Young WH staffers getting their ideas from MTV. Why am I not surprised?

no longer the “third rail”? everyone ive tried to alarm with this kind of info just tells me – oh they would NEVER touch social security. they wouldnt dare..Americas are like the frog in the pot, by the time we realize the waters boiling, we’re cooked.

All that money to throw around comes from the fact that Pete Peterson as a hedge fund manager has a special tax loophole that means he paid lower taxes the janitors, secretaries, and other regular Americans.

Social Security is indeed in trouble. There is no denying that fact. Truth be told the youth of this nation will be paying for our entitlement programs until they decide that they no longer want to work to feed the beast. Baby Boomers best get while the getting is good because if the next generation will have to work harder and longer for less to first support their elders and then themselves how compassionate do you think they will be?

coulda sworn I heard the scurrying of little roach feet when you flipped this lightswitch Jane

OT

On May 21, Mad Money host Jim Cramer called BP a “buy” even though the stock “is not for the squeamish” given the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. BP shares were trading around $42 at the time of Cramer’s recommendation.

http://www.onn.tv/mad-about-options/bp-plc-bp-trading-strategies-for-a-win/

Does Pete have any money in BP? I think he’s spent his money buying Cramer. Until the leak is filled nobody has any idea what BP’s liability is.

BP plc (NYSE: BP) will change its name to British Petroleum in a desperate attempt to slip the public’s growing negative opinion of the company. The oil firm has spent nearly a decade building the BP name

http://247wallst.com/2010/05/24/bp-plc-to-change-name-to-british-petroluem-release-new-logo/

Given that BP wants to change its name I’m betting that they don’t think the leak will be fixed soon. We don’t know the amount of liability, or the actual amount of oil leaking but Cramer is recommending BP?
Based on what?

You forgot the disclaimer: “This message has been brought to you by the 401(k) salespeople of America.”

Social Security is not in trouble if the federal general fund pays back what it has borrowed from Social Security through “intragovernment transfers”.

Guess what happens if Social Security disappears. Elderly parents come to live in the refrigerator box in their children’s back yard. The youngsters better start getting that guest room ready if they are going to balk at paying into Social Security.

been wondering what twitter hashtag to use for these kinds of posts, maybe #401kSPA would work

There’s no such thing as an independent troll, all trolls are either dependents or puppets.

Hello, troll. Why do you always show up around the same time of day?
Social security is not in trouble. Millionaires just don’t want to pay their fair share now that it is time to do so.

maybe #3rdrail

Go ahead and depend on the government for your retirement, but it’s a risky proposition. Will your children let you live in squalor? Or will your children move in with you, making a wage that serves primarily to keep you in the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed?

We are bankrupt. You are dreaming if you believe there is some secret stash of funds out there waiting to fund your retirement. Those younger than yourself know this to be true.

Pete is involved with Blackstone how nice so even with a government bailout his over $35 a share stock is now traiding at $10.24 a share.

http://www.google.com/finance?hl=en&q=blackstone%20group%20&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=we

Lets put this in terms Obama can understand Pete the guy your going to for Social Security advice because he is such a money expert has despite the bank bailout seen his stock drop more than 2/3 in value.
I’m pretty sure even the Las Vegas and Florida housing markets are not experiencing a 2/3 drop in value.
Why don’t you talk to some people who foretold the housing crisis Mr President and ask what they would do to fix the National Debt?

“…t Cramer is recommending BP?
Based on what?”

Based on “they own this place”…Durban

You are delusional if you think that you will ever get your hands on someone else’s money and have them fund your retirement. How well has that worked out for Greece, et al.

Or perhaps you are an advocate of Woody Allen and Thomas Freidman’s ‘dictatorship for a year’, “if only we could be more like China’ nostalgie du fascisme.

We have plenty of money its amazing how fast France recovered after they redistributed the Wealth with the guillotine.
Was France ever stronger than right after the revolution under Napoleon?

It’ll never happen. At worst, the COLAs will be reduced. Funny thing is about young people, they tend to get old…

Who watches MTV anymore? No one has watched it for ages.

The secret stash of funds you allude to is sitting in offshore accounts of members of the Bush family, the Cheneys, Gates, Rumsfeld, Clinton, and Emanuel families, and the other thieves who have looted our government for the past thirty years.

Removing the cap on social security income taxed wouldn’t make a dent in the lifestyles of the people who’ve driven us to bankruptcy but it would go a long way to instituting some distributive justice to what at one time (before Reagan there was a government here, you know) was a society with some sense of fair play.

You are delusional if you think that you will ever get your hands on someone else’s money and have them fund your retirement. How well has that worked our for Greece, et al.

Greece’s problem is they did not tax the rich enough. If Greece cuts entitlement spending during a recession then only fast, huge foreign spending on tourism and exports can save them. Nobody is predicting a quick economic turn around though.

Cramer has pushed BP for months, even though BP is pretty heavily debt-laden. He claims his foundation (or whatever it is) holds shares and that he monitors it very, very closely.
Anyone taking advise from this yahoo deserves to lose all their investment. His track record sucks.

Apparently someone in the WH still remembers when MTV was cool.

It’s quite a leap from “it”s risky to trust SS for your retirement” to “therefore let”s cut it.”

But it seems the community does not trust you on this. It would be good for you to connect a real facebook or other identity account so people can know these thoughts belong to a person and not a paid sock puppet.

Them’s the rules.

We should take him off the air guys like him redirect investment from productive stuff like making things to low cost, low safety, higher profit margin more accident/lawsuit prone firms like BP.
Or of course imaginary ponzai schemes like home prices will go up forever.

I will not be getting my hands on someone else’s money, I will be getting my hands on my own money, that I have paid into the system for 40 years.
To compare the system in Greece to the system in the US is apples to oranges.
Now go away, Troll. We know the truth here and your tilted arguments are not persuasive.

How do we know the facebook is of a real person? Not doubting you just curious.

Absolutely. Cramer’s type of show (all of them) needs to go off air. It’s perfect for the internet, not for television.

he spent $1,124,987 on MTV advertising

Apparently Petersen thinks they do. 2008 ain’t that long ago.

Paid sock puppet?

Sorry, I live beyond the beltway where common sense rules the day. It IS risky to trust SS. Who knows how the ‘powers that be’ will decide how to move forward….but let me venture to guess that there will be no golden collectivist utopia awaiting us in our golden years. Best hope that you have raised competent caring children who will gladly sacrifice their wages and livelihood to care for you. To lower their standard of living to benefit you. If you are alone, without children and you’re dependent on the kindness of strangers or the government I think that you will more than likely be SOL.

The times, they are definitely a-changin’. The welfare state is unsustainable, and liberalism as we have known it for decades is on the defensive. Lifetime ideologies are beginning to crumble. Personality constructs are at risk.

Sorry Jane, but that’s the way things will go if you continue to aid and abet our current corrupt political class.

LOL Like that will ever happen.

This is all about the manufacturing of consent. It is the thinktank version of astroturfing or the veal pen. We really should invent a name for it, something like Echo Centers, Institutes for Hire, or stinktanks.

This libertarian troll is tiresome.

Just keep telling yourself that paradise awaits you in your golden years. You may be lucky enough to be one of last to reap the benefits of your own labor but my kids are already in the hole. How many compassionate and caring young workers are out there with good, high-paying jobs that will not only allow them to live a life as good as their parents gave them AND pay for your retirement?

I like StinkTanks.

The times, they are definitely a-changin’. The welfare state is unsustainable, and liberalism as we have known it for decades is on the defensive.

Right answer the question who needed a bailout first the our Government or the banks? If Greece doesn’t pay who will need a bailout our Government or the Banks.
Do not even try and spin this Liberalism is failing crap. Your side failed your side took the bailout.

Troll, it is not a legal requirement to join social security. Since the far right Republicans and the Birchers and the Libertarians hate big government, perhaps they could all just not join social security (what a great political statement this would make, no? leaving social security en masse) and then there would be more for the rest of us.

Couple of days ago, I stumbled upon this story by Ellen Brown. It has been going around the shadier conspiracy forums for years, but now that Ms Brown has picked it up, I am more inclined to believe it. Apparently, there are shitloads of hidden cash in the books, something called a Comprehensive Financial Annual Report.

Finance is not my forte, maybe somebody else can make some sense out of it.

What fucking part of “we have already paid for our Social Security” do you not understand?

No person here has claimed there is a “paradise awaits you in your golden years” other than you.

You are obviously far to young to understand what the hell you are talking about.

Tiresome indeed.

This libertarian troll is tiresome

Libertarianism is tiresome. It is adolescent. It offers no solutions. It ducks social responsibility in the name of independence when it wants, as with Social Security, but then expects the social benefits it wants, like public safety and infrastructure to magically be there for its use. The simplest argument really is to direct them to libertarian paradises like Somalia where they can live the dream.

You cannot rebut my arguments. What evidence do you have that the future of a collectivist nanny state will survive long enough for you to enjoy retirement. Boomers are about to become a HUGE drain on our economy. Will our sons and daughters be willing to forfeit their futures to subsidize our golden years or will they help us along by utilizing the ‘comparative effectiveness panels’ and ‘end of life counseling’ to hasten our departure from this planet?

We can only pray for their compassion or have had the foresight to provide for ourselves and be dependent on no one.

Life is not fair.

Oh, but they’re entitled so you can bet yer sweet bippy they’ll be the first in line when they hit the minimum age to draw SS. We’re also supposed to register for Medicare prior to our 65th birthday, something like 90 days prior iirc. They’ll be on the phone that day.

I have no side.

I’m not ever gonna try to rebut your “arguments.” I leave bullshit in the pasture where it belongs.

Like I said this morning, I’m just gonna move on.

adios troll

You are dreaming if you think that we will be able to sustain our entitlement state for that long. What do you care though….you’ll be dead and gone by then…if you are lucky.

When the producers are outnumbered by the consumers what happens next? This sorry show is playing out in Europe as we speak. Turn a blind eye to it all but know that the youth of this country are paying attention.

I would gladly choose public safety and infrastructure and take a pass on hoping that the state will do right by me after I have exited the work force.

I do not look to the state to be the be all end all of my well-being, unlike so many collectivist, Utopian, progressives.

If progressives cared one iota for the future of our children they would be advocating that the government live within its means. But no, we have a boomer population that is the most selfish and ‘entitled’ as I have ever seen.

Indie, what about the corporate wel-fare state how long will it last?

How about the military wel-fare state how long will it last?

Liberals did not endorse or have the power to ship the USA mfg base to China.

Guess what class of people sent MFG Base of the USA to China and other places where cheap labor exist? That would be the class of rich republicans.

Indie? I agree life is not fair, but the ignorant will not be tolerated in this new world.

FDR will always be considered a much greater president than Reagan and Bush.

Indie? the last time I check, young people don’t vote like their moms and dads, and all the smart politicians know this.

Yes, Burying your head in the sand always works best when confronted with uncomfortable situations.

Tell me, do you have children?

Yes, if only we could find that hidden ‘National Treasure’ all of our problems would be solved!

Yes that is why we are living in a Libertarian moment.

Could this be true? Pete does not pay the same income tax as ordinary people? That would be shocking. I am sure Peterson pays no income tax. But was he taxed on the $800 million he got from the destruction of WTC 7. He had the mortgage. He could have donated the profits from the murder of 3000 people on 9-11. Ha ha.

It turns out, a loophole in the current tax code allows hedge fund and equity fund managers (like Mr. Peterson) to pay taxes on their compensation at a much lower rate than ordinary workers. While middle income workers like school teachers and firefighters typically face a 25 percent income tax rate, Peter Peterson and other fund managers get to pay the much lower 15 percent capital gains tax rate on the tens of millions they earn each year.

According to The Washington Post, Mr. Peterson was actively lobbying Congress to ensure he and his ilk are not taxed like ordinary workers. The Post reported that Mr. Peterson’s efforts apparently paid off: He and his fellow fund managers will continue to enjoy special tax breaks. As Pete Peterson says, he doesn’t need his Social Security.

Thank you – I had missed this. A very interesting read!

Shorter Indie: blah, blah, blah

Longer version: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

Indie we are living in the moment Lincoln most feared, the moment when Corporations own the USA govt.

Libertarian religion died a long time ago, you just did not get the memo.

Indie what politian is going to campaign in the USA talking about killing Social Security, killing public schools, killing food stamp programs, Medicare, Medicade, etc. None of them!

May I add to your list? Lifting all child labor laws, in fact lifting the laws regarding sex with children…

Unfortunately, millions of young people. The type of people who are willing to accept what they see on TV without confirming or refuting advertising through independent research.

I’m 26, can’t stand MTV, but know dozens of friends that just won’t miss an episode of “16 and Pregnant” or “The Hills”.

Libertarians accusing liberals of being “Utopians.” Cognitive dissonance? Irony writ large? Blatant douchebaggery?

I do not look to the state to be the be all end all of my well-being, unlike so many collectivist, Utopian, progressives.

People aren’t clamoring for a Utopian, progressive bailout. They’re asking for the benefits they were promised under the legislative structure of the Social Security program. I don’t know if you’ve ever bothered to look at the deductions on your paycheck, maybe as a lobbyist you just file a 1099, but on my paychecks the Fed takes out money for Social Security. They take that money with the promise that I’m paying into a plan that will help support me in my retirement.

Why are you having such a hard time with that concept? It’s not a sense of entitlement, it’s asking the Fed to keep their word. Maybe that’s where we’re being delusional; expecting our government to do what they said they would.

I expect my government to be full of liars and cheats. But I feel, just like the people here who you’re trying to argue with, that when it comes to my personal income, my forced payroll deductions and contributions, there’s a line that shouldn’t be fucking crossed. The entire concept of social security is essentially a savings account. I pay into it over the life of my career so I can get it back at the end. How the fuck would you feel if Chase just decided to reduce the money in your savings account by, say, 40%? Wouldn’t feel so hot then, eh Troll? Point Made. Now, in the words of the epic Less Grossman:

[edited by mod] ‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›

[MODNOTE -please attack the ideas, not the commenter, thank you.]

Weak, mod. Weak. I strongly suggest you watch Tropic Thunder, again if you’ve already seen it. Les Grossman did not mean that quote as an attack, but a salutation!

Not every quote from a movie is fit material for a discussion here, but thanks for playing.

=D

For those who need a better understanding of Social Security, may I suggest the following:

Facts that every American should know – the battle for Social Security

Can the Social Security Program go bankrupt?

Social Security online

And…for those who wish to “bash” baby boomers in regards to Social Security, I suggest becoming informed about the fact that former President Reagan increased FICA taxes specifically to deal with future baby boomers benefits. So, the baby boomer generation had to pay for the current retirees at that time AND for their future benefits.

What is happening now is that the “free marketers” want to put the trillions of dollars of social security trust funds into wall street.

Well, since Pete Peterson is always talking about the deficit and “shared sacrifice”, let’s eliminate the tax breaks for private foundations. I’m afraid President Bush had it right; if you’re worried about the deficit, feel free to send in money. Treasury will be happy to cash your check.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=04&year=2010&base_name=philanthropy_is_my_copilot&6

Goofy libertarians, cripes. Never ceases to amaze me how they simply cannot understand that people LENT THEIR MONEY TO the government for SS, and the simple truth is the government doesn’t want to pay it back. So we have this manufactured crisis, apparently easily convincing soft minded libertarians. Hell with them.

Anybody know what Pete Peterson did to get so rich? Inheritance? Weapons sales? Banking Scumbag?

edit, Kris beat me to it, huh.

Oh there it is, a hedge fund manager.

Angry yet?

Thank-you, Jane for pulling together this information on Peterson’s outreach, tentacles infiltrating mainstream discourse.

Similar foundations are springing up to undermine public education, one of the few democratic institutions left. Jeb Bush founded the Foundation for Florida’s Future. In typical Bush form, he magnanimously sucks up tax-free donations to “save” public education by lobbying for charters, vouchers, and teacher’s union busting http://www.stickwithanose.com/2010/04/14/crumbling-solidarity/

For more info on the Billionaires Boys Club see:
http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2010/03/ravitch-on-nclb-corruption-charters-and.html
http://www.stickwithanose.com/2010/05/10/masters-of-the-universe/ and http://www.stickwithanose.com/2010/03/05/diane-ravitch-turns-against-charters/

Reading all off these posts strengthens my standing that the left vs right, your side vs mine is a false argument.

There can be no debate on this forum without some just simply attacking. Throwing out demeaning words like troll and allowing for group think.

Don’t you see that this IS the problem. Open your mind please don’t blindly attack peoples statements because they don’t align with yours. We all should be happy to be proven wrong.

“Social Security is not in trouble if the federal general fund pays back what it has borrowed from Social Security through ‘intragovernment transfers’.”

That’s a mighty BIG “IF” IMO. IF money grew on trees, the general fund would pay back all that $ that has been collected from workers in FICA taxes and spent over the last 50 yrs. on other programs. FAT CHANCE that any of it will be returned to SS once there is nothing in it for elected officials, like buying votes as they’ve done since the 1960′s with the surplus.

“Elderly parents come to live in the refrigerator box in their children’s back yard.”

What backyard? A lot of adult children are unemployed and living off their parents’ SS while residing in their parents’ mortgage free homes. Once the gov’t refuses to continue funding the Ponzi scheme called SS, there will be a lot more homeless than just the Boomers and their dependents.

“The entire concept of social security is essentially a savings account.”

SS was NEVER an individual “savings a/c.” The money deducted from your paycheck goes to pay current retirees the check they receive each month. Any surplus has gone into the general fund since the 60′s and was used to mask the size of each year’s current deficit. Now that there is no longer a surplus, the FICA taxes collected are used to pay current retirees’ monthly checks and the balance must be paid by the general fund ADDING to the yearly deficit.

SS was NEVER “essentially a savings account.” FICA is a TAX on your salary, the same, and in addition to an income tax.

From William Greider:

The biggest lie in Peterson’s story-telling is his refusal to acknowledge the looting aspect of what he proposes. Despite his inflamed rhetoric, Social Security is not broke–it has a huge surplus of around $3 trillion (trillion, not billion). With no changes at all, the trust fund will be solvent for at least another thirty years. In fact, workers retiring now have already paid for their Social Security benefits because they paid higher payroll taxes for the past twenty-five years. I might have a little respect for fiscal crazies like Peterson, Conrad and Gregg if I once heard them state these facts honestly instead of demonizing Social Security recipients.

http://www.thenation.com/article/looting-social-security-part-2

OT, but are any of the women’s rights groups NOW getting ahead of this issue? Seems like all they are doing is congratulating Sestak and Kagan. And SS is a gender issue since a greater proportion of elderly women live in poverty than elderly men.

If the US Treasury is going to default on its debts that’s a much bigger story. For obvious reasons, none of the Peterson types are saying that they are, they’re just avoiding the question.

Perhaps you’ve got a link that proves this is what the Treasury intends to do? That would be news.

Libertarians accusing liberals of being “Utopians.” Cognitive dissonance? Irony writ large? Blatant douchebaggery?

Good list, but I vote for D) Cognitive impairment due to empathy deficit disorder/sociopathy.

Mr Peterson sure does get around. Although some of those institutions seem poorly named. I was expecting:

Center for the Creation of Poverty
Committee for Revolving Door Exceptionalism
Institute for Sustainable Child Labor
The Peterson Institute for Criminal Insanity
The Final Solution Foundation

I’m paying into a government operated system to support current retirees with the promise that I’ll receive the same benefit when I retire. Conceptually a savings account. The money they’re taking from me now entitles me to money in the future. I’m giving it to them, they’re doing what they do, and later, when I hit a certain age, I’ll get it back.

Everyone is paying it forward. I really don’t see the outrage in that, and the benefit to the nation is huge. If we have to raise the contribution cap so that high earners pay in in a closer approximation of their earned income, then I see no problem with that either since the social stability of the country at large is a necessary precondition for that higher income. It may be true that the high earner doesn’t need the benefit income at the end of her life, but then again it doesn’t harm her either.

Agreed.

All that money to throw around comes from the fact that Pete Peterson as a hedge fund manager has a special tax loophole that means he paid lower taxes the janitors, secretaries, and other regular Americans.

I think you are right. I heard the worlds second richest person Mr. Buffett say that he pays less taxes than his secretary. I commend him for speaking this out of integrity when rest of the group with him do not even say a word on this.

Social security was always in peril in MSM for some reason and for strange unknown reason if nothing was done it somehow hummed along just fine. Social security is a valuable moral endeavor which creates demand in our economy driven by seniors which supports jobs and is one of the support pillars holding our economy still together.

I really cannot understand why someone who is rich is interested in gutting down social security, destroying our economy instead of spending time in figuring out ways to quickly wind down a unjustified IRAQ war and creating jobs by making investments with his money within the country. The latter action will definitely give them more personal satisfaction in my opinion.

Anyway remove caps on social security and drop the intake percentage rates. This is the simplest and most effective way to fix the problem for ever, make our society more noble and spur the economy into high gear.

It IS risky to trust SS.

Trust wall street which cannot stand with federal support, Trust crumbling Banks which cannot repay without FDIC support, Trust medical system which needs a federal mandate on individuals to operate, Trust Tax Cuts given at start of decade to create more and more jobs which transformed our budget surplus to record budget deficits with of-course jobs created not here but in a totalitarian regime.

Social Security in all this mess is the only thing standing proudly, supporting our economy by enabling seniors to create demand and keeping some jobs still available in this recession and BTW making us to proudly proclaim to third world countries that they have an example to follow on how to take care of their weak and infirm and also improve their economy in the process.