selectively defaulting on Treasury bonds issued to the Social Security trust fund

I’ll remember this phrase next time I discuss the subject. It may not be as simple (or simple-minded) as “giant Ponzi scheme” but it’s pretty concise.

Not disengagement, not protest rallies, not strikes — pointed, in-your-face civil disobedience by people committed to the cause works.

That’s what founded this country.

If I read this correctly, you’re calling for civil disobedience.

Name the time and place. I need to get a babysitter.

Obama I think will wait until after the election and try and gain GOP support for this first but agreed chaining ourselves to the WH might work.

That and Boycotts can we boycott BP until they start getting workers air masks and protective gear? That and I want BP to provide jobs for everyone who lost a job at their full pay at their old job cleaning up the mess.
If BP don’t like it we can take away all their oil leases on American soil.
We can take away their gas stations, their oil refineries, and sue in the World court for the entire company.
Unless they play ball now. The Boycott on Glen Beck is working quite well.

Is AARP in the veal pen?

Well, I think it may take more than merely being civilly disobedient. Take the model of Dan Choi in particular – I can’t look at that photo without choking up. He put his person, his integrity, his career in the military on the line to make an effective statement. We didn’t know where he was for a while, were concerned about him after being taken into custody.

Combine that with heckling and embarrassment and it’s a powerful mix.

Direct action works? Who’d a thunk it. Some of us have been saying this for years. It’s time to push ourselves back from the keyboards and onto the streets for some meaningful, non-violent civil disobedience.

Yup. Something the press can’t ignore or blow off the way they do progressive rallies (even as they rush to cover any gathering of three or more members of the Tea Party Nation wing of the GOP).

Yes.

The head of AARP recently gave a power point presentation on Social Security where he said “Seniors are going to have to give a little to get a lot.”

They also funded a massive advertising campaign on health care (Divided we Fail), working with AHIP and the Pharmaceutical reps to make sure they were taken care of in the health care bill.

From the ‘heckled’ link:

DADT protesters repeatedly interrupt Obama speech at Boxer fundraiser; Obama looked pissed

Now we know what it takes to break his cool – and it’s not an opposition heckler calling him a liar on national tv, or even potentially global environmental disaster.

No company in this economy can afford to lose 2 or 3 % of sales easy and if the boycott catches on even more.
BP’s numbers for this quarter in America should be interesting. I bet they use accounting tricks to puff them up though tricks like selling their debt to third part shell corporations like Enron did.

They certainly act like it.

Thanks. I figured they’d be high up on the target list for the VP.

Yes public evidence of complete loss of respect.

AARP membership will soon drop.

When progressives get on TV, they need to introduce the viewing audience to the names Lee Atwater and Frank Luntz. Everybody needs to be familiar with the ruthless tribalism and authoritarianism used by the Right to distort and poison every debate on every topic. When you’re face-to-face with a Lynne Cheney or a Ron Christie, you don’t politely let them roll over you with lies and smears… get in their faces, accuse them of lying and hatemongering, and force them into the defensive position for once. These scum are destroying our country and the corporate media thanks them for it.

Yep. They’re now more interested in selling Medicare supplemental health insurance than being a voice for seniors.

Picking a non-economic wedge issue as an example of what works, smacks of naivete. And, since Jane cannot be accused of that trait, the assessment seems rather odd.

“Seniors are going to have to give a little to get a lot.”

I can’t even imagine the head of AARP being stupid enough to utter such a phrase. Wait. Yes I can. Never mind.

This year I dropped my membership in AARP. I only used it for the discount in traveling but since I don’t travel any more, seemed pointless. Plus I don’t agree with almost anything they do.

How about a march on Washington by the unemployed? Everyone could wave giant pink slips. The day-to-day struggle of getting out of bed day after day, month after month, makes these people heroes in my eyes. Talk about persistence and courage.
There are heroes out there in our own neighborhoods — people whose homes are being foreclosed on, through no fault of their own, teachers and firemen whose jobs are being cut, poor people unable to afford massive hikes to their bus and train fares.
These are the masses “yearning to be free.” Give them a chance and a huge number will join in direct action to protest the theft of their livelihoods by their corporate overlords.

sadly no. they will be busy scaring their members with “the alternative – booga-booga !” strawman

As a gay guy myself, at least there’s that. But with supporting Plantation Blanche (loser in Nov.), he is showing his kiss-ass to the people who fuck him over. We don’t need a Carter or Clinton, we need an FDR/LBJ. Sadly, I thought this man was gonna be different. I should have supported HRC instead of this guy.

Well yes, but there was a lot leading up to that action. Pam, Aravosis and others were fighting the influence of the HRC and their Democratic “allies” in Congress for a long time. They had set the narrative such that the validators who usually come in and “rescue” the White House in those instances were discredited and could not help.

If single payer activists chained themselves to the White House, Bernie Sanders (or some other veal pen operative with liberal street cred) would come running and say what marvelous things his clinics were and how great Obama was for fighting for them. And then Rahm’s online hacks would run to the blogs and say “see, Bernie Sanders is a better progressive than crazy activist X.”

The veal pen is the wall that Obama uses to protect his left flank. He’s unassailable on any given progressive issue as long as it stands.

It’s a scam. They run it all the time.

yep, the lgbt communtity are not whimps like other liberals, who prefer street theater or wasting time on mainstream politicians.. Americablog is my second favorite now. It would be my first favorite if it were designed as a community blog.

Direct action? Damn, I’d best get out and get some new skivvies. Can’t be goin’ to the slammer without skivvies.

Demographics make your prediction highly dubious.

btw, I am as active with time and money as I can be without flying to Washington to get arrested. Wish I could. I am SOOO fucking frustrated with all this bullshit.

The one segment that can still make a public statement and mobilize masses is Labor.

Thanks Jane.

MLK got it right all those years ago and we seem largely to have forgotten it. Peaceful demonstration is the key. The wages of corporatism must be exposed in light of their negative social impacts thereby making them social issues – the same as Gay Rights, Civil Rights, in short, Human Rights.

That we have not yet stormed the beaches of Mississippi and put the lie to Haley Barbour’s bullshit speaks volumes. We need to get out from behind our computers and into the streets.

Jane you are rockin the house sister. Thank you keep it up. You were a huge part of Blanche Lincoln having to stand up and work and lie for those votes. We are right behind you pushing pushing.

Make Lincoln eat her words last night. Lincoln “my vote is not for sale” Let her know we want to see action not words.

got this one on the Diane Rehm show this morning
“Senator Lincoln squeaked out a win. She is going to need the progressive movement this fall to win. We are waiting and watching and dare her to prove that her “vote is not for sale”…because her past votes sure look like they all ready sold to the highest bidder.”

So many of us appreciate your tactful and effective strategies. You made her feel the pressure. Go Jane

I’ll be polishing my cane and shopping for a purple hat.

It will likely get much worse before there is a “Movement.” As the title of the movie said “There Will be Blood.”

I did ream out Hinchey, face-to-face, a couple of Saturdays ago, FWIW. He used to be a good guy, but is now firmly in the VP. Told me I didn’t know what I was talking about (war funding & HCR reform were 2 issues I chose for my limited confrontation time) and it is all W’s fault. So the Ds now are comfortable enough to insult voters who attend a small D meet & greet.

“If single payer activists chained themselves to the White House,”

single payer advocates rallies in D.C. the last several summers numerous times. The MSM ignored them because they were not packing guns and were not chaining themselves to the White House. There were intelligent factual speakers.

Too bad this is what it takes to get the MSM’s attention

AARP also backed Bush’s bogus Medicare prescription drug plan a few years back. I knew the AARP was a joke on Seniors, but their backing such a ludicrous plan caused me to reject what few benefits they offered.

Got me a nice wide brim (5″) straw Planters hat. For winter gonna get a wide brim slouch hat.

It’s the only way.
Wonder how the crowd over at the orange site taking
the insult the WH threw at ‘em last night.

Maybe they will rationalize like everything else,The WH didn’t mean
the orange progressives they were insulting the FDL progressives.

some people never learn.

looking good!

was interesting to watch the attacks in Pam’s FB comments – pretty obvious who the Party operatives were – they would come in waves, barely changing the language of the talking points, or bothering to mix ‘em up, eg, suddenly they were all veterans, then 30 min later they were all of a different background – geesh it was insulting

There aren’t many orange progressives, but a lot of orange neoliberals.

Once the depression hits on the second economic dip, and the appropriate austerity measures are applied, – are labor and the progressive wing going to be fully organized and prepared to finally hit the streets, if not the ramparts?

Great move. There are small cracks in the corporate media, and I include NPR in that category. that can be exploited to get an alternative narrative before the public.

Great lid.

Certainly the who and the what and the where matter, and no one should be under the illusion that a few bold acts of direct political action will make a difference, not least people those who do take action will be mocked most heartily by “progressives.”

All that said, I do think foot-on-pavement (or body in meeting, or body chained to a fence) action is a piece of the puzzle. Many of the big figures in the netroots are objectively anti-march. Markos (I know, I know, but he had a big platform) says he’s opposed to antiwar marches because they attract lefty freaks. Well, when you’re ashamed of radicals, you’ve already lost. Certainly conservatives aren’t ashamed of their radicals.

Maybe I’m projecting because I haven’t been out in streets since the antiwar marches of 2001-02-03 but I find direct protest empowering and ennobling in a way that online activism never is. As for its efficacy, yeah, a simple march doesn’t do it. Imagination needed.

It’s time to begin targeting the MSM. Their duplicity needs to be brought to the consciousness of the public. Most of the public in the U.S. still believes there is an honest 4th Estate. Chip away at their credibility and ultimately their legitimacy.

You have to ask yourself why they issued “special” Treasury Bonds to the Social Security Trust Fund? Why not regular 30 year bonds paying interest? The problem with that is that if they decide to default the entire bond market comes crashing down.

Obama hasn’t been the President we hoped for. He’s just Bill Clinton in black face. I’m sick and tired that the best we can do is a right of center agenda that favors big business.

I believe that it is business as usual and BP will get nothing more than a slap on the wrist and pay a pittence of the cost of the damage they are doing to the planet. Some are already calling it a “natural” diaster. Act of God my as*! It like the financial meltdown, who could have known? Excuses, excuses and the executives keep pocketing millions.

It’s the corp media. They ignore & make fun of everything that is not radical right.

Yes, making Obama uncomfortable probably works better than phone calls or money bombs (although the latter is good too). The heckling at that fundraiser was a welcome development. I don’t understand why we need to be polite to him if he’s not doing his job. That’s what political pressure is.

And maybe also point out that the “righty” spokespeople always feel complelled, as a deliberate and invariable tactic, to speak over, and try to interrupt, whatever the “lefty” spokesman has to say when on lefty time.

It’s so rude, they always do it, and noone ever says, “STFU, you just had your turn. Now it’s my turn. Didn’t your Mamma ever teach you any manners?”

I’m good at heckling. Once did it to John Whitehead when he was head of Goldman Sachs & I was an employee. Was buried in an audience of 2000 and embarrassed the sh*t out of my table, but got a couple of sympathetic boos to join me.

It’s not the issue, it’s the street-action tactic, I think. Geez, I’d hate to think that only gays can scare him.

BTW, enjoyed the “Dead Parrot” skit, as always, but I asked so I’d know what to look for, and even to see if we even disagree about the point you want to make with those maps.

in light of how little coverage progressive action gets in the media –

I have long suggested all of us should drop Dem party affiliation and register as Independent. copies of the paperwork sent/tweeted/faxed to central location – followed up with sending collected paperwork to DNC/WH

magical thinking ?

We need a progressive to run against Orahma. That simple.

we should all be Icelanders and get behind our own ‘Best Party’.

Sorry Jane, maybe insiders with keen eyes may see sparse glimpses to this, but I sure don’t. All I see from Obama & team is ever-growing arrogance, i.e. last nite’s public slam on Unions who DARED challenge them.
In a recent interview with “Spiegalonline”, 79 yr. old Daniel Ellsberg skewers Obama, saying he ‘s “continuing the worst of the Bush Administration in terms of civil liberties, violations of the constitution and the wars in the Middle East.” BUT, before doing so he proclaims: “I voted for him and I will probably vote for him again, as opposed to the Republicans.” See:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,699677,00.html
Come Nov., too many Democrats will vote Democratic, regardless how the people we elected treated us.
I don’t know why I fell for “Clarence” Obama’s slick sales pitch, whether it was “tribalism”, “dumbing down”, media consolidation, or maybe after “Chauncey” Bush I was was just a sucker for his “hope & change” con. But, come Nov., I will vote to oust ALL incumbent Dems. Until a sizable number of Dems are willing to do the same – to oust their own – all the whining, ranting & chaining of ourselves to fences will come to naught.

As a percentage of what the AARP has now?

I just went there– some of the orangutans are pissed at Obama, but when someone said they wanted accountability for “Bush’s third term” he/she was shouted down hard. And someone else refereed to the “firebaggers”.

So I guess they’re still overrun with Orangupods.

Long time past due. I personally have been targeting them for 15 years now

How many members are active and aware of what the AARP does?

Online activism has it’s place but it takes place behind the “curtain”, in private. Activism on the streets is a public expression and has the potential of exposing the inherent contradictions of a corrupt system to a public that has either not been paying attention or has felt completely powerless to affect change. Should violence be used against a “movement” as a means of control or suppression there is further the potential of alienating and angering the public against what may now be perceived as a corrupt and tyrannical system. Anger and alienation results in more recruits to the “Movement” resulting in more and larger protests and the snowball gets larger and larger and larger. Look at any mass movement in the U.S. to see that once the power of the state is brought to bear on unarmed citizens the whole dynamic can change almost overnight.

bing bing bingo

some 10 years late, but hey…(•:

So your idea is to protest, disobey, and the corporate plutocrats who’re eating you all alive, will magically transform into benevolent, near-saintly human beings who see the error of their ways and atone for them 4 times over (St Matthew? I dunno, childhood memory).

Anyhow, you stringently avoid all out opposition to the Democratic Party and forming and funding your own national party. Why?

I think this is true and would like to add that Cloward and Piven pointed out that this kind of pressure works best more than 30 years ago.

Post war baby boom is just beginning to turn 65. Birth rate peaked in 1964, iirc, and 1964+65=2029. AARP has long & profitable life ahead of it.

And now I’m moderated. It is indeed HuffPo with swear words.

why is there such a ponderous resistance to the obvious?

Besides, online activism has a limited future, until they get rid of net neutrality.

too passive a voice, eCahn.

It sure as hell isn’t organized at this point. I suppose the conference in D.C. the last several days may have helped in building coalitions but still no central organizing structure.

That duplicitous b___h Mary Landreau just posited to Andrea Mitchell regarding helping damage associated with oil …..should BP have to pay…or should it be the American taxpayers? Mitchell had a stunned response.
This corporate call-girl is disgraceful. How can the Louisiana people tolerate her?
How can the Arkansonians tolerate anemic corporate salesgirl Blanch LIncoln?
Oh-barf- maybe they did rig the votes.

It is obvious that they who are for BP are not for us.

Fear.

Jane Hamsher,

NO!

Lt. Dan Choi and GetEQUAL’s little stunts got NOTHING. It was people like me pushing these politicians around and even getting the LGBT Community in Mass to stay him in droves that got the politicians to realize that they had bloody well better get that repeal moving or else. Dan Choi and GetEQUAL actually made it harder for us to get this bill through and FORCED us into compromise. I have spent far more time and effort getting DADT repealed than I want to admit to, and unlike Lt. Choi, I do not get paid a bundle to do so.

The little site that I and four other women run did more to lobby Congress and get something passed than Lt. Choi got. Some of our writers went to Congress in person and told them flat out that if they did not pass this, the site would not support them in the next election and they would lose. We lobbied and we won, not Lt. Choi and his stunts. We made it clear just what we could do and what we could not.

I have gotten a lot of flack for what saying what I am saying right here, right now, but I am no longer the only member of the LGBT Community wondering just how much damage GetEQUAL did to DADT’s repeal. A lot of their backers are finally saying that they are not sure that these stunts actually produced anything.

I normally do not come onto other people’s sites and say this part. I normally leave nice comments without mentioning my own site. This time, I am doing this comment not as a private citizen, but one of those who helped get us something- anything. It was people like me, not Pam Spaulding and Lt. Dan Choi who were busy doing stunts and having a hoot at cocktail parties. It was grass/netroots people like me working from my home in Vermont writing, analyzing and pushing every day for this to happen.

Sincerely

Bridgette P. LaVictoire
Associate Editor
Lez Get Real

I think the coalition building, – if it exists, is happening behind closed doors, which is monumental idiocy. This should be full out participatory and not ‘elite’ baked.

I will vote to oust ALL incumbent Dems. Until a sizable number of Dems are willing to do the same – to oust their own – all the whining, ranting & chaining of ourselves to fences will come to naught.

I agree that punishing those incumbents who’re currently giving us the shaft is a great way to go, but what does that leave? If a large portion of Dems vote independent, Republicans will continue to toe the party line and we lose all those seats to the Rs. Where’s the gain in that?

Maybe you’re in a position to tough it out for another 4 or 8 or 12 years, but my family is slowly being strangled. If I don’t vote Democrat, I fear it will get worse, even faster. I’d gladly sacrifice my personal creature comforts to influence political change, but I have a family to worry about. And these fuckers aren’t just after my creature comforts anymore. They’d probably like to take everything, leave me and mine dead, and then bleed us dry for stock at for-profit corporate blood banks.

Hell millions marched nationwide before that bloody fucking invasion. Millions. School teachers, plumbers, WWII, Korean, Vietnam, Desert Storm Vets, families pushing children in strollers and seniors in wheelchairs, students, teamsters, people of all ages and backgrounds. Many of were there. I audiotaped hundreds at the first march against that invasion in the fall of 2002 in D.C. (the crowd was over a hundred thousand, NPR was not there they did not whisper about this march) there were many marches after that. At the march in Feb of 2003 hundreds of thousands marched in New York.

The MSM did not show the rest of the public sitting at home wondering about the vailidity of the Bush administrations intelligence, confused, questioning. No they were put to sleep by the endless repetition of the Bush adminstrations “WMD’s , we have to go there, Iraq and 9/!1, mushroom clouds” scared into silence.

I would go to friends in D.c. and New York and flip through the MSM’s coverage of those marches. They would not interview the Vets, the School teachers, the families. They would show the same fucking clip of the 20 or so people with black hoods over their heads kicking garbage cans, or taunting the police. The american publics half ass consent to that bloody invasion based on a “pack of lies” was a manufactured consent

The MSM was terribly complicit. They have blood on their hands. And most of them do not give a rats ass about the dead and injured in Iraq.

The revolution will not be televised. Hell Israel cut off communications systems of the Mavi Marmara. If they were so sure about the legality of that raid document it. They do not want the world to see when they blew bullets in the back of those 9 activist heads.

If it’s occurring at all it’s very hushed up.

Have you all missed the arrogance of Obama and Duncan with the Race To The Top (money bribe for grades) indocrination in education? They are breaking the teachers unions!!! Pay attention.

Obama is not for unions at all. I believe he is a poser for the corporations. How else could you let BP handle such an unimaginable act of corporate terrorism and DEFER?

Perhaps Jane could tell us about the ‘temperatures’ in her circles?

That duplicitous b___h Mary Landreau just posited to Andrea Mitchell regarding helping damage associated with oil …..should BP have to pay…or should it be the American taxpayers?

That clip we can use against every Pol who takes oil money. In a Recession this would be toxic.

Great post Jane. Thank you.

Your comment @ 26 should be turned into a follow-up post.

Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is up: Two Quick Takes on Blanche Lincoln

When protests were in full swing the local media would come out and we might get a 10 second clip on the 11 o’clock news. I was interviewed by a reporter from the St Pete Times and when I read it in the paper the only thing I recognized was my name. This clown showed up the very next Sat evening and he got an earful. Didn’t come back until the city erected barricades but by then we weren’t commenting to the media.

The mistake was not recognizing the fact that the corporate media is a gate keeper. They will allow the public information only if it is in keeping with the accepted “wisdom.” No, the corporate media is not a dispassionate source for the information needed for the citizenry to make informed decisions. It is a conduit of disinformation and propaganda. Future demonstrations must target them as part of the problem. Any future movement must create a new 4th Estate that bypasses the gatekeepers. The internet and blogs are a start but again do not reach the “general” public.

We now have youtube, independent internet TV news channels, blogs, etc. Time to snap out of sedate stupor and take a look around.

Direct-action intervention.

You can’t do things they can ignore. I know I’m the Wet-Blanket in Chief around here on the typical methods of activism. But if you step back and think about the construction of the regular channels of influence, you can see that they’re all designed specifically to give you the illusion of engagement.

Petitions go in the trash, open letters go unread, donations get exploited, phone calls go to low-level functionaries (until they get overwhelmed, then they just go to voicemail). It goes on and on.

If you’re not actively impeding their way of life malevolence, you’re just ignored, spoon-fed platitudes to string you along. The most important thing to understand is… they don’t care what you think. It’s not that they don’t know, or don’t understand. It’s that they don’t care. They’re not compassionate, thoughtful people. They’re opportunistic narcissists. View every piece of activism through that lens, and judge its potential impact as such.

Direct-action intervention.

Now that we’re finally nearing the same page, can I still be the Wet-Blanket in Chief with an advancing case of Naderism?

When representatives of the corporate media show up at a demonstration or rally the tables have to be turned on them. Don’t play their game but question their legitimacy and point out their shortcomings and hypocrisy directly to their faces. Demonstrators can be trained prior to any action on how best to neutralize reporters, correspondents, cameramen/women etc.. Let them know there are new rules to the game.

Excellent points.

when I went to the very first Code Pink rally in D.C. I asked Medea why all the antics the pink? We discussed how and why the media comes for the antics the drama. How to use it.

Until we officially and definitively break with Obama and the Democrats, they won’t take us seriously. And we won’t take ourselves seriously either. If we broke with them, then what we need to do for November becomes clear. 1) We do everything we can to lambaste them. We publicize their failures and sellouts, in other words we force them to run on their record. 2) We do not support any Democrat. We do not work for them. We do not give them any money. 3) We only support candidates who truly support our views, not kind of or sort of around the edges, but rather all or nothing.

Remember Democrats do not own our votes. They have an obligation if they want our votes to run real, not crap, candidates. If they go with crap, then they own their defeats and what is the difference anymore between a Republican and a crap Democrat?

“they don’t care what you think. It’s not that they don’t know, or don’t understand. It’s that they don’t care. They’re not compassionate, thoughtful people. They’re opportunistic narcissists. View every piece of activism through that lens, and judge its potential impact as such.”

Or their producers don’t care. I have met journalist who care…few and far between

So does this mean that Richard Trumka is going to chain himself to the White House fence?

It is obvious that no one in the Village (media or White House or Congress) responds to ordinary citizens doing anything no matter how large the numbers — unless they are pumped by FoxNews.

Choi at that point was no ordinary citizen.

And the issue was highly focused on DADT, not LGBT rights in general.

So who is it whose presence would have leverage and what is the focused issue for the action? That apparently is the key to successfully putting pressure on through direct action.

BTW, can someone tell me how you get 99,000 people over 46 counties to vote for you when you have no obvious campaign — no web site, no signs, no media coverage. The result is to shake a state Democratic establishment and kill the prospects for an establishment candidate.

Totally agree. The degree of success of an action will be directly related to the degree of discomfort of the political recipient.

This was in 2003, before YouTube, blipTV, etc, fuckno. I also think the group I’m one of the original members of has done quite a fair job of education. Is your group doing this?

No doubt. And if there were a million lefties in the street, the media will track down the truthers and the “terrorist-sympathizers” but ultimately you can’t operate in fear of what the corporate media will do.

.

They looked to be 6 months to a year behind the curve at that DC conference. Heck, Moulitsas was there. Durbin was there. Jared Birnstein was kind of there. Borosage was still in how do we work better with the Democrats mode. I really wouldn’t look for leadership from that group.

Does that group remind you of this group on this thread?

still holds: Time to snap out of sedate stupor and take a look around.

if Progressives head this way in the Arkansas race that will really piss Blanche and Bill Clinton off. Are the voters in Arkansas even close to ready for the Greens?

Blanche Lincoln, John Boozman will face Green Party’s John Gray in Arkansas US Senate race
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/53706

A serious pressure point

There’s no way out of this mess without risking some personal pain and loss, Kris. That is true, even though I sympathize with your fears. The choice presented is to fight for a better long-term future for your family, rather than a more comfortable short-term one. If we only think short-term, we will always lose to those with more resources to deploy to the struggle. That’s how it’s always been, still is, and always will be unless we come up with a magic wand. I sure don’t have one of those.

Jane Hamsher, Marcy Wheeler, Trumka, Glen Greenwald chained to the White Hosue fence. Oh damn we can dream

You’ll have to give the rest of us in Manhattan a heads up, so we can back you up.

once you kill outliers like Nader, you’ve got ‘Zero’ to step in?

Dean?- ha!

And they were all too fucking polite, and too willing to accept the “Free Speech Zones.” God, what a corruption those things are. If you go there, you’re agreeing to be not heard.

Plus, it make take being willing to stay for multiple days, if necessary, until concessions are made.

Oh, if it’s not what you espouse it isn’t anything, eh? Don’t know why I bothered with you again. I should know better.

It’s time to take names.. Everyone knows who the rich pampered and privileged news “performers” are but how many know whothe producers and executive producers are? It’s time to start making all the elites, whether they be in politics or the media, feel very very uncomfortable.

throw in some Pols into the mix and it would surely be covered. Excellent, cheap, and effective!

Vietnam, civil rights marches, pre war Iraq invasion marches. While marching/protesting before the invasion kept thinking why not get all of these people into the halls of congress forget out on the streets. The MSM was not giving close to adequate coverage.

Really liked the “sit ins” way back when. They don’t care when you have millions in the streets unless the protest is in Tehran or you are packing guns then you get the coverage

It would be even more effective if 1000 others joined them at the gates.

The few conversations I have had with AARP, once I start to discuss social security and what is happening, I am quickly brushed off.

another year of sitting on our thumbs, and a Dan Choi doppeltganger will be treated as a terrorist and disappeared.

the money that was raised for Halter’s campaign has been mentioned over and over again in the MSM.

Drives me crazy that when any of the talking heads mention blogs the progressive movement Move on Is always ALWAYS MENTIONED. As if they are the only mobilizing force. Hell I don’t even click on my messages from Moveon any longer been years

I agree. I don’t think there is a single way to do this. If this is going to be a bottom up, small d democratic enterprise, then the more ways the better.

And just to repeat my current advice on what to do:

Dump Obama and the Democrats

Go populist.

That’s what I’m thinking, too. Real numbers as opposed to just good symbolism.

Thank you! I’ve been saying that for years now. Any successful strategy for change, MUST include the media. And it needs to be a primary focus, not just something we bitch about under our breath.

Except that senior’s AARP subscription money now will have to go to supplemental health insurance…

My union orgainizing teamster WWII dad wanted to do a wheel chair roll out of his nursing home the other day. Pissed off about what the aides get paid, the legislated ratio of aides to patients, most aides are over worked, under paid and these place are more than often understaffed, the quality of the food.

You know the media would come for that. A senior citizens roll out.

He yelled out in the nursing home hall way “if you people pushed and joined unions you would not have these problems” All of these health care workers know this to some degree.

SD, thanks for reminding me about the film. I’m passing along the link. More people need to see it but I don’t expect it on the MSM.

http://www.powerofcommunity.org/cm/index.php

Yep. Supporting the establishment in any way now is counterproductive.

Time to say >>>

the Billionaires for Wealthcare have done some great actions.

Billionaires Rally to Ask Americans to Donate Their Social Security Checks

http://www.billionairesforwealthcare.com/

Have gotten friends to go out dressed up at Billionaires for Wealthcare several times

Have had fun while starting lots of interesting conversations
http://www.thelastofhismind.com/wordpress/?tag=halloween

I think you have a point. At least initially though, it’s not so much about making people uncomfortable, but about how the messages get manufactured and packaged. As with any other industry, there is a process from gathering raw material to sending out a finished product. Having a solid understanding of that process is critical. You can be quite sure that all the political insiders know exactly who the producers are…and their phone numbers.

What would happen if some other organization organized a Wal Mart workers unite for a union march in D.C. Could Wal Mart fire all the workers at once?

Well, the Obama administration certainly is not going to help “progressives”.

White House official: ‘Organized labor just flushed $10 million down the toilet’

that toilet has a clog in it and that shit might come splattering right back in their faces

On DADT, A movement could be put afoot for ALL gays in the military to come out at once. Call it “What Are They Gonna Do, Fire Me? Day”. There are roughly 1.5 million US troops, figure 5-10% would mean 75-150 thousand are GLBT. They can harass good folks out one at a time, what would They do with a hundred thousand standing up – and then what would They do without them?

We’re likely to stumble into a deep depression within the next 6 month as ponzi capitalism unravels.

Paint that picture in your mind and ask yourselves how plans made in this environment are sufficient to deal with ‘that’ environment. I feel we remain way out in front of the ball, and I cannot figure out why…..

Of course you’re right, and I agree it’s likely to get worse. The sorry truth is, we’re living with two branches of one party that has nothing but disdain for all of us who are not rich & powerful. It’s tragic that the best thing one can say about Dems is that they’re not Repubs.
Never in my lifetime has this country been so needing for a voice of the people. Sorry, I don’t know another way to address my frustration & anger for our elected Dems then to vote them out. If they were doing ANYTHING for us, our kids or our grandkids I might think differently.

I’ll drink their koolaid, – I’ll vote against their interests.

Are those in the veal pen impervious to facts?

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0609/tank-neocons-influential-obama-years/

If so, what differentiates them from the mindless W supporters of the first 8 years of this century?

The corporatist Dems define progressives as being impractical and doctrinaire. What’s interesting though, is we can use and turn that same framing against them. What’s practical about a giant oil spill in the Gulf? So-called “centrists” lack ethical principles. That’s their soft spot and the place to attack.

- Tom

We’re likely to stumble into a deep depression within the next 6 month as ponzi capitalism unravels.

Yes, frays and cracks are appearing everywhere in the world economy and our own bubbles. Team Obama will be hard pressed to keep things together until after the November elections. I think that has always been their game plan.

What is important to keep in mind is that we are still heading over the cliff, and the Democratic and Republican parties, their officeholders, the MOTU, the Establishment and our elites in general are not only not braking or changing direction. They are hitting the accelerator.

Jane Hamsher,

The system encourages corruption. Until we pass #1, we will not get the other 9. Please comment.

1. Pass the Fair Elections Now Act (S. 752 and H.R. 1826) – public funding of federal elections to reduce rampant corruption in our government.

2. Financial Regulation – end Too Big To Fail, go back to Glass-Steagall, reign in derivatives – to, among other things, reduce rampant corruption in our government.

3. Pass the Bipartisan Tax Fairness and Simplification Act of 2010 – to, among other things, increase national productivity and reduce rampant corruption in our government

4. End Both Wars – include defense budget in across-the-board spending cuts of the federal budget. Will reduce the deficit and reduce rampant corruption in our government.

5. Create A National Infrastructure Bank – to create jobs now and increase productivity later. Run by engineers, not politicians.

6. Enact Bold Energy & Climate Change Legislation – put a heavy price on carbon so we can transition as soon as possible to renewable energy sources.

7. Immigration Reform – create path to citizenship for illegal aliens.

8. Education Reform – fully fund Race To The Top.

9. Health Care Reform– add the public option. Allow Medicare to purchase drugs. Allow drug re-importation.

10. Create A Healthy Society – federal government mandate the removal of ALL food and drinks of high caloric content in any school receiving federal aid.

Great Post!

Right on Target!

I just wanted an answer to my question. Now I’ve been moderated. But I’ll try again.

What are you hoping to gain from the Corporate-Plutocrat Democratic Party? You cannot engage with it. You must oppose it, defeat it and destroy it. Like the Rethugs.

Why is this blog engaging in any way? Why do you continue to suspend disbelief? What do you think Rahm will think of a couple of million civily disobedient ‘f***in’ r*tarded’ people’s actions?

This blog should be founding and funding a new, untainted, national political party. One dedicated to justice (for the unpunished criminals of at least the last two admins plus their corporate criminal cronies) fairness, social support for the disadvantaged, proper, first world, health care, an end to wars of choice and occupation, and massive investment in clean energy and public infrastructure.

Why won’t you start to do this? Why are you always looking for a way out?

Yes, the painful thing about this situation is that the one way that we can seek to reestablish some element of control is for the Democrats and Obama to be defeated in upcoming elections.

There is very little incentive for them to tack to the left unless they fear losing that wing. Most of the incentives are lined up for them to head right while pandering to the left (particularly given their predeliction to do so). After said loss, while “in the wilderness” the Democratic establishment would (again) have to make the right progressive noises, harangue against the depradations of the Republican party as many of us did during W’s administration and actually start giving voice to progressive criticisms of the current structure.

Basically exactly what happened leading into the Obama administration.

*And then* select a more progressive candidate(s) and refuse to stand down in favor of centralized DNC authority.

It’s threading a narrow needle, which we collectively failed to do this round, all while paying a price of having the greater evil in power. Probability of success is low.

But right now, the problem we face is Democratic validation of all the right wing policies and arguments we fought against (the dreaded ratchet): Iraq, Afghanistan, torture apologies, preventive detention, expansion of corporate welfare, attack on social security, spending on military while starving social programs, increased offshore drilling, pharma/healthinsurance sellouts…yadda yadda.

We are in a real pickle, with no good solutions. Obama is banking on inertia and propaganda for the low info Ds and fear of the greater evil for the left.

Another game plan is unwinding before our eyes in the Gulf.

There is talk of BP going the way of Lehman. We’ll get stuck with the bailout, and Exxon will absorb BP, while the Gulf will become so contaminated as to be declared unsustainable for humans. Thereupon, it will be opened for business.

pfft.

Just my HO but if you want a successful movement for change protests can’t be one-off events intended to achieve coverage by the MSM, because if they are the MSM will cover them as stunts. Their coverage will be predictable: i.e. pick out the 2 or 3 people in the crowd dressed unusually (e.g. like 1960s flower children) and put their images on TV, I’ve been there. Or give it fake “balance,” like the anti-Bush Iraq War rally I was at in Denver, 4k in the crowd and about a half-dozen pro-Bush types, probably Republican Party operatives, cheering Bush, guess who made the front page the next day. But if the rallies are ongoing and average citizens start noticing them the MSM will start to take it seriously, i.e. ask “why are people mad at Obama?” So MSM coverage is important but cannot be the initiator of coverage itself. Just my view.

I wish you weren’t right.

I am with you. I have long said that a progressive party, centered in progressive areas ONLY (i.e. West Coast, New England and cities such as Chicago, St. Paul and Denver/Boulder) and running in Congressional races ONLY (i.e. don’t bother with a presidential candidate initially) could have an influence. I would liken it to the NDP in Canada, concentrated in the progressive (western plains) provinces and which pushed through single payer. And Canada has the same (single-member plurality) election system we do and still supports an active third party. Let’s go!

MSM can probably be ridiculed on Youtube, and blogs into coverage, but as you say the protests have got to have velocity. The only readily cohesive large chunk of mass is with the unions.

I’d love to hear from the blog’s founder why this simple suggestion is apparently not possible.

Surely if anything could harness the energy, enthusiasm and hopes and dreams of the ?20% of truly left wing, progressive citizens of the US, this would be it.

I am at a loss to explain why this obvious step isn’t taken. (or why I’n no longer moderated… :-o ) (ed. – ahh – no , on this thread I am still moderated – HuffPo squared with swearing?!)

How are we going to “pass 1″? As Jon has pointed out, if the Dems don’t recognize the wisdom in making D.C. a state, shouldn’t we all question their true agenda? p.s. Did ANY Congressional Dems argue against repealing Glass-Steagall?

Do you think the Supreme Court will allow “Fair Elections Now”?

The Supreme Court on Tuesday barred officials in Arizona from providing matching funds to candidates for state office who accept public financing, a program meant to help them keep pace with the unlimited spending of candidates who do not take public financing. Campaign finance specialists said the Supreme Court’s move would have major consequences for elections this year in Arizona, where many candidates participate in the public financing system. Under a 1998 state law, candidates who agree to restrictions on private fund-raising are provided with a fixed base amount of public financing as well as matching funds based on spending by candidates not participating in the program.

Justices Block Matching Funds for Candidates in Arizona

Well, I am very pro-union and I agree with you, but there is another issue: trade unions in the US, after the mass strikes and sit-ins of the 1930s, became conservative, and wanted to be viewed as (using a term that makes vomit rise up to the roof of my mouth) “stakeholders” in American capitalism. They became very averse to forming coalitions with the working poor, or engaging in peaceful civil disobedience. That is changing I think after it dawned on them that the “capital-labor accord” had been scuttled some time ago, but still it may be difficult to enlist US labor in issues that don’t directly affect their membership.

Long overdue !!! Boycotts , civil disobedience and the threat of a general strike is about the only strategy that stands any real chance of success .

Non violent non cooperation ! We need to do some real planning here !

Lets get started !!!

bailey,

a sitting senator has to raise $30,000 a DAY to have a competitive race when re-election arrives. it does not matter if he/she is a democrat or a republican, they need the money to survive. i don’t know how we pass the Fair Elections Now Act – sponsored by Dick Durbin & Arlen Spector. until we do, nothing changes!!!!!

You know, I’ve often pondered the Oligarphy invention of “Free Speech Zones.”

Public Space (i.e., streets, sidewalks, rights-of-way, public parks, etc) should be covered under the 1st Amendment. The Free Speech zone concept needs a sustained multi-vector challenge.

Thanks for this. Remember, the first health insurance came into being because Labor struck a deal with the corporate powers: health care instead of raises. The joke’s on us — now we have neither.

To beat the current enemy will take a lot more action than starting a new political party.

The main enemy is not the parties but like BlueToe says the MSM.

The Corporate elite brought Media companies after the 1960′s for a reason to control political policies and political parties. (The corporate elite use to fear the power Walter Kronkite and other had, without Walter Kronkite and others, we may still be fighting in VietNam)

Fox news is an arm of the Republican Party, it tells republicans how to think politically daily. (this a very powerful tool) What if RUSSIA and CHINA brought FOX news? what would the Corporate Elite of this nation do? All you need to do is buy a News Channel and you can run the world? WOW you may think this funny, but think about it. Is Sarah Palin an intellectual powerhouse? No, but she helps get people elected in the USA and she can see RUSSIA.

Some would argue that MSNBC tells Democrats how to think politcally daily.

MSNBC spokes people are not Morons, they all know Obama is no FDR, they all know he is a Reagan or Bush clone. They follow the MSNBC company line of calling Obama a progressive Democrat when nothing he does is progressive, because they want to keep their jobs, and some may love idea of being a Neo-Liberal.

goto100? how will you protect your new National Party from trojan horses like Obama and CLinton? Do you think the corporate elite is going to roll over and let you take over their CONGRESS and White House?

Like BLUETOE said progressives have got to find a way to bypass the filters of the MSM and get information to the masses.

speakingupnow,

thanks for responding. Fair Elections Now Act – Sponsored by Senate Majority Whip Richard Durbin and Rep. John Larson (D-Conn.), the bill has 18 Senate co-sponsors (12 of whom signed on since the Citizens United decision) and 149 bipartisan cosponsors in the House. Activists are hopeful there will be a House vote as soon as this summer, and Durbin reportedly will push for the Senate to take it up after the House does.

bailey,

a sitting senator has to raise $30,000 a DAY to have a competitive race when re-election arrives. it does not matter if he/she is a democrat or a republican, they need the money to survive. i don’t know how we pass the Fair Elections Now Act – sponsored by Dick Durbin & Arlen Spector. until we do, nothing changes!!!!!

see my response to speakingupnow

It’s interesting to review Solidarnosc — the polish labor unions.
The key was the successful coalition of industry (blue collar) workers and the intellectuals.
Thus, the span from Lech Walensa to Adam Michnik. THAT’s what made it work.
That, and courage.

goto you defeat your own argument you think 80% of the USA love the following actions by Obama

in your world does 80% of Democrats hate the public option?

in your world deos 80% of Democrats love the idea of more war?

in your world does 80% of Democrats love the idea of NAFTA?

goto100? more than 20% of america is progressive, the problem is the MSM keeps them confused and dumb.

if you ask the avg tea party person who loves offshore oil drilling they will tell you all the OIL in the GULF is sold to the USA. This is not the case.

if you ask the avg american they tell you OBAMA was for the public option, we all know this is not the case.

until you find a way around the MSM filters you will lose.

Well, mass numbers was what brought Stasi down. Too many “activists” to spy on, data collection so huge that they couldn’t keep up.

The unions made a very big mistake in the 40′s and 50′s during the era of McCarty by purging all the socialists and communists from their ranks and leadership. That more than anything the Republicans have done was the biggest reason for the decline of union power. They were sold a bill of goods that they now were all “stakeholders.” The union movement became co-opted. In class war their are only winners and losers.

It may be easier to help Trumka become this country’s Walensa, than trying to change congress in a multi generational effort.

We should start with BP . Ask for everyone reachable to boycott the company . Go to the gas stations that sell it’s commodity with info about how to switch distributors and warn them that their distributor will be nationally boycotted from all sides !

Start in the gulf coast states heavily and make arrangements with a company (citgo ?) that can replace BP and maybe even at a discount .

Jane is a perfect spokesperson and democracy now is a good place to go to get the message out immediately !

We need to enlist the help of celebrity well known to the pop culture and take the boycott to the rest of the world .

Ahh. Everyone answers (or doesn’t) my simple question, bar the one person who counts. The blog’s founder.

Why not a 3rd Party? How many more beatings from Rahm will it take to divorce the Democrats? This current strategy makes no sense, has already proven ineffective (and please, DADT a “success”? or Lincoln’s derivatives bill??!!), and will lead to them getting everything in the end.

Make a clean break. Give people real hope, real confidence and a real say in the policies. None of these will ever be the case if you continue to try to change the Dems from within.

We should take down BP and then move on to Exxon !

The world knows that democracy in the US is in trouble and we should be able to enlist the help of greens in other countries such as Germany in our struggle to take the corporations out of their position in the worlds only remaining superpower .

Lets turn this into a mass mobilization effort .

I think this site along with others should spend less time pointing out the all corruptions of the system and concentrate more on organizing a mass movement. Every 20 minutes someone posts something new on the how badly the system is broken and yet their is no strategy on how to fight it, other than sending money to some lame candidate, signing a petition or making telephone calls to the very people that benefit from a corrupt system. It’s time to start building a movement that can confront that system and the elites that enable and perpetuate it.

One possibility to start the ball rolling to the tipping point… if someone from the “wealthy elite” developed a conscience and became a vocal leader and advocate for “we the people”. This person would also have to be strong in character. The problem is, I don’t know if there is anyone to match this description.

I never thought I would see the day where messaging was endlessly “positive” FOR Wars and cutting our “social safety nets”. If this is who we are as a country now, it speaks poorly for our future.

The effort could culminate in a constitutional ammendent tostrike down corporate personhood and create public financing of cmpaigns .

A mass mobilization could also become the touchstone for the beginning of a third party . It’s coming out celebration so to speak .

I understand what you’re saying, and I think I addressed that point in my initial comment. It seems an easy suggestion, but contemplate telling my four year old daughter that we have to sleep under an overpass, because we decided to buck the system and not keep Dems in power, and the Rs got rid of social welfare programs. “It’s okay honey, your long term future may be better. Snuggle up to this concrete wall and dream about a progressive revolution.”

That doesn’t fly for me, I’m sorry. We are such a weak minority at this point that any attempts we make to buck the Dems would just make things easier for the Rs. I fucking hate it, but it seems to be the reality. I watched Meg fucking Whitman win a primary here yesterday, just because she has the money to advertise. Car insurance companies here in CA will now have the ability to charge higher rates if you don’t have continuous insurance. If this is the kind of shit, along with FinReg and HCR and the DADT bullshit, that’s happening when we DO back the Democratic horse, I can’t imagine what will happen if we start backing candidates that have no chance.

We’re not reaching enough people. We need to swell the tide behind our movement before we buck the system completely. Otherwise, I fear, we’ll just get rolled over.

Don’t buck the Dem’s . Buck the system !

We only vote once every two years so we have time in between to do something far more proactive .

We can frame the message as an assault on the entire system and leave the democrats largely alone .

You can vote for them in the November election or not .

May I suggest you read the following for a different perspective:

The Third Party Myth

Excellent read, thanks. Adds some perspective for me. I’m just frightened by the idea that if a large enough minority of us jump off the bandwagon, it will be enough to hurt the Democrats and enable the Republicans, without it being enough to elect the right people to replace the Democrats. Does that make sense?

AND, when things get much worse for the working and middle class in this country, (and they will since we are continuing the same failed policies regarding trade and economics), what will you say to your daughter when she asks you why you continually voted in the same people who didn’t represent HER interests?

I thought the financial crisis would be a wake-up call for the American public to the widespread corruption of the federal government. I was wrong. It is going to take a bigger crisis to dramatically change public opinion and voting patterns. I see a bigger crisis coming. The BP oil spill may be dumping 100,000 barrels a day into the Gulf. Mix that with a hurricane and you will have black beaches from Texas to North Carolina. We’ll see if America can be awakened from her dogmatic slumber?

I understand exactly how you feel. I have been a lifelong Democrat. The problem is that the Democratic Party that I once endorsed has been taken over by the neo-liberal corporate agenda. For me personally, voting for a Democrat (unless they are a known progressive), is now about the same as voting for Republican of the past. As someone who believes your country will be as strong as the working and middle class are, I can no longer in good conscience vote for a Democrat.

I’m not saying that I’m not willing to be part of a progressive movement. What I’m saying is there aren’t enough of us involved, at this point, to make a difference at the polls. If 30,000 Democrats in California walk away from Jerry Brown as the gubernatorial candidate, and instead vote independent, it may be enough to fuck over Jerry Brown, but it won’t be enough to elect the independent. Enter Meg Whitman, whose policies are fucking insanely NeoCon.

This is where my problem is. Not with the ideas being considered, but with the reality of our numbers. I’m saying that I believe, with our current ranks, that we might do more harm than good. If we can reach enough people, organize strongly enough and draw enough attention through civil disobedience and peaceful protest, we can affect some real change. I just don’t think we’re there yet.

So true. They pumped up the largely phony teabag thing and still do and ignore us totally. Why? because we pose a real threat while the teabag thing doesn’t.

The problem is people are still getting their information from nightly national news programs. MSM isn’t telling the American people the truth, but they still trust Brian Williams and Katie Couric like they’re fucking Edward R Murrow. It’s a joke. We’ve got millions of barrels of oil floating around the Gulf and they all want to talk about Stephen Strasburg and that Van Der Sloot kid.

Its all water-cooler focused crap. The IDF killed an American in an unlawful raid last week and Good Morning America doesn’t give a shit. Therefore, the large majority of America doesn’t give a shit. Until people pull their heads out of the sand and look around, we are on our own here.

Many “changes” in this country came about with small numbers of people being actively involved. If what you truly believe is the morally correct thing to do…example, end child slavery, institute minimum wage, institute social security for the elderly, etc., etc., eventually “we the people” come around because the majority know it is in their best interests. A big problem right now…messaging. We have a few corporations controlling the media and therefore the message. I don’t believe that is what our founding fathers had in mind. “We” need to fight back against the corporate and elitist messaging being dispensed in the media. Whatever you do, don’t give up on making this country better, if for no other reason, for the sake of your daughter.

EXACTLY!!!

My idea is: don’t run for office in large entities with disparate views (i.e. CA has both SF and SD which are very different politically), offices such as governor or president. Rather, concentrate on congressional races where we dominate: SF, Seattle, St. Paul, Denver/ Boulder, Eugene, most of the northeast, etc. If a progressive party held, say, 20% of the seats (to use GOTO100′s number), AND (an important qualifier) was disciplined and insisted on voting according to party principles as a bloc (instead of being a sell-out a la Bernie Sanders due to liking the perks that come with it), we would have REAL POWER.

I don’t think anything I said indicates I’m giving up on making this country better. I was simply responding to the suggestion that we stop voting for Democrats without an organized plan for replacing them.

I understand the messaging issue quite clearly. I’m even seeing it now on Rachel Maddow’s show, and KO. Even the liberal commentators are starting to sound like Rush Limbaugh with different talking points. It’s all a carefully orchestrated cycle to shift focus from the real issues at hand, so the corporate elitist assholes can continue to line their pockets. I get that.

I just feel that abandoning Dems at the pols, without sufficient numbers, just makes it easier for the Republicans to do even worse. To put it another way, would you rather have 4 years of McCain/Palin? Without sufficient numbers to back another progressive or independent candidate, that’s what we’d be facing.

There are organizational issues here. We need to overcome the crafted messaging and centralize the progressive movement. I just don’t have a clue how to do it. But I am trying to spark a conversation about it, because I know there are folks here that are smart enough to figure out the right way.

The democravens have ALWAYS been a neoliberal party. Roosevelt only enacted SS because 1) people took to the streets and forced him to and 2) he wanted to co-opt any real movement for real change, i.e. the end of capitalism in the US, and its replacement with democracy that extends to all aspects of social life.

The ‘compromise’ sham you are so proud of will not result in Open Service anytime soon. It allows the White House to be feted by the Veal Pen, of which you seem to be a junior member, during Pride Month.

It accomplishes absolutely NOTHING (yes I’m shouting) for those who serve in silence right now. And if you think that your insider activism meant anything as opposed to the ‘stunts’ like Dan Choi’s and GetEqual’s, you are sadly misinformed about what made this happen.

It’s heroes like Dan Choi we have to thank, not people like you.

The hell with the voting booth and the primaries . The only way to raise awareness and flex muscle is outside the usual channels .

We need to employ the best methods of the past ,, those that created real progress . Boycotts , civil disobedience and strikes !

The gulf is the place to start . It is seething and the media is already focused on whats going on there .

Visible civil disobedience .

Gandhi never went anywhere without the western press . We need to start making waves that will be seen on Teeee Veee !

How about “OPERATION EXPOSE OBAMA“?

In particular, we expose the following:

1) How the healthcare reform is still going to leave us with healthcare costs about 2x per capita of what Europeans pay (I calculated that an average family of 4 will pay about $17,000 per year more into the parasitic healthcare industry than if we had real reform to take us down to European cost levels)

2) How Obama stabbed us in the back, specifically the deal he cut with Tauzin (Oh, and by the way, how’s the drug re-importation re-evaluation coming along?).

3) How the Democrats played us in this drama (well covered at FDL)

4) How the Republicans knew very well about Obama’s perfidy, but kept their mouths shut, instead plying us with tales of pulling the plug on Grandma and death panels. Just in case anybody doesn’t connect the dots, it should be made clear that they kept their mouths shut because they didn’t want to expose their mutual ‘John’, viz., the healthcare industry.

In short, we should be de-legitimzing Obama, the Dems and the Repubs for this farce of a government that they’ve finagled, but to keep the messaging short and not-so-sweet, just call it “Operation Expose Obama”, not “Operation Expose Obama, the Dems, and the Repubs” or “Operation Expose the whole freakin’ US Government”

Another timely bullet point we can add to Operation Expose Obama: his flip-flop on offshore drilling. Really, he’s provided us with a bunch of riches, so adding a few more bullet points is a good thing.

IMO, if activists had started beating Obama over the head when Tauzin first blabbed of his deal, and demanded a public apology from Obama, we likely would have gotten a much better healthcare plan. I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST IN A MORE IN-YOUR-FACE STYLE OF ACTIVISM, SINCE THE MORE OR LESS COMPLETE FAILURE OF THE VEAL PEN STYLE HAS ONLY DONE THE ‘SLAUGHTERHOUSE’ ANY GOOD.

If you do decide to be a leader with an Operation Expose Obama type of effort, please think of ways to propagate the message well beyond “blogging to the choir”. (I know FDL helps run TV ads, which is great, but I’m calling for additional and frankly cheaper methods of attack.) Google ads, college newspaper ads, asking your readers to pass out leaflets at the coming BP demonstrations, passing out flyers on July 4, passing out flyers at Tea Parties, passing out flyers at Coffee Parties. As usual, Nathan Aschbacher makes a good points, in this case about not directing the pressure so much directly at legislators, who know damn well the problems and what would help people more than corporations.

Unfortunately, in the process of propagating political messages such as Operation Expose Obama, there’s still no candidate pipeline available, to simultaneously draw people’s attention to the sorts of people who a) have expressed an interest in running for office, if there’s enough support and b) we can find out their positions years ahead of time. IMO, when we have much needed democratic infrastructure built out, no public-minded citizens’ group would even think of spending time and $$ propagating political messages, without simultaneously directing people’s attention back to democratic infrastructure, including (but in no ways limited to) a) voting blocs and b) candidate pipelines.

In your case, happily, you can still direct their attention back to Accountability Now, as well as FDL, proper.

Ahh. Everyone answers (or doesn’t) my simple question, bar the one person who counts. The blog’s founder.

Why not a 3rd Party? How many more beatings from Rahm will it take to divorce the Democrats? This current strategy makes no sense, has already proven ineffective (and please, DADT a “success”? or Lincoln’s derivatives bill??!!), and will lead to them getting everything in the end.

Make a clean break. Give people real hope, real confidence and a real say in the policies. None of these will ever be the case if you continue to try to change the Dems from within.

Completely abandoning the Dems is undoubtedly a correct piece of the puzzle and has been for some time. Anyone who does not see that has blinders on. Having said that, that is only part of what would be a successful strategy.

The problem is the self-perpetuating corrupted, corporatist system and until certain changes are made to that system, 3rd parties are not going to have a great affect. So, while it is right and proper to call for people like Hamsher and Greenwald to abandon the Dems and back a populist 3rd party, without a concerted and sustained direct action/civil disobedience campaign your 3rd party won’t help us.

Our representative republic is too far gone for that. Voting means nothing right now and won’t, no matter how many parties exist, until changes are made to the system we vote them into. The current (“current” being whenever people wake up) political class is going to have to be forced into making changes which correct the ills of the system. This will in turn give hope to 3rd parties. In other words, we are going to have to battle the powers that be no matter who they are and we can not afford to wait around another 30-40 years while people toil away, attempting to establish a 3rd party into a corrupted system.

Sustained, effective, impossible-to-ignore direct action/civil disobedience is the key. Everything else, including attempts to establish 3rd parties, are merely supportive pieces that will have little to no affect by themselves.

In Canada they have the same single-member simple plurality election system we do and they have single-payer. The difference: the New Democratic Party, a progressive party centered in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. It was Tommy Douglas of the NDP (the smallest of the three national parties) that pushed through single payer:

http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/

Inherent in this entire line of thinking are all the gymnastics and strong-arming required enforce discipline. It’s just another authoritarian structure, fundamentally ready and willing to be the next slave of corruption.

For the life of me I cannot comprehend people’s inability to step outside the rigid framework of the current order. A 3rd-party isn’t a solution. There are all kinds of dysfunctional multi-party systems that are just as woefully anti-democratic as what we have here. They just have more official names and organizations for all the factions we lump together. Sure, it’d be a plausible improvement, until the corporate Democrats and corporate Republicans merge and shift the plurality to the effectively unbreakable.

The Parties aren’t the reason you don’t have any functional representation, Representation is the reason you don’t have functional representation. Proxies aren’t accountable to your prerogatives, and they will always become an institutionalized class that works for you by coincidence, not design.

Why leave the republicans out ?

Why not expose the corruption of the entire system . The libertarians and the progressives must be in this together !

Ah-h-h-h

You didn’t read my post carefully. I explicitly mentioned de-legitimizing Republicans (to be clear, I’m talking about Republicans that hold office, and Republican party operative who have no scruples, not rank-and-file. Similarly for the Democrats.)

Only the title omits mention of Republicans (and Democrats, for that matter).

I don’t consider corporayte lackeys to be “entrist.” I consider big business to be inherently right-wing. I wish we could get some consensus agreement on these labels.

The Parties aren’t the reason you don’t have any functional representation, Representation is the reason you don’t have functional representation. Proxies aren’t accountable to your prerogatives, and they will always become an institutionalized class that works for you by coincidence, not design.

Well, that is certainly the way it is now and would be with a 3rd party within the current corrupted system but it doesn’t have to be that way. I am of the firm belief that the altering of the system combined with true vigilance would change that dynamic.

You would call for Direct Democracy then?

Yeah, well, I agree with you but what is the first step? I am a Marxist in favor of direct democracy, but wishing we had the things I want will not make them so. What I am in favor of is mobilization in all its forms, discussion above all else of the limits of parliamentary democracy. Part of that, in my opinion, is mobilization for short-term change, keeping in mind that to have democracy we must go beyond electing people every 2 to 4 years to rule over us. As the ancient Greeks believed, election is inherently undemocratic.

How about us yelling Obama’s a sellout to Wall St, Big Pharma and BP at every public appearance from now on out?

I’m sure that will get the Rahm “fucking stupid” seal of approval.

There are more parties than ever here in Germany (5). Exactly the opposite of what you describe. The system of government is not great, but it is certainly not dysfunctional.

Just try putting a few senators and representatives from a progressive left party in there from the two coasts, and see what happens.

Before you respond with ‘Italy’, it is like it is for a host of reasons other than the political system, and the largest factor of them all remains organised crime.

The US would not end up like Italy were it given a more pluralistic system.

I have been arguing for some time that revoking corporate personhood should be a key component of a populist third party platform. The management hear won’t hear of it, and I can’t figure out why. It seems so damn obvious to me.

I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with electing people to perform the drudgery of governance, but there’s no good reason to also give them decision-making authority.

We do have direct-democracy in many places. 24-States have means and methods already for popular reforms. We’re a pretty meager group in our electoral numbers, but there’s plenty of activism and expertise to start a broad campaign of initiative drafting, local organizing to get petitions signed that actually make a difference (getting things on ballots, rather than stacks of names that end up in the trash), etc. I also think a popular push for a Constitutional Convention state-by-state should be any part of a long-term strategy. Our national politics have exactly zero vectors for popular reform via civil means. At some point we’re going to have to change that, and it’s going to have to come via an amendment, and specifically one that comes through convention, because the Congress isn’t going to get behind something like that. It directly undermines their purpose and power.

We’re not going to reform D.C. without first reforming the country. We’ve been going about this all backward. When it comes to politics we have to be our own heroes, and quit relying on these fantasies of righteous paternalistic stewardship.

Believe me, Kris, I empathize with your situation. I worry about my dog if I get targeted or arrested lol, but it’s a real worry nonetheless. My point was just that, as strategy, that hard choice must be embraced if we want to force change. But, I don’t blame you at all for not being willing, given your reponsibilities and lack of a cushion.

Multiple-parties don’t indicate dysfunction. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that there appears very little, if any, statistical correlation between the size of the gap between the government and the governed based purely on how many parties happen to be active in government. The more democratic countries have different fundamental structures and balances of power, as well as means for accountability (recall, no-confidence, preferential voting, etc.) that seem to make them that way.

Markets are prepping for one more failed rally, then bombs away to the downside. Your crisis is comming.

Voting for a state Dem is completely different than voting for a national Dem.

If you want to get the facts better than from the MSM, try reading FDL lol. ;-)

the basic problem is that there is too much money in politics!! all of the other problems stem from that.

great!!

I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with electing people to perform the drudgery of governance, but there’s no good reason to also give them decision-making authority.

Inherent in this entire line of thinking are all the gymnastics and strong-arming required enforce discipline. It’s just another authoritarian structure, fundamentally ready and willing to be the next slave of corruption.

there is great wisdom to be found in suffering.

I strong street presence is the key. Blogs are essential for organizing that.

Absolutely, we need both. Each will serve to boost the other. Synergy.

I’m for that. Cheap, easy, and it won’t hurt anything we care about.

Not mine, Nathan. Adjust your aim. ;-)

I like it !

My point was just that, as strategy, that hard choice must be embraced if we want to force change.

I agree. I’d submit that we’d need greater numbers to force that change. At this point our progressive attitude seems to be embraced only by a small, small minority of Americans (even though it seems to largely align with the rest of the worlds “Socialist” political leanings). I think that as a small minority, walking away from the two party system would do more harm than good.

Well, your voting system certainly is a recipe for non-democracy. It is awful. You need some sort of PR, regardless of the noise from fly-over country. It would pretty much immediately end kickbacks, since it would end the tradition of individual senators, often from small states, holding an entire country to ransom on any number of issues, and nearly destroying the national legislative process as a result. PR is surely the considerable lesser of two evils when compared to today’s system?

Why do you think this way? Some “progressive” positions are actually mainstream. For starters, wouldn’t it be a vast improvement just to get a few, but very popular, progressive-as-well-as-mainstream things accomplished?

From Noam Chomsky on Health Care Reform and Dysfunctional Democracy:

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, healthcare is a dramatic case. I mean, for decades, the healthcare issue has been right at the top of domestic concerns, for very good reasons. The US has the most dysfunctional healthcare system in the industrial world, has about twice the per capita costs and some of the worst outcomes. It’s also the only privatized system. And if you look closely, those two things are related. And the privatized system is highly inefficient: a huge amount of administration, bureaucracy, supervision, you know, all kinds of things. It’s been studied pretty carefully.
Now, the public has had an opinion about this for decades. A considerable majority want a national healthcare system, like other industrial countries have. They usually say a Canadian-style system, not because Canada is the best, but at least you know that Canada exists. Nobody says an Australian-style system, which is much better, because who knows anything about that? But something like what’s sometimes called Medicare Plus, like extend Medicare to the population.

(emphasis mine)

While a thoroughly progressive US government (whatever that might mean) may not be in the offing, ever, there’s no good reason why we shouldn’t be able to achieve substantial progressive reforms which already have majority buy-in, as well as others which would have majority buy-in if they were properly propagandized. (By “propagandized”, I mean communicating about them to the public at large, despite the bottleneck of a corrupted lamestream media.)

IMO, exposing the extreme corruption and duplicity of the Democratic and Republican elected politicians (starting with Obama) will be very helpful, and perhaps necessary to force realization on the public as to why they need to organize themselves into vote blocs that will force through the changes that have popular support.

Once that’s achieved, then long, drawn out political fights wherein the public is divided over the remaining issues makes more sense.

Bah! That’s what I get for commenting while taking calls :-)

It is. So, how can we dismantle the veal pen?

When I was an undergrad in the late 80s one of my professors (a Euro gov specialist) showed us statistics from polling data that showed countries with proportional representation (and thus multiple parties) had a stronger correlation between the desires of the public and the actions of government compared to countries with single-member plurality systems such as ours. That is to say, the government is more likely to reflect the will of the demos in countries with multiple parties. Now, I concur with you that better systems of election are not the end goal, but they can be a pathway to the end goal of real democracy, a way to engage in mobilization.

Proportional representation and multiple-parties aren’t the same thing.

true, but the former often leads to the latter.

Jon Walker is upstairs!
FL Sen: Crist Manages to Hold Lead for Now

No, it doesn’t. The way you structure your districts and offices does.

It’s entirely possible to operate a multi-party system while still having winner-take-all electoral politics.

One may incidentally occur in the presence of the other, but neither is a dependent condition of the other one.

Okay, but I’d argue it’s probably easier to add an extra party at a national level under PR than winner takes all.

Scarecrow is upstairs!
“Effing Retarded” in Obama’s White House: How to Alienate Democrats

I get home from work, and read this comment thread in its entirety, and I just have to laugh out loud as well as cringe.

About 90% of the comments totally miss the point.

I have been out proud and loud for over 30 years now, and that out/loud/proud is a fundamental piece of why gay politics has changed over the last 40 years. What hasn’t changed?

The political parties, how they’re organized, or the influence of money. Sure there’s blogs now, it just makes the coffee-klatching and happy-hours faster, and less face-to-face.

The real reason is the essence of the people who long for change, and simply become it by demanding equality. As David Sirota told me “Power concedes nothing without demand.” And out gay proud folks have been and remain INCESSANT in that demand, society changed and we’re far further than I thought we’d ever be 30 years ago.

So those of you demanding the FDL blog do one thing or another, shut yer frikking pie hole and BE what you CLAMOR for. Without evidence of that, phooey on you.

If you types were paying attention, you’d know and recognize how the Healthcare game played out, and how FDL acted as smart as possible to effect change. And BTW, those tactics are no different from how the Halter race worked out;

A strategy assessment period, coupled with and followed by consistent editorial principle, with calls to action at strategic points.

Just because action calls aren’t being made at this point in time doesn’t mean Jane doesn’t have plans. I have no special knowledge, I’m just saying I recognize the pattern.

Other than that, you can always be gay you know. Out loud and proud and making shit happen. I highly recommend it.

Proportional representation encourages multiple parties. Quick, name a country with proportional representation but only two parties seated in the parliament? Can’t think of one? That’s because there aren’t any. With a PR system, if a party has the support of say 10% countrywide, it will receive 10% of the seats in parliament, and thus eliminates the fear that you are “wasting your vote.” Just today the FDP in Germany, which only receives around 10% in any election, forced the Government of Angela Merkel (of the CDU), with whom the FDP is in a coalition, to turn down an auto loan that GM requested for Opel, its German subsidiary:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100609/bs_nm/us_opel_aid_2

If Merkel had allowed the loan, the FDP would have brought down the government even though they only receive 10% of the vote. THAT IS REAL POWER.

Well, first, the main post was “what works” in advancing the (broader) progressive agenda not (narrowly) “how to further the gay rights agenda.” But more to the point: forgive me if I misread you, but you seem to be advocating a “work within the system” argument, that what we need to do is to put pressure on the elites to consider our perspectives as (gag, gag) “stakeholders” (gag) with interests equal to BP, Big Pharma, etc. And I do not buy that, nor think it will change anything.

Derrick Crowe is upstairs!
Secretary Gates, Backpedaling

Hell no, gay people did not get anything by playing IN THE SYSTEM!

We behaved OUT of it and the big parts of the “system” and Society simply couldn’t ignore our 2%-10% of the population (by whichever count you want to use.)

THAT’s my point.

I’m too depressed and angry to be gay. ;-)

Well, now I’m confused by you, since many here, including myself, have been clamorinng for out-of-system strategies and tactics for quite some time, and Jane has been adamant that her inside game is the only way she’ll consider going, even dissing and implying that those with differing ideas were not welcome here. And that was just a few weeks ago. So, now you say she has plans. If so, I wish she’d share them, and I hope they’d be about working OUTSIDE the system. But somehow, I doubt it.

Teddy Partridge is upstairs!
CA GOP Ticket Shares One Attribute: Not Voting

Except that we have proportional representation in parts of our government. The House being the most obvious. Many local governments as well.

It was asserted that proportional representation and multi-party systems are the same thing. They’re not. Neither is a dependent condition of the other. First-past-the-post election systems trend toward one-party, but in the U.S. it’s landed largely on two with superficial differences.

I’m saying, they’re not the same thing. You can have proportional representation without vast numbers of parties, and you can have multi-party politics that don’t have proportional representation. They’re incidentally related, not inextricably congruent.

I don’t think we are referring to the same thing. In a PR system parties win seats in parliament (e.g. the Bundestag in Germany) equivalent to the percentage of votes won nationwide. So, if the Greens in Germany win 10% nationwide, they win 10% of the seats in the Bundestag. That is definitely NOT what we have in the House of Representatives: if the Green party in the US wins 10% of the vote nationwide they will get NO seats in the House UNLESS they win a plurality in individual districts. So, if the Greens win a plurality in one district, they win one seat, in two, two seats, etc. But they never do because their support is not concentrated in one district only, it is spread throughout the country. PR enables parties whose support is less than a plurality in an individual district to have influence nonetheless.

The only reason the gay community had any success is there’s no money involved in social issues.

Nancy Pelosi, the liberal House speaker, is heckled by liberals

Me, too. Too much money and power to overcome with an inside game. Internet or no, people on the ground doing naughty things get the attention and make the difference.

Noisy and persistent is not that naughty.