Y’know, a DEMOCRAT could have proposed this legislation.

I might not like Ron at all or his son but yes I agree except when he says it may well be dangerous to our health there is no might about radiation being hazardous to our health.
Imagine waiting in line as 50 people get scanned does he think that radiation just hits the person and does not travel any further?
How far does it travel at 20 feet away do you get a 1/4 dose of the full screening?
Stop being PC Ron tell it like it is!

You mean like Senator Claire McCaskill?

Any Pups planning to fly have access to a geiger counter? Standing in line waiting to be scanned I wonder what the readings would be at 20 ft away at 10 feet away?
I wonder how much the security people get exposed to all day?

Imagine 8 hours a day 40 hours a week next to a low power radiation device with no lead apron I assume like the Doctors got at Ron’s office when they do scans.
Ron knows better than to say it it may well be dangerous to our health go Left Ron get a Spine!
Either that or stop using the lead apron when you scan people at your medical practice.

Senator Claire McCaskill called the pat-downs “love pats.” The pilot’s union has described them as “sexual assault.”

Does she have an interest in this company or maybe a friend who has an interest in this company is doing or will do her a favor?

Most research suggests that dosage accumulates, the more dosage of high energy particles or photons, the greater the health risk. The immune system does offer some protection. The Nobel winning Curie’s paid the price for their high exposures to radiation, as did US soldiers deliberately exposed to atomic blasts. Airports are not the healthiest places anyway.

We are not safer, and we also know there are individuals who are making money off this. Michael Chertoff! I mean here’s the guy who was the head of the TSA selling the equipment. And the equipment’s questionable. We don’t even know if it works, and it may well be dangerous to our health.

AMEN!!!!!! Thank you, Ron Paul. I ASKED for someone to say this publically yesterday, and here it is!!! Indeed. So d*mn sick & tired of corporatist gov’t rip-offs from our one-party corporatist gov’t.

I have some issues with Ron Paul, but I thank him deeply for this.

Yeah: coulda-shoulda-woulda been a so-called “Democrat” who shoulda introduced this bill… but it was NOT a “Democrat” who did, which is all anyone needs to realize at this point. “Democrats” are nothing more than Republicans in drag. What a bunch of waste-of-time LOSERS.

May this bill become law. And may Chertoff’s company go to the graveyard to die & Chertoff get stuck with the bill (one can dream).

Not likely.

Sure seems likely that McCaskill has some “vested interest” in the Chertoff porno-deathray machines, doesn’t it? They are all corporatist grifters.

Senator Claire McCaskill called the pat-downs “love pats.” The pilot’s union has described them as “sexual assault.”

Pilots tend to be ex military they know what sexual assault is from the pilots captured behind enemies lines training and the Air Force training about war crimes.
Does Claire want voters to believe she likes the harsh stuff?
Whats her stand on family values?

Yesterday John Pistole, head of the TSA, lied to Congress

Isn’t there some sort of penalty for lying to Congress? Just sayin’…

And:

Senator Claire McCaskill called the pat-downs “love pats.”

I’m going to go ahead and self-moderate on that one.

I guess you will reach as far as you have to to criticize Ron Paul. He is probably the least PC politician in Washington.

Thanks now are there any government studies about how much radiation this machine throws off and what kind of radiation?
If not I want to know who ordered no government studies no researcher is not going to wonder about a question even a college earth science, and biology one credit each person knows enough to ask.
Someone killed further research I would like a name…I smell Mike and Senator Joe Lieberman.

If only we had a news media that reported stories this would be an easy scoop front page news with Pregnant Women and Cancer patients and Survivors who understandably might not want any radiation in their lives.
Never mind parents who want a child.

Read in todays paper that a scan is equal to about 3 minutes of background (natural) radiation that a traveler gets at 30,000 feet.

Get yer radiacs ratcheer

Isn’t there some sort of penalty for lying to Congress? Just sayin’…

Perjury and jail time can Ron force a vote to get this jerk what are the rules about accusing someone of perjury to Congress?

and what paper was that?

Not reaching far Radiation is bad not a might about it. Whats next gravity is a might? Have the laws of physics come into doubt?

Just google radiation 30,000 feet, it’s everywhere.

Pilots and others have also raised worries about radiation with the new scanners. Pistole says scientific studies — by the FDA, the National Institute for Standards and Technology, and Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab — show the technology is safe. The TSA says radiation you’re exposed to through the scanners is equivalent to the radiation you’re exposed to during two minutes of flight at 30,000 feet.
In other words, if you’re worried about radiation, flying is the much greater risk.
Some scientists, however, still say there is room for concern. As NPR reported back in May, some researchers believe the government has miscalculated the dose of radiation that X-ray scanners deliver to the skin.

((modnote: please provide links to quoted material.))

Thats one dose I assume now imagine being in an airport where the radiation is used all day making everything more radioactive.
At nuclear plants employees working in radiation leave their tools behind because they get radioactive.
Lets say 10 machines at O’hare airport working almost constantly 24 hours a day for a year.

That’s what you have to admire in both Ron Paul and Jane Hamsher: integrity of their views! Neither of them tailor their opinions on the basis of who will benefit politically, as opposed to the McCaskill’s of the world…that’s what makes Firedoglake a cut above.

It would be good if we could double check what Alan1tx read in the newspaper at 16. After all the government has lied before about the economy, WMD, the bank bailout, etc etc.

Good Afternoon Jane and Firedogs -

lordy – had not seen that McCaskill quote before – sounds like it’s time for a full body Lexis/Nexis scan on her and/or husband’s, um, interest in the matter ?

The radiation used by the scanners is x-ray radiation (electromagnetic waves of high frequency/energy) and do not cause materials to become radioactive from exposure. They do cause DNA damage though which is where the cancer risk comes from. Neutron radiation, which is different, is what causes materials at nuclear plants to become radioactive themselves.

As NPR reported back in May, some researchers believe the government has miscalculated the dose of radiation that X-ray scanners deliver to the skin.

I wonder if they miscalculated the dose we need to worry about. Never mind the repeated dose you get just waiting in line plus how far the radiation travels. If the radiation travels 50 feet at full strength and each person in line is a foot wide then you would get 50 doses.
At what distance does the radiation only give you a half dose? a quarter dose?

This is such a non issue. Who cares, no one HAS to fly. You don’t like it, don’t fly. I can’t believe Paul is even getting involved in this, the airlines in this country are as pure free market as possible in this day and age.

I’m not saying I’m in favor of the machines, I just don’t think the radiation aspect is that big a deal.

And I believe tools at Nuclear plants are left behind when they become “contaminated”, not “radioactive”.

Thanks for the information I stand corrected still Cancer is bad.

Look at everyone board of directors, major stockholders, banks or anyone who loaned the company money then look at who gave her cash or wants a favor from her in bills pending.
If you find anything Diary:)

That would be very un-Republican of them.

A friend sent me a perfect solution for the scanner issue today. Put a single room that is made like the bomb squad’s container to use to explode all potential bombs safely, with only the carrier of such device being harmed because they chose to bring it in the container with them. If they are carrying a bomb, it explodes, the damage is contained and cleaned up for the next person. Anyone that wants to opt out can get felt up. Anyone with a medical condition that may be a problem for the bomb containment unit, can easily get their doctor’s paperwork to prevent their having to expose themselves to explosion.

It would make personal responsibility a little more important. It would keep our government out of our pants, except for those that would choose this for their own purposes.

Can you take off work for a week to go from Chicago to Seattle by train to see your family for the holidays never mind the actual time you spend with your family?
Pregnant women, and Cancer patients and survivors won’t like this parents trying to have kids won’t like this.
Nuns won’t let themselves be groped, neither will victims of sexual abuse.
Besides I thought the Mission was Accomplished?

Another approach that’s possible is for people at the airport to opt out of the scanner and take the pat-down but tell the person administering it in the politest terms that you want their name and badge number and you will be filing criminal molestation charges with the local authorities. As the Nazis were told, just following orders is no defense. I’m not saying these folks are bad people, they are just doing their jobs, but in effect they are engaging in possible criminal conduct. The fact the government might tell an employee to kill someone doesn’t absolve them from the consequences of their actions. When I was in the Army we were actually told that you don’t obey an illegal order, so the onus is on you. As Ron Paul says, these are criminal acts and the TSA staff will have to be held accountable.

“contaminated”, not “radioactive”.

contaminated with radioactivity

Senator Claire McCaskill called the pat-downs “love pats.”

I think she’s been hanging out with Karl Rove’s dad…

McClatchy news:

TSA could have chosen a less intrusive screening machine

LINK.

the DA from san mateo airport (SAN FRAN AIRPORT) is under its jurisdiction, just said that groping is illegal and is someone does this there is is no immunity to breaking the law and he will PROSECUTE

I think you just have to point and say “That guy perjured himself in Congress.”

“Senator Claire McCaskill called the pat-downs “love pats.”

Senator Claire McCaskill also loves the idea of cutting social security.

Senator Claire McCaskill love for the Catfood Commission led by Bowles and Simpson would make Romeo and Juliet mad.

What Claire McCaskill needs to do is make a video of her and her girlfriends getting some “LOVE PATS” by the TSA, to show us all how committed she is to this act by the TSA.

Democrats dont stand up to Republicans!

True, you can refuse to fly. I do.

This is not about the airlines, this is about a government agency run amok, spending a lot of money on devices which may or may not be dangerous, may or may not be effective, may or may not be needed, and the molestation procedure designed to terrorize passengers into using the devices.

We can fix this. It should not require an act of Congress, it should simply involve the Obama Administration issuing the appropriate orders to shut this stuff down. It’s like he doesn’t understand the part about being in charge. Maybe Prez O thinks he needs to build support among TSA managers and persuade them to compromise.

Would you stand up to the people that are on your same team just because they have a different name then you do?

I LOVE living in the Bay Area at times like this. Glad someone is standing up.

Yay! That’s my county and it makes me proud. We have a very tough DA.

there is a report on big brother watch about a 3 year old being patted down and screaming “stop touching me”. Three year olds that are smarter then our president.

As I said yesterday, we have spent years teaching children about inappropriate touching and now they’re going to be subjected to this?

There’s video. The kid’s dad was actually a news reporter somewhere on the east coast. The mother had to hold the child while the TSA agent did the patdown on a hysterical 3 year old girl.

It just sickens me to know that people are being subjected to this treatment. My teen daughters are each travelling alone next week. Are we now the same as terrorists. How long until we are rounded up “for our safety” and put into camps? I know that is extreme, but…is it?

The other aggravating thing is this is rolled out as fait accompli by Chertoff et al. They didn’t inform anyone “because they didn’t want to tip off terrorists to the new procedures”. Oh, really? Well, everyone knows now! That would make sense if this was one temporary global “sting” operation. But it isn’t. And even if it was, it’s violation (again) of human rights.

Yeah good point . . .

Oh, that’s my ‘hood too. Linky? Off to check sfgate. Yay!

I didn’t think this was such a big deal, this new xray machine. Well, I am at the airport right now, after having just gone through it. Unbelievable. Why do we need this xray machine if we have to nearly strip nude first? Jacket, shoes, belt. I had to take everything out of my pockets, wallet, even paper receipts and my driver’s license. Plus, you have to hold you hands up over your head like you are being robbed or you are a prisoner of war. How apt! I will not do that again. This is sad, how pathetic this country has become.

Nice.

Not true that no one has to fly. Business people fly all the time. My SIL travels about twice a month. For her job. I doubt very much that during this recession she is willing or able to quit her job to prevent the groping/radiation.

“Senator Claire McCaskill called the pat-downs “love pats.”

Senator, the only person I want ‘love patting’ me is my wife.

I, too, have issues with Ron Paul, but I’m glad someone introduced this legislation.

But yeah — if that RapeScan machine stays in operation, five or ten years down the road, we’re doing to see a massive increase in the number of TSA screeners developing cancer, followed close behind by anybody who flies frequently.

has Senator McCaskill issued her commendation to NAMBLA for their mentoring efforts ?

Maybe McCaskill is telling us more about her proclivities than the TSA?

With all due respect, it’s pretty easy to say “just don’t fly if you don’t like this,” but some of us have jobs that require flying on business regularly. So what do I do? Quit my job? Sure, in a Depression like this one (plus being a “certain age”), THAT’s a “solution”…. NOT.

A lot of people feel committed to flying for a number of reasons, and it’s pretty facile to just advise that they find a different means of getting where they need to go. Not as easy to do in practice, than it is in theory. And yes, the airlines are a “pure free market” I suppose, but this issue is NOT about the airlines… it’s about the government invading our privacy and being overly intrusive, while NOT really accomplishing the goals that they purport to be doing (eg, making us allegedly “safer” from terrorists). The machines are invasive, potentially life-threatening from radiation, and they don’t really protect against terrorism. It’s expensive baloney.

It’s also about the likes of zillionaires, like Chertoff, who were former gov’t officials making $$$$ off of MY tax dollars (maybe you don’t mind your tax dollars being spent wastefully in this way, but I do) on porno-deathray machines of very dubious value and quality. I protest that vigourously.

The airlines have next to nothing (if not just “nothing”) to do with this egregious waste of time & money, and I THANK Ron Paul for taking a stand on this.

Just my 2 cents worth, but I feel that you’re on the wrong track there.

The Intelligent left and the Tea Party God Father Ron Paul do have common enemy here the TSA

The Intelligent left needs to use the TEA PARTY to attack the phony democrats or trojan horses calling themselves democrats.

Make OBAMA, Axelrod, Gibbs, Jarett, Plouffe,defend the idea of “LOVE PATS by the TSA”

it would be nice if Mitchell Obama, Jarett, Plouffe, Axelrod, Gibbs, all done a video showing us how they like the TSA LOVE PATS

this TEA PARTY movement has potential, the intelligent left needs to guide the tea party crowd to all the dead skeletons, that no one wants to deal with.

Actual nudity is what comes next. That, and paper clothes. Then the seat restraints. And finally sedative suppositories and diapers.

Soon we’ll all be flying exactly like ‘terrorist suspects’ on their rendition flights.

Ron Paul should have introduced this funny clip.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/18/japanese-comedians-take-o_n_785275.html

“love pats” is so 1984.

We can fix this. It should not require an act of Congress, it should simply involve the Obama Administration issuing the appropriate orders to shut this stuff down.

So true. Unfortunately, chances are the WH does nothing substantive, as the TSA vigorously pursues its own agenda to the bitter end.

Since a Dem is in the WH, congressional Dems will continue to out-Repub the Repubs for the sake of the tribe.

LOL

check out the site and wear your TS next time you fly

OK, I just checked a few articles and that’s not exactly what our DA said.

The San Mateo and Santa Clara district attorneys’ offices said Wednesday that they would bring charges against TSA agents at San Francisco and San Jose airports, respectively, who commit sexual crimes during searches. They said charges would be evaluated case by case and that prosecutors would take into account the fact that the agents were doing a job.

But what happens if they cross the line? That’s sexual battery, said Steve Wagstaffe, San Mateo County’s chief deputy district attorney.

Wagstaffe said it’s no different from when prosecutors charge dentists, doctors, or even police officers who abuse their power by touching people in a sexual manner. He said the key to proving a criminal offense is the sexual intent behind the groping.

“TSA does not have any special immunity from everybody else,” Wagstaffe said. “If an employee of TSA inappropriately touches the privates of another person, and they do so with a sexual or lewd intent, then that’s either a misdemeanor (if it’s over the clothing) or a felony crime (possible when touching the skin).”

my bold.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Calif+prosecutors+they+charge+agents+downs+inappropriate/3845612/story.html#ixzz15f2DLYlH

Ron Paul and Rand Paul are separate individuals .

There’s times I like Ron Paul. I think Ron Paul, in his own way, cares about the country.

Rand Paul I have no no use for. He’s in all this for what he can get out of it personally. Same thing for Rand Paul’s medical career…went for the big cash machine, too. LASIK surgery. Cha-ching.

http://www.randpaulmd.com/

and I THANK Ron Paul for taking a stand on this.

Me too.

I am VERY disappointed in Senator McCaskill for thinking/saying that.

Does she have any monetary interest in this? That’s the ONLY reason I can think of for anyone to support this violation of human dignity.

Hear, hear. “don’t fly” also misses the point that if I choose not fly, there are others still submitting themselves to this inhumane treatment.

Not to mention the fact that we get to decide what a “love pat” is and what is not. A stranger touching my body is NOT a love pat. Most of the screeners must hate touching other people all day long and I guess some enjoy it.

That’s when I was born XD

Yeah, seems rather selfish to me to say that. Not everyone can lead life the way I do, nor do I expect everyone to conform to my lifestyle choices. The point of living in community is looking out for the needs of most of us. Not everyone can eschew flying. Why should citizens be subjected to this invasion of privacy just because they don’t have the option to avoid flying?

Tip of the hat again to Ron Paul. Can’t say it often enough.

Note: 9/11 is a the Chertoff family business. His 1st cousin Ben wrote the Popular Mechanics 9/11 debunkers bible.

Why didn’t a so-called “Democrat” introduce this sort of legislation? Why, corporate Dems are still busy supporting their first black Republican President, Obama (R), who marches to the fascist tunes of Bush and Cheney.

After watching Keith Olbermann’s interview with an Israeli security expert, I realized that this so-called “security” is just another corporate profit center, stealing money from American taxpayers. Abolish the so-called “Homeland Secuirty Dept.” it is a total waste of money. If we don’t want threats of terror, we should finally stop being imperial pigs around the third world…

Maybe in the olden days, but not anyone from the current crop of Democrats.

Sure, I did know that, but thanks for pointing it out for all to see here. Quite. 911 has been quite the money-maker for quite a few of our more mendacious venal overlords. 911 was & is only about making lotsa buck$$$$. The “terrorist” angle is just to scare the rubes into agreeing to parting with their money. suckahs! I’m sick of being suckered by this nonsense. It’s bull hockey.

After watching Keith Olbermann’s interview with an Israeli security expert, I realized that this so-called “security” is just another corporate profit center, stealing money from American taxpayers. Abolish the so-called “Homeland Secuirty Dept.” it is a total waste of money.

Exactly. Bingo!! Let your friends and neighbors know, too. It’s a load of money-wasting baloney that does *nothing* to make anyone safer from anything… esp not “safe” from corporate predatory rip-offs artists, like Chertoff.

Surely in the world’s greatest upholder of law and freedom and justice, that 3 year old is committing a felony by resisting and may well be guilty of criminal assault on an heroic TSA’er. 3 year olds can be prosecuted can’t they? In the land of the free?

OK, sorry, I’ll say it. While I don’t want children to be subjected to the “love pats”, I smelt a plant when I learned it was a reporter’s child. Just sayin’. I don’t want a real objection to be dismissed because a reporter was cooking up a story. Sorry. And no, I didn’t watch the video because I couldn’t bear it in any context.

Meanwhile, our cargo gets sent off with better treatment.

Stories like this are starting to pop up and come to light. I don’t think it would be hard to prove that TSA thugs have lewd intent

A WOMAN is suing over an incident where airport staff allegedly pulled down her top and joked about her breasts in public view.

The 23-year-old traveller, from Amarillo, US, is suing the US Government for the emotional distressed she says the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) agents caused.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/travel/news/airport-staff-exposed-womans-breasts-laughed/story-e6frg8ro-1225955345734

So, how long until the airlines need another bailout because business is being hurt by people who don’t want to be assaulted choosing not to fly?

No, a Democrat wouldn’t propose this kind of legislation because they’re too afraid of being labelled soft on terror.

Kudos to Ron Paul.

mother of god!

The other reason could be that she’s an ignoramus who has never had to endure the indignity of a stranger’s hands on her privates.

You think that reporter’s kid is the only who’s had this done to them? He just happened to have the presence of mind to record it while it was happening, plus the media access to get it aired.

They can’t have named it RapeScan by accident.

I think they take pleasure in destroying rights, dignity, and life.

Also funny was Stewart or Colbert:
- Illegal Wars – OK
- Illegal Spying – OK
- Torture – OK
- But an image scan…. AMERICANS WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!

No, I don’t believe this kid is the only one. Good point about presence of mind. I just hope a reporter didn’t use his kid for a story. That’s all.

It’s Rapiscan “rapid” plus “scan”. But still…rapescan says it best.

And yes, it’s all well and good to take someone else’s rights away to protect ME, but if I have to experience some immediate indignity, yeah, that gets our attention. /s

If you live in Hawaii, you do have to fly to get anywhere else, or even inter-island.

Very true…yet sad

Good for Paul.

Looking at who hates Paul, one can deduce that he must be really good!

You know, the President, and his administration, are in a very “damned if they do,damned if they don’t” situation here.
Were there to be a successful terrorist attack involving an airline, everyone would be blaming them for not doing enough to protect us. If drastic measures are taken (which i think include frisking and this scanner) then people are gonna complain about privacy invasions.
In the end this becomes a judgment call which will be subjected to the scrutiny of Monday morning quarterbacks. If there is no attack, the criticism is infringement of rights. If there is an attack and no advanced security measures are taken, then the charge will be failure to adequately protect us from terrorists.
I think Ron Paul has a win-win situation here. He gets to criticize the administration no matter how they play this.
Personally, i’d like to see a less invasive method of security be employed…but i’ll be damned if i could tell you what that would be.

http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf

Report from a group at the University of California San Fransisco!

The thing is, this security theater does not really do much of anything towards protecting people. It makes a show of the actions. It would be far better to hire humans and train them to ask the appropriate questions. Think El Al and their security procedures as the text book example.

And it does nothing towards screening and stopping cargo which is a far larger security hole. And not just airplane cargo, but ships s well.

Senator Claire McCaskill will be out of the Senate in two years. I can’t say I’ll be sorry.

Yeah I hate it when I agree with a right-winger, but about 40 percent of the time he’s absolutely right. The other 60 percent is another matter…

Sorry to disagree, but many have already commented elsewhere that (1) TSA is always addressing the last previous bombing attempt, w/o addressing the next one; and (2) the next attempt will be by someone who inserts the bomb into a body cavity, or maybe ingests it, or maybe gets it surgically implanted.

So, how, pray tell, will TSA address these issues? Body cavity searches for your random granny or three-year-old? I’m sure Chertoff is working on a solution as we speak.

Thanks this letter needs to go viral!

My point (and conclusion) was that Ron Paul is most likely using this to gain political capitol. Were there to be an attack or another discovered attempt to circumvent airport security he would then criticize from that position.

I am way ahead of Ron Paul on boycotting the TSA. Unless my boss orders me to get on a plane, I won’t have strange men and/or women groping my genitals in broad daylight………….

My point (and conclusion) was that Ron Paul is most likely using this to gain political capitol. Were there to be an attack or another discovered attempt to circumvent airport security he would then criticize from that position.

You question Paul’s motives, but do you disagree with his message?

Good for Ron! Glad to see someone in Congress pushing back on this.

I wish the word ‘dignity’ was used more often in our nations capital.

Personally, i’d like to see a less invasive method of security be employed…but i’ll be damned if i could tell you what that would be.

Ask the Israelis. Having worked with the El Al people at JFK in the 80s I can tell you they used a very targeted approach that consisted mainly of talking to certain people. Also, everyone from the ticket counter people on were “security”. They didn’t rely just on government flunkies.

One thing they didn’t do during that time of hijackings was show cowardice, which is what we do with this infantile paranoia you see on display. Airline operations proceeded as normal, but normal was a hell of a lot more intelligent than what you see at US airlines.

Isn’t there some sort of penalty for lying to Congress? Just sayin’…

Only when it comes to steroids and baseball.

To follow El Al’s approach TSA would actually have to have standards for hiring and training their staff.

That and the airlines would have to train their people a lot better than they do. Look at the security tapes of the 9/11 hijackers in Boston, very hard to pick them out immediately but the “tells” are there. Body language and demeanor. What impressed me about the El Al people was how they saw this in a crowd, what would seem subtle and unremarkable to most.

Remember, back in the 80s it wasn’t just ME terrorists you also had IRA and ETA (pasty white guys) to contend with so profiling can only be done properly by noticing anomalies in behavior. That takes a lot of training, and many trained eyes on the crowd.

I was in NY after 9/11 and the airport security was Bozo Central, where they would walk up and do a stage “listen in” — actually leaning in with hand cupped to ear — if someone acted riled or spoke up. It was amateurish.

Despite knowing for decades that terrorists could sneak bombs onto planes, the U.S. government failed to close obvious security gaps amid pressure from shipping companies fearful tighter controls would cost too much and delay deliveries.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/shippers-fought-full-screening-cargo-pla

The government agreed that it would hurt the economy too much. So the answer is for us to make it cost businesses Big Money to scan us/grope us.

I wish I had a geiger counter

http://is.gd/hnbaO $ 44.95 (used)
http://is.gd/hnaZ1 $169.00
http://is.gd/hnb5g $899.00

Seems to be most Xray techs wear a lead vest at the hospital…hmmmmm what should we who wait in line or the TSA Agents be wearing?

A geiger counter won’t catch xrays (will it?), but I do know what you mean. What I don’t know, however, it what to call such a gizmo – other than “X-Ray Detector Thingy”.

Ye gods, if that worked, what a great stunt that would be. In our obsessively fearful culture, an immediate threat like radiation should trump the perceived, abstract threat of terrorism and turn even folks who don’t give a damn about freedom or the Fourth Amendment against these control-addict searches.

On MSNBC, I think on Tuesday night, a guy from the TSA was interviewed. I frikkin cannot recall which show…was it smerconish filling in for matthews or was it on KO?…

I’m sure somebody here saw that interview and can clarify this.

Anyway, as I recall, he sternly and flatly denied that any children under 16 are given pat downs.

If there is video to contradict him, we need to get a link to it while the iron is hot.

Another tactic can be to employ some agreement resistance. Next time at the airport, ASK them to handle your junk. Make jokes about a “dangerous package.” After the grope, suggest that you weren’t searched well enough and that you’re pretty sure something might still be hiding up there–we’ll those terrorists can be really sneaky and there’s no telling to what lengths they might go.

How about a cucumber wrapped in tinfoil for the scanner? Or, a la Jackass, a thoroughly unidentifiable object in your colon?

I’m going to try something this holiday season.

s/ I truly hate the idea of being groped by an ugly person.
Now if he was hot, and I had the time…maybe feelin kinda y’know anxious…nothing wrong with a little gropey gropey…in public is soooo hot. /s

The snark had a purpose: These aggressive pat-downs are a sexual act. If I give somebody an aggressive pat-down in public, I get arrested for lewd acts. Yet the TSA does it to somebody in public, and we’re supposed to clap louder?

Video

Absolutely, if by “as pure free market as possible in this day and age” you mean an industry heavily subsidized and politically supported by the federal government.

Look at this, was posted on a WaPo site by someone called “spikeyfan2003″. America, the bloated, sexually deviant coward-land.

I personally opted out of the scanner last week. The process of the pat down was invasive and humiliating. Basically for a women your breasts are lifted up to make sure nothing is hidden underneath and the folds of your vagina are felt on either side, then once up the middle. I was so horrified I began to film my travel companion while she was being searched. A mass of agents came over to surround and stop me.

Excellent suggestion!

One of the interesting things about this whole issue is that two of the most anxiety-producing aspects of our culture face off against one another with the airport pat down: safety and sexuality. US culture is generally prudish and at least squeemish about anything involving the human body (ever heard a fart on TeeVee ?). On the other hand, the culture is generally scared shitless and constantly clamouring for anything which might assuage it fears with placebo safety salve (or worse). I’m interested to see which of these anxieties will end up throwing trump.

Awesomeness. Many thanks. I snagged a copy of it. Now I’m off to see if I can find the TSA dude saying that kids don’t get pat-downs.

If you live in Hawaii, you do have to fly to get anywhere else, or even inter-island.

Don’t they have ferries? Maybe they could bring them back?

I’ve been wanting them to bring back Transatlantic ocean liners for some time.

I hope you all boycott the airlines. …think I’ll be able to fly for less? :)…..oh, live in Hawaii, have to fly anywhere u want to go. Move! Learn to swim….buy a boat.

@Alternate ID
“You question Paul’s motives, but do you disagree with his message?”
No.
But if an airplane blows up, i’ll deny having had this conversation.
How about this? We have 2 airplanes. On one everyone is checked and scanned. On the other, no one is. We put up a big sign distinguishing which is which.
What one do you want to be on at 30,000 feet?

What one do you want to be on at 30,000 feet?

The one where the cargo was screened and fully inspected.

But that’s is really a bit of a strawman as no one is saying there should be NO screening at all of the passengers. Just that the Pron screening and groping are not as effective as other means.

Wow. Such a ringing endorsement of the teaparty. I am not happy with Obama or the Dems. I think this TSA porn ‘n grope is yet another disgusting incident of corruption. But let me guess: Team Obama has the support of Lieberman and Graham and other republicans who are protesting hard but not convincingly. And I think the Dems who support this sound like a bunch of court sycophants. Worse than that: Yes men/women at a board meeting.
But for the record, none of us left need the teaparty. We may agree on one issue, maybe one and a half. There are plenty of independents out there who swing to the left of Mussolini. I’ll hang with them, thank you very much. when the tea party wants to come down from whatever its on and think more like mainstream America, then maybe, maybe we can talk. Until then, we’re just two boats passing in the night. I won’t thank Ron Paul for this, because I don’t know that he intends to restore any dignity whatsoever. He’s a career politician. If his interests happen to coincide with those of us on the left/mainstream on civil rights, then good, but this does not make us married cousins.

From the Washington Post:

Pistole said children 12 and younger would not be required to go through the process. He said anyone who objects to a public pat-down can be searched in private.

Video of a 3-year old getting a pat-down: Thanks to dakine01 @117

From Hardball via Youtube: I find the bit at about 6:50 interesting. John Pistole says the images are not stored. Try googling images for “TSA body scan”. There are loads of joke images and sales pitch images, but there are also many examples of real images.

The Hardball via Youtube video is the interview where I recall that Pistole claimed that kids under 16 are not scanned, but I didn’t see it in my quick glance through the video this evening. If somebody finds in in the video, please time index it for me. Or if you find it in another interview, please link to it!

John Pistole should be fired and investigated for corruption.

Why is it that the government says we should sacrifice American lives overseas in wars to fight the terrorists, but we should sacrifice rights at home to save lives from the terrorists? Why can’t we tolerate some level of risk at home to preserve rights, dignity and convenience?

The government isn’t really interested in saving our lives. It wants to line pockets and keep us fearful, powerless and complacent. Perhaps it has finally overplayed its groping hand.

@alanhawaii
Don’t be sorry. I do it all the time.

@dakine01

“It would be far better to hire humans and train them to ask the appropriate questions.”
Other methods? Like asking questions?
‘Excuse me sir (or madam) but do you happen to have a bomb in your knickers?’
Yes, it would be good to have the baggage checked as well. But we’re not talking about baggage here.

I find it interesting that some people equate this to porn. The purpose of the 2 things aren’t remotely the same. One is for sexual gratification. The other aims to find materials that may be used to bring down a jumbo jet. I suppose that if you consider any situation where a naked body is visible to be porn, then it’s a valid argument.

So you are saying that forcing passengers to either go through these unproven scanners or to be groped by strangers in front of other strangers are the only procedures that will make you feel safe?

Did you know that without this new scanner/grope regimen that your chances of dying in an airline related terrorist attack are virtually nil? You have have a much greater chance of being killed by lightning.

El Al manages to train their people (at all levels) to look for certain signals in body language and certain questions and phrasing to ask. They do not use these types of scanners and I believe have called them useless. Humans trained to know what to look for and what questions to ask are far more effective than the machines and groping.

Cargo screening is far more likely to be the area where the problem occurs but “it’s too expensive.”

This is not security, it is security theater, nothing more.

This is such a non issue. Who cares, no one HAS to fly. You don’t like it, don’t fly.

Why don’t you crawl out of your mom’s basement and think about folks, US citizens, even, who DO have to fly if they want to get off their Tropical Alcatraz.

Those things work by changing the pressure in the room to simulate ascending to heights reached by air craft. When you fly, you are in a pressurized cabin for your protection. Your friend’s idea would not work.

@Alternate ID
No, i’m not advocating any particular method. What interests me is how people equate it to porn or some conspiracy to take away their rights.

“Did you know that without this new scanner/grope regimen that your chances of dying in an airline related terrorist attack are virtually nil? You have have a much greater chance of being killed by lightning.”
An interesting statement. I’d like to know how the stats for that are acquired.

@dakine01
“Humans trained to know what to look for and what questions to ask are far more effective than the machines and groping.” Do you have proof of this? How would you question the cargo?

If i were to argue this method of scanning i would be more concerned with the health aspect of it. The whole porn/grope argument smacks of sensationalism and conspiracy theories.

Actually it smacks of abuse reminscent of that at Gitmo, Bagram and Abu Ghraib. Molestation/exposure/ in the name of the state security apparatus, top secret, Classified. It’s so wrong. It’s a violation of personal space. Basically the obama administration/Chertoff/Lieberman and Grham are telling us we have no personal space. And with no personal space, what else goes?
I’m fine with “porn/grope” as a nickname because it is negative and outrageous enough to capture the outrage some of us are feeling.

I mean what are we entitled to anymore? The Obama/Simpson commission seems to want to tell us we are not entitled to social security. So what else is left?

What interests me is how people equate it to porn or some conspiracy to take away their rights.

If that was your true interest, why didn’t you just say so? I could have sworn you started out talking about Ron Paul’s political motivations and then segued into an authoritarian false-equivalency straw man either-or choice :)

I’d like to know how the stats for that are acquired.

You have my permission to use the Google.

@Alternate ID
Yeah, i guess i kinda went where the argument led me…people made comments on my post and i responded.

It’s called a dosimeter, specifically an x-ray dosimeter, they are available OTC, with different levels of cost, accuracy, and convenience, (since most health-care badges need to be sent out for reading) but the “insta-dose” can give you real-time reads from a computer. (The bigger question is, why aren’t the TSA agents wearing them?..hmm…)
Here’s some linky goodness:
http://www.jplabs.com/html/comparison_of_radiation_dosime.html
http://www.dentalproductsreport.com/articles/show/dpr0410_we_stayingsafer?print=1
http://www.healthcare.philips.com/main/products/Solutions/doseaware/index.wpd?origin=7_us_en_doseaware______marin|s3Csyu6Ri&pcrid=6003249820

For opt out day you should ware a depends adult dipper but first get a blue marker and write TSA on the front and back now I know that tsa will want to go down inside the dipper that is after they take your pants down so that is why you should take some exlax just befor you go to the airport by the time you reach the airport you should have a surprise for them and you should be making some strange noise back there. also drink a lot of water it will be ok your waring a dipper might as well use it fighting back can be fun.