Let’s see, force Americans to pay hundreds of dollars out of pocket for a monopolized product that will only increase in price as time wears on………..to come to the conclusion that this will not make life better for people I would say one does not need a poll to find out that this is true…………..

Let’s see, force Americans to pay hundreds of dollars per month out of pocket for a monopolized product that will only increase in price as time wears on………..to come to the conclusion that this will not make life better for people I would say one does not need a poll to find out that this is true…………..

Can someone offer a complete explanation for why most of the HCR features will not kick in for a few years? What’s the point and supposed benefit, if any? I’m serious.

I believe they call that, “kicking the can down the road.”

Let some other president deal with it.

No one should be all that surprised by the results of the poll. Much of the debate and most of the benefits were an abstraction for folks with employer-sponsored plans; none of this will hit home until four (or five) figure annual deductibles with minimal employer contributions to premiums become the norm. Which they will.

I think the post explains it.

I’m not sure I have this exactly right, but I believe the ‘nonpartisan’ (bwahhahahahaha) CBO, grades the fiscal impact over 10 years, so by postponing any benies for years, there is a USB fiscal ‘savings.’

Make that USG, not USB.

I really don’t think that the Republicans will find it very difficult to dismantle this leaky rowboat. The unfortunate thing is that they have little interest in putting much of anything in its place. This is yet another serious problem for Americans that is being used as a political ping pong ball between two neoliberal parties.

Well, a few features are already in effect:

1. Adult children stay on parents health care plan until they are 26 years old

2. You can not be denied health care due to pre-existing conditions

3. If you always pay your premiums and are up to date, you can’t have your policy suddenly cancelled if you get sick and have a lengthy hospital stay

As for forcing people to buy premiums out of pocket from private health insurers, the answer is obvious. Wave the red flag of a massive “tax” increase which is what mandating people to buy a product from a private monopoly is would have completely destroyed Obama and the Democrats (it happened to the Congressional Democrats this year anyway of course) but the thinking is that the massive tax increase which is what mandating private health insurance is will not take place until after the 2012 Presidential election. Otherwise, if you put this hundreds of dollars worth of tax increases in effect now then Obama might as well not run for reelection because he would be annihilated……………..That is why the tax increase part does not take effect until 2014, even after the midterm after the next presidential election…………….So there you have it……………..

When more and more people lose, or have to pay too much and have to drop their health care, that’s when real change will happen. It’s not bad enough for enough people yet. But that time will come, maybe sooner than we know.

The percentage of Americans who think the new health care law will make their lives and their families’ lives better is at an all time low

Were any corporations polled by Kaiser Family Foundation? I’m sure that a few of them are happy about it and that they’re the only ones Obama gives a shit about.

Seriously, did Obama think he could sneak a Republican plan by the American people and that we’d cheer him for it?

I identified the medical industry as a macroeconomic problem in 1991. Which happens to be almost 2 decades ago. If the people haven’t reacted yet, they probably won’t for another 10-20 years.

The point was to pass a shitty bill while keeping costs down (remember all the CBO scoring?). Jon pointed out many, many times that they could have included so many better and more cost-effective things, but didn’t. Instead, they kept in crap and paid for it by delaying the start of any supposed benefits.

The opportunity was squandered! Real HCR is about controlling cost and protecting Americans form insurance corporations who enjoy anti trust exemptions and tax exempt status. How the do you control healthcare costs, when America cannot control energy costs? DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

This is “bass-akwards” as they say. Energy cost escalate and the cost of everything goes up, including health insurance premiums. The HCR we got is corporate servitude, under fear of tax penalty. Real value for America again. Like the .80 cents of every American dollar wasted on gasoline. We have been fooled again. Love the modern day fugitive slave tax laws? Guess the due process rights of Americans are all subordinate to the corporatist desire to make money off our backs and misfortunes in life. BS101! America abolished slavery and it seems the corporations do everything to re institute it in a typical back-door way. Impose a premium on life itself? WTF!

Obama declared that it had to be CBO-tested “revenue neutral” over ten years, which dictated that the $1tn cost had to be covered by new taxes ($500bn) and Medicare cuts (Medicare Advantage — $500bn) that took effect immediately while the major benefits couldn’t kick in until four or five years later.

Does not seem like a fair trade off! Corporations will adapt like viruses to find a way to screw the consumer, period!

Heh. There’s a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day./s

I wonder if the CBO took into account the effect of lets say $160.00 per barrel oil? Doubt it!

I guess that our differing perceptions are great evidence of the lack of transparency and knowledge regarding this law. Perhaps Obama didn’t keep us posted and explain what he was doing? Is that possible?

President & CEO of Cigna is on Nightly Business Report (PBS) right now saying that he doesn’t think it’s in society’s best interests to repeal Obamacare. But he sure would like to see the costs of care come down.

Seriously.

If the situation stays this bad but doesn’t get worse, then I don’t think we will have any significant changes. But I don’t think the situation will stay like this, I think it will get worse for more people. That’s when I think we will have real change. The question then is, when will that be?

Governing is about delivering for the people. When Democrats utterly failed to deliver anything tangible with health care, it is no surprise the American electorate chose not to deliver for the Democrats.

the democrats learned NOTHING from the republicans, when they came into office they RAMMED everything they wanted, they POUNDED and pounded until their asinine policies sounded like qualified proposals

so what did the democrats do in the same position?

why, they did whatever the republicans wanted thats what, they bent over so far a person could ask, “why do democrats lick their balls”

they acted like republicans thinking they could get republican votes, they thought their democratic constituents had no where to go

they were right about that, they gave us nowhere to go so we didn’t go anywhere near the polling booths

I don’t know who said it but a great line, paraphrased I think;

“give a person a choice between a republican running as a republican and a democrat running as a republican they will vote for the republican”

good words there

Heh. Watching a slomo suicide.

One of the (many many many) lessons I learned as a forecaster (most of them the painful way) is: just becuz you learned about something today, doesn’t mean it’s new today or will be a problem for today.

Remember, as a macroeconomist, by the time an industry problem got on my radar screen, the evidence had to already exist for decades. So it’s not just the 2 decades I’ve known about it, it’s the other decades before I discovered it that the evidence accumulated, that I finally saw in 1991.

Excellent post Jon.

Contrast this piece of common sense, political philosophy 101 exhibited by Walker, with the daily contortions done by the Health Care Reform “is the most Progressive legislative accomplishment since FDR even though its basically Romney/HeritageCare” chorus of “smart” Proggies like Cohn, Chait, Ezra, et al.

Whatever.

I agree it will get a lot worse. The law of the unintended outcome will arise because of this law in a very BIG way.

Here’s an interesting example. In 1981, generic drug legislation was passed, courtesy of Waxman. Prior to 1981, patented drug prices increased LESS rapidly than overall prices. But 1981 legislation woke up PhRMA to increase prices more rapidly before the patent expired. In the process, they figured out that their product was price inelastic and the rest is history. Ever since 1981, patented drug prices have risen much more rapidly than overall inflation.

And that was 30 years ago. And what has happened since? PhRMA had captured the USG thru political contributions, and the problem has accelerated.

So problems getting worse could be the prelude to problems getting really really bad. Not the outcome you anticipate.

“”But he sure would like to see the costs of care come down.”"

Sure, just as oil corporations would love to see the cost of energy go down?
Did the slave owners give up their free labor, freely?

ROLMFAO…

Well, insurers like Cigna will watch their profits go up if they have to pay less to cover all their new customers, i.e. pay less for care.

This guy doesn’t give a shit about what’s in society’s best interests.

The Rs win all ways from Sunday. They can advance all the rhetoric against HCR, which the real peeps hate, do nothing on repealing it, while PhRMA & insurance profit handsomely, gaining them all the campaign contributions from same.

In the future, when those on the “Left” who still advocate this atrocious insurance corp. bailout law will they use as part of their argument that “the excise tax is a progressive tax” to win over swing or undecided voters.

That seems like a sure winning strategy, eh?

Agreed. That is why they should be chartered to serve the people and de-chartered when they do not. Corporations are amoral, they make money, that is their function. But the major wings of the Republican Party, getting them out of power is the key to reversing this.

This guy doesn’t give a shit about what’s in society’s best interests.

Nor did the slave-owners. They went to war to protect slavery and their way of doing business, at the expense of the republic! This is the reality we are looking at! Myopic self interest……….

Maybe Rove et al going after Palin will cause a Tea Party defection from the Republicans. Now all we need is for progressives to wake up and defect from the Democrats. There needs to be a four-party race in 2012.

I don’t know who said it

That would be “Give ‘em Hell” Harry S. Truman, perhaps the last real Democratic President. Carter was ok, but ineffective. And personally I’m not enthralled with LBJ, who did sign a lot of very good bills but also there was that little thing known as Vietnam.

Anyway. Pretty sure one of my fave Presidents said it.

Alan Grayson is about the only Democrat that has that “give ‘em hell” attitude anymore it seems.

The TPers have money & org to support them. The progressives have neither.

But I thought the AHIP crowd was against Obamacare… Wasn’t that what they said so that progressives would think it was just great? But the AHIP types were all for it and now don’t want Republicans to repeal it at all. This PBS interview tonight is a great example of the mealy-mouthed bullshit.

I agree with all of what you said, but IMO the American people did wake up (albeit after 3 decades) in 2008.

Most Americans knew what Democrats meant when they campaigned on health care, they knew it meant more government, if not outright single payer. And they voted overwhelmingly Democratic in 2008.

The magnitude of the opportunity wasted by these Democrats is mind boggling.

“I’ve seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows (her)self to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing…(s)he is sure to lose. The people don’t want a phony Democrat. If it’s a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don’t want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.”
-Harry S Truman

So, that folks can understand why at least one “Liberal” wants a new Democratic candidate in 2012, please, note and remember:

As soon as the election was over, during that crucial period when the agenda or at least the public expectations for the coming session are being formed by the political parties, political leaders, spinmeisters, etc., the President left the country.

Just like during the health care ‘debates’, Obama is LWOP.

The American people wanted Health Reform. In June 2009 (Remember? Right before the summer, when Obama went on vacation and the Republicans set the agenda in the townhalls.) Here’s what the people said they wanted:

June 2009, according to a New York Times/CBS poll:

” 72% of Americans ‘supported a government-administered insurance plan—something like Medicare for everyone.”

Obama and the Democrats gave us taxpayer support for private sector insurers at an overhead rate of 20% (20% of our premium can be spent on administration, CEO salaries, bonuses, sitting on Boards to set rates and decide who gets covered and who doesn’t).

72% of the American people wanted a government administered plan like Medicare – for everyone.

Just after last week’s election, the White House’s Director of Management and Budget, Peter Orszag, in the NYT November 3 2010 told us:

“There are four ways to contain health care costs: by reducing payments to providers and suppliers; by rationing services; by having consumers pay a greater share; and by giving providers incentives to be more efficient.”

The White House left out #5: The largest ‘savings’ is to reduce the subsidized overhead for private for-profit insurers.

Private for-profit profits are subsidized with tax dollars, tax dollars pad the private sectors ‘bottom line’. By stopping this laundering of tax money to the private sector, we can save billions.

The White House is silent on this travesty enacted into law in the Health Care Reform legislation.

Let’s face it. The Health Care Bill is (1) not what people wanted or expected, and (2) is indefensible.

Like the other Democrats who ‘ran away’ from their Health Care vote during the recent campaign, Obama is running away from any defense of it after the campaign.

While I’d love to have something to defend, the bill is basically indefensible.

This pattern of behavior is woven into the fabric of the Obama administration’s ‘governance style’.
and
That is primary reason I support dumping Obama in 2012.

Let’s cut to the chase: It has not made my life or insurance situation any better. What it has done is encourage BCBS to raise my family premiums for yet another year, and this time beyond my reach. Received the announcement of the increase last week.

When is the deadline by which we all are mandated to be insured “or else”? Because really I’m about to say fuck the whole thing and save up money for permanently moving to someplace more civilized like Canada. I’m sick of living in a country that I feel no emotional connection to and that I’m despising more every day. This country is getting downright unlivable. I shudder to think what it will be like ten or twenty years from now.

Healthcare Reform and Our Inconvenient Constitution

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/ThinkMarkets/2010/0404/Healthcare-reform-and-our-inconvenient-Constitution

There is a possible Republican supporter of Romney/Obama Health Reform. Chimpie!

Naturally the election came up in conversation. Trying to be even-handed and polite, the Brits said something diplomatic about McCain’s campaign, expecting Bush to express some warm words of support for the Republican candidate.

Not a chance. “I probably won’t even vote for the guy,” Bush told the group, according to two people present.“I had to endorse him. But I’d have endorsed Obama if they’d asked me.”

Look, Obama had to give insurance companies until 2014 so they could figure out ways to get around the regulations.

After all, this whole thing was about faux change.

Remember, Obama expressed concern about all the folks who work for these useless insurance companies.

Now had we enacted single payer that would have actually created jobs.

The Republicans (after repeal) want to do 3 main things to lower the cost of health care in America.

1. Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines.

2. Open “Small medical centers” and offer vouchers for the poor to take the weight off of the emergency centers.

3. Real tort reform. (John Edwards type ambulance chasers have seriously jacked up costs and made good doctors choose other professions.

They tried to offer these ideas but were shut out of committee meetings. Things will be different going forward. (thankfully)

And much better ideas. I don’t see anything “progressive” about the health care bill, the proposed “cap and trade,” card check, or giving illegals amnesty. How are these ideas “progressive?” They are all job killers in an already hurting economy. that is why the left was so soundly “shellacked” last week.

Germany has everything you mention, except “amnesty” (and they also do health care in a correct manner, not this manner) and is at a budget and trade surplus.

Explain that dichotomy from your worldview.

Good idea, let us shuffle off the lessor people so they are out of sight.

But your “Tort Reform” is code for the “haves-too-much”. It means steal the health care benefits from workers in the Asbestos industry. Chimpie was even dumb enough to actually say this in a State of the Union speech.

So why do you hate people who have Mesothelioma from asbestos exposure.

DEM DEFORMED, Deformed, deformed …

emptywheel is upstairs!
Torture? Check. Covering Up Torture? Check. Rule of Law? Nope.

One area I’m sure we do agree is cutting (drastically) our military spending.
One reason Germany (and countries all over the world) can afford to do more for their citizens is our over reaching military. I (along with more and more conservatives) say cut this along with other roll backs in spending in all layers of government.

This isn’t surprising: the overwhelming majority of Americans have health insurance, and so they’ll see nothing from Obama’s plan except the trickle of all these little, hidden taxes.

The debate over the public option was really a proxy debate for what we really want: a chance to buy into a public insurance option like Medicare, with lower administration fees, less denial of claims, and some chance of cost controls so we’ll all be able to afford health care. The public option was always defective, but it was at least a framework and an important symbol.

When they through that out the window, all you’re left with is a plan that looks guaranteed to raise health care prices and further bankrupt the nation in the outlying years with tax credits we can’t afford. And you know what, Obamacare STILL won’t get much credit even for those who take advantage of those tax credits.

If you want people to appreciate a government program, do what private companies do: provide an obvious benefit for the cost. If you’re providing access to health care, enroll people in a plan that does that and send them a card to that effect. That’s why Social Security and Medicare are popular, and the Obamacare corporatist tax credit scheme NEVER EVER EVER will be.

I don’t “hate” anyone, including you Frank. If you have a good case bring it. If you are chasing the “lottery litigation awards” then be prepared to pay for the other sides cost should you lose. Just like most other civilized nations.

We need to bring down our health care costs for all. Bringing your “why do you hate” BS into the equation solves nothing. Whether you like it or not, the right now has a lot of power (and will be rising, best to work with us over the years I think.

I don’t know how anyone could resist such a magnanimous invitation.

scroll…

That part you mention about including the older youngsters, to age 26, is to me is one of the best of the fluff. “loss leaders” just sounds good, but cost them zilch.

Between the years of 18 and 26 are among the best years of life. past the point of teenage stupidity and youthful inexperience, and yet in the prime of life, and indisputably, in the utmost years of the expectation of health in life.

IOW’s not the worst “tranch” for the beneficiaries of medical coverage for insurance providers. They know well this is a wonderful gesture which will cost relatively little.

To include this portion of the population which, let’s face it, needs help in the low employment environs today : It behooves us to: “give em some space, so’s they can be happier living with mom/dad etc. “

But that is to buy time. It won’t cost em much, and seems like an improvement…
what kind of improvement is that, to have kids 26 yrs. old still hanging around? With not much prospects of employment.

This thing is prelude to a nightmare in the offing, (I hope I’m too pessimistic.) But by the year 2014… just think about where it will be… That is when you get some benefits, how dumb we are as a people, how dumb we are as a sheeple… too ready to be fleeced and greased.

Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines.

The end result of this one is that the insurance companies would offer plans nationwide centered in those states that offer the absolute fewest regulations and constraints — rather like the banks do with the credit cards by offering them from South Dakota and Delaware.

Meaning the insurance companies would go out of their ways to be unresponsive.

And check out how well Texas has done and how much costs have gone down there since they instituted “tort reform” a few years ago. (Hint: the answer is the costs have not gone down nor have the health care outcomes improved)

I just did bring a good case, with linkies. You have not presented any sources to support your tort reform nonsense. Tort Reform is just another neo-con conspiracy. You people want to take away the rights of real people to get justice. You people want the Justice system to only serve the rich. You have already proposed dual health system, to discriminate against the have-nots.

As for your being so scared about all the power, the “right” has, that is your problem. You misinterpreted this election. It is not about right versus left. It is all about Corporations versus the people.

Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines.

LOL, if your Red State wants to allow out of state insurance companies over which it has little/no control to sell whatever policies the least-regulated state in the Union allows, go right ahead.

It will lower costs at the expense of killing people.

It made it look like the bill was cheaper than it actually was. Only about a 7 month delay was need to for most of it to get things set up.

Eli is upstairs!
Why Does Michael Kinsley Hate America?

Good point. Notice: no answer, just change the subject!

And, they gave the banks and credit card houses like a year to screw the public without retroactive penalties under Credit Card Reform.

In my world things would be better here today if we would have held down spending beginning with Bush (W) It was not his taxes that got us in bad financial shape, it was his two wars (I was against Iraq from day 1) and never vetoing a spending bill. We are not in the financial position to enact more spending and must cut back in all areas now.

(There’s your answer)

We are not in the financial position to enact more spending and must cut back in all areas now.

“We”? Do you have a frog in your pocket? Cutting is the absolute wrong answer. The real economic solution is a Solar/Hydrogen massive jobs program to make every home energy self sufficient.

Social Security benefits should be expanded, with rich people paying higher taxes to support that. Of course all or most of the subsidies to corporations should be stopped and they should start paying taxes. In fact there should be a national program for full employment.

Somebody’s lost on their way to Red State and talking in their sleep.

We just need to accept the fact that we, as a country, are … What word am I looking for?… Hmmmm….. I know… STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think they could have passed that in Jan 09 as a health insurance reform bill instead of the drama that was the most “HISTORIC!!!” health care reform ever.

It did seem at the time it was what the dems wanted to run on in 2010. Funny how it never really came up this fall.