Peter Orszag has an oped in the New York Times regarding Social Security. It’s full of the usual Orszag claptrap in which he sets himself up as the sober, responsible judge, while “the left… seems adamantly opposed to restoring actuarial balance to Social Security.”
Orszag ends with this:
Given the left’s strident opposition to any serious discussion of Social Security reform, the issue will provide a key early indicator of the administration’s response to the election results.
While I don’t want to put words in his mouth, it’s hard to interpret this in any way other than “now that voters have handed the Democrats their asses, it’s time to stand up to the left and start hacking away at Social Security” – especially since Orszag touts his own Diamond/Orszag plan, which calls for a reduction in benefits for those who are now under 55.
Orszag may not work in the administration any more, but his voice is clearly one that the President respects. Indeed, much of Obama’s own messaging on the issue reflects what Orszag is saying here.
And that should worry everyone, because after listening to the President’s press conference yesterday, I think the message the White House has taken away from the election results is seriously wrong.
I’ve written about Stan Greenberg’s and James Carville’s polling on what messages were most likely to move “winnable” voters to Democrats. They found that there were two dominant messages and attacks:
1. The first and strongest centers on changing Washington to work for the middle class and American jobs, not corporations and Wall Street. It is strengthened by attacks on Social Security and Medicare, critical for the middle class. The messages are strongest with voters under 40, younger women and unmarried women. It is strong with ‘winna-ble’ and base voters – giving it greater prominence.
2. The second, very strong message, centers on made in America, creating American jobs and opposing Republicans who support trade agreements and tax breaks for companies that export American jobs. This message is powerful with older women and seniors – and it is buttressed by attacks on Social Security and Medicare and on trade issues.
What was the weakest messaging?
The weakest messages assert we should “go forward, not back.” Voters are not moved by Democratic messages that say ‘go forward, not back,’ mention President Bush, compare then and now, or even that hint the economy is “showing signs of progress.” No matter how dramatically these messages set out the record of Republican obstruction-ism, their work for the wealthiest and Goldman Sachs, the millions of jobs lost and Democrats’ support for jobs, small business and new industries – these messages falter before the Republican attack.
Greenberg and Carville measured the “shift” when respondents were read different messaging. The greatest “shift” came when respondents were read the first and second messages, about standing up to corporations and Wall Street, protecting Social Security, and opposing “free trade” agreements. After hearing those, there was a net shift of +9 toward the Democrat.
On the other hand, the “blame Bush,” “go forward, not backward” and “the economy is showing signs of progress” messaging — the principle messaging being used by Obama and the DNC for the past year — resulted in a two point shift toward the Republicans:
Let’s say it again. The messaging being used for the past year by Obama, as head of the Democratic Party, results in a two point shift towards the Republicans.
Yesterday in his press conference, did Obama say he’ll protect Social Security and Medicare? They weren’t actually mentioned.
Did he say he’ll stand up to corporations and Wall Street? No, he said he was worried that “business took the message that, well, gosh, it seems like we may be always painted as the bad guy. ” He said he was “talking to CEO’s constantly” and that “a whole bunch of corporate executives are going to be joining us” on his upcoming trip to Asia.
Did he say he’ll fight free trade agreements? No, he said the focus of his upcoming trip was going to be “how are we going to open up markets so that American businesses can prosper.” And on election day, he “personally assured his South Korean counterpart about prospects for a long- delayed free trade pact that his administration is working hard to advance.”
Now Orszag wants Obama to respond to the election results by standing up to the “left” and pushing through a plan (like his) that would cut Social Security benefits to reduce the deficit, wrapped in some bullshit about “saving” Social Security.
A recent AARP poll found that 85 percent of adults oppose cutting Social Security to reduce the deficit, and that 72 percent “strongly oppose” doing so. That’s not the “left” of anything.
The “message” of the election was that Obama (and the Democrats) aren’t doing what people think they should be doing, so they’re going to try the other guys again for a while. And the only person who could possibly be recommending that Obama reduce the deficit on the backs of Social Security beneficiaries must have some kind of death wish for the Democratic party.




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must have some kind of death with for the Democratic party
wish
This guy (Obomber) Jane is a republican. I’ve been saying this for a while. I know much of the dem party is center right but I really believe obomber is more comfortable with conservative ideology.
I’m inclined to believe he was pleased with tuesday’s results.
Obama is a NeoCon Republican who continues to mouth NeoCon Republican “talking points,” platitudes and philosophy. It is who is he is: a NeoCon corportist plant.
Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck & Sarah Palin are the leading lights (and best paid) in the ongoing brainwashing of so-called “Tea Party” boomers to believe that they have *no right* to *expect* either Soc Sec or Medicare, even though we’ve all been paying our own money into both for decades.
Beck assumed the guise of a tent-show revival preacher for several reasons (one of them is because he can make huge bucks in this role), one of the most important of which was brainwashing Tea Partiers to believe that they should ask “God” to take care of them, not the gov’t.
Don’t expect the Tea Partiers to protest the gutting of Soc Sec & Medicare. I *might* be wrong, but I don’t think so. Just saying…
That wasn’t an election.
There are many names for it, but election isn’t one of them.
“standing up to the left”? After Tuesday, his ass ought to be burning like it was spanked by a frat-boy’s paddle at initiation.
But no, seeing the forest for the trees is not in BHO’s skill set. Instead he’s content to mouth the DINO platitudes, and pretend that he’s unhappy with the change in the House.
I’m guessing he’ll get the message in a big way when the first of Issa’s subpoena comes sailing in the front door looking for his birth certificate.
Let’s see if it’s high-fives around the Oval Office when that shit starts happening.
We get nothing from personalizing this, or from calling Obama names. We anger the people who like Obama, and aid his enemies.
We have to pound on one idea: Good Policy is Good Politics. That is something we can do useful and positive.
jesus Jane,
didn’t you actually call the timing of this Orszag Op/Ed in one of your many SS posts ?!?
btw, no one’s asked but I found the WH’s public cat fight with Orszag of a few weeks back, highly suspect
Here’s some “serious discussion” for you, Petey: Remove the earnings cap on SS withdrawal, and adjust in a real COLA. For starters.
Strident that, jerkweed.
Obama and the sellouts and enablers infesting the Democratic Party got the policy wrong. And they got the politics wrong, too.
Uh.
Obama and the failures leading the Democratic Party have to go.
May I suggest a 50-State Strategy Write-In Campaign that gives all Obama voters in 2008 the opportunity to make a statement in 2012 by voting for “Obama A. Sellout” or something similar? I think it would get noticed in the months before the election.
Jane – I seriously think our only question now is whether to focus on a primary challenge to Obama – with the goal of moving him left, and then when that doesn’t work – to move into third party territory. Just writing more blogs pointing out this stuff is going to get us nowhere.
This wasn’t an election, it was an inteersting exercise in public manipulation and propagnada.
The exercise proved that the majority of the American populace is still easily duped
When he cuts social security and medicare, it will be the end of the democrat party as we know it…Along with his chance at re election….
I believe that Nancy Pelosi got the shaft as she and the dems in the house did the heavy lifting while Reid and the House of Lords just stood around in a circle doing squat…
Reid needs to be removed from a leadership position…McConell uses him like a $10 whore..
Might I ask just when was the last time Mr. Orzag, Mr. Geithner, Mr. Summers or any of Robert Rubin’s little protegees actually had to worry about whether they had a job, or enough money to pay their monthly bills?
Not one of those men has any feeling for the middle class. Yet these are the men whom Obama chose for his cabinet. Obama has been, and remains, too impressed by the moneyed, educated elite.
“Given the left’s strident opposition to any serious discussion of Social Security reform…”
Well, fuckity fuck you, Peter. Jane, go ahead and put words in his mouth, Orszag does it to the left all the time.
I, for one, sure hope Obama changes his messaging. If 2010 was a tsunami, 2012 will be polar ice caps melting. In 12 hours.
My wishes: world peace and for people on this blog to stop using “Democrat Party”. C’mon, people.
The message was that if you’re not going to do what you promised, then what good are you?
We didn’t get a return to the rule of law. Instead, we got coverups and expiring statutes of limitations.
We didn’t get investment bankers thrown in jail for their crimes. Instead, we gotter bigger bonuses for investment bankers and families thrown out on the streets.
We didn’t get healthcare. Instead, we got required to purchased health “insurance” from the same companies that skim our healthcare dollars to give big salaries to those at the top and resist paying for our healthcare when it’s needed.
If you’re not going to do what you promised, then what good are you?
Geez, can’t believe it took polling to come up with that. I knew that in the Spring of 09 when I didn’t see bankers in handcuffs. We could have owned that issue if we’d had a democrat in the white house.
Let me just take a wild guess. Um….Never?
A-fucking-men. Well said.
We’re gonna have to count on Nancy Pelosi stopping another predatory President, this time one of her own party, from stripping Social Security out of the American compact with seniors. Challenges to her leadership (looking at you, Heath Schuler) are all about getting our money out of T-bills and onto Wall Street, inflating the next bubbles.
Yeah, you may be right masacio but I really don’t care what the obomber kool-aid drinkers think. They ought to be pissed knowing their guy supports drone attacks killing a high number of innocents. Then of course there are the wars and his willingness to kill americans without due process.
On second thought, obomber may be the nicest thing I can say about him!
Jane, I’ll add my support to Jim’s idea.
At some point all the complaining is not going to sway people like massacio who (@6) still seem to believe the system has not been utterly and finally hijacked. Good Policy is Good Politics only if one can practice politics, and neither arm of our UniParty is interested in practicing anything – except rape.
What Obama needs to hammer home is how successful, in fact, the TARP program has been.
[/Yglesias]
Well, I WISH DEM Obummer GAS (Gave A Shill)! I’m not taking any of this post-campaign pitch-slapping in any case!! Obamavilla-in FORECLOSURE: 2012!!!
I generally agree. Most of us here know the issues. In my case I voted Green, period.
It’s a “tell.” It makes me skip right over the comment, entirely.
Saves time arguing, too!
And, if you’re going to be not all that different from the Bush who came before you, why should we care if you’re replaced in Jan 2013 by another charlatan with an “R” after his or her name?
Better and just-as-empty promises going into 2012 aren’t going to save you this time.
Fight the corporatists and sellouts who’re ruining this country and get something to show for it, or expect to lose in 2012.
Jane Hamsher -
in the wake of tuesday’s bloodbath (and I did read that WSJ pc about the establishment Dems kvetching about WH mid term efforts) …
what are the chances that support for this railroading is diminished among Senators and Reps ?
26 meant as a reply to Jo @ 15
I think that might be just a little bit more accurate.
People love progressive values but hate wishy-washy, non committal bullsh*t. Most people will choose a known evil over an unknown. Any day, any time, anywhere. Even though the Republicans do nothing but lie, they do it with masterful conviction. Besides, after the last two years of more of the same, what did voters have to lose voting for Republicans? They already know Democrats won’t deliver on promises.
No question about it. If jobs and real mortgage relief had been the central focus in early 2009, things wouldn’t look quite so bleak right now. Further, the Democratic party would not have taken the 11/02/10 ass-kicking royale.
Jane, you’re predicating your entire post on the notion that Orszag indirectly reflects thinking within the administration. Normally, I would agree with that, but we just had an episode regarding the Bush tax cuts where Orszag had an Op-Ed in the times completely undercutting the administration’s position on tax cuts(i.e<250,000). Then as that Op-Ed got more publicity there were multiple articles saying how the administration basically views this guy as benedict Arnold, and how he didn't get along with anyone when he was there. I think it's pretty safe to say that he isn't on Obama's speed dial, or even reflecting Obamas views. I think Summers is the guy who, once he leaves, we can basically see as representing the administrations leanings and viewpoints.
Agreed.
But you won’t get anywhere with that idea with the Democrats. They started out with 60 Seats, 257 House Seats, and before it was all said and done, their biggest accomplishment was the Lilly Ledbetter Act……….
I voted Green for a number of races on my ballot. I voted Dem for some State and Local offices, where I felt the Dem was worthy of my vote. I left some choices blank because I didn’t like anyone running. It’s like that for me now. I am getting much more serious about working with the Greens from here on.
The Dems at the federal level are mostly all beyond disgust. They are NOT working for Main St, they are solely & only working for the Olgiarchs.
That is one message that needs to be promulgated as far & wide as possible, imo.
Jane,
I think the “message” of this election was pretty simple:
American voters of below average intelligence, in a fit of panic and desparation, voted for the final nail in their coffins…………….
Yep. If Obama isn’t challenged from the left, I’ll write my own name in or vote Green. I think it’s time to coordinate our efforts right now. The more viable a left challenger is, the better for our country. And Obama is finished anyway. Stick a fork in him.
Sure, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. are fair game. Meanwhile, bloated Pentagon budgets, agribiz subsidies, etc. are sacred cows. Tells you who the assholes in DC really care about.
Fixed it for you.
You got it. I am astounded when I see them on tv… they get that wide-eyed innocent look, head up, shoulders back and lie like sin. If you didn’t know better you’d think they believed what they are saying.. That’s what really spooks me about Marco Rubio…. such a pretty boy and so poisonous.
If we’re going to start giving weight to what people say, then we have to be fair and look at Obama’s own words regarding SS from last week when Obama he met with progressive bloggers and was asked directly about raising the retirement age to 70(the conventional solution coming from the village). His response below:
Now, of course, with Obama it’s always in the actions, and not the words. But if we’re going to hold him to that standard, then lets hold ourselves to that standard and stop trying to psychoanalyze what the guy is thinking before he’s proposed anything.
That depends on your perspective. TARP is earning interest on its investment, and it did stop the crisis from being worse than it was – but it has still enriched the people who created the crisis and instituted no measure of accountability to prevent it from happening again. It’s like a doctor removing a tumor from your lung, but then handing you a pack of cigarettes and saying, “Keep on smoking, dude!”
You want some Social Security reform? Here you go:
SS is supposed to be one-third of your retirement plan, the other two parts being individual savings and a defined benefit pension.
Defined benefit pensions in the private sector are a thing of the past. In the public sector they are at risk due to poor investments and the likelihood of inadequate funding going forward.
Savings?
article
So your SS reform looks like this:
1) reduce the retirement age to 55 to encourage older workers to leave the workforce and leave the few available jobs to younger people.
2) supply current benefits to prosperous retirees who pass a means test, and double benefits for the remaining retirees to compensate for the demise of defined benefit pensions.
3) redeem the bonds in the trust fund by raising taxes on the wealthy.
4) put a floor on the payroll tax (lowest-income people pay nothing), remove the cap on the payroll tax, then make it progressive if necessary to fund increased benefits.
There. Problem solved.
Several wars, a lame duck prez who hasn’t a clue about anything, a House that will send bills to the Senate which will do nothing, and the establishment Rs trying to control the tea baggers. It’s certainly going to be an interesting 2 years. And the Progressives have a good opportunity.
If Obama wants to save the middle class, the Democratic Party, and America, he should announce he will not seek nor accept his party’s nomination in 2012. Then, spend the rest of this lame-duck session of congress signing into law progressive legislation passed with a voice vote in the Senate and Palosi’s 218 Democrats in the House.
Yes, we can (legally).
Let the next congress spend their time repealing them.
America will not re-elect Obama in 2012. The right will destroy Obama and every other Democrat first. This is more than politics.
Orszag can f off.
Of course he won’t he has a bunch of million, so he wants more.
The message was clear:
- pols are full of lies and they could care less about America or the American people – at least if it remotely gets in the way of the next million or billion dollars
Obama’s finished? Stick a fork in him? That’s the spirit I like to see!
On the Obama side, he has about 14 days before he is declared a wimp (to use the kind phrase), else he is going to be a lame duck turkey come Thanksgiving.
Orsag is an asshole. He also wants to extend the tax cuts for two years so they fall right in the middle of the next election cycle.
The democratic party must get back to/hold on to their roots. They have been (I thought) the party that sought to help people and for social justice. The “change we can believe in” is becoming bull shit. Stand up fo things that matter like immigration reform, no extension of tax cuts, extended unemployment and don’t cut SS, not one freaking cent.
I have always felt Obama had Republican leanings. He just confirms it every day. I fell out of my chair during the campaign when he paid tribute to Ronnie Reagan. No Democrat who lived through Carter’s defeat and Clinton’s win would ever point to Reagan’s presidency as anything more than a waste of time. Only in the delusions of the right wing did Reagan accomplish anything of value. As Roslyn Carter stated “He made us comfortable with our prejudices. ” There was not one redeeming scintilla about RR and for Obama to have even uttered a slight compliment, even if he was being insincere, that was an obscenity. And here he is, two years after the election, tons of proof that “bipartsanship” does not work, will not work, has not worked and has only lead to the Country being worse off ( ie in too small a stimulus bill.)he keeps inviting the Repubs in. Extending the Bush tax cuts??? Is he kidding. He is a committed Republican who believes the system is sound and he believes he just needs to whittle around the edges to make some small adjustments. Try to convince him our house is on fire and he will respond “well let’s wait and see what happens.”
I for one plan to storm my local Dem Comm., to make sure the wrong lessons are not learned. Here in Central Florida, where Grayson got defeated trying to repeat the impossible, there will be more than a few Dems who will look to demonize the left. That stuff needs to be stopped. It is bad enough having to fight delusional teabaggers and Repubs but when the crazies are in your own tent, that’s well just crazy.
So you honestly think that administration was having that public fight, all the while really pulling for the tax cuts for the rich. Listen, i’m an Obama critic, but this “secret agenda” stuff honestly makes us sound like redstaters and the right, that’s seriously how they think. It makes us also conveniently assume the administration is competent when they’re carrying out sinister plots, but are bungling bafoons on everything else.
And that would be good advice from the Doctor’s point of view if the patient had an infinite number of lungs to destroy. What we have lost as a nation is perspective. All sustainability has been taken down in favor of instant gratification. “Who cares if we can’t make money next year when we can increase our profitability next quarter by x amount by sacrificing the future? Let next year take care of itself”.
I have a really bad feeling about this.
Orszag may not work in the administration any more, but his voice is clearly one that the President respects. Indeed, much of Obama’s own messaging on the issue reflects what Orszag is saying here.
They are from the same society. What is it the Hammilton Project?
They are the SAME. This is what Obama beleives. Its not Rahm, its not Zaggy, its AllBark Obama.
He said no “steep hike”. I don’t want ANY hike. Clear?
Ding. I know people who vote Republican, who support none of the Republican agenda. They do it because Republicans will stand up, say what they believe, and try to implement it, without fear or equivocation. They vote for them because they respect their principled efforts, even though they disagree with the goals. Democrats, on the other hand, are seen as unprincipled, spineless opportunists worthy of no respect: Why should anyone else trust or believe them, if they are willing to sell out their own base? No one on either side of a conflict respects a traitor…this is why even when Republicans fail, it is seen as a principled failure, versus Democrats, who, when they fail, are rightly seen as wormy, treacherous sellouts. Who wants to vote for that?
I endorse all this.
Not to mention Obama’s “new” willingness to compromise on Bush’s tax cuts.
I truly believe extending the tax cuts while gutting SS is finally going to be the tipping point.
Everybody here who knows me knows that I am not a conspiracy theorist nor do I own a tinfoil hat. When I see convincing evidence that Obama cares about middle class Americans and jobs more than he cares about making life better for the rich, I’ll give your scenario a bit more credibility. Until then, I just don’t see the evidence.
Harness that feeling. Find others who feel the same way. And organize them. The resistance is growing!
I smelled that same wiggle room of Obama’s that you did.
Not good.
“Steep hike” is a waffle we are all going to feel.
Don’t watch what he DOES, Margaret — listen to Obama’s pretty WORDS.
They are that – -the bungling bafons part – - . Beyond that it is hard to know WTF they are for or against. Seems they swing whichever way the wind blows and that’s the problem. Sometime, if he cares at all, he will have to take a stand. SS may be his last chance.
Ah, getting fired up are we? But you are right about one thing: Obama is a rightwing loon who should either commit to not run for re-election or be primaried out of town. As for Grayson, he did some douchebag things and for that, he should have been sent packing, not to mention the fact he voted for that monstrosity of a health care bill………….
His ‘steep’ is the other fellow’s ‘crippled retirement.’
Well played Voter suppression, Rahmbo and Tim Kaine-heckuva campaign, ha ha ha. Youth vote down to 20%, and a million less than 2006. Of course, they did not want a total rout. K-Street requires bipartisan gridlock. But the bad policies also caused voter suppression which nearly caused a total rout. Message is K-Street Rules. Obama does appear to be a weak puppet.
My sense is that things are happening that will break down the Democratic/Republican two-party domination of the political system that are far outside of our control. Bloomberg has been carefully laying the tracks for a third party run, and after Tuesday’s election results, it looks like all systems are go for that.
The banks are teetering on the edge of having their insolvency exposed, however, and I don’t see how a choice between Obama/Bloomberg/Mitt Romney offers anyone an opportunity to stand up to the banks. I’m also hearing about some Unity 08 resurgence. So in a race that already gets split three ways, the dynamics could exist to fracture it into a four- or five-way race.
I don’t think a primary challenge to Obama is realistic, it just won’t happen. And even if it did, I can’t see right how it would be successful. He dominates the party machinery, and anyone who would challenge him would be hobbled by a damaged and embattled brand in the wake of a nasty intraparty fight. So what would they have even if they won?
So my guess is if there is a 2012 shakeup it a) will probably happen outside the Democratic party b) is not foreseeable now, and c) is way, way outside our ability to director or control. And I never like to put a foot down until a path forward becomes both clear and desirable. So until then, at least for myself, I’ll just be watching and listening and trying to sift through the available information. And, of course, writing it here.
My first priority has to be finding a job since it’s clear that no help is coming my way from the people I pay. After that, I’ll do all of the organizing I can.
Oh yeah. That will do it.
Events outrace this type of “message” analysis.
The civilization we have built upon the surface of this planet is buckling under the weight of sheer human numbers.
Like Obama claimed he wanted a public option in September after he traded it away in July?
I wonder what the Obama and the rest of the Dems think their winning message is going to be in 2012? They are going to get the ball rolling by cutting SS? Not that Odumba has any desire to do it in the first place, but even if he did, how are they going to stimulate the economy in order to generate some job growth? Or do they just plan on turtling for 24 months, and see if “We’re-Not-As-Crazy 2.0″ works any better at not getting these slapdicks their asses handed to them? Also.
I’m not kidding when I say that the 2012 election could be the Katrina to the 2010 light drizzle. THE DERP HAS REACHED CRITICAL LEVELS!
The messaging is not – and never is – about reaching out to what voters want. It’s about doing the bidding of their corporate masters, and then pushing that messaging out as what voters want. It’s Orwellian in a way. It’s essentially saying “unemployed workers want us to pursue more free trade pacts to make America competetive again”, even though they know free trade is a race to the bottom that has destroyed more jobs in the US than it has created. They then tag “the loony left” as against that position and thus against the interests of the working class, so as to pit us as the bad guys holding everything back. The end result? Politicians and corporations get what they want, and everyone else is screwed.
Wrong technically and they know it (will use it for what they want to do), or wrong technically and they are clueless (most of this 2 year mess is due to Obama being a political fool)?
It’s a little difficult to imagine they really think they can work with R’s – yet that is what they are saying.
The R’s started day 1 WED:
- plan with a number of points to address
- a big issue that their base wants (may not deliver, but they will work oon death by 1000 paper cuts)
- a political plan – setup POTUS and Senate as the issue & on DAY 1 – say we need the POTUS and Senate!
- These things are not rocket science, it does not take much
The Dem’s plan for the last two years:
- Obama literally splitting the baby, and giving almost all the power to congress
- lie
- hope your base catches amnesia
- Keep claiming they want to work with R’s
- give up lots for nothing, in contrast at least Bush lead – he gave up nothing and got lots with little (tax cuts for millionares with 51 votes – and now Obama is going to extend them and pay for it on the backs of poor and middle class retirement).
There are any number of documented instances where Obama and Orszag’s thinking on Social Security line up, so it is safe to say outside of this OpEd that Obama agrees with Orszag in his analysis of the Social Security situation. Or at least he did in the past, when they were presenting the Diamond Orszag plan in the White House as a blueprint for what they wanted to do going forward in February of 2009.
There is no reference in either Orszag’s OpEd or my post to extending Bush tax cuts, so whatever happened between them on that issue doesn’t apply here.
and a clear message before and after the election, in quotes:
“NO COMPROMISE”
Margaret, very late to this morning’s “Swim” thread, but I read it later and wish you success in your move (if you do).
I agree.
However, a primary challenger will only move Obama to the left a little till he gets the nomination, and even then it’ll all be empty promises and flowery rhetoric.
We either need to start a write-in campaign that makes a statement or get behind a third-party candidate who can get a significant portion of the progressive vote that would have gone to Obama. I’m sure there are plenty of progressives who’re not looking forward to having to vote for Obama again in 2012.
I’d take it one step further and say that obama’s “mis-messaging” is entirely purposeful. They do enough polling to know what the people want, but instead they tailored a message that weakens their appeal to voters. How can they be so stupid? They aren’t. IMO, they did that becoz obama never wanted to win the mid-terms, in fact, he preferred to lose seats to the republicans becoz that makes his corporate sellouts more excusable … essentially the old clintonian excuse that the republicans made him do it … and it makes the direction of the kabuki theatre whose final scene is always corporate servile legislation much more simpler. Why would he want a democratic dominated congress when the overriding effect of almost every damn bill that he tailored was to further entrench the country’s corrupt power order? If all you care about is acting as the head pr man for the establishment, why the hell would you want a democratic-dominated congress when all it does put accountability on you for your broken campaign promises and complications for your kabuki?
obama is a narcissio-path, he is willing to sell out 99% of the nation as long as he gets to strut and preen on the biggest stage. He loves doing the campaigning … hearing the cheering masses … and he will do whatever is necessary to keep the people happy that he thinks provided him with that stage: his corporate and wealthy individual donors. And then after his big mid-term speeches that supposedly were to benefit the party … and his strutting and preening … he’d more or less do interviews backstage with the media communicating his disdain for the backbone of the democratic party. How does that reconcile with a person that is truly interested in the democratic party’s best interests? It doesn’t. Bashing the bass that was already demoralized served two purposes: to defend his precious ego and to further demoralize the base … as if his actions as president hadn’t done enough.
He is the representative for goldman sachs, bp, aipac, and aetna and the legislation his minions tailored with congress and his actions prove that. He never wanted to win this mid-term election … prior to the election, he could barely conceal his glee at the prospects of working with a republican-led congress. And it’s not that he loves the republicans … they’re just proxies for the big business interests that he is so anxious to serve … it’s that he loves himself way too much and he needs that big stage for his ego, which runs his life and demands it.
Z
Sounds wise. But if there are three or more parties it could go to the house and that means the repug will get elected. I am watching too, and I am more favorable to Bloomberg these days since I see nothing on the left at all at the moment.
Now, THIS, i agree with. There’s incoherence on their positions and their basic agenda, and where Obama goes on SS will be a big “Decision Point”, as Bush says.
Well said!!
Left means “the people”. Zaggy strongly opposes the left. Seems like Obama is the same, or clueless – guess it does not matter which.
Thanks. Barring a miracle, I’ll be moving. If I have to give up this apartment, all other things being equal, I’d rather be in Austin. I know more people there and there is far more tolerance there.
Jane’s right. There will be no challenge to Obama. It’s one of those things that simply isn’t done and the elected Dems don’t have enough courage to do it. The rest is up to us.
I applaud your wisdom and patience. But my call for a challenge to Obama is only being made within the cozy confines of the progressive blogosphere. There is so much anti-establishment fervor in here right now – don’t we need to harness it in some way?
Of course a primary challenge wouldn’t succeed – but might it galvanize a growing progressive movement, and possibly draw in some other groups that aren’t as whacko as the Tea Party and might be good allies?
I fear that “sticking to the issues” is going to doom us to irrelevancy. But then again, as you said, 2012 is wide open. ANything can happen.
Agreed that a primary is not realistic under current conditions, but after the new House chops 10-15 more points off of his numbers, that could change. The party would be hurt, but the eventual nominee will also have the advantage of running against a weird Teahadist…Harry Reid as a metaphor for the entire Democratic effort in ’12.
Anyone see Rachel last night highlighting all of the “no compromise” comments from the Republicans, followed by “We can compromise” from Obama, Reid, et al. Don’t they have EARS??? Are we in for two more years of craven caviling from Obama and the Dems?
How would a Republican in office be all that different from Obama in office for a second term.
Seriously, now that progressives have not been blamed for causing the losses in 2010, we have nothing to lose by making a loud statement in 2012.
Yes!
and I also think there is something to be said for Daou’s opinion, here:
http://peterdaou.com/2010/11/democrats-stood-for-nothing-and-fell-for-anything/
“If you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything.”
and clearly, this administration and democrats in general (if they want to keep liberals on their side) need to be the fierce advocates of the people, the people of the United States!
Yep, me too.
You teabaggers. (SNARK!) What’s wrong with you people? Don’t you care for Obama first and principles last if ever? I know I do. Everything that happens, I jumps up and asks myself, “Oh dear, how will this affect Obama, the White House, will it damage my darling’s beauteous presidency?” All during the oil spill, I worried late into the night, “How is Obama doing? How will this affect him?” It saddens me to see this blog, so out-of-step with what I’m hearing, which is that Obama listens TOO MUCH to progressives and will now be moving to the right (finally!) for the sake of his presidency. Can’t you support him? What else matters? You selfish bastids.
The have ears, it’s something in the cognitive processing centers of the brain that isn’t working…
Well said.
The Times billboarded the deep thoughts of Evan Bayh and Orszag immediately following the election.
Yeah, I gather Austin is preferable. I’ve only been to TX a couple of times, years ago, to conferences, and that was Dallas.
As others said this morning, you’d be welcome at my place, except I live in Redstate Indiana, jobs are pretty scarce here, and it’s pretty conservative and intolerant and a mix of Catholic and religious fundies, so probably wouldn’t be a good move!
Shorter Orzag: Don’t be a Burden. Eat less. Pay more. Die sooner. Vote Dem!
Not that I have a crystal ball, but I think Sarah Palin will try to cleave the Tea Party from the Republicans and use it to make a run.
You haven’t been paying much attention these last two years, have you?
*** <- there's some troll food for ya.
This is my thought too and the sooner we get started, the better. This isn’t something we can slap together with tape and high hopes at the last minute.
y’all should head over to HuffPo and see that WH Considering Compromise on Tax Cuts thread – even the reliable apologists all sound like the lady who said she was tired of having to apologize for him all the time
maybe the Obamanati show up later in the day, afer their done washing Tim Kaine’s car, but currently that thread is over 2700 comments and it is all about Sell Out !, Spine ! and Primary Challenge !
very similar tone in the QE II thread last night
I take your point but Obama is or will become damaged if he caves on issues like SS and taxes. I would rather have someone who will do what he says or at least try. Bloomberg is not a hard right repug.
Indiepro, I really liked that column — it was spot on and I’ve quoted from it to several people. I don’t know much about Peter Daou but he’s bookmarked and I like his stuff.
obama is already conceding his openness to tax cuts for the wealthy and looking forward to serve his big business pals with free trade treaties and group smooch over in India:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/04/gibbs-obama-will-listen-t_n_778864.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/04/white-house-to-business-c_n_778780.html
Apparently, he is beginning to course correct from his socialist ways …
Z
Letters to the editor, speaking up in public forums, visit mass media news sites and post comments…no Gooper nonsense should go unanswered.
I want to see John Boner’s expense accounts. I want to know every penny he spends on changing the speakers office and I want to see who Mitch McConnell is taking money from
I think we should spread rumors about what the T party people are saying about the republicans and start lots of fights.
I want to know what the alleged reasonable republicans think about all this
Lincoln Chaffee better have a lot to say and where are all those Obama republicans like Susan Eisenhauer. I want these people to stand up and take responsibility for this mess
He may not be one on social issues but he damn sure is one on economic issues.
That’s funny…haven’t seen you before, so welcome!
That’s a post.
;)
I used to like HP but the number of people there make it very difficult to talk about anything or follow a line of reasoning. But if they are lining up agin O on taxes, that could be good. Maybe he will get the message.
Obama can’t “cave” on SS cuts, he is the one pushing it.
where is the blueprint?
Fixed it for ya, with the meme I see on several progressive blogs lately.
Bloomberg is not a hard right repug.
Mayor Mike endorsed and campaigned for Meg Whitman, the worst candidate ever
He can go suck rocks before I would consider him for anything He is annoyinbg wealthy git who sometimes does the right thing just not often enough
Obama has been pretty consistent on Social Security, both in the campaign and while in office. In several town halls THIS year, including the MTV Town Hall, he said it needs “minor adjustments” and pointed to the raising of the income level for the payroll tax as the best solution. He has NEVER said anything else on benefit cuts or raising the retirement age, except that he isn’t for them, which he said most recently last week when he met with progressive bloggers. Orszag is also a notorious budget hawk, much more than Obama is, and the main issue where they shared views was on HCR and using that as a bending the cost curve.
Now Jane, where I share your apprehension, and maybe what you’re talking about, are the times he’s said his typical Obama “open to other ideas” platitude. But all that means is that we shouldn’t take his word for it, which is where i stand, as opposed to assuming the opposite, which is he wants to cut SS.
You don’t see the wiggle room in the bolded word? Had he said “it doesn’t strike me that a hike in the retirement age is in fact the best way to fix Social Security”, I’d still be concerned because the guy is a certified liar. But it would give the Obamabots a leg to stand on until the guy signs away 20% of the FICA contributions we’ve all been accumulating since we started working.
If there’s a similar infight in the republican party, we can have as big an infight as we need to. Palin is going to be a huge problem for them. Teabaggery vs Rovery is going to divide them more and more. Tearing both parties assunder would be wonderful.
Great post. In MA, Barney Frank faced an awful little Republican challenger who wouldn’t even debate him, and Barney’s messaging was all about protecting entitlements. It’s an obvious policy winner. It’s shaming that a Democrat in the WH has a secret committee working to cut the safety net. When are these idiots going to stop pissing on the average American already? And, Obama sounds like an utter fool when he tells people how he saved the economy. until people feel it in their wallet they are not going to find that rhetoric credible.
I know, it’s a lesser of two evils at the moment.
did you forget Jane’s posts about the Wall St candidate managed by his girlfriend ? I don’t recall Hizzoner making any effort to distance himself from that trainwreck
I was gonna say, “Don’t you mean Firebaggers?” I call it intellectual honesty. This is why I’ve never been affiliated with a political party. I’m not interested in a false dichotomy and an “us vs them”. What pointless bullshit all of that is.
Look at the words “steep increase” – so a small increase in retirement age is a-okay with The Arrogant One.
I agree that Bloomberg would be better than Obama or anyone the wingnuts will support. My point is that, in the case of the 2012 presidential election, its time to put the Uygur Doctrine into effect.
I suppose I’m thinking more about the larger implications for the Democratic Party (i.e. freeing it from the New Dem/Blue Dog/DLC “centrist” corporatist garbage) than about who will or who should win in 2012.
I call it “teabaggery vs douchebaggery” but yours works as well.
Then why did he set up the Cat Food commission and stack it with people who histrionically wanted to cut benefits?
Given the state of the economy, he would actually be worse than Obama on economics.
And guess who gets to define “steep” vs anything else…?
Tweaks, that’s all. When everyone’s flipping burgers at 67 it’s a minor tweak in retirement planning.
Until you know the lay of the land, your chances of being run over by a fast moving train are much greater than your chances of being able to direct it.
Too many moving parts right now. I’m just temperamentally someone who wants to see how things start to shake out before making a move, which is always wise when you’re one of the least powerful players in the mix.
Does the White House singlehandedly shift the election results merely by its message or lack thereof? That seems to be the conclusion drawn here. Perhaps, more realistically you could allow that they didn’t help the cause which the don’t seem to care about very much.
I’m not a regular over there – but I do use it as a means to gage mood among the faithful –
frankly, it gives me a little ray of hope – if they’re that pissed about compromising on Bush Tax Cuts, their hair should be on fire with SS
…but I’m Melanie Hamilton when it comes to seeing the best in my fellow Party members :D
These days, what’s the difference between a Democrat and a Republican? Their performances for the masses are fun and get good ratings for cable news (especially Faux News), but otherwise…
There is a reason that Orszag left the OMB, and it was not to spend more time with his family. I would not automatically assume that Orszag continues to speak for the administration. The timing is suspicious and one might ask what Orszag’s relationship with Pete Peterson is.
Obama has actually be pretty noncommittal about what he would do about Social Security, but the “tweak” he offered up regarding the section of legislation requiring issuing IRS 1099s for all expenditures over $600 seems to indicate that “tweaks” means “tweaks”. What actually happens is in the hands of the lame duck Congress. Having 47 Blue Dogs no longer having to posture for their districts will be an interesting exercise. The other issue is whether the Senate will immediately seat the replacements for the appointments to vacant seats. Will Kirk replace Burris, Coons replace Kaufman, for example. And will Joe Manchin be seated.
Looked it up. Fabulous!
One year to 68 is steep.
Yep, there are more rabid, (vapid?), defenders of Obama at HuffPo than at Kos. If they are denouncing him over there, he’s really up the proverbial creek. NOT that I think that will change anything. Heck for all I know he is living in an inexcusably impenetrable bubble.
Preaching to the choir
See my 135
Nicely stated. You have the temperament of a leader! I agree about FDL not making a move too quickly, though that doesn’t mean that the ideas should not be tossed out there now for your consideration :)
The message of the election, imho, should be:
People will vote for you if they respect you, even if they disagree with you;
People will not vote for you if they don’t respect you, even if they agree with you.
See, the Kossacks are people too, just the same as us. Well, perhaps, not as funny.
I hear that there’s 80 progressives left in the house, maybe they can draft something up? I hate to travel without one.
Absolutely!
The key is earning respect. This is done through stating clear principles and not compromising on them-otherwise, they’re not principles! Positions can be compromised, but not principles.
Or sometimes, people will vote for you because the alternative is worse.
Yep. And the only way an increase in the retirement doesn’t mean hardship for lots of people is to toughen and tighten the age discrimination laws applying to employment. When 50-year-olds are suffering age discrimination, it is asking folks to live without income for 20 years to raise the retirement age to 70.
Everyone who is likely to fall into this situation needs to tell their children that if that happens they will see Mom and/or Dad visiting them for some very long stays. And the ones without family will be out on the street. These are the implications that the elites are not talking about. And ordinary people aren’t aware of.
The insurance and 401(k) industries have been promoting the idea that Social Security can’t be relied upon because its going away. They’ve sold that for 30 years at every employee 401(k) presentation. The truth is that the 401(k) can’t be relied upon nor can corporate pensions (ask GM retirees about that one). The problem is that the under 50s take that as an article of faith and want to see the payroll tax ended and Social Security scrapped; they just are not thinking ahead.
The major problem with representative democracy (especially when the government is into lots of things) is that there is no way to measure what the people want. It is absurd to say the election result means anything other than a repudiation of Obama. Many considerations go into deciding who to vote for, most having nothing to do with issues. The ambiguity is killing us. We need techniques that permit the people to weigh in on issues rather than candidates.
I don’t know the implications of seating those people or others. But we are now post election. It is time for O to start saying clearly what he means, out loud and with a full voice. I defended him before this since I thought maybe he had some game plan. Now that’s bull shit. I don’t want to see any cuts in SS and if he feels the same say so. This equivocal bull shit makes me think he is going to “negotiate” it away so he can save the 1099s in the health care legislation or some other piece of nonsense. I guess you would say, I have lost my trust in him, at least a little.
Only for a while, as positions become indistinguishable…”We suck less” is clearly not a message that causes voters to rally ’round the banner.
I agree with all of that. I worked with a young man who always said he didn’t want anything taken out of his pay for SS or pensions or health care. Said give me the money and I will take care of myself. Yeah, right until you can’t.
SS should be increased and not decreased and no one talks about it. I saw it here once on FDL. It should be an issue for liberals given the devastation there is out there.
I heard today that America ranks 47th in the world in Education and after looking at the voting patters yesterday, I think that number may be a little high….
But lets face it,,,
Obama is his own worst enemy and Reid is totally going to get screwed by McConnell….
Wha? It stills mean tremendous hardship for millions of Americans. You try standing on your feet all day as a cashier or a waitress at 70, or workinga factory line for heavens sake. Not to mention, working Americans still have pretty low life expectancies.
at least they will have disability to work with
What FDL does is one thing; what each of us does is another.
Jane, you have the best vision for moving FDL forward. No doubt. I, on the other hand, will support impeachment of this asshole — yes, asshole, massaccio! — if he signs ANYTHING that reduces benefits in SS.
NO COMPROMISES ON SS that lower benefits. NONE!
There are just not enough of us out there to help change the world. I am afraid it is getting worse, not better. How in heavens name could all those people vote for the republicans Tuesday? do they really think they will “help” them in any meaningful way? Oh yeah, sounds good to say like Rand Paul did: “we’re coming to take our government back.” Feels good for a moment or two and then the cold seeps in.
The point is that he is not going to save the 1099s in the healthcare legislation. That is an example of something he is willing to give up as a tweak.
The Republicans are going to argue that raising the retirement age to 70 for folks who are currently under 50 does not amount to a cut. The press will broadcast this far and wide.
Whatever happens, nothing that Obama says will affect the legislative process. What he does in private negotiations with the leadership is what will matter. And he does not show his hand about that. Democrats say that in those sessions he is forceful and Republicans say that he is arrogant, saying one thing publicly and demanding to have it his way. We really won’t know until they write their memoirs. In public all of them are posturing.
And Obama’s posture is always on everything that he will listen to ideas for accomplish a particular goal, not that he will adopt them but he will listen. And legislatively he gets what he can wring out of the Democratic caucus and the Congressional process, and not a whole lot more.
Trust but verify is still a good idea.
You think the only thing Obama wants to do is raise the cap?
That delusion could only exist if you cooperate with his consistently deceptive practice of saying one thing and dog-whistling another until he finally shows his hand, while he tries to pretend that he supports something he’s been sabotaging all along (see: public option).
The people who enabled that — “the President said he supports the public option, and I take him at his word” — enabled the shitty health care bill that just destroyed the Democrats.
February 12: White House presenting Orszag’s plan as a model for what they want to do with Social Security
March 5 2009: David Brooks of the NYT reports that “four senior members of the administration” called him to say that Obama “is extremely committed to entitlement reform and is plotting politically feasible ways to reduce Social Security.”
May 10: Obama Packs Debt Commission With Social Security Privatization & Benefit Cut Supporters
Here are four of Obama’s six appointments to the Catfood Commission:
* Chairman Erskine Bowles, described by Business Week as “corporate America’s friend in the White House.” Bowles had negotiated the deal between Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton to create “private social security accounts” where “taxpayers get some choice as to how to invest their contributions.” The deal fell through when the Monica Lewinsky episode jumped into the headlines.
* As Bowles’ Republican Co-Chair, the President appointed loose cannon Alan Simpson, the former rich kid GOP Senator from Wyoming once famously said that those who were complaining that Social Security needed protection were “people who live in gated communities and drive their Lexus to the Perkins restaurant to get the AARP discount.”
* Alice Rivlin was appointed by Obama to be chief wonk of the Catfood Commission, a Brookings Institute fellow who had been funded by Pete Peterson and a strong supporter of raising the retirement age to 70 — resulting in a 20% benefit cut to Social Security recipients.
* David M. Cote, the Republican CEO of defense contractor Honeywell
Sorry, you can tee up that football of “the President has only said he wants to raise the cap,” but his actions are once again the complete antithesis of that. Nobody’s going to kick it for you.
He’s not saying to raise SS to age 70.
This is pure unadulterated bullshit. How many time do we have to get fucked before we drop bullshit like this?
Increasing Social Security payments dramatically would be an excellent way to stimulate the economy. The PAYGO could be lifting the exclusion on the payroll tax and lowering the payroll tax rate to say 7%.
The problem here is not Obama as much as it is scared rabbit Democrats in Congress. And a bunch of those are now lame ducks until January and then they are out. No one knows how they will vote in those circumstances.
As you suggested, if the Democrats came out strongly opposing any notion of cutting SS benefits, and made clear the position of the Republicans regarding SS, they would have won the past election by winning the Senior vote by a large margin. This is just sad. I have been hearing Democrats talk lately about “entitlement reform”. This scares me, as it reminds me of “welfare reform” under Clinton. Do they not care about elections? I don’t understand…
you know, all that sounds pretty convincing – - until last Tuesday and what Jane said in 156. So I guess I have him on a real short leash, real short.
One thing: we talk a lot together, but perhaps we should be strolling though other sites with our straight forward facts and figures more.
#2 I am going to send postcards to my elected state officials (I live in Ohio so it won’t be appreciative compliments come January) to inform them that they represent all the citizens, including my 47%, not their political party and I will be watching. In the first week of the term in office wouldn’t it be grand if they get an onslaught of communications from the people who did not vote for them!
I’ll do postcards not emails: I want a person to touch them. I want to do this regularly. (I will budget for it)
It is a bullshit line. But it positions him as being reasonable and not scary to a lot of folks. Which is why I say that what happens will be behind the scenes.
Speaking for me only, if FDL becomes a place that supports “compromise” with an enemy that seeks our destruction, I’m gone. There may be many who would savor that, but just sayin’.
I can think of NO compromise that the Rs are willing to make that doesn’t set back progressive goals. If you think otherwise, please enlighten me.
Jane, slightly OT, but I’m hoping you’ll be reading the comments and see this:
Could someone at FDL do a diary about just HOW the latest Fed pumping money into the “system” by buying debt is supposed to help with jobs, foreclosures, etc — the things that hurt REAL people?
I understand the “theory” that such “intervention” brings down interest rates and IN THEORY helps businesses, but what we’ve seen for the last two years is that businesses DON’T take advantage of this new “cheap money.” They don’t hire, they don’t expand — they just hang on to the dollars, or perhaps go invest them at the Wall Street casino, since the stock market does seem to go up in response to this shit.
It seems blatantly transparent to me that this latest “Fed move” is both
ineffective in dealing with the nation’s problems AND is just more honey to the too-fat-they-re-gonna-explode rich. How can this be being sold as a “solution”?
Anyone?
That’s the verify part.
Brilliant analysis on the really bad White House messaging leading up this election, Jane.
As to everyone else convinced that Obama will sign off on Social Security cuts: we’ll see. That’d be immensely foolish and destructive to the Democratic Party. Plus, very long term cuts to Social Security payouts 10-20 years down the line will do absolutely nothing to shore up the current deficit.
But here’s what matters on that: the Obama spell over the left has now been broken. Nothing destroys the illusion of eleventh dimensional chess quite like abject failure. I don’t think he’s a strong enough leader at this point to get the lemmings to follow him on any hare-brained schemes to cut major entitlement programs.
Now, tax reform and “free” trade, maybe. I really want to see how the freshman Tea Party class reacts to “free” trade deals in the House. Although in fairness, we might be able to cut a decent deal with a modern, industrialized country like South Korea in a way we never could with CAFTA and other banana republics.
Do you really fear that happening at FDL?
Anyone who would validate discussions that ultimately are about ruining Social Security is an asshole.
Look at my smile. Hear my lofty rhetoric. Remember that I’m on your side as I reduce SS benefits. Don’t forget to vote for me in Nov!
In two months they will be trying to get lobbyist jobs, I wonder how they will vote…
The New York Times the so call liberal news paper helped Bush start the war in IRAQ.
The idiots at the New York Times ignored the Patriot Act, the Patriot Act was written overnight? WOW
the under wear bomber led to marketing of Body scanners, where was the New York Times?
enough of trying to act like the NY TIMES represent liberals and their writers represent liberals
maybe the NEW YORK TIMES better look at the POLL, David Plouffe is looking at 47% of dems don’t like OBAMA, once this number get above 70% game over for Obama the trojan horse. (cutting SS will push it there)
Peter Orzag, has not seen the commercial where OBAMA stands in front of americans, and talks about cutting SOCIAL SECURITY.
(the first Black president is going to cut social security, and the people are going to love him? laughing!!!) Obama will lose black votes by the ton, and well white america is already gone. Clarence THomas will be OBAMA best friend, see OBAMA wants to be MLK, cutting SS will ruin this idea.
this will make it very easy to primary him
Obama knows this, David Plouffe knows this the commercial will be made within seconds
the sharks will jump in the water ASAP, to destroy the trojan horse name OBAMA.
this is not 1994!
The message was that through a campaign of constant fear, lies, and innuendos, many Americans can be manipulated.
Watch the bouncing ball…
Candidate Obama on MTP, 11-11-07 “Meet the Candidates” series:
Q: You said earlier this year that everything should be on the table for Social Security, including looking at raising retirement age, indexing benefits, and then suddenly you said, “I’m taking them off the table.”
A: That’s not what I said. I said I will convene a meeting as president where we discuss all of the options that are available. I believe that cutting benefits is not the right answer; and that raising the retirement age is not the best option, particularly when we’ve got people who are still in manufacturing.
Q: But in May you said they would be on the table.
A: Well, I am going to be listening to any ideas that are presented, but I think that the best way to approach this is to adjust the cap on the payroll tax so that people like myself are paying a little bit more and the people who are in need are protected. That is the option that I will be pushing forward.
Q: But the other options would be on the table?
A: Well, I will listen to all arguments and the best options.
Yeah, closer to 1984.
I would hope not. But there is an unrealistic quality to much of this discussion. We KNOW what he is going to do. He’s going to CAVE. On EVERY issue. We know that the Rs will compromise NOTHING of value to us.
We have ENOUGH information on this guy. He IS going to sell us out. A wait-and-see attitude is suicide. We need to be drawing lines in the sand.
That seems to be the consensus. I think the wait and see has more to do with possible 3rd party opportunities, primary challenge to Obama, etc. Not any doubt about what a double-dealing skunk Obama is.
I agree with you
a major problem the corporate republicans and the corporate dems are going to have is how do you control the TEA PARTY nut cases
the TEA PARTY wants to start their own Caucus
Rand Paul is not the typical conservative republican, he thinks he has been chosen to kill the FED, kill the USA govt, and stop the off shore banking monopoly from taking over the USA.
I doubt if Rand Paul and his followers like free trade deals
the illusion is that MITCH and ORANGE man can control the tea party
the intelligent left needs to use the ignorance of the tea party to help kill the GOP, and destroy neo-cons like OBAMA
You know, this is why blue collar America hates ivory tower academics. Evidently, Ivy League Obama thinks America should rid itself of manufacturing jobs and then poof! He can raise the retirement age! Isn’t that just the most cleverest eleventy-dimensionalist chess ever?!?! Golly, what a guy…
Can we please have a Presidential candidate (and I mean in 2012) that respects and admires blue collar workers, our former manufacturing prowess, and displays a desire to restore it and the middle class?
Just when I think I can’t get more ticked off with the Pinhead-in-Chief, he manages to up the ante again. Heckuva job Pinhead.
You are correct. It puts more money on banks’ balance sheets, possibly hides insolvency, and depresses the interest rate for savers.
Banks already have $1 trillion or so parked in T-Bills. Most likely they will buy up more government debt at 2%-3%. Which helps reduce the interest on the national debt as Treasury can restructure higher interest-rate debt into these low interest rates and lock them in for the term of the T-Bill.
But investing in T-bills doesn’t create consumer demand, and that is what is needed to bring that money out of T-bills and into the investments in creating jobs.
But monetary policy is the primary tool that a President can use without Congressional action. And then only if the Fed agrees with the President. And since the government structure of the Fed is heavily weighted to bankers, …
You don’t think there’s a chance he uses the Republicans as a foil?
If the Chicago machine pol had any sense at all, he’d let Boehner send him “a spending cut bill every week” and veto all of them, returning them to the house with a simple veto message declaring the cuts bad for the middle class.
I have a sense Republicans won’t really be able to get anything done except on tax reform, which is where Obama will probably try to strike a deal to lower the short term deficit. The long term deficit issues are really not critical right now and way too dangerous for anyone to touch.
Not all of them are going to want to move to DC. Some have more profitable businesses at home.
Well, that is consistent. And avoids making commitments one way or the other.
Way to DOCUMENT the evidence JANE HAMSHER! There could be polling data from God that proves that 100% of Americans and 110% of Voting Americans dont want SS messed with, want taxes on the rich increased, and think the govt should “do more not less” for people, and it wouldnt matter. Bama would just snuzzle up on the shoulder of the congressional republicans a litle bit tighter to get Wal St’s business done for them. Get ready for “Bi-partisan Men in action 2: The reacharound”
Don’t go. Stay and make your argument with passion and honesty. That’s the only way we’ll ever grow as a movement.
Maybe Orszag et. al. should become 99ers and then they might appreciate what the consequences of their policies are.
“That’s not what I said. I said I will convene a meeting as president where we discuss all of the options that are available. I believe that cutting benefits is not the right answer; and that raising the retirement age is not the best option, particularly when we’ve got people who are still in manufacturing”
that last line is important because i guess its supposed to imply that manufacturing work takes a physical toll, etc., but WHAT THE FUCK does he think all the rest of us who arent cosseted, proffesional, washington and wal st dandies do all day-year long??? hes not even trying. his plain-on display arrogance is becoming my most despised obama feature. Its bad enough that hes a two faced political grifter, his constant attitude copping is the icing laced with battery acid.
Orzag, Judd Gregg and Kent Conrad all went to the SAME elite boarding school. Surely, screwing the “lesser people” was not a course there for rich boys born with a silver spoon up their…
what makees you think thats going to happen?
Still, a nice “thank you” consulting job would ease their translation back into thee privet sector.
I do not see any reason to think they would suddenly grow conscience, especially after “the people” voted them out.
I have a question. Did people vote against critters who voted for the health insurance bill because they hated the bill and thought it didn’t do nearly enough or did they vote against them because they thought it gave everything to the insurance companies or did they think we shouldn’t help people who don’t have any insurance?
Err, the private sector
Chris Matthews is such a NEO-CON
He is telling the world if you control the House of Representative, you control the USA, the Senate and the White House don’t matter
Chris is using the MSM tricks, he is ignoring the FACT that 47% of democrats want the guy in white house primaried.
Chris thinks the wins on tuesday, means the DEMS need to cut SS
Chris and the dumb senators Gregg and McClaskill think the Catfood Commission is on par with JESUS!!! what they come up with must be voted on ASAP.
you got to love the MSM!
Chris Matthews and Lanny Davis must hug each other a lot
it is sorta like the New York Times telling us all about the weapons in IRAQ
Yeah? Chris Matthews thinks he is a progressive
masaccio’s fab post from yesterday
We have to create an alternative universe in which the Democrats had created a bill that ended the stranglehold of the insurance companies (strong PO at least), had drug-reimportation as a component and provided much more in the way of immediate benefits. Would people have voted for that? I think so. Many more would have voted who didn’t and many of these anti-Democratic votes would have gone the other way.
But who knows? You can’t poll people on the abstract, only on the piece of shit bill that was crafted and how it was presented to them.
Thanks. People keep say that so many voted because of the health bill but there could be many reasons why that is true. It’s an answer we need to have.
Of course it’s ineffective. The companies that do the hiring are and have been sitting on record amounts of cash. They aren’t not hiring due to no cash to afford, they’re not hiring because there is no demand.
You’re correct.
Oh, Chris Matthews. He makes fun of bloggers who dare say anything about the “serious business” of running the country, yet he can’t even manage the job of news reader without embarrassing himself.
God, how awful was MSNBC’s election night coverage? No timely info on House races, no objective analysis, telling viewers “it’s not so bad” for Democrats because they didn’t lose a full 10 Senate seats, bringing on pols and retired hacks and either berating them or letting them spew talking points uninterrupted, etc.
Yeah, Matthews wants to be like Glenn Beck or something, but he’s not doing it right… he should either go the full frothing at the mouth crazy or crawl back to a slightly more objective journalism.
We have more choices than choosing between primarying Obama backed up by bolting to a Third Party -or- just writing blogs pointing this stuff out.
First I want to state that I don’t see Jane have just been writing blogs; I see her doing much more than that.
What is it that is our other choice and which I see Jane having already done? Movement building and politics as ongoing struggle to impact law making and execution rather than just as electoral spectacle. This kind of work is down in the trenches slogging it out not glorious riding across the plains in a calvary charge. This kind of work is lobbying to get people like Elizabeth Warren running a Wall Street consumer watchdog agency. Or it is supporting, via fund raising and organizing, an insurgent candidate in a blue dog state so the incumbent supports a more progressive plank in major legislation.
We have a silver lining in the Democratic defeat in the House. The Democratic Caucus is now more weighted to the Left. We need to movement build by putting lots and lots of effort into having the Democratic Caucus propose true progressive legislation and oppose the reactionary legislation the majority will propose. We need to then do the slogging it out in the trenches work of showing OVER and OVER that what the House Democrats are trying to do is resonating with the voters. Then we need to mobilize the grass roots, build unions, develop better infrastructure to impact the narrative making business and increase our lobbying power (ie get out of the Veal Pen.)
We make a major mistake if we do what the media is doing right now, focusing on 2012 as if the next Presidential election is the be all and end all of all that matters. We need instead to focus on an ongoing decades long struggle like the Bolsheviks did after the failed revolution of 1905 and the Republican Conservatives did after their landslide lost in 1964.
Yes, and it’s frustrating because the way things stand it’s very easy to spin the “Obama went too far to the left” nonsense.
NBC = GE.
Chris Matthews did accomplished one thing today
Judd Gregg and McClaskill showed us how the CATFOOD COMMISSION CON is going to be played/
everybody in congress is going to act like the CATFOOD COMMISSION is on PAR WITH JESUS! a
they are going to say, that DEMS and REPS on the CATFOOD COMMISSION came to conclusion that SS needs to be cut!
no one is going to say the DEMS on the Catfood Commission are not really DEMS, they are all trojan horses
however, it gets worse, and a matter of seconds after they cut SS every DEMS in the House and Senate is going to have to explain how Erskine Bowles a man who hates SS spoke for the DEMS???
People hate getting CON!
Like the Health CARE or OBAMACARE CON, this will result in DEMS getting slam in 2012!
also OBAMA will officially replace HOOVER as the worse President ever, he probably already has
With cabinet members like Timmy Geithner, Larry Summers, Karen Ignani and Billy Tauzin what do we expect?
UGH! I can’t stand this anymore – ok, some clarification here:
1) PLEASE STOP this ridiculous notion that America “voted against it’s own interest” by repeating the ridiculously false ASSumption that Democrats all bailed and switched parties. HARDLY! The Dems didn’t get shoved off that cliff, they JUMPED and the only thing the “base” did (because of course, we aren’t voters with brains, we’re just pawns that jump when we’re told) was refuse to lay down the safety net at the bottom.
2) The most perfect examples of exactly WHY America is so screwed can be found in at least a dozen of the comments above. As long as we all buy hook, line and sinker in the Two-Party system we are destined to this madness.
**Definition of madness in this case being: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You know, like toggling back and forth between two of the same party. Which in practice, they are.
We can’t even begin to change one damn thing about all that is happening until we are ready to change our preprogrammed political language and our caustic dialogue.
Focus people, and let’s start brainstorming like adults and not angry teens who’ve had too much Red Bull.
That would be a special message to YOU, PSALONGO
~~~Mod Note: Argue facts without personality please~~~
I think there is a solution to straighten out social security.Pay back all the money that’s been taken at let’s say 1% which is very fair and never touch ss for anything other than ss.The system would be healthy for a thousand years and we could give 5% or more raises forever.
Exactly. We shouldn’t talk about “progressive policies”, we should talk about “beneficial policies”, policies that will help repair the damage done by job loss and recession. People who may have a knee-jerk reaction to even the word “progressive” or “liberal” may well respond to the same idea presented as simply good policy.
Well, from reading the message boards here, most of you guys got what you wanted. Perhaps you will even help get Sarah Palin elected in 2012, I don’t know. I hope not.
There’s a big difference between making a logical and coherent argument against certain policies that you disagree with, versus bitching and moaning and name calling for example that President Obama is right of Reagan (that is so ridiculous I can’t even formulate a coherent response, were you even alive during the Reagan years?).
So keep it up, but don’t call yourselves progressives. You are every bit as responsible for the current climate as the people who voted republican.
The attacks against the left are all predictable aren’t they? You think any of these people in the Village are going take any blame for the disaster that befell the party Tues.? The only good news for the left was that half the blue dogs are gone defeated by the real thing. ( a rethug). But the big Blue dog Obama is still in office so no change just more “hippie kicking.” We should primary this guy and his ship of fools before they take the whole country down.
So who is starting the Fiengold in 2012 petition and where do I sign up?
For someone who is a Republican he sure as hell is getting a lot of hatred and bashing from the right. Think about it. Where is your head?
Fine manners, good reading/listening skills, and exquisite attention to detail. Nothing escapes you.
Amen, Margaret…considering that SS retirement age was originally 55, and current age is 65, the first hike of ten more years to collect retirement was 18% of benefits…the second hike of 5 years to 70 from 65 represents 7% of benefits, hardly “steep” as defined by a reasonable corporatist like Obama.
Ain’t math great?
Are you talking about the fed who is going to anounce when they are going to buy the long term bonds so the Hedge Funds and Bond Traders make a sizeable profit on them buying hem first and then selling them to the fed?…
the game is rigged
http://inflation.us/quantitativeeasing.html
For some reason, I never developed a good sense of snark.
Yes…the vast majority of us were around during Reagan, Carter, and Nixon. Some of us were even around during LBJ, JFK, Ike and Truman. Obama gave us Nixon’s health care plan, has expanded Bush’s wars in the Mid-east, and we are reliving Reagan’s trickle down economics and finance policies all over again (remember the S and L crisis? looks an awful lot like the foreclosure crisis and CDS and derivative swaps…except back then some of the crooks actually went to jail), but this time there is no reserve or excess demand capacity to pull us out of the tailspin because we are establishing a new normal of 10% unemployment and 20% underemployment. Even Reagan wouldn’t tolerate those levels, but Obama doesn’t seem to have any problems there, or maybe 2 years in office is just too short a time to do anything about it.
Quit drinking the kool-aide and open your eyes – you will feel better.
I agree. Observations about his governing are one thing, but the bashing comments are stooping to right wing tactics. If anything Obama may be too intellectual. Perhaps some of the commenters here do not understand intellectual.
President Obama looked whipped yesterday. Instead of standing up to those bastards, he offers an olive branch. Does this guy have a spine? He wants “bipartisanship”? What has he learned over the last 2 years? You can’t compromise with a bully. Yesterday, while he talked about”bipartisanship”. McConnell is talking about bringing him down.
If you don’t think the next election is important consider this. Kennedy and Scalia are long in the tooth and there is a good possibility that one or both are going to be replaced. You want a democrat in office when that happens.
I guess the geniuses at the White House forgot how important Tuesday’s election were and I don’t mean congress. These lost a ton of governorships and state legislatures. This year redistricting occurs and that will make it harder for the Democrats to retake the house. Talk about a complete screwup. If Obama doesn’t stand up and fight, he desevers to lose. A WIMP is not what I voted for.
Social Security is not part of the budget, so by definition it cannot be part of the deficit. So what are Orzag and Obama talking about?
In its own separate account, Social Security as a 2.4 trillion dollar trust fund to cover any possible shortfalls in their revenue. There are projected shortfalls, but that $2.4T is projected to cover them for the next 30 years, after which revenues are projected to be 20% short of the current benefit schedule. So What?
When Social Security starts cashing in the the Treasury Bonds in the SS Trust Fund, the taxpayers are going to have to cough up on average $80 billion per year to buy cover buy-back those bonds.
The point is that Social Security holds $2.4T of working-class money in TRUST to cover their retirement. The working class doen’t not include the wealthy. Only a negligible portion was from people in the top rung of our society. But they would be expected to pay their fair share of the cost of reimbursing the working class. They thing that they stole that money from the working class fair and square and that would be criminal to ask them to pay it back. And Orzag and Obama agree.
I thought Obama was going to cry, just like Boehner.
read Krugman on this topic (QE2). he believes (and is most likely right) that this buyback of T-Bills will have very little effect because interest rates are essentially as low as they can go. IIRC its called the zero hedge boundary and though Wall Street will like it (it allows banks and corporations to make profits without lending money or hiring employees) it will do jack and squat for Main Street.
Based on his first two years in office, Jon, what hasn’t Obama done that wasn’t foolish and destructive to the Democratic Party?
If Obama does anything but defend Social Security he will lose his base. The only thing that needs to be done is to eliminate the payroll tax wage cap and it will be solvent forever.
What I want to know is when do the rich and the corporations make sacrifices? It’s always the middle class and the poor. It’s the rich that got us in the predicament and they get bailouts and are made whole. The middle class and the poor are expected to man up and pay up.
I think the Republicans will do nothing to improve the economy and hope that’s that enough to retake all the branches of government and then lookout. We’ll hear a ton about Democratic obstructionism leading to repeal to the filibuster. These guys aren’t going to respect tradition. Then you’ll hear about nothing can be done about 10% unemployment. It is the new normal. They’ll continue to ship jobs overseas. The bible thumpers will continue electing the bastards.
The most amazing thing in all of this is that Republicans have convinced the rubes to vote against their own best interests.
Bernake is doing everthing he can to prevent the economy from going over a cliff. He’s using the tools he has available. He wrote an Op-Ed that practically begged for better tax policy and more stimulus. No chance in hell you will see more stimulus. The chances of a Depression went up on Tuesday night. The Republicans play politics while the economy implodes and they’ll try to pin it on the Democrats.
It’s been a number of monthes since deciding I couldn’t vote for Obama again no matter how many pretty speeches he gives between now and 2012. He just can’t be trusted to fight for us. Living in Connecticut however, there are a number of good candidates serving in Congress led by my favorite Joe Courtney, that are worth fighting for and supporting. Someday soon we’ll get rid of Joe LIE-berman, but in the meantime it’s important to start thinking about pressuring this President to be the best one-term President he can be, then get out because he doesn’t really have the stomach for it (and neither do I for watching him take punches then throw us under the bus).
Is he really what he pretends to be? I’m not sure but it’s time to start looking for his replacement. At least find someone else we can vote for wit a clear conscience. I will no longer reward candidates for using progressive and labor issues as their bargaining chips to be given away to the corporations as he has consistently done and be seen as the scapegoat at the same time.
That’s over!
and i sometimes think i’m Catherine the Great, Tsarina of the Russias…/s
that may be busher, but there’s an argument to be made we are already in a Depression. I’m certainly not saying that things couldn’t get much, much worse, but with “official” U3 at 9.7% and U6 at 17.5% (and i think those numbers may be under-reported) and banks and corporations sitting on over 2 trillion USD and refusing to lend or hire, things sure ain’t great…the weak ass stimulus package passed in 2009 has only managed to delay the collapse of state budgets and failed to create any new jobs… Heckuva job Larry Summers, indeed!
You are talking to people with a below average intelligence! Good luck with that!
Yes the sickening message that people got was that a “Democratic” president and a “Democratic” house and a basically “Democratic” senate did fuck all for them. And did fuck all trying to do…as little as possible. So… they are trying a Republican instead.
As long as we play this pin pong game and Obama is labeled as a socialist as he moves farther to the right than Reagan we are assured that the next one up will be a Republican-and they will be even more fascist and more corporate and then we can hire a “Democrats” to start the process again, farther right than Bush.
Unless some truth tellers break free, not much to change with the game.
Of course Issa won’t do this because he is in the tank to the corportaions, but I think a reasonable argument for impeachment could be made by examinig the Administration’s role in covering up the ill-effects of the BP oil spill. Too bad we couldn’t have a productive investigation, but, as we know, the government is so broke, in so many ways.
At this point anything that diminishes his chances to be the party’s 2012 nominee I’m all for. First he lost it with me on DADT. Then I’m hearing today he’s compromising on Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. He keeps using the “running into the ditch metaphor.” Ironic, since it’s exactly what he’s done to us.
David Sirota has a colorful take on the post-election messaging.
Let me state this whole thing in a simple way.
Every one works all the life. Saves thanks to FDR a huge percentage of his paycheck every paycheck fully redeemable by Treasury Bonds safest currency, same currency which rest of the world saves in. In his golden years he comes to know of one kid who has HUGE wisdom & smarts according to MSM which is fully paid to say that, on how to spend those treasury bonds. This kid wants to pay totalitarian regime their due amounts since they get very angry if cheated but deny his older now weak generation their nominal dues from their younger year savings. He is told that Great Depression can happen by removing ability for this generation to create ever-present stimulus in the economy and in this depression environment with his money he can become super-rich by buying stuff he wanted at dirt-cheap prices which was not affordable before. I do not consider these actions as moral at all and I do not think any human being thinks it as moral.
Thanks Jane for pointing and flagging this Democratic party gutting MSM nonsense as always.
Republican dislike for him is of no concern to me. He is a convenient target. It’s his actions that define who he is.
I’m not entirely clear what your message is.
I’m not entirely clear what your message is.
commonsensor wrote:
“UGH! I can’t stand this anymore – ok, some clarification here:
1) PLEASE STOP this ridiculous notion that America “voted against it’s own interest” by repeating the ridiculously false ASSumption that Democrats all bailed and switched parties. HARDLY! The Dems didn’t get shoved off that cliff, they JUMPED and the only thing the “base” did (because of course, we aren’t voters with brains, we’re just pawns that jump when we’re told) was refuse to lay down the safety net at the bottom.
2) The most perfect examples of exactly WHY America is so screwed can be found in at least a dozen of the comments above. As long as we all buy hook, line and sinker in the Two-Party system we are destined to this madness.
**Definition of madness in this case being: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You know, like toggling back and forth between two of the same party. Which in practice, they are.
We can’t even begin to change one damn thing about all that is happening until we are ready to change our preprogrammed political language and our caustic dialogue.
Focus people, and let’s start brainstorming like adults and not angry teens who’ve had too much Red Bull.
That would be a special message to YOU, PSALONGO”
Here’s one. I will be doing this again with different information.
Here’s one take on the QE move: http://moslereconomics.com/2010/11/05/qe-and-the-wealth-effect/
Here’s another: http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2010/10/18/why-quantitative-easing-wont-work/
And another:
http://www.newdeal20.org/2010/10/18/qe2-wont-save-our-sinking-ship-23653/#comment-9346
And yet another:
http://www.winterspeak.com/2010/10/federal-reserve-should-run-overdraft.html#comments