Late last night Wired editor Evan Hansen responded to Glenn Greenwald’s request for Wired to release the full Lamo-Manning chat logs with a pretty broad personal attack Glenn. It was heavy on melodrama, light on details. Not exactly an Edward R. Murrow moment.
In his post, Hansen says:
The bottom line is that Wired.com did not have anything to do with Manning’s arrest. We discovered it and reported it: faithfully, factually and with nuanced appreciation of the ethical issues involved.
Ironically, those ethics are now being pilloried, presumably because they have proven inconvenient for critics intent on discrediting Lamo.
Note the “discrediting Lamo” link: it goes to the FDL page that logs key articles and interviews regarding Bradley Manning, Adrian Lamo and Wikileaks. The articles are presented in a sortable table so that anyone can search them, or simply read through them, to see how Adrian Lamo contradicts himself over and over again regarding the contents of the chat logs.
In his own words.
Over the past few days, FDL readers have worked hard to transcribe every available recorded interview with Adrian Lamo, and their work has made it manifestly clear that Lamo consistently makes contradictory claims for what appears in the chat logs. Further, Lamo has made statements that contradict Wired’s own reporting on the matter.
I’m proud of the citizen journalism here at FDL that was used by Glenn Greenwald to meticulously document many of the inconsistencies in the Wired narrative, and which will no doubt continue to be used as the Lamo-Manning story evolves over time. I hope at the very least it has put an end to outlets like the New York Times using Lamo as a source for front page stories without going back and looking at what Lamo has said (or hasn’t said) in the past, because there is no excuse now.
Here are the chat logs, here are the previous Lamo interviews, and here is a timeline of events. Any journalist writing on the subject can easily make themselves familiar with the history of what has been said and written, and they should be responsible for making sure that anything they produce is contextualized within that.
I’m not sure why Hansen thinks transcribing interviews and logging articles qualifies as “discrediting Lamo.” Lamo’s own words and actions are responsible for any indictment being made in the press, and Wired’s decision to sit on the chat logs makes them an active participant in whatever claims Lamo makes about their contents.
If Hansen doesn’t think the credibility of the key source for Wired’s reporting on this story can hold up when simply compared to his own words, I’d say they’ve got bigger problems than Glenn Greenwald.
Greenwald responds to Wired here and here. Both are well worth reading.





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I’d like to answer that.
It’s very much like exposing a couple thousand documents of the US government’s actions: holding it all up for the world to see, reveals its ugliness.
Means a lot, coming from Greenwald. Gotta lurve Glennzilla!
Let’s not miss this well-deserved pat on the back to Marcy Wheeler, FDL and everyone here from Glenn Greenwald (emphasis added):
Something stinks. And it’s not the litter box.
It is soooo refreshing to read in depth analysis from Greenwald and FDL pages about Lamo and associates. I wish the self proclaimed “journalist”/celebrities could learn some lessons on reporting from the above mentioned sources. I love it.
Jane,
Youtube has just posted the entire RT Big Picture show with Thom Hartmann, with you talking about this.
Wired has so totally discredited themselves but that has a tendency to happen when you sell your principles for thirty pieces of silver.
graf 7 “Here at the chat logs” could be “Here are the chat logs ….”
~~ ModNote – fixed, ty ~~
Not being a techie, I’m not that familiar with Wired Magazine beyond having heard of it in a generic sense. But it sounds like Mr. Hansen is serving as an enabler for the government’s efforts to crush Wikileaks and Bradley Manning, and that he feels a bit of flop sweat when publically called on it.
Not to denigrate you or Marcy or anyone else, but I didn’t think someone could have a bigger problem than Glenzilla. Just sayin…
Oh thanks ET, I was gonna ask them for that.
Harry Potter dweeb alert!!
I’m not really a big fan of the Potter series; I haven’t read any of the books. But I have however seen all the movies that have been released on DVD. Why do I bring this up?
Because what this new citizen journalism, the internet in general, but FDL and Glenn Greenwald in particular bring to mind is The Room of Requirement:
Similar to the Room of Reqirement, just as establishment media organizations like CNN, Time, The Washington Post, Wired apparently, and most other MSM entities have proven to be unable, or unwilling, to fulfill their principle function as government watchdogs, and are indeed actively helping the US government propagandize it’s citizens, along comes the internet and it’s shining stars like Greenwald and the entire crew at FDL, among others, when they are needed most.
Thank you Glenn Greenwald, Marcy Wheeler, Jane Hamsher and all the other ordinary Americans and true patriots who have been there when your country needs you so desperately.
Thank you, thank you, thank you…
God, Jane, this was a huuuuge project! No wonder it was so quiet on the threads these past few days. I thought everyone was stuck at an airport or home with the grandparents for the holidaze. I feel guilty not offering to help, but I still don’t get how I missed the original call for help on Monday or the Tuesday afternoon status report.
Anyway, good for you Firepups! Great work. Y’all might get some kind of journalism credit if yer not careful.
Jane. What FDL and Glenn are doing here deserves a Pulitzer Prize. You are assembling FACTS that run counter to the herd mentality. Just like the run-up to the Iraq invasion: the mob wants a hanging. And facts are not important. The lamestreammedia goes along. Spouting idiocies, like Assange is a traitor. Morons. He’s not even a US citizen.
Why doesn’t Manning’s lawyers file a writ of habeus (or something) to get their client out of the brig? In their statements, his lawyer(s) seem unreasonably compliant to military authority.
Does a US citizen relinquish their constitutional rights when they enlist in the Army? And do a tour of duty in a freakin war zone? Where are the motions, the writs, etc.?
Thanks Jane for keeping us uptodate! Glen has wired cornered and they know it. We will see who blinks!! and it sure won’t be Glen
What does anyone think about this WikiLeaks obituary? What’s the story on Cryptome?
Personally, I think the better question would be, “What’s the story FROM Cryptome?”
Have they exposed anything yet, other than their own envy and opportunistic motives?
To be sure, they haven’t done anything yet. But all of this is completely new to me, so I’m wondering if anyone knows anything about the background.
That is the line of thought that Francis Townsend used during the CNN discussion with Glenzilla that is the topic of a couple diaries here at the lake.
I’m no technophile and I’m clueless about most publications relating to electronic technologies, but that quote raises my suspicions about Cryptome’s independence.
Yes. They consent to by governed by the laws of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Thanks for the link to the RT Big Picture video clip on YouTube.
The Thom Hartmann interview with Jane [identified as founder of FireDogLake.com] begins at 23:05 and ends at 28:18.
Does a U.S. military serviceperson relinquish his or her Miranda rights? If not, then the Manning-Lamo Chat Logs may be inadmissible in a court martial or trial of Army Pfc. Bradley Manning.
It is said that there is the right way, the wrong way, and the military way. The U.S. military does everything by the book, so to speak. Yet I have not been able to find any U.S. military order explicitly pertaining to Suicide Watch or Prevention of Injury (POI) Watch. What I have found indicates that Pfc. Manning might have been improperly treated in his initial psychological evaluation.
A written military order for the Quantico Confinement Facility states that Pfc. Manning had the right to an evaluation by a psychiatrist of his own choosing, but within a limited time (ten days if I recall correctly) and totally at his own expense including any travel expenses. According to this same written military order, Pfc. Manning also had the right to contact the U.S. Navy Inspector General if he believed that his psychological evaluation was punitive. A link to the written order (ten pages in Adobe PDF) is posted at my FDL diary, along with selected excerpts from the order that seem most relevant.
I am grateful to Jane Hamsher and David House for traveling to Quantico and David’s visit personally with Pfc. Bradley Manning in Quantico Confinement Facility (Brig), and their reports on his condition.
I think Wired still owes an explanation of the extent of its cooperation with the government. Certainly they were contacted, as Paulsen was involved with Lamo before during and after this was going down. That would be routine during an investigation.
Glenn is so sound in his words:
(my bold)
Cryptome’s been around for a while, since 1996, I think. Other than the fact that there might be an element of jealousy because of all the attention Wikileaks is getting, there is something to the argument :
As the world is focusing on the embassy cable material, people who would normally be likely to leak material might think twice about it due to all this attention, and the fact that his/her leak might be put in a long queue.
At the same time, the fact that the information has been spread out over many locations/mirrors seems to me a good thing, as it is all less vulnerable. At it means that there is a growing interest and consciousness that there needs to be less secrecy from power centers, not just for crypto-computer geeks.
Young seems to think that Assange and Domscheidt-Berg are “sellouts”. That all seems pretty juvenile to me. It doesn’t keep his operation from functioning, so who cares?
“Does a US citizen relinquish their constitutional rights when they enlist in the Army?”
For the most part, yes, sad to say.
Sorry to post again, I didn’t want to imply that Cryptome is not important, though. It has been a precursor in many ways, and has hosted many interesting documents, and has the same general philosophy that WL supports, namely openness.
It’s interesting to see that they have been accused of some of the same things as Assange/WL : “putting lives at risk”, an “invitation to terrorists”, etc. In short, an element that can’t be completely controlled, which is what bothers the powers that be.
The youtube link referenced by Manning in the May 23 chat no longer works, but that video is still available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLhFXkvugLM
Here is something to add to the list of Lamo’s claims not supported by the published logs. This is a direct quote from Lamo in the NYT article from 12/16/10:
Replying to my own comment, here is a Poulsen tweet responding to the physical drop off claim: “That’s not in the logs, and as far as I know Lamo didn’t claim it was.”
Mad props and huge kudos to Jane Hamsher, Firedog Lake and the Firepups.
From Jay Rosen’s twitter feed:
If only those who glibly toss the “slur” firebagger would contribute even as it’s a given they couldn’t replicate the effort.
Well done folks. And, thank you.
Yea Truth, and with god’s good graces (if she has any) Justice.
Big news.
” Kevin and Evan both independently verified that in the unpublished portions of the chat logs between Adrian Lamo and Bradly Manning there is no further reference to private FTP servers, and no further discussion about the relationship between Manning and Assange.
That’s kind of a big deal, because the published portions of the logs do not support or back up the statements Adrian Lamo seems to have been making. And that would mean that his claims are based solely on opinion, not based on evidence in the chat logs.”
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/29/lamomanning-wikileak.html
you write “Why doesn’t Manning’s lawyers file a writ of habeus (or something) to get their client out of the brig? In their statements, his lawyer(s) seem unreasonably compliant to military authority.”
People in the military are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice and so there’s no such thing as a writ of Habeas Corpus to get them out of confinement. There’s no bail, period, and they can be held in confinement until the end of their enlistment; in Manning’s case, that’s October 2011. Unless they’ve been found guilty of a crime, they can’t be subjected to punitive conditions while in confinement before their court martial.
The US Marine Corps are not known for compassion or loving kindness, and especially not towards brig inmates who may have been termed “traitors”, like Manning has. I expect that his guards know exactly who he is, and I’ll bet they know he’s gay, too, which doesn’t help things, especially with USMC MPs/Shore Patrol types. He’s lucky he hasn’t been beaten to a pulp; if there’s any break in public attention towards his case, I’ll be surprised if he walks out of there alive. What an Army guy is doing in a USMC brig is another question entirely. It’s also amazing he hasn’t broken in 6 months of confinement, first in Kuwait, now in Quantico, VA. I imagine he got sent to the USMC brig so that he could be interrogated by NSA and CID, the brig is pretty close to DC.
The compelling, cinematic narrative of the lowly leaker sealing his downfall through stunningly incautious midnight confessional electrochats with a sneaky, geeky hacker/felon has served well to deflect interest and curiosity away from more critical sources and methods the government has likely deployed against Manning and Wikileaks.
As Jane noted on Tuesday, Marcy pointed out last July – crucially – that none of the official charges leveled against Manning hinge on information from Lamo’s instant message logs.
Even as it crumbles under scrutiny for the few of us who care, the tale of the hacker’s logs serves the government’s ends so long as a wispy peripheral sense of its supposed centrality continues to permeate the zeitgeist, and so do its part to secure public support or (quite sufficiently) complacency for the judicial and extrajudicial excesses underway.
The “Manning-Lamo chat logs” are not subject to Miranda even if this was a case of civilian law enforcement. Miranda comes into play after a suspect has been placed under arrest or is being detained, i.e. is in handcuffs or is similarly restrained and is not free to go. Even if Lamo and Poulsen were deputized federal law enforcement agents, their casual conversations, putatively initiated by Manning, are not subject to the exclusionary rule, nor would they be even if Poulsen and Lamo were Federal agents and they initiated the conversation.
What would keep the “chat logs” out of evidence is that they are documentary hearsay, offered without a proper foundation. The only authentication offered for the chat logs so far is that provided by Lamo, who is the sole source for the chat logs. Lamo is a convicted felon, moreover his crime of conviction involves dishonesty. He has a record of psychiatric treatment and a reputation for making contradictory statements about material facts in the case. Moreover, he is a hacker with sufficient expertise to have fabricated the “chat logs” and accompanying indicia on his own, and the motive to do so, based on his statements about Manning’s alleged actions. There appears to be no independent authentication of the “chat logs” outside of Adrian Lamo, such as server logs not on Lamo’s computer, hard drives, or any other physical storage media which have been in Lamo’s exclusive possession and control for any length of time. This lack of proper foundation is what should keep these “chat logs” out of evidence in a trial, should it come to that.
the edit function on this page is a disaster, it screws up any formatting, so I’ll just write my remarks in a text editor and cut and paste them..
I think what needs to go on before there’s any more talk about Lamo’s so-called chat logs is the authentication of those alleged chat logs. If the Army isn’t using them for its case against Manning, there’s probably good reason for that. The important thing to look at is the Army’s evidence
… But… and a big But at that,
what should be REALLY LOOKED AT is the CONTENT of what was LEAKED – there’s solid documentation of war crimes, namely shooting wounded people who are obviously wounded. That’s a war crime under the Geneva Convention of 1949, to which both the US and Iraq are signatories, and which covers and binds both of them. Even if the wounded were so-called insurgents, they were still protected persons under the Geneva Convention and their deliberate and premeditated killing was a gross violation – and should be prosecuted as such.
Lamo and Poulsen are playing a role, not as accusers, but as distractors, keeping the eyes of the American public on things which do not implicate the Federal Government and its agents and military forces in wrongdoing.
If you refresh your page after editing a comment, all original formatting returns intact
U.S. Army Pfc. Bradley Manning reportedly was not arrested until after the alleged instant-message chats with Adrian Lamo from May 21 through May 25, 2010.
Therefore, the alleged chat logs and any other communications with Pfc. Manning before he was first offered his Miranda warning and told his Miranda rights, are inadmissible as evidence at any court martial or trial of Pfc. Manning, although the information in those chat logs may be used by prosecutors to build a case against Pfc. Manning.
This conclusion by a non-lawyer is based on the article cited and appended below.
The full article is located in my FDL Diary on December 30, 2010, 5:02 AM:
at http://my.firedoglake.com/humanist/.
In addition, it would seem that the mental health and state of mind of Adrian Lamo during his alleged communications with Pfc. Manning are not legally relevant. Furthermore, it would seem that any attempts by Adrian Lamo to entrap or induce Pfc. Manning into implicating or incriminating himself in any alleged criminal activity are not legally relevant.
It would be helpful to know the opinion of a criminal defense lawyer, especially a military defense lawyer, on this matter of self-incrimination as it applies to the case of Pfc. Manning.
It has been suggested that the U.S. government has offered U.S. Army Pfc. Bradley Manning a plea bargain based on the current charges against him if he will incriminate Julian Assange in criminal activity. It also has been suggested that the U.S. government is threatening to charge U.S. Army Pfc. Bradley Manning with additional unspecified crimes (possibly facing the death penalty), some of which crimes may be based on the information in the alleged Lamo-Manning instant-message chat logs. Therefore, those alleged chat logs may play a role in the legal process.
It seems that the most legally relevant information about Adrian Lamo in this case is his history of lying. His reportedly long and detailed documented history of untruthfulness may be used to impeach him as a prosecution witness and all of his potential testimony, including his alleged sole-sourced instant-message Lamo-Manning chat logs (text files, not audio or audiovideo files).
Because Establishment Journalism sees itself as the Gatekeepers to the News. They (in their own eyes) are the only ones capable enough and responsible enough to judge the context of the narrative and shape it accordingly. The rest of us, in their view, can’t see The Big Picture.
As such, these people have–perhaps unconsciously–become agents for the powerful, for the Connected Insiders who give them the Big Picture the rest of us don’t get to see. (And some, like Michael Lind over at Salon.com, are militating for new laws forcing us all to become such agents.)
Citizen journalists undermine this perverted “function” of Real Journalism. Hence the hostility directed at them by Professional Journalists, and the pains they take to explain why Julian Assange is not a Real Journalist. By publishing the unfiltered facts you have undermined their narrative–hence the “discrediting Lamo” comment–and are interfering with their function as “journalists.”
The UCMJ often provides the same rights civilians have. Article 10 provides for the right to a speedy trial, and the right of the accused to know what the specific charges are. Art. 13 prohibits pre-trial punishment (and it seems this is being violated in Manning’s case). Art. 31 gives servicemembers the right to remain silent. Etc.
Benjamin Franklin was a citizen journalist.
Here’s the stupidest apologia for Wired/Lamo I’ve seen so far:
http://blog.reidreport.com/2010/12/the-wikiwars-what-is-glenn-greenwald-after-and-is-wired-obligated-to-help-him-find-it/
I’m a practicing criminal defense attorney and have been in practice for about 9 years. Here’s my Miranda analysis:
The “Manning-Lamo chat logs” are not subject to Miranda even if this was a case of civilian law enforcement. Miranda comes into play after a suspect has been placed under arrest or is being detained, i.e. is in handcuffs or is similarly restrained and is not free to go. Even if Lamo and Poulsen were deputized federal law enforcement agents, their casual conversations, putatively initiated by Manning, are not subject to the exclusionary rule, nor would they be even if Poulsen and Lamo were Federal agents and they initiated the conversation.
What would keep the “chat logs” out of evidence is that they are documentary hearsay, offered without a proper foundation. The only authentication offered for the chat logs so far is that provided by Lamo, who is the sole source for the chat logs. Lamo is a convicted felon, moreover his crime of conviction involves dishonesty. He has a record of psychiatric treatment and a reputation for making contradictory statements about material facts in the case. Moreover, he is a hacker with sufficient expertise to have fabricated the “chat logs” and accompanying indicia on his own, and the motive to do so, based on his statements about Manning’s alleged actions. There appears to be no independent authentication of the “chat logs” outside of Adrian Lamo, such as server logs not on Lamo’s computer, hard drives, or any other physical storage media which have been in Lamo’s exclusive possession and control for any length of time. This lack of proper foundation is what should keep these “chat logs” out of evidence in a trial, should it come to that.