (sp?), to cut through all the red tape and middlemen and delays, if it will help.
and the UT president talks about “Human Rights” in China. He just might want to look in his own backyard.
Interrogation is not just the questions asked when the bright lights shine into your face, obscuring the questioner from view. It is a 24/7 experience.
Like boot camp, interrogations begin with disorientation, separating the prisoner from the expected, the routine, the usual that can be relied upon to frame daily life. Visitors give a prisoner relief from monotony, emotional uplift, the assurance that someone outside of their lonely existence knows and cares about them, that there is a world beyond one’s guards and their arbitrary commands.
Keeping Manning from having his expected visitor, or any visitors at all, is part of the 24/7 experience of interrogating him. It’s not the sort of “interrogation” one associates with a country that respects the rule of law, or that such a country should mete out to a detainee awaiting formal charges and a public trial. But it’s what we now do. Should it continue without political consequence for the policymakers on high who are marching us, but not themselves, into the pit?
That’s right:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/22/detainee.documents/index.html?hpt=T2
Upon arriving at the main entrance at Quantico, House and Hamsher were stopped and detained by military police who provided no explanation for detainment aside from a statement from one MP that his orders to detain had “come from the top.
Good..They have no reason to be there..or to interfere in the containment of this traitor..Again, he is a traitor, needs to be tried and convicted of treason …end of story
Outstanding.
Odd how those who claim to defend this country know nothing about its history, its laws, and the political agreements and commitments that form the foundation for both its aspirations and the legal conduct of its government.
Mr. Manning is a soldier accused but not tried or convicted of the crime of revealing possibly criminal conduct of his government. As a soldier, he may not be protected by laws that protect whistleblowers, and he may be subject to punishment for disobeying orders and the severer limits on his personal conduct exacted when under military orders.
Manning is not, however, a traitor, a criminal, a felon or even guilty of a misdemeanor unless and until he has been tried in a regularly constituted court and convicted, on publicly available evidence, subject to cross examination, for crimes that were crimes at the time he committed them. Any other assertion is despotic, wrong and incorrect, however pleasing it might be to the person making it.
“The officials could be acting against policy, I think it’s clear they’re acting in bone-headed fashion, but there don’t seem to be any constitutional issues in play”
Explain how the detention was legal. If I was to go and detain someone who said they’d leave, I’d be open to myself being arrest for false arrest. This doesn’t seem like qualified immunity would hold up here. It doesn’t make sense to me that this could be legit since even you aren’t depriving Jane or David of their rights, by making it impossible for Manning to receive visitors by keeping them detained until visiting hours close, you would be depriving Manning of his rights, which even convicted felons (which Manning is not) have the right to receive visitors.
“To make no decision in regard to the growth of authoritarian government is already a decision for it.”
Francis Schaeffer, Christian philosopher
Well said.
“Good..They have no reason to be there..or to interfere in the containment of this traitor..Again, he is a traitor, needs to be tried and convicted of treason …end of story”
Bradley Mannning isn’t even accused of treason, let alone convicted of treason. Do you feel the government should have the right to lock you up and prevent anyone from seeing you merely because they think – but do not even charge, let alone have a conviction – for treason?
Please return to the rock you were under..
I’ll bet You never served O
ur country… Go away a US citizen is being denied his rights under the Constitution.. And if you can’t see that then you have nothing to stand on no matter what he was charged with… Murders are treated better than Manning is being subject to..
Don’t forget to pull the rock cover over your unpatriotic ass…
ditto, well said Earl… well said.. he is still a citizen of our country… hopefully the Troll Will find its rock…
It is frightening to challenge authority, especially when they are armed and in uniform, so I thank Jane for being there to support David and also as a witness to the intimidation.
His constitutional right is to a trial, which if you read my entire post I clearly called for. Other than that, he has no rights.
He is a traitor, and if Jane Hampster and her FDL cohorts keep this up, may well be seen as a traitor also.
Is there a way to send a PayPal donation to help cover the tow fees?
So we are all traitors based exclusively upon YOUR proclamation?
Get thee to a civics class, “ModNote: Name-calling and similar provocations are prohibited at FDL. Please confine your comments to substance.”
“Visitors give a prisoner relief from monotony, emotional uplift, the assurance that someone outside of their lonely existence knows and cares about them, that there is a world beyond one’s guards and their arbitrary commands.”
Well said. Mr. David House is Private Manning’s only regular visitor, other than Mr. David Coombs, his lawyer. This means that Mr. House is a life-line for Private Manning, in the sense of providing friendly visits that can bring smiles, laughter, joy and emotional comfort for a few hours each week for Private Manning, who is under great psychological stress that has continued unabated for eight months in severe confinement. Mr. House may help enable Private Manning to keep from mentally breaking down, snapping, or somehow cracking under so much intense pressure.
Mr. House has earned my great admiration and appreciation for his continued friendliness in very trying circumstances.
He has been convicted of nothing. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. And not proven guilty by coercion.
Hey, have you contributed money to this blog?
If you haven’t, aren’t you a moocher or a looter by your own definition? You know, using a resource you haven’t paid for? Just asking….
Having served 20 yrs myself, PFC Manning, at least deserves the ‘honor’ to be tried at least…! There’s no excuse whatsoever to the utter BS he’s experienced over the past 8+ Mos…! Where’s the right to a Speedy trial, I swore to uphold…?! 8-(
You, on the other hand, have shown yourself to be a troll, “ModNote: Comments designed to provoke or inflame are prohibited, and are subject to moderation.”
Well, now we’ve seen the brilliant thought process of a troll. Too bad there’s not a graphic of a raspberry s/he could have added at the end.
My name is on that 42K+ signed petition that Jane attempted to deliver…! In the infamous words of Shrub… Bring it on…!
***Mod Note: I trust we can have a conversation about the issues without descending into name calling.***
He also has a right to not experience cruel and unusual punishment. His treatment easily rises to systematic torture. The armed forces not have some privilege to torture.
As to your assertion that Manning is a traitor, not yet he isn’t. There are many questions to be answered before he is charged.
Where is Manning’s family?
His family has abandoned him.
That’s the first I’ve heard that. Isn’t that a sad commentary.
Look again…! No need to leave in a huff…! 8-(
It would be cool if a lot of people started applying for visitation.
Sadly, I cannot recall where I read that but they don’t visit him.
How can I say this clearly –
As an American, you totally suck. You realize that the law applies to you as well as anyone else; you’re assumed innocent UNTIL proven guilty?
Or would you rather be just proclaimed so?
I don’t think so chump ya better read the constitution and the laws that are built upon it way before you start spewing Glen Beck diatribes… By your thinking you ARE a Treasonous SOB also.. How dare you be judge jury and executioner.. You are a lost soul…
Bravo Jane and David! You have my support.
Do you know if they write?
Does this work fer ya??
´´´´´´´´´´´¶¶¶$´´´´´´oø¢1
´´´´´´´´´ø¶o´´´¶7´7¶¶711o¶1
´´´´´´´´¶ø´´´´´o$¶$ø´´1´´o¶
´´´´´´´¶ø¢ø$$$øø¢oo¢øø$¶¶$¶$
´´´´´´¶øø¢ø$ø¢oo¢oøø$ø¢oooo¶
´´´´´ø¢ø¶ø71o¶¶$¶¶$o1oø¶øooø¶
´´´´¶$o´´´´´´´11´´´´´´´´¶ø¢o$¶
´´´øo$¶¶7¶¶´´´´´´´´´´´1´´7ø¢¢¶¶1
ø¶¶$¶¶¶¶¶¶$¢ø¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶o71$$øoø¶¶ø
¶$o¶¶¶¶øo¢øo7$¶øøø¶ø¢¢øøøø¢o$¶¶¶$
´¶$7¶ø7øø´øø¶¢177o¢¶¶´oø¢¢øøø¶ø´
´´øøoø¶1´o$¶o¢øø¢ø¶7´1ø¢¢øø$¶´
´´´$¶¶´´$¶¶ooo¢¢ø¶´´o¶øøø¢$¶
´´¶¶¶´´$$¶o¢¢¢¢ø¶´´¢¶¢øø¢ø¶´
´¶¶¶´´$ø¶oo¢¢¢ø¶7´o¶øø$¢ø¶1
¢¶¶1´$ø¶oo¢¢¢ø¶7´´ø¢¶oø¶o1
¶$¶´´¶ø$oooooø¶´´ø$o¶o¢¶¶
¶ø¢´´¶¢¢¢øøøø¶7´´¶¢ø$¢¶¶
¶ø¶´´$¢¢¢¢øø¶7´´ø$o¶$¶¶
¶¶ø´´ø¢¢¢¢¢ø7´´1¶¶¶¶ø´
´¶¶ø´¢¢¢¢¢øø¢´¢¶¶¢´
´´¶¶¶øø¢¢¢¢ø$¶¶¶
´´´´ø¶¶¶¶¶¶¶¶
Kumari seems to like the Red Queen’s vision of due process, “Sentence first – trial afterwards.” Lewis Carroll, who created the Red Queen – and George Orwell, who critiqued the brutal excesses of other reds – were poking sharp literary jabs at intolerable government excess, not writing a rulebook for government conduct.
By all means, though, we owe it to ourselves to critique the opinion, not the person who holds it, whom we know nothing about. Opinions and arguments, though, stand on their own; the facts, the law, and history support them or they do not. Go at ‘em.
Yer gonna be gettin’ a call from da Rolling Stones.
Big brother is watching us and is the “Decider” for us as we are the little people and they are the cowards. And this is land of the free and the home of the brave so if you don’t like it leave.
That one really hurts the eyes.
PFC Bradley Manning has been charged with two punitive articles of the UCMJ.
Article 92 – Failure to obey order or regulation (4 specifications)
Article 134 – General article (8 specifications)
A required pre-trial hearing (akin to a civil Grand Jury hearing) will be held at some yet-to-be-announced date to assess the evidence and determine whether or not there should be a General Court Martial (akin to a civil trial) of Private Manning.
Private Manning is presumed innocent until proven guilty, pursuant to the UCMJ.
Private Manning has never been charged with treason (a traitor), espionage (a spy) or any other article (a criminal) of the UCMJ. To assert otherwise is either ignorant or irresponsible.
S/he just comes here to stir things up.
Oh Please I lurve the Stones…
sniff sniff sorry…
This is outrageous. There’s definitely a cover-up here, something happend that they didn’t want David and Jane to see. How convienent to detain them just long enough past the visiting hours.
Viva Senora Hamsher.
Best wishes from Arequipa, Peru.
Ha! Thanks, that made me laugh.
Not thinking about that at the moment, but really appreciate the thought.
Thank You.
It is exactly what the Israelis do to the Palestinians on their day of worship.
Thank you so much ghosto. One of the best things about today was seeing how many people from all over the world have been visiting FDL over the Wikileaks story. And that was BEFORE we left for the base this morning.
Truly, all I ever see is the MacDonalds, which is where they told me to go every time I drove David down before. I would not have seen anything anyway.
What about your car?
How’d ya get home? Been worried about you. Didn’t dare call.
My heart and mind are with a super patriot tonight.
Don’t waste your time and attention on those not worthy of such an investment.
We should flood Quantico with letters TO Manning. He probably would never see them but the PTB would. Just a way to aggravate them.
WAPO
I will pray for you when you see him. Tell him God loves him and sees his suffering. Me and my husband have been praying for him alot. We pray for him daily. He is always on our minds. We are conservative Bible believing Christians. I think it is good to remember that thou one can be intimidated, noone can force a person to yield to that intimidation. We must make up our minds to do what we need to do regardless of the consequences. I believe that is what Bradley did.
Tell him a Christian says, “Thank you.”
Thanks for your comment. Off topic, I’m curious what was the outcome of your husband’s draft case, seeing as your pregnancy should have given him an automatic III-A “hardship to dependents” deferment. Though perhaps it was only automatic if, like Dick Cheney, the young father knew to specifically for it.
From March 14, 1963 to April 23, 1970, the III-A classification was broadened to include all men who were fathers. President Kennedy issued Executive Order 11098 on March 14, 1963, to expand entitlement to this paternity deferment. For a man to qualify for a III-A deferment as a “Kennedy father,” there had to be a “bona fide family relationship in their home” between the father and child. The definition of a man’s “child” in the regulations of the period included “a legitimate or illegitimate child from the date of its conception.” Therefore, the III-A classification could be granted during his wife’s (or significant other’s) pregnancy. The III-A classification also remained available to men, married or single, whose induction would be a hardship to their dependents.
Jane, the MPs were just following orders. The question is who in Marine Corps service chain of command you should be putting pressure on for future visits– let’s see…
Service Chain of Command
- President
- Secretary of Defense
- Secretary of the Navy
- Commandant of the Marine Corps
You should be focusing your attention on Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus. Personalize every question, why did the Secretary have you detained? Why did he stall you till visiting hours were over? If these actions were not per his orders, what steps will he take to prevent this misunderstanding from occurring again in the future?
For starters, in the morning fax over to the Secretary’s office all the information the MPs requested. Offer to call in before next week’s business if the Secretary wishes to provide an escort officer to avoid any more misunderstandings. Though of course a written pass from the Secretary of the Navy would sure make a great impression on Marine MPs.
But but Obama’s the most liberal president since LBJ!
Jane,
Happy to hear that you and Mr. House are safely away from that situation although I get the sense that there is more to it than just wanting to intimidate Mr. House. Maybe they are concealing something about Manning’s condition but at least, I am sure, they are hoping this failed visit will be taken by Manning as a final abandonment. They need him to abandon hope.
What is it that drive President Obama’s extraordinary attacks on whistleblowers if not the need to conceal some heavy bad news. My own thinking is its going to work against him and his harsh approach will trigger more insiders to come forward.
Proves Obama is as bad as Bush. Anything to take away the rights of American’s, even those visiting. Obama and the US Military should be ashamed of themselves.
They should also be ashamed they haven’t closed that snake-pit of a torture center like Obama said he would.
PATRIOT ACT!
Sounds to me like an illegal arrest. If you are detained, and are not free to go, you are under arrest. That seems to me an illegal one as no probable cause existed. They also confiscated private property. Obama treading on US citizens rights.
Weren’t they suppose to close that snake-pit of a torture camp when Obama was elected?
Rachel Maddow won’t cover this.
She’s shown nothing but disdain for WikiLeaks and has never condemned the treatment of that organization or of Manning.
Just when did Maddow drink the Obama kool-aid? She was such a great independent thinker and a critic of power on her radio show.
Obama will be in some multi-million dollar corporate sinecure.
Article 13 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice
Punishment
“No person, while being held for trial, may be subjected to punishment or penalty other than arrest or confinement upon the charges pending against him, nor shall the arrest or confinement imposed upon him be any more rigorous than the circumstances required to insure his presence, but he may be subjected to minor punishment during that period for infractions of discipline.”
A great deal of law has been written around the Nuremberg Trials. Others know far more about it than I. The Nuremberg Defense argues that a soldier is not responsible for war crimes ordered by a superior officer. Command Responsibility argues that the superior officer is responsible for war crimes he ordered and/or carried out. The question is: Is there a Nuremberg principle that allows a soldier to refuse to carry out an illegal (war crimes) order? Or to expose what the soldier feels is a war crime? Cheney and Bush lied the U.S. into a war with Iraq, invading a non-belligerent foreign country, killing large numbers of that population; suspended habeas corpus; “legalized” torture; invented the contradictory term “illegal enemy combatant.” Bush/Cheney (Obama) covered up the truth to commit war crimes; Private Manning presumably revealed the truth to prevent or expose war crimes. Who is right? Can Manning argue some kind of Nuremberg principle in his own defense?
Tammyanytiger
You are wrong. It was unconstitutional- it was a violation of the 4th. Amendment for the MP’s to search & seize Jane’s car without a warrant signed by a judge.
4th Amendment:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
I’d say we’re getting to them…
I realize that in the comment I made, I made grammatical, spelling and word choice errors. “Me and my husband” should be “My husband and I.” A better word choice for “good” in “I think it is good to remember” would be “important.” And “thou” is mispelled and should be “though.” I am correcting my own comment because I don’t want anyone on this website to think I am just some stupid Christian. Both my husband and I have Masters degrees, I from the University of Michigan, he from the University of Colorado. I realize this is a very liberal website, and I am a maverick here. I sort of stumbled upon it. I was an atheist myself at one time who thought all Christians were stupid fools. I would like to point out that Jesus never condoned cruelty or brutality. In fact, He said, “Love your enemies.” There’s no way you can twist “love” to mean “torture and kill.” Christian love is defined in I Corinthians 13:4-7: “Love is patient, love is kind….” To love is not an option for a Christian. It is a command. He says, “If you love Me you will obey My commandments,” and “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?” I am sure the chaplain of Quantico Marine Base knows this. So why isn’t he obeying his Lord, if he is a follower of Christ?
Having been on bases of several of the services hundreds of times, both professionally and as a journalist, drivers are asked for their licenses, insurance and registration before they enter the base. This was a break in procedure. Also, guards at most installations are now civilians.
They gave a false statement to media about the reason for detainment. That says enough for me. When somebody willingly says they will leave, and you don’t let them leave, that is a classic case for wrongful search and seizure. And a 2 hour detainment; that is not a typical search. This is clear intimidation. I’d sue their socks off.
This is all so amusing. There’s a big sign at the Quantio gate that states: “Persons and vehicles entering MCB Quantico are subject to search.”
Duh!
Sorry but attempting to enter a controlled area (guarded by MARINES for crying out loud), with expired tags and no written proof of insurance was just a bad idea. You GAVE them a valid reason to detain and search you, and to deny your access. Take some personal responsibility for a change.
Right on, Otis..it is amusing..
and, nowhere is this incident in the news.
Not only is it amusing but I believe it is a made-up hoax..
AP via NY Times must be in on the hoax then
absolutely, can’t believe a thing in the NYT..after all, they actually put in print, the writings of Paul Krugman..
This is not the way a Democracy works. Demand more Jane & don’t take it lying down. Scream to the high Heavens…You need all the help you can get but don’t stop till you tear that Wall of BS down for good. Damn, it makes you Mad as Hell to hear the way you guys were treated esp on orders from the top. I’d like to know who issued those orders to search detain & tow. To top it off the lamestream media is carrying out the propaganda that you were not detained…WTH…
There has been no verification that those orders came from “THE TOP.” The fact still remains they gave the MPs reasonable grounds for denial of access to the base and for being detained, in accordance with established security policies. The lesson here should be self-evident.
You can demand, yell and scream, “tear the wall down” etc., all you want. Fact is this isn’t 1967 and you aren’t Abbie Hoffman, so get over it.
At Quantico, that yelling and screaming and tearing the wall down will probably just get you apprehended for disorderly conduct.
——–|||/
——–(o o)
,—-ooO–(_)——-.
| Please |
| don’t feed the |
| TROLL’s ! |
‘————–Ooo–’
——–|__|__|
———|| ||
——–ooO Ooo
That doesn’t explain why David House was not allowed to see Manning.
Previously, he was able to walk there. He was on the approved visitors list. Why was David House detained at the gate until visiting hours were over? That is the issue.
The checkpoint guards told David House and Jane Hamsher that the orders came from on high.
First the MP said it came from the Top…This is a democracy & they are reporters that were being blocked access to Manning using any method necessary & the insurance proof was on digital access but they still had the car towed. That would not only piss you off but anyone. What if a cop pulled you over and asked you for proof of Ins & you couldn’t furnish it, so he had your car towed…How pissed offf would you be?
She’s a reporter that someone in congress will hear as she reports & complains using her best tool…the media…
Intimidation! Plain and simple! Real heroes?
To a checkpoint guard, “on high” could mean a 22 year old corporal.
Let’s find out who gave the order, because the detention was commanded from somewhere above the MP checkpoint guards.
Not to burst your bubble or anything, but if I were stopped and asked for proof of insurance, I would be able to furnish it. The state where I live requires a paper insurance card to be carried in the vehicle and presented with the registration. It’s pretty Jack n Jill simple. So my guess is that my car wouldn’t be towed, and accordingly, I wouldn’t be pissed off at all.
Look, all I am trying to say here is that if these two would have had everything with the car in order and up to date, they probably would have been allowed into the base. Again, take some accountability and responsibility for why things happened the way they did. Nobody here has even remotely admitted that the foregoing might have been the reason for the denial of access. Guess it’s easier to get all worked up, flap your arms and beat your chests like a bunch of kids who had their milk money stolen by a bully on the playground. Enough already. Had the car registration been up to date and a valid PAPER insurance card been present, and they were still detained/denied access, then you would in fact have a valid complaint. As it is, this chest beating and whining is nothing but cheap entertainment.
True but again remember that to a 19 year old Marine on the gate, “on high” could be a sergeant or a lieutenant.
Not so much for a Gunnery Sergeant though, who was also on the gate…
True, but I would still bet it was from within his immediate chain of command, and below the general officer level.
Does the age of the person giving the illegal order matter? I think not. Why was the order given to prevent House from visiting Manning and who gave that order?
Then whomever it was should be sent to a post at in East Bumf*ck for basic stupidity.
Your opinion.
Indeed it is. But if this order to harass Jane and David came from someone at or below the base level it is justified as what they’ve done is bring more attention to the situation. Bad PR move to go after a journalist/blogger, for whatever reasons.
They would have been far better served to just allow Jane and David to deliver the petition and visit Manning as had been done previously. Now, they’ve created an uproar and brought more and more attention to the situation.
It may have been a short term victory for them but will have long term effects, probably of the not-so-good kind
You’ve missed the point completely. Some here appear to be convinced that the order “came from the top.” The point is that when discussing military chain of command, the “top” can be the guy senior to the guy at the gate interacting with those who have requested access. So far, we have identified that the senior man at the gate was a Gunnery Sergeant. The order could have come to the Gunny from his lieutenant, captain, major or colonel. A Gunny is not very senior in the grand scheme of things, especially at a place like Quantico.
Point is that this isn’t necessarily some huge conspiracy being orchestrated at the DoD/general officer level aimed at keeping Manning’s visitors away from him. I know it’s hard for some here to grasp that possibility, especially when it is so much more fun to sit here and become intertwined in discussion regarding some probably nonexistent conspiracy.
Not surprising! Only more depressing by the day.
The only thing worse than hearing about situations like this is hearing: a) the somehow stunned response as if this behavior is surprising and new??? and b) the utter lack of outrage.
Yeah sure, a few of you might have busted a key or two but the real outrage will start when people (like Jane) who attempt to visit Bradley Manning start disappearing themselves.
Nah, who am I kidding, there will be no outrage. Everyone will probably just switch to another blog….
Depressing. Our future is really looking awful.
Harass? Were they handcuffed? Gagged? Waterboarded? Harass seems to be a wee bit alarmist, don’t you think?
As for your “uproar” that the Marine Corps has allegedly created, I’m just not seeing it. Seems the only “uproar” is here.
Yes, harass. If you’d like, I can go pull up the posts from yesterday explaining all the actions or you can just check out the top of the FDL front page.
Refusing them entry
Forcing them to stand outside in the cold
Refusing to let Jane and David leave after refusing them entry.
Asking for driver’s licenses, social security numbers, car registrations, multiple times when they had not been returned the first time all seems to fit the “harass” mode.
There is nothing that says they can’t as for drivers licenses, SSNs or car registration. Really.
The tone of the majority of the comments left here is alarmist in nature. Maybe the situation would be taken more seriously with a more grown up, lest whiny approach.
Have you even read Jane’s tweets and posts from yesterday?
There has been no contention that they couldn’t ask for the information. But coming back and asking for the same information to be provided multiple times when it had not been returned in the first place is what is being discussed.
Go read all the posts from yesterday of what was happening as it happened.
Yes I did read them.
The Marine Corps does things their own way. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying they do things their own way. Most large organizations do. They have set policies in place. You have no idea what else might have been going on at the base that might have altered the security posture on the day in question. You are aware that the helicopters that fly the president are kept there? It seems as though most here expect the authorities at Quantico to drop everything when Bradley gets a visitor. Just guessing that in the grand scheme of things, the commanding officer will lose very little sleep when he finds out that someone who is confined in the brig didn’t get to see their visitors.
Posting a bunch of whiny leftover hippie 1960s sounding comments does little to further your cause with “the establishment.” Write a letter to the commanding officer that unemotionally depicts the circumstances of the attempted access for the visit, and ask for an explanation for how you were treated. Don’t “demand” anything-be polite and ask instead. I guarantee you’ll get further with that approach than you will by acting like some kind of Abbie Hoffman wannabe.
You are making a lot of suppositions yourself.
Jane had told the Base PR person with whom she had dealt on earlier visits that she and David were going to be visiting Sunday, just as apparently she had given them courtesy notifications before.
Detaining them until just before the end of visiting hours, as was done, seems to be aimed at nothing more than making life uncomfortable for Jane and David and imposing extra burdens on Manning’s visitors’
Look, I’m a veteran myself and I have worked with all services in civilian life. I don’t give a damn that the Marine Corps “does things their own way.”
They are not acting in a manner that reflects the oath to the Constitution that I made and swore to uphold
You’re entitled to not give a damn all you want. And thank you for your service.
I would remind you that all of this over the top, emotional, alarmist dialogue (“I don’t give a damn that the Marine Corps “does things their own way.””) really detracts from the real issues. That’s what most here seem to fail to grasp.
As a veteran, you should be aware that the “Base PR person” doesn’t coordinate security or authorize visitors aboard the base. That is done by the Base Provost Marshall’s Office. Again, it goes back to what I said about the Marine Corps having their own way of doing things and their established policies and procedures.
I am a retired Marine. While I do not have a dog in the fight regarding Manning’s case, and have done my best here to keep my opinions regarding his actions to myself, I am, however, concerned about the fact that these recent events have painted the Marine Corps in a less than positive light.
I think it is the actions of the marines at Quantico that have precipitated that less than positive light. You can try to explain it or justify it all you want but the reality is, Jane and David were apparently fucked with because it could be done and had fuck all to do with “security”
Jane’s tweets seemed to omit that she was trying to enter a federal installation with expired tags. Complain that the military does disclose information and then fail to disclose info when it doesn’t portray you in a positive light. Way to be a hypocrite!
There you go, over the top again and now using profanity to boot. I have tried to logically, tactfully, and respectfully present my point of view and address what I believe are valid concerns.
I’ve done this without making disparaging remarks concerning Manning’s sexual orientation, or interjecting my opinion regarding his guilt or innocence. It appears that there is no place on this commentary for opposing viewpoints.
Accordingly, we’re done. Quite frankly, I don’t have time for you and the rest of the whiners here.
Thanks for helping shed light on all the facts. If Jane and David were a little more “together”, they probably would have been granted access to their friend.
“He executes justice for the orphan and the widow” (Deuteronomy 10:18).
The orphan and the widow represent the Bradley Mannings of this world.
God will give them justice. That is His promise, and He never breaks His promises.