The TSA is opening an investigation targeting John Tyner, the man who earned himself an aggressive “pat down” at the airport when he refused to go through the TSA’s new AIT “porno scanners.”
But it’s the TSA that should be investigated, not Tyner.
Tyner was not permitted to board his flight after he refused to be groped, and now he could face both prosecution and a fine of $11,000.
But his real crime was making the “don’t touch my junk” video showing exactly what happened during his encounter with the TSA, which sparked a public backlash.
The new pat-down policy for refuseniks, which started on November 1, has been described by the Airline Pilots Association as “sexual molestation” — and it’s nothing more than a way to punish people who might boycott the Department of Homeland Security’s expensive new boondoggle scanners. And prosecuting Tyner is blatant and very public way to intimidate anyone who might follow his lead.
This goes to show just how how constant threats of “terror” are used to create new markets for products nobody needs. The public is then intimidated into compliance in the name of “national security,” when in reality they’re sacrificing their dignity, their civil liberties and their tax dollars for the sake of enormous profits:
- 2005: Michael Chertoff, as head of Homeland Security, orders the first batch of porno scanners from a company called Rapiscan Systems. After his departure, Chertoff gave dozens of interviews using his government credentials to promote the device. What he didn’t tell people was that Rapiscan was one of the clients of his consulting company, The Chertoff group.
- March 2009: The Department of Homeland Security says they will apply $1 billion in stimulus money to the nation’s airports. Senator Joe Lieberman, Chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, personally promises to oversee the distribution of stimulus funds so money goes toward the goal of creating “4 million jobs” and not on “boondoggles”
- December 2009: Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz inserted language into the Homeland Security appropriations bill barring the use of full-body image scans as “primary” screening tools at airports, and it passed the House on a bipartisan vote of 310-118. Both the ACLU and the NRA backed it. The amendment also made it illegal to store and copy these images. It died in the Senate.
- December 25, 2009: The “Christmas bomber” attempts to detonate plastic explosives hidden in his underwear while on board a flight to Detroit.
- December 29, 2009: Joe Lieberman calls for “more widespread use of the full-body scanners after the aborted attack.”
- January 2010: Since they couldn’t get money for the porno scanners from Congress, TSA uses the “Christmas bomber” scare to appropriate $25 million they had received in stimulus money to buy the “backscatter” scanners — from Rapiscan, Chertoff’s client. Rapiscan said the contract “helped create” 25 jobs. The government gives the TSA the green light to spend a total of $173 million on the scanners. TSA spokesperson Sarah Horowitz said “the agency has enough funds that would come from the stimulus program and other federal sources” to purchase 300 more porno scanners, per CNN. Total jobs created, per the government’s own website: 1.
- April 2010: The GAO reports that “it remains unclear whether the AIT would have detected the weapon used in the December 2009 incident based on the preliminary information GAO has received.”
- November 8, 2010: US Airline Pilots Association tells its members “NOT to submit to AIT screenings.”
- November 15, 2010: Joe Lieberman says he “comes down on the side of the patdowns.”
The last thing the TSA needs is a pile of crappy technology that isn’t even effective, that people refuse to use, right?
So the “groping” technique was developed as a way to punish people into using the scanners — because there are $148 million more on the way. And just so nobody gets the idea to follow Tyner’s lead, the TSA is using threats and intimidation to guarantee the market for the porno scanners. Whether Tyner is prosecuted or not, people will hear about what happened to him and think twice before refusing to become fodder for their new machines.
This is a full-on outrage.
It’s time to investigate the TSA, not Tyner. Sign the petition demanding Congress investigate the TSA’s porno scanners, aggressive groping, and abuses of power.




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You’re damned right it’s full on outrage.
Signed.
We are quickly nearing the point of no return I think.
I weep for the corruption and cowardice of my country.
Just wanted to say sorry that I couldn’t contrubute right now.
I’m certain I would lose my temper and hurt one of these troglodytes, if they attempted to touch me. I don’t fly anywhere anymore because of the TSA bullshit and that was before this new in-your-face-sexual-assault, which as far as I’m concerned, is a declaration of war and a crime.
I know I’m not the only person with a hot temper who challenges authority. Sooner or later someone is going to punch-out a troglodyte and all hell is going to break-out.
This bullshit may be the spark that lights the fire that spreads and spreads until the government burns down.
Pretty interesting time line. Mmmmm, let me see, big company gets awarded contract for big new porno machines…House of Reps votes bi-partisanly to bar there us in December….and on Christamas day wouldn’t you know an attempted terrorist is caught with explosives….in his underwear.
Nah, it’s all just a coincidence, right? Right????
Just
Stop
Flying
The airline CEOs will get those machines, and the intrusive pat-downs, out of the Security Theater faster than you can imagine. They’ll have El Al-trained type agents asking you the three or four questions in line, with no need for physical training at all.
And that kind of interviewing spots terrorists. El Al knows how.
Jane
Sorry to see you still have faith in on line petitions. We need a much heavier club.
TSA issuing a new rule making it illegal for American Citizens to audio or video-tape in the screening area in 3 – 2 – 1…
It’s all about money for the super-wealthy gaming the system to their benefit via our “elected reps” in the House & the Senate, plus ongoing intimidation of credulous citizens brow-beaten into believing that the so-called “terroist threats” are coming from overseas, not homegrown.
Just PROFILE
But if you were a real “Murikan, you;d trust the TSA. After all they have an unimpeachable track record. Not!
Thank you Jane for confirming t6he obvious that once again “terror” is being exploited so someone can make a buck. It was obvious that the enhanced patdown technique was intended to intimidate people from opting out of the scanners. How come regular patdowns were good enough for nine years since 9/11? It’s really pathetic that our national anthem is nothing but a slogan or an opportunity for group Karaoke at ball games: LAND OF THE FREE< HOME OF THE BRAVE! What a joke as we sheep jump through hoops to fly to grandma's house. If you are so deathly afraid to fly, take a train. What's next, digital rectal exams?
Any connection between Holy Joe and the porno scanners?
Signed.
9/11 has become an inside job.
Yep. I won’t fly as long as this policy, (and the TSA in it’s present for) are in place. period. End of discussion. I dread going through such invasive searches much more than I do the imaginary “terrorists” that dance in places like Joe Lieberman’s head.
Check out what I found ( here’s the data dump in one fairly neat package ) then come back and let’s chat about what it all means.
Can’t wait until this happens to Phyllis Schlafly. Can just imagine that perfect image of virtue being groped.
1 job created for 173 million??? Everyone involved should be arrested for fraud! We can get Holy Joe out of the Senate now.
Signed and sent a few $s.
Do xray scanners pierce iron underwear then?
It’s for the safety and security of their employees, dontchyaknow. /s
Joe took Personal Responsibility the Buck stops with him $173 million to create 1 new job. Can we get a Criminal investigation going?
Or is theft legal now? Should I take back my share of the tax money Holy Joe stole?
Signed. Got no money to send though. I’ve received my last unemployment check.
Sorry…
I agree, but not the way you are probably looking at it.
El Al “profiles” but they do so, not on a racial or ethnic basis but on a psychological activity basis.
It is for ruling caste. Ask Rick Scott.
Was I reading the post that you resonded to in that link correctly? Was that not a supposed “progressive” saying “screw him, take a train or bus if he doesn’t want groped?”
I must’ve read something wrong.
The time has long past for signing petitions.
Youza!!!
Score a BIG one for teh Margaret!
Intimidating a witness molesting people is illegal even if the government does it unless they have reasons that can be proved in court.
Maybe we should organize thefts of our own from the government? Refuse to pay taxes for example?
We should be HAMMERING this home on every website, blog, twitter feed, facebook page, and other media outlet we have access to.
$173 million = 1 job.
Does that person have a $173 million salary? Or is Rape-scan just raking in the profits?
LMAO! Gotta have income to pay taxes.
Schlafly is card-carrying member of the MOTU and has private lear jets to cart her sorry behind around. Don’t waste your time “imagining” her possible indignation or thrill (!?!) at being groped. Being groped is merely for the “small people” proles; the likes of Schlafly are well-taken care of by the PTB… and don’t forget it.
Will Joe consent to be searched by the TSA and have it filmed just so we can be sure that it really happened and that there is nothing for us regular Americans to worry about?
I think every Senator should be searched before every flight just to set an example.
That would be a big fat juicy: YES!
Follow the money. Only the fat-cats will benefit from this, not the proles.
Withdrawals from my retirement fund early withdrawals :(
Must be a relative. Maybe a Lawrence Lieberman perhaps or a Betty Nelson?
Anybody that takes more than .2 seconds to answer that question correctly is hereby forbidden to remain a voting citizen.
Of course! It was a snarky question. I think it’s even more disgusting than usual, though, because they’re profiting from sexually violating people. It really is a form of RAPE, if you think about it.
Government contract can’t we get their financials and business plan? $173 million for one job smells like the skim is bigger than the cost of doing the job.
Yes here I was offering some data I thought the commenter might find informative.
I signed the petition, but the system sent me to the Just Say NOW campaign when I went to make a contribution via PayPal.
I’d LOVE to see this come back on Joe LIEberman somehow. Then we could wave signs at Joe rallies calling him a rapist and a sexual predator! That’ll make a helluva campaign ad.
The TSA honcho in San Diego claimed that “the 4th Amendment” gave him the right to feel up my balls. He has that completely backwards. The Bill of Rights was made a part of the Constitution to protect American citizens against government overreaching. It has nothing to do with granting power to the government. And if grabbing your nuts is not overreaching, what is?
Well, it all goes to materials, research and development, overpriced healthcare, facilities, and a marginal 82% net profit. This is Murika, right? S’okay to DP the citizens by using their tax dollars to sexually exploit them for profit, right?
This is reprehensible.
Clearly, it’s important to go after Tyner because an example of how
importantridiculous these scanners are must be made. How else will Americans be made to feelsafeterrorized and/or abused by their own government? Talk about a waste of taxpayer money…Paying someone to take naked pictures of an unwilling subject…
Paying someone to touch the “private” parts of unwilling subjects…
Sounds an awful lot like sex crimes to me.
Can Joe even perform anymore? I mean, is Droopy, you know, droopy…?
You want real change? Start researching the event that’s the basis for all of this nonsense. 9/11
1300+ Engineers and Architects have signed a petition for a new independent investigation.
Heh, puts those $640 toilet seats the DoD purchased to shame doesn’t it.
You know it’s bad when you make the DoD look like scrooges in their spending habits.
Maybe Harry Reid could gather some of the gumption he showed in beating Angle and give HoJo’s chairmanship to someone who is not running to the right of Atilla the Hun 24/7/365.
Well the people who sign the petitions let us know that they’re interested in the subject, and that’s how we know who to ask for a “heavier lift” when we want people to take more action.
I’ve explained it before. If you don’t understand it that’s fine, but as someone whose only visible action is agitating to keep the mods from being paid a salary, you haven’t offered a better suggestion. This method seems to work for us.
If you think we’re not effective, that’s fine too. Maybe you should go investigate an operation you think is more effective, and let us know how you’d like us to be doing things more to your liking? For free, of course.
You saw gumption from Reid? All I saw was Angle beating herself by being batshit crazy.
The thugs in the TSA have gone from being unemployed louts who couldn’t hold down a minimum wage job to being not only undiscipliable but unquestionable thugs making four times that.
Your Government at work.
Good point, but my feeling is that the “truth” about 911 will be as ever elusive as the “truth” about the assassination of JFK. Petition is a great idea; don’t hold your breath. Let’s face it: we now have irrefutable proof of what a goldmine 911 has been for the wealthy, the powerful, the banksters, Wall St, the MIC & all fed pols (at least). Do the math: who’s gonna pull the plug on that goose currently loads of golden eggs?
I do not want to be too paranoid but whenever the dissidents start getting too noisy, the Establisment pulls a brand new trick. We had the surge and then the other surge. Then Undie Bomber and UPS bomber and Times Square Bomber. We had an election that told the political puppetmasters to end the wars. But it always ends up, you are endangering the troops by not obeying without question.
Anyone agitating for that is far from a serious person, or a committed community member. I appreciate that answer, Jane, it helps us all validate our previously held opinions.
Throwing a stinkbomb like that into a conversation can seem fun, if the thrower is juvenile and scatter-brained, but your additional information makes us all understand that there is simply no point to attending to this person in the future.
heh… I’m with you there, Margaret. I saw absolutely no gumption from Reid, despite how the pundits wished to paint it. It’s just that Angle was so completely batshit crazed that NV citizens held their noses & with great reluctance voted for “that one.”
Anyone who would object to these scanners clearly have something to hide./s
Thanks, Jane. I agree with you. And I appreciate all the “heavy lifting” done here daily. Very important to me. And petitions do work sometimes. Worth the effort, frankly.
Well said, Jane. My hat is off to the “touch my junk” dude. Now there’s a mensch…
I agree. I offer criticism from time to time on threads, but I try to limit it to what I hope is constructive criticism.
That’s burned into my brain now. Thank you. Flacid Joe LIEberman, the rape cursader.
It is and has always been my opinion that the 911 truthers hurt and discredit themselves and distract from very legitimate questions about what Bush knew, (and there is the whole Bush/bin laden connection that was never explored), and when by pushing ridiculous theories like implosions and so forth that are neither supported by the science or by the occupants of the buildings who survived. Furthermore, I’m convinced that those really silly theories were posed by people in government to distract from those very legitimate questions and to discredit anybody who asks them.
In short: I believe that the Bushies knew a whole lot more than they were saying but the science doesn’t support some of the more outlandish theories. It’s a shame too because as you said, now we’ll never know.
It’s “Grope a Granny Day” down at the airport. I’m hoping the grannies load up with 3 or 4 granny diapers just to fuck with the gropers. And, Everyone, refuse to submit to unnecessary x-rays every single time!
You’re quite welcome. Please feel free to add horns to my smiley. :)
Seriously: how freaked would TSA staff get if people started eagerly REQUESTING patdowns? What if I said, “I opt out of the scan; I want a patdown…and i want it from THAT guy. His hands look big, and there’s a lot of territory to cover I you know what I mean. And I want him to pat me down HARD. Plus I think you should have two people do it. But do it now, do it in public and do it all over. I am going to enjoy this boner for SURE!”
Wear a kilt without undies to complete the effect. Couple hundred of those experiences, scanner goes away.
Speaking for myself, Firedoglake is the place I think best fits my needs to learn and speak out. I first came here around Aug 2009. I feel like writing here and signing FDL and PCCC petitions give me as much of a voice as voting in elections, maybe more so. My only concern is that FDL and others are too easily labeled as professional left and wrongfully dismissed by the sellouts and enablers as outside the mainstream.
In this case a petition is particularly useful.
1300+ civil engineers and architects, professionals in the field, have signed their names publicly saying the entire investigation has to be redone independently.
Well, he had to show a certain amount of initiative to use Angle’s own words against her, and run a campaign that focused on the batshit-crazy aspects of Angle to help him keep his seat.
Reid could toss HoJo over the side with few repercussions, his vote is no longer “key” to anything with the new Senate numbers. Why they are catering to his sorry ass is a total mystery to me.
We voted for Hope and Change. This is it.
Signed and donated without any existential self-indulgence.
Remember the “puffer” machines that took upwards a minute a person (though it was claimed they could do 180 people an hour) . . . talk about a waste of money (though I can’t find how much money we wasted on that — but GE cashed in):
At their peak, about 95 machines were installed in 34 airports. The majority of these were GE’s Entry Scan and a few were Smith’s Sentinels. According to an article on the 10 October, 2007 in USA Today, the TSA had planned on installing 434 machines; however, due to maintenance problems, they have halted installation and “have no plans to acquire more.”[10] The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has reported involvement with Syagen’s MS trace portal machine recently, funding them in 2008[11] with one unit tested at Orange County Airport shortly afterwards.[12] At some airports, the machines were replaced either by millimeter wave scanners or backscatter X-ray machines.
“Just Say NO!” …. if enough people did this, the airlines would fight actively with us.
Exactly! As soon as they start losing money because of the groping, they’ll object and they have the clout that we don’t.
Has anyone figured out how to get a radiation badge into the scanner to measure the radiation? Perhaps once, knowing it will be removed for another scan or invasive “pat-down”?
Holy crappers that is hysterical! And if you want to get pat down and still go through the machine like a good little sheep, I find forgetting that you put 6 vitamins in your pocket when you go through the porno machine insures a pat down to the groin.
The TSA guy explained that he would have to go up my right leg and into the groin area. He then asked if I would like to go to a private room. Seeing as I was already late for my flight, I told him not to worry that I hang to the left anyway. The stunned look on his face was priceless.
Thank you!
Jesus, we’re gonna have to start a “TSA Tattletales” section. Sorta like “Dear Penthouse…”
Margaret…
1300 Civil Engineers and architects have publicly signed a petition saying there needs to be an brand new investigation of the events of 9/11/01.
Who are you to tell 1300 engineers and architects they are wrong about information in field they are professionally trained in?
TSA Policy: “Porn Star or Gropee, You Must Pick One”
There’s nothing wrong with criticism; it’s throwing a bomb without offering an alternative that gets very tiresome. You’ve been Mr Alternative, as I recall, in every thread you and I have engaged on. I may not have agreed, but you never took us into a dead end cul-de-sac.
Maybe people should start doing the “When Harry Met Sally” routine….really, really loudly…that’ll git er done.
The science doesn’t support the implosion theories. I can give you my credentials and those of the people I’ve discussed the matter with but history tells me that it would be a waste of both my time and yours because I’m not going to go where science does not and I’m not going to convince anybody who truly believes in it.
Peace.
Proper TSA gropee response: “Bay-bee, I’m so close, just a little higher, yeaaaaah!”
That’s hilarious. And everyone in line could yell “I’ll have what she’s having.”
“Rapiscan”, huh? Appropriate name.
*light bulb*
As I mentioned at Whitney’s thread, why not just use bomb sniffing dogs (detecting gun powder is part of their training) as a preliminary screening tool before selecting people for the “scan or hand” line? It would be certainly be faster and less intrusive.
Or to take it to next level, bomb sniffing pigs.
“Wild pigs have a very advanced sense of smell, many times better than that of the dogs,” said Yekutiel Ben-Yaakov, director of the Jewish Legion. “Special trainers would be brought from Israel and from overseas to train them to ‘patrol’ around communities and find hiding terrorists,” he said.
http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/1635.cfm
Civil disobedience is called for. Fall on the floor in ‘pain’ when the groper gropes; scream in fear; pee on ‘em!
Triple depends just to fuck with ‘em. Rig a tampon to fall on the floor when the groper gets in the zone. Whatever it takes to put a stop to this atrocious grope-a-thon.
Yeah! Then we can call it “rooting” instead of groping. Can you imagine those piggies squealing when they find something?
1300+ Architects and Engineers say the science does support brand new independent investigation and publicly signed the petition at this site saying so.
The field professionals say you’re flat wrong on the science, Margeret. Not me. It’s civil engineers and architects and scientists that say you are wrong, Margeret. On the science, Margeret.
ROFLMAO
HOPE. GROPE.TSA has simply implemented ‘Operation Make Larry Craig Enjoy the Airport Again’
We have the new enhanced “pat downs” which replace the previous intrusive pat downs. Enhanced means sexual molestation. TSA blames it on the Undie Bomber. But Undie was not even given an unenhanced pat down.
But TSA is lying. There are many reports of pat downs of people regardless of “anomalies”.
But hey, at least we know these TSA guys are well trained and trusted enough not to save the images…right? I mean, they are obviously much more trustworthy that these U.S. Marshals working at a federal courthouse.
http://gizmodo.com/5690749/these-are-the-first-100-leaked-body-scans
I can’t stop laughing.
Priceless — and guys can stuff a sausage in there to give them the Dirk Diggler look! Heck . . . put two in — one to the left and the other to the right and really have them wondering.
Great comment. The subject is definitely serious but this thread is very funny.
Thank you more.
LMAO! Comment of the decade at least.
Ugh, maybe I’m being unfair again, but IMO when people tell others to STFU and take a train if they don’t like being groped it sounds an awful like the right wingers saying you don’t have to worry about privacy rights being violated if you’ve got nothing to hide.
A LOT like it.
Please. Feel free to believe what you wish! Let it go!
The pig trainer (“the pig whisperer” if you will) is an Israeli Army vet named Geva Zin, somebody give that guy a TSA contract!
“I watched how they behaved and came to the conclusion that they could be more efficient than dogs at sniffing out mines and explosives. I noticed that they constantly sniffed at the ground, their snouts always hovering above the earth. I got the impression that their sense of smell is incredibly well-developed.
“The pigs work and understand very quickly, maybe half of the time of the dogs,” Zin says.
So far he has trained four pigs, all female. Calling Soda, he leads her to a “minefield” and starts talking to her in Hebrew. She seems to understand.
“Good. You’re so pretty,” Zin says. Soda grunts and wiggles her wet nose, opening her mouth for treats.
When they detect a mine or explosives, his pigs quickly sit and point their snouts skyward and wait for their tasty reward, which Zin slips into their mouths.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1051577/posts (apologies for the freeper link)
You know what will solve this problem? When people stop flying. When the airlines start feeling this in their P&L reports, then they’ll exert the only pressure which matters anymore: the corporate kind. Sad but true.
Check out Cspan 2. Hearing on TSA…talking about patdowns.
From here: http://www.leftcoastrebel.com/2010/11/tsa-body-scanning-scam-follow-money.html
How cute. I had a potbelly pig once, and he was cute and smart and always hungry. :)
THANKS JANE!!!
Sometimes a person needs to shout their gratitude ; )
Last time I said that, the Tea Party was formed.
Agreed.
I no longer fly anywhere. TSA sexually assaultng me? Not on your life! But what is really sad is, with the exception of very sick people, why would any sane rational person want to do this?
A few years ago I flew out of a small regional airport (Eureka-Arcata, California) soon after the “shoe bomber” incident had made it mandatory to take off your shoes.
This was a new thing at the time, but a sign said that you had an option not take your shoes off, although you would be subject to a “pat search.” (What that had to do with checking the shoes, I don’t know.)
With my arthritis and lace-up shoes, I elected for the “pat search.” Big mistake. It was more of a “poke” search than a “pat” search. Make that hard, repeated pokes. I was clearly being punished for “choosing” to avoid taking my shoes off. I felt assaulted.
But accepting violative assault from government is what we are supposed to be “learning” from the TSA, isn’t it?
Stop bring beliefs up in a discussion that’s supposed to be about fact finding and evidence gathering. The scientific method.
These engineers and scientists gathered evidence. They researched. They had lab testing done at independent lab facilities.
The scientific method says we can’t just assume “Bush probably knew” and stop there because it politically easier to just stop there. You have to go where the evidence leads.
“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”
— Arthur Conan Doyle
As I said before, I do not care about the mods salary or anyone else’s including yours. I believe FDL should be more transparent. I don’t like the name myFDL. Others don’t like nested comments. These things should have been run past the community rather than imposed. If new tools are needed to do this, it would be a good thing ask of your programmers. Changing the way FDL works is an important step in the right direction, though it is your sandbox.
We need to create a network involving just about everyone organized around our smallest political subdivisions, cities and towns. Congressional districts are too large. Putting the town’s check book on line (usually available as a freedom of information request) may do the trick. The site can include a local Craig’s type list, Wikipedia type pages on school programs, comparisons of things like class size and per pupil costs, non-brokered real estate offerings-anything to make people want to join. I have never had my finger on the public pulse. Had you asked me to invest in a chain of coffee shops, I’d have said you are crazy. We need a way to demonstrate our ability to work together-like a wave at a rock concert.
It can turn a buck since if successful it would be a larger advertising platform than either google or facebook. Running primaries and on line petitions won’t do it, at least they haven’t. My plan requires lots of computing power, but most of all it involves people putting their heads together to come up with something attractive to millions and millions of users. It’s hard because most people talk the talk. They suggest general strikes, torches and pitchforks, but a discussion about what we can do to create an alternative to the Dems can’t get off the ground. Rayne started a series on the subject and stopped, discouraged by the response. I suggested she email me to kick it around, an offer she did not accept. I guess we’re both discouraged.
There’s lots of legal, non-violent ways to make the point of lots of people being pissed provided the people are persuaded they are part of something huge. I suggest that FDL rather than linking to other blogs have a section for an ongoing discussion about how we might use the internet as a political force. So far the use is hierarchical. Moveon wants money. It doesn’t want decision making contributors. The problem is the contributors are not that crazy about making decisions. Losing the hierarchical state of mind won’t be easy.
I know we got off on the wrong foot but our goals are the same. I might add IMHO your TV presence has improved immeasurably. Show a little more of the steel that got Natural Born Killers produced.
Did you donate?
MSNBC says Tyner has “struck a populist chord”. How the fuck is concern for privacy “populist”?
I guess in our plutocracy’s new vocabulary “populist” just means doomed to be squelched.
Are you seriously saying that the commenters should get to vote on every change? If you know exactly how it should be done, why don’t you do it? Get your own blog and see how it works.
privacy as a human right, I guess
Yes, El Al’s very effective.
The pilot’s not submitting would also cut it out quickly. They really shouldn’t try to fly the plane’s if the pilots aren’t on board.
I’m sure the pilot’s and the airlines realize how this could affect their profits and jobs.
Truer words were never spoken!
ROFLMAO!!! OMG!!
Paging Mark Wahlberg to the Southwest terminal at Logan Airport…
this is a diary…
Consider it signed, sealed, and fucking delivered.
And do they wear gloves? And do they change gloves after each person? What kind of diseases may they pass on?
Populist means people care. What they are saying is this is not going to be a one or two day story. It is big news.
There is no need for you to freak out over it, it was a perfectly innocent and accurate observation.
John Tyner, including all of his junk ;~), is second only to Julian Assange as my top pick for Time’s Person of the Year.
I don’t think I have always disagreed with you :) Is that what you meant? I recall a period going into the midterms when we had a few differences, but that’s about it. Sorry if I gave you the impression that I’m always disagreeing with you.
Did anyone post about Opt Out Day yet?
Beats Lebron James by a wide margin anyway.
At the risk of seeming self-indulgent or whatever, I tried to donate using the widget on the front page. But there’s no feature that allows us to make contributions via PayPal. Can that be added?
I want every. single. congressperson. who voted for this or is “OK” with it, to be patted down on cspan.
First they touched his junk, but I didn’t care because it was not my junk. Then they touched….
“This goes to show just how how constant threats of “terror” are used to create new markets for products nobody needs. The public is then intimidated into compliance in the name of “national security,” when in reality they’re sacrificing their dignity, their civil liberties and their tax dollars for the sake of enormous profits.”
That is EXACTLY what this is all about. Thanks Jane.
In Lieberman’s TSA “hearing” today …TSA said that cargo coming to the US is not checked on cargo planes. So, shouldn’t they be doing something about that? A cargo plane with a bunch of unchecked explosive could be incredibly catastrophic. The TSA guy basically said they don’t bother because there are only a few people on board…but what if it crashes into a building?? Helllloooo…
By the way, are any policies made anymore because they are actually “good policies for the citizens of this country” vs. the “someone needs to make a buck” policies which appear to be standard operating procedure now?
Signed. Also wish I could contribute, but not possible at this time. I don’t fly anymore because I’ve always hated it and have decided I’m too old to do things I hate. Glad I stopped flying before this bullsh*t started.
Which can lead to terrorists being fingered by pigs.
Jane, I’m having trouble with the donation page. I start entering information here:
https://donate.firedoglake.com/tsa/contribute?&rc=postactionemail
but then it keeps jumping to a PayPal page. Is there a bug or is that they way it is supposed to work?
Oh, how very disgusting.
He reminds me of Rosa Parks.
Recently, only body cavity inspection distinguished airport security from a prison search. The scanners have erased that distinction. Fear and domestic control are the objects.
If enough folks like Tyner object and afterward demand refunds, or if we fly less and let airlines know why, then there might be a chance of limiting this control addiction.
The request for a congressional hearing regarding the TSA’s invasive searches is not likely to produce results for a long time, if ever. None of the other suggestions I have seen here make sense. There are two things that can be done to end the system of very expensive nonsense security that makes what used to be a pleasant form of travel a very distasteful one.
1. Organize a boycott of air travel. If you can’t get there by car, train or bus, don’t go. If even a small percentage of travelers engage in a boycott the airlines and the economy will feel it. A boycott will get the attention of the press and in fairly short order the Congress and the Executive Branch. The boycott must be organized. A broad spectrum of people, right to left are likely to support it, if it is properly put together by a coalition.
2. If you must travel by air insist on the pat down and object to the method used. Insist on talking to a supervisor. It won’t take a large percentage of the flying public to slow the system to a crawl by doing this.
It will take time and money to organize this type of civil resistance. It can be done and it can be effective.
read post comment on thisNo Comments Recommend Edit
Instead of a petition, why not links to the airlines’ contact people? We could just send letters/calls saying we will not fly, or we will only fly when absolutely necessary (I don’t know too many people planning month-long cruises to Europe these days), until TSA is abolished/reined in. That would be more effective, IMHO.
Popular Mechanics did a good job of debunking the truthers’ pet theories. The article is probably still available online. Take a look.
As SpeakupNation infers…IF we let these asswipes scare us into submission and utter subjugation, just how long does any one here or anywhere, think it will take for the very next step… which will be gulag camps with death squads that employ tazering corrals, and torture chambers, and a myriad of other unimaginable horrors that they have already sanctioned with unabashed glee???
I say we are already on the cusp of that coming down very soon, and the whole security scanner-pat-down mindset and reality is the exact ‘test their will’ scenario that will usher in the next NeoNazi phase to eliminate the unwanted by eradicating the serfs that are the middle class, poor, and downtrodden citizens of the Republic of Pain.
If we do not find the intestinal fortitude, the will, and the wisdom to resist and fight this dark wave of evil, then we will be swallowed up by it in short order!
It is very plain and crystal clear to see the TSA and the MOTU’s intent, if not, we are fucking blind and will indeed be sheep led to slaughter!
The TSA are really the largest and ugliest public face of the New American fascism. They were created out of the airport customs operations and i can attest from personal experience, the full time customs guys are now and have always been the kind of “officers” comfortable with agressive fascist police-state tactics. When I was a kid, a senior in high school, I worked as a baggage screener at BWI. We were not thought of as “officers” of any kind, more like sky caps.We called the old,bald,mean customs officer who supervised us “Himmler”. We worked for the airport, not some federal police apparatus. I dont fly anymore except on the rare-ist of occasions (once in the last 6 years) and was appalled to see what it had become. I was unfortunate enough to have lost my photo ID in the cab on the way to the airport! I was hassled and treated like i might be a foriegn “terrrist” by the dumbest, most ignorant, lumpen proletariat wash outs known to man-the average big airport TSA personell. I was on my way to one of their rooms when an old freind walked by; i guy i went to school with and worked at the airport with way back when. He is a TSA captain now. He pulled me out of there and walked with me to the airlines gate. We talked about music and old times then that was it, and THEN, he came back and said, “sorry, I forgot to watch you through the metal detector”. He pulled out a hand unit, waved it around in front of me and that was it.I flew without any ID at all. Fascist power is always arbitrarily applied.
Yeah right. Lol. Meigs? Please. Even Fox is opening up.
Alex Jones has some great articles on this subject on infowars.com. Drudge has been linking to them regularly, and the issue has broken through to the traditional media.
Glad you’re piling on, Jane. This is an issue we can really get a major victory on.
Perhaps you would consider joining Max Keiser’s campaign to crash JP Morgan by buying silver? If Americans can unite to take a scalp from the universally despised elite banksters, we will really be on our way to restoring our representative voice in the swamp on the Potomac.
Hopefully this catches on to people who haven’t been paying attention
I put together a little series on this last Winter and need to get back to it and add more. But in any event here’s what I have so far
Chertoff and Rapiscan
McConnell and Booz Allen, among others in the Complex
Yemen’s place on the Grand Chessboard. Be sure to click on the first two links at the top for questions not asked about the underwear bomber
And the first in the series
So is it against the law to wear a cup or a truss to the airport? I mean, if I have a problem and need to wear medical devices, it’s important I do so…
The things you want cost tons and tons of money. And you don’t even think the mods should be paid until things are more to your liking — remember when you tried to discourage people from donating so they could make a living? I can tell you it’s something I’ll never forget.
You don’t seem to get it. You messed with people’s livelihoods. There’s no “we” after that. The idea that we’d ask your opinion before we did something, or change things so you’ll spend more time here, is abjectly laughable.
The fact that you hate nested comments probably just gave them a new lease on life.
i’m an architect. i work with engineers. 1300 of them could very easily be wrong on any given day of the week.
show me the facts.
The TSA groping is indeed an outrage. But it is hardly new. Those of us who are on the no-fly list are already familiar with it.
There’s nothing quite like the nasty mix of acute mortification and exalted sense of power that comes over a kid barely out of his teens when you give him a uniform and a pair of nitrile gloves and turn him loose on the genitalia of a man old enough to be his father. It’s half frightening and half funny. Just don’t dare joke about it–uniformed children appear to lack all sense of humor, and they have the power to arbitrarily ruin your day, at the very least.
Power is what this is about, of course. Frightened people are supposed to be easier to control, and nothing instills fear like an intimidating person holding your privates. Even if you recognize the trick, you can’t help but be a little worried. Grabbing your genitals is just a little too reminiscent of the Black Sites, rendition flights, hoods and diapers, and Abu Ghraib. It suggests what can happen to those that do not toe the line.
Now that the rest of you get to share the experience, I wonder what will happen? Their hope over in the Security State is that you have gotten used to the idea during its use on minority, so you will accept the new reality after minimal protest. My hope is that giving everyone who flies a taste will make the outrage neither minimal nor shortlived.
On the other hand, I can’t help wondering what they’d do if all of us not only insisted on the groping but enthusiastically participated: “Go ahead, son! Reach on in thar and git a good grip. See what shakes loose! It’s for Amurrica!”
Spot on. I can find plausibility almost any 9/11 conspiracy theory except the one that claims that the planes did not bring down the building. I’ve worked with civil engineers too (and architects) enough to suspect that quite a few of these people on these petitions are not entirely what they claim. Nothing alerts my radar like people who expect me to accept assertions on the basis of professional credentials rather than facts and professional explanations.
I’ve written about the sometimes surprising effects of fire on structures before. So I’ll just say that based on such knowledge as I have, no one has said anything that contradicts the official story of the collapse. Moreover, the very notion that someone managed to secretly coordinate a large-scale demolition with simultanous airplane crashes is ludicrous.
If the official account is suspect anywhere, it is not in the explanation of the collapse. It is the explanation of the initiation, financing, and organization of the attacks that is inconsistent and implausible. It seems likely that more people would be needed to support the hijackers: to provide travel documents, rent safe houses, arrange transportation, open bank accounts, translate, handle communications, etc. All of this would be expensive, so expensive that it seems like a state sponsor would be essential.
So I have to ask, what purpose do these outlandish notions about the causes of the structural failure serve? I suggest that they serve to obscure the agency behind the attacks. If the centers of power in this country want to hide anything, it is the state actor and financier behind the attacks: the Saudi monarchy that enriches itself at our expense, bribes our politicians, conspires with our wealthy elites, oppresses its own people, blames us, and then wages war against us covertly.
-Not hardly.
-Popular Mechanics is NOT a peer reviewed journal of science. It’s a Hearst car and gadgets reviews rag.
-Nobody with any training in any scientific discipline contributed to that Popular Mechanics article. Micheal Chertoff’s cousin Ben Chertoff was one of the authors.
I’ve given the link to Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth a couple times.
http://www.ae911truth.org/
You’re welcome to it. Talk to them. They’re good guys. As long as you don’t scream “You’re the Anti-Christ.” a couple inches from their face. That can get old.
Here’s some truth about those fires.
-There’s only been 3 steel structured building collapse due to “fire.” The Twin Towers and Building 7. 2 aircraft. 3 collapsed buildings.
-And that’s it. No other steel structured building has ever collapsed due to fire. There’s been a few that have had fires really raging. None other than those 3 building has ever collapsed.
Jet A fuel does not burn hot enough to compromise the structural integrity of structural steel beams. Not by half.
What material are most of the parts of jet engines made of? Steel alloys. The same material the steel beams in WTC 1,2, and 7 are made of. Would they make jet engines out of steel alloys if they had to worry about a jet fuel leak making that jet engine fall apart or melt within roughly 60 minutes. Not only no. Fuck no.
My dad had a PhD in what is now called Material Engineering from a Big-10 school. He made special alloys for a living (mostly for Detroit).
Hit ‘em where it hurts. Boycott all non essential airline travel. The scanners will ‘go away’ in a virtual heartbeat.
Enjoy.
If the TSA buys you dinner before they “pat you down” can you order off the menu or al a carte? And after is there a place where you can smoke?
One other thing “robspierre”
“So I have to ask, what purpose do these outlandish notions about the causes of the structural failure serve? I suggest that they serve to obscure the agency behind the attacks. If the centers of power in this country want to hide anything, it is the state actor and financier behind the attacks: the Saudi monarchy that enriches itself at our expense, bribes our politicians, conspires with our wealthy elites, oppresses its own people, blames us, and then wages war against us covertly.”
Why do you think Al-Queda guys living in caves in Central Asia are capable of superhuman Bond/comic book villian-esque deeds.
And guys like me… in my case disabled guys like me with too much time on my hands to kill… people like me are now personally plotting with the Saudi monarachs…
But those guys that work for 17 different US Federal agencies that are in the Intelligence business collecting a salary training their whole frackin’ lives… years… decades perfecting their special operation techniques… 20,000 employees just the CIA lists. Those 20,000 people working for the CIA, and at least as many working for the other 16 Federal Intel agencies.
They’re incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.
Forget the 40,000 people the US Federal Gov’t has training in special operations. Worry about the disabled guy. He’s the threat. The guy in a Central Asia cave. That’s the treat.
40,000 guys training in spec-ops work. Harmless.
Disabled guy on computer, and guy in central asia cave. Supervillian.
Listen to yourself, dude.
Jane
I’m surprised at the poor quality of your arguments. I never said anything about moderator’s pay. I did NOT suggest people refrain from contributing, in fact I sent a small check. I took you to task for seeming to promise an alternative to the Dems, something I see as essential, a representation you withdrew in favor of paying the mods. I did not take a positon on nested comments. I merely said some people came on to say they didn’t like them. I’m not sure nested or unnested comments matter since comments keep floating by. One thing there’s no shortage of is comments.
Yes, what I have in mind takes lots of money. There might be money returned if it can be turned into a business. The important thing is there’s no alternative. If you think on line petitions will do it, I’m afraid you will be as disappointed as you were with the public option. That’s a prediction. When it comes to the future, anyone’s guess works. Perhaps online petitions will save the day. If not, I wonder how long it will take for you to decide you bark up the wrong tree. Just cause I’m a pain in the ass doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
I know it’s generally believed we cannot agree on anything. I’ve heard of intentional communities who try to rule by consensus who get hung up for weeks on what color to paint a room. Somehow we’ve got to realize the group matters. As for starting my blog, as I’ve said I tried it with no success. I also, as I said, wrote a book which I think explains why we are the way we are (we’ve been driven crazy by inferiority) for which I can’t get an agent let alone a publisher.
We are very into what I call ‘collective thinking’, agreements about what we perceive as our ‘reality’. When we try to explain what appears to be an objective, outside world with science we are on firmer ground since we get feedback although we have been wrong even there. We once thought the sun revolved around the earth. When we deal in unverifiable matters which we do mostly, things like God, truth, beauty, good, evil one man’s perception is as good as multitudes. Just because I can’t create a blog with followers doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
Yes
i don’t travel much. But next time I do… my plan is to stand in front of those machines and strip. Take off my clothes. After all, why should so few strangers get to see me naked? I’m 60. I look pretty damn good. But I will not worry that this will be perceived as a ploy for sexual attention. I would not necessarily want to see my naked body go viral but it would go further than any petition to make the point about the kind of abuse that is going on.
I think it would be more fun to pretend you’re Meg Ryan (I think it was her) at the diner in that movie, where she was with Tom Hanks and pretended to have an orgasm. Just refuse the xray and wait for the groping, and start the show!
Ms. Hamsher – Study after study has determined the back-scatter scanner is safe, effective and the images are not stored, printed or in anyway visible other than to a trained specialist in a completely different location from the scanner and the person being scanned. Like driving, flying is a privilege, not a right and for the safety and security of the traveling public the TSA is tasked with making sure the people getting on an airplane are not carrying weapons. And believe me – they find weapons every day.
I suppose we would rather have our privates blown all over the heavens from an explosion than to have an x-ray image of them briefly visible to a trained professional in another room. We say we’re worried about our children? How stupid will we feel when a plane full of innocents is blasted out of the sky because of our childish and prudish ways?
And anyone aroused by these images as porn perhaps has other issues than we’re talking about here. The faces are blurred and so is the genital area. This is just sensationalistic yellow journalism pure and simple.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t think about adjusting the process to make it a little less draconian but people get educated! Metal detectors detect only metal. Anyone with a plastic knife, gun (yes they do exist) or plastic explosive can walk right on board and cause all kinds of mayhem. The back-scatter machine detects non-metal components secreted on the human body.
If we really want to solve the issue then in my view perhaps we should start with US government policies that make us targets of the terrorists to begin with. Can anyone say blind support of Israeli government policies? Can anyone say hundreds of thousands of dead Muslims from Afghanistan to Palestine? Rightly or wrongly these are the drivers that are used to recruit those who would do us harm. Think about it next time you are at airport security.
Frank of America – Who told you life is risk free?
There’s much, much, much, much greater chance of you getting killed driving to the airport to catch that flight, than there is for your “privates blown all over the heavens from an explosion” on that flight.
Are you going to stop flying because driving could smear your “privates blown all over the heavens from an explosion” during a car accident gas tank explosion?
Of course this government push for full body scanners seriously intensified after the Christmas Day “underwear bomber” last year after the Flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit. Right?
But in a Congressional Hearing last January 27 it was revealed that the underwear bomber was being tracked and was ALLOWED to enter into the U.S.
Here’s that part of the Congressional Hearing transcript:
REP. THOMPSON: Okay. So — all right. So he has a visa. So what does that do? In the process, does it revoke the visa? Does it —
MR. KENNEDY: We — as I mentioned in my statement, Mr. Chairman, if we unilaterally revoked a visa — and there was a case recently up — we have a request from a law enforcement agency to not revoke the visa. We came across information; we said this is a dangerous person. We were ready to revoke the visa. We then went to the community and said, should we revoke this visa? And one of the members — and we’d be glad to give you that out of — in private — said, please do not revoke this visa. We have eyes on this person. We are following this person who has the visa for the purpose of trying roll up an entire network, not just stop one person. So we will revoke the visa of any individual who is a threat to the United States, but we do take one preliminary step. We ask our law enforcement and intelligence community partners, do you have eyes on this person, and so you want us to let this person proceed under your surveillance so that you may potentially break a larger plot?
REP. THOMPSON: Well, I think that the point that I’m trying to get at is, is this just another box you’re checking, or is that some security value to add in that box, to the list?
MR. KENNEDY: The intelligence and law enforcement community tell us that they believe in certain cases that there’s a higher value of them following this person so they can find his or her co-conspirators and roll up an entire plot against the United States, rather than simply knock out one soldier in that effort.
————————————————-
Any questions?
Just for a source verification here is the link to the actual audio/video of this Congressional Hearing. The above verbal exchange starts at the 34:12 point into the meeting. LINK: http://homeland.edgeboss.net/wmedia/homeland/chs/flight253.wvx
I didn’t imply that life was risk free, far from it. I just said flying, like driving is not a right. My point is we childishly and prudishly are raising a ruckus over this type of scanning when its another tool in the kit to detect weapons and explosives. And anyone calling the resultant images porn is, in my view, guilty of yellow journalism. Who would get off on these images?