Yeah, but there were many so-called progressive Democrats bending over backwards to explain why we “needed” a goddamn mandate. Idiots. To hell with them all.

The polls always said it was unpopular, the Democrats voted for it anyway. If the Democratic party was my responsibility, I’d be upset by this. Why is everyone else unhappy, though?

Wyden knows full well that there is no way to meet the PPACA’s coverage requirements without a mandate. This is political posturing.

Wyden showed his true (New Dem) colors with the Wyden-Gregg tax reform bill. It consists of a flatter tax (3 brackets with no EITC or child tax credits) which means the poor will pay more and the rich will pay less. Not progressive.

Define “public option”

Wyden isn’t my Senator, but he lost my respect when I saw him shilling for compromise on HCR. What we got was not really a compromise. I feel, that throughout the HCR stupidity, Wyden and many other so-called Democrats are the ones who became compromised.
Why on Earth can’t I just pay x% tax on income and get my medical bills paid in return? What is so hard about that concept? Many other countries do just that, but instead of examining their health care systems, taking what works, dropping what doesn’t work, and fixing what “kinda” works, the Senate, (including Wyden) decided it would be best to pee on us instead.

Imagine if FDR had designed Social Security this way. Instead of a tax financed pension program, we’d have “mandates” requiring people to buy annuities from private insurance companies. Social Security, Obama style.

In 2009 the house passed and sent over 1000 bills to the Senate which were never acted on because everything was waiting while the Senate worked on Healthcare Reform. HCR was hardly worth the wait.

I agree that this is just political posturing and that, like O, Wyden is following the model of saying one thing while forcing the opposite on ‘small’ folks.

Why on Earth can’t I just pay x% tax on income and get my medical bills paid in return?

Because then medical insurance corps couldn’t rip you off as easily.

“I told you so!” doesn’t have the satisfaction that it used to. The left of the left has been right on all the major issues going all the way back to Bush Jr. I find it very painful to play the role of Cassandra.

Why doesn’t anyone take us seriously? I’m just baffled …

——-

But on a lighter note … I told you so, bitches!

Oregon loves their healthcare plan selling his voters on this though would be political suicide. The voters will ask why can’t we just expand our plan and get the savings we get from our plan to cover everyone better than the Obama plan.

The only people that like the “health” care reform are the insurance cartels and big pharma and of course Rahm Emmanuel. Wants that corporate cash in the campaign coffers.

Can we mount a lawsuit to challenge the mandate to purchase a commercial product as unconstitutional in a federal court? I’d contribute to it.

Why must we look at that Blue Dog Newsweek political expert Howard Fineman on both Countdown and Maddow? The guy is a milkqueltoast Republican Lite.
Oh yes. Nevermind.

Because we don’t line their pockets.

This has been another episode of simple…

Oh yeah…I am so stupid sometimes!
When am I gonna get it through my thick skull:
In America we ain’t got no common sense!

Oregon is proud of their plan even regular nonpolitical people gush about it when telling people new to the state about it as I remember.
Is anyone gushing about the Obama plan? Ron has a voter population educated on healthcare issues. He has voters who have years of experience with a plan that works and know how it works personally or from friends and relatives.
They have by now looked at the details of the Obama plan and are not happy.

“Wyden’s modest attempt to back away from the individual mandate probably is good politics. It also shows his willingness to listen to the will of the voters.”

It also demonstrates pretty clearly that the individual mandate cannot possibly be enacted and enforced in any fair, national way and that even the authors of the law are trying to avoid it for thier own home districts. shit can the mandate.

Thinking of sending Rachel an email with a suggestion that she wear an ‘Obamabot’ sign on her neck.

medicare buy in

If only the Obama plan had the savings of the Oregon plan Ron might have sold it to his voters. He needs an exception for his state or he faces a likely Primary challenge from the Left.

Not a problem. Plenty of people here who will set you straight when you go awry. And do it politely too. *g*

Good analogy.

The Rethuglicans (all) who promise to repeal Obamacare have no intention of doing so. Insurance companies would punish them for it.

Instead, rethuglicans will gut the Medicaid expansion and any parts that might benefit the public. Rethugs will not touch the mandate – only the parts that might cut insurance company profits.

Mandates are just as good for Repthuglicans as they are for Dems.

No Public Option = NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATE

Yes, in fact the groups you mentioned approving of it are really Obamarahma’s constituency, not us.

The thing is the insurance companies and drug companies need to get the cash from forcing tax payers into the Obama plan which guarantees them fat rates they don’t want the nation to see Oregon as an example of a plan that has years worth of track record working and is cheaper than the Obama plan.
If Ron gets an exception for his state Wallstreet healthcare, insurance and drug stocks take a tumble.
No GOPer can win in Oregon opposing the Oregon plan Ron can’t win a Dem primary without an exception for his state we need to start looking for a Primary challenge this is the perfect chance for us.

Been awhile nice to see you again.:)

Rachel’s unanswered question before TRMS went to commercial:

Whose idea was it to let Simpson anywhere near Social Security?

Well, Rachel, we have Barack Obama to thank for that. You should have the courage to state explicitly that Obama appointed that shameless wingnut to his Catfood Commission.

The Oregon Health Plan was conceived and realized by emergency room doctor John Kitzhaber, then a state senator,[1] and Dr. Ralph Crawshaw, a Portland activist.[2]
It was intended to make health care more available to the working poor, while rationing benefits.[1] At the time, Oregon was considered a national leader in health care reform.[3] The law passed in Oregon was not initially compatible with federal law, so a waiver was needed. President Bill Clinton approved the plan on March 20, 1993, though he required a revision to the plan due to a concern about whether disabled people would have equal access.[4] At the time, Medicaid covered 240,000 Oregonians.[4]
In 1994, the plan’s first year of operation, nearly 120,000 new members signed up, and bad debts at Portland hospitals dropped 16%.[1]
The plan’s costs increased from $1.33 billion in 1993-1995 to $2.36 billion in 1999-2001.[1] Significant cuts were made to the Oregon Health Plan’s budget in 2003.[5]
New enrollment in the program were closed from mid-2004[6] until early 2008, when a lottery-based system was introduced. Tens of thousands of Oregonians signed up, competing for 3,000 new spots in the plan.[7][8]
The Oregon Health Plan was expanded to cover 80,000 uninsured children through legislation that passed in 2009. [9] The program has enrolled 38,000 additional children through February, 2010. [10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Health_Plan

Its not perfect it just needs more cash

McAdams (on Rachel) thinks that Alaska should have a rep in D.C. who looks after Alaska. Does he think he can bring home more pork than Murkowski did? If not, what’s his Plan B?

LOL If I could embed Tweety’s “Ha!” I would!
At her first refrain of “rah rah sis boom bah” I had the same reaction.

But, to be fair, after I cooled down a bit, I decided that she is serving an important role. I am so damn hot about so many disappointments, that to have a different perspective from somebody I generally respect (though don’t always agree with) is a good thing overall. And I think she’s got a good sense of humor. I can handle some cheerleading as long as she’s also pointing out Simpson.

I was more appalled at Trumka (sp?) on KO. It was like he had just finished staring at a spinning spiral disc while hearing Telly Savalas’ voice in the background saying things like “You love being a fuktard”.
After “The Blanche Lincoln Incident” and the fire he showed at that time, tonight he seemed like a wiggly puppy when Daddy gets home.

I’ve had a lot going on here. Still do. But I’ve stopped in to read FDL and have signed petitions and made contributions when I could.

FDL is the first place I go on the web!

Anyone who thinks that forcing Americans to buy health insurance under threat of IRS enforcement is a good idea has their head in the clouds. Americans dont liked to be forced to do anything and Obama and the dems made a huge mistake by adding a mandated insurance policy in their bill. You think the dems have prblms now, wait until the IRS starts penalizing people for not making their AETNA payments. The shit is going to hit the fan and Obama, the dems in congress, and the progressive pundits who allowed their adoration for Obama to outweigh their common sense are all to blame. Those of us who protested this awful bill were called names like childish and immature bcz we dared to protest against Obama’s wishes. The bill was horrible and the mandate is going to come back and bite the democratic party in the ass. Unfortunately, the person who wanted this bill and signed it wont have to deal with the backlash bcz he is going to be sent back to Hyde Park in 2013.

Didn’t see Trumpka. (Came inside about a half hour ago.) But it is my impression that unions have been completely castrated. They have no more influence on the Ds, and so their leaders are sucking up to O to see what last little scraps they may be able to gather up.

Last I read (before final bill was passed so my info might be dated), IRS issued statement that they had no intention of enforcing mandate. Also seem to remember that even if they did, penalties are much smaller than actually buying worthless ‘insurance.’ So many people will just ignore it. Of course, a nation of scofflaws is hardly a productive development, but neither are much larger issues that have developed in the U.S. in the last several decades, including much larger ones, like debt & war.

I was busy working on a farm for a few months I got tons of material to write about but I didn’t have the time or energy to be here.

“Wyden’s modest attempt to back away from the individual mandate probably is good politics. It also shows his willingness to listen to the will of the voters.”

I would stick with the former assumption. I think it’s just a little bit too serendipitous that guys like Wyden and Howard Dean who all supported the individual mandate without the public option are now, with midterm elections around the corner, either distancing themselves from the mandate, or in the case of Dean, attempting to reassure people that the mandate will be removed by 2014.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/06/dean-individual-mandate-w_n_673218.html

eCHAN at 35 if thats so then the plan fails Ron is safe but the Red Tea Bagger states will see huge amounts of non payers…heck who am I kidding its a depression nobody will pay but once Wallstreet figures that out healthcare drug and insurance stocks tank.
Without insurance company dollars to invest the big banks tank. Nobody on Wallstreet has seen this yet.

Doesn’t matter if stocks sink. CEOs’ income in those corps keeps skyrocketing. You need to get your priorities straight. /s

Will Obama risk his Presidency trying to force tax payers to pay before the election? Will the GOP Presidential candidates do WallStreet a solid and not bring up this issue in the election campaign?
The Tea Baggers hate this plan I doubt they will pay and many people just can’t pay. WallStreet is screwed Banks and financial institutions are the only things that are propping up WallStreet.
If Insurance companies can’t produce the cash they expected to get from the Obama Healthcare plan then the banks that would have invested that cash also tank.

Parasites eating the host until they kill it I wonder what percent of empires have collapsed because the elite ate all the seed corn.

Ever since the unions purged the socialists and communists they’ve been in decline as has the working and middle class. How ironic that the communists may well have been the ones that could have saved the middle class. Today’s unions are toothless and hollow and their members know their leadership will sell them out at every turn.

I think about 10 states are doing just that.

Plus we get a ripple effect all the banks are not asking for more collateral from companies that bought out other companies using their stock as collateral for bank loans. But if the banks are about to go under they either ask those companies for more collateral since their stock price has gone down since the bank bailout forcing those companies to lose ownership of their companies or the banks go under.
Of Course Obama could bailout the banks with Social Security money:(

I’m pretty sure the bill itself doesn’t have any teeth in it to force anyone to buy insurance. It is all bluff.(I think)

As I said, I am pretty sure I read where the IRS will not be coming after anyone. Wish I could remember where I saw that.

Maybe you read it the same place that said Obama supported the public option.

Well, if a public plan had been part of the law, an individual mandate would have made perfect sense and would be defensible in the context of the health care crisis. Without a public plan, it’s a strong-arm pitch for private insurance monopolies. That’s something we could afford to repeat every time this issue comes up – that insurance companies were made exempt from anti-trust provisions through an indefinite extension of a temporary hold from the 1930s.

Of course, I’m of the opinion that this demonstrates exactly why we need single-payer – because unlike countries where health care is considered the right of a citizen, we have allowed the private insurance industry to do whatever it wants for so long, and its big names to become so bloated and monopolistic, that I honestly do not believe that we would ever be able to establish a healthy public-private hybrid in our market on the model of France or other success stories in universal health care.

A ‘public option’ might have quickly turned into a high-risk, high-poverty dumping ground for those private insurers were unwilling to cover; with their own asses covered, the private sector would have become even more intolerable in their approval and denial process. That, I think, would have likely led to an outcry from doctors and patients that would have forced total government overhaul of the private industry and broken its control over the market. That is guaranteed to happen anyway, barring the collapse of the United States – but the Democrats just rubber-stamped a series of (needed) reforms with “DO NOT ADDRESS REAL PROBLEM UNTIL DOOMSDAY”.

We would have had our foot in the door, so to speak, with a public option; after just a few years of super-expensive, super-profitable private towers vs. risky-but-cost-efficient public trenches, single-payer would migrate in the media chatter from Hippie Nonsense to David Broder Moderation. Instead, without a public option to compare and a new, gigantic population of public-option clients and their doctors, the media have a renewed pass to ignore the issue of Americans without health care. Once a system is in place to defend and reform, suddenly, “the uninsured” would become “public plan recipients” – a Washington-approved constituency of voters, rather than a nebulous and degrading concept to be bandied about with academic abandon.

That’s a great idea. When will these guys open their eyes?

The bill authorizes the IRS to hire quite a few new agents. If you don’t pay your tax, they will come after you just like anyone for any other tax. The fine will be a tax. Not a fine.

So, you’re toast if you don’t pay it.

Me thinks so too. Wyden, and Obama have got Cadilac Care the rest of their lives, and big money for profit health care, has us. Only problem is there doesn’t seem to be enough money in circulation to spread ‘democracy’ all over the world, and pay the medical bills to our big money physicians. Obomba wouldn’t even put Public Option on the table or Medicare part E. He’d rather buy V-22 Osprey’s for his buddy Marine Gen. Betray-us. (Who’ll probably run against him in 2012 with the Beav from Wasilla.)

I can’t remember where I saw it, but I could have sworn that I read somewhere that the IRS would deduct the penalty from any refund you had.

Edit: Posted this before I saw cregan@50.

Globalization and the WTO castrated all working people. The Fed and the rich don’t even pretend anymore that it was anything but wage control. Talk to your boss sometimes, they fear government regulations and unions more than bin laden.

Of course, a nation of scofflaws is hardly a productive development, but neither are much larger issues that have developed in the U.S. in the last several decades, including much larger ones, like debt & war.

Especially as our most expensive “war” has also created a nation of scofflaws all its own.

The Democrats have been committing political malpractice for that last two years. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knew the Democrats would pay a heavy political price for the mandate; now, apparently, the Democratic leadership understands it.

The problem is one of timing.

They simply don’t have the time to correct the mistake before the Republicans take over in November. When the Republicans do take control, they won’t be looking to correct the mistake by eliminating the mandate – they will be using the mandate blunder to justify killing the entire HCR act.

And when Obama vetoes those efforts, they will bludgeon him with it during the entire 2012 Presidential election cycle to get a Republican president elected.

The law prohibits the IRS from “coming after” you if you do not pay the extra money due due to not having insurance.

However, the IRS will deduct the unpaid penalty from any refund you have then or in the future.

Ron Wyden is not a progressive – he is to the right of Bill Clinton – and way to the right of Hillary Clinton – indeed he is in the same spot as Obama on the left-right scale, which is to say he is a moderate Republican.

Being for a mandate being a bad political position was noted by everyone on the left – we wrote that a mandate without a public options must be defeated – but Obama and the ins. co’s won that battle. And Obama and the Dems now have the political problem we told them they would have.

Replacing the mandate with Medicare buy in by 2014 seems the only good political solution – but Obama has so pissed off the base that I doubt the Dems will ever have the power to do that. So 2010 will be a Dem disaster and 2012 will be the end of the Obama presidency.

Ron Wyden is not a progressive – he is to the right of Bill Clinton – and way to the right of Hillary Clinton…

Had you said that 24 months ago, I would have suggested therapy.

He is among the biggest disappointments.

Exactly right, the IRS doesn’t need to come after you unless you’re willing to forfeit every tax credit and refund check that is due you in the future, they’ll just deduct what they owe and wait till next year to bleed you some more.

Jon’s probably too young to remember this, but Margaret Thatcher was bounced by her own Conservative cabinet from 10 Downing Street because of her poll tax (or “head tax”) proposal was extraordinarily unpopular. People just have a natural aversion to paying a tax, of a portioned, fixed amount per individual in accordance with the census (as opposed to a percentage of income).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_tax

Mandatory insurance premiums are a poll tax. It’d be far more equitable to fund healthcare through a progressive tax system, the more you earn the more you pay.

So what sort of health care plan is the State of Oregon likely to substitute for the current law? That’s more important than Ron Wyden pushing for their waiver. Especially, if it is something that actually will lower health care costs.

I don’t see Wyden as a single-payer sort of guy. None of the plans he’s supported move in that direction. They mostly move to get employers out of the health benefits business.

Yeah I agree……..Guess she just wants to go back to WH and eat with the master.

Obama’s health insurance mandate will stand out among his many failures. It is an insult AND an injury to every non-billionaire American. Our health care system is an abomination. It doesn’t just drive people into bankruptcy. It kills them. So along comes Obama, makes the system worse, and does a victory lap around your grave.

George Bush ruined his brand by being a total ass hole. Obama has done the same thing. Now that both Parties are despised by the people maybe we will find an alternative. Boycott the legacy parties!

Christ, what a sucker. Wyden supports it, he votes for it, facing an election he spouts some waffle words.

The mandates are coming. This man, like all the others, will do absolutely nothing to stop them. But go ahead, give him some head-lines.

Let’s see, the Democrats refused to listen to “a group of progressives”… If only there had been a political party… Oh, wait…