The majority of Democrats, Republicans and Independents all oppose the proposed cut in the Social Security payroll tax, according to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll (PDF). Further, they would not support the overall package if it did NOT have an extension of unemployment benefits.
There is good reason for the opposition to cutting the Social Security payroll tax. As Nancy Altman has noted, there is tremendous danger in the proposed cut to Social Security payroll taxes. It means that Social Security will not be taking in those funds, even as it continues to pay out benefits:
That means that the federal government will have to continue to transfer $120 billion to the Social Security trust funds each and every year even as it has to transfer more and more interest payments as the trust funds continue to grow and as interest rates return to more normal levels. Unless Congress acts to restore Social Security to solvency, the Treasury bonds held in trust will have to be redeemed, again on top of that new $120 billion transfer from the general fund, starting fifteen years from now, assuming Congress even continues to make the $120 billion every year before that point. These dollars will be competing with dollars for defense, environmental protection, education, school lunches, Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, SSI, Pell grants for low income college students, and every other good and service financed by the federal government.
This is what the President gave the Republicans in exchange for the Making Work Pay tax credit. As you can see, the GOP plan is not only incredibly unpopular across the board, it benefits those at the upper end of the income scale to the detriment of those at the bottom:
Moreover, the poll found that extending unemployment benefits — the President’s justification for giving the GOP everything they asked for — is incredibly popular with the public. Just 26% oppose extending unemployment benefits, while 72% favor their extension. That includes 88% of Democrats, 73% of Independents and 55% of Republicans.
The poll concludes that the Republicans got by far the better part of the deal:
Averaging views on each of the four main elements of the package suggests that the GOP, in this sense, can be said to have won the better deal. Republicans favor the four items by an average of 61-37 percent; Democrats, by a closer 54-42 percent. Independents, at 52-44 percent, align more closely with Democrats.
But in a single question taking the package as whole, Democrats and independents come along, with 68 percent support in both groups, compared with 75 percent among Republicans. A driving force looks to be unemployment benefits, favored by nearly three-quarters of independents as well as nearly nine in 10 Democrats.
The depth of that support also contributes: Sixty-six percent of Democrats “strongly” favor extending benefits, the highest partisan support for any individual element of the plan. And 48 percent of independents strongly back it as well, the one element on which their views, too, are most strongly felt.
That last part is key. Without the extension of unemployment benefits, the tax cut package is actually unpopular:
| Support for parts of tax plan: |
Democrats | Republicans | Independents | Total |
| Extending unemployment benefits | 88 | 55 | 73 | 72 |
| Extending tax cuts for all | 38 | 85 | 49 | 54 |
| Increasing exemption on estate tax | 52 | 60 | 48 | 52 |
| Cutting Social Security payroll tax | 37 | 42 | 38 | 39 |
| Average support for all four items | 54 | 61 | 52 | 54 |
| Average support w/out UE extension | 42 | 61 | 45 | 48 |
The President has veto power. He has the ability to keep sending things back to Congress if they don’t pass something he likes. You may remember President George Bush, he did it all the time.
If the GOP wants to keep passing tax cuts for the rich WITHOUT extending unemployment benefits, the plan will be unpopular. The President would be well within his right to veto it and send Congress back to the drawing board, but also have public support with him for forcing an unemployment benefit extension.
If Obama is not going to fight with the wind at his back like this, he never will.






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What are the cross-tabs for support in the socio-economic stratum that TV anchors, DC pundits and
big bucks campaign contributors belong to? My guesses:
Extend UI: 0% (UI increases unemployment, according to the University of Chicago)
Extend tax cuts for all: 100% (Job creators need to be incentivized)
Increase exemption on estate tax (to ∞): 100% (Do you know how expensive Aspen is?)
Cutting Social Security payroll tax: 100% (People need to “own” their retirement)
thanks for the info Jane
the information shows the Obvious
1. Obama attacks SS again, (catfood commission)
people stuff like this just doesn’t happen, like Jane and others have been saying for days, OBAMA is holding un-employment benefits hostage to get the tax cuts for the rich, this POLL shines a BRIGHT light on this (the GOP is not holding un-employment hostage)
Obama and his political team plan all of this, with the help of other Dems.
the media wants everyone to ignore the OBVIOUS! why not have this tax cut debate before the midterms?
the simple answer is very clear now, the tax cuts for the rich would have failed, and the DEMS would have done a lot better a the Polls.
now you know why the MSM does not want Obama primaried. Because he maintains the status quo. Obama = NO CHANGE! NO HOPE!
Obama is not going to fight
with the wind at his back like this, he never will.Obama in a nutshell.
I think this pretty much puts to bed the notion that we couldn’t pass unemployment extensions on their own. There would be riots on the streets if the GOP tried to do this, particularly during the holiday season. I know the President doesn’t like to fight, but it’s winning these kinds of low-hanging fruit fights that appeal to a massive majority of the country that makes our party stronger and our country stronger. It builds on our ability to increase our agenda, instead of allowing it to shrink — and it costs Republican votes here and into the future.
This is not chess, this is checkers. The President really, really just doesn’t care about the middle and working class — he’s not willing to fight for us at all.
De facto hostage taking, while still wasting vast economic value right out your tailpipe! What a deal for America! Like “Drunks” in states of denial still looking for the fix?
The plan to make the unemployed a “hostage” was hatched at the outset or these would never be coupled in the first place. The powers that be decided to wait until the final hour and there would be no alternative BUT to give up the unemployed as hostage to the rich getting richer. This is pretty sick if you ask me – particularly from one who used “Bush’s (vulgar) tax cuts for the wealthiest” as an integral, powerful part of his campaign. I worked my fanny off to get out the vote for him and I am feeling so bereft and devoid of hope for our future right now. I hate to say it but we’ve been betrayed and credibility has been woefully lost.
Obama is not going to fight. He is a leech in pimp’s clothing.
What are we gonna do?
Call the White House? Email them? They do NOT listen, and they do NOT care about the peoples’ opinion. We are solely a vehicle for expanding their own wealth.
Obama has shown his cards from the very beginning…and we keep going…no wait..wait..he is playing chess.
He isn’t even playing Pong.
Great post, btw Jane. You always rock with this stuff. I think we have to pretty much abandon trying to get this sleazeball to work with us, as he holds us in nothing but contempt.
But, hey, there is always primaryobama.com, right? Site launches in the new year!
There is a question I’d like to ask this administration right now:
Who are the hostages now? It’s America’s middle class and poor whose safety net programs will be slashed using this new deficit ($700 billion for the rich) as rationale for doing so.
this is my takeaway as well.
Their astounding arrogance regarding people expecting them to fulfill their campaign promises is unprecedented. Do they really think that by empty words “this is not what I’d like either” they’re going to get a pass on this piece of chicanery and slight of hand? People are awakening and realizing that they’ve been taken and it will definitely translate into Obama’s numbers declining like the titanic with his base. No ’bout adout it!
If the House or Senate change anything in this bill it will be to give even more to the wealthy elites. Obama will then sign it faster than you can say, “Fuck you, Obama.”
OT kind of. The NY TImes has an opinion column this week by Ishmael Reed. Ishmael Reed! saying Obama can’t fight because if he did, he would come off as the “angry black man”. I mean, really? This is the ultimate apologist position. Tell it to those who are unemployed, Mr. Reed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/opinion/12reed.html?_r=1&ref=opinion
Many commented there saying “I don’t care what color he is, I want leadership” etc. The comments are worth reading.
Here’s another question I have right now:
What separates Obama from moderate Republicans?
Answer: Absolutely nothing!
As always, thanks so much Jane for your wisdom, insight, and for working for the progressive cause. I love that you’ve been making the rounds – the middle class has virtually no one to speak for them these days of massive propaganda against the very principles upon which this country was founded.
Thanks a million!
Support? Who needs support? They will pass it anyway. And smile all the way to the banks… who will be their future employers. With golden parachutes and nice kick backs for their service in advancing the corporate/banking agenda. It is, after all, in the best interest of those who matter right? The priveleged few.
Elected officials no longer need polls to feed their agenda. That’s what they have donations and lobbysist for.
Silly Jane, you really think elected officials care about what majority of the country wants? How many times do they have to prove that theory wrong? It’s not about us. It’s about them.
Rasmussen today:
Most voters like the tax cut deal President Obama made with congressional Republicans.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 56% of Likely U.S. Voters favor the agreement that extends the Bush tax cuts for all Americans for two more years, cuts the Social Security payroll tax rate for one year and renews long-term unemployment benefits for an additional 13 months. Just 29% oppose the deal, but 15% are not sure about it. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
Forty-nine percent (49%) of voters say the agreement will be good for the economy while just 28% disagree and think it will be bad for the economy. Nine percent (9%) say it will have no impact, and 14% more are not sure.
Seventy percent (70%) of Republicans and 51% of unaffiliated voters favor the tax cut agreement. A plurality of Democrats (48%) share that view but 38% of those in the president’s party are opposed.
Political liberals are evenly divided—43% favor the deal and 41% are opposed
Moral of the story: ca depender
I guess Joe Wilson was right after all.
Jane,
“If Obama is not going to fight…”
No way is he going to fight now or in the next two years. I laughed out loud when he said that he would stand up to the Repubs in the future. Not going to happen now or anytime for him.
Jane, we need your leadership now more than ever before in using the right approaches to getting progressives in the congress and getting rid of the Blue Dogs in every district that we can.
I concur with the above comments that note Obama’s disinterest in regular peoples’ concerns.
We’ve seen quite enough of him and his New Democrat approach. i have no trust in him to act on behalf of regular people. I’ve seen and heard enough of his subterfuge. We need an advocate for THE PEOPLE, not for the corporations. (Did that meeting with the CEOs occur already?)
He needs either to soon state unequivocally that he won’t seek reelection in 2012, or start acting like a damn peoples’ leader. Your choice Obama. We know you by your works, or is it deeds?
Where’s your link, troll?
Thanks for this info, Jane. If I can get up enough energy, I’ll forward it, or cut-n-paste to my e-mail list — y’know, the people who used to be my friends but with whom correspondence has fallen off, as they still blindly hold out hope for Obama.
There are fewer and fewer places to go — other than here at the Lake — to have a conversation among like-minded friends, and to garner support in these discouraging times.
I don’t know. I get up each morning and read FDL, and am informed about YET ANOTHER horrid thing Obama has done, or yet another former critic [e.g. Howard Dean] who’s pulling back on opposition to this awful president. I read the MSM coverage, and it’s shallow and cheerleading. It feels so depressing.
This morning I asked my husband — we are both north of 65 — if he could remember a time in American history when
** the economic picture was this bad; and
** the political picture was this bad; and
** elements to KEEP both the economic and political pictures bad — or to accelerate their decline — were enacted daily. [The Health Care bill, TARP, Citizens United, this tax give-away and SS take-away, the attacks on civil liberties and a free press, just to name a few.]
Personally we are not in as bad a shape as many here and throughout the country, and we are fortunate enough to be able to donate to organizations — like our local food bank — to help.
But I just feel so, so discouraged. I’m sure the country has gone through worse times, and as I said, I know folks have it worse [one friend was recently diagnosed with brain cancer; Elizabeth Edwards' death]. I’m trying to figure out where the light is in this long, dark tunnel.
Exactly right. He’s actually tightened the ropes.
More likely, they will make some minor cosmetic changes, at most tinkering with the rates,
and declare a major progressive win.
Rasmussen’s a joke anyway.
As I posted in another thread, I emailed my senators last week, but when I tried to call them today I could not get through. I was able to leave a voicemail for one senator, but the other senator’s voice mail was full and refused to take any more messages. I don’t know if this is good news or not.
This is why the tax cuts will never work. First look back at times when our economy was booming, the government was taxing the rich real good..Rich people are basically lazy and when you tax them heavy they must work at keeping more of their money and building their businesses.In that way the economy moves along real well and everyone is working..When you SOCIALIZE the rich with tax money they get real lazy.
True dat. Not much different than polling the RNC.
What you wrote. 100%
The only wind at his back is his own.
He sees no other.
The 2% Social Security tax cut is even more regressive than the bar graph suggests. This is because households in the top quintile (which roughly corresponds to the right-most bar in the chart) have 2.1 wage earners on average. So the $106,800 limit does not apply for the majority.
Another factor that is less obvious is that people’s incomes tend to be relatively consistent over time. So if these tax cuts were extended another year, you would double the height of each bar, magnifying the inequality.
Well, except there are no moderate GOPers in Congress, except maybe Lugar on foreign affairs. I’d call Obama slightly to the left of the current crop of RINO’s and to the right of the DLC.
Tweety went off on how this capitulation has a 60% approval rating so how could democrats NOT pass it!
WHY DIDN’T YOU SAY THAT FOR THE PUBLIC OPTION YOU FAT HEADED SON OF A WHORE!?
“OT kind of. The NY TImes has an opinion column this week by Ishmael Reed. Ishmael Reed! saying Obama can’t fight because if he did, he would come off as the “angry black man”. I mean, really? This is the ultimate apologist position. Tell it to those who are unemployed, Mr. Reed.”
Yeah, I guess then by Reeds logic its just not safe to elect a Black man.
Of course they could have permanently cut Social security FICA (with no loss of revenue to the SS trust funds) by at least 3 percentage points by simply uncapping SS FICA above $106K.
Of course that option has serious supply side consequences. That is, the supply of campaign contributions, so it was never on the table.
Hilarious.
Linking to Rasmussen to bolster support for the deal.
Wow, just turned on “The Ed Show” for the first time in months.
Doesn’t sound like the same Ed I got tired of hearing a few months ago.
Now of course the cynic in me says this is just part of the kabuki theater to make it appear as though the “liberals” are fighting fighting fighting….
Yeah, they’ll fight right up until this bill is law…. which is what the assholes want in truth.
Thanks, Jane, for continuing to shine the spotlight on the mendacity, venality and abjectly greedy criminality of Pres. Obama and the little piggies that surround him, support him and tell him what to do.
I could barely turn on the tv, listen to any radio or read any newspapers this weekend because nearly everything in the corporate-owned rightwing media *pissed me off* so much that I was getting headache.
Anyone who thinks tax cuts for the upper 5% right now is “good” has their head stuck where the sun don’t shine, and anyone who “argues” that this will be “stimulative” is full of it.
I do agree with Agent Orange (Boehner) that the nation needs to cut gov’t spending. Yes, I AGREE with the Orange One, but NOT on what *should* be cut. Agent Orange & Obama & their greedhead pals all want to cut what they call “welfare” and “entitlements,” but they wish to continue spending like drunken sailors on the MIC and wars of aggression for no reason, other than to line the pockets of their greedy gluttinous MIC pals.
Oink oink oink… this is just disgusting.
Agree: just what I thought. Rasumussan?? Yeah, right. Pull the other one. What a load of bull hockey. Dittohead stats for dittoheads.
Or, what would be the point of electing a black man if he can’t stand up for anything.
Since Obama and the Dems are neither incompetent nor weak, they must really think that we will vote for them in 2012 in spite of what they are doing because as they say “we have no where else to go”.
The jokes on us if they turn out to be right.
well that’s sort of the point I took from Reed’s editorial: see, kids, it’s not *worth it* voting for an AA for POTUS. It’s not that I’m racist or anything… it’s just that an AA POTUS simply cannot “do” anything. Which is just another load of crap.
The light at the end of the tunnel is the same light that’s always shined Mauimom. It’s a light that can never, EVER, be put out.
Human beings throughout all of history have seen attempt after attempt after attempt after attempt to putting that light out. At times those attempts have resulted in the light becoming dim indeed, but never has it gone out.
That light is the human spirit. The basic human characteristic of wanting to define one’s own way in which he/she interacts in this world. Even in the darkest of times throughout history that light continued to shine even if were only a few still shining. How do I know this? Because every time we’ve climbed back out of that darkness. Had that light ever been extinguished, we wouldn’t be here today free to discuss the things we are now.
Imagine how dim that light must’ve been for the slaves. I mean, can you imagine?? Yet even among them, that light continued to shine, dim as it may have been.
It’s a tragedy that we’ve allowed ourselves to get in a place where that tunnel is indeed long and dark again. But even if you can’t see it, trust me. There’s a light at the end of it. There always will be.
Peace.
I don’t think they give a sh*t who we vote for, or whether we vote or not. And I don’t think any politician gives a sh*t whether they’re voted in or not (perhaps except for Tea Party). It’s all Kabuki show, and they’re all only working for the super wealthy anymore.
The FIX is in. If so-called “Democrats” lose: so what?? they’ll just go get a cushy corporate payola job. Doesn’t matter.
Thank you. Well said. I needed that…
nothing worse for an economy than a bunch govt. subsidized, non working rich people. the trouble with this country is that all the REAL capitalists are dead. its their wastrel children and grandchildren we are dealing with now, and the only solution for a problem like that is a ~~~Edited by Moderator. Not even as rhetoric~~~
Moderate? You are being too kind.
As has been said here before, why would Obama fight against this when it is what he has wanted all along?
Oh, good source! Rasmussen, water bearer for the conservative right.
Obama will never fight for US.
He has already given up Presidential power to the GOP. He wont use veto, he never investigated Bush Cheney Crimes, he wont bring back habeas corpus and now standing with the GOP, it is this man who is willing to sacrifice social security to make the wealthy happy.
I can never go back to supporting Obama after this.
Shame on the democratic Senators who buy Obama’s right wing crap. The party is dying. Im no longer going to support them or enable them.
My money will go strictly to progressives not the National Democratric or Republican lite party. And what a fool he is, in 2012, it will be called the OBAMA DEFICITS.
As far as I’m concerned a vote to cut the payroll tax is a vote to cut Social Securty which certainly explains why I cannot get a commitment from my Senators to maintain benefits.
Exactly.
Their Plan A failed (the catfood commission) so they’ve gone to Plan B to kill Social Security.
As usual though, they’re one step ahead of us “lesser” people. When our efforts, like FDL stationing a person outside that door and catching Alan Simpson with his zipper down, killed Plan A, they made damn sure that Plan B would be a sure fire way of killing even it quicker.
Assholes.
Thanks Jane!
Looks like the bank bailouts all over again. No identifiable voting block supports it yet our government is ready to punch it thru.
Perhaps we should be polling the Wallstreet-Washington voting block.
Jane, really appreciate the bar charts. Makes it crystal clear.
“If Obama is not going to fight with the wind at his back like this, he never will.”
If?
IF????
I despair.
Why would he fight what he clearly wanted from the start? The time to settle this was January 2009, demanding a Congressional vote to end the Bush tax cuts for deficit and fairness reasons. *That* was when the wind was at his back. Ever since then, the winds are a-changing, predominantly coming out of his rear. This man, vanity layered thick on a hollow mannequin, sets a new standard for self-propelled gasbags.
I have no hope for this nation.
Obama is a con man. He said one thing during his campaign and immediately turned a deaf ear to those who worked to put him in office.
Not only has he a deaf ear, they are the ONLY ones who are treated to his utter disdain. No we never saw a change in Washington, at least not one for the better. We never saw the departure of the lobbyists, we never saw a return to ethics, we never saw prosecutions of the corrupt, we do not have a return of habeas corpus or privacy rights, we have but limited speech rights (truthful journalism is attacked but corporate propaganda and prejudice on air pandered to, we enable corporate raiders to remove jobs from his nation, have no tarriffs while we allow other nations to do just that, we spend a majority of tax monies for war and rob our seniors.
And why is it I should remain in this nation and a taxpayer?
Just what guarantees do I have today?
Not a lawful state, not a nation that would never breach my contracted for retirement, not a nation that respects my privacy, but a new nation that even saves our naked pictures taken at the airports.
Other nations provide health care for tax monies, other nations do not limit the time on unemployment, other nations do not ask seniors to die at work but have far more humane retirement ages.
So tell me again what I have as a result of paying into this nation?
I am not a Christian and continually hear how that religion is the only one that matters. Again why do I remain?
Where should I go when I retire?
I no longer feel this is that shining beacon of liberty.
I believe we live in a corrupt government run by foreign corporations who care nothing for the people.
And the Obama Tim Kaine party is one giant farce.
Very. Well. Done.
Bravo!
My thoughts exactly.
Last week I had to resubmit an I-9 form, proving I could legally work in this country. My thought was, let the government or business prove I can’t work here. Put the onus on them, where it belongs. I was born here, why should I have to prove otherwise? Especially, since I’m no longer sure what benefits, I, a little person, derive from having been born here and living here.
If they can’t prove I belong here, refund me all taxes paid for the past 30+ years and relocate me to the country of my choosing. The only thing keeping me here, currently, is my 79 year old mother. Having traveled, a little, I honestly can’t figure out what is so great about the USA. Albeit, I haven’t really delved into the politics of the countries I’ve visited.
Well, we certainly are seeing how a diverse party can work together. Who knew that a party formed from the corrupt, clueless, corporatist, and cowardly could all get together to pass legislation. I would have been sceptical that such a thing was possible but they have proved me wrong.
I predicted that Obama, his party, and the Republicans would find they had PLENTY of things they could agree on after the midterms.
I think it needs to be emphasized that we public workers will get nothing from the payroll tax cut. I am a state employee, I do not pay into Social Security, so this gains me nothing. However, I did pay into sociual security for over 25 years before I went to work for the state and I am entitled to Social Security benefits when I retire. This will be diminished by cutting the amount of Social Security available to me. Just last month we were hearing that Social Security is going broke and we have to cut benefits and raise the retirement age. Now we can afford a holiday. ANd I don’t want to hear any crap that the shortfall is coming from general funds and Social Security won’t owe anything back. That’s a lie and we all know it.
Obama promised to raise or eliminate the income cap on Social Security. Where did all that talk go? Social Security would be flush if he did what he promised. THis tax cut will save my daughter who is in college about $20/month. Not worth it. It will not help my 80 year old mother, who finally retired last year. SHe isn’t even getting COLA again. It won’t help my brother who is on disability. Or my other brother who is disablerd veteran.
My taxes didn’t go down much when the Bush cuts went into effect, and they won’t go up that much if they end. The Making Work Pay benefit, however, was good for pretty much everyone I know. Why isn’t Obama working on that? It is about the only thing he has done right.
Speaking of hostages, Steve Inskeep of NPR asked Obama an excellent question:
STEVE INSKEEP:
LMAO – if it wasn’t so sad.
It’s well worth listening to for the very effectively dry, nonchalant way Inskeep posed this to Obama.
The question is @about 2 minutes in:
http://www.npr.org/2010/12/10/131949362/transcript-obama-on-taxes-economy-and-start
So I have not read the comments to see if this has been discussed, but to me it looks like the tax cut to the rich ($139,000) plus this piece ($107,000) adds up to a quarter of a million for the rich? Plus whatever other bennies they are getting. . .
America Held Hostage…by the Republican Party.
The federal government held hostage…by the Republican Party.
State governments held hostage…by the Republican Party.
Local governments held hostage…by the Republican Party.
Our public schools, public parks, public libraries, public fire departments, public police departments, all held hostage by the Republican Party.
Our nation’s children’s future held hostage…by the Republican Party.
So, you see, not only are the middle-class (and poor) being held hostage so the Republicans can extend budget-busting deficit-exploding tax breaks for their wealthiest patrons, the top 2 percent , all of our nation’s citizens are being held HOSTAGE by the evil-personified Republican Party.
At least after the 2012 elections we will be back to the 2 party system.
Unfortunately those 2 parties are going to be Wall Street and China.
Thanks, OFG.
My husband & I both lived through the Vietnam era, and my husband risked all sorts of things registering AA voters in LA & MS. We’ve never seen a time like this in this country: a united front of president, legislature & courts, plus the “press,” captured and pushing us towards horrible, horrible outcomes, AND sowing the seeds of barriers to turning back [e.g., can't spend because of the deficit; can't increase SS benefits because of "shortages" in its fund].
And so few places to apply one’s efforts to fight against this, and such small success in the opposition. That’s why I was reaching to remember a similar time, and to figure out how people got through.
Why so much credence in this poll? The only poll that counts is the one taken on election day, and it clearly favored the exact opposite conclusions of this poll. Why even bother with a stupid meaningless poll such as this. No one cares what the public thinks, the only thing that matters is what voters think, and voters, at least in 2010, are overwhelmingly against letting any of the Bush tax cuts expire, and they are almost as overwhelmingly against having Social Security and unemployment insurance continue to exist. Were Angle and O’Donnell not such complete idiots, we’d be looking at the biggest anti Social Security congress in decades. Too bad, I’d a loved to see the look on Grandpa Teaparty’s face when his check gets no COLA next year and he realizes he’s been had.
Funny how that happened with the Democrats controlling Congress and the White House. Hmm….you’d almost think we have interchangeable clones in office. How did I vote for Al and get Norm? Invasion of the Body Snatchers, I guess.
If HCR was the Democrat’s Paths of Glory
Would this be their The Bridge on the River Kwai
Or ‘A bridge too far’,??
Looks like all Americans are against this stupid stupid FICA tax ‘holiday’. They feel the cold dead hands of the oligarchy closing around their necks.
This is what I’ve been saying since the tax cut deal was announced, and this is exactly why the President could have afforded to call the GOP’s bluff by allowing all the tax cuts to expire. The GOP would have been forced by voter outrage to give ground on the issue of unemployment insurance benefits. But the President, being disinclined to exploit a strong negotiating position . . . well, I really don’t need to finish that, do I?
Madness!…Madness!
Yep.
Never has fought, never will fight. Evil and gutless.
Thanks for breaking it down so well, Jane. Very depressing…just another way for the rich to make out much better than the average Jane or Gene, all the while driving us closer to the precipice. What happened to hope and change we can believe in? What happened to common sense? What happened to sanity?
Oligarchy, here we come…
Oh, A Bridge Too Far was a great movie (and book). Interestingly the Ryan O’Neal character, 82nd Airborne commander James Gavin (yes O’Neal was age-appropriate, Gavin was the youngest division commander of the war) became a Kennedy Democrat, serving as his ambassador to France. Later, Gavin was a member of the Committee for National Health Insurance. Ha ha, just noticed on the letterhead of that 1980 letter, Mitch McConnell’s first boss in Washington, Senator John Sherman Cooper (R-KY), retired by then, was on CNHI’s executive committee as well.
Sorry, its not often that my interests in movie, military and political trivia overlap so neatly. :o)
FDL Graphics Department! yay. just a stunning job, Jane. way better than Goolsbee’s puerile “white board” at the WH last week.
To Mauimom: Try to hang in there. It is easy to get discouraged, and things do look quite bleak at the moment. However, I believe Republicans will overplay their hand in the coming months, and their victory, which was due more to discouraged Dems staying away from the polls than from a belief on the part of voters that Republicans have a better alternative, will hopefully be short-lived. Your heart is in the right place. Let’s hope Obama’s is.
Thank You, OFG. Just listening to Paul McCartney live at the Apollo right now singing “Give Peace a Chance.”
IT’S AMAZING THAT IT TOOK A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT AND DEOMOCRATIC SENATE AND HOUSE TO EXTEND TAX CUTS TO THE WEALTHY(PLUS INHERITANCE$$$)and
EFFECTIVELY KILL SOCIAL SECURITY.
IN 2011 OUR REPUGS/DEMS MUST WORK ON THE DEFICIT.
That’s where we “little people” get to make the sacrifices. AMERICAN STYLE CAPITALISM IS GREAT FOR THE BANKSTERS, CORPORATIONS, MEDIA STARS, AND OUR POLITICIANS(ENABLERS).
**Mod Note: All caps is considered yelling and is hard to read.**
No only was Joe Wilson correct but so was Ben Quayle, Chris Hedges and Ralph Nader,,Obama is going to cut SS benefits and force workers into private accounts…the same media that jumped down Bush’s throat concerning his plan for SS is now can’t wait for the cuts from Obama…they are bought by the same corporate money that bought the GOP, most of the Dems and Obama,,here is an idea..leading by example! Let’s have the President and his staff; all memebers of Congress take a 50% pay cut; all living Presidents and all members of Congress present and past cut their health benefits cancel their fat pensions and put towards the debt..also let’s force the banks to give back ALL of the money they stole from OUR pensions along with over 3 trillion in bailouts and increase SS for all of us..
watertiger is upstairs!
Late Night: Bad Dog, America! Look What You’ve Done.
If I see one more supposed “analysis” saying that people making more money will save more from a tax break than people who make less, I’m going to lose all faith in the American population’s ability to think.
Of course! The more money you are paying in tax, the more you would save should the rate be cut by a percentage.
IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR IT TO BE ANY OTHER WAY. Almost no matter what the differing percentages were between those making little money and those making a lot of money. Meaning, you could even cut the lower end by 10% and upper end by 1% and STILL have the upper end saving more money.
BECAUSE THEY PAY MORE MONEY THAN THOSE MAKING LESS!!
It is a nonsensical point to even make.
And comes back to the real point; which is that those advancing this argument don’t want any reduction ever for any upper income person. They feel that all money made in the US is the government’s property. What you get to keep is a gift from the government. You didn’t earn it, the government let you have it.
The minute the system departed from equal protection under the law, it was inevitable that the majority would dictate to the minority.
There is no tax that the 90% would not inflict on the 10% because that 90% doesn’t incur any penalty for doing so.
But, systems always compensate for such things. The well to do pay money to elect politicians to protect their interests from the 90% who will do anything that doesn’t cost them something.
Once you get away from equal protection, and a portion of the population can be singled out for different treatment that the rest, you get distortions in the system.
In the past I believe that worked for democrats. After all, Obama won Hillary supporters, Edwards Supporters and more because everyone felt the alternative more Bush type years were too unacceptable, thus any democrat would be better. Therein lies the image of sheep following whomever, whatever as long as the D was after the name.
However, I believe this time Mr Obama will not succeed as he did previously. The reason is that he is making the line between the two parties blurred, leaving no room for enthusiasm for the democratic party. As the party shifts ever more to the right win and concedes the differentiation is lessened ever more. As such, the sheep may not even make it to the polls. Those whose hope is eroded may just protest (even if it means going independent or voting Green). Thereto, is a lesson from the Tea party people. They went against the grain and brought in their own however foolish. Maybe the sheep of the democrats need to protest, bring their own, and, similarly. oppose the status quo of the tone deaf.
Its interesting that Mr Obama claims to bring all sides to the table. However, his table never seems to offer a place setting for the progressives or liberals. It is worse when you consider that this group probably worked the hardest to bring him into office. I think when people get burned enough, there may be residual anger. Mr Obama is unprepared for or unwilling to acknowledge that and that is his folly.
I really believe his constant dismissal of the left is ultimately diminishing the democratic party, leaving a huge enthusiasm gap. And thus elections are being and will be lost. Even George Bush knew that you have to reward your base and that is something Mr Obama does not acknowledge. He believes his base must instead worship at his altar. I just see this as one huge mistake.
Catfood Commission Sponsors 1 : Americans 0 as of now.
I never analyzed the scenario of President jumping in to shrink the social security pot. Worst case scenario was stock market showing shock and awe to force congress to gut the social security but it did not happen.
Let us not be naive about this. Democrats hold all the cards right now and for next two years with Senate and Presidency still in their hands. Tax Cut idea was their plan.
Americans best bet is with Congress. But till now Congress always folded for some unknown reason at the right time. If congress agrees to this you can safely assume catfood commission wins by stealth on its intent and goals and you can see President gleefully signing the bill he will say he wanted all along.
We’re in unchartered territory, probably in year four of our countries third depression (Panic of 1893, Great Depression, Great Recession). Unfortunately, will still have about 10 more years of this. By the time we get back on our feet, China will have surpassed us in GDP and our country will be looking at a dissolution similar to the old Soviet Union. The numbers don’t lie.
Paths of Glory is the Greatest War movie ever made. If you have the chance, please see it. I think it’s been downloaded to Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgwedw__Npo
I am really hoping for a third party like one Ross Perot did in 1992 to be done right now.
People are really in a mood to clean the house, senate and Presidency if something like that happens instead of seeing bi-annual Wall Street Vs Wall Street elections.
I think we are seeing the first hints at Obama’s re-elecdtion strategy. I think he will continue to make deals and put more things in jeopardy. After this deal, he’ll be able to say:
Vote for me or your taxes will go up.
Vote for me or the tax cuts for the rich won’t expire.
Vote for me or Social Security will be dro9pped from the budget and 2% short from now on.
Of course he cannot guarantee that if he is re-elected that he can pull the fat out of the fire on all or any point, but this is forcing support by blackmail, he’s sure we have no place else to go.
They’re already partying.
Social Security is on a fast track to oblivion, after the Republicans gives all the money to the stock market. When is the government ever going to pay back what they have stolen?
Those (most making $20,000 or less) will see a tax hike who don’t have the withholding (some 25 million people. Is that right Jane?).
Obama makes this sound like the icing on a cake, when it was a plan that included things that were never before in the plan, like the “Paris Hilton” freebie which was NEVER necessary to be put in.
Sounds to me like Biden called Mitch McConnell and ask for his wish list.
This is a bad bill and the timing makes sure it is extended again, if not made permanent.
I don’t understand how the rich live with themselves unless the are all psychopaths.
“Only the little people pay taxes” Leona Helmsley.
I guess I should say “some” rich, or mainly Republican rich. I realize there are a few good ones. Very few!
If we could have a 3rd party that would have a chance of winning I would be with you. I believe a 3rd party just gives Republicans a victory in 2012. I don’t see any Ross Perot’s with his deep pockets on the horizon.
I realize even now the Republicans are trying to marginalize the Tea Party and even are going after Sarah Palin who I really don’t think the 1/2 term governor has a shot at winning anything.
Problem with a 3rd party in America; We are a winner take all republic. There is no proportional representation.
We are the weakest form of democracy, as designed. In a Euro. parliamentary democracy a 3rd party has a much better chance because at least the few seats it wins in parliament can be used to build coalitions and exert some influence.
We are one person = 1/4 vote.
There are entire ‘pro-rep’ systems being talked about, but it will never happen here.
The Obamlican tax plan is obviously the kiss of death for Social Security.
More importantly, it is the final proof Barack the Betrayer is (and always has been) the ultimate fraudster of U.S. politics — a closet Republican who hid behind dark skin, Big Lie slogans and a Democrat label to do precisely what he is doing: destroy forever the credibility of the Democratic Party, complete the destruction of the American Experiment in constitutional democracy and finish its conversion to tyrannocapitalist despotism.
Indeed it is now obvious Obama uses the Democrat label merely as a shield against criticism — the most viciously hypocritical ploy in U.S. political history.
This explains not just why he received unprecedented financial support from Wall Street but why despite the Democrat label he governs as if he were a Republican. (The Republican “opposition” — to which he shamelessly surrenders every time — is merely the theater of con, an unprecedented application of the technique by which shills are used to lure the con-man’s marks into maximum vulnerability.)
When we examine the facts, no other explanation is plausible.