Tweet
Jim DeMint (R-SC) tells Hugh Hewitt he will not vote for cloture on the Obama-McConnell tax cut deal:
HH: Do you think a left-right coalition exists in either the Senate or the House to defeat the deal?
JD: Well, I was kind of holding my fire to let the liberals blast this thing first. I have a feeling that, I don’t know if it’s pretense or whatever, but a lot of the liberals are upset that the President is not raising taxes on upper income and small businesses. So I was going to try to see if the liberals might go after it first. But it does appear to me that there are going to be problems on the left and the right with this bill.
HH: Now is there a substantial number of Republican Senators who agree with you, Jim DeMint?
JD: I’m not sure yet. I mean, there are a lot of people advocating for it, saying this is the best that we can get. But I’ve talked to a number of the conservatives today who have grave concerns. I know a lot of them won’t vote for it unless it’s paid for. I don’t think the Democrats are going to cut spending enough to pay for this, because it’s getting close to $200 billion dollars in more deficit spending. So I think there’s going to be a lot of fallout on the Republican side, and I suspect even on the Democrat side, because they don’t want, I mean, they want taxes to go up, just not for their constituents.
Bernie Sanders has also said he will filibuster the deal.
The New York Times reports that Joe Biden headed to the Hill today, but “failed to convince many of his old Senate colleagues to line up behind the plan at a tense lunch meeting.”
Mitch McConnell called the plan “essentially final” and predicted that a “vast majority” of Senate Republicans will back it.
On the House side Michele Bachmann, Chairwoman of the Tea Party Caucus, has said that GOP members of the House could oppose the plan.
158 Comments
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
DeMint is against it for all the wrong reasons, but dammit, somebody needs to shake up this heinous Obama-Repub alliance.
I don’t think they’ll have trouble coming up with the votes in the Senate. They need about 25 Dems.
The following either will vote yes or are “open to voting yes”: Reid, Durbin, Lieberman, Feinstein, Baucus, Tester, Carper, Coons, Conrad, Hagan, Johnson, Lincoln, Bayh, Bennet, Pryor, Bad Nelson, Bill Nelson, Wyden, Warner, Webb, Kerry, Dorgan, Specter, Casey, Cardin, Mikulski, Brown, Manchin, Murray, Stabenow, McCaskill, Landrieu (reportedly, despite her protestations to the contrary).
And then you have Jello Jay and party hacks like Inouye, Schumer, and Leahy (despite his protestations to the contrary). Politico thinks Gillibrand and Boxer are potential yes votes too.
So clearly they will have no trouble getting this passed in the Senate. The House is more difficult, but they can wait until January if necessary. House Dems have no real leverage here.
They’ll make a big noise and vote for it anyway. The fix is in.
It’s in the Rs interest for this to fail now — and be blamed on the Ds. Everything the Rs want they can get next year — all the tax relief, which they wanted in the first place.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they pull a real fast one on Obama.
But how do the R’s write a whole new tax bill next year, and get it past the Senate, with tax cuts for the rich? Isn’t this about as good as it gets for them, hence their mostly calm and approving tone?
I mean, if Demint and Bachmann are what we’re counting on…
Obama pulled a fast one on himself…unless it was all kabuki.
If it wasn’t, he looks really stupid for lecturing congress when he practically hasn’t shown his face there for the last 2 years.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m insulted that this guy throws rags and call them gold nuggets. Saying that everything he’s promised, he;s accomplished must be in his own mind, because the American people sure aren’t seeing it.
And we’ll lose SS on this, bet on it, but the old and disabled will feel all warm and fuzzy thinking about the rich not suffering.
People keep mentioning Obama is arrogant. I think this proves it.
Hey, I certainly don’t have all the answers. But if the Rs are playing the long game — 2012 — nothing would be better than to find a way to amplify Obama’s trouble with his own base.
Among other things that O let the Republicans stuff into this monstrosity
is something that may very well blow up the municipal bond market
and lead to massive layoffs of state and local employees.
How’s that for a stimulative effect?
OT. Americans have been brainwashed into rolling over for the corporations, but brainwashing hasn’t been so successful abroad.
MasterCard site partially frozen by hackers in WikiLeaks ‘revenge’
I agree.
Webb is up for re election in 2012. It should be made clear that if he votes yes that there will be consequences. He only won his first election by a little over 2000 votes and the state is trending red so he should need all the help he could get.
Any others that we might be able to twist arms on?
Sure, but that happens anyway. They really have to be enjoying the outrage on the left. But they’ll get even more bang for that buck by voting for this piece of shit — permanently enshrining Obama’s capitulation and his side’s humiliation. (Undeserved humiliation since it wasn’t like the base had a say in any of this.)
Republicans win either way. I don’t see how they gain anything by voting it down. Massive own-goal for the Democrats.
Jim Demint governs the way he campaigns. Unusual for the political idiots. Go Jim.
Whooo…that’s harsh! Thanks for the link
The sky is falling. Apparently the GOP can have minority in both parts of Congress and effectively get what they want but Democrats even with a majority in the Senate are powerless, powerless I tell you without a 100 seat plurality. Sigh.
It’s time to get back to making a “hit” list and starting to primary people if they can’t be effective legislators.
In some Rs’ minds, this is giving Obama a victory. So, even though they get a lot of goodies, there are two problems here: first, it blows a $900 billion dollar hole in the deficit — because it’s not paid for; second, it may in fact be “stimulative” and bring the economy around — to Obama’s benefit in 2012.
If I were an R, I would have mixed feelings about this.
See my effort at #16
“…he looks really stupid lecturing congress when he practically hasn’t shown his face there for the last 2 years.”
If Obama were a general, he would skip the part about leading his troops and move directly to negotiating a surrender with the enemy.
Interesting
Spot on!
Heh
Deficits don’t matter. So sayeth Darth Cheney.
Then again they need to worry because the tea partiers may very well put their head on a pike if they vote for it. Gotta love that.
what on earth could anyone on the right find wrong with this bill?
it will undermine social security, it will destroy the democratic party, it will reduce the estate tax, it will do everything they could possibly hope
I say he’s just blowing smoke to get even more concessions
bty
went to kennedy today, I have a hip replacement so I set off the magnetometer
they have NOT hooked up the porno scanner, and the grope was not invasive at all
I know, really. We need at least 75 seats in the Senate to get anything done, along with 3/4 of the house and the WH. Even then, we simply have to accept that a pony isn’t under the tree and the perfect is the enemy of the blah blah blah.
It would be funnier, if…
I believe the health care reform fiasco is the baseline for all that has followed and is yet to come.
So let me see if I understand DeMint correctly:
He wants to squeeze the American people to death by making us pay right now for these totally irresponsible tax cuts for the ridiculously wealthy?
Seems like he wants to reduce the American people to slavery and start cracking the whip right away…
In my house, Mr. DeMint, when we want some totally unnecessary and ridiculously expensive thing that we can’t pay for – or even afford to put on a credit card – we just don’t get it.
I remember a time when that sentence would have seemed strange…
Er, Demint wants to cut the military and use the stimulus to fund it. Two good things. Wake up.
No one posting or lurking at FDL should have an open Amazon or PayPal account. Books can be purchased through other vendors, and ther means of payment can be made outside of PayPal.
Visa and MasterCard acconts are harder to dispense with, especially for those who travel. If you are able to dispense with them, do so. Other establishments will be happy to accept your business.
Thanks for the clarification. I sometimes have to pop in and out and don’t have time to get all the nuance. I did start the comment by saying that I needed to see if I was reading him right!
Keep in mind, folks, that the Rs want the WH back more than they want all the stuff in this “deal.” From their vantage point, the question is, does the “deal” surviving and becoming law increase or decrease our chances in 2012?
To wit, if it revives the economy, is it worth it?
All I saw was this:
DeMint wanting to cut military spending doesn’t seem too prominent in this post. Do you have a link?
I am confused. Every year the Social Security Administration sends me a statement calculating the amount of my future benefits based upon the amounts of my past contributions.
If withholding contributions are reduced by 2%, won’t future benefits be reduced?
Will the only long-term beneficiaries of the proposed 2% reduction be high income earners who already qualify for maximum benefits?
He mainly wants Obama to lose in 2012.
That was my thought when I finally saw Obama come unglued yesterday (I was in a conference during the live meltdown) — the GOP could drive this guy straight over the edge by pulling the plug. And the way to do it would be to start a “principled revolt” (cough) of the “deficit hawks” like DeMint.
It may just be posturing. But the president signaled to the entire world yesterday he’s on the edge. I hope it’s the Democrats who exert some discipline and draw the line and let him know he can’t get away with this kind of embarrassing capitulation, but they will probably follow him on another death march.
won’t go through the back scatter since just about everyone in my family came down with cancer, was prepared for the grope but the just pat me down
which it was someone I was attracted to though
I can’t believe how arrogant Obama came off in the press conference. Anyone catch Olberman’s comment last night?
He saves his anger for liberals? For not accepting this crap? Isn’t this the man who said a couple of months ago to the Netroots: “keep holding my feet to the fire?”
Sounds like he didn’t even run this by the Dems and they’re pissed. Is there any chance the Dems grow a spine — in either house — and kill this thing?
it’s really incredible, in one breath they claim ss is not solvent, in the next breath they actually take money from it
they are doing whatever possible to deconstruct that program, they want elderly dying in the streets, they want families tied to treating their parents so they cannot save
this is getting too scary to think about
I think we sum up O in this quote, ” you were the most powerful man in England (US) and could have been greater still, yet you had not the courage to be loyal, only the conviction of your own vanity” ( Walingham to the Duke of Northfolk (sp), Movie : Elizabeth)
he’s got a spine, this is the bill he’s wanted since they got to him before he was elected
Hacker attacks reported to Swedish police
http://www.thelocal.se/30698/20101208/
I’m sure he’ll start with telling the soldiers that we all need to make sacrifices and they’ll have to pay for some of their health care as well as take a pay freeze. I’ve never met a Republican that didn’t insist we needed bright shiny new toys and the means to blow up the world 800 times over. It’s always about the “little folk” making sacrificies. It must be in the fine print of the GOP contract or summpin’
see all much much later, off for the day
If the Democratic wing of the Corporatist Party fail to draw the line, we’ll need a Who’s Who list of everyone who went along with this pos.
thanks for that . wow. I still have difficulty following a lot of the financial reporting – that one’s fairly easy to grasp, jeebus
there was a diary here several months back on a coming Muni Bonds crash – need to re read in light of what Yves is reporting.
I rarely don the tinfoil publicly, but it’s one of those stories that make me think a giant crash is coming and MOTU’s and elites like Obama know it. MOTU’s (with his help) are squirreling away as much as they can, and he’s accomodating them because he knows he wont be there after 2012
on edit: should have added – because he knows there wont be a “there” in 2012
Yes. What if the plan all along was to pressure Obama into a “deal” that nearly all of his base would reject, only for the “deal” to be rejected on bipartisan grounds? (I think that’s why you’re seeing the split between MY and Ezra. MY may sense it’s all a trap.)
KO rocked last night!!!
he said some very powerful stuff
I loved the part about how a SENIOR WH offcial contacted him, and basically said the LEFT doesn’t read and understand how great this tax bill is? Keith of course blasted the WH into irrelevant land last night.
(this confirms that OBAMA considers the left his enemy, thus the reasons he punches the left every chance he gets)
but it was interesting to see how much power the WH has over Lawrence O’Donnell, Chris Matthews, and Ezra Klein.
Lawrence should have told Jane and Adam, he had been contacted by the WH, and had orders to defend OBAMA crappy tax bill. (Lawrence was reaching for straws last night! it was hillarious TV)
I would have asked Lawrence this simple question how much do you love NAFTA? what did it do for the poor? because the current con man in the WH name Obama just done a KOREA CHINA NAFTA trade deal, is this going to help the poor?
Lawrence we know you love the poor. :)
Rachel and KO rocked last night
Rachel said it best, the OBAMA WH is heading to irrelvant land, people are already laughing at them.
Why do we pay the likes of Blackwater Xe? Don’t we have the best military in the world? Seems like we can save a ton of money just cutting off the mercenaries.
These are not the droids you are looking for. ;)
(or shorter answer for the next year it would the government will make up the shortfall by cramming the treasury with more IOUs and then whining that we need to cut, cut, cut in the future because those IOUs affect the almighty deficit.)
It never works out that way.
This has been what’s bothering me, Jane. Is he on the edge or is it just convincing acting? As in, “the Republicans are forcing me to do this, you gotta believe me, I’m a desperate man who’s doing his best to help you!” In other words, a performance designed to justify his surrender to those who don’t pay a great deal of attention to politics, but who can be counted on to feel sorry for what they call “our president”.
No. 1 priority.
The only problem is that they’re both part of the same Corporatist Party.
This is all so much kabuki bullshit.
I think Obama’s going to have to resign at some point, on grounds of sheer embarrassing ridiculousness.
Not if that guy hosting “The Last Word” last night was any indication. The only people he seemed interested in disciplining was our side.
Private contractors are the wave of the future…so sayeth the GOP
(and THEY get to call the shots no matter what, minority, majority, six and one half dozen or the other.)
Don’t get me wrong I completely agree with you. Bring me back to the good ol’ days where you had public servants and accountability. However, the whole entire point of BOTH parties at this point seems to be to loot and pillage and then whine about how hard it is for them.
“I’m still one of you, as my frustration with you as I’m working to help you proves.”
The only problem is that he’s not working to help the American people at all. It’s clear now to everyone that he doesn’t want to help the American people.
Listen to Ron Paul and his son. Listen to Demint. They want the military home. Wake up. The tea parties and the progressives agree on some issues. Stop demonizing them and maybe together the country can be saved.
Reputed to have a good legal mind, Pres. Obama must see that the current Democratic majority in the House could pass a non-regressive tax bill without compromising, and extend unemployment benefits for two years, and in the Senate Harry Reid can table the bills until Jan. 3, 2011, when the 112th Senate is sworn in. At that point, the Senate’s Democratic majority can take up that bill and any others that they want, and ignore the Republicans altogether. All they have to do to accomplish this is refuse to reinstate the Filibuster rule, on Jan. 3, when the new Senate’s Democratic majority draws up the official rules for the Senate in the 112th Congress.
They’ve learned the trick of whining as they’re winning in order to get some more each and every time. And it always works because the Democrats understand their role in the kabuki all too well.
Remember, folks. The Rs have hundreds of folks across the country with near perfect SAT scores gaming all this shit out.
people are forgetting another huge problem facing OBAMA
23 Dem senators are up for re-election in 2012
most of these senators can’t afford to follow OBAMA on to many death marches.
I think some of these senators just realized that if the dems stay home in 2012, like OBAMA they will be un-employed.
self preservation is going to sweep DC shortly
plus there is the big problem call 9% un-employment which will still be around in 2012
why is EZRA KLEIN on TV? WHY? Mr the STIMULUS the right SIZE. WHY?
has any president ever got re-elected with 9% to 10% un-employment? No
Obama does seem unbalanced. Strange how he brought up the public option in his rant, for instance. He’s not feeling love for his “historic” “landmark” bill, and he’s hurt! Even made the “sliver” gesture with his hand. KO was right ON to blast the WH for this kind of carping.
Keep in mind that for individuals making less than $20,000 and families making less than $40,000, taxes are going UP under this plan. That’s not good enough for DeMint. Oh no. The poor need to sacrifice more. He’s got the right position but for all of the wrong reasons.
It was not a meltdown.
It was a calculated political act. And, as political theatre, it was reasonably well done.
Is it where wisdom lies? The early reviews are mixed.
I agree with you
the tea party can be of great use to progressives.
in some cases
Really? Uh your mistaken. Sarah Palin, Tea Party Princess extraordinaire and Barack Obama are on the same page on Afghanistan.
The Tea Party is split right down the middle on the issue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thomas-de-zengotita/tea-party-darlings-split_b_635240.html
I don’t consider it demonizing to state facts.
Kudos to you btw Jane. You made Lawrence O’Donnell reveal how very egotistical and wrong he is. Wonderful appearance.
Obama did inherit the shitpile left behind by Cheney and his muppet. Not a happy situation to face. And yet! Nothing to show for, thus far, but more shit.
still waiting to take off, still have some tubes
I think they might have realized the 0 is the best thing for them
this will be apparent if they run palin for pres, it means they do not want to win the office
then if she pulls it off they would have lost nothing
so that’s what we look out for, if they run palin they want obama’s second term
on the other hand if we primary obama and it looks like he’s going to lose then they can’t run palin
Ah yes! The old eleventyseven dimensional chess game. We are such comparative mental gnats to Mr. Obama…
One half believes the shit they’re shoveling. The other half doesn’t.
Do you read dKos at all?
Jane Hamsher -
am nominating you for an Emmy – Best Quietly Bemused Performance by a Guest – how in the world did you sustain that for so long ?!?
and what a shame your ‘Used as human shields’ comment came at the end – why, it’s almost as if you were provoking ol Lawrence to see how far over the edge he could go :D
There are some good people being manipulated by people of power within the Tea Party. However, many of these people will not listen to reason. It’s like trying to reason with a brick wall. You explain socialism and then ask them to show you what exactly has been passed that is socialist in nature and they still kneejerk insist that Obama is a socialist. It’s really, really sad.
Does anyone still buy into that?
Ezra Klein?
Obama biggest fear is that everyone, will soon realize he is un-electable in 2012.
thus opening the door for a true progressive to primary him and easily beat him.
the BIG DEM DONORS have already bailed on OBAMA
Obama is FURIOUS at the LEFT for calling HIM out on HIS CON games. (put simply MR. FIRED UP! is FIRED UP! )
money is the blood of politics in the USA, without it, one dies quickly.
KO said it last night OBAMA has loss his liberal base. (Clinton could win as Republican Lite, OBAMA has no chance)
yes
I was at the park and the people there who really worked hard for him still believe he is playing his hand immaculately
it’s scary stuff
I read widely.
The Rs are playing chess. Obama is playing battle ball — with no balls.
Do you know what the plus signs (+) mean at dKos?
will probably get blacked out in a minute or two, hope everyone has a great day, see all much later
I hear you.
All I am saying, if the tea party wants to audit fed, more power to them.
stuff like that.
Progressive should not jump in bed with the tea party, we should hang out in the living room, and push them every now and then toward issues we care about.
The huff post does not represent the tea party. The tea party is against spending. The tea party has elected Palin to nothing. Several tea candidates that won, ran against the massive military spending.
True that. Maybe if he could forge another internet boom or something in time for the election.
Up until last night I’d have said that Obama was too smug and self-satisfied in his bubble. But the cracks were showing; he knows it ain’t working.
No one ever went broke or became unpopular underestimating the embarrassing ridiculousness, sheer ignorance, infantilism, bad taste, or destructive cheap sentimentalism of the American public.
Obama’s got no balls?
I think he’s playing chess with the Republicans. It makes sense once you realize that he’s playing to help them win.
Apparently oldgold does.
Do you know what the plus signs (+) mean at dKos?
Comments are running 30 to 1 against the deal and Obama.
Clinton was smart enough to know when to hold em and when to fold em’. I’m not even sure Obama is aware of where he put the darn cards.
That’s an actual LOL on an otherwise dreary morning.
good one
Clearly, cwaltz, you forget the great “sacrifice” our public servants make to serve us. They constantly remind us how much more money they could be making in the “private sector”.
Speaking of “private”, someone, yesterday, right here, on FDL, said that money was “private property” so I guess we owe the rich some appreciation for allowing us to make some small use of their property, especially if the poor rich are to be made “whipping boyz” for the failed “socialist experiments” of America’s last sixty years …
Should there be doubt in any one’s mind … the preceding is pure and unadulterated sanctimonious bull shit, which seems to be all the “rage”, this season, this winter of our discontent.
DW
I guess the Kossacks waking up late is better than never.
WOW! everyone saw MR. COOL, LOSE his COOL yesterday.
I wish, I could have been a fly on the WALL when KO and RACHEL rip into OBAMA last nite. :)
Obama is not a happy camper today.
Not gonna happen. They care about three things. Less spending, less taxes and limited govt. If you come up with something that fits those three things, they will listen. They are demonized, but they are many. The fed, military spending and bailouts are on the table.
c and l had a poll whether to primary obama, it was 70% to 30% for last I looked
Were any of them named Lawrence O’Donnell? Smarmy yuppie looking guy you immediately want to punch?
I can’t believe people think he’s doing wonders for his re-election chances with this. Over at Huffpo I read a few comments saying that he’s sacrificing politics for the good of the people. As you might imagine it’s hard to drink coffee when vomit is rising in your throat. So I didn’t stick around to get a truly representative sampling.
and I am more than a little vexed that it took such a blatant cave to the Republicans and not his crimes against the Constitution and Geneva Convention – we have work to do
I would support Clinton again as an imperfect progressive who knows how to get things done. I don’t know what the fuck Obama is and have never been able to support him, except for a couple of months in ’09 after he got elected and it seemed like he might turn out alright after all (but that early impression of his infant presidency faded very fast).
What if the “principled” Rs say that the deal is okay — as long as it’s paid for?
What does Obama say?
not quite true
they care most about what their puppet masters tell them to care about
and those puppeteers are the kock brothers
the tea party will do the bidding of that family of sociopaths
KO was awesome, no punches pulled there.
ok, got to say it
it was all the black people, they are going to have a really hard time thinking obama is this bad
That part is very very easy. The Senate will have fewer Democrats in it, and those Democrats who remain in the Senate are the same ones who have voted yes on every crap sandwich so far. I don’t expect the current Senate Democrats will grow a spine next year.
Here’s another way to put it: The Rs have gotten everything they wanted, even while Democrats controlled Congress and the White House. Next year, when the Rs control the House, it will be even easier for them to get everything they want.
The same bluedog Dems will control the Senate, the same bluedog will be in the Oval Office, but the House of Representitives will be under the control of conservatives.
It will be very easy for the Republicans to continue ruling the government.
I’m aware Huff post doesn’t represent the tea party. However, Sarah Palin does. She supports Afghanistan and Iraq.
what a surprise. the conservatives are going to play good cop bad cop
I hear you.
Ron Paul the father of the tea party is a thorn in the side of BLUE BLOOD GOPERS.
I want to see RON mess with the HOLY GRAIL of the GOP, the FED.
:)
It’s not the time to pull punches…
Keith, Bravo! Encore! Encore!
Yes, FDR was re-elected 2 times with unemployment exceeding 10%.
After 8 years of the New Deal, in 1940 the unemployment rate was approximately 15%.
http://www.fasttrackteaching.com/Charts7_New_Deal_Unemployment.html
There have been a few high profile defections among black former supporters, but I haven’t seen any polling. My own read from talking to people matches yours somewhat, though it falls more into the category of, “I wish he’s fight back more but I still support him.”
is OBAMA like FDR? No
but thinks for the info :)
comparing OBAMA to FDR is like comparing JIMMY CLAUSEN to TOM BRADY.
I am just saying.
The private sector ain’t doing so well these days. They’ve seen their health care eroded. They’ve seen the concept of retirement practically disappear before their very eyes. Oh and they fear that if they grumble they might be next on the chopping block and join the 10% out of work.
No the GOP loves the idea of private contractors for a reason. Government employees are largely union and get decent benefits. Benefits that cost money. Money that the GOP would just as soon never leave the pockets of the top 1%.
Feudalism at it’s finest.
The fed was started by the progressives. The audit the fed bill is stuck on Barney Franks desk. Come January, it will be on the GOP desk. Let us see what happens. The fed has spent 9 trillion to bail out banks. Not good. Let them fail. Period. Bring the troops home. Entitlements have to be looked at.
Our new Dark Age, cwaltz.
The Divine Right of Money.
DW
Don’t you mean bad cop, worse cop? ;)
They’re figuring they might be able to get more than Obama, Mr Transparency, gave away behind closed doors.
The corporate and military “entitlements”?
Them’s sacred cows, steve, and off limits for consideration or discussion, plus it’s all “covered” by our new, improved, Security State.
As well, them’s state secrets and the people can’t be allowed to know how much or to whom … or the bad guys would know too …
DW
Since DDOS attacks are illegal and have been categorized as a form of cyber terrorism, the unseen eyes that are undoubtedly watching this blog could construe the words “thank you Anonymous” as aiding and abetting criminals.
That’s good news
No comparison
Jimmy Clausen(not THEE Jimmy CLAUSEN
That is not true. I have never bought into the multi-dimensional chess metaphor.
My point is straight forward. That was not a spontaneous meltdown. Rather, it was a calculated political act. In terms of political theatre, it was well done. As to its wisdom, I could argue it round or flat.
Yep. That they are. They seem to be off limits. If the tea party and the progressives could come together on military and bailouts, why not try? Americans never agree on everything, and never will. Two important issues like the bailouts and military spending, progressives and the tea party agree. This should be used against those in D.C.
There is more widspread oppostion to the wars, across the political spectrum (why even oldgold concurs) today, in this nation, than ever there was toward Vietnam.
But it matters little, and is not generally recognized because the “people’s” so-called “Representatives”, in both House and Senate, profit as well as the new mercenary or “Contractor” class and the “security” bandwagon cowboys from the “New World Order” …
DW
Yep. What is shocking is how the wars played little role in the last election. Trust me, I am not a dove. But reality is we can not afford them. The best way to get the message out is the spending. The tea parties will listen to spending. The progressives will listen for the same reason. Powerful message.
Actually they’ve been kicking around military health care for awhile.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/08/14/1301111/higher-health-premiums-on-gates.html
Any “cuts” will come out of retirees hides. I can almost guarantee it.
We have been the target of triangulation. We must return the favor.
The angle to use if progressives truly want to stop this “compromise” is to throw some red meat to the tea party (not necessarily the Paul/Libertarian TP, but the DeMint/FoxNews TP).
Riled them up against the compromise, thus forcing the Republicans to either 1) do what the Tea Party wants and vote against the compromise, thereby helping us stop it; or 2) indirectly do what the Tea Party says by demanding more concessions, thereby giving more room for Democrats to kill the deal and thus helping us stop it; or 3) buck the Tea Party, pissing them off royally, thereby helping us in 2012.
Right now, it looks like DeMint is testing option 2, demanding more concessions; and he’ll easily get them from the bluedog in the White House. DeMint is trying out the “unpaid for” message as the reason for his demands.
Define military spending before saying we agree.
Good morning, Jane. This is turning into a donneybrooke (sp?). Me likey!
Thank you for covering rightwing radio for us to catch that DeMint scoop. I’m glad to see the firepups are already taking names and planning to kick butt. I gotta run out before the windchill drops back down to the teensy teens, but I’ll be back by lunchtime. Biden will have little to no traction now that NYT outed him as Obama’s back-channel to McConnell. In fact, Biden was instrumental in giving away the store on the estate tax without telling anyone else what he was doing. You heard O’Donnell last night claim Max Baucus had a lot to do with the WH deal, but I’ll bet my next tax refund ($17) that Baucus did not agree to the 20% estate tax bonuses for the uber-wealthy, at least not estate tax cuts that add directly to the deficit.
Since sociopaths don’t really HAVE emotions, I strongly suspect it an act.
Even Landrieu is against this! I really don’t think it’ll go thru…to crazy even for America at this point.
The only good thing about it is that finally some fo the bots have lost faith.
I don’t know how that helps US , tho
I’d exercise caution. The guy in the WH might go ahead and see your bluff and “pay” for the UI. 11th dimensional chess is not a game I recommend. Let Demint and the tea party argue their own case. The left should concentrate on pushing from the left, not the right.
Yes, health care for the enlisted class in the military is negotiable, but the “mission”, the “treasure”, and bases are not.
The purpose of America’s military is NOT “defense” it is hegemony … total control of the world and as many economies as possible.
Power and money.
What two things do those who would be politicians most crave?
Birds of a feather, sociopathically speaking.
DW
Very apt! I like it!
Did you forget that Obama will still have a veto pen after January? He can stop anything he chooses and there is nothing the Republican House will be able to do about it. That’s why the Republicans are being so quiet. It’s this deal now, or no deal next year, plus Obama can blame them for being terrorists and raising taxes on middle class voters.
Military spending should be reduced 50%. Sorting out the details will take more than a post.
Hi, bmull. Thank you for this early legwork. Are you basing your whip count on some item in Politico? I always mute Politico, so I have not heard their vote count.
I have to say I am doubtful about Cardin and Mikulski. I have been calling and faxing them for two days, their staff is taking all the calls and making detailed notes, Mikulski’s staff told me last night after 5 pm on Tuesday she needed more time to announce her position since the deal had just been announced Monday evening. (This despite the two dozen House members, now over 30, who had already announced their opposition in Welch’s letter as of Tuesday morning.) Cardin’s staff was also quite defensive but did not use the excuse Mikulski’s did. So I reported both of them as “taking no position” as of 8 pm last night.
Shorter version, I don’t want to give Demint more power in the debate. Give a Republican an inch and they take a mile.
This is true. My DFA affiliate does its canvassing and GOTV work in Northern Virginia, I can promise you those middle-class developments (full of federal employees) are gonna be deeply unhappy about their frozen pay and their unemployed neighbors and the rampant foreclosures all over Fairfax County and Prince William County next year. They will be asking Webb a lotta discomfiting questions about why he paid off the ultra-rich and let the Fed bail out all the thieving banks and fatcat corporations like GE, Caterpillar, Harley-Davidson, PIMCO (and fucking Verizon according to local press), and to top off the insults he voted to let all the enormous estates in Loudoun County (horse & fox-hunt country) pay 20% less on their estate taxes.
The devil is in the details. I spent 11 years in a uniform so I know all about attention to detail.
There are definitely areas to cut in the military. However, where I would start is from the position the military takes every September that they need to spend every single cent so that their budget doesn’t get cut. Additionally it would help if we didn’t need to spend money so that Officer’s have crap to put on their fitrep.(Ask me about a rotating shelf system that cost the Navy millions that got shelved because the new guy liked Patient delivery pods.)
However, I am not open to cutting military benefits such as health care. You don’t send a guy over to other countries asking him to put his life on the line for peanuts(and yes base pay is peanuts) and expect him to cover the cost of his family’s health care.
I’vew always opposed Iraq and opposed this second jaunt into Afghanistan so I’m hunky dory with those two hot spots being out of the budgetary picture.
Assholes are sometimes useful. Way to go Jimmy Demented.
Well, perhaps this will cheer you a bit. A view to what at least SOME of those “young folks” who came out to vote for Obama are thinking — and it’s not good for him.
http://my.firedoglake.com/mauimom/2010/12/07/message-to-obama-no-you-cant/
If you have ideas about how to promote this, please comment.
Perhaps I’m wrong, but I believe the 2% cut will be financed by the treasury and paid into the trust fund by general revenues (read: treasury notes).
I’ll see you one Fed audit and raise you a DCAA audit. How many times has the federal audit failed because the DoD can’t get it’s proverbial ducks in a row? That being said the fact that millions of dollars were lost over in the form of equipment ought not to be taken out of the hides of those that serve.
Gotta include troops in Germany and Japan coming home. Like you, I do not support any cuts to the pay or benefits to our soldiers Iraq and Afghanistan must end. I served in Iraq. I am no dove. When someone like me comes around to stopping 50% of military spending, anyone can.
Japan will be happy that your giving them back the base. :)
perris, you kept saying you had to leave, and I do, too. But maybe you are still here (or I’ll TTYL at lunch time) to catch this: ask some black voters who are federal govt employees how hard they are gonna work for Obama’s re-election and how much they are gonna donate to Dems now that Obama is trying to freeze their pay.
And just how much does that damn “embassy” in Baghdad cost?
And military bases?
Jeeze, if someone really WANTED to cut the military budget, there are PLENTY of places, ones that wouldn’t “endanger our security.”
I wasn’t talking about pushing from the right. I was talking about pushing upon the right in order to achieve a shared goal.
If progressives must not work with a group if that group isn’t on the left, then progressives will never get anywhere.
ReThug jerks like DeMint & Bachmann predictably rattle their sabres because they “have to” in order to *please* their brainwashed base. ReThugs like DeMint & Bachmann are engaging in the Kabuki show masquerading as “upset” that “communist” Obama is going to “do” something, anything. They have to pretend to be upset with Obama, even when, clearly this capitulation is EXACTLY what these corporatist hack shills want.
Booooogus.
The ReTHUGS will whine & complain because they, at least, pander to their constituents, as opposed to bashing them like Obama bashes his constituents.
If ReTHUGS have anything to do with it, this will pass. And then jerkwadz like DeMint & Bachmann will take some kind of weird credit for it that will continue to fool their idiotic constituents.
Being reliant on other constituencies to achieve a goal is not good. You don’t hear the right saying we need to appeal to liberals to achieve our goals do you?
When George Washington was told to attack France , he said these resounding words. We are neutral unless attacked.
You can disagree, but it is a principled position that taxes do not need to be raised on anyone and the national debt also needs to be reduced via harsh spending cuts. We’re tired of being mis-labeled: the press calls us hypocrites, Obama suggests all we want to do is lower taxes on the rich. But what we really want to do is shrink government. http://bit.ly/fFjXYS
There is no longer any such thing as Republicans vs. Democrats. Anybody still playing at partisan politics is a fool. The Dems and Repubs are Fascists and if you are willing to choose between them you are a Fascist also.
he is the WHINIEST tit i have ever seen take the national political stage. Be a man BO! Take responsibility for SOME f-ing thing. We all know “the president cant do everything”, but can this president do ANYTHING? jeeezis
Obama thinks he IS a general, just like Clinton did. A 5 star button pusher.
Good thing there’s a Republican willing to filibuster it. At this point, they are the only party with the capability to do anything.
Because a Democratic or Independent trying to filibuster would be completely ignored.
My sentiments exactly.
Thanks for the Link! Great article and comments, especially Jersey Machievelli says:
December 7, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Your article says next to nothing and is very light on any facts. Where do you propose to start “drastically cutting,” and why.
Do you propose to immediately END the wars in Iraq & Afganistan and immediately cut the Pentagon’s budget *drastically.* If no, why not?
I keep seeing these same vapid rightwing “talking points” at various blogs, including this one. Almost to a person, not one of you “drastically shrink the govt” types has any notion to stop the wars. So it does not compute. Please go back to the drawing board and be much more specific.
A Demint-Sanders alliance is no weirder than a Grayson-Paul hook up and look what they accomplished. This is what Jenk talks about all the time.