Small government activist Grover Norquist is calling for Republicans to begin a serious debate on the Afghanistan war. Not surprisingly, Norquist was focusing on the cost of financing our seemingly endless military commitment to the country. From Dan Froomkin:
Norquist said the question for those who want to reduce government spending is this: “If you don’t take $10 billion out of the occupation of Afghanistan, you’re going to take it out where?”
He said the debate about the war in Afghanistan should include discussion “about the vast expenditures of cash, the vast expenditures of other people lives, and the opportunity cost” of money and effort that could be expended elsewhere.
“It seems to me that it has been more expensive than not. And it has made America weaker than otherwise,” he said.
Finally having at least a small segment of high-profile so-called “fiscal conservatives” to question the wisdom of spending $119 billion (PDF) this year in Afghanistan caused me to reach for the latest CBO analysis on our war spending.
Last year, the CBO published only two documents about the cost of the war in Afghanistan that were not a direct analysis of defense authorization bill. One is from the very beginning of the year; it estimated the cost of what was supposed to be a temporary increase of troops in Afghanistan: “In total, deploying an additional 30,000 personnel to Afghanistan would probably cost about $36 billion over the four-year period of 2010 through 2013, CBO estimates.”
The other was about the future cost of providing health care through the Department of Veterans Affairs and what the burden would be due to veterans of Overseas Contingency Operations (OCO).
The CBO concludes that OCO veterans’ care will cost the government roughly $45-54 billion from 2010-2020. About half of that cost will be due to their deployments as part of the wars (PDF):
CBO estimates that just over one-half of service members who deployed to the first Gulf War would have used VA’s health care services even if they had not served in theater but that those users would have made 10 percent fewer ambulatory visits, on average, through 2004 had they not deployed. Assuming that similar patterns hold true for OCO enrollees, CBO estimates that of the $46 billion in projected costs over the 2002–2020 period for OCO veterans under Scenario 1, about $25 billion can be specifically attributed to their deployments.
This budget window significantly hides the government’s long-term cost of providing health care since these veteran are currently very young and relatively healthy.
OCO veterans are likely to be younger than the overall enrollee population, and healthier, because they have not developed age-related conditions, such as diabetes and heart conditions. Nearly 70 percent of OCO veterans are under the age of 45, and all but 1 percent of the rest are under the age of 60. By contrast, about 15 percent of enrollees in the overall VA population are under the age of 45, 40 percent are 45 to 64 years of age, and 45 percent are 65 or older.
Outside this ten-year window, the CBO expects, “the cost of treating OCO veterans to rise as they age. ” We will see a significant long-term burden caring for the veterans of this conflict as they get older and much more expensive to care for.
Despite Washington entering a period of extreme deficit hysteria, there has been shockingly little official analysis of both the present and long-term cost of the extremely expensive war in Afghanistan. Maybe, while the Republican party quickly moves away from its promise to cut $100 billion annually in non-defense discretionary spending, just maybe they will start thinking about cutting this $119 billion in defense discretionary spending.




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Seems neither political party wants to discuss the real costs of Afghanistan. Wonder why. Obviously a majority want it to stop, yet from Washington? Mostly crickets.
It is amazing opposition to the Afghan war is based on cost. Morality in our so-called Christian nation, is irrelevant. Even if the attack on the World Trade Center was planned in the Afghan hinterlands, that did not give us the right to invade that nation anymore than Timothy McVeigh learning how to build a fertilizer bomb in the Michigan hinterlands gave the federal government the right to invade Michigan. It is difficult to see how we can impose sanity on madness of this magnitude.
Washington runs on money.
Everything runs on money. Maybe that’s the problem.
My wize ole sheep herder buddy told me, “Time to get the Flock out of there”. Smile :-)
Washington runs on “other people’s money”.
Jon, I’m so glad you posted this. I’ve been looking at this issue, especially since his quotes came out yesterday. I assume he still keeps up his weekly Wednesday meetings nationwide. I guess with skype or some other venue to work with the GOP in each state to get his marching orders out.
In anycase, several of us here were trying to figure out the motive, the real motive. Is it to back Israel in attack on Lebanon, or to focus on North Korea and take a hit from China? Either way, I don’t think the MIC is ready to be cut off, so to speak.
MIC has successfully bought pols. So move along, nothing to see here.
BTW, military has HUGE list of equipment that needs to be replaced owing to wearing out during wars. So it’s not humans (who in the event will be denied treatment, would be my guess), but worn out equipment that will keep the MIC going for the foreseeable future.
Norquist will have about as much success on this one as he’s had on shrinking the USG previously.
A sicko opens fire on a crowd of people killing 6 and wounding 15 and the country’s conscience is focused on the tragedy of it all and the question that effervesces is “what is wrong with our political discourse”.
Meanwhile, our neo-lib/con run government has a platoon of gum-chewing video-gamers remotely dropping bombs and doing that kind of damage EVERY DAY in a country with a population 1/10 of ours. The gamers go home to their suppers and justify the collateral damage by telling themselves it’s the COST of freedom. The nutbag in Arizona is probably telling himself the same thing.
The question in Afghanistan is “What is the cost?” Yeah Grover and Nobel winner Obomba, let’s talk about cost.
The Cost of War(s) broken down by state, county and municipality.
McClatchy has articles about the money being wasted in Afghanistan and the poor planning. Also another article noted that the head of the agency contractor watchdog is resigning and will leave post next month. This is because Congress has been on him about the poor performance and tons of money with no accomplishments. Well, the Dem congress members have. Don’t count on Lindsey Graham to be on that committee, nor John McCain.
I’ll take opposition to war from anyone. It’s time both the left and the right quit the name-calling and petty squabbling and fight those in Washington. These slimy politicians continue to fund the Obama/Bush wars even while Obama tells us we must cut Social Security and other domestic spending. Here’s a headline at Anitwar.com this morning:
“Biden in Iraq to Look at Extending War Past 2011″
Who exactly is he representing? It sure as hell isn’t the American people.
The war in Viet Nam was halted largely because of its cost. If we can stop the wars I really don’t give a rat’s ass what rationale is used.
Congressional investors and CEO’s of the MIC is who he is representing. You are right, it’s not the American people.
I think there is less here than meets the eye.
Grovequist wants street cred as a fiscal conservative so he can purse his true love,
slashing away at Social Security.
Agreed, hence my invitation to talk about cost, not only in dollars, but in lives and in the overall mental health of the world.
Actually, he wants to meet his goals. He wants to cut government down to almost nothing by 2015. He wants to be able to drag it to the bathroom and drown it in the tub.
you are correct.
the MSM keeps the american people in la la land.
the USA kills more people a day than any other nation on the planet.
the MSM has a way of not telling this fact.
since Americans love reality TV, there should be show on everday, showing americans how effectively our military kills people. (this may help people understand why so many people hate the USA)
Americans need to wake up, over the last 20 years we have killed a lot of people for various reasons, none having to do with the idea of a nation threatening or having the military capacity to attack the USA home land.
What no one wants to talk about, but needs to be discussed, is how is the USA going to deal with un-employed hard core soldiers?
What happen saturday was done by a mentally disturb person, imagine a cold blooded highly train USA soldier with a beef against the USA govt..
A lot of people in the military know this is going to be a huge problem.
Un-employed cold blooded soldiers are not good for any nation.
I’m with you on that one: any means to the END of Warz, Inc is a good means in my book. Yeah, it’s kinda “lame” that it’s about money, but I’ll take. Frankly the US public was sold a load of horse sh*t about this war to begin with and it’s only gotten sh*ttier and sh*ttier.
Agree with a prior comment that, while it’s appropriate to mourn the losses in Tucson, no one appears to give a sh*t about the daily/hourly losses in Afghanistan, which are far more horrific. What’s wrong with that picture????
You make some good points, as usual. Most of the US public is complete asleep at the wheel as far as WAR, Inc is concerned, along with all the subsidiary issues involved.
I agree!
the left and right do agree on a lot these days
the left and the right hate these wars!
I am like you, who is BIDEN speaking for? Goldman Sachs, JP MORGAN, MICROSOFT, EXXON, he is not speaking for the american people
Arizona is in our faces, it is a part of us. We feel the horror and the pain here. MSM makes sure we don’t see the loss in Afghanistan and that is why the govMint got it’s drawers in a knot over Wikileaks!
Yeah, violence, blood, trajedy in your face in AZ ellicits “It’s HORRIBLE!”
While we’re perpetrating the same shit (and that would be under the command of the guy who gave an excellent speech at the ceremony/rally yesterday) ….
not so much.
If you are not familiar with Mr. Norquist and have the time you may like to read this:
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_norquist.html
Please be kind and remember the reasons he tried to squash the hoopla over the Muslum Community center in NY while his fellow republicans were ranting is because his wife is a Muslum.
I’m always amazed the same fringe right wing elements who appeal to the “second amendment remedies” crowd also for the most part seem to support almost limitless military and CIA spending.
One would think the best defense against a dictatorial character who happens to become president using force against the American people is to shrink the army to such a size that it literally won’t be an option.
Maybethat’s the problem.Okay, one of the problems.
How wealthy is Norquist & where did his money come from?
He is a silver spoon baby, born into the Polaroid wealth.
Lord don’t they help themselves…
CCR still rings
As the US military shrinks, corporate armies grow. Armies under the control of people motivated solely by money presents a significant danger to the vast majority of Americans.
Here is his Jan. 3rd. debate. It’s an hour long.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/ChairD
Exactly! Not to mention they hide that money under contracted uses.
Surely you jest? Today’s contractor army is SO MUCH more cost-efficient./s
this is more about my enemy; enemy; is my friend
those in congress call the left and right coming together the un-holy alliance for a reason.
all we are saying if norquist wants the wars to end, and we want them to end, who cares what his reason may be, just end the wars
And…that army is not prevented from firing on US soil or any military code of conduct.
Yes! Yes, yes, yes. All we are Saying….give Peace a chance!
I think the major flaw in your reasoning is the plural part: wars. The guy would probably be first in line at the next bomb Iran rally.
CCR, Beatles, and many more.
Capitol Hill Democrats could–and should–have made this argument many years. Predictably, they didn’t; their consultants told them that if they did, they’d be condemned as “weak on national security.”
DING!
Their corporate consultants. Yep.
DING x2 !
The Eliminationists who fully infiltrated the government positions and systematically pushed out any progressives since 2000 are following triage policies toward anyone who can’t pay-to-play in their system, aren’t already employed in the government or corporate structures presently or aren’t of immediate usefulness otherwise (e.g. in the military or numerous other secret projects) to their plans. The lower caste is “free to die now” which won’t take long depending upon their lack of resources (including the current program to restrict ‘Net access going on) as too many people in our country don’t have enough work to support themselves, shelter, enough food, medical care, or education and they are forced to plead for their lives to our government officials and their better-off countrymen. Even the previously sacrosanct support-your-troops-spending went out the window with Desert Storm and Rumsfeld’s full implementation of “war on the cheap.” A case-in-point of the class differential and its dysfunction is how the State of California, State of Arizona and the UK central government cooperated in going to extraordinary lengths and use of public moneys to administer the death penalty (see the ACLU of No. Cal. video on their findings here ; hattip john in sacramento ). Yes it is that bad and the deaths of the populace will not be televised anymore than the death of the soldiers who die in our foreign campaigns. If we Progressives don’t have a “seat at the table,” it’s not hard to figure out our prospects in this totalitarian society.
this is another PANDORA BOX of hell, some idiot opened.
does anyone know what laws and rules these corporate armies of destruction follow? NO
this is going end in disaster!
for example, black water attacks main land china, who is china going to attack? the USA?
Black Water is killing Iraqis, Taliban daily, in the name of the USA, but not playing by USA military rules or laws, does the Taliban, Pakistan radicals attack black water or the USA? they will attack the USA
I’m glad to see that at least a segment of conservatives are talking about the Afghani war elephant in the budget room.
I wonder, do the CBO figures take into account that a good number of our returning vets are damaged in ways that will prevent them from contributing to our economy?
you are probably right,
where we have common ground we play ball, that is all I am saying.
remember if the right really wants to cut the deficit, you can’t ignore the 1.3 trillion dollar military budget, if they do ignore this, we should all conclude that there is not budget problem.
you can’t cut social security, without cutting F-16 development
Costa Rica has no army and as far as I can tell no blackwater style private mercenary squads
I don’t know man, Obomba’s a miracle worker. Just look at what he’s accomplished so far.
I have been asking this question for a while. Why are we in Afghanistan? I thought that when I voted for Mr Obama he was going to deescalate this conflict. Yet we continue to increase troop numbers in this theatre. Clearly, following the strategic policies of the Bush Administration will only cost more lives and money. It’s time to bite the bullet and acknowledge the folly of this effort. We were deceived about WMDs in Iraq. Now with the revelations from Wikileaks showing Afghanistan’s problem with corruption. We should question if our position in Afghanistan is really tenable. Do we want to spend more lives and money for an ill fraught plan to fight terrorism.
Biden tells the Afghans{Karzai} that we will stay there as long as we are needed past 2014. Obama tells the American people 2011. Who is lying?
China having a new stealth bomber makes the defense cuts harder.
Norquist realizes the time is ripe for this angle of attack, but no one should be fooled by it. The anti-tax stance takes is just the what the traitor Grover Norquist uses to gain influence within the Republican Party. Norquist’s prominence has long made the Repulican Party’s National Defensce claims a total joke. Norquist has long been a front man and gofer boy for heavy duty terrorists from the Middle East. This is how Norquist really made his money.
During the George W. Bush era, when you heard about a Middle Eastern visitors to the White House who later were arrested or put watch lists, they were almost always associates of Grover Norquist. This doesn’t get mentioned as much as it should because Norquist spreads a lot of hush money around. One of the few that has is Frank Gaffney. I don’t often agree with Gaffney, but his research in Norquist’s terrorist associations is well researched and certainly probably isn’t winning him any popularity contests within the Republican Party. One such article (and there are several) is http://canaryinthecoalmine.typepad.com/my-blog/2011/01/important-article-from-2007-by-frank-gaffney-khan-job.html.
What is wrong with anti tax? Starve the beast, that is the feds.
Norquist is so stupid-
How stupid is he workingclass?
Norquist is so stupid it took him this long to figure out that empire is expensive.
rim shot!
IT MUST be a LOT of money. He obviously edited his entry on Wikipedia to make it appear that his father was no more than a V.P. there. Maybe so, but I’d guess it takes an enormous amount of money to amass (from the sidelines) the far right Republican influence he has.
I have ask myself this question for a while. Why are we in Afghanistan? When I voted for Mr Obama I thought he was going to deescalate this conflict. Yet we keep sending more troops. Clearly. following the Bush Administrations strategic policies will result in wasting more lives and money. We were deceived about WMDs in Iraq and now with the revelations from Wikileaks concerning the wide spread corruption in Afghanistan. We should question if our position in Afghanistan is tenable. Do we want to waste more live and money on an ill fraught plan to fight terrorism.
Jon, here are the logical steps out of the abyss…
1. Enact Fair Elections Now Act
2. FCC mandate that all political advertising is a public service and therefore free
3. Permanently ban anyone who has served in federal office from becoming a lobbyist
4. Enact The Bipartisan Tax Fairness and Simplification Act of 2010 – Eliminate $1 trillion in tax givaways. Change the top tax bracket to 70% to help pay down deficit
5. Break up the big banks and strengthen the Volker Rule
6. End ALL wars and lower the bloated defense budget
7. Reduce health care costs by adding the public option. Allow Medicare to purchase drugs. Allow drug re-importation.
8. National Infrastructure Bank – Run by engineers, not politicians. Find $2 trillion over 10 years to create jobs now and increase productivity later. Put millions back to work. Fund with a millionaire’s tax
9. Federal government make massive investments in R & D to create quality jobs long term in areas like biotechnology, alternative energy, IT, materials, science, alternative-fuel automobiles, and clean technology. Fund with a bank tax
10. Government pass a law requiring the seating of public and worker representatives on corporate boards to help stem the tide of jobs being shipped overseas.
11. Raise educational standards through a national core curriculum. Advocate the firing of the bottom 10% of teachers nationwide and replace them with good teachers. Make higher education free to families that can’t afford it to encourage upward mobility in society
Actually I think Obama was fairly explicit during the campaign that escalation in Afghanistan was not only possible but was probable.
Norquist shames Democrats by honestly and in straightforward manner questioning the efficacy of throwing so much money at war without asking any of the most obvious questions in terms of dollars and cents not to mention pointing out the immorality of the killing of all the people in foreign lands we are doing and whether that really makes sense for US taxpayers. Democrats understand these issues very well but are such cowards don’t dare to even broach the subject. So, credit where credit is due: kudos to Norquist (whom I otherwise loathe) and shame on the Demcratic polotroons in Congress who don’t have the balls to stand up and be counted on these questions.
Who is lying? Both! We will leave when it suits us regardless of what Afghans want. The impact on them, of our presence there one way or the other means absolutely nothing to anyone in DC in either party. And Obama is lying and he knows it. The best he’ll do is what was done in Iraq. They’ll falsely claim the war is over but “just in case” we’ll leave a huge army in country for all eternity.
Yes I seem to remember this quote but I think this is a step in the wrong direction. I suppose I was hoping that Mr. Obama wasn’t going to follow the Bush administrations blunders. It seems that we will be fighting the “War on Terrorism” there for a while. Not good.