I just wanted to say a quick thank-you to everyone today for your support when David House and I were being detained at Quantico.
I don’t think any of this had anything to do with me, or frankly the 42,000 petition signatures. The only thing I did was provide housing and transportation to David House, because he’s just out of college and Glenn Greenwald told him he could stay with me when he comes to visit Manning.
Everyone but David has stopped coming to see Bradley, and it takes a lot of courage to do what David is doing. It’s a very intimidating situation. So I try to support him by giving him a place to stay and driving him to the base when he comes to town. That’s really my only involvement.
There is no doubt in my mind that the primary objective of everything that happened today was to keep Bradley Manning from having the company of his only remaining visitor. The MPs told us they were ordered to do this, the brass showed up to make sure that they did, and they held us until 2:50 by repeatedly asking for information they already had whenever we asked to leave.
Visiting hours at the brig end at 3pm, and don’t begin again until the next weekend. It’s a half hour walk from the front gate to the brig, and although they have allowed David to walk before, they wouldn’t let him do it this time. They said he’d have to catch a cab and come back on the base, but they wouldn’t release him to do that until 2:50.
This was all about detaining David, not me. I would not be surprised to learn they were also punishing him for speaking out about Manning’s conditions. The State Department, the FBI and just about every three-letter government agency has been investigating David and the other Boston hackers since they began organizing support for Bradley Manning last summer, with one witch hunt after another attempting to implicate them in one of Adrian Lamo’s fabulist tales of a physical disk hand-off from Manning to Wikileaks. The New York Times keeps printing that one, over and over again, with the Justice Department whispering in their ear and nothing but the word of the inconsistent Lamo for evidence.
David has been detained at the airport, his computer seized and held for months with no explanation. The McCarthy-esque actions of the security agencies has terrified all of these idealistic young people. It is exceptionally admirable that David and others persist in supporting Bradley Manning despite it all.
The net effect of the MP’s actions today was to escalate the climate of threats and intimidation around David, a 23 year-old who just graduated from college, and cut Manning off from any personal contact with the one person who is still showing up to visit him after the government consciously scared everyone else off.
I am very happy that I went, and could be there to support David, because one of the first things the MPs said to us when we arrived — long before they asked for driver’s license, social security numbers, registration, phone numbers, quizzed us about the addresses on our licenses, etc, etc, was that they had orders to do all of this. Which means they were planning to detain us long before we got there. They were going to use any excuse to keep David from visiting Manning, and try to intimidate him from coming back.
It was really heartening to David to hear of everyone’s support when we were being threatened with arrest, searched and detained for two hours. What happened was not a surprise. It’s sad that this is what we have all come to expect when advocating for the civil rights of someone who has been identified as an “enemy of the state,” without benefit of a trial. But here we are.
It’s important to remember, however, that the true targets of today’s actions were Bradley Manning and David House. What is happening to both of them should be of concern of everyone, so I hope people don’t lose sight of that.





341 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
Thank you for being there for David, Jane.
I’m very glad you are both home safe and sound.
But very sad for Bradley Manning, who lost his only contact with the outside world today. On purpose, by design of his jailers.
I think the goal was to hide abuse of Brad from you Jane.
Any bets on an accidental suicide being announced?
Kudos Jane and no, I don’t think anyone’s lost sight of who and what this is really about.
I’m so glad you’re out. I was shocked and terrified.
As far as I can tell, no one else is reporting the incident.
Whats the latest count on the petition I and I think everyone today signed I hope the other Lefty blogs show some solidarity and cover this story and carry the petition.
Oh yeah, they’re more interested in keeping or cultivating access than they are in reporting what’s going on in Manning’s case.
Who was visiting before? After your detention I would think the MSM will be coming in with cameras for interviews.
Please, I want to emphasize this, I would not have seen anything even if they’d let us on the base. I drive David down there. I do what they tell me to do. Every other time, they told me to drop him off at the brig and then go to the MacDonalds and sit until 3pm. Their suggestion, not mine. Then I drive back to the brig and pick David up. We leave. That’s all I ever did.
If it wasn’t visible from the Quantico MacDonald’s, I was never going to see it.
I hope Brad has the strength to survive, and I hope David will feel renewed by the support that is out here for his efforts. Thank you so much, Jane, for helping.
These kinds of actions are so important for all of us who value what we are told our democracy stands for. It takes persistence and the witness of all of us.
Keep doing this good work. Thank you all.
And:
I must disagree. From what I have read it appears to me that the Marines made you, Mr. House, Mr. Manning and, by extension, anyone who give Manning personal, social and political support the target of their actions. The fact that you were just helping David House made you a target just as David House will remain a target as long as he helps Bradley Manning. The Marines and those who give them orders know that fear destroys solidarity. They would rather Bradley Manning suffer alone, without friends, family, a lawyer, political supporters, and, mostly, without hope. And they want others to fear the same treatment.
I’m not a lawyer but I think thats jury tampering especially if it turns out that the Justice Dept does not have the goods.
Many people have no idea how intimidating it can be to be detained by very large, fit, uniformed, heavily armed men, even for a short time, and asked to explain yourself and your identity. The intimidation is actually escalated by practiced politeness, which the person subject to questioning knows can be withdrawn at a glance. The “arrest” of Tessio by Michael Corleone’s henchmen late in the first Godfather; it is painfully polite, but it’s consequences are as immediate and painfully obvious.
One of the most obvious lessons George Bush never learned was that restraint is often an expression of greater power than reckless displays of power, which is ordinarily the mark of an immature personality that lacks confidence, someone with a Napoleonic complex. Mr. Obama sometimes hesitates, but he seems squarely in Mr. Bush’s camp.
So how is House doing? Did this incident spook him or strengthen his resolve? Thank goodness Jane was there to tweet the lil’ revolution. heh.
I think that’s what Jane meant by characterizing Lamo’s claims as fabulist, but the only support the Times, and hence the DoJ, mentions.
The sad thing is his guards are going to tell Brad that nobody came to visit him. They want him to feel isolated and abandoned.
It’s clear from what you’ve said.
Not from idiots that want it to be something else than what it actually was.
What can we do to help?
Got you David is the one they were trying to hide abuse from. They have had Brad locked up for months its a little late to try solitary as an interrogation technique though that smells like a cover story Brad has had time to get used to it by now. Amateur hour stories Chicago cops would come up with something better.
Put it this way. The same thing would have happened to David, in one form or another, whether I had been there or not.
If I showed up without him, they would’ve just said “lady, go home, you have no reason to be here.” And they’d be right. The fries at MacDonalds are just not worth a 45 minute drive on a Sunday afternoon.
Thank you for helping David remain a friend to Manning through all of this and allowing him to continue to visit. This is a lifeline for all of us and you may not see it as heroic, but it means a great deal that there are people willing to help others in need like this.
Transparency is essential to keeping people focussed on Manning’s safety and his right to humane treatment and a fair trial. This is the LEAST we should expect from a Country such as ours. I’m so glad that that there are people who understand why this is so vital to the continued survival of our Democracy, well what’s left of it.
You have been to jail I take it or your really really good at knowing stuff.
Name Calling whats next :)
This will sound maybe naive (I don’t think I am), cliche (hate ‘em as much as anyone)and I should know better (Ok, got me) but all I know is what I feel and I just shook my head and said I can’t believe this is happening in America. guess I haven’t really been payinmg attention all this time.
But you were there, and had to deal with this abuse of power because you were there. It’s the institution’s behavior that counts, not one aspect of the intention behind the behavior. The institution made you a target because you were there, because your being there was an act of solidarity with Bradley Manning.
Well glad you are OK Jane, and David too! It takes alot of guts for both of you to do what you do. Very dangerous with so many weapons around too. How many people mysteriously commit suicide or have accidents trying to expose government and military garbage? No conspiracy, if they want you out of their hair, they have far more resources to do it, than you. Even the media would spin their side of the stories, just as they do when police officers overstep the laws. Just watch your back Jane. Remember, you guys are playing with a multibillion dollar killing force.
Only slightly off topic is the fast growing casualty list from
VietnamAfghanistan:US Army SGT Ethan C Hardin, 25, Fayetteville, AR
US Army PFC Ira B Laningham IV, 22, Zapata, TX
US Army PFC Robert J Near, 21, Nampa, ID
US Army SSG Omar Aceves, 30, El Paso, TX
US Army CPL Jarrid L King, 20, Erie, PA
US Army SPC Benjamin G Moore, 23, Robbinsville, NJ
US Army SGT Zainah C Creamer, 28, Texarkana, TX
US Army MAJ Evan J Mooldyk, 47, Rancho Murieta, CA
US Army PFC Zachary S Salmon, 21, Harrison, OH
US Army SPC Jose A Torre Jr, 21, Garden Grove, CA
US Army SGT Michael P Bartley, 23, Barnhill, IL
US Army SPC Martin J “Mickey” LaMar, 43, Sacramento, CA
US Marines Cpl Joseph C Whitehead, 22, Axis, AL
US Army MAJ Michael S Evarts, 41, Concord, OH
US Army SPC Joshua T Lancaster, 22, Millbrook, AL
US Marines Sgt Jason G Amores, 29, Lehigh, PA
US Navy PO Dominique Cruz, 26, Panama City, FL
US Army PFC Amy R Sinkler, 23, Chadbourn, NC
No, I understand the military mind. That’s all. I know what motivates them because I’ve been on the receiving end of military “justice” before.
They either don’t have a case or they want him to confess to something he didn’t do. Why the gig is up what does he gain by holding out. what does the Dept of Justice gain they know pretty much everything they need to send him to prison even without a confession
I think they want more either a fake story implicating others or for him to tearfully recant like a Chinese Prisoner in a Maoist reeducation camp.
Well fuck, I’m not scared. Can I visit the guy?
Jane and David, thank you both for your steadfastness, and for getting this horrendous story out into the public.
Thank you, Jane, for being there for and with David. David is one awesome young man to be sticking up for Bradley. Something we can do in the meanwhile is send warm, caring thoughts to Bradley.
Yes its like the police mind.
do you think the average American really cares what happens to a soldier who commits treason ?? ***Mod Note:Please do not suggest or advocate violence. Thanks.***
I think this was more about intimidation of the Press/blogs.
Too often an oxymoron, like Texas justice?
*sending peaceful thoughts to Manning*
Do you think Cheney should be placed in solitary confinement indefinately with a belt?
Oh, now it looks like I have iTourette’s.
Thank you Jane and David.
To a certain extent. Military cops don’t have to pretend to be operating within a system in which rights are protected. They own Manning. They rule supreme on their little patches of land. They don’t have to pretend.
What treason news that diplomats thought Tunisia was corrupt? News that American diplomats make unflattering remarks about the leaders of other countries. What was leaked that hurt our troops or could hurt our troops? I don’t remember Scooter Libby going to jail and he outed our own spy during wartime thats treason during wartime and the firing squad.
Do you really think the government and the military cares about the press or blogs? They can pull your internet plug whenever they want with umpteen excuses. They can arrest you for anything, anytime, on their terms. This isn’t conspiracy. Betcha innocent people from Gitmo still don’t know why they are there. Same principle basically. People are powerless to the complete militarization of society. If they want you gone, you are gone. Period. And they will spin it till the cows come home, and eventually everyone will believe it. Case in point…WMD in Iraq. Afghanistan is yet another. I wish no ill toward Jane, David or anyone, but you have to always consider who the opponent is. They have billions, thousands of people at their disposal, and the weapons to say they are in charge.
The Twitter “happening” made David really happy. When that kind of thing is going on, it really takes the pressure off to realize that 500 people just followed you and are watching what happens to you in real time. It limits what they can do, and more importantly, where your imagination about what they can do will go.
I kept retweeting David’s Twitter handle over and over again and people started following him. Made us laugh in the middle of it all. At one point I just tweeted “I blame Glenn Greenwald” so everyone would know we were in good spirits & still capable of laughing.
Hmm, that doesn’t seem to even approach a mod line.
Ok they are worse than regular cops but sloppy they are not used to having the Press spotlight what they are doing like regular cops would.
I think the reason is more obvious: they don’t want outside observers having access to manning. they could go to jail for 20 years if they are torturing manning. these are not the actions of innocent people.
This is all I am able to pull up on Google right now:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/23/AR2011012303911.html
I tried leaving news tips messages with the Guardian (sympathetic to solitary confinement and human rights abuses) and Al Jezeera (having an open mind to American hypocrisy regarding detainees) and the Canadian Press. Next time it would be helpful to know who to write to and if the major newspapers follow what is going on. I also left a news tip first with the NYTimes right away, they were the first and we see how responsive they have been, now that it is almost tomorrow!
Glad you are okay. Hopefully this will edge up to the Secretary of the Navy level really soon.
I know. And given the context, I’m sick of it.
Get a standard, and stick to it, or else it’s All Quantico All The Time.
Jury tampering with extra-judicial releases of false information.
Yes, indeed.
To borrow from Joseph Welsh, may we please we edit to adjust for changed circumstance and address President Obama and his Secretary of Defense Gates:
This was addressed to Senator McCarthy at the height of the alcohol fueled red-scare that ended with his attack on the U.S. Army in 1954.
If they have no case on this young man, so be it. Indulging sleep deprivation, various torments, and isolation — worse by a solid measure than what Senator McCarthy did to his victims.
Shameful.
BTW: the original –
Mr. WELCH. I meant to do you no personal injury, and if I did, beg your pardon.
Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?
You forget they get off on intimidation they want to be feared have you never seen cats play with mice?
So Jane, what’s the plan for next Sunday?
If you’re not busy, I bet David House could use a ride.
Jane it was totally human of you (in the best sense of the word) to give David so much support today.
What’s happening to our country?
“It’s important to remember, however, that the true targets of today’s actions were Bradley Manning and David House. What is happening to both of them should be of concern of everyone, so I hope people don’t lose site of that.”
It is really about prosecuting Wikileaks and Julian Assage. Manning is not a threat to anyone but Assange. If they squeeze a statement out of him then they will grab Assange. That looks like the intent. as well as threaten any further whistle blowers.
This is about protecting the MIC oligarchy. My 2 cents.
True enough, I agree. I also think they really don’t care one way or another. The military does what it wants to, when it wants to it seems. They are their own nation.
Like Kumari on another thread, you confuse the government’s claims about what Mr. Manning did with what he actually did, which facts the government can and is willing to prove in a court of law, and whether its process of confinement, trial and post-trial treatment comport with the government’s obligations under the law.
Throwing around mischaracterizations, such as claiming that Mr. Mannning is a “traitor” when that hasn’t been claimed or proven yet, is rather more harmful than calling the author of comments like yours a troll.
The line “let him keep his belt” suggests, Beck or Limbaugh-like, that you hope something untoward might happen to Mr. Manning while in his cell and awaiting trial, the sort of thing that used to happen in Southern jails to people of color, and which would be officially if incredibly explained as self-abuse. The comment is not amusing; it is troll-like and vicious. It also usefully, I presume from your perspective, distracts from the government’s underlying conduct, which Mr. Manning found so offensive that he risked this sort of treatment to publish it.
Perfect summation of how I feel you got my vote for best comment of the day.
I would like to apologize to all of you for having supported Barack Obama. During the primaries, he was my favored candidate by default because the alternative, at the time, was Hillary Clinton, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the DLC. In the general election, he was the alternative to an embittered culture warrior who wanted to re-litigate Vietnam (and don’t even get me started on his running mate).
Obama turned out to be Mr. Bait-and-Switch, sleazier and smarmier than a timeshare salesman in the condo belt of Cancun. And I fell for his sales pitch. Shame on me.
Agree.
Normally I’m very supportive of the moderation around here and it’s not nearly as capricious as it is some places but there are times when it gets inexplicably…..strict.
I heard someone ask a question today that Idon’t know the answer to.
Why is an Army Private being held in the Marine’s jail?
Kudos to you, Jane, for staying cool and immediately reporting the situation. Smart move!
????
Clear threat of violence
Thank you, Jane, for the immediate reporting of what was happening. It’s so sad that this is the America we’re living in now.
I wonder when Bradley’s lawyer is going to see him again and how soon we can find out Bradley’s state.
These comments are being viewed by lot of people, so I’ll just ask everyone to be extra careful and know that the mods are just being (understandably) cautious right now.
Is it just me or are there alot of posts disappearing?
That’s also exactly the same sort of reassurance that Manning needs right now…! I fervently hope that David will be able to convey it to him next weekend…! *g*
Oh….ok Jane…didn’t see your post there. So things are getting lost in moderation. Gotcha. Glad to see everyone ok today!!!
Grrrr.
I didn’t say ONE controversial thing, and POOF!
Jane?
I read this from the AP:
Quantico spokesman Col. Thomas V. Johnson says the car was towed after the pair could not provide proof of insurance and guards found the vehicle’s license plates had expired.
Is that last part true?
Thank you, guys. Be careful.
Yes they had, but that was not why they towed the car. They said it was illegal to drive without proof of insurance.
You didn’t have insurance slip? I thought it was illegal to drive without proof of insurance.
*heh* Earlier I’d asked Lurk if he was all nomex-kevlared up…? ;-)
Again, what can we do to help? Gripe to Congresscritters, call Quantico Base and gripe, both, others, what?
Jane, thank you for being there. A support system is the most important thing and David is fortunate to have you there. If I had a problem, I would certainly want you on my side. Give our best to David and a pat on the back for being Manning’s friend. Both of them must be pretty special. Let us know what we can do.
Solitary is a punishment for bad jail behavior and or away to handle prisoners who can’t be controlled but thats regular jail. Assuming Brad does not fall in these categories that leaves Torture as the reason why he is in solitary.
After all they should already have enough to bring him to trial. I am open to other theories on this.
Very good question. He is a Colonel. Was he also intimidated procedurally?
Hmmm. Interesting.
Always a damned good idea to look the car and paperwork over before going onto a military installation. The rule applies: Don’t give them an excuse.
Thanks for the reply. I had been following it all live so I was aware about the insurance bit. I just wondered if that license expiration bit was true or not.
Thanks so much providing support to House’s courageous efforts to support Manning during this awful ordeal.
Its a ticket they don’t tow your car but I don’t know military traffic law. The license expired thats also a ticket again no towing the car.
I was about to say the same thing.
I had it on PDF on a computer, not on paper. They demanded it on paper so I asked if I could walk a block to the 7/11 and print it, and they would not let me.
The part about “not detained” is a crock. Someone seriously thinks I sat there for 2 hours and didn’t try to leave? Over and over again? Really?
As a former Lt. Col., Manning’s lawyer will be a little harder to intimidate than a 23 year-old college student, though procedural roadblocks can still prevent him from routine access or mounting an effective defense. A major concern would be the lack of privacy in any exchange between him and Manning, which would expose the defense’s strategy as well as be generally intimidating – and generally illegal, too.
No, certainly a bunch of enlisted gate guards aren’t going to try to pull shit like that on a Colonel.
QUANTICO, Va. (AP) — Two backers of a jailed Army private suspected of passing classified documents to the WikiLeaks website say their car was towed after they arrived at a Marine base to visit him.
David House and blogger Jane Hamsher say in a statement they had not had problems previously driving onto the Quantico base. But they say they were detained and unable to visit Army Pfc. Bradley Manning on Sunday.
Quantico spokesman Col. Thomas V. Johnson says the car was towed after the pair could not provide proof of insurance and guards found the vehicle’s license plates had expired. He says both weren’t detained.
Manning’s civilian attorney said Friday he has filed a complaint over Manning’s treatment. The former intelligence analyst in Iraq is being held while the Army determines whether he’ll be tried.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WIKILEAKS_ARMY_PRIVATE?SITE=WSAW&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
We’re working on a plan tonight. Suggestions welcome!
Oh, I see. Sad. Glad you two are all right Jane.
Even in the 80s with a green active duty ID card, they would tow you if they caught you on base like that. They wouldn’t let you drive another foot. Usually just coming onto base though you would have the opportunity to turn around and drive off.
Unbelievable. I can be called an “asshole” on a thread, and using no such inflammatory language, my comment on THIS thread’s held in moderation.
Fine.
I hope that is not so when I go to celebrate and make a special comment on the birth of M. Ibn Leith’s newest child.
Really? In Canada, you would be taken away and your car towed for expired plates and/or no insurance slip (original)
I thought they had enough to get Assange on printing the wikileaks why would they need Brad’s confession?
Maybe they don’t just want Assange. Maybe they want to try and make sure to shut down Wikileaks permanently?
Thanks so much for yours and Margarets’ wonderful advice. I got that.
Now, about the guy who’s being tortured, and the other one who’s being hounded by the security agencies, because I do think that is the larger issue here.
If it has your insurance information they can verify it by calling it in just like they do cars they suspect have fake insurance cards.
MA residents should tell Senator Kerry (202-224-2742) to investigate today’s blatant harassment of his constituent, David House. Not to mention the sadistic mistreatment of Bradley Manning.
Valid Theory and that would explain why he’s in solitary. I can think of no competing theories but again I am open to suggestions.
Slight correction: His website says he’s a Lt. Colonel in the reserves.
A videographer with long range audio recording capability set up on public property, eg, sidewalk, prior to your arrival. Mayhaps one of Robert Greenwald’s folks.
I’ve started to list my suggestions. Will add some more; you can whittle them down:
1) Call Congressman or -woman and complain about behavior of Marines in this incident.
2) Contact Secretary of Defense and/or head of Quantico Marine Base; complain about behavior of Marines in this incident.
3) Tweet and Facebook about it.
4) Try to get corporate media interested in story.
5) I feel goofy suggesting this, since I’m on the West Coast and wouldn’t be there to put myself on the line, but perhaps people might be interested in civil disobedience of some sort around this incident. They’re obviously going for some sort of Jose Padilla-lite treatment of Manning, and this might help draw attention to the situation.
As a p.s. of sorts, feel free to e-mail us when you come up with an action plan. I check in intermittently and might miss notification.
Those are some ideas…
If I was Assange’s attorney I would advise him to seek and accept asylum in Finland. That might take some pressure off of manning and get him off of the hot seat he is on. Transparency is the most feared thing our government has to face. As long as the USA crime spree continues repression is the “Order of the Day” (a military term for what is to be done).
If I was Jane’s attorney I would see about getting on MSM tomorrow with David and Manning’s attorney and a rep from ACLU and Amnesty International.
They will if they are ordered to do so.
“court of law” ?? …. how about a routine court martial where the military gets to judge it’s own …. war is hell and there is no place for some PC waffling !!
Conspiracy convictions draw heavy slammer time.
House did not get to visit Manning. You could not present your petitions. You were not allowed in or out for two hours. The rest is spin from Quantico.
My first suggestion would be to go early next weekend after first going over your car and it’s paperwork twice. Make sure all the tires are good, all the blinkers work, both headlights come on, etc. Also that registrations and inspections and etc are current. Don’t give them an excuse to detain you or tow your car. Also familiarize yourself with the UCMJ. No quarter. They aren’t going to give you any.
To clarify. It seems that the procedure has been put into place by the upper chain of command to keep people from seeing Manning not the MPs at the base gate. Was a little lazy with that last comment. Sorry.
And how much active duty have you done?
No, they won’t. Period. No PFC or Lance Corporal is going to try to pull that same kind of shit on a Colonel. They can delay him other ways but they wouldn’t be able to get away with bullshit House and Hamsher went through.
Maybe a follow up post on the effects of solitary confinement? A refresher on Jose Padilla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Padilla_(prisoner)
Am I the only one here who is seeing Parallels? Or am I just ranting:)
It never occurred to me that we needed to be wary of our own military until Kent State. Now the situation is 100 times worse and it is alarming. The young people in this country have a lot to fear.
I just love the smell of disinformation in the morning!
Yes, they were getting orders from higher up. No a bunch of grunts wouldn’t use the same tactics on a Colonel. There would have to be base CO involvement or OOD involvement at the least.
Judging by the content of that comment, my guess would be zero.
Yes but he handed the information over to wikileaks thats conspiracy to release classified material right there. What do they want conspiracy to bring down the Government or help Ossama?
Thats a stretch a big stretch but yes its possible.
*heh* Maybe a firepup already possesses a DoD base sticker and the ability to be ‘waved’ on…! ;-)
If they had orders to arrest the Lt. Colonel and they refused to arrest the Lt. Colonel when they had the opportunity to do so, they would be in deep shit. If they were ordered to stonewall the Lt. Colonel and they had the opportunity to do so, then….
Since when can enlisted men disobey direct orders from a superior without suffering the consequences?
Thank you so much once again. Message received, Margaret.
I’ll do what everyone thinks is best for the situation, and rest assured that has nothing to do with the state of my vehicle. I have a printer, the tags will arrive shortly, and my car is in excellent working condition.
Now, there’s a guy who was TORTURED today when his only regular visitor, who has been out of the country for a month, was not allowed to see him. Was held until right before the brig visitation hours were over, by being asked repeatedly for things they already had and then left to stand there for 40 minutes and suddenly released without comment. Maybe people would like to give some thought to that, because we know that he really suffered this week already, and is probably not in a good place tonight.
For everyone else tempted to lose sleep over my car, I appreciate your concern, but I assure you that is not on the list of priorities at the moment.
Good lets get Scooter Libby before a military trial also if Brad is in a Marine Prison then I assume he would be tried by Military rules. The Justice Dept is involved because this is that big.
The order to detain came from on high, but who exactly made the decision to bar House from visiting? A nice front page picture of the guy might not hurt. Maybe a little story about they guy’s background and professional relationships. Why should the decisionmaker get to be anonymous?
Huff Post shows people in their underwear, every marriage, divorce and affair, and all of Michelle’s wardrobe and not a word about this incident – jealous much?
They aren’t going to get orders “to arrest” Manning’s lawyer. That’s just silly. And there is a difference between a lawful order and a direct order. Ordering the arrest of a Colonel solely to prevent him or her from seeing his or her client wouldn’t be a lawful order. Don’t double down on this argument. You are mistaken on this occasion. It ain’t gonna happen.
Torturing Manning is not a lawful order. And yet…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Padilla_(prisoner)#Criticism_of_his_conviction
I fear history maybe repeating.
No, that’s not a conspiracy. If it were that easy they wouldn’t have gone through all this shit. They’d have charged Assange and Manning with conspiracy out of the box. Assange says Wikileaks is set up so they don’t know who provides information. They have to link Manning with another human being at Wikileaks who knew what s/he was receiving. They want that other human being to be Assange.
I was just trying to point out that the state of your car was the excuse they used to prevent visitation and that maybe it would be helpful to not give them that excuse in the future.
But I’ll leave you alone if that’s not helpful. Goodnight.
Sorry that was for Jane@115
I’s dotted and T’s crossed, M’dear…! *g*
I’m aware of all that Margaret, thank you once again.
Yeah, I’ve been going over there periodically. *crickets*
The Dept of Justice knows that to much solitary effects the very soundness of any information they get from Brad. But it does make him more likely to confess to anything they want.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102486453
Wow, DU and Raw Story are on it with many positive comments…!
Marcy, Bmaz, Mary and the crew that comment from a legal background would be nice to hear from. Maybe Scott Horton, Glenn and others would help you get some justice and a medical exam of the prisoner.
Thanks Jane,
You are right, this is about punishing Manning’s supporters, intimidation of supporters and would-be supporters and torture by isolation of Manning. A shame on the U.S. government. Obama’s war on suspected whistle-blowers makes Bush-Cheney Co. look like pansies…
The best thing to do is to continue to shine a light on the abuse, in context with our “rule-of-law”–a scarce thing these days.
Perhaps more persons of courage and conscience can be found to visit Mr. Manning.
Thanks for the clarification but once you put Brad in solitary any confession he gives well I don’t think any EU country would turn him over based on what they consider a torture confession.
I admit that Jon Woo’s theory of law may be blinding the Dept of Justice to that fact.
Yeah, I noticed that at HuffPo. I haven’t looked at DailyK cause I’m off the orange.
I think Raw Story picked it up first.
I know what you were doing I was just pointing out the excuse was weak I’ve gotten tickets for both no insurance and expired plates before and no I was not towed for either of those violations but I did have to go to court. Hmmm? did they write Jane a ticket or just tow her car?
I like David’s tweet: “The US government is like any animal: scare it and it will try to tear your face off.”
Something tells me all of the intimidation isn’t going to convince David to quit.
It’s not a DK, Crooks and Liars, or America Blog…..yet.
Sorry that was for Jane@115
Crap I’m sorry Margaret
From “Sheriff Deputizes Military Policemen” (by By SFC Don Veitch, Courtesy of Massachusetts National Guard Public Affairs, Camp Edwards, MA, June 9, 2010):
In 2007, this program began:
(excerpt “Civilian Police,” accesed Jan. 24, 2011)
Quantico is shown as one of the work locations.
Also notice (the bold is my emphasis):
(excerpt from “News Releases” July 23, 2010)
One shouldn’t have to guess if one is talking to a city or county police officer. Guess you’d have to have their name, badge number and, in this case, go to the Prince William County Sheriff’s Office to find out if they are the nearest City police, County police or County sheriff-deputized MPs? Here’s “Limitation of Authority to Deputize DoD Uniformed Law.”
It would be great for a lawyer to follow up on this and make a post.
Anyone organizing a vigil outside the main gate, off DOD property? Some old fashion hippie sit-in, 1st amendment sort of thing?
Its worse than animals, animals attack for a reason this is adrenaline power junkies needing ways to get high/show their power they will attack anything that moves they need to humiliate their victims publicly think Senator McCarthy Red Scare hearings or Mao Show trials.
Jane, where is Manning’s family? Does anyone have a clue?
ThingsComeUndone said,
“After all they should already have enough to bring him to trial. I am open to other theories on this.”
I find it hard to believe that with the weight of the Gov’t in action they haven’t found out all there is to find out.
I am scared that PFC Manning will be held indefinitely, otherwise his attorney would make cold oatmeal out of the JAG’s. There are so many inconsistancies and outright deceptions in his treatment.
What we can do is keep PFC Manning in the spotlight as well as we are able. Eventually the MSM has to pick up on the story. Don’t they?
Thank you David and Jane and all you pups! Fight the good fight.
David House sounds like one classy and articulate person.
Wait they hold your license for one ticket or make you produce an insurance bond card they were not accepting Jane’s insurance as valid. Was a ticket issued?
Can the military issue tickets?
Where is Manning’s family. It’s odd he has to rely on strangers. Makes it much more difficult to generate ‘human interest’ type stories when only politically motivated people are taking his side. Where are his parent, siblings, uncles, friends?
What Teddy said in the first comment.
Military has complete authority on bases. Not like laws, rules of evidence, police procedure, etc. elsewhere. Once on base, you have no rights except those extended by the commanding officer.
Guilt by association? They have failed completely as family.
Agreed it took months but we eventually got the Main Stream Media to do stories on Ossama bin Forgotten. My almost nightly Late Late Nite Rants and the other Lefty Blogs helped push that story. I think the key is if you repeat a story often enough and keep getting comments eventually an MSM hack with writers block will steal you ideas.
The Net works because we offer our ideas for free. We criticize each other and strengthen our ideas through argument and by being free we have no slant from our advertisers just our personal slant on things.
I can’t answer that one but the traffic court system in civilian life I am very familiar with:(
But do they give out tickets?
Looked like it to me too as I was watching several places to see who headlined first.
I will brag just a little. I have never had a ticket and now I don’t drive any more so my record is clean.
*heh* I’ve been on Camp Edwards… We got promptly kicked off of it, when we’d set off too many detonations in too short a time span… I’d heard later that Uncle Sam had to shell out some serious duckies for some Hyannis Port, chrystal and China Sets we’d shattered…! ;-)
We wanted to expend our load(c-4, tnt, etc) and get out’ve dodge…! Twasn’t good…! To say the least…! ;-)
SIAP, the AP has reported it and the WaPo picked it up.
all the car crap pertained only to Jane.
what was the “reason” given for denying House the right to visit?
Teddy Partridge is upstairs!
Sunday Late Night: Funky Frosh Follies
I would consider the possibility of renting a vehicle for future visits.
Such a pile of shit. The writer was Alex Dominguez. He spoke with David & Trevor at lenght, saw the statement, had a link to the blog post, I called him & he never answered his phone.
Yet he doesn’t link to the statement, doesn’t include David’s rebuttal, or Trevor’s. The idea that we could have left any time is abjectly ludicrous.
“Both sides have point” has been reduced to “you get a point if we say you do.”
Jane, I hope you consider asking someone to call John Dean. You sold a lot of books for him and he might be able to provide a range of assistance.
Thank you. Your clarity and ability to get to the critical point is inspirational.
Will Secretary Colin Powell take your phone call, or someone’s you both know? A private citizen with prestige? Secretary Powell might want to reclaim some credibility is why I suggest him.
Or have a friend drop you off a block away or take a cab. They would have fewer excuses for hassle.
~~~Edited in moderation, down to this smaller url~~~
Was there ever an answer to that question? And who made the decision?
It’s on the rec list right this minute. They picked it up as it was happening, but you have to pay attention to the diary list.
They can enforce base laws, including traffic. They have much more remedy under the Uniform Code of Military Justice on service personnel. I don’t know about civilians on base–likely they can cite you. Also escort you off base if they want.
Just read the UCMJ rules of proceedings…not good on time to try cases in “times of war.” Considering our perpetual “War on Terra (t).
deleted by author
I take it you were active duty at the time and were taking care of business with some live munitions over at the dump on base? Bet the blue-blood Commonwealth of Virginia blue hairs were all over the base commander on that one.
Responding to Twain at 170
I’m not familiar with Quantico, but someone else on an earlier thread mentioned that it’s very isolated. Without a vehicle, the concern was that they would pick Jane and David up for vagrancy.
I like a caravan idea, several vehicles providing mutual support, but my guess is that the Marines really would not like that. They might interpret that as provacation.
Thanks, enjoyed it.
This is on recommended diaries at Daily Kos with over 1200 comments so far.
Oh that was good. ;)
;-)
No there was never an answer. Every time we asked to leave, they wanted something else.
That went on and on.
The key is to have a small dog in a <a href=" (@0.12)…gets right by the guards!
Canine Infiltration…
Jane, WLCentral.Org posted this today:
2011-01-23 David House harassed, detained, and prevented from delivering petition to Bradley Manning
Submitted by Justin Paxton on Sun, 01/23/2011 – 20:26
Excerpt:
Just goes to show, once again, the importance of this website.
This is not North Korea.
Thank you Jane for being there with David (and Bradley Manning!) (and all thoughtful people who understand liberty.}
With your SSN, they can do a credit check on you. All three credit bureaus sell products that will tell you if someone has been poking around your credit file. Whether those off-the-shelf products reveal a request from a government agency is unknown to me.
Once they have your SSN, they could give it to someone on the street to try to screw with your credit. The credit bureaus will likewise sell you products that require a higher level of authorization to secure credit. That might provide you with a significantly enhanced level of protection.
A long time ago, Mary did some work in creditor’s rights. She might know people who could give you more timely advice.
The standard is attack the idea not the person. Heck I think I came up with that standard trying to break up a BlueButterfly/Mac fight. I admit my own words have been quoted back at me but we do try and promote vigorous argument without getting personal here.
Thanks. I never look over there. In fact, I seldom read – just check to see what they are whining about.
Jane – seems as good a time as any to come out of lurk. Preaching to the choir here I know given your background … but this needs a cohesive narrative based on the TRUTH that then needs to get pushed bigtime. FB, Twitter, here, empathetic fellow bloggers ~ make people CARE about Bradley; make them CARE about David – and make them care about what happened today. Then make them care about the ramifications to their own little worlds – because it does have very scary ones. I cannot answer the how to this? But I believe its thought on the right track.
My handle comes from a perspective gained after a trip to Haiti last year & the complete removal of rose colored glasses as far as what REALLY goes on in the world. I now wear my tin hat proudly. What was done today was deliberate & with a scary intent that speaks volumes about the world we are living in today. I know you’re good at it Jane … find the *story* here … then tell it in a way to cut through the malaise and the noise and make people realize this IS important. To them. To this country. Little fingers in the dikes are not going to cut it any more – the dam is about to break and all of our rights and the world we want for our kids and grandkids is going to be gone. Gone because we let them scare & manipulate us into not caring – or worse – thinking we have no power to make a difference. I take heart reading about what you and David did today. At least you tried. The level of telling truth to b.s. is high here at FDL. Always has been. Thank you for that. End rant.
The key is to have a small dog in a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4eNzokgRIw&feature=player_embedded (@0.12)…gets right by the guards! Canine Infiltration…
sorry wrong url
Had to leave just after Jane’s last tweet that they were being allowed to leave. Glad to see so much attention being paid…hope there will be more.
This kind of intimidation – let alone what it means about what was happening to Bradley Manning that required this behavior – is intolerable in a free country. Of course….
Twenty years ago I would not have believed this could happen.
I still don’t understand why they were asked for SSN’s – that’s as outrageous, maybe more so, than towing the car for what should be no more than a ticketing offense (they were not on base, so not like they were “caught” on base).
I can see that Jane is still righteously angry, and I don’t blame her.
And can’t criticize the extra-careful moderation either, since as JH said, it is quite likely FDL is getting much more careful scrutiny, esp. this post, right now. I have no problem with erring on the side of caution in such cases.
… until visitng hours were over, then you were free to go?
David House tweeted the question What’s going on in the brig? Has he speculated about why he was prevented from vising Manning? His question makes it seem like this was about Manning’s treatment, not intimidation of House.
Yes, but this is the USA!
“The Superstar in rent-a-car” that is! :D
What about the Red Cross? Don’t they get involved in cases like this? I read today that Amnesty International has complained. I’m going to send a letter to Carl Levin.
Oh, ysp, IIRC, visiting hours weren’t over yet—there were ten whole minutes left./s
A nice touch, I thought.
Completely agree about asking for the SSN. That is a huge invasion of privacy. That’s why driver license numbers are not tied to the SSN.
painful, yes.
Thank you, Jane and David, for being there for all American citizens of conscience. Laying the unconscionable MIC open is precisely what the MSM lacks the courage and ethics to do. I will be standing with you as you continue to portray the ugliness of ultimate unchecked authority and the enemy of the Republic.
sp
‘got time to get used to it’ How stupid is that? ~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~ As your mind deteriorates the effect increases. It is torture, nothing less, and can lead to Manning’s death or worse, the loss of his mental and physical well being. Death under torture is murder, so you clowns who hold him take care.
~~~ModNote: Attack the message, NOT the messenger, please.~~~
The SSN is considered so private that it is recommended that you not carry it with you for fear of loss or theft. The military had no right to do that.
Yes, the pain has increased markedly over the past 6-7 years, sorry to say.
I think it might be more of a case of trying to suborn perjury. They want Manning to say he handed Assange the files personally.
And BTW, how many other PFCs in the military have access to 250,000 top secret US government documents? Stinks like old sneakers.
Both good ideas, especially Amnesty International.
btw, on the question of ticketing – been racking my brain back to when I clerked for a US Magistrate, in whose court civilian offenses on military bases (there were five here at the time) were heard.
Can’t remember if they were technically “tickets,” but I do believe that minor offenses such as traffic violations on base were handled similarly. Civilians not arrested for speeding, running a red light, expired plate, etc.- just given a ticket or equivalent to appear in Mag court at a later date.
Things were a bit more casual then, long pre- 9/11, OKC, etc. Ft Sam Houston here lies between a couple major thoroughfares, and many drivers simply cut through the base to get to their destination. Since then, many gates once open closed permanently, and much more scrutiny to anyone wanting to get on base.
Amnesty’s Letter: http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR51/006/2011/en/df463159-5ba2-416a-8b98-d52df0dc817a/amr510062011en.pdf
If they couldn’t give their genuine SSN’s, the MP’s would assume they’re carrying box cutters.
I used to drive all over Fort Hood pre-911 working on birds. Base was wide open to all.
Obama = Stalin.
I think the issue is what kind of creeps are authorizing this bizarre behavior. Find out and kick some ass, or better, nuts. Assholes. The cops just do what they are told.
Dated January 19. Today’s the 23rd. Looks like that AI letter went straight into the circular file.
Fear when its fresh can scare a confession quick. He has been in there for months unless he is suicidal he is used to the pain sure it hurts still but by now he is nolonger afraid. The mind shuts down and goes nuts the fear effect however decreases as you lose your sense of time and well sanity.
If you want a sane confession for the cameras and that will hold up in court you need to do this quick before he loses his mind.
After months of Solitary all his visitors leaving well having been to jail nobody visited and sometimes my family forgot to call once a week or maybe I forgot was to depressed to call them I can testify that lack of human contact for some people at least is something you get used too.
Or to put it another way a fellow prisoner said if you can’t stop thinking about sex as often as you normally do locked up with a bunch of guys…
All the questions at the guard shack were stalling tactics, nothing more…SSN, Insurance,…”May I see your papers?” Point was to delay, as ordered, until visiting time was over.
It is about power: because we can.
Yeah, I think those days are gone. I haven’t been on a base in years, but then I rarely did even when they were open. Frankly, I’d be very nervous, no matter how carefully I drove, these days.
Yeah, but for what purpose? To isolate Manning and get a “confession”? To prevent House from seeing and documenting Manning’s decline? To intimidate House so that Manning no longer has an advocate? If it’s only about power, then it’s sadistic. There’s more purpose to it, I’m betting.
I do admit some people will try and kill themselves and some really go nuts but neither of those two options gets a confession out of Brad that an EU country will consider valid to deport Assange that I assume is the goal here.
How about an organized mass protest just outside the gates of the base? That should hopefully draw some press coverage. If Arianna H. could fund buses to get people to that Stuart/Colbert rally perhaps she or someone else could fund buses to take people from various parts of the country to protest outside the base?
Jane said it well. All of the above. Proximate: to prevent House’s usual visit…upsetting to isolated prisoner. Ultimate: a compliant Manning, willing to do, or say anything, to end the torture.
Thanks for posting the Amnesty letter. Very important.
Agreed but the plan is flawed he won’t be sane though for the show trial.
See @ 145
Would Scooter Libby, another leaker, have been given such support?
And, the point of Libby being convicted and Manning not is irrelevant to that question. If Manning didn’t leak to Wiki, he wouldn’t be getting any attention or support. It is because he did leak and people like that that he is getting so much support.
If he had not helped Wikileaks and was just some private being held, I doubt he would get even one blog post.
It is certain that Libby, having leaked only one name, would not get the same support of Manning, who likely leaked hundreds of names.
Main point being that the tears shed about Libby leaking a name had nothing to do with how bad it was to leak such identities. Only how fun it was to tweak Bush.
HT to Glenn Greenwald
David was very worried about his friend’s well being today. Thanks for noting that.
Bigger Fish…after the pretext, no matter what happens at show trial, the deed will be done.
Oh, I cannot wait for this to sink in.
Or just sink?
Like, which leak had to do with lying us into a war, and which to truth us out of another?
Bless you Pvt. Manning. Courage-you are not alone.
As I mentioned on an older thread (I’ll link instead of repeating), Jane should focus her attention on the Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus.
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/01/23/statement-of-events-bradley-mannings-primary-visitor-detained-at-quantico/#comment-137993
There’s no love lost, to be sure, between the AP and the blogging community, so I expect the AP story to focus on as narrow a set of facts as would make the story appear frivolous.
Let’s refocus here. Had Mr. House showed up in a taxi, the VA governor’s car or anything but Mr. Obama’s limousine with the Marine Corps Commandant in tow, he would have been refused entry to see Mr. Manning.
The trials associated with Jane’s license plate and what the Marines regard as “proof” of insurance are sideshows. That relates solely to a registered, officially approved, frequent and sometimes only visitor for Mr. Manning got to the brig, not why he was refused entry.
Lower the rhetorical heat. Had you sought more information, you might have come to the obvious conclusion that, depending on the specific charges made – which determine the laws the government claims to have been broken and which establish a court’s jurisdiction over the person and the subject matter – a military court martial might be exactly the appropriate and “regularly constituted court” that my post referred to.
Jane, I’m so sorry this had to happen to you, and I’m happy you’re now free again.
I’m not in the military, but recently over the last two years or so, I had occasion to go repeatedly onto a military base to perform volunteer duties. I was not able to get a sticker, because it was not sufficiently long-term. I was sometimes able to get monthly passes, or to get on an authorization list, but the passes expired, and I was unpredictably removed from from the list and had to be re-added. Every time I tried to get onto the base without a pass or an entry on the list – and sometimes, depending on who was on duty, even when I did have a pass or an entry on the list – they asked to see my license, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance. And I was there without any purpose or mission that the military could consider hostile at all – I was welcomed, and the person I was assisting had a military rank equivalent to colonel. Often they insisted on calling him first before letting me in.
Every base is different, and they can change the rules at any time. I endorse the comment above that you should cross every T and dot every I, because they won’t give you any break they don’t have to. The military just tends to be that way, even when they’re not out to get you. And in your case, it sounds very much as though they are out to get you, or at least to oppose your purpose for being there.
Perhaps your “pal” Lawrence O’Donnell would like to invite you on for tomorrow’s show?
I’m not a lawyer, but I hope you will be consulting one who is a specialist in constitutional issues. The ACLU may be more helpful even than Amnesty International. There is a constitutional issue of selective enforcement even for laws that would be valid if enforced impartially. Despite what I said above about routine requests for proof of insurance in my own case, it sounds as though they didn’t ask for yours until ordered to do so for this one occasion, for reasons that sound quite suspicious.
As has often been discussed in other contexts, what the Constitution actually says about your rights is one thing, and what our charming court system will actually enforce is another; but it would still be worth checking it out with a specialist attorney.
One would hope so, but Larry may fear he’ll be next after Keith Olbermann.
Jane Hamsher has been excellent at presenting the ramifications for citizens on a number of issues, especially during the health care “debate”. Glenn Greenwald has done numerous posts on the Bradley Manning situation and the ramifications for citizens, as have a number of other people such as Daniel Ellsberg. But, I’m with you, I think this issue needs to be hammered repeatedly with information from as many sources as possible, as often as possible and everyone should understand why this is important to us long term as citizens of the United States. I am really concerned that people younger than say 35 (who never dealt with or really thought much about their rights as citizens) are not comprehending the present and future ramifications to their rights as citizens from actions like those against Bradley Manning (among the numerous other atrocities taking place).
What I don’t understand is, “everyone but David has stopped coming to see Bradley”? I realize it is very intimidating, timely, etc. But, if you are Bradley Manning’s family or close friend, wouldn’t that be secondary to making sure he is “safe”? David House should be admired for what he is doing for humanity and citizens rights.
This certainly seems like material for Democracy Now and Amy Goodman. I hope she has some info in her box in the morning, if she has not already been alerted. A lot of people will hear/see her broadcast.
~~~EDITED IN MODERATION~~~
~~~FireDogLake does not countenance advocacy of violence as a solution to current political problems.
Such comments are subject to moderation.~~~
How does one get put on the visitor list?
Being halfway on the other side of the world, I can’t go, but would it not be nice if hundreds showed up to visit?
“, 2011 at 10:01 pm
240
How does one get put on the visitor list?”
That’s what I want to know. I suppose he only gets a certain timespan of ‘visit’ though. I’d like the guy to know we’re out here, trying to stop his torture. Can we write, will they let him read things?
Jane, note what Margaret said @ 112, because it suggests another approach to consider:
Is there any chance retired major general Antonio Taguba, who’s spoken out on prisoner abuse, or another high-ranking (though almost certainly retired) military officer might advocate for Manning or accompany you and David House on another visit?
Great work Jane. I think this story will get some traction for the conditions of Manning’s inCARceration.
The backdrop for these events is Obama’s war on whistleblowers and what he is so desperate to keep from coming out. The real fear is on their side of this thing. What is it they are working so hard to hide.
Thank you Jane for all your hard work and for keeping the focus on Bradley Manning. Please let us know what we can do to help.
Run along now, Scooter.
Here in my home town it is policy to TOW YOUR CAR if you DON’T HAVE PROOF OF INSURANCE, and that proof is the card issued by your agency, and only the card issued by your agency. So, if you don’t carry your card you’ll get gigged a minimum of $260 for the tow, plus impound fee to get your car back. Yes, it’s a racket, but there is a list of towed cars for lack of proof of insurance in the paper every day.
Yes. As Jane said above, the car being towed is not the issue. David House could have visited his friend Bradley Manning (who is currently as I type being tortured) whatever the deal with the car was, but he was not allowed by the ‘brass’ to do that. That’s the issue, nobody cares about the car, it’s the detaining, and the torture.
And I’m really sorry about that, Kelly. As I said in my retraction, I meant to tease sarcastically but should have used “wise ass” instead.
I thought of that idea, too, but suspect that would run afoul of regulations about not filming active military bases. Or at least that would be the pretext.
Richard Adams of the Guardian is managing to falsely report this incident. Benefit of the doubt for him? I wouldn’t give it him. You’d better have this out.
Jane –
I suspect that you have been under surveillance and they already knew your license tags were expired. That probably led them to believe that maybe your insurance was lapsed as well.
Also, how about the former US Attorney from New Mexico, the one Rove got canned? Isn’t he also a former JAG attorney? Might be interesing if he tried to get on Manning’s visitor’s list, went along next time, etc.
Here’s a supportive post by Juan Cole that compares Manning to Bouazizi, the young Tunisian whose self-immolation sparked the protests that led to the overthrowing of the Ben Ali dictatorship.
http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/bradley-manning-and-mohamed-bouazizi.html
And here are a couple of quotes, from the beginning and end of the piece which is very much worth reading in its entirety:
and,
Found this at the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2011/jan/24/bradley-manning-wikileaks-quantico-petition
Their comment section is full of morans. Good job, Old Blighty. Pip Pip, Cheerio! Check out this wank.
“I agree that the military was obviously giving them the runaround … but I honestly find FAR MORE fault with their friends showing up with dodgy plates on their car.”
Fucking idiot.
Is there a way to increase the number of people who are allowed to visit Bradley? Does he decide who his visitors are, or does the military decide? It seems odd that with so much concern on the part of influential people for his condition he is down to one visitor.
Fuck Bradley Manning. He took an oath, and BROKE it. I will say this however. Let him out of isolation. Let him walk around in general population. Be very careful what you wish for.
It’s not about Bradley Manning…it’s about our constitution, it’s about Habeas Corpus. It’s about deteriorating to the days of “The Oxbow Incident”. When Judgments instead of facts, emotions instead of reason, and vengeance instead of justice ran rampant in our country, killing the very ideals that MY higher power validated this country FOR!!! If you can’t see your lawyer, you can’t have a fair trial. If you can be treated inhumanely, you can be tortured. This is about me and you.
I saw this quote on another website…but I like it very much.
To say my fate is not tied to your fate is like saying, “Your end of the boat is sinking.”–Hugh Downs
Not about me and you. When you join the military, as I have, you lose some of your rights. Free speech. Gone. Treason. Death. Workers rights? Gone. Do not sign up if you can not take these things. It is a volunteer military, and you know what not to do. Number one thing not to do? Be a traitor. Try it on the battlefield. You have a good chance of seeing no one but the dude that fires the shot.
You can call your boss an idiot in the civilian world. Try that in the military. Then try to scream about your first amendment rights.
So when exactly was it that Manning was charged with (and then convicted of) treason?
And as a veteran myself, the treatment Manning is receiving is not the type of treatment that I swore an oath to uphold.
Patton notwithstanding, there still needs to be trail and conviction before the punishment
Let him walk around in general population. I am all for that.
Martin Luther King’s speech “Why I Am Opposed to the War in Vietnam” provides a moral compass which might prove helpful in times like these.
It can be found here in text form:
http://www.husseini.org/2007/01/martin-luther-king-jr-why-i-am.html
And here in audio form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80Bsw0UG-U
It’s too bad you’re not “for” the rule of law, due process or the Bill of Rights. Those are the things that
makemade this a great country.You still get a trial in the military. Period. it may not be fair, it may be exactly why I oppose the use of power and control. (absolute power corrupts absolutely) but the bottom line is that there ARE military tribunals and there ARE rules that follow the constitution.
the biggest difference between Obama and Bush, a large majority of Bush supporters were idiots, whereas, the Obama supporters have the information and where with all to do something significant about the abuses of Obama, but because the corporate media and the obama administration has them living in an overwhelming fear of the republicans, they are far more controlled by fear than Bush supporters ever were.
It’s a combination of who the military will approve, and who Bradley and his attorney want to see him. I frankly have never gotten into the weeds on it. My only role was playing hotel and transport.
Surely there is a middle way between putting him in with the general population, which no one is suggesting, and subjecting him to what appears to be, judging from his description of his confinement to House, close to some kind of sensory deprivation. The problem is that when polemicists on either side of a sensational case like Manning’s adopt the case and the person at the center of it as a cause, it’s hard to give much weight to what they say. They will naturally see what they want to see and present only their side of the argument. That’s the media — and the blogosphere, which, of course, includes me — in the 21st Century.
So if you are in the military and you see your president, commander and chief, mass murder innocent people, you would not report that. Must be nice to have no conscience. You can do whatever you want, with no guilt.
I understand. I guess reporters — even highly respected reporters from mainstream media like the New York Times or the New Yorker, say — wouldn’t stand a chance.
Agree with all you said. Your comment about the under 35 group not comprehending the seriousness of what is going on in this country is prescient – they are not and that plays right into the negative things going on in this country being allowed to continue. But sadly, I think that is in no small part because many of them are simply too occupied with trying to SURVIVE in this economy …I also personally feel that is by design. And speaking of by design – anyone contemplate the sad possibility – that Bradleys family & friends other than David, have been intimidated into … being very, very quiet? Personally I hate to go down that thinking path – but then there are a lot of those these days I do not WANT to go down, but have to anyway.
Sigh … sad, sad deal all around.
There is some irony in your attempt to defend Manning (who you allege was simply trying to provide honest discloure to the public) and your lack of honesty with your detainment . . . Expired tags and no insurance card, did you really think they would let you onto a military installation? Why not blog about the meaning of “hypocrisy” in your next post?
There is some irony in your attempt to defense Manning (who you allege was simply trying to provide honest discloure to the public) and your lack of honesty with your detainment . . . Expired tags and no insurance card, did you really think they would let you onto a military installation? Why not blog about the meaning of “hypocrisy” in your next post?
Morning light brings even more appreciation for how you are handling this Jane – it can’t become in anyway about you. Stay out of the weeds – put help push the lawnmower :-)?
That is not true. Code of military conduct covers this. Only lawful orders are to be obeyed. Do not equate military rights with the Bill of Rights. They are different. You will be informed of this BEFORE you join. While I may think Manning is a piece of shit, as I have been to combat and would not serve with a traitor, the human in me sees the concern and the watchdog attitude of Jane and the rest.
If only someone would shout “What about due process for Bradley!” instead of “You lie!” tomorrow night, but that would never happen, decorum at ALL costs, you know.
What a crazy dreamer I am.
Is it lawful to torture someone before they’ve been convicted of a crime?
We waterboard ourselves, so we do not consider that torture, per say. What do you think happens on the battlefield? War is hell. The faint need not apply. If we capture someone on the battlefield, and they have info that could directly hurt our brothers if we do not find out what it is, we will get the info to save our brothers.
In the least, have your ducks in order when dealing with the Big Bad Wolf, unless, of course, you were hoping to elicit the very outcome that manifested.
Come on, people, admit it. You’re happy this happened. It’s fuel for the fire. It’s validation. It feeds the perpetual reactionary convulsions…..the addiction. It makes you feel that all of this time you’re spending on the inter tubes has been worthwhile. It’s paying off. You’re part of something. You’re completing yourself.
False. It has been proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that torture is not a reliable method of obtaining “intelligence.” Therefore, one must conclude that the only reason it is done is to sadistically terrorize the Masses. At least be “brave” enough to admit you’re a sadist. At least the Nazis had the honesty to not pretend they were anything but what they were.
The faintcritical thinkers need not apply.Fixed that for you.
My question was a trick question to which the answer is “It’s NEVER lawful to torture anyone.” You’re an advocate of breaking laws – subverting the very thing which you swore to support and defend.
Furthermore, you don’t know if the guy is guilty of anything or not, but you’re advocating punishment. That’s the kind of shit many people have given their lives to prevent happening in THIS country.
But sadly, I think that is in no small part because many of them are simply too occupied with trying to SURVIVE in this economy
Yes, that is certainly part of it, but a much larger part is that they haven’t the capacity to GROK it. They have been dumbed down by an educational system with that purpose in mind, and they are distracted 24/7 with electronic media entertainment and/or idle trivial chatter.
I bet they all love Natural Born Killers, though.
I am not advocating anything. Let him walk in population. Ever been waterboarded? Many people say it saved lives. You choose to ignore. War is hell. The Taliban are truly evil people. Gays? Killed. Women? Brutalized. Any of our business.? Not really. After we defeated them, we should have left. Bin Laden should have been given over, and all this would be moot. If you think Clinton OR Obama are not doing these things overseas, you are wrong. While not a supporter of Bush, he did bring it to our shores at least. Clinton will look you in the eye and say Bush is bad, knowing he had the CIA doing it in other countries. Same for Obama. Pelosi knew, and APPROVED. Do not be lied to. I respect your opinion, but have your opinion directed at all the participants.
Critical thinking will get you and your buddies killed in battle. You react, and let your training take over.
The way out of the chaos of all the things you are conflating, is to live and maintain order by a rule of law: don’t become the thing you hate in order to try and destroy it.
I don’t disagree with your assessment of the Taliban. I don’t disagree with your accurate comparison of Clinton, Obama and the silver-spoon fed, oil company crony who was president for two unbelievable terms. But this issue is about someone being punished (are you denying that?) before he has even been able to defend himself.
That’s what we’re talking about here. If you want to hang him, at least know with a certain degree of certitude he did the thing he’s accused of. Maybe he’s a fall-guy for some bigger fuck-up.
The goal of the Quantico incident was to torture Manning and Intimidate House. Rinse and repeat. Just sayin’
The petition should be delivered to Obama. He is ultimately responsible for the military, a more visible person and more subject to public pressure.
Yes, that is certainly part of it, but a much larger part is that they haven’t the capacity to GROK it. They have been dumbed down by an educational system with that purpose in mind, and they are distracted 24/7 with electronic media entertainment and/or idle trivial chatter.
It makes you feel that all of this time you’re spending on the inter tubes has been worthwhile. It’s paying off. You’re part of something. You’re completing yourself.
I agree with the former – but have to ponder the latter: are you being sarcastic or serious? There are times in my frustration over what is happening in this country, that the only small solace I find is in the ability to connect online, even if just in reading similar thoughts – with people people who *get it* re what is going on in this country. For me that is not egotistic … it is a survival/sanity mechanism. And as for the dumbing down – amen. It is all part of the ever-thus bigger plan by them that would like to manipulate us into subservience – or bring the film Idiocracy to life. It has been going on for a LONG time and you would think we would get wise and fix that. No – it is only getting worse. And those that do try to break out of the cycle, get vilified. I do not have any answers, but I know sitting down, shutting up and not trying to find *some* way to counter the process – is not productive.
After we defeated them, we should have left.
I have an even better idea. How about not prop them up and put them in power, then wine them and dine them in order to get a pipeline built through “their” country. Of course, it didn’t help that the Taliban squashed Opium production. Think of all those heroin addicts, current and future, that suffered because of their callousness…after the U.S. gave them every chance to thrive.
Yes, the latter part was satire, but don’t forget, satire has a point. I agree with what you said, so obviously my point doesn’t apply to you. In otherwords, the shoe doesn’t fit, so don’t feel obliged to wear it. The people who should wear it, and there are some/many here, don’t even know what the metaphorical shoe is, let alone how to put it on, so I guess the comment was likened to spitting into a strong headwind.
I agree. If he is not allowed a lawyer, then he should be. Take him out of confinement? I agree. I would think his family should visit him. The military will never let people demagogue the issue. Seems all this attention was never given to FBI spies, who were subject to the same treatment by CIVILIAN authorities. This is the military, and things are different. I wonder how many people are supporting manning because he did something that hurt America, and to some, this is a good thing. To me an oath is an oath. Do not break that oath in the military, as bad things can happen.
Yes, the latter part was satire, but don’t forget, satire has a point. I agree with what you said, so obviously my point doesn’t apply to you. In otherwords, the shoe doesn’t fit, so don’t feel obliged to wear it. The people who should wear it, and there are some/many here, don’t even know what the metaphorical shoe is, let alone how to put it on, so I guess the comment was likened to spitting into a strong headwind.
LOL …for my own edification I am very careful about not making assumptions based on little words typed in boxes until I am well acquainted with the intelligent snark ability of them that is typing the little words. Your rating just went up :)
On paper, he’s responsible. In fact, he’s owned by the Military Industrial Complex….probably more deeply than anyone here would care to know or ever acknowledge. He will do as they say, because he’s one of them, and there is no question of doing anything other than playing his masquerading role of Commander-In-Thief.
You say do not become the thing you hate in order to destroy it. I will let this out. I am a dove at heart. Never been in a fistfight growing up. I just walked away. Not from fear, but from the fact I could not hit a human being in anger. I could not get angry enough. Not that I had to do it much, as I got along. Then you go to war and all that peace that is in your soul, is lost on the battlefield. I hate violence, and became a part of the most violence man could see. Coming home, trying to get that peace back in my soul has been a struggle. Your words hit home, as I became what I am not.
Do not break that oath in the military, as bad things can happen.
Isn’t part of the oath “to uphold and defend the Constitution?” Considering that, aren’t the soldiers who are detaining Manning without him being given due process breaking their oath, as well as those who gave the orders for it?
And don’t give me that crap that he’s subject to military law. Where in the Constitution does it talk about Military Law superseding Constitutional Law? Where in the Constitution does it mention Military Law at all? Where in the Constitution does it talk about a permanent standing army?
The world changes, and I can not imagine we should not have an air force. Where in the constitution does it approve of an air force, yet am glad we have one. You blame America for needing to protect itself. The constitution is for civilians. If you went to boot camp, and told your drill instructor how you felt all the time , nothing would get done. You know the UCMJ is gonna rule your life before you join. So do not join if you do not want to. Explain how Manning is not being given due process. He has a lawyer. What is he being denied? Convince me.
I hate to pile on, but there’s another trend I find especially worrying in the under 35 category.. A study has shown a 40% drop in empathy in college students. I think its partly related to online depersonalization, but mostly our winner take all society. Armed guards in schools, parents dissipating 401ks, media, class warfare, etc all.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/born-love/201005/shocker-empathy-dropped-40-in-college-students-2000
The constitution is for civilians.
….and the military is for the Plutocratic Oligarchy. It’s their private mercenary army paid for with the money of all those civilians who are subject to the Constitution, whereas the Plutocratic Oligarchy, and their Technocratic Minions to include the MIC, have ways around such restraints.
How about his right to a speedy trial? How about a right to confront his accusers or hear the charges against him?
“…against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
But Manning’s not an enemy, he’s one of their own, right? /s
Everything being piled on – contributes to this mess. That is – a chilling, but not surprising article. Seeing the connection all these threads in our society have in the unweaving of it, is helpful I think in finding ways to at least try and put it back together. Could be too late. The forces are adept these days at intimidating and silencing anyone who attempts to expose the ugly under-belly of what drives our world. Always have been I suppose. The technology only ultimately helps their cause I am beginning to realize more and more.
Youth growing up with the disconnect that realistic video games – with no consequences – bring … are indeed going to have a foundational disadvantage when it comes to dealing with reality. They are also going to be lazy about *understanding* it – I will just sit here and escape it all. Look I just blew something up; killed the enemy; created a world. What? You want me to read/listen/watch something related to my government/economy/real-life existence? Could you condense that please – dumb it down – spoon feed it to me quick so I can get back to my PS3 life please? There are exceptions of course, but not a far stretch to say there is a majority now that are eerily like that.
David House is a remarkable young man for having the courage he shows standing up for his friend. Remove any judgment on Bradley and just look at what David has/is doing. Jane is right to be supporting that as she is.
Jane is also right – that this is all very much not – about her.
You have got to know that if you leak secrets, the military is not going to be nice to you. Speedy trial. It took years to convict McVeigh, as it will the insane person in Arizona. His accusers are the USA. He confronts them at his trial.
jane, My suggestion… You need to get this out to the world. i have come to believe that people within this country will never stand up to this abuse, but the rest of the world needs to know who they are dealing with. This is such an exemplification of what our corporate corrupt government has become.
I believe legally you have to be charged and arraigned within 72 hours of your arrest, unless court holidays prevent this.
McVeigh did take years to convict, but not years to charge or arraign.
This man is being held without bail, without charges, without anything. He’s not even innocent until proven guilty because they have accused him of no crimes.
It’s flat out WRONG. It’s inhumane. It’s the same thing we’re doing to the people at Gitmo. These actions, by our vaunted Government, piss all over the Constitution that all of them pretend to hold so near and dear.
The fact that you assume these actions are legal tells me you need to read the Constitution.
Even McVeigh wasn’t punished before he went to trial.
If Bradley makes it to any kind of trial, he will be seriously messed up, if he isn’t already.
Is that the kind of message the military wants to broadcast? “We don’t need to prove you did anything to stir up your brains and ruin your life, we’ll do it just because we want to and we don’t have to answer to anyone. We run this country.”
Do they? Do they run this country? If they do, it ain’t America any more, it’s a police state.
The constitution does apply to terrorists. FDR did not afford it to the German or Japanese POW’s. Manning should have been read his charges. That I agree with. Without bail is not against the constitution.
How is manning being punished, unlike McVeigh. ? If he has not been read his charges, ok. How else?
Come on man, this is not the kind of law our country stands for. “We don’t torture,” was, and is still, a lie.
To say that seven months of solitary is not punishment is more lies. Man up and just admit it, the kid is being punished BEFORE he’s had a day in court.
Like I said, I support him being allowed into the general population. McVeigh was put into solitary, and I do not recall many people, if anyone, wanting that changed.
Whatever the fuck the military or contitutional law says, torture is illegal. We all know the man is being tortured to break him to get him to lie and say he and Assange had a conspiracy, rather than Manning being a whistleblower. People can BAAAW all they want about the military owning Manning, but that is a separate issue to what’s going on here. He’s being tortured by the US government to commit perjury so they can get Assange and Wikileaks. That is not legal, and evil.
He didn’t have to – he applied the Geneva Conventions to them
Was McVeigh allowed to have any reading material?
Was McVeigh required to stay awake all day?
Was McVeigh allowed to do any exercising in his cell?
Was McVeigh awakened at night if his face was not visible?
Was McVeigh provided a pillow and blankets?
County jail in my county does not allow you to sleep in the day. A blanket should be provided, no pillow is not new. Reading material? yep. Some. Exercise in cell should be allowed. Is he on suicide watch? That would explain the face issue. FDR had many people shot. Terrorists are not eligible for the Geneva convention. They could actually be shot as spies if we went by that, Germans caught out of uniform were executed. I do not know if Manning is being tortured. What does his lawyer say.?
Manning a whistleblower? Fuck that. He broke an oath. If I sell secrets to China, I am not labeled a whistleblower.
You’re not getting it steve. Manning considered himself a whistleblower, Wikileaks is intentionally set up as a whistleblowing apparatus. What laws Manning broke if any and his penalty will be decided at his trial. We can argue and vent about what Manning is but it’s the laws and the proof that make the determination. That is why we say we are a country of laws. It’s not the issue anyway, what is happening is that Manning is being renditioned here in the US for political purposes. He is being tortured to give false testimony against Assange. That is a crime.
He didn’t sell anything, but nice try with the false equivalence.
He is not being allowed to sleep, read, or exercise, they ask him to respond every five minutes when he tries to sleep. That’s torture, steve.
He didn’t sell anything. And there is no reason to feel he did anything wrong, except the US Government says he did. All of this based on the accusations of Adrian Lamo.
As for secrets, these were cables available to about 3 million USG employees via an intranet link, IIRC. Not exactly huge secrets.
In the military, a secret is a secret and you take an oath to protect them. The question is how does a lowly private download so much? My debit card stops after a while, just to protect me. You would think our secrets would have the same policy. Maybe after the first hundred thousand secrets, a bell would go off. Seems to me he had help, but I am just assuming.
Again, these were all cables that were available for viewing at an access level held by 3 MILLION people. Obviously not very secret. Not just the military had access to these things. People at the EPA, the FCC, the DEA, the SSA, the Fed, essentially every federal office, had access to these documents.
I’ll repeat myself. Not very secret.
So it is ok to give away little secrets, just not the big one’s?
Is it OK to make things secret that aren’t really, just because they’re embarrassing or illegal?
No. But you still do not release them. You take an oath.
Is Manning any more guilty than the Marines that are torturing him?
You take an oath to protect your country. If that means revealing lies and criminal activity that are being wrongfully concealed, you’re duty bound TO expose them.
Many thanks to Greg Mitchell and The Nation for publishing links to this incident this morning. Let’s hope the rest of the MSM covers it too.
See: http://www.thenation.com/blog/157971/wikileaks-news-views-blog-monday-day-58
I’m not saying it’s okay. I’m saying what he did was miniscule. He did not divulge any information that any can prove harmed operations, endangered anyone, divulged actionable intelligence, etc. It was a victimless crime, unless you count the politicians he embarassed. So they’re torturing him for 7 months in response.
That’s how we do it in Uh’Merikuh!
You gotta prove the torture first. I am sure your version of torture may be different than mine. To me, taking out one’s nails would be torture.
It is distressing to hear people sworn to uphold the constitution say that the protected rights are only for some people. In what way is this orientation consonant with their obligation? I fear that in revolutionary America, they would be the enemy, if only through their craven complacency.
Regards,
proclus
http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
How about not letting a person sleep for more than 5 minutes at a time for 7 months?
From the article I linked earlier:
I.e. Beauty sleep./s
Please don’t insult your own image here with the impression you can’t differentiate between mental and physical torture.
They should allow sleep for at least six hours at a time. Who is making that allegation?
From the pock-marked roads of Kabul
To the backrooms of Karachi
We will fight to secure sweet contracts
For the likes of Dyncorp and CACI
First to enable corporate thiefdom
And, what the heck is Bacha Bazi?
We’re now confused about why we signed up
To be United States Marines
Sometimes I take the low road.
Manning’s lawyer, actually. Not to mention the shrink evaluating him. Also, as a vet myself, I can personally attest that the regs say a lot of things that those at the top casually disregard. The simple fact here is that Manning is being denied even basic rights afforded to him under UCMJ, all for putting egg on the faces of those in power. Any attempt at justification for his current treatment, even in the context of his supposed crimes, quickly degenerates into a naked apology for the right of authority to do what it wants, when it wants, without accountability. And arguments like yours only allow for that. We, as a culture, have bought into it.
I dunno if that’s the America YOU want to stand up for, but it sure as hell isn’t mine.
Isn’t that a little simplistic? Aren’t both required, depending on the situation, or a change in the situation?
As I recall, one thing that was credited with helping the US finally secure Omaha Beach on D-Day was that in the midst of chaos, with units fractured and decimated and mixed up with each other, small groups of GI’s took the initiative, adjusted tactics and objectives on the fly, and found a way to move forward.
Same with airborne drops. Sticks scattered to the wind all over Normandy, small units cobbled together, decided on the best objective that they could achieve given their location and numbers, and stitched together an effective beachhead that approximated what the generals had envisoned.
U.S. Department of Defense: Enlistment/Reenlistment Document: Armed Forces of the United States (Form DD-4: October 2007)
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd0004.pdf
H. Confirmation of Enlistment or Reenlistment
22a. In a Regular Component of the Armed Forces:
I, __________, do solemnly swear (or affirm)
that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and
that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
So help me God.
You seem to place a lot of importance on the word “oath”, especially the oath in the U.S. enlistment contract, in contrast to a marriage oath, or an oath of office, or other oath.
As can be seen, the Constitution of the United States is clearly differentiated from the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and they are not coterminous. When there are conflicts between the Constitution and the UCMJ, which one gets priority? And which jurist or other legal expert is consulted to *interpret* each of these complex documents?
From Mr. Coombs, Manning’s attorney.
Hey, I got hit with a colossal inconvenience when my alternator died yesterday and I had to pay $275 to get it fixed. But when I got Jane’s letter just now, “Unable to Deliver” and I saw David House’s video about his and Jane’s detention, I realized it was time to put my money where my big mouth was and give $25.
The last time FDL got this immersed in an issue was the Plame outing, the story that made FDL the powerhouse it is today. I was all over the Manning story before it became somewhat fashionable and was sickened by celebrities flocking to Assange’s aid while forgetting all about Manning. Manning’s the one who risked everything to get us this information, not Assange. And Wikileaks still has not given Manning more than a fraction of the money they promised him for his defense fund.
That leaves us and I hope many have given for this poor kid.
jurassicpork wrote:
“I was all over the Manning story before it became somewhat fashionable and was sickened by celebrities flocking to Assange’s aid while forgetting all about Manning. Manning’s [allegedly] the one who risked everything to get us this information, not Assange.”
-extra word in bold mine.
The government accuses Manning of this, but don’t forget that Manning is innocent until the government proves he is guilty in a court of law (or until the government forces Manning to confess while it holds him in solitary).
Jane did a great service to us all by documenting the name of the MP who stated he was ordered to treat Jane and David this way. Any news about where this MP is today? Has anyone asked him to clarify his comment to Jane and David? Personally I doubt he is “available” now that he placed blame where it belongs, on his higher ups. Any follow ups in the news today?
..or at least I thought I read the name of the MP talking with Jane about it. Cannot find it in this thread. Maybe on twitter? or did I misread something?
Listen folks, don’t let your liberal, anti-war leanings get in the way of commonsense. This is not revelation of the Mia Lia massacre. Manning had grandiose, narcissistic thoughts of his own self-importance and revealed somewhat damaging classified information. . . He’ll have years of his life in confinement to debate the merits of his actions. His attorney’s 138 complaint is just posturing for you sheep already riding the anti-military bandwagon. Jane, get your car properly registered so when you do complain about being harassed it is not because you were in violation of the law.
Violation of the law. LOL
Tell us bluenote2, is it hard to get the taste of Shinola off the tongue, or is it better to just get used to it and leave it on for the next pair of jackboots that come along?