Of course, for the truly poor taxpayer making less than $20,000, taxes will go up, since the Make America Work tax credit expires and the payroll tax holiday won’t make up for it.

Sturm und Drang…

Keep in mind that Obama is also a millionaire. Peace

The most interesting thing I saw today was in USA Today finance page. Basically quoting a number of economists saying this deal will be a positive “game changer” for the economy.

When the economy does improve next year, progressives will be left behind. And Democrats will bury themselves further.

However, if Dem’s scuttle the deal, they will already be buried about 10 feet under and may never be heard from again.

Be prepared for another 2008. We may be about ready to go over the cliff again. Pelosi not passing the original bailout on first vote put a dagger into the psyche of the economy in 2008, maybe Dem’s are ready to deliver another blow.

greed is great!!

Obama will be greeted with even more riches when he leaves the White House, sinecures or quangoes, by and large, I expect.

Keith Olbermann provided an excellent comment last night on this tax cut giveaway to the rich. Good for him. On the other hand, Thom Hartmann just claimed that his goal and message IS TO GET PRESIDENT OBAMA reelected in 2012. Since I am well aware that Thom Hartmann is a master at messaging, I’m not going to get suckered in to his message and he permanently lost a listener. Does anyone know if there is a true “progressive” who isn’t trying to constantly message that we should reelect President Obama?

Has the fact that we have associated a tax cut for the rich with helping the unemployed finally indicated the moral corruption of this country?

http://www.theyoungturks.com

Oh, and I forgive Thom somewhat because his eye is on the SCOTUS as the true game-changer. Doesn’t mean I don’t disagree with him and advocate for a tough primary challenger, but at least I understand where he’s coming from. Cheers.

Obama had Boehner hostage.

Boehner said on Meet the Press : “if the only option I have is voting only on 250 000k of course I will vote for it.”

Instead of using this amazing leverage, Obama immediately gave the gun to Boehner, and told him “here you go John, now tie me up, and demand ransom”

You want me to believe Obama and his inner circle were not aware of what Boehner said out fucking loud on a beltway conventional Sunday show?

This is 100% pure kabuki bullshit.
very hard to believe.

Jeebus why is no journalist “besides Rachel and PCCC” calling Gibbs, Axelclod, and Obama on this?

Obama benefits personally from the tax breaks for the rich. But when he leaves office-probably in two years-he stands to make a boatload of money. Obama’s only interest is in lining his own pocket.

When will we get to a point where peoples’ assets are frozen, or better yet stripped, if they wish to serve in elected office at a state or national level. It’s just not right that these millionaires and billionaires get to vote on policy that effects them so much.

How can any of these people honestly say they’re being objective about an issue that could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars a year?

There’s also nothing in here about the debt ceiling, which needs to be passed before March I believe.

So we will have at least one more round of hostage taking.3 guesses as to how Obama reacts on that one.

I bet he’ll call Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald and ask for ideas!

The lack of help for the 99 ers is the worst part of this deal. I think the estate tax is right behind it. If they could fix that, I would buy in. Without it this is a bitter pill, and I think it will ultimately cost Obama and the party in the next election. That is why so many are running away from it. son of a bitch, if he would only stand tall and fight for it. Fuck, he is infuriating.

And Boehner replied, “did I say your money or your life? Damn! I meant your money and your life.”

Jared Polis, whose net worth is somewhere between $97.4 million and $254.4 million.

The tax cut deal isn’t based on net worth, but rather Federal taxable income.

Did KO determine what his income was?

Bob Shrumm is really pissing me off right now “Are the liberals going to feed the poor the porridge of ideological purity?” “A challenge to Obama from the left will lose.” “This is really a stimulus package.”

So-where are people going as they leave the Democratic party. Green? Coffee? Socialist? We need to poll the population and coordinate a movement from the 2nd Republican party to where our voices will be listened to and not perfunctorily dismissed.

Wait till Polis breaks out his checkbook….if he hasn’t already.

NO not now. I can’t only handle one of these fuck ups at a time.

$100 million earning 8% interest a year gives you $8 million dollars in earned income a year. Polis has a vested interest in voting with Obama and for his lousy compromise. Peace

For the unemployed, they’ll get a tax bill, since they will with hold 10 percent if you opt for that to pay income tax at the end of the year. If it does up to 15 percent, that means the unemployed will be hit with a tax BILL, not a tax break.

U&Mm, yeah he does but he does not get 8% a year interest unless he is in some pretty risky stuff.

Why insist on characterizing it as a compromise? It is not. Never was, never will be.

All of the shills (talking heads) paid off by the oligarchy are out in force. Peace

this deal is going over the cliff in flames

OT– ‘Tis the season to spread bullshit. 1) Now WikiLeaks is about the Geys!– “American Family Association: WikiLeaks is about gays in the military, not Assange” (link), 2) Ignore that Sweden is Sweden– “Assange ‘rape’ investigation reportedly sparked by STD fears” (link), 3) PDX entrapment repeated in Baltimore– “FBI: Baltimore bomb plot foiled” (link)

$100M earning 8% in tax exempt bonds gives you no tax liability, and no vested interest. Since we’re guessing.

Doesn’t matter. Whatever it is, he stands to make more than most of us just in interest.

Of course it is/was. Obama compromised his principles (and sold out “we the people”) to get the oligarchy to once again give him a billion dollars in 2012 to run for president in exchange for extending their tax break bonuses. Peacee

True enough, but these days,unless you take something really risky, you can’t make that kind of interest anywhere.

You apparently have few if any active invstments outside the stockmarket or a 401K. Loans ain’t cheap. Peace

Once again, I’m not interested in arguing semantics with you.

I wouldn’t know. I have zero income, very little savings and no UI benefits.

Please tell me where I can buy $100 million in tax exempt bonds unless I’m an institutional investor? I’d be very interested in knowing that information. Peace

Do you even know what the word semantics means? Peace

Sure you can sell cars and charge 21% interest to people who have bad credit but then lots of them go bankrupt or just can’t pay. So the 21% pays off some of the risk. (those thieves actually mark up the cars 25% and then tack on 21% interest besides. you’d think they’s get rich quick. some do, but most don’t.)

Well if USA Today says it…get real.

White House Clown Car just pulled up –

very serious economists™ who support “framework” disembark

tragic that we could all guess most of them

http://bit.ly/gOJZVu

Of course I do. And I’m still not interested in arguing with you.

OpenSecrets.org lists Polis 2008 Earned and Non-Investment Income as $565,848.

I admit I don’t know how they arive at that figure, but they list this.

Income
Organization Type Value
Jove Partners Guarrantee Pymt to Partner $32,283
Jovian Holdings Adm Serv Inc, Rental Inc $390,812
Jovian P4 LLC Rental Income $33,656
SPS Studios A Salary $105,972
The Bellagio V Winnings $3,125

Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is now ready for our perusal: Why Does Obama Keep Blaming Liberals for His Health Care Bill’s Unpopularity?

Jared Polis: This deal is “the best we can do.”

Hard to see how the rich could do better.

The worst feedback I have received has been from Dem party county chairs. If I criticize the proposed Social Security payroll cuts and call them a ‘poison pill’, I get called an “irrational bomb thrower”. They call me names because they can’t and don’t argue the facts of my position. Be prepared. The Dem party messengers have been told to blame the messengers. Just tell them how hypocritical they have become about their beloved concern about the growing ‘deficits’ now that they propose to increase them by 4 trillion over the next ten years. Both parties are now spouting that deficits don’t matter. We will see what they say January 2nd after this kabuki is over with.

Still spreading the bullshit. Gotta hand it to ya, you seem to have a never ending supply.

Anyone with a brain knows that it was the Republicans that blocked a real stimulus (with Obama’s wink and nod) AND everyone with a brain has noticed over the past 2 years that the Republican Party is willing to sabotage the ecomony in order to win elections. Repeat that. The Republican Party is willing to sabotage the American economy in order to win elections. Pretty damned near treason. But I digress, after all the Republican party passed treasonous a decade ago.

You’ve obviously got a functioning brain. The fact that you choose to use it to further the goals of a treasonous party speaks volumes. Folks like this disgust me, and millions of others. Most Americans, believe it or not, are just out there in a daily war called surviving. Most Americans, therefore, can’t be held responsible for the shit we’re in, and the shit we’re about to be in. But those who have actively worked to put in place those policies that have led and will lead to this disaster at some point in time will be held accountable.

I can’t wait for that day. Good luck to you on it.

I met Jared Polis at Netroots. A little LGBT gathering and he was working the room. I introduced myself as a former DNC member and the only Latina Lesbian to ever address a Pres convention.

Even then I was a 99er, having been cut off in April. I had to EXPLAIN to him what a 99er is. He had tried to tell me that I was glad that they had just extended unemployment.

Uh, no, you didn’t help me, you still haven’t helped me and yes, I am bitter. He ran away from the conversation.

Giving him a call and asking him would likely get this response – “Hunh?”

Polis’ riches come thanks to Bob Rubin, Larry Summers, & Greenspan’s dot.com bubble. He’ll follow the advice of “The Committee Who Saved The World” (http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19990215,00.html)not some whiny Professional Lefty, thank you very much:

In 1999, the dot-com venture Excite@Home bought bluemountain.com in a deal valued at $780 million. The 1999 price paid for bluemountain.com became an example of what was later seen as the excesses of the dot-com boom: the website was sold again in 2001, to the firm American Greetings, for just $35 million in cash. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Polis_Schutz

That he seems to not have empathy for those who’ve lived a less privileged life doesn’t surprise me any more with the Libertarian-Liberal-Left. Seems to be a page from this philosophers bible:

George [Bush] .. declared that “people are poor because they are lazy.” He was opposed to labor unions, social security, environmental protection, Medicare, and public schools. To him, the antitrust watch dog, the Federal Trade Commission, and the Securities Exchange Commission were unnecessary hindrances to “free market competition.”

Free Markets made Polis a millionaire, also, too. This Libertarian blood brother: Most of America’s health problems are self-inflicted by people eating and drinking too much. If everyone adopted a healthy lifestyle, we wouldn’t need government-sponsored health care, and everyone would live to be 90 to 100 years old. (John Mackey, CEO Whole Foods)
http://godsrbored.blogspot.com/2009/08/moron-par-excellence-whole-foods-ceo.html

Cut your eating and drinking in 1/2 and live longer. That there’s no empirical evidence to support this statement is also lost on these Serious People.

Welcome !

The rich will do even “better” tomorrow, when many of the rest of us will be truly desperate and willing to do … literally anything, including harming others in the same position we are in … simply to survive.

The humanity of the people of this nation will be sorely tested, it is far too early for any sanguinity regarding how that will play out.

The Neo-Feudalism the rich have in store for the rest of us requires a “softening” period, when scruples and morality are weighed against bare or even brute survival.

This is a boot-strap nation, by way of its myths, and the milk of human kindness may not run very deep.

Time will reveal, ultimately, what the people of this nation are made of.

That America has come to this “place” is not the result of chance or accident, it is by design.

That America is willing to try the souls of its “people” bodes ill for all who care about life, about humanity, about reason, about tolerance, and about undedrstanding.

The ruling classes are happy with “nasty, brutish, and short” for the rest of us, make no mistake.

(I know you understand all of this Leo, just a wee rant …)

DW

He ran away from the conversation.

What a fucking surprise. Thanks for correcting him. One of the most frustrating things for me has been that most people hear “unemployment extension” and they think it covers everybody. Out of sight, out of mind.

I have several questions:

Why doesn’t Obama work this hard with his own party to find solutions to these issues? He just continues to antagonize those who support him to gain few concessions from those that demonize him.

If these tax cuts/UI/everything else that are going to expire at the end of the year were to expire, then the Republican majority in the House in the next Congress would be on the hook to put together a package that addresses these issues, packages that would necessarily need to be centrist enough to be able to garner the 60 votes necessary in the Senate (unless of course the Senate Republicans decide now is the time to start with “up or down” votes). I cannot see Republicans being thrilled with having blood on their hands in the form of the people in line at food banks, new spikes in foreclosure rates, etc. that will accompany the loss of UI and the return to the previous tax rates. Make the new majority stand up on the House floor to demand and defend borrowing $700 billion from the Chinese for the direct benefit for the super-rich, sure the Tea Party base will be behind that! In a way I think that the R’s way over-played their hand, and if forced into writing legislation to address these issues then they may be confronted by an angry voting base. Letting the tax cuts expire as they were designed could be very problematic for the R’s indeed.

Senate Democrats could parlay the Republican desire for “up or down” votes in the next Congress into long-stalled confirmation “up or down” votes, and votes on other pieces of long-stalled legislation.

I really don’t think that the expiration of these tax rates/UI/etc. will be the economic Armageddon that the current narrative makes it out to be. As evidenced by the last 10 years, they have been budget busting, non-stimulative/non-job creating busts. And if I’m wrong, then the R’s can fix it, that’s what the last election was all about, right? Why should the Dems have to shoulder the burden alone, while the R’s make new campaign commercials out of Dem incompetence? Time for the R’s to carry the working class water, and if they don’t then the next election will have consequences just as this last one did, there are a lot more of us (non-super rich voters) than there are of them (super rich voters).

The foiled bomb plots is great for the continued Bush/Obama “be afraid, be very afraid” fear tactics. That message has been repeated so many times to our citizens now that we DO have a fearful citizenry which is one of the worst things for democracy and civil liberties.

Why Sweden, of all countries, is going along with and trying to prevent free speech seems beyond reasoning. Does anyone have the answer to that?

In a 2009 analysis, 261 (49%) of 535 members of Congress are millionaires vs. 1% of the general population. Is it any surprise that they don’t represent the interests of the general population?

Number of Millionaires in Congress

Yes, and Mitch McConnell said something similar at some point after the mid-term. Anyone who *thinks* that Obama “just couldn’t help it because of mean mean Agent Orange & BitchMitch” is NOT paying attention. But that IS the problem: too many citizens are complacent and low information and do NOT pay attention.

Jared Polis, whose net worth is somewhere between $97.4 million and $254.4 million.

C’mon Jane. Don’t be so cynical. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that he stands to profit handsomely from the legislation. /s

By the way, I want you to know that I am constantly amazed at your ability to appear on all manner of talking head shows, stay cool as a cucumber, and still manage to rhetorically eviscerate anyone who offers up the standard, inside-the-beltway bullshit. (Facts? Who knew?) I honestly don’t know how in the hell you can stay so calm in the face of these continuing assaults, but somehow you do it. It is truly impressive. Just wanted to say that…

Why Sweden, of all countries, is going along with and trying to prevent free speech seems beyond reasoning. Does anyone have the answer to that?

I’m no expert, but Sweden is not the liberal socialist paradise that many of have conjectured in the past. It has a very rigid elitist hierarchy and deep roots of facism in some segments of the population. There was a big Swedish Nazi party during WWII, with remnants of that still remaining.

Sweden, like many nations, is in thrall to the USA and will often do what we tell them to do (well: the CIA does the “telling”). Some Swedes have posted here confirming this, but I have no links. What I am posting is just what I have learned over the years.

Check it out further, if you like. There are links here at FDL to various Swedish sites. Don’t forget that the corporations are international & global now. Assange is threatening to leak the nefarious “doings” of the banksters…. they do NOT want that. these recent leaks about the US govt really are not that big of a deal. The next leaks are the biggies, imo.

So millionaire, Jared Polis, is *in favor* of extending the Bush tax cuts for HIMSELF and his fellow zillionaires?? Why, isn’t that special? Who would’ve guessed he’d be so greedy?? /s

These greed-heads don’t give a sh*t anymore; make no bones that they’re out to rip us all off for as much as they can. Citizens are complacent and can’t be bothered to stop watching junk tv or playing junk video games or wasting time on junk facebook to *notice* any of this… and that’s why they are now so bald-faced in their greedy gluttony. Take heed. It’s gonna get worse.

He ran away from the conversation.

Why am I not surprised? Maybe he ran out of cocktail weenies? Fuckin’ hack.

And welcome to you.

I’m pretty sure I owe you the beverage of your choice.

Obama is working with his own party…oh, wait…you didn’t think he was actually a Democrat, did you?

By the way, in case you run into Cons arguing that the poor don’t pay taxes, hit them upside the head with this. Also.

I’ve been running into that claim a lot lately. I’ve heard 53%,50%, 47%, 43% and just today, 40%. Never any citation though. I’m assuming it must be new “wisdom” from Rush, Beck or both.

badda-bing!

Thank you Shoto, always appreciated.

And why would anyone believe his SCOTUS choices would be any better than those he has already made to throw billions/trillions at his corporate daddies as well as the other rich?

I’ve run into it today from a Con who monitors my Tweets. Been giving him quite the education. (Smiles sweetly.)

I’ll bet you have. (winks knowingly)

Maybe the fascists, warmongers, and greedy will bring about the end of “democracy” around the world. I wonder how many advocates of “trickle down economics” realize they are bringing about their own economic destruction. Once the “bullies” win around the world, the destruction will never end. I don’t think it means the end of the earth, but, I do think it will mean billions of people living under hardship type circumstances (as many already are…it will just get by far much worse).

P.S. I visited Sweden in 1995 and spoke with many “average citizens” at that time whom I met on trains, at accommodations, etc. At that time, I didn’t meet even one person whom I would consider even remotely fascist, and I had numerous political type conversations with people. So, that is why this is “somewhat” surprising to me. However, things change AND as we have seen, the actions by a government or a few powerful and wealthy groups doesn’t always reflect that of a citizenry. Thanks for your comment, I will do more research on Sweden.

Atta girl, Jane…go get ‘em! Nice job. That dufus is a millionaire??? Who’da thunk it?

I am a constituent of Congressman Polis, just gave them a ring on the phone at the Boulder office. As soon as I mentioned the nature of the call (Tax Cuts), the lady taking my call immediately launched into a little speech about how Jared’s position was misreported by the press and that he is against the +$250k tax breaks. I would say by her monotone and businesslike reading of the report that she was getting a hell of a lot of calls on this issue. We then went on to talk (she was very nice actually) and I urged Congressman Polis to let everything expire rather than just “passing something.” I described myself as a contributer and active Democratic constituent who would be extremely displeased if Obama’s tax plan was passed as is (and was very doubtful it should be passed at all.) She reiterated that Polis’ position is no tax cuts for those over $250+, sounded like they were getting many calls like mine urging the expiration of the Bush tax cuts in total. She took my name and address to confirm constituency and wished me a pleasant afternoon.

So there you go, the calls are coming in and Polis at least is bended (or thinking of bending) to a flood of negative responses. Keep it up folks.

Good for you! Proactive!

I’m sure Jane is talking about the metal band from Finland. <grin>

Thanks for the report.

My sources were numerous people at the meeting, but at least he has the good sense to be publicly ashamed.

I am also a constituent and called and told them I was very disappointed.

The most interesting thing I saw today was in USA Today finance page. Basically quoting a number of economists saying this deal will be a positive “game changer” for the economy.

Only a illogical or compromised person will quote this since I cannot back it with logical reasoning and they should state how it is a positive game changer logically.

If anybody knows, please list how below steps increase stimulative effect on the economy,
1. Reducing Estate Taxes.
2. Reducing Savings of American People in Social Security Trust. Smart Twist. If one cannot reduce social security impact on the economy reduce the savings pot size so that it can be knocked over in the future.
AHIP & Pharma will scoop up whatever 2% social security savings reduction in no time leaving the people in worse position. So do not expect to see any take-home money there but left worse than before with less savings.
3. Tax Cuts for millionaries and billionaries after the 3 Trillion plus liability by FED, Treasury & Fanni Mae & Freddie Mac.

If I look at institutions only congress does stimulative spending on the Economy with oft MSM derided Earmarks. Even if it is a bridge to nowhere it is still money spent on American land, American Projects built with American labor. That is why MSM complains about it.

Founding Fathers gave the congress slight edge among 3 branches with the power of purse. They just need to let all these tax cuts expire and use the increased revenues to do stimulative spending in their constituencies and create jobs.

turns out the report was false
http://polis.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=217215

Polis Statement on Caucus Tax Cut Vote

Washington, Dec 9 – Congressman Jared Polis (D-CO) joined a near unanimous House Democratic Caucus today in voting to prevent President Obama’s tax package from coming to the House floor for a vote in its current form.

“I voted with my colleagues today to block the tax deal from coming to the floor because there is still time to broker a better deal for working families. I have always supported middle class tax cuts and I voted just last week to permanently extend tax cuts for those who make $250,000 or less and to let tax cuts for the wealthiest 2 percent expire. Hopefully, this resolution will buy us some time to put our heads together and bang out a deal that better protects working families with provisions like a longer unemployment insurance extension and tax credits for green jobs and renewable energy.”

Thank you for supporting the 99ers. I am a 99er in Colorado. I have literally begged Polis for help – and this is what he does?

The provisions related to the estate tax in the President’s ‘deal’ are outlandish and provide NO economic return. Conversely, according to the government’s own economists, giving 8 million unemployed workers money which they will spend immediately, provides the absolute best ROI – return on investment; a fundamental theory of finance. Giving money to 8 million unemployed workers will create demand for goods and services; a fundamental theory of economic growth.

Put another way: rich dead people get more out of this deal than the long-term unemployed are getting. The long-term unemployed are getting nothing out of this deal.

Dnver Unemployment Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/unemployment-in-denver/open-letter-to-my-congressional-representatives-senator-reid-and-speaker-pelosi