I was on Dylan Ratigan show discussing Barack Obama’s appearance on the Daily Show. There were some claims made about the impact of the health care bill that are, at best, obfuscations:
| What Obama said | What the health care bill actually does |
| “You’ve got 30 million people who are going to get health insurance as a consequence of this.” | 30 million people are “covered,” but due to insufficient subsidies and cost controls many people may not be able to “use” the coverage they have been forced to purchase. See Wheeler, Marcy: Health Care on the Road to Neo-Feudalism. |
| “You’ve got a Patient’s Bill of Rights that makes sure that insurance companies can’t drop you… | |
| a)… when you get sick if you’ve been paying premiums” | There are already many states that have laws on the books prohibiting people from being dropped when they’re sick, but without an enforcement mechanism, there is little to hold the insurance companies in check. The bill does not empower a regulatory body to keep people from being dropped when they’re sick.
Thus when it was discovered in April that Wellpoint was targeting breast cancer patients for recision following the passage of the health care bill, nothing had changed — according to Reuters, WellPoint lobbyists “helped quash proposed provisions that would have required a third party review of its or any other insurance company’s decision to cancel a customer’s policy.” Former Wellpoint VP Liz Fowler wrote the initial draft of the heath care bill, and now works in the White House implementing oversight of the bill. |
| c)”…that make sure there aren’t lifetime limits” | Only policies written after October 1, 2010 are mandated to adjust lifetime limits, which will be phased in between now and 2014. The Department of Labor said that removal of lifetime limits would add less than 1% to insurance company costs because it will impact relatively few people, a figure President Obama has echoed. However Anthem Blue Shield, one of the nation’s largest insurers, says that it will cause the cost of individual market plans to “rise by as much as 22.9 percent” across the board. |
| d)”…make sure that kids who … don’t have health insurance can stay on their parents’ health insurance until they’re 26″ | As Dave Dayen wrote at the time, in May the Department of Health and Human Services “helpfully pointed out to insurance companies how they can avoid the requirement that dependents can stay on their parent’s policies until the age of 26″: “The new policy applies only to health insurance plans that offer dependent coverage in the first place: while most insurers and employer-sponsored plans offer dependent coverage, there is no requirement to do so.” Further, insurance companies are skirting the requirement that they cover children with pre-existing conditions: six major companies have announced they will no longer write new policies for individual children. |
| e)”…And cuts the deficit by over a trillion dollars” | Politifact: “Obama is presenting a highly speculative number as a hard fact. The CBO believes the health care bill will continue to improve the deficit in second 10 years. In an Oct. 22, 2010 presentation on the economic effects of the health care bill, CBO director Douglas W. Elmendorf said the legislation sets up a number of experiments in delivery and payment systems, but “it is unclear how successful the experiments will be.” For that reason, and others, the CBO noted that the uncertainties involved are too great to create detailed projections. And so now, as then, we rate Obama’s statement Half True. |
| “Well we didn’t get 100% of what we wanted, we got 90% of what we wanted, so let’s focus on the 10% we didn’t get as opposed to the 90% that we did.” | Despite the fact that Obama said he supported the public option in a speech to Congress in September 2009, the New York Times reported he had already dealt it away by July of that year. So one can only take him at his word — he did get 90% of what he wanted. |
| “And right now there is a woman in New Hampshire who doesn’t have to sell her house to get her cancer treatments because of that health care bill … She doesn’t think it’s inconsequential. She doesn’t think it’s timid.” | Demagoging the few people who have been helped so far just so Obama can obscure the utter failure of the high risk program and issue a positive press release is particularly dishonest.
The CBO estimated in April that by this time, there would be 375,000 formerly uninsured people enrolled in the high risk pool. The federal government won’t release the statistics of how many are currently enrolled nationwide, but California has received fewer than 450 applications, and Texas had enrolled about 200 people by September. Actual enrollment is only a small fraction of what was projected. The reason? The cost is too high, and it’s too hard for people who need the coverage to meet the eligibility requirements. Basically, the high risk pool is the health care bill’s version of HAMP. |
| “Look I would love not to have a 60 vote requirement” | The health care bill passed through reconciliation. It only required 50 votes in the Senate (plus Joe Biden). |
| “We’ve got a whole bunch of rules about lobbyists interacting with the White House that are very different from any White House before.” | Obama has enforced the rules against those who lobbied for human rights, but waived them for Raytheon and other big government contractors. |
| “If somebody wants to come to visit the White House, now that list is given out to everybody. That’s a change.” | The White House only agreed to release the full visitor logs after they were sued by CREW. Since that time, they have notoriously been meeting people they don’t want to appear on the logs at coffee shops near the White House. |
| STEWART: 2014 is when these exchanges kick in and there will be some sort of price controls, but up until that point, there’s really nothing in this bill that doesn’t allow these insurance companies to raise rates …
OBAMA: Not true … in fact what we’ve done is we have empowered state insurance commissioners to review the rate hikes that are taking place in states. In some states like North Carolina they have already used it and rolled back premium increases by 25%. |
What is he talking about? The bill gave insurance commissioners money to review rate hikes, but if their state government doesn’t give them the power to adjust rates, it didn’t give them any power to do anything about it.
The 6.7% rate increase requested by Blue Cross was limited to 5.37% by the North Carolina Department of Insurance in September. The 6.7% wasn’t “rolled back” — it was never approved in the first place. The Department of Insurance did so under powers they already had, not by virtue of anything the health care bill gave them. Blue Cross was, however, forced to pay $156 in one-time refunds to people because of provisions for medical loss ratios in the bill. Medical Loss Ratio means that if your insurer spends too much on advertising or executive salaries or lobbyists, the health care reform will require the insurer to give you a rebate. It’s really one of the only things that puts any restriction on how much money insurance companies can skim off the top. However, the administration is in the process of granting so many waivers when large corporations threaten to drop coverage completely that its future impact is in serious question. |
I’m assuming Stewart’s comment about “quid pro quo” and the deal between the drug companies and the White House over drug reimportation was a reference to this:
CARPER: I’ll tell you — if someone negotiated a deal with me and I agreed to put up say, 80 dollars or 80 million dollars or 80 billion dollars and then you came back and said to me a couple of weeks later — no no, I know you agreed to do 80 billion and I know you were willing to help support through an advertising campaign this particular — not even this particular bill, just the idea of generic health care reform? No, we’re going to double — we’re going to double what you agreed in those negotiations to do. That’s not the way — that’s not what I consider treating people the way I’d want to be treated.
That just doesn’t seem right to me.
Obama didn’t address Stewart’s point about “quid pro quo.”




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Great summary, Jane. I guess Obama is more into truthiness than truth. Thanks for everything you and FDL has done to bring actual truth, i.e., reality, to the health care discussion!
Interesting summary but just as misleading in its own way as some of Obama’s answers. For example, yes the health bill passed needing only 50 votes. But Obama was referring to the fact that the bill wouldn’t have even gotten to a vote without the 60 vote filibuster.
Obama also said something about Democrats having used the 60-vote threshold to hold Bush back from things he wanted to do; despite his caveat that ‘now it is much worse’ any language like that feeds into the anti-DC they-all-do-it mentality that loyal Democrats hate hearing, especially House Democrats who were made to take, um, tough votes in the foxholes on issues the Senate deigned not to even take up.
I thought the funniest part of the appearance was just as Obama walked on stage and shook Jon Stewart’s hand, though: it was immediately apparent that the set designers forgot Stewart’s ‘greeting stepstool’ on which he stands for the handshake, to minimize his own shortness. Obama towered over Stewart, so much so that Stewart walked away stage left for the balance of the crowd’s adulation and wouldn’t return until he got Obama to sit down.
Thanks very much for this incisive summary, Jane, and thank you also for watching what to me is just an exercise in futility. I cannot abide watching or listening to the Great Pretender anymore, but I confess that I appreciate the efforts of those who do and can list out the many and numerous lies that Obama makes constantly.
I can see that I made the correct choice in staying away from my tv last night. There’s nothing new to learn here. Obama is now WYSIWYG: a NeoCon pretending to be a NeoLiberal. A liar pretending to tell the truth. A far-right Republican pretending to be a center-left Democrat. A POTUS pretending that 60 votes are required in the Senate. A POTUS pretending that he cares for the average voter. A POTUS pretending that comedian Jon Stewart was lobbing him hard balls.
And so: on it goes….
picky picky picky
Thank you for the excellent summary, Jane.
Obama and the rest of the Villagers see the world through the prism of the ivory tower. The rest of us see it through the gunsmoke.
Very well done on Ratigan, Jane — I missed the very beginning (since when does Dylan put bloggers on at the top of the hour, huh!? — but was the paper he kept waving this very post?
One episode of TDS I couldn’t watch.
Can’t believe it, but I’m at the exact same place with O I was with W. I can’t stand to see his face, hear his voice, or even hear his name.
At one of the greatest crossroads this country has ever faced, we get one of the biggest liars in the hisotry of pols.
Folks have every right to be pissed. Our country needed better.
I feel exactly the same. If I hear BHO on the radio, or see something on tv, I immediately turn it off. I canNOT stand being lied to constantly. Obama enrages and annoys me waaaaay more than W because I never expected anything else from that legacy spawn of a CIA father. I had serious doubts about Obummer, but wow… just wow. What. a. Tool.
And that reference was highly misleading. Yes, the original crappy Senate version of the bill required 60 votes to pass there, and that’s the ONLY reason why going that route made any sense. However, once that was done, the bill could have been modified during reconciliation with only 50 Senate votes (plus Biden’s) to include the public option or even Medicare for All (plus other desirable items like drug reimportation to reduce prices, as long as they actually affected the budget, which the three I just mentioned indisputably do – in fact, they lower the deficit, hence arguably would not be subject to the kind of sunset limitations that Bush’s tax cuts were).
So the suggestion that Obama just couldn’t get things like the public option on which he had campaigned so explicitly into the final bill because 60 Senate votes were required is, quite simply, an outright lie.
Obama and the Dems are abject liars about HCR and they are going to pay the price in 5 days.
A heavy and justifiable price.
I third that resentment.
Outstanding summary Jane.
Barack Obama Might As Well Be Bush
Give ‘em Hell, Jane!
Thank you for not letting go of this, Jane. Look forward to seeing the Ratigan clip (I hope he actually let you talk a bit :)
i would say that what she has said is stupid because they didn’t get the other ten percent they want to vote for rethugs well i say welcome to them i would rather vote for a dog
Thanks for the great summary Jane — btw, I noticed that you weren’t one of the bloggers invited to the White House to meet with Obama. Hmmmmm . . . I wonder why?
Too bad, I’m certain your presence would have resulted in a much livelier conversation.
and you will probably pay the price in six days i hope you have real good health or are independently wealthy
Colbert is in to truthiness.
Obama is just a liar.
Nice analogy. I can’t help but think that this must look a whole lot better from the perspective of those who aren’t going to be forced to buy it and already have something that is light years better. It reminds of the conservatives, (and conservative “Democrats”), who keep telling me how soft we’ve got it what with 99 weeks of $350.00 unemployment checks.
Yes. Too bad that you & I will also have to pay a heavy price in terms of mandated way too expensive health insurance costs, less coverage, and crappier service. But I know: let’s *blame* it on Olympia Snow…
Always nice to see progressives get a bit of TeeVee time!
As for the Health Care Fiasco, if it was actually a solid deal for the population it’s provisions would not (mostly) have been delayed until 2014. No politician on the planet would provide his successor* with such a legislative goodie.
*Not sure which is more disturbing, a pol who delays a stinky mess or one who uses health care as a threat-carrot to get a second term.
How did you possibly get that? If I understand your almost incoherent rant, you think that Jane is suggesting that we vote for Republicans because of Obama’s failure on health care and his continued lying about it? Maybe you’re unaware but Obama isn’t on the ballot this cycle.
Huh. I should have read the thread first — clearly not an original thought ; )
We are not going to fix this nation if the corporatist lying Dem whores keep power. They need to be flushed from the scene or an honest progressive party formed.
It’s because no criticism is allowed by any Narcissist.
Wow, that’s cool, my comment is being moderated… I’m just curious, what did I say specifically that triggered that?
I imagine it will get through since I was mocking myself, but still it looks automated and it would be helpful to know what triggered it… Mods?
You’re in a dark place, but you’ve got plenty of company.
Well I can read your comment and I don’t see any mod notes.
I got matches ; )
Nice going, Jane. Esp. you pointing out what a lot of other pro-Dem pundits are loath to express, namely that — as you predicted — the unpopular HCR vote is about to exact pubic vengeance on Dem cave-ins.
Jane,
As usual you’ve done a wonderful job of separating the facts from the fictions. I’ve bookmarked your post so I can bring it up when talking to the tow-the-party-line Obamabots whom I am finding little different than teabaggers in their rigid adherence to what they believe to be the truth as opposed to the truth.
Unfortunately, we’re not Chilean miners, and it doesn’t look like anyone is going to come rescue us.
Thanks Margaret — it was weird, there was a bold heading on the same line as my name that appeared when I posted it. It said (boldly ;) “your comment is being moderated” or something very close to that.
I’ve been commenting here for years and have never seen that. I suspect it is a new feature (since there have been other occasions when moderation was in order on a comment or two I might have made ; )
So I’m just curious if there are auto-triggers we should be aware of. That’s all. It’s no big deal either way…
I’ll be on FDL a little after 4:45 pm EDT, but not for long bc I’l be walking up to the market for some groceries. I expect a clip of the MSNBC segment will be here later.
Obama is our scapegoat. It’s really hard for me to accept the ‘narrative’ that every promise he made he knew to have been a lie. There are other narratives. Just as 9/11 definitely gave Bush & Cheney carte blanche, the financial meltdown definitely foreclosed on Obama’s aspirations. Why the banker mob aren’t seen for being the terrorists they are tells me it’s easier and safer to call Obama a liar. It’s childish. He’s incompetent, of course, bc he doesn’t have $20 trillion of his own to accomplish anything. But if he had $20 trillion of his own money, he wouldn’t have to do what the financial terrorists have been making him do.
Yeah, that’s why I brought matches, we’ll find our own way out. We’re not trapped, just lost ; )
Dang, I missed Jane on Ratigan! I hope someone here puts it up.
Thanks, Jane. This was a great summary! This line is particularly scary – but true –
“… the high risk pool is the health care bill’s version of HAMP.”
That reminds me of all the bullshit about triggers. Haven’t thought that for a while.
they could have gone the reconciliation route to start with and only 50 votes.
That sometimes happens when switches are being thrown behind the scenes. I’ve had that happen once or twice and yep, it’s unsettling.
thank you! Jane
Every time I hear him say “Look” or “Folks” I know he’s about to s**t allover some progressive policy, principle or ideal. He never uses those except to call the people who actually voted for him suckers and losers for believing in anything important than him or the Democratic Party.
Obama is a liar. There’s really nothing else to say about him. He is not fixable. Progressive groups need to join hands and find a candidate to run against him in 2012.
Go, Jane. The more Obama touts his accomplishments, the more he reveals how out of touch he is.
If Obama has accomplished so much, why does he have to tour the country to convince people of it? Why isn’t it obvious? I
Could it be because Obama has stood for next to nothing except making peace with Republicans?
I don’t enjoy being treated like a clueless idiot by this President. We know what’s going on.
It was a stupid post? Pointing out reality is stupid?
Really?
REALLY?
Folks who speak truth are stupid. What does that make folks who lie all the time? Oh nevermind, I know that one. It makes them President.
Oooo, sorry about that. I’ll choose my words a bit more carefully next time ; )
Good to know, thanks again!
I’m always amazed when I DON’T get moderated…..
There is no “60 vote filibuster” of a reconciliation bill. I don’t know why that fact has such a hard time penetrating.
Maybe the inability to process it explains the composition of a self-selecting pool of people who still think the health care bill is really neat.
I know that this is irrational, but I can’t help thinking that those of us Pre-existing Conditions people are going to be the new ‘lepers’. An associate of mine expressed displeasure with me that because of me and the new HCR that he was going to have to pay higher premiums for his insurance. While negotiating a bill with a local hospital I was advised that even though the new HCR bill has PCIP insurance for persons in my situation, that I should be aware that ‘there’s no such thing as a free lunch’. I feel like I am being treated like a freeloader when I am paying premiums just like everyone else and having paid for all of my medical expenses at the higher self pay rate for years. Okay. the HCR bill sucks. Don’t blame me for it. I am just trying to get through my life too, just like the rest of you.
I think Jane and FDL have done incredibly valuable work for our society and that we should not let Obama and the Blue Dogs and New Democrats and the fake Progressive Democrats get away with this no-healthcare, insurance care bill. Kudos to Jane and FDL.
Excellent critique. I guess Obama likes being a son of a bitch and mofo.
Nice associate you have there. Next time you see this associate, could you give him a good kick in the shins from me and tell him it’s a thank you kick for all his empathy.
My comment at #14 was marked as pending review by mods. I figured that I ran afoul of a swear filter. If the mods think that sort of thing is worth their time, who am I to say otherwise? It got approved, so no harm no foul.
Until they actually kill one of my comments for reasons I deem bogus I’m not going to sweat it. It’s tough to manage an on-line community of any size and keep it civil and productive. I’m happy to cut them some slack if they err on the side of caution.
Great points Jane.
As I understand it NC Blue Cross did not pay rebates because of MLR requirements, which don’t go into effect until next year, but rather because they were trying to hoard money in anticipation of future costs from reform. That apparently is a no-no.
Notably, NC Blue Cross controls 97% of the non-group market so when the much-ballyhooed Exchange opens in 2014 there will only be one company on the list. If Obama thinks that’s 90% of what liberals wanted, he needs to get out and talk to us more.
Obams seemed to believe last night that he could sell his pos health care bill by saying that he got 90% of what he wanted. No he didn’t. Nor does the gifts and giveaways to corporations plus bandaids add up to real reform of a broken system.
Thank you Jane and everyone at FDL who have done so much work to sound alarms and speak truth to power. If Obama and sellouts and enablers in the Democratic Party didn’t listen, they have no one to blame but themselves. Unfortunately, there’s still a broken system that needs to be fixed…
Sure. I think I just did that. So much for self-control. Sorry about the dump.
Just clicked on Ratigan’s show, then popped over here to say, “thank you Jane!”
I thought Ratigan’s questions were good, and raising the issue of what happens when the law appears to be protecting the crooks is urgently in need of discussion as a means to cleaning up the mess. (I also thought the Ohio AG made some excellent points.)
It’s just another example of “I’ve got mine, fuck everyone else” mentality that is SO prevalent among us, and is a pre-requisite for being a Republican it seems.
The right wing will even play it up too. “Why should I have to pay more for someone else’s problems” inserting whatever specific issue you want, is another popular example of the “I’ve got mine, fuck everyone else” mentality and really gins up the anger.
Why should I pay school taxes when I don’t have kids?
Why should I pay road taxes when I don’t drive?
Oh, the fucking selfishness is sooooo, American now, it seems.
No sense of community. No sense of I am my brother’s keeper. No sense of we’re all in this together. No sense, period, if you ask me.
And even on a day when Tony Schwartz is on Ratigan’s show ;-)
(Speaking as a huge Tony Schwartz fan. A double-good day for me ;-)
Not really on topic, but the distractive visual clutter of these news shows has gotten beyond ridiculous.
And THIS; the clear, no-nonsense response to Obama’s bullshit, is why Jane Hamsher was NOT invited to the great pre-mid-term foo-foo Q&A feelgood op.
Kudos to she and Ratigan for cutting to the chase, and Kudos to Ratigan for having her on to help him do it. :o)
when I was in my twenties and changing oil at the local VW shop for 1.25 an hour, it never occurred to me to say to my parents who were in their early sixties, “Why should I have to pay for your Social Security and your Medicare?”.
There you go. If you were the kind of person to ask that, you could be a teabagger running for Senate right now.
I wasn’t being clear. I wasn’t complaining, just hoping the mods would give me clue. I’m happy to work within the rules, but that’s easiest when I know what they are : )
It’s incredible how smooth a talker Obama is. He makes you feel as though any reasonable person would believe his words. Yet, we have FDL and Jane so he is not able to work ‘that flashy thing’ and for us to forget that this HCR bill is a piece of corporate vampirism.
As always, great job, Jane.
So clear, so well said AND always sourced, rather than the usual talking points spewed by so many…
Thank you.
Your post was approved, so you didn’t actually break any rules. You just ran afoul of a filter, somehow. My point is, as long as your reasonably-written post gets approved, don’t worry about what filter may have tripped you up. It’s the mods’ problem, not yours. If their filters are chewing up too much of their time on false positives, they can change them.
He is smooth. But when I clicked on that and listened as long as I could (and I admit I couldn’t do the whole thing), I began to see something that was probably already there but I didn’t really notice before.
He was smooth, but he wasn’t saying anything of any substance. Nothing. When he was talking about why reigning in the financial shenanigans was tough, he was basically talking about nothing of significance, yet did it in a way that would make a person go “Yeah, that dude knows his shit.”
Damn he’s good.
Yep. It’s the “tell,” isn’t it?? That’s why I refuse to listen to BHO or watch his sorry self on tv. As soon as I hear that “Look”… I just know it’ll be followed by a LIE of epic proportions.
I *guess* Obama’s “smooth,” but maybe because I’ve seen through his lies and b.s. for so long now, I no longer even grant him the ability to be “smooth.” He’s just a liar.
Great post, Jane. And nice interview with Dylan.
That John Stewart interview was probably the best interview anyone’s done with Obama since he took office.
Finally, someone asked him pointed questions about the back door deals, the timidity of his so called ‘change’.
Not a single MSM reporter would have asked the President tough questions like those, addressing concerns of Obama’s own base.
Also under c) there are still annual limits, which will phase out in 2014(?)
Did you ever read Asimov’s “Foundation Trilogy”? One of the gizmos available to the psychologists was a “semantic analyser”. They applied it to a politician’s speech and – the output was blank.
Not that long ago, it was considered one’s “patriotic duty” to contribute to our nation and to society. That has transmorgified over the years into what we have now: I am only willing to pay for what I choose to USE, and the rest of you are lazy slackers beneath contempt and I assert my “right” to be as selfish and as much of a jerk as possible.
Citizens have been brainwashed to believe that the “common good” is just a “give away” to lazy “poor people” (aka minorities), whose sole goal is to rip off the “hard workers” (aka whites). Truly sad. And the worst thing is that this crappy attitude has driven our nation into the ground.
Superb, disturbing job, Jane. Would love to see annotations in this format become a regular feature. God knows there’s enough material screaming for point-by-point refutation. Maybe (shudder) another top-level sub-site (FDL Annotation?).
No, not irrational at all; quite sane really. And most likely true. One hears all the usual conservative nonsense about how people “only want to buy health insurance when they need it,” and that’s oh so “unfair” to all these “hard workers” who have allegedly paid into the “system” for years. Whyohwhy should they have to pay for “lazy slackers”??
It’s mostly not true, and people with pre-existing conditions have often also “paid into the system for years,” but if they lose their job or whatever, they may be stuck without any options. The fact that someone paid into the system for years doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ll get the health care they need ongoingly no matter what.
It’s very short-sighted, selfish, and frankly quite stupid. But you have a point, I’m sorry to say.
Ayep.
JANE, YOU are absolutely WONDERFUL, I’d follow you most anywhere! But, WHY fund raise for the very same “leaders who could have forced a discussion & vote on the REAL issues on both HCR AND Financial Reform? Why not just vote them out in a year when the Repubs can do very little (more than our own Dems.) to hurt the Country? Why not send a message to the Dem. Party that you are NOT to be fooled with? We’re with you, not them. Why not force them to accept this?
I’m looking forward to Daryll Issa going after Barney Frank and the Dems on all the Maiden Lane corruption counts.
This may be picky, but the Republicans never did pull a filibuster this term. What they did was threaten to filibuster and that gave the Dems the cover to go and do what they intended to do from the start. If a filibuster had actually occurred, who knows what points might have been discussed?
Very good summary and interview, Jane, and I can see why you weren’t one of the bloggers invited to the Obama softball game.
Thanks.
You pay through your job when part of your ‘pay’ are your health benefits. You pay when you are laid off through Cobra. You can’t afford to buy in when you are unemployed and not part of a group or you have lived long enough to have this or that illness.
(Blast in the eyes from flashy thingy).
Now you are a freeloader.
What “filibuster”??
There hasn’t been an actual filibuster – public floor debate that temporarily delays a vote on final passage – in the U.S. Senate in almost two decades (aside from Harry Reid’s gratuitous mid-2000s book-reading stunt). Why? Because both Parties represented in the U.S. Congress today prefer a “Legislative Branch” of government that doesn’t publicly legislate.
It appears, therefore, that you are simply parroting the commercial media and incumbent Party hacks, who provide cover for Obama, and the leadership of the Democratic and Republican Parties in Congress, by pretending that the “cloture motion” (created in 1917) has somehow been magically transformed into the “filibuster” (available as a parliamentary debating tactic since the very beginning of the Senate, and in apparently-broadened form since the very early 1800s).
The inconvenient truth about cloture motions, as opposed to minority filibusters, of course, is that they are a tool of the Senate majority, and are being regularly filed today by Harry Reid and his Democratic caucus (16 members on each cloture motion) in the absence of filibusters, apparently in order to avoid public debate on legislation for which there may not be an overwhelming consensus (as opposed to an approving simple majority) in the Senate.
In other words, the Democratic Party, even as it casts all blame on the Republican Party, has itself voluntarily imposed supermajority rule on the Senate, by refusing to honor and employ the public debating and legislating purpose of that body – in the process dangerously disregarding the indispensable role such public debate and legislating plays in our representative democracy. Honoring the Senate’s purpose in our Constitutional system would mean that a Senate majority would rarely, if ever, file a supermajority-triggering cloture motion in the absence of an actual filibuster (and then only if that filibuster could not be waited out for a simple-majority vote on final passage).
Both Democrats and Republicans in the Senate today (hiding behind Party and Party leadership) prefer to suspend floor action while the Senate is “in session” (by constantly invoking the modern invention of a fake quorum call, which doesn’t actually call the quorum, to block all Senate floor action) rather than actually facing each other, and the American people, in open debate on the pressing public issues of the day. That disgraceful practice is not caused by the structure of the Senate itself, but rather by the shameful behavior of incumbent Senators who fearfully shun our Senate debating chamber in favor of the ease and stealth of the back room. Just like the failures of the incumbent President aren’t caused by the presidency itself, as opposed to how the presidency is now used and abused, while ceaselessly glorified by the American media and the self-serving incumbents of that office.
In short, our Senate and national self-government would clearly benefit from more of the (authentic) filibuster, given the public debate and simple-majority rule it would help return to the Senate, and from far fewer supermajority cloture motions filed by the Senate majority in the absence of debate. And wonder of wonders – that state of affairs could come into being tomorrow, no rule change(s) or rule abuses or violations needed, on the say-so of a simple Senate majority alone…
P.S. Great rebuttal to Obama’s deceitful spin, Jane.
Ah, more excellent perception on your part.
Once again the curtain is pulled back to expose the wizards, once again the light is shone on the snakes in the dark, once more the reality of truth trumps the deceit of kabuki.
I could go on.
Thanks Mz. Hamsher for all that above, the bleating is deafening at times and FDL is my earplug.
*G*
Ouch!
Well played, sir.
Without filibuster, which Obama and the dems (behind closed doors of course) agreed would never happen, so they COULD ramrod thru the watered down piece of shit written by Liz Fowler.
Geez, Rahm, aren’t back in the Windy City yet?
NIce DLC/DNCC elitist beltway insider bleating Veal Pen talking point, though, Mikey Boy.
You can pick yer friends but you really shouldn’t be pickin yer friends nose’s.
Less yer all into that shit and stuff, then it’s yer own business and best kept behind closed doors . . .
*G*
Obama is as big a f***ing liar as his predecessor, if not bigger. Jane, thank you once again for pwning the massive amounts of spin that came forth out of Hopey McChangerton’s mouth.
Jesus! Are you correct about that! I’m hoping that someone will invent some kind of downloadable filter or device that you can connect to your TV to erase those damn things.
Sports is just as bad. You try to watch highlights, often you can’t see the putt go in or the ball hit the line because the bottom third of the freakin’ screen is obscured by grahics. (Not to mention another freakin’ header across the top!)
Somebody, somewhere, has gotta take most of these toys away from the nerds in the control booth.
MAWBB.
Ok, I can work with that!
*G*
Word, that’s beautiful.
Know you saw gunsmoke in action, appreciate your comment all the more for that.
Thank you. Well said.
Not a new feature. And the management never shares its reasons why comments get moderated, or how. There’s no better way to lose control of civility in debate — muchly prized hereabouts — than to tell folks exactly what’s permitted and what’s not. Although the rules of the MyFDL road pretty much sum things up.
You’ll never find FDL moderation guidelines outside the super-secret Mod Fortress. I don’t know them, don’t want to, get modded sometimes myself (although I can usually guess why). Other people don’t see your modded comments at all; the rest of us see your comment once it’s released.
Excellent point.
I counsel everyone I know — or correspond with — to avoid the “Look…” constructive when on TeeVee. It’s irritating in the extreme, and sets up a disagreement with the host (and the viewer) right outta the box. It’s quite offputting.
And — “folks” is just Obama’s media training showing: “gotta sound more ‘street’, sir.”
Okey -dokey then. So you’ll definitely love the new Republican majority in the House. Those guys LOVE healthcare. WE’ll have EVERYONE covered all the way. ABSOLUTELY!
Did you see Tom Perriello (sp?) on Colbert last night, btw? He was in front of a sponge-painted blue background, in a light green jacket. Just stunning — nothing but that on the half-screen while Colbert’s set bounced and pulsed and strobed around him. It was very compelling: I recommend it to anyone appearing on any show at all nowadays. I couldn’t look away (Tom’s good looks don’t hurt) because it was like a man speaking from the past, when Huntley Brinkley led the way.
Damned Narn Sissies.
*G*
Ah, actually he probably DID get 90% of what he wanted–it just wasn’t 90% of what WE wanted.
Teddy, thanks so much for the explanation. I really appreciate it.
Just for the record though, I don’t like secret laws. Clearly, I spend too much time at EW’s place ; )
President Sarah Palin!
BOO!
Happy Halloween, do I get my Obamabot treat now?
Lotta changes goin on backstage is what the folks at FDL/MyFDL are sayin in many thREADS.
In all the tweaking n know twirlin, I’d bet there are glitches that crop up.
All in all, though, the changes are lookin good to me so far . . . *G*
Healthcare, – what Healthcare? All we got is an Insurance Sector monopoly.
Fair enough! That must have been what he meant. Thanks for the clarification.
Well, they aren’t really laws.
There’s no first amendment issue here. But you knew that. *g*
We’re not lost, we’re surrounded and outnumbered and outgunned and the only thing ‘left’ is to grok that this shit’s unsustainable and will collapse with or without us.
Then, we make our move.
*G*
Phuck that Phred, let the phreak phlag phly!
I miss Phred from Doonesbury. Still.
Yeah, we knew he didn’t really want Public Option, even though he asked for it in September 2009 in front of the entire fucking country and Congress, because it had already been dealt away in the May meeting with ‘stakeholders’ as documented in the NYT. So, he may very well have gotten 90% of what he wanted, except possibly honest brokers on the other side of the transaction, since all of their ads seem to be for the GOP.
Unless, of course, Obama wants a GOP Congress next year.
Nah, just the requisite 100 monkeys at a keyboard sponsored by TPTB.
In a boiler room in someone’s mother’s basement dressed in their pajamas, getting paid for the keystrokes by the cheetoh . . . and likely looking to steal yer credit card number(s) while they are at it . . .
;-)
They seem to come out much anymore only when YER around.
Funneh, that is . . .*G*
It’s a proof of concept. It proves that you’ll watch no matter what they do to you. It proves you let them cum in your eyes and ears.
Yep ; )
Nah, kick ass and best to you and all who want the same rights and care and coverage as those with no need have.
Phuckers, I hate this HCR bill, Liz Fowler, and . . . on and on.
My bad. Best luck TomT.
In cyberspace, no one can hear your speech impediment ; )
Phred was a great character : )
Although it doesn’t affect me personally (Medicare coming in March) I’d be a happy camper for everyone else if they abolished the individual mandates. But of course, that’s likely the only thing they won’t undo.
Did you have to use that metaphor? Couldn’t think of anything less nauseous? I mean, it was a discussion about TV graphics, not like I insulted your family name or anything.
I am still trying to figure out how Barbara Morill got the White House blogger invite, but not Jane.
Maybe it’s because of stuff like this: here is, line by line, what the people didn’t get that they think they got. Very impressive.
If John McCain were in there, you wouldn’t have gotten any of it. So I disagree with the Obama=Bush posters. But it’s a point well worth making that health care reform was watered down into a work in progress.
The last two Democratic presidents have this air of “dare I offend the powerful interests who have lifted me in my career”. The progressive blogosphere wants those interests taken on in a direct fashion, but the President refuses to do it. Clinton’s excuse was that he was stuck with a Republican Congress for 6 years. Obama, if he also ends up with one, really needs to make it clear that the problems America recently faces started with Bush, and that big money and big corporations are getting in the way of labor recovery.
I took the insult as directed at the teevee people, not at you, v.
Apparently a lot of people, particularly the thirty-somethings, will be going the “no thanks” route and just pay the penalty, which is much less than the premiums would be.
I can even see medical insurance being marketed to this cohort: We’ll pay your penalty and give you just the insurance you need for much less than the government plan.
Has anyone looked into the costs and benefits of this?
Oh doggie! Those darn dumb pot smoking bloggers are paying attention again. We don’t even have to watch teevee to figure out Mr. Hope is lying.
Look, “folks” he did his best. It takes time. We need to be patient while he fucks us more and calls it making love.
He did his best to keep the status quo humming. If there were a bigger fraud in politics in my lifetime I can’t imagine who.
What’s Obama’s endgame here? Anyone have ideas? He isn’t stupid, he knew that reaching out to Republicans would get him nowhere quickly, but he did it anyway, spending his political capital with the base all the way to zero.
Now he’s getting it from all sides, the teabagger wingnuttery who won’t ever like anything done by a black President, and those of us that are actually well informed and aren’t cowed by the condescending words out of Professional Democrats that we should eat shit and make believe it’s steak because the other guys are worse. In essence this election is a report card on Obama and the Democrats, and the grades are bad.
So what does Obama get out of this? The catfood commission hasn’t even made it’s splash yet, which will be another nail in the Obama coffin along with any other Democrats foolish enough to vote for it. There is still a ways to the 2012 election, but at this rate he has little to no political capital to spend in order to garner votes for his reelection. And his arrogance betrays a strong desire (or feeling of entitlement) to be reelected. So what’s the rabbit he’s going to pull out of his hat? Afghanistan won’t be ended, and unless the banksters take it on the chin the economy will still suck. I’m trying to figure out where his (corporate bought) head is…
Howdy, Friend!
Sign up on MyFdl, will ya?
I need a friend!
*G*
Another cheetoh yellow fingered drooge in our midst.
“What’s Obama’s endgame here? Anyone have ideas? He isn’t stupid, he knew that reaching out to Republicans would get him nowhere quickly, but he did it anyway, spending his political capital with the base all the way to zero.”
One term.
Hand it all back to the GOP.
Service to the corporate fascists.
End of New Deal reality.
End of all entitlements.
End of any hope for a multi tiered economic system with access for all to the top tier.
End of anything constitutional that protects the masses and does NOT protect the Executive.
End of most of the amendments.
That enuff? That’s his game, that’s the plan, those are the one’s in charge, TPTB.
You new here? OR new in life?
Your points are well taken, thanks for the snarky insult as well. My point was that he has a sizable ego (all Presidents have it) and somewhere in his brain believes he can be re-elected, but those pesky voters aren’t lockstepping all in a row like the Republicans…so what kind of BS is he going to sell us 18 months from now?
If you believe Obama has been disingenuous about every campaign promise, Knox, like many of us here do…then yes, Obamco did get 90% of what he wanted on the POS Health Care bill.
He made the comment when he told Stewart that his base should stop whining about not getting the 10% he didn’t get, as though the pos he did get was 90% of what we wanted.
We supported real health care reform.
We voted for the guy who promised real health care reform.
Gifts and giveaways to corporations plus a few bullshit bandaids don’t add up to real reform of a badly broken system.
I have seen nothing to convince me that I should bother supporting Obama or Congressional Democrats in 2010 or 2012.
Wow, I hadn’t noticed that sharp a correlation, though I had seen some coffeeshop meeting photos recently and did kind of wonder why I was seeing them.
This kind of “social” get-together among pols is popular in Chicago, as one might guess. A famous one involved Rep. Danny Davis and State Sen. Ricky Herndon chatting about schools and neighborhoods and stuff with School Board President Michael Scott and CPS executive Arne Duncan, over breakfast at Edna’s, famous as a meeting place for Dr. King and others participating in the SCLC’s West Side movement; video at this link.
(This goes nowhere with me except as a glimpse of the ever-present human dimension, but as it happens Michael Scott and Edna Stewart of Edna’s have since both departed this frame, Ms. Stewart just a few months ago after a battle with illness and Mr. Scott about a year ago under disturbing circumstances.)
Correction: It’s State Sen. Hendon, not Herndon.
Straight up and straight out, this arrogant liar pulled a Billy Clinton. Sold out the country, sold us all out for ACCESS. Access to the ‘right’ people, the level of society that he thinks he and his should move into. Hell, maybe his girls will nab themselves a Wall Street up-and-comer like little Chelsea did.
I wish for him and his the same misery and deprivation that he is condemning millions of young Americans to. Him and all the arrogant, greedy, deceitful trash that he drug along with him. (Oh, and the jackass that came up with that craptastic two-toned blue circle D ‘logo too.)
Obama reminds me of when I was about 12 and watched wrestling on TV in New York City. All the matches were highly theatrical, usually with a “good” guy wrestler against a “bad” guy.
Then one night, one of my favorite “good” pair of tag-team wrestlers showed up in their match and became “bad”! They started throwing chairs, choking their opponents in the corner, and all the other stylized rough stuff that the bad guys did. I was incensed, I guess, but consciously mostly confused.
I suppose, given the big play act switch by Obama, that the theatrical nature of our money-driven “representative democracy” should be more a cause for sober reflection of our naivete than anger toward the cipher who’s playing the role.
It the economy stupid is going to bite the D’s on the ass big time next Tues. It might be BV$H’s depression but Pres. Barry “Hoover” Obama and his party are going to take the fall for it. Four yrs. wasted. All that struggle just so these scumbags could rack in the graft. F*ck em if they can’t take a joke.
You got plenty of friends, including me.
You checkin’ out the cost of living in Costa Rica? :o)
Regarding Firedoglake.com’s Jane Hamsher’s analysis on Obama’s appearance on John Stewart. (Love you Jane Hamsher, you ginger beauty, you!)
Obama’s a cool cat, no doubt about it. But Jane Hamsher and I were unimpressed with his candor, claims or excuses. He got through it without too much stammering, but you know Stewart nailed him in his humble, brilliant way.
Why doesn’t Obama just come out and admit there are forces larger than we can imagine that pull an American president’s strings before his first steps are directed towards the White House after an election. Hell, maybe even before the election! Those powers are huge multinational corporations who don’t give a bloody damn about anything but the profits they make the NEXT quarter and filthy war profiteering, war mongering military industrialists who work OVERTIME to insure that the world sustain as much war, death and violence as possible in order to make the most profits the NEXT quarter.
Anyway, why doesn’t he just come out and say, “I am sorry for all the garbage bills we have produced in the last 18 months but these powers have me by the balls and I want to live! I want my wife and children to be safe! Yeah, I was instructed by the men upstairs to achieve a continuity with the Bush Cheney Crime Syndicate by continuing, with my corporate hack lawyer, Holder, to expand the powers of the Executive Branch. One day the boys upstairs will just merge with the Executive Branch and we won’t even need the other two branches anymore. Of course, the exhausted money-grubbing House members have been more than happy to hand over as many of their responsibilities and powers over to the Executive Branch as possible! That way they have more time to be corrupted with bribes from corporations and the boys up top, lobbyists, the US Chamber of Commerce, foreign countries and special interest groups. No problem. The Senate? That bunch of pompous blowhards will go along with anything powerful concerns disire! The Judicial. Well Ginni and Scalia has that branch already in control! The media: If Fox don’t like it, I can’t do it. If Fox says it true, I know it’s true and I fire employees and defund honest organizations without further questions. The rest of you are just flies buzzing in my face.”
He might ask, “What do want from me?! I want to live and I want my wife and kids to be safe. Quit being so tough on me, dammit!” If he came clean there would be those of us that would want to rush to his aid to protect him, his family and our little democracy!
Unless, of course, he’s quite happy playing the progressives’ foil and/or the Trojan horse.
(Love you Jane Hamsher, you ginger beauty, you!)
Obama’s a cool cat, no doubt about it. But I was unimpressed with his candor, claims or excuses. He got through it without too much stammering, but you know Stewart nailed him in his humble, brilliant way. In his own “timid” way.
Why doesn’t Obama just come out and admit there are forces larger than we can imagine that pull an American president’s strings before his first steps are directed towards the White House after an election. Hell, maybe even before the election! Those powers are huge multinational corporations who don’t give a bloody damn about anything but the profits they make the NEXT quarter. There’s also filthy war-profiteering, war-mongering military industrialists and weapons dealing magnates who work OVERTIME to insure that the world sustain as much war, death and violence as possible in order to make the most profits the NEXT quarter.
Anyway, why doesn’t Obama just come out and say, “I am sorry for all the bullshit bills we have produced in the last 18 months but these powers have me by the balls and I want to live! I want my wife and children to be safe! With the aid of my crack press sec Gibbs and my triangulating Clinton spy, Emmanuel, and self-proclaimed genius Axelrod, we’ve made great beltway ballyhoo over these bills that are the most powerful bills in the history of the country!”
“Yeah, I was instructed by the men upstairs to achieve a continuity with the Bush Cheney Crime Syndicate by continuing, with my corporate hack lawyer, Holder, to expand the powers of the Executive Branch. (Is Holder the new Gonzales?) One day the boys upstairs will just merge with the Executive Branch and we won’t even need the other two branches anymore. “
“Of course, the exhausted money-grubbing House members have been more than happy to hand over as many of their responsibilities and powers over to the Executive Branch as possible! Like trade agreements. (They let Bill and W take care of that boring stuff even though it is supposed to be their job. That’s how they slipped NAFTA into our drinks!) That way they have more time to be corrupted with bribes from corporations and the boys up top, lobbyists, the US Chamber of Commerce, foreign countries and special interest groups. No problem.”
“The Senate? That bunch of pompous blowhards will go along with anything that powerful concerns disire! The Judicial. Well Ginni and Scalia have that branch in the bag! The media: If Fox don’t like it, I can’t do it. If Fox says it’s true, I know it’s true and I fire employees and defund honest organizations without further questions! The rest of you are just flies buzzing in my face.”
He might ask, “What do want from me?! I want to live and I want my wife and kids to be safe. Quit being so tough on me, dammit!”
If he came clean there would be those of us that would want to rush to his aid to protect him, his family and our little democracy! I mean we loved the guy, the hope he symbolized.
Unless, of course, he’s quite happy playing the progressives’ foil and/or the Trojan horse. What do we do then??
Excellent analysis Jane
One point – the Federal minimum loss ratio rules do not take effect until 1/1/2011, so no rate reduction can be attributed to them (although they exist at the state level in a few states, I am not aware of any state actions this year).
And the waivers that have been granted have been for “mini-med” tiny premium / tiny benefit policies that were in theory outlawed – although the MLR is also being waived for these policies. The major problem is the NAIC recommendation “modifying” the expected ratio of claims paid to health service providers to premiums received into a new ratio that “adjusts” the premium by removing taxes and license fees paid, and adjusts claims paid by adding advertising and other costs involved in providing any additional benefit to individual policyholders such as a nursing hot line (this item will include allocated management cost so that CEO bonus is now a claim cost). HHS must approve – but Obama has signaled that he has ordered HHS to accept the NAIC recommendation.
With all due respect to the progressives here, as an independent this is a pretty good example of why that assh*le lost my vote for good. Indies like me supported the public option, or at least some change that doesn’t benefit those directly opposed to it. This is not it.
To be honest, Oblahma did us a favor. He brought us to our senses and reminded us why most of us utterly hate the DemoRAT party. The Republicans’ bigotry and loopiness is grating and tiresome, but in the end mostly sad ignorance. The mendacious, loathsome DemoRATS prove time and time and time again that they prefer only ideology, policy, and political “victories” that leave you further and further dependent on them, and them alone.
Good points. However, I’d like to see a follow-up article on what questions you would ask Obama, as frankly I felt Stewart let him off the hook. Here are some questions I would like him to answer. In addition, to that 50,000 deaths from lack of health insurance, how did your plan address the 600,000 that die each year from tobacco poisoning, 80,000 from alcohol poisioning, 200,000 from acute toxin poisoning or diseases such as parkinson’s that are know to be caused by unknown toxins, 400,000 deaths related to food products such as high salt, trans fats, high sugars, toxins, 200,000 medical caused primarily by insurance companies that don’t give physicians enough time to do their job right, 150,000 deaths to unnecessary wars, 50,000 per year from firearms, 60,000 workplace deaths etc. …
Why did you not permit anyone for the public option at your health care submit
Why isn’t Howard Dean a part of your administration or Chair of the Democractic Pary and don’t you believe that was a mistake.
Your VP gave a speech about “That’s not change, That’s more of the same.” What part of that speech do you believe still applies to your administration. That is, “is there a part of your health change that you enacted that actually is not just more of the same.
Very well explained .. what a f**ked up system ..
Jane, ya did it again. You’re telling it straight up like very few will. Your straightforwardnes makes me feel, makes me feel like Madeline Kahn in Young Frankenstein.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWrCf7rAytc
brilliant response .. as a Canuck, I avoid direct comment, but appreciate free speech at work ..
Thanks Jane!
“We have a deal” It’s just not fair…sniff
Sen Carper (D)
That D is supposed to indicate Democrat
I was shocked he said “person” one time rather than “folks” (drink). Maybe he wanted to give “folks” (drink) a pause from the drinking game everytime he says “folks” (drink).
I decided after 10 times saying this that it was pointless to count.
Because for a tought to penetrate:
1. The person must think
2. The person must be open to an idea and/or fact
3. The person must have time to do the above
So that is at least 3 ways to prevent knowledge. We are not going to overcome #3, but at least #2, and hopefully #1.
The 90% comment was a stupid and tone deaf as the “heckuva job Summers” he spit out.
Who the F in the WH came up with that? The Ax? What a joke. The above was a shadow of Bush (heckuva job Brownie post Katrina), and the 90% was an echo of Rove (we have THE math).
WRONG.
WRONG.
In this specific case:
Why should I pay higher premiums for sick people… until I am sick and everyone else should pay for me.
Why should I pay taxes for schools unless my kids are in school at their current age.
Why should I pay for social security if I am not collecting it.
Why should I pay more than 2.9% corporate taxes when I stand on the shoulders of giants & given that I have tax loopholes and havens (google).
WHY SHOULD I SUPPORT STEM CELL RESEARCH UNLESS SOMEONE I LOVE MAY BENFIT FROM IT!
Or more simply put:
I got mine, everyone else can FOAD.
No, Obama needs to make it clear that the problems end with Obama. By making them end, and then talking about it.
Don;t forget, the end of the fillabuster – even though they never fought it. Once its all under controll they won’t want any upstarts using it, should Mr. or Mrs. Smith ever get to Washington.
Obama hinted that health care reform was just getting started – how about a commitment to keep pushing for single payer, or at least a public option – when does the fight resume for that? Looking forward is fine, but war crimes can’t go unpunished either – my 2 cents here.