Alice Rivlin is the chief wonk appointed by President Obama to the debt commission, and has long supported cutting Social Security benefits as a way to address the country’s financial woes.
Alex Lawson caught up with Rivlin and asked her about her plans right after his famous interview with Alan Simpson when the commission met two weeks ago, and she didn’t want to talk about it.
But it appears Rivlin’s ideas are gaining important support.
A month ago, John Boehner was warning that the commission planned to report its findings after the election, and that their plan could be passed by a lame duck congress with little fear of electoral accountability.
But in an interview with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Boehner is now publicly expressing support for the very same ideas Rivlin proposes. And he wants to use Social Security benefit cuts to fund the wars:
Ensuring there’s enough money to pay for the war will require reforming the country’s entitlement system, Boehner said. He said he’d favor increasing the Social Security retirement age to 70 for people who have at least 20 years until retirement, tying cost-of-living increases to the consumer price index rather than wage inflation and limiting payments to those who need them.
Boehner has a three-point plan here to get money for mo’ war: 1) raise the retirement age to 70, 2) adjust Social Security’s cost of living increases (COLA), and 3) reduce payments to those with higher incomes.
Quelle coincidence. Rivlin and Boehner both support raising the retirement age, “fixing” the COLA, and reducing benefits for those who are “more affluent” (sounds like Alan Simpson’s “Lexus driving retirees in gated communities”) .
In testimony last year before the House Budget Committee (chaired by fellow deficit commission member John Spratt), Alice Rivlin said that “projections of the federal budget show rapidly rising spending over the next several decades attributable to three major entitlement programs; namely, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.” (PDF) Because “rapidly rising debt threaten our credibility as sound fiscal managers,” Rivlin told the committee that:
It will take some combination of several much-discussed marginal changes: raising the retirement age gradually in the future (and then indexing it to longevity), raising the cap on the payroll tax, fixing the COLA, and modifying the indexing of initial benefits so they grow more slowly for more affluent people.
According to the Urban Institute, raising the retirement age would push an estimated 1.5 million senior citizens into poverty.
Rivlin appeared on the notorious CNBC segment where Peterson Institute head David Walker spoke longingly about the return of debtors’ prisons. On that segment, Rivlin reiterated her support for reducing benefits to those with higher incomes.
As Trudy Lieberman notes, it’s unclear what Rivlin meant by changing benefit calculations for upper income people. “Did she mean reducing benefits for the higher earners or means-testing them? That’s what some Social Security supporters fear could destroy the program’s social solidarity, with ramifications for workers now in their thirties, forties, and fifties.”
In a recent interview with US News & World Reports, Rivlin said that Democrats voted against empaneling the deficit commission because they were “rightly” afraid that the commission would “recommend cuts in Social Security or Medicare,” while Republicans did so because they feared tax increases. “In fact, we can’t get out of this problem without doing both spending cuts — especially slowing the growth of entitlements — and tax increases,” she said. President Obama subsequently created the commission by executive order.
Of the 18 members on the commission, 14 are “deficit hawks” and the magic number needed to pass any recommendation is 14. Even non-hawk Dick Durbin recently said that “the bleeding-heart liberals… have to…make real sacrifices to strengthen our nation.”
It goes well beyond “ironic” that defense contractor David M. Cote, CEO of Honeywell, is on the deficit commission that is tasked with addressing the future of Social Security. As Robert Kuttner has noted, “the argument that Social Security is adding to the federal deficit is a bum rap.” In 1983 the retirement age was raised from 65 to 67, a 13% benefit cut. It was done expressly so that Social Security would stockpile a surplus that would pre-fund the additional cost of the baby boomers. But as Kuttner says, “George W. Bush pilfered that surplus for his wars and his tax cuts for the rich.”
So, funding wars on the backs of senior citizens is nothing new. But raising the retirement age to 70 would be another 20% benefit cut. If you’re in your 40s or 50s right now, it is worth noting that they’re already looking to blow your money on defense.
That Boehner would eventually find common ground with Pete Peterson-funded wonks like Rivlin (who appeared in Peterson’s IOUSA) is no surprise. It should concern everyone who cares about the preservation of Social Security, however, that Boehner is making noise about his support for the same ideas the debt commission is considering. It means that when the commission finally issues its report on December 1, the Republican support necessary for passage could be there.
House Democratic whip James Clyburn met with the commission recently. He said that he worked closely with Nancy Pelosi to choose members from the House. Unsurprisingly, he too expressed support for both raising the retirement age and means testing, recycling George Bush’s debunked claim about “17 workers for every retiree.” Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Joe Biden have all promised that the commission’s recommendations will be put to a vote.
There are 178 Republicans in the House, and 218 votes are needed for passage. Between the 18 Democrats who are retiring and the 53 members of the Blue Dog Caucus, they should have little trouble putting together the necessary votes without ever having to tap Democrats who would catch hell from within their districts if they vote for it. Even non-Blue Dogs like New Dem Jim Himes are echoing Petersen’s rhetoric about Social Securitiy’s “massive unfunded liabilities.” And the commission is packed with Senate firepower to garner sufficient support on the Democratic side of the aisle, from Conrad (Budget Chair) to Baucus (Finance Chair) to Durbin (Majority Whip).
Boehner will have considerable influence in what the commission recommends in exchange for delivering Republican votes. If he wants to take the money Alice Rivlin saves by putting 1.5 million seniors into poverty and give the money to Honeywell for more bombs, he’s got a lot of leverage to do so.




90 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
I know that we’re supposed to look forward, not backward, but here is a quote (emphasis added) from the Greenspan Commission report of 1983, used as justification for the higher withholding rates:
Once again, the new generation of pols will have to re-learn a basic lesson of any kind of government-based-issued benefits – if there is a means test, it will be seen as “welfare” and the middle class will opposeit, and eventually kill it. (See 1990′s “welfare reform”)
Crollary, if even middle=class folks are eligible for the benefit (especially if they perceive that they have contributed to the benefit), they will fight to the death to preserve it. (See, every effort so far to cut SS)
Yes. I bet if you quoted the surrounding elements from which that quote came, you would find the points I made cited as reasons for the conclusion. In 1983 there were still people who understood those principles.
Just like the new means tested health care law.
Yep. I am afraid that as citizens find out more about that law, they will oppose it more, and that will be one reason. Of course there are so many bad things about that one, it probably won’t be the biggie.
But I do believe the fact that everyone gets Social Security is the bedrock reason why it has had such strong support. If it were only for poor people….fugeddaboutit.
Here we go again. So the dems are preparing to fuck us again.
So would eliminating the 100K cap on taxing for benefits, and ending the trillion dollar wars fix the problems?
That would make a great question for Greenspan on the part of some enterprising journalist.
Yes, and allowing for Medicare drug price negotiation, prescription reimportation, and a host of other cost-cutting methods would take care of the so-called “Medicare” problem, which is really just a no-bid contract problem.
But, we’ll throw old people out in the streets before we’ll stop the ability of pharmaceutical companies to demand (and get) whatever price they want for their product.
When they say cut social security what kind of percentages are we talking about?
or is it just raising the age level?
Well, they pretty much can’t cut it completely as they’d then lose the revenue they continue to bleed out for the general fund.
But I’d take a WAG that the push would be to cut up to 25% so they can claim that by cutting benefits to what they would be if nothing is done at all if things remain as they are, that they will have “saved” SS for all generations to come.
Wonder if that will apply to widow’s benefits. I am only sixty but I get that from my first husband. I am scared that they may do away with that for some reason.
Wow, Boehner said that out loud, in public?
It seems that on entitlement “reform,” Boehner is just like a neoliberal, except more honest.
Maybe we can start cat food commission housing. We can all huddle together in studio apartments with the lights off. Oh well, we would be saving the planet a little faster that way. Always look on the bright side of life.
He is a neoliberal. Nobody in Congress, or the WH, will label themselves neoliberal but if one advocates and/or makes policy to further the neoliberal agenda labels are irrelevant. Many in Congress and the WH would like nothing better than a partnership with the corporations, the classic definition of fascism a la Mussolini, who said it was more properly called corporatism.
Unfortunately, I can see them cutting Widow’s benefits before they cut child survivor. But I can also see them cutting the disability benefits as well.
The Widow’s benefits cut rationale would be that most widows now work and would have benefits under their own name
If they do not wish to undermine SS’s “fundamental structure” they should not be talking about “unfunded liabilities” – the 1940 GOP settled the question when they decided the system was not to be a funded system because that was Socialism by the backdoor – the SS Trust owning much of America via its fund for future liabilities.
So if unfunded liabilities is a con-job in a system that per Myers “Social Security” was never to have more than 12 months benefits in the Trust – never to try to be more funded that that level, why is Obama having his folks screaming about it? This is a system that we are supposed to change the taxing process – and only the taxing process – when funds are needed. So why no discussion of NO WAGE CAP?
As with Dems’ f-u to the unemployed, what strikes me is their apparent belief that people won’t notice that they “found” the $$$ for Wall Street. I transcribed a portion of the Dean Baker below:
Well, let’s not lose sight of the fact that this is Obama’s baby.
ALL the social programs cuts will go to the wars.
Lookit:
Pipeline-Istan: Everything You Need to Know About Oil, Gas, Russia, China, Iran, Afghanistan and Obama
It’s all there minus the “War on Terror”…amazing article. this is also why the G-20 is so anxious to punk their citizenry; they may not want to send troops ( let the US take the casualties) but they sure want that Black/Blue gold in them thar hills
“Once again, the new generation of pols will have to re-learn a basic lesson of any kind of government-based-issued benefits – if there is a means test, it will be seen as “welfare” and the middle class will oppose it, and eventually kill it. (See 1990’s “welfare reform”)
Corollary, if even middle=class folks are eligible for the benefit (especially if they perceive that they have contributed to the benefit), they will fight to the death to preserve it. (See, every effort so far to cut SS)”
Spot on comment
Obama is a tool of corporate used to stop the scary Hillary – and the left fell for the con. Now he is ready to screw all that supported him – one by one. And folks wonder why many on the left stayed home for the Scott Brown Mass Senate election – and will stay home for future elections.
blah. I never should have asked.
I am really disappointed. I used to have quite a bit of respect for Rivlin. Guess she decided to cash in before she, herself, has to retire.
Disability will go first, after all, what do the disabled bring to the economy. Kill them off first, then go after the old.
But keep the poor wimmin pumping our babies for the empire
Perhaps if this blatent attempt at robbing the populace continues toward passage the currently comatose Sleeping Giant will finally awaken.
I have seen very little on Pete Peterson’s Saturday gab fests. Has anyone read any good articles they could direct me to about how the meetings went?
I always assume they consider that we’re idiots so they’ll use whatever phony excuses they can make up.
A lot of Gen X doesn’t think Social Security will be there for them, even though they think it should be.
I think this is a result of skillful propaganda dating to the Greenspan social security commission. Propaganda that continues to this day with the America Speaks events, etc.
Interesting hand wringing but where is the thought that for most all social security benefits will pay for in the next ten years is part of the cost of medical insurance. Recent quote I received for family of four in Massachusetts is $2600 a month which exceeds the maximum payment one can receive at age 66
Raising the normal retirement age is a benefit cut of 20% because you early retire at 62 seven years early if the age is 69, rather than 5 years early if Reagan’s 67 stays the retirement age. The extra two years early means a larger early retirement reduction of about 20% at age 62.
Means testing means the end of the program – welfare is what we cut – or in Reagan’s case “we convert to block grants to the states so they can lower state taxes”.
COLA change is mis-titled since they do not mean a change to post retirement cola increase calculation – not a big deal – - – what they mean is the salary history increases for past years to make them equivalent to current year salary is changed. Using the wage index as is now done means standard of living gains are passed on into the pension system. Using Cost of living instead of wage index is way to give a large cut to the calculated benefit so that you move much further down the economic ladder once retired.
I suspect that one of the reasons that Obama opposed single-payer and the public option is that those would have reduced the cost of medical care, thus eliminating the need to repeal the New Deal and the Great Society. No crisis, no need for change.
We do not need the standing army. Time to learn to get along. Decommission the Pentagon and raise taxes on the rich. There has to be a rethink about what’s important and what people can do besides tote a gun and blow up wedding parties.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-hickey/in-deficit-town-meetings_b_627030.html
David Dayen had posts on it here, I think under the ‘news’ button.
Or just more ways to funnel money to the rich.
True – those getting disability come off the same benefit calculation as those that retire. After two years you get Medicare but until then your Medical cost for insurance will exceed you disability payment.
I suspect that also. since the money’s already gone……
Given that most of us are going to be below poverty level under the catfood commission’s plan, even if we work to their theoretical retirement age of 70, I think that Congress’s pension and health plan should be adjusted to match SS and Medicare’s payouts. (As in, Congresscritters can’t collect their full pension until they reach the same age where we can, for openers.)
They already cut disability benefits, stealthily.
Actuarial tables show how many will be disabled in a given population. In the Reagan era, it was decided to toss a lot of the disabled off the rolls. I, myself, was “healed” with the stroke of an administrative law Judge’s pen. So – even if you legitimately qualify – you aren’t likely to get disability, especially in certain parts of the country, unless you have a pretty dramatic disability that would look embarrassing on the six o:clock news.
Like the first artificial heart recipient, who when called by then President Ronald Reagan asked him why the hell HE couldn’t get his disability! He was attached to a machine about 4′ tall and 6′ long at the time.
If they do nothing, when the trust fund runs out the outgo is cut 25% so as to match the tax revenue coming in that year.
This is not about a 25% benefit cut.
This is about never taxing the rich so that they pay back the bonds that had to be issued to fund the tax cut for the rich – they want the SS Trust Fund bonds to never be cashed in to pay for benefits – the Reagan “deal” about Boomers paying for their retirement was a con to simply raise taxes without hitting the rich. Pete is protecting his class – and has bought Obama as a willing worker in that effort.
Good thing I would have looked bad on TEEVEE; like a pretzel ( genetic neurological disorder)My legal aid attorney told me that after me they rejected 30 postulants no matter what was wrong with them
So sulking got Scott Brown elected? Guess he’s doing just what they wanted. It’s such a brilliant election strategy.
Yeah, but the rich like their SS too!
True – I did a lot of pro bono filing of disability claim appeals back then – the SS claim approvers (the insurance companies who bid on the two year administration contracts) were told to deny everything that they could and to delay the rest. You could get past them if you used standard words to describe the case for benefits – and included why the “any job in the economy” meant a full time job and not a one hour a week call center job from your bed while you were in pain. Reagan was a bastard with no heart – killed mental health in Cali after agreeing to funding of group homes and then not funding them despite his closing the older institutions, and then did the same in the Federal Gov in the Aug 1981 budget bill that killed funding for Carters Mental health programs and instead gave the money to the states as “block grants” – resulting folks stepping over the frozen bodies of the dead mentally ill in DC at 1701 Penn where I worked as St Elizabeths was emptied so as to match the new lack of funding.
a 2k per month check gets lost in the mail if you are rich – while the !50 k tax that would be paid if no wage cap gets noticed.
the rich need a proposal of raise the wage cap with no additional benefits for the rich – a means test – so that killing the wage cap increase is easy because it is so “unfair”.
YEP. I knew a womon who owned the majority of the Lee Jeans company and she lived on her Social Security. I mean she was my friend; left me a nice chunk of change when she died. but I bet she wouldn’t be too happy with this development.
How is the money gone – a bond is as solid as it gets – unless China is to be stiffed on the bonds they own, the SS Trust bonds – which are claims on future tax revenue – must be honored.
Indeed not honoring that claim on future tax revenue is what Obama and Pete are all about.
Yes. This is why they say that SS will “not be able to pay benefits” rather than the Treasury will default on the bonds.
“lived on her SS” but owned Lee Jeans????
So she was nuts and found a way to put her money in your hands while she picked up 2 k a month?
Yeah – right
Congress pretends they have a claim on future tax revenues – the same idea as in SS – but then does not go nuts about an “unfunded liability” that disappears with a small tax change. Most gov employees get roughly the same “tax” and same “benefit” as under SS, but Congress folks are special because time in job is so uncertain – it takes little to qualify for a good sized – monster sized compared to SS – pension.
Mary…
If you live on SS and really need your Medicare to survive, this move is blatantly a way to get rid of the folks who are desperately trying to do their best to hang on…and that is exactly the point…they do not want anyone to hang on, they want us DEAD!
…so they can take the money which is OUR money, enrich themselves, and spend it on the 2 wars so they can satisfy their bloodlust to kill other innocent people who are just hanging on! The preciousness of life and the incumbent morality that accompanies it is lost on these degenerate people who promote and institute these policies!
We should call it what it is: SICK and DEPRAVED! These bastards need an ass kickin, but I have no idea how, who, and when it can be done…voting certainly has not accomplished the whipping these folks genuinely deserve!
I agree – the 2017 (or 2016) date is such a con. It just means that the Trust cashes out a few bonds that year – forcing more bond sales to China that year or a tax increase on the rich. And both of those are bad (China bond holdings have a National Security Conference this week, and we know how a tax increase on the rich is viewed by Obama as he tries to get more GOP into Congress so he can point to them as the reason there is no tax increase on the rich. Clinton getting his tax increase seems such an amazing accomplishment in retrospect.
They’ll never talk about raising the wage cap unless severe pressure (I don’t know how; wish I did) is brought to bear. There is no issue with Soc Sec; if there IS, then raise or abolish the wage cap and it’s fixed.
This is bogus, and I hope that citizens everywhere fight against it. It’s not “socialism” bc we, the people, pay into it and deserve to get it back.
That said, I know far too many people, from all ages and political persuasions, who have drunk the Kool Aid that Soc Sec is unsustainable and that it just “has” to go away. It’s a question of educating people, which I hope can be done before anything too nasty happens.
You know that if the “means test” the pay out, only the middle and lower class people will suffer because of it. It won’t hurt the rich somehow; that’s the way it always is.
But citizens really need to learn that this is all bogus and yet another way for the uber rich to rip off the rest of us.
When this whole thing about stealing SocSec finally gets the airplay in TradMed, it’s going to get wild in the country.
I mean WILD. People won’t stand for it.
I agree. Anyone who is on social security or has parents or has grandparents on it is going to be PISSED. But “they” don’t give a shit. How many people wanted the public option? How many people wanted hope and change? How many think more should be in about the BP volcano? We don’t matter.
How long will it take before “they” start curtailing the right to vote?
I hope you’re right, but unfortunately, I’ve known far too many people who seem willing to accept this fiction as truth. I’ve heard far too many people say to me: well, I’ve just figured that there never will be Soc Sec for me. They seem quite happy to be resigned to that “fate” without fighting for it or questioning it. So…. not so sure citizens will go “wild,” but I hope so. I will join in.
My rightwing fundie family are all very very very willing for my dad to lose his soc sec. I kid you not. They also slavishly worship the Snowbilly Grifter.
Just drawing that to your attention. My family is (sadly) not unique. A lot of these C Street “Family” churches are really pumping out the meme that everyone, including grandma and granddad, just need to “take care of themselves” because it’s the “American way.” Not exaggerating. Be forewarned.
Kelly
I really believe that the People have to wake the hell up FIRST, and then perhaps we can talk about gettin WILD, but I would prefer meaningful directions for the people to wrest the power away from the corp/elitists and put it back in their own hands. That will not be accomplished without angst and pain in large measure!
No, she was the “major stockholder” not that she “owned ” the company.
How DO you thin k the rich get and stay rich? they pinch pennies like a M*therf*cker, that’s how.
Stingiest people I’ve ever known, the well off.
and she was NOT “nuts”. Maybe [Edited by Moderator. Let's not insult or call names of other commenters]………..
Mary
I think the push to curtailing the right to vote will be prefaced by getting the FCC to kill the freedom of open exchange on the internet, followed by having community groups escalate the spying on their neighbors, having the Citizens Supreme Court ruling result in a flood of corporate political kabuki unparalleled in our lifetime…and then finally ‘curtailing the right to vote’.
Look at the track record so far…pretty damn convincing I would say! Sadly!
A lot of super wealthy (and somewhat less wealthy) do a lot of fancy footwork with their money, so that it looks like they no longer have very much. Guess it goes into trust funds and/or homes and other properties are signed over to relatives and such.
And then a lot of these super wealthy types who spent all of their lives screaming about the evils of socialism, and the evils of benefits for citizens, and the evils of poor people who ripped them off… these self-same filthy rich jerks turn around and milk the system for all it’s worth. And that is definitely true.
I doubt that most wealthy folks would “live” solely on Soc Sec, but they hide their money and set up wealth transfers. God forbid any of it should be taxed, but they will also milk the system for all they can (which would be ok if they had paid into it fairly, but they don’t).
@All – it IS the wake up call, and everybody I talk to about this first looks at me like I’m a 3-headed alien. They don’t believe such a thing could happen.
Then I tell them “google SocSec and” :
Firedoglake
americaspeaks
National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform
Pete Peterson
And I send them that notorious link of Obama’s PRE-INAUGURATION:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/01/obama-calls-for.html
Then, they freak out.
Kelly
I hear ya! I hope the hell they freak out and then do something meaningful and directive to get these asswad elitist/corp degenerates OFF our backs!
Why get upset over Boehner? We know he’s snake. We should be directing all our rage toward Obama. Who’s side is he on?
Obama has never been on the side of citizens. Obama is only a shill for the corporations. Agree that this isn’t as much about Boehner, but still, Tan-Man’s doing his best to shill this as well. Doesn’t hurt to call him out, too.
All I’ve got to say is that this womon worked hard all her life. she taught school until she was 80. she paid her taxes. she might have been stingy with herself, but she was very generous to her friends. she was my friend. She saved my life when I got disabled. and I’m not willing to hear some pipsqueak put her down because of misunderstanding the system.
If there were means testing, she probably wouldn’t have gotten SS. But she earned every penny of it.
I shouldn’t have brought it up…now I’m upset.
So, does that mean the relatives all agree that it’s their responsibility to share support and medical care for your dad when his SS is gone?
(Afraid I know the answer to that one)
There is the crux of it, and the reason SS has survived this long. My mother, who lives largely on investments and my dad’s smallish pension, also gets SS on her own account. She worked, she earned it, and she would be pissed off if she were means-tested out of receiving it. We’ve had that conversation. And she and her friends just don’t hear anyone pointing out that they’ve already received multiple times the amount they contributed in their relatively brief working years (the generation that “retired” to the home after the War, y’know).
Oh yes that’s what it means. You got it. Of course, if that happened, then you would hear the whining and complaining wherever you live.
My dad was a good provider and lucked out with his investments, which are still – at the moment – quite good. As he’s over 90, it’s hard to say how much longer he has. So I believe that my idiotic family is just counting on the fact that he won’t be around that much longer. It’s easy to “talk big” when you have your butt covered (more or less). I don’t know how they’d feel if Dad had years to go; had loads of medical problems; required a lot of care and didn’t have much money. Know what I mean??
My experience with the conservatives that I know is that they TALK one way but when push comes to shove, they’re the first ones in line for the hand out.
But their churches are definitely preaching this. That is for sure.
All annuity pensions work the same way. I am in the CalPers pension system, and the trainers are pretty up front about exactly how long it will take for individuals to go through the money that they (and their employer) put into CalPers.
What CalPers banks on is:
1. Earning interest/income from the pooled money from all those contributing to the pension system
2. Sadly but truthfully a certain percentage of retirees will die before they get back what they put in.
There’s all kinds of calculations that go into it, but the same deal happens with Soc Sec. Citizens contribute a finite amount, and some citizens collect a whole lot more than they put in. But – at least in theory – the trust fund *should* be earning interest/income, plus a certain percentage of retirees will die before they collect all that is owed to them.
So that’s typical. Trying now to means-test Soc Sec is a fraud.
Maybe we could do some kind of “Health Care Reform” to hold down the costs of health insurance./s
If Obama W. had done his job on HCR we would not need to gut SS.
Or, maybe that is why he didn’t…
HCR has nothing to do with the fiction about why we need to “gutt” Soc Sec. There is no connection, albeit “real” HCR is required.
The only thing going on with Soc Sec is that rich people want to steal it.
Rayne is upstairs!
Parenthood, Tough Questions and Firedoglake
There’s a front page story up at Big Orange right now, claiming Boehner wants to cut SS, and what an electoral and PR boon that will be for Dems. I read through the early comments, hoping for evidence that a few koslings might have tumbled to the notion that their dear leader POTUS is the main driver here. Nothing of the sort. They totally fail to see that the deficit commission is Obama’s baby.
I know you are correct about at least some of the rich – and if they choose to live on 2k a month I have no problem with that – sorry about saying the lady was nuts or dis-believing that anyone would choose to live on 2k – but good grief – how did she pay utilities or real estate taxes or cable – indeed having money and living poor is not my goal at least – but then I do not have the option :-)
I agree – and your explanation was clear
“insurance” is the coming to together of many so a promise can be made to those who have a problem that nott all will have – the promise being to mitigate the problem with money
fire insurance on the house, car insurance for the accident, and in pensions – an assurance you will not outlive income for those that turn out to be long lived. Obviously those that have no fire in there house – if they knew in advance that this would be the outcome – would be better off if the had not joined the group and paid the “dues” (premium). And those that die before retirement would be better off if they had never paid any SS tax (the equivalent of the premium). But we never know the future.
Again – I am happy to hear that she helped you
but what has this to do with Social Security benefit cuts, wage cap, or means testing, or changing benefit calculation indexing? Your initial post sounded like you thought means testing was needed because a rich relative lived on SS rather than on their riches. The point of avoiding the label “welfare” that means testing would bring, and the subsequent destruction of yet another “welfare” program, was the prior discussion. I am sorry that your post confused me as to the point you were making.
Eli is upstairs!
Republican Multiple Choice
Obama and his lying brain trust will twist things around to make people believe he’s just trying to save SS not destroy it. The Obamabots will go along with their own executions if he says it’s good for their health.
Bravo, the Commission meets June 30.
The America Speaks, Peter Peterson 400 million dollar funded, Alice Rivlin promoting National Town meeting had 7 of 34 options for Social Security pay down the general deficit, including a regressive payroll tax increase . All this to pay down that general deficit caused by the the lack of progressive taxation.
The top quintile in US income are laughing all the way to the bank on this. 24 years of tax breaks paid for by 2.5 Trillion of Social Security payroll taxes, another 1.8 Trillion in Medicare and more to come with this Commission.
And if you think there is progressive taxation in the US you are either on drugs or on Big Money propaganda like the majority of the folks at the Town Meeting.
The CBO reports that the top 20 percent have 55.9 percent of pretax revenue and 53.2 percent of after all Federal taxes. in 2007. Their share of the pie shrunk 8 percent after those “progressive” taxes.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11554/AverageFederalTaxRates2007.pdf
This is an excellent, if scary posting, Jane.
Raising the Social Security eligibility age would be grossly unfair. Some persons have jobs which do not take a heavy toll on mind and body, and will indeed have longer, healthier lives. However, persons with high stress jobs – miners, persons doing various kinds of heavy manual labor, some teachers, etc., might not make it to a 70-year old retirement. The less-well off will get socked again.
Besides, our longevity in the U.S. is going down, not up, in part thanks to our rotten medical care “system”.
And….no civilized, sensible, moral person would rob Social Security to pay for killing people. That’s sick.
We have a problem then.
Looks like the only current beneficiary reduction they are thinking about is modifying the yearly COLA/CPI computation. ( I guess if they ignore health care cost increases somehow they can make it smaller.)
The rest of it is shear inter generational warfare to support regressive taxation/future benefit reduction to pay for the high income tax cuts since 1986.
One friend thinks Obama is trying to get the Republicans and lame duck Demos to touch this third rail.
My point was that SOME people aren’t greedy even if they are rich and yes, she had everything she needed. I actually believe now that she didn’t think she deserved so much.
but she was from our grandparents (my parents) generation and really knew what a depression was all about
I just have trouble with black and white thinking and rigid ideologies on either side….if there ARE sides anymore.
A people who have lost power are just bait for predators, and that’s where we find ourselves today.And, I think we all know what’s coming. If we don’t, what the hell are we doing here discussing it?
You know what the Indians called the white man as he slaughtered everything in his path across this nation? Fat takers.
Cutting peoples ssi to pay for the war will be a step towards ending the war. A lame duck congress may vote it in but the president will surely pay a huge political price. At this point I am past the point of worrying about what the politicians will do.
Thanks for the update Jane! Looks like establishment really is gearing up to continue it’s attack on the general welfare.
Glad to see that Jim Himes is on your Radar. He’s my Congressman and a total limousine liberal. On healthcare he was part of the “everything is on the table” crowd (translation, kiss the public option goodbye).
Plenty on the right probably dislike him simply for his elitist, internationalist and banker credentials:
Born in Peru to parents working for the Ford Foundation
Harvard University
Oxford Rhodes scholar
10+ years with Goldman Sachs
But the left should also be wary of Harvard and Goldman Sachs red flags. Our government is loaded with people from Harvard and/or Goldman Sachs. It’s as if Washington DC has been turned into a Harvard-Goldman Frat house. An old boys club which only covers an extrememly narrow sets of life experiences will not serve our country well.
Yes, they will rail against killing Terry Schiavo or a fetus, but widows and spinsters shall deserve to be in the street with Jezebel,and younger women must bear the spawn of their rapists.
Cut Social Security to pay for war? Great strategy to increase suffering, killing and insecurity in the world. And consistent with what’s becoming the 21st century American value system. And I want no part of it.
Compare life expectancy at age 60 in 1940 and 2000. We aren’t living that much longer, just less deaths in childbirth and children who died young.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html
If we totally leave tens of millions of elderly in starvation with nothing to live for and nothing to lose, we may be creating a huge number of terrorists against the rich and their government, seniors who won’t really care if they die or go to prison as punishment for violent rebellion.
Obama will gut Social Security. If any of you are still Democrats you need to be thinking about who will be your nominee for president in 2012.
Rachel Maddow displayed the same blind spot on her show last night. She was talking about John Boehner and how he wants to raise the SS retirement age, and how if we want to stop it we need to vote Democratic in November. Yes, they’ll save us!! She had the nerve to say that Boehner had no idea what he was talking about, as if she did.