In the waning days of the debate over health care legislation, the White House’s political team did a fairly good job of convincing Democrats in Congress, Washington reporters, and like-minded writers that the act would somehow get a lot more popular after it was actually signed into law. The latest CNN poll (PDF) shows that is not really happening–opinions about the health care law, in general and specific, are little changed.
Currently, only 40 percent favor the new health care law, while 56 percent oppose it. This represents only a modest improvement over late March, when the law polled at 39 percent in favor, 59 percent opposed. The poll has found that opposition to the legislation from the left has remained effectively unchanged. In March, 13 percent opposed the bill for not being liberal enough, which is identical to the 13 percent who currently dislike the law for the same reason.
Interestingly, for every three people who support the new law, there is one individual who opposed it for not being progressive enough. Of the 53 percent of people you could roughly consider to be center-left, a full 25 percent still oppose the act because it failed at being progressive.
Not only have overall opinions about the law changed little since March, support for several individual components are almost the same now as they were in February. Currently, 59 percent favor preventing insurance companies from dropping people who become ill, while back in February, the poll found 62 percent favored that provision. Fifty-eight percent of Americans today favor a provision to prevent insurers from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions, identical to the number back in February
The heath care fight was one of the longest and most heavily debated legislative battles in decades. It gave people plenty of time to form firm opinions about the law, and, not surprisingly (to me, at least), the opinions didn’t change simply because the bill passed. Democrats hoping time would magically make the law popular are out of luck. Of course, if the law actually started directly doing something for millions of Americans, I could see that moving opinions, but, in their infinite wisdom, Democrats delayed almost all benefits until 2014. Somehow, Democrats convinced themselves helping people with health care during the greatest economic downturn in decades was nowhere near as important as a pretty CBO score.



66 Comments








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
Well, I’ve been waiting for responses to this thread.
May I say, I miss coming here to share what we all are feeling about what’s being shared on the news? I know, things change. But, the way it is now, it’s not conducive to people coming on here and yaking. Not that I’m the boss or anything. Just saying.
The key number is those who oppose it for being too progressive. Those are the opposition to improving the law.
The Democrats best strategy on the healthcare reform law is to get a mandate for improving what people don’t like about it. And that primarily will turn out to be the fact that it really doesn’t deal with cost.
What we know is that when you start working on reducing costs you move in the direction of single-payer or stricter regulation.
In addition there is some evidence that state insurance commissioners want the authority to impose stricter regulation and are going to their respective legislatures. Some more detailed coverage of this would be helpful.
I meant what they are saying right now. I know there are plenty o’ news threads here, but, I hope somebody at FDL hears me.
Good evening all.
Is MJ legal yet?
You’re very funny. Last I heard, you just go to sleep. I think I know what you are saying. Ha.
(I have to go to bed early tonight, in order to get up early tomorrow. Oh, yeah.)
You live in SoCal. Waddya think?
Oh yeah. I’ll try to be there bright-eyed & busy-tailed.
Oh, right, I saw that post. BS. Nobody cares what I think, in my experience. Okay, maybe a few.
I didn’t see your opinion. Did you post it? I really just gave up my reading & came inside to see wassup.
Great. 8 o’clock for you. I’m fixing the coffee pot up tonight and setting the alarm for 4.30. Oy. PS – I love afternoon nappies. Good thing, huh?
No opinion posted. Believe or not, I sometimes am silent. I do lurk….just letting people know. :)
When I did PUAC, I accidentally set my alarm for 7:30 pm (or maybe time was set for wrong side of PM divide and alarm was accurate; who can remember). I still arrived a mere 15 minutes late. I’ll try to keep the pups in gear in case you inadvertantly make an alarm mistake.
That would totally work for me. If not me, You. (I think that might be a good, politically correct mantra.)
Remember when the Democrats raised a big stink over BushCo’s Medicare part D sellout to pharma? Well…….
Seems the only thing that changes when Ds run the show are which whores are going to spread their legs….
The CBO score wasn’t the important thing; the important thing was giving Obama something he could call a “win” while still selling out to Big Pharma and the HIC.
Obama and his team have always been arrogant in the extreme. They’ve always thought that they could pound the left and it would obey anyway like a battered wife. Now they’re all upset because their calculus was all wrong. They thought they could have their cake and eat it, too, but it ain’t worked out that way.
If I may, that changes nothing. For years, in so cal, people have had to live with the idea that the ‘big’ one’ could happen any time. There’s still no time table. It’s not like watching a hurricane develop. If you live in so cal, and I do, you have to prepare and then accept the risk.
I have several bones to pick with your BIL. Last I commented, I found the book he recommended, by Tarik Ramadan, unreadable. Nonetheless, as I promised you, I persisted until I got completely frustrated on 2 issues: (1) What Ramadan describes as Islamic ‘science’ bears NO resemblance to Western science and (2) Ramadan talks about property rights during Mohammad’s era as though they bear ANY resemblance to today’s western property rights. Now, I am no expert in that field, but I do know enough to highly doubt that property rights in 7th C Islam were anything like we think about them today.
I had to put the book down again while I cooled off. When I pick it up again, I may or may not recontact your BIL.
It also gave people plenty of time to assess who was on their side and who was on the side of the industry. I think LOTS of folks got a really sick feeling about the whole debacle — especially Obama’s refusal to state exactly what he wanted. Nobody was fooled.
or NorCal.
How do you prepare for the Big One?
indeed.
Basic emergency supplies and prayer.
You do that. As I said before, I find him highly high tower. I love my sissy and let her follow whatever path she chooses. Like, I have any say about that! Don’t know what to say. They hold on to his beliefs. I continue to search. ???
Prepare your house with supplies. Prepare the contents for the shaking. Be ready to shut off the gas. (I have an earthquake shut-off on the gas already.) Prepare your cars with earthquake kits. etc.
Like this?
The bill isn’t about health care. It’s about health insurance. Big difference.
No need for you to express an opinion or take sides. Just up dating you on my search. I am trying to be honest on my side, although reasonable peeps will certainly disagree with me. In any event, not holding you accountable, just an update.
And an expression of my own frustration. It seems to me that if I understand what Ramadan is writing (open to dispute) he, a much more educated academic than me, should be much more advanced than I am about tying Islam to the way the West thinks about the world. I am a neophyte in this exercise. He is, allegedly, a long-standing bridge. He should be able to show me without my being able to find holes in his argument.
Do. Not. Bring. On. The Earthquakes. Please?
OK. Hope it works for you.
I just want to point out that the Health Insurance Company and Pharmaceutical Welfare and Giveaway Act of 2010 is almost a carbon copy of the Republican alternative to the so called Hillary Care legislation of the early 1990s. That’s all that needs to be said about the pos in my opinion.
I can’t say what other people do. That she follows traditions that are rooted in ancient culture baffles me. At least she’s drinking vitamin water and eating one (1) banana for lunch makes me worry less.
No shell fish.
No pork.
No whatever.
This is now. Not then. But, I don’t go there. She’s a beautiful intelligent woman with her own closets. And, maybe even fewer than mine.
:)
i dead tired…wass up?
Oh, not much. We’re all weird. Hi.
made this today
http://southernfood.about.com/od/picklesrelishes/r/bl90718a.htm
I’ve tried (lightheartedly) to convince such persons that such cultural taboos were important in the days prior to refrigeration but should be relaxed, given access to twenty first century technology.
weird is good
not glenn beck,sharon angle weird?
tcm all day Kate Hepburn
I have no trouble with peeps who follow their own path. Their choice.
My problem is very specifically with a person who alleges to trying to bridge the gap between the Islam and the West. And who is a highly educated person who has lived many years (all his life?) in the west.
Now mind you, I have very ingrained POV. Not particularly pro-West, as you have probably figured out. But very pro-question of authority. And that’s where the twain does not appear to meet.
Anyhoo, let me finish reading the book and then I’ll be in touch.
Works for me. You read. You are better at reading non-whatever-fiction than I.
Thanks for being you. I can’t be anyone but who I am. And, I think the world needs all of us. Not that I’ getting paid to say what I think. *G*
My weirdness cannot relate to their weirdness. Do I need therapy?
But, if his path is to try to bridge that gap, and I don’t get it, who am I to question? I mean, like outloud at family get to gethers. I don’t have the time or energy to do it on my own time either, honestly.
mebbe some mind altering substance,ill prescribe……….g
meant to tell ya…grow catnip,great fot kitties,and humans,my 80 year old neighbor tells me
so in the mood for real French brioche and butter,my late nite snacks,lately flour tortillas and sweet butter,yum
Being originally a native of the East coast, when I was living in San Francisco, I experienced my first ‘minor’ quake. I remember being with friends, some from the East and others native to California…we were all 20 somethings at the time…I vividly remember everybody checking to see that all was alright and then nervously laughing and making jokes…then the Cali folks just casually said: ‘It happens, you get used to it, don’t sweat it…let’s go to the park’…I found that attitude pretty pervasive throughout and figured that was a good way to live with it!
Otherwise what other way is there to handle it?…I don’t think worrying will actually make anyone feel safer! Just an opinion…
gonna go watch kate,………..later
That was before the 1989 quake, right?
Shit, why not go to the park? I’ve lived through some pretty big ones here. What are ya gonna do? Ya gotta live your life. And, keep some supplies around. I have all the camping equip, ya know. Not, like there’s gonna be a flood or a hurricane or a tornado or a twin tower thingy here.
Yes! Mary…I had moved on well before that terrible event. My only son lives in LA and has for the last 4 years and we will on rare occasions talk about such events in sober terms, but not negatively.
Apparently Dem objections to Medicare Part D was that it only screwed people on Medicare and then only if they require expensive meds (donut hole) or decline to enroll at first and incur a penalty for enrolling later.
Fortunately Dems saw the bigger picture, i.e. an opportunity to screw EVERYBODY, plus make the penalty for non-compliance immediate.
Silly Republicans, expecting their corporate masters to settle for chump change…
I think as time goes on just the opposite is happening. People are realizing the so called reform really just cements the present system pretty much in place and isn’t going to lower they’re premiums @ all. I think this disastrous law and the lying and scheming that went into it right in front of everyone went a very long way to possibly permanently damaging this president and the Dems. in general. It revealed the whole lying bunch for what most of them are wholly owned whores of the Fortune 500.
Hey, Friday Niters, I’m hosting tomorrow morning’s PUAC, and we’ll be talking about Change. Change and how we choose to deal with the inevitable.
Just saying, since there was a little lull here.
Hope to see some of you there. And, thanks in advance.
Humbly.
Re: Health care law. My opinion of it would be a lot higher if both my kids (in their 20s) hadn’t lost their health insurance last fall. One graduated college and lost coverage under our plan, and found jobs that offer bupkas. The other quit a job she hated (which had insurance), and went off to find her dream. Finding one’s dream rarely includes employment that offers health insurance.
So far as I can tell, the law doesn’t do anything for either of them.
In the meantime, one had a minor injury, and went to emergency room. After getting a minor fracture set, with free follow up offered by a high-priced physician, she is now several thousand dollars in debt.
She lives in a different state, so even if this fall, when the preliminary stuff kicks in, she can come under the umbrella of our insurance, who knows whether she’ll be eligible for coverage. My insurance company rep can’t or won’t answer that question.
So, what health insurance?
How can Democrats be so clueless as to expect people to jump on this bandwagon when NOTHING is really going to materialize for ANYONE who ACTUALLY needs help?
Yea, they’re weird. During Northridge I had one picture tilt to the right, one glass fell into a bathroom sink, and a mirror that had been propped against a wall fell over. That’s it! The apt right next door, was a mess! They are totally unpredictable.
You hope they don’t come, you know they will, be ready for it, and get on with life! I’m just glad my kids are grown. That was my big fear till they were on their own. I’d be 30 miles away at work, and wouldn’t be able to reach them for days because of destruction and traffic. Glad that’s over.
Had a taste of it during the riot in the 90′s. I worked in Inglewood and lived by the Hollywood Hills. Took me almost 4 hrs to get to my kids school.
The Dems have really shot themselves in the foot with this bill. They catered to corporate interests over the people they were elected to serve. As a result, they’ve delivered up an incomplete bill, that doesn’t go into effect for years!!! Even then NOBODY knows how it will really effect their personal circumstances, how much the costs will be, etc. Not to mention it was revolting watching the process of the bill go through the Senate, and Obama’s weak mealy-mouthed attempt at “leadership”.
A complete sellout to corporations. What’s to discuss regarding such a bitter failure? Millions of Americas will needlessly suffer and die so corporations retain control of our health care through mandated medical insurance. Yeah, we got that ol’ change thing drilled into our hopeful little heads and all we got is this lousy T-shirt. Democrats are DINOs and republicans are reptiles. See any similarities? I thought you would. buy buy buy now.
They don’t get it and they never will. Even if they do cut the Pentagon budget, guess what they want to cut first…
The issue arose when Gates was asked by a reporter when it would be time to control rising health care costs, either through TRICARE premium increases or reducing plan coverage. “Yesterday,” Gates responded…
Gates continued, “There are no sacred cows, and health care cannot be excepted” from cost-control plans, not to lower overall defense budgets but to free up funds for more pressing defense needs.
http://www.standard.net/topics/features/2010/08/18/higher-tricare-premiums-gates-cost-cut-agenda
What’s left out of this is that Tricare costs less than private insurance ($4523 per beneficiary annually versus FEHB’s $9000). Active duty personnel don’t pay premiums, so the Tricare Reserve Select was established a few years ago, the Pentagon wasn’t sure how to set actuarially sound premiums for reservists and their families who opted into DOD’s, oh what’s the term, “public option”. So they looked at FEHB premiums for a comparable plan, BCBS Standard. An unfair comparison it would seem, to the FEHB plan. BCBS Standard has an in-network catastrophic cap of $4000 a year per family ($6000 for out of network). Tricare has a flat $1000 a year catastrophic cap. So much for “cost containment”, after a year, the Pentagon realized that they’d set the premiums too high. As the GAO noted in a 2007 study, The premium for individual coverage under tier 1 was 72 percent higher than the average cost per plan of providing benefits through the program. Similarly, the premium for family coverage under tier 1 was 45 percent higher than the average cost per plan of providing benefits.
In other words, Tricare coverage was far more cost-effective than FEHB coverage. In another 2007 study from GAO, it noted that:
DOD calculated its average annual rate of medical care inflation to be
about 4.6 percent per year from 2001 through 2005… Premium
growth trends in FEHBP, the Kaiser/HRET survey of employer-sponsored
health plans, and CalPERS ranged from 10.4 to 14.4 percent, on average,
per year from 2001 to 2005. The average premium growth rate for the 10
largest FEHBP plans by enrollment–accounting for about three-quarters
of total FEHBP enrollment–was 10.4 percent per year during this
period. The average premium growth rate for surveyed employers was 11.6
percent per year and 14.4 percent per year for CalPERS.
Swell, so Obama bet his presidency on the wrong horse. He could have more effectively reformed healthcare (and defense spending) by following the recommendation of Bush DOD comptroller Dov Zakheim and moved Tricare off budget like Social Security (“If he had his way, the full Tricare program would be viewed as an entitlement and removed from the defense budget”). Oh, and then let every American (and employer) buy into the Tricare Reserve Select plan. Those premium subsidies would have gone a lot farther. Of course since HCR would then no longer be an insurance bailout, I guess that was impossible to even consider.
I keep wanting to say to Gibbs, blaming the ‘professional left’ on the failure of look at “President Obama’s legislative record” is stupid. The reason it isn’t working is that you are asking the people to look at his “Big Wins” without really seeing them yourself. Because if they look what they see is that he has sold out their interest to insurance companies and banks, with lots of help from the rest of the democrats.
Hell, I wrote all my Congress critters, all democratic, against the Health Insurance bailout bill. I gave all my reasons why they should vote against this turkey. My final argument was “All the corporate campaign contributions in the world won’t mean a thing after this Presidential “win” if the people don’t feel like they won. They will remember this every time they have to decide whether to pay the fine or scrimp to pay an insurance premium which still doesn’t get them access to affordable health care, and democrats will be persona non grata until that is fixed.” Hoping that self preservation might kick in.
The so-called wins are minimal, affect too few, and by entrenching the insurance companies hurt too many. If the friggin’ CBO score was what was important, we would have had the medicare or tricare based public option. The reason this thing was put off till 2014 was the very cynical move on the President’s part of pushing it beyond his reelection – nothing more. They know it is a turkey. They thought if they said it was good enough people would buy it, forgetting that they don’t have a huge propaganda machine like the Pubbies.
Pretty much yes to what you said and to add that where are all the reps/sens. that were going to keep pushing for a public option and who is taking up the banner for drug re-importation.
Here comes the first chance for the people to express their opinions on two years of Obama and the sense I get is a lot of folks are disenchanted and have no direction. Punish the corporate shills is my first thought but once again I am not especially attracted to any of the alternatives. I think there is a lack of alternative candidates because people clung to Obama’s lies too long to get going on the primary process and not we are stuck in another round of lesser of two evils.
There is a green candidate in New York who is talking about not allowing an ongoing refunding of a securities tax that really just makes another 16 billion in corporate welfare to banksters. That’s a real issue but of course is not getting any love in the mainstream.
Largely, the same guys who pooched us on health care have been doing it everywhere else too–war, economy, civil rights, environment… The most rapid decline in respect I have had for president Obama came recently upon seeing the photo op photo of him swimming in the Gulf of Mexico with his daughter. The real scientists say the government is lying about the oil plumes in the gulf and Obama takes his daughter swimming there and says eat the shrimp. I suppose its a good thing so many Americans are severely information challenged because otherwise that kind of BS would really take a beating.
It
Obama is so used to having things handed to him his entire life, he has no idea how to actually fight for something.
“The heath care fight was one of the longest and most heavily debated legislative battles in decades”.
All that was just a show for the rubes. The real deal was done in the back room. The goal was to further enrich the health insurance companies and the drug companies and to institutionalize their crimes. Mission accomplished. Up next? Social Security.
According to recent news reports, businesses’ will require their employees to pay more for their insurance beginning early next year. Recently, my union health care trust has raised deductibles across the board beginning Oct. 1, 2010. Thus requiring me to reach the new deductible before my benefits resume in 2010. As costs continue to rise, more Americans will be opposed to the so called health care reform.
The failure to contain cost will doom health care. This is yet another nail in the coffin of the middle class. The cost of living goes up while wages, assets and employment continue moving down.
I think having what passed pass is much better than nothing passing at all. But, if I took part in this survey, I would say I opposed the bill for not being progressive enough. Well, I wouldn’t say “progressive,” as quality health care shouldn’t be a right or left issue, but I’d say, “expansive” or something along those lines. The point I’m getting at is, if you asked those 25% of center-left people if they’d rather have nothing over the reform bill that DID pass, I’d wager a bet well over 75% of them would be very similar to me and choose something over nothing at all.
what if this ‘something’ will wind up costing you more?
Good point, and since ‘something’ didn’t begin till 2014 anyway, we had plenty of time to get HCR right and and start it up sooner than one month before the Sochi Olympic Games.
http://sochi2014.com/
The HCR Bill sure helped me form an opinion. I will do everything I can to see that EVERY Dem. Senator & the GREAT MAJORITY of House Dems seeking reelection this Nov. is DEFEATED. If Progressives EVER really want to effect change we MUST hold the Dems we elect accountable for what they do in office! Obviously, our incumbent Dems want to make this election about the bad, bad Republicans. They must because what they’ve done is reprehensible. If Progressives fall for this tripe & rote for Dem. Incumbents after what they’ve done, Progressives deserve to be abused as we have been.
Sorry, folks, it’s really that simple – either campaign against, fundraise against and actually go to the Polls & vote to oust our Incumbent Dems seeking reelection or smile while you’re swallowing the tripe they’re feeding us. Shame on every one of our Dem. Senators.