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How many times have you heard Democrats claim that “this moment” will be the magical opportunity when they convince the American people to like the new health care law? The newest “opportunity” to win the public over is apparently the House Republicans’ push for repeal. From the Hill:
“Our biggest failure was that we passed a fairly moderate bill, but we allowed it to be painted as this crazy liberal monstrosity,” said Democratic pollster Stefan Hankin. “So we completely lost the moderation, and I think that’s what we have the opportunity to get back in this debate.”
[...]
Over the weekend, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Democrats welcome the repeal debate for that very reason. During an appearance on “Meet the Press,” Schumer said the debate allows members of his party “a second chance to make a first impression.”
I have honestly lost count of the number of times Democrats publicly predicted how, after “this event,” they would somehow make their proposal popular.
After the August 2009 town halls, there was talk of changing the momentum. After big stories about huge rate hikes from private insurance companies, that was going to be the opportunity to make the case. The bipartisan summit was going to be when Democrats would take control of the debate. After the passage of the bill, I was told the popularity would magically rise. With the first new provisions, like keeping 26-year-olds on their parents’ plans and the high-risk pools kicked in, Democrats claimed, “now” the American people would see what a good law it was and start liking it.
I think this is probably about the sixth “opportunity” Democrats have claimed to sell the public on health care reform, and I suspect it will be about as successful as the past five.
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Oh, yeah, baby, give me some more of that “moderation.”
Silly
rabbitdonkey: tricks are for kids.Another cereal reference which describes the attitude is, Mikey, he’ll eat anything.
Can’t wait for them to explain how the 34 million and rising unemployed/under employed are going to be able to do that mandate!
Yes, there are some GOOD things in the new law, but they completely flipped the jar and left the same MED/Pharma/Ins corps in for a monopolistic grab.
Why can’t we all have the same insurance they do?
The Health Care Bill is a Turd.
It failed it’s one biggest opportunity, Making Health Care Affordable.
The rest, all 2,000 pages? Window dressing.
It’s similar to buying a car. You want to seat the family and get 35 mpg.
All they have for sale is SUVs that consume 15 mpg. All of the doodads, stripes, alloy wheels, fat, thin or low tires, fuzzy dice, audio system that will break windows at 50 paces, leather interior, automatic blow dryers in the front seats, don’t conceal the basic fact: It’s going to cost a fortune in gas.
Every time one goes to the gas station, one is reminded of the basic failing.
As with health care.
Bill Press was pimping the health care law this morning on his radio show – again. It’s becoming a full-time job for insider tools like Press.
Because, ya’know the bill is just marvelous. The problem is the Dems just didn’t get their message out.
Fuckin’ Democrats couldn’t sell water to a man dying of thirst.
Let alone pass a decent health care bill.
Especially when the water is passed by the insurance companies, after being passed by the hospital conglomerates, after being evacuated by the medical profession.
What few good elements in the bill got buried by a ton of shit and they knew it.
If the democratic party would have passed a real health care reform bill, unlike this one, that is a give away to the insurance companies, big pharma, etc , they wouldn’t be in this stupid position of “selling” it.
I seem to remember it as, “He won’t eat it, he hates everything”.
Has anyone seen a recent poll re health care bill? I haven’t, but I keep reading that a huge number of people do not want it repealed. Is there a close to even split between the yes and no?
Nor would they have lost the House and damn near the Senate.
As long as our Congress and President have to rely on corporate money to get re-elected, nothing will change. We are a Fascist country. It just hasn’t been broadcast on the news yet.
I heard this morning that Obama plans on raising $1B for the 2012 campaign. Gee, I wonder where all that dust’s gonna come from. He certainly isn’t gettin’ any of mine.
It may be less a matter of money than votes, but I wonder what Obama plans to use to replace all those twentysomethings who won’t be turning out to vote a second time.
I didn’t like the healthcare bill the first time around and I still don’t like it after being warmed up 6 times. Indiana has a high risk pool. Two years ago a policy would’ve cost me $12,000. per year. Unaffordable then, and even less affordable now after at least 2 rate hikes. But, no, the shill in the White House wouldn’t let us have a public option which the majority of people wanted. He deserves to lose the White House. Aside from Palin, I don’t see a helluva lot of difference.
Our small company’s health premiums are rising 14.7% for 2011.
We get “free” annual physical now (a savings of $30/year on the prior co-pay) thanks to “Health Care Reform”, but our premiums are going up $800/year.
Things are getting worse not better.
the only real thing they have to do to the health bill to get more support from moderates and democrats would be to remove the mandate
that or of course provide a public option/medicare buy in
Or the seniors who’ll be voting for an independent anything.
The GOP is playing smart politics here! :)
The only issue in the USA is JOBS, and fixing the economy, but the GOP has no ideas or plans to fix the JOB problem or economy, so they start their KABUKI games attacking the Obama/Bob Dole/ Mitt Romney/ health care bill.
the GOP needs to make the phony democrats in the senate and some of the phony dems in the house fight and defend a GOP Health Care Bill.
progressives need to get video footage of the 20 dems senators up for election in 2012, defending a GOP health care bill.
Democrats will try daily over the next couple of years to avoid and ignore the 100,000 pound toxic elephant in the room name INDIVIDUAL MANDATE, at the end of the day the TOXIC ELEPHANT name INDIVIDUAL MANDATE will end their careers.
Every Democrat Senator up for re-election in 2012, must be primaried!!! No USA Democratic Senator can defeat a real Dem candidate that says he/she will kill the Individual Mandate in 2012.
Also OBAMA will be so TOXIC come 2012, any Democratic Senator that connects himself or herself to OBAMA will lose in a primary.
Obama poor political skills can be used to help progressives, put real democrats in the Senate come 2012.
My health care premiums have increased 100% as well as many co-pays have l increased
That’s sick (no pun intended).
nor mine! No money, no Vote for him or any incumbants.
You can if you get a job with the same benefits package.
Why is it we don’t have to “sell” anybody on Medicare? The model was staring them in the face, and they gave us this “for profit” legislative hairball.
Unbelievable.
And it won’t be, since the media are pretty high up in the corporate government, and they don’t want the word to get around.
The only place that has that package is the Congress. Not even federal workers have the same deal as they do.
they won’t sell it this time either. BUT, as people come to see that repeal means they will lose this or that, its appeal, rather than repeal, will rise. At least, so I think. Over time even the thugs may come to try to amend it rather than repeal it. There is little doubt we need some form of health care that covers nearly everyone. That will be seen, in time, bad as the first try was. However, if O loses in 2012, all bets are off.
You can’t sell ‘change’ to conservatives and/or Republicans. The electorate screaming for a repeal of HCR are not and will not listen to any arguments in its favor. Because they have an inordinate fear of change of any kind, and because HCR means change, they’ll easily boil it down to, “I’ll lose my health insurance if HCR stays in place.”
Then I guess you answered your own question. There’s only 535 positions available, so we can’t all have the same insurance they do.
I’m actually wishing the Republicans some success. Let’s put the individual mandate front and center in the press again. That legislative travesty should be a permanent exhibit of the culture of corruption infecting the Democratic Party.
I am benefitting from the PCIP part of the new healthcare bill. I would be willing to go without insurance again if they would put together a better bill in the future. As it stands, this PCIP piece of the ACA is no day at the beach. Doctors are free to charge me 500.00 for an office visit that the insurance will only pay 50.00 for. Until we have price controls, patients will still be liable for the balance due, and bankruptcy. I don’t believe that the mandate is fair unless they offer us a public option or single payer healthcare. I also suspect that the millions who will be offered Medicaid because of their low income, will be offered rationed care. I suspect that this will be true because I have seen Medicaid in action and it is not comprehensive care at this point.
This year I will be receiving a substantial refund on the insurance premiums I pay on behlf of my employees as a consequence of the health care bill.
Many other small business owners will as well. For most it will come as a pleasant surprise.
With all the republicans he wins over by gutting SS.
What is really sad about the Democrats’ failure to sell health care is that the consultants and pollsters who were behind the previous failed attempts are still around and collecting fat checks from the party.
FL is going to try to turn Medicaid here over to the HMOs. It’s been a disaster in the pilot program counties but the Rethugs just can’t wait to get those dollars into private coffers.
but…but…he let them all stay on their parents’ health care insurance until they’re 26! What else could they possibly want? /s
A turd floating around in a bowl with a whole bunch of others is still a turd. Sorry for the graphic.
It was not a health care bill. It was a health insurance bill using private for profit health insurers to pay for health care for the millions without insurance. People criticize Medicare as subject to fraud and inefficiency, but the annual expense of fraud and inefficiency doesn’t come close to the amount insurers take out of the system in profit. The present so-called health care bill isn’t a beginning; isn’t something to build on. It is another taxpayer ripoff.
That is a nice benefit.
At the rate the Dems and Obama are going, Republicans could run Sarah Palin in 2012 and win. I have never in my life seen the governing party so lost at sea. The only thing they seem to have their sites on are corporate interests. Hence the health “insurance” reform disguised as healthcare. Truly sad. Next up, Obama plans more deregulation. Because more of the same that caused the economic meltdown, is just what the doctor ordered. These people are either batshit crazy, or in an entire different realm.
OMG I have never heard such a bunch of winers in my life. Just because you can’t have everything you want. You fools are the reason we are dealing with a republican house now. Not so much Obama. Keep it up and maybe we will end up with Palin.
He’s going after his slice of the citizens united pie. By deregulating industry, he thinks they are going to throw money at him.
I wouldn’t bank on that – MOST of us undertsand that while defintely imperfect, compared to Republicans Obama is effin’ Noam Chomsky. We all saw the difference between Obama and the Repub standard bearer Palin last week – and while We all wish that Obama took a different tact on the WOT, my gut says half of Americans would welcome tougher sanctions vs privacy – and the other half of America just doesn’t care. Also – when you have the right wing calling Obama far left – just who do YOU think the youngins are gonna vote for?
Hi SD! That’s sure how it looks from here. Privatization! I have only tragic healthcare stories to relate re: family abused/neglected through HIP in NY. But I am willing to fight for better healthcare as a group if only we had a political opportunity to do that. HMOs wiped out Mental Health in NYS.
That answer is so arrogant and unhelpful that it makes me want to puke.
Don’t underplay that – it’s extraordinarily popular. Walker may think the democrats are wrong, wrong, wrong – but – as polling indicates, the HCR is becoming less toxic each polling cycle…
I am so tired of hearing progressives make excuses for the health insurance bill because it has SOME good things in it. None of the good can outweigh the fact that this bill is a massive giveaway to a predatory industry, leaving both consumers AND taxpayers to foot the bill for whatever the industry decides to charge.
Still, the Repubs should not repeal the legislation until they have something to replace it – health insurance and healthcare are broken in the US.
It’s time to seriously consider whether the Democratic Party is an obstacle to progress and whether its disappearance would lead to better outcomes in the long run.
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/judge_rules_health-insurance_m.html
I know Obama has appealed this but that was the last thing I heard. Has anyone heard anything newer?
Ridiculous too. Staffers get that insurance. Families get it, many other federal employees do as well. It goes way, WAY beyond the 535 members of the Congress.
I saw that piece earlier.
I’d be willing to bet that he spends the next 2 years doing all sorts of shit that will appeal to conservative voters and nothing for anybody else. Oh, wait, he did that the last 2 years. Never mind.
My understanding, though, is for that to happen your parent/s still have to claim you as a dependent on their taxes. Which disqualifies you from certain FASFA benefits. My younger sister can’t get USG grants for school through FASFA because my mom claimed her as a dependent to keep her insured.
I think you have something there. The problem with insurance is, you pay a bunch of money into the system and then when the hospital wants to charge $50 for an asprin or $500 a day for a room, we think the insurance company is paying, so what do we care. Screw them.
I worry the same would be true with a public option. We pay taxes and the government pays the medical, what do we care. Screw them.
To the GOP, health care repeal is about scoring political points. For about 40,000 Americans, it is literally life and death, because that’s how many citizens will die under the GOP’s plan. The ultimate death panel.
Policy doesn’t win elections, money does. That’s the operating principle both parties govern by. They don’t care what you think of their policies. Hell, most Americans don’t even understand them. It’s the attack ads, stupid.
Fracturing the center/left coalition is not where wisdom lies.
Indiana Gov. Daniels tried privataizing Medicaid paperwork to IBM. This turned out to be a total clusterfuck with delays due to lost paperwork, unanswered questions, and no on knowing what the hell they were doing. Gov. Daniels then cancelled IBM’s contract which led to IBM filing a $10 million lawsuit against Indiana. And this man is being discussed as presidential material.
Where does wisdom lie?
Hoyer says “We failed to sell health care reform”. No Steny what happened was people didn’t want to buy that piece of shit. It wasn’t through lack of trying on your part.
Yep. ALL federal employees have more plans available to them than you can shake a stick at. Congresscritters opt for the gold plated plans as do doctors at VA because they can afford them. The feds have an open season each year where you can join any of the offered plans or change plans. Quite a list of plans and insurers available when I worked at VA.
Yep! That means doubling down on more of the same. No votes for Vichy Dems!
“batshit crazy or in an entire different realm”
No, they’re fucking corrupt to the core.
Vichy Dems. I like that.
Yep. Heck I opted for the gold policy when I was a federal employee because it was just me. I even had kitty cat insurance.
I think it’s very appropriate these days but I stole it from Kelly.
It lies with the left continuing to build bridges with the center on progressive legislation.
This means progress is going to be slow and half-assed, but it beats the alternative.
It’s truly morally repugnant for me to vote again for Barack Obama. I just can’t bring myself to vote for a man who has done more to destroy American civil liberties than any other American president. Barack Obama has truly run the worst Department Of Justice in US history. And that’s saying a lot given how awful the Alberto Gonzales DOJ was.
Well, then my first answer was right.
You can if you get a job with the same benefits package.
As a forty year systems analyst I can tell you that anything requiring 2,000 pages to explain is not going to work worth a shit. Guaranteed.
Bridges to where? The alternative you refer to is an illusion coming from you. It has nothing to do with reality.
Especially when the companies being “regulated” have proven over and over how adept they are at finding and exploiting loopholes. Having 2,000 pages of explanation in that case is begging for trouble or intentionally allowing the exploitation. It’s one or the other.
The Democrats are too corrupt to take the political opportunity that the GOP is offering, to repeal the unpopular individual mandate, and to ruin the health care insurers financially by requiring they accept all with preexisting conditions. Pathetic.
Do you know what GS-3s -4s or -5s make? These are the folks who actually do the work and they can’t afford the majority of the plans. A plan that these folks can afford is really bare bones, no dental, no mental health, hell, they’re lucky if it covers eye exams and glasses. I’d say your answer is more flippant than anything else.
It will successfully obfuscate the turds within the system that will come back to smell once the thing is operational.
You mean the alternative is two wars? Gitmo remaining open indefinitely? Doubling down on illegal wiretapping? A shitty, corporate centered “trickle
down” economy? Rampant foreclosure? Intractable joblessness? You’re right. What a fucking nightmare that would be!That’s how conservatives think though. Everything is a privilege reserved for those who can afford it. Even food, clean water, health care, everything.
It is no illusion. It is how progressive ideas have informed legislation over ther past three-quarters of a century. With over 70 Democratic Senators out of 96 in the 74th Congress, FDR had to go the slow and half-assed route to get Social Security passed. Not to mention throwing African Americans under the bus.
Most simply put: there aren’t enough liberals to form a governing majority.
As such, to inform legislation we have to form coalitions with left leaning moderates to get anything done.
Yeah, the old “if you’d only applied yourself a little harder” blah blah blah horseshit.
Yes, it would be a worse nightmare. That is exactly what I mean.
Very few liberals actually run for office any more. The greedy neoliberals run them off with promising voters the sun and moon and deliver a cartload of horseshit instead.
I ain’t buying it. I’m unemployed and have been for two years and on the verge of homelessness. How is that going to get worse for me? I’ll wait. Since the same thing we’ve been doing for decades hasn’t worked, I think it’s time to try something new.
Not that we don’t have that now, of course. JHFC on a crutch.
Cue the troll who likes to tell you to get a job and it will all get better in 4…3…2…
Health care as we see it in HCR is a racket. The “market” doesn’t work. Example: those of you who wear glasses just have a look at your frames (designer or not). What do you think they are truly worth? What do they cost to manufacture and what should they sell for with a reasonable profit? Hundreds of dollars? I don’t think so.
Where do you think they come from (even the European designer frames)?
http://www.eyeglasses.com/blog/page.cfm/glasses/glasses-frame-quality
Yep. I especially get revolted when people who inherited large sums of money spew that happy horseshit. Not to imply that alan has, just one of my pet peeves.
Back to work.
Namaste
Yep. It’s inevitable. I’m such a lazy bitch….
oldgold man it has got to be hard being you.
daily you have to defend the impossible
me thinks any Dem senator that does not promote the idea of getting rid of the individual mandate is going to lose big time in 2012.
oldgold, Democrats can’t hide from the 100,000 pound toxic gorilla in the room name the individual mandate.
the idea of forcing americans to buy health care insurance from crooked and corupt health insurance companies is not going to win you to many votes.
the good news is that OBAMA/Bob Dole Health Care bill is going to open the door for real democrats who love other real democrats like FDR, JFK, LBJ, to come back to DC in 2012.
tell david axelrod we need a lot of laughs!!! he needs to hurry up with his get Obama ie”CLARENCE THOMAS” re-elected campaign of 2012.
Obama has a snow ball chance in hell of winning in 2012, everyone in DC knows this to be true.
oldgold, get plenty of sleep and rest, you are going to need it, if you plan to defend OBAMA and the phony Dems.
Well, Russ Feingold is gone. I guess Dennis Kucinich grumbles occasionally. Bernie Sanders makes a few symbolic gestures now and again and then rolls over. Raul Grijalva mutters a couple platitudes and rolls over. Anthony Weiner is just an actor who plays a progressive on TV, but in reality waits for whatever table scraps he can get from from his hero Chuck Schumer. Yeah, those are our progressive champions.
There are no politicians in Congress leading the progressive charge. No one is advocating progressive policy. FDR? C’mon, we’re not even close to that kind of zeitgeist in this country. And going along with the current Dems certainly isn’t doing anything to change that.
Just got new glasses in Oct. The frames, $60, are made in China, says so right on ‘em. Prolly cost $5 max.
Yep, I don’t even have the stomach to listen to the righteous indignation and hand wringing anymore. It’s all part if the dance and that’s it.
Gee, whiz.
1. Change is easy.
2. Corporations don’t control the mass media.
3. Democrats can talk to the public any time they want.
4. Corporatism isn’t really happening in America.
And the Easter Bunny is bringing me my slippers…….
oldgold, the only thing that protect the elites and the so call neo-liberals from the wrath of the LEFT is the corporate MSM.
it is very simple, the elites have been playing the game, we control what people hear and see, this helps the elites control what people do. well them good ole days are coming to an end rapidly.
the masses want answers, and others beside the corporate MSM will give the masses the answers they need.
OBAMA lack of policial skills will help this process, snow ball!
oldgold, you must deal with this simple fact! LIBERAL HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT! it is your kind that failed.
I can’t resist.
That, in a nutshell, describes the Democratic Party. Its progressives have been purged, silenced, or marginalized, and those who call themselves progressives are liable to change sides under pressure.
I’ve come to the conclusion that any time or money spent on a party or a candidate–as opposed to a cause–is wasted.
One of my favorites.
Any progressive that shows a hint of a spine is purged. Sanders has it right and progressives need to run as independents so they aren’t beholden to the party.
As Jake Barnes said in A Sun Also Rises, “Yes, isn’t it pretty to think so.”
That markup is economic rent, and it is supposed to be taxed at a high rate because it is economically irrelevant. But the libertarian capitalists have turned classical economics on its head, shifting the tax burden to labor and that is why the economy is on the skids.
I am a liberal!
D.C. Democrats are stupid or liars. They say the problem is that the reason so many oppose the Health Care Bill is because Democrats didn’t message well enough for these folk to realize how MODERATE the bill is. If they use this opportunity to really get the message out, then everyone will realize it is moderate and more will like it.
But the facts of those who oppose the bill contradict this approach. In the latest AP poll, done with GFK, they found that 79% of those polled oppose the current bill.
BUT only 26% want it repealed entirely, only 10% want it made more moderate and 43% want it made more liberal. In other words 54% of those who oppose the bill oppose it because it’s TOO MODERATE.
I suspect that the 26% who want it repealed, 33% of those who oppose the bill, are hard core conservative Republicans who will NEVER budge from their view.
If that’s the case, then we are left with 53% who oppose the bill but would support it if it were modified. That means 43/53, 81 freaking percent, of the public that opposes the bill but is open to modification want it made MORE LIBERAL.
So how do D.C. Dems respond to 81% wanting it more Liberal and 19% wanting it more moderate? Well, they decide to message more effectively how moderate it is.
They are either massively stupid, or they are lying.
If they are stupid they just can’t figure out how to do 8th grade reading of a poll and do simple arithmetic. Or they are too stupid to realize that what Republicans tell them is going on is not necessarily what is going on and they should check the facts.
I don’t think they are stupid.
I know you’re a liberal and I respect your views. In fact, I held your views myself for a long time, but I just don’t believe that’s the way any longer.
Got an inbox full of spam wanting me to call Congress and tell them to do this or that. Trouble is that’s all bullshit too. There is always a link to make a donation. Fuckers.
I appologise to you and Margaret (doing the tag team on me).
You’re right about my answer being more flippant than anything else.
It was only to point out how foolish the question was.
For the same reason you can’t get the $175,000 yearly salary, and the office in DC, etc., etc., etc.
I know flight attendants who fly for 10% of published fares, but I don’t cry that everyone can’t get the same benefits.
And where do those donations go? They pay the Democratic pollsters, consultants, and media people who have turned the party into a pile of rotting gelatinous goo.
Always selling BS.
Obama’s Bogus Explanation For Troubles: Too Much Regulation
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/18/obamas-bogus-explanation-regulation_n_810262.html
Just after hearing on NPR how to rollout of R strategy (and therefor Obama and the corporate D’s). Then of course right on time the message from Obama:
- all that has to do with losing jobs must be stopped.
- what is the one and only thing they will claim stops jobs – gov in the way of biz, especially taxes and regulation.
Can Obama be called out on the national stage on his lies once more please?
Here are some quotes – try not to throw up in your mouth
…
In an op-ed published in Tuesday’s Wall Street Journal, the president decries how regulations have sometimes “gotten out of balance, placing unreasonable burdens on business — burdens that have stifled innovation and have had a chilling effect on growth and jobs.”
…
Yet you double down on the flippancy. Flying to and fro isn’t a necessity for life like health care is. I wish I had time to work on you but I don’t. I see glimmers of hope for you but I’m out of time. I’ll be going dark soon.
Yeah AllBarck Obummer – you really figured it out. Nice priorities.
Good work on helping people with jobs and their houses and future.
At least they told you you would be a one-termer. They forgot to tell you you would be the worst of all time.
The only thing I’m really sure of is where they don’t come from: ME! :)
Well, it is possible you are correct. Look, I have long recognized certitude is only a fool’s friend.
I don’t relish the prospect of going through another Republican presidency, but I’ve lived through it enough to know it’s not the end of the world. I also know that when Democrats replace Republican presidents they really don’t do much of anything different. In fact, they often do more harm in some areas. The current Democrat president is leading the charge against Social Security. A Republican administration would never be able to get away with that.
So I think it’s worth it to hold Barack Obama accountable for the incredible number of lies he told to get into office and not vote for him. Obviously, I think the Left should focus on running somebody else, say, an Elizabeth Warren, but I’m willing to simply withold voting for BO in order to make the point that accountablity is more important than party loyalty.
Had to fix that quote.
Democrats have become mealy-mouthed sellouts.
I agree. Sometimes the political climate calls for different actions. Who knows what things will look like in a couple years and what the right decision will be?
Non-flip answer, we can’t afford it.
“Our biggest failure was that we passed a fairly moderate bill”
Moderate, my ass. It was a monumentally corrupt piece of corporate welfare.
We can afford it. But we can’t afford to pay 1000% for an MRI to a hospital and to insurers when an MRI’s true cost is 98.00 per use (one use of the machine and the tech’s time). Your profit making paradigm is going-down. No one wants to put up with your selfishness any longer. We cannot afford YOU.
I’m curious about this: won’t people making under around 90k get help in both the premium and the deductible when HCR kicks in in 2014? Pretty sure I saw that on a kaiser web site. If so that may be a starting point to work on this thing.
While living in France my doctor mentioned that he was astounded at US charges for mri’s. He shook his head and said, “You know, it’s the same machine we use! Does a capital investment need to be paid for every month in the US?”
I think these are the kinds of things we have to work on. The cost of health care has to come down, as well as made universal, and it makes not a whit if the government pays it or Wellpoint.
Yeah we know everyone at FDL hates the HCR but no one here seems to have the slightest idea about how to proceed in the real world, as opposed to the world as we wish it was.
Believers in the “market” are forever going on about economies of scale and product efficiencies. How long have x-ray machines been around? Are they better, cheaper than ever? Wife just had two x-rays of her lower back due to muscle spasm and the need to rule out disk involvement. Snap, snap. Ten minutes. Cost, $1.600. This is a lab. Not a hospital that could wail about hundreds of illegals having babies for free.
How about a Medicare buy-in for everyone who wants it in the “real world.”
oldgold review the list below, and tell us all why you are liberal and not like OBAMA the pathetic con man that lied his way to the WH.
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
13 Guantanomo still open for business
14.Patriot Act renewed
15. renditions continue
16. Bernanke reappointed
17. Americans targeted for assassination
18 Obama is all for sending more USA jobs off shore
19 Obama is for tax cuts for the RICH!
20. Obama and the TSA porno Scandal
21 Obama freezes federal wages for 2 years
22. OBAMA TARP Funds for Legal Services for Foreclosure Victims Blocked By Treasury
23. Obama lowers estate tax for the rich
24. Obama tax bill of 2010 GUTS Social Security
25. Obama wants WikiLeaks Assange charged with espionage.
26 Obama Fake Net Neutrality Caves to AT&T,Comcast
Old Gold are you still a Liberal?
Old Gold, like I said above get plently of sleep, you are going to need it! Defending Obama is going take all your energy. :)
More good news on less regulation – if we have monopolies it will be easier to regulate them!
Comcast/NBC Merger Approved By FCC
Incrementalism, which you avow, on its merits used to be acceptable. We are beyond that now. Too many unemployed. Too many without healthcare. Too much pain. You think you are being reasonable and you are asking people who have been betrayed over and over again to be reasonable. Therein lies your error. We are beyond all that kind of talk now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-silver/comcastrophy-comcastnbc-m_b_810380.html
The merger further squeezes what’s left of independent, diverse voices from the television dial, laying waste to President Barack Obama’s promise to reign in runaway media consolidation. As a candidate in June 2008, he said:
“I strongly favor diversity of ownership of outlets and protection against the excessive concentration of power in the hands of any one corporation, interest or small group. I strongly believe that all citizens should be able to receive information from the broadest range of sources.”
Where’s that Barack Obama today? He’s on the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal announcing an executive order that will “make sure we avoid excessive, inconsistent and redundant regulation,” focusing on rules that “stifle job creation and make our economy less competitive.” Given the president’s long list of massive compromises to corporate lobbyists during his first two years, today’s gesture to Wall Street is galling.
From Canais on that threaad, could not say it better w/ example:
I watched deregulation gut the radio industry after Bill Clinton deregulated it in 1996 on the promise of more jobs, more diversity, and more competition. None of those things happened, of course. What happened was a few corporations like Clear Channel, Cumulus, and Citadel ran up enormous debt burdens buying up every radio station in sight, then proceeded to fire most of the staffs and automate everything. Those that were left saw increased responsibilities and work loads coupled with wage freezes for pretty much the last decade and a half. The only people that made more money were the Dickie’s and the Mays’s and the other folks that run the corporations. All this is incontestably true, yet the folks in Washington who approve such mergers and consolidation continue to buy the same snake oil time after time. Consolidation does not lower prices, it does not foster more diversity, it does not stimulate more competition, and it does not create jobs. It does the opposite of those things It makes me want to beat my head against the wall.
It’s pretty clear when Obummer says one thing,
we can be sure he will do the exact opposite.
That was outstanding! Thanks!
Democrats never seem to learn. It does not matter how many chances they have, you can’t sell a turkey. Especially one that has been sitting out in the street for a few months without refrigeration.
At some point, you have to realize that it’s the product and not the messenger.
This is like Coke saying, “With one more chance, we could have made the new Coke the public favorite.”
Uh, no.
That’s an impressive list. but ummm I will quibble with no 17. If that is who I think it is: fuck him!!
A health care bill written by the Heritage Foundation and the MHI itself is a crazy liberal monstrosity. What a bunch of Orwellian garbage perpetuated on the weakest minds. No one is fooled. And the current help is nothing but a program that will demand that all resources are tender in the event that someone is extended health care, thus shifting what little of the wealth of this country is in the hands of the lower classes.
The GOP’s very on policies have been used. Mandatory health care on a product with no cost controls…Give me a break, it doesn’t get any more right wing that. That’s a right wingers wet dream. Don’t throw me in that brier patch, whatever you do .
Individual mandate is not the problem per se in ObamaCare. The problem, as I understand it, is the individual mandate forces every adult to buy inferior- quality profit-jacking commercial health insurance policies, without even price controls on premiums which can be raised willy nilly.
GOP is fond of denouncing individual mandate but keep in mind an individual mandate would be a cornerstone of single payer, as seen in the CA and PA single payer legislation (check ‘em out and promote them; also explore SP plans developing in other states). In order for a single payer system to work, there has to be “everybody in” (individual mandate) to create the largest possible cash pool and largest possible risk pool to help keep costs down.
Is ObamaCare an elaborate kickback scheme to health insurance co’s, hospitals, and Big Pharma in exchange for heavy campaign donations?
Question: Who will pay for your refund of premiums? The health insurance company on its own or will the health insurance company be subsidized by federal taxpayer dollars to make that refund of premiums?
Beginning to agree. We’ll go through unmitigated hell, maybe not Palin in WH but a series of similar culture-of-victimhood tinfoilers getting their signals from God and the Apocalypse (etc) disguised as Tea Party revelers (etc) with corporate high-riders running amok in an altogether quasi-militaristic fake-patriotic fascist stew. It might take several decades to begin coming back to humanness but I’m getting the feeling it won’t really be much of a choice. Obama is already giving away so much of the store, the Democrats are not Dems anymore anyway. I have this discussion all the time with my adult family members: Should we let the devil emerge and face him/her/them and hope the public will eventually resist and rebel? As I said, we’ve probably already lost the choice — maybe when Obama was elected.