President Obama has packed the Debt Commission (also known as the cat food commission) with members who have an overwhelming history of support for both benefit cuts and privatization of Social Security.
The “National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform” is operating in secret over the objections of both parties. John Boehner and John Conyers have both raised concerns that the commission will make recommendations in December that could be passed by a lame duck Congress that doesn’t have to worry about being reelected. They requested that the commission report its findings prior to the election so that the public can have a chance to factor in the recommendations into their voting decisions in the election. The commission denied the request.
As we are seeing with Audit the Fed, it is falling to Judd Gregg — who doesn’t have to worry about being reelected — to raise concerns about “populist pandering,” and he is likely to be the one to refuse unanimous consent and force a cloture vote that will impose a 60 vote hurdle. (The transpartisan support for Audit the Fed we’ve built over the year makes it difficult for anyone with re-election worries to play the Joe Lieberman role, even Joe Lieberman.) Though they have different agendas with regard to the outcome, the concerns of both Boehner and Conyers and the commission’s lack of transparency are well founded.
As we reported at the time, the Obama White House has been interested in cutting Social Security right out of the gate. David Brooks reported that three administration officials called him to say Obama “is extremely committed to entitlement reform and is plotting politically feasible ways to reduce Social Security as well as health spending” in March of 2009. The neoliberal TNR/JournoList set who cheered on the Iraq war and the corporate-friendly health care bill are already lending their support: Privatizing Social Security, No, Cutting Social Security, Si! says Jon Chait.
Chait conflates and confuses two separate statements. Obama has dismantled liberal opposition to many of George Bush’s policies, and whatever he wants to do with Social Security will be accepted by many just because they like him. Matt Yglesias had this to say about Elena Kagan’s nomination to the Supreme Court: “Clinton & Obama like and trust [Kagan], and most liberals (myself included) like and trust Clinton & Obama.” To which Glenn Greenwald rightly responds, “In other words, according to Chemerinksy and Yglesias, progressives will view Obama’s choice as a good one by virtue of the fact that it’s Obama choice. Isn’t that a pure embodiment of mindless tribalism and authoritarianism? ”
What Wall Street wants is to wind up with a good chunk of the Social Security trust fund in its own coffers. Where that intersects with the objectives of the commission remains to be seen, but the fact is that Obama has packed it with people who have a strong history of supporting both reducing benefits and privatization. Even the token “liberals” like Jan Schakowsky have a history of abandoning their strongest principles when the President asks it of them, and Dick Durbin is now telling “bleeding heart liberals” to be open to benefit cuts for the sake of the fiscal responsibility.
Brad DeLong indicates liberal objections may well be overcome by the government guaranteeing any Wall Street losses, but that will irk the libertarians.
In the absence of any transparency with regard to the Commission’s proceedings, this is what we have to go on:
| Member | Open to cutting benefits?
|
Expressed support for privatization?
|
Conflicts of Interest
|
| Erskine Bowles, Chair | YES - Bowles is on the record that the commission will “mess with Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, because if you take those off the table, you can’t get there. | YES - Negotiated deal with Newt Gingrich to raise Social Security retirement age & some privatization under Clinton; deal was stopped by Lewinski scandal. | Sits on the board of Morgan Stanley. Wife Candice is on the board of JP Morgan Chase. Finance, insurance & real estate sector donated over $3 million to his unsuccessful 2004 Senate bid. |
| Alan Simpson, R-WY-ret, Co-Chair | YES - When asked about cuts he would recommend to the President and Congress on CNBC, Simpson said “We are going to stick to the big three,” meaning Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. | YES - “[A]s recently as 2005, Simpson…supported attempts by President George Bush to privatize Social Security by turning part of the pension and insurance program into millions of individual investment accounts, which by now would have lost 20 percent of their value.” (2/27/2010) | Simpson and Peterson were appointed to Bill Clinton’s Bipartisan Commission on Entitlement Reform in 1994. Both voted to recommend partial privatization of Medicare, and raising Social Security age of eligibility to 70, Simpson awarded “Economic Patriot” award by Peterson’s Concord Coalition in 1996. |
| Ann Fudge | Unknown | Unknown | Board member on the Council of Foreign Relations, where Peterson is Chairman Emeritus and Robert Rubin is Director/Co-Chair, fundraiser for Obama campaign, Novartis Board of Directors |
| Alice Rivlin | YES - Co-author with OMB director Peter Orszag of a Brookings report titled “Restoring Fiscal Sanity” advocating $47 billion in entitlement cuts, including an “increase in the retirement age under Social Security” and “more accurate inflation adjustments to Social Security benefits.” | Unknown | Board member with Pete Peterson on Committee for a Responsible Budget, Former board member with Peterson of Public Agenda (Peterson gave them $500,000 in 2009), Advisory Council member of Robert Rubin’s Hamilton Project, Senior Fellow at the Economic Studies Program at the Brookings Institute (position funded by Peterson Foundation/Concord Coalition donations). |
| John Spratt (D-SC) | Yes - “House Budget Committee Chairman John Spratt of South Carolina and his counterpart in the Senate, Kent Conrad of North Dakota….are promoting a “grand bargain” in which a bipartisan commission enacts spending caps on social insurance as the offset for current deficits.” (2/23/2009) | Yes - “Spratt favors supplementing Social Security with a private savings plan that would either be mandatory “or else so attractive that everyone would sign up for it.” He also advocates investing about 20 percent of the Social Security trust fund in the stock market.” (4/7/1998, per Lexis) | |
| Andy Stern | Unknown – Previously opposed to cuts, but said recently that entitlement programs “need to be re-examined”. | Expressed support for of “the possibility of add-on universal private accounts.” | |
| Dick Durbin (D-IL) | YES - Durbin admonished “bleeding heart liberals” to be open to program reductions to restore fiscal balance. | Unknown | |
| David M Cote | Likely – Cote is a Republilcan. | Unknown | CEO of defense contractor Honeywell. The defense industry has consolidated itself into a few big players, and they see their financial futures in competition with social safety net programs for government dollars. They won big when 9/11 blew the lock off the Social Security “lockbox.” |
| Paul Ryan (R-WI) | YES - Ryan’s recently released budget plan calls for “enormous tax cuts for the affluent and “very large benefit cuts… in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.” | YES - Ryan proposes to give people under age 55 the choice of opting out of Social Security into privatized personal accounts. | Ranking minority member on House budget committee. |
| Jeb Hensarling (R-TX) | YES – On Hardball, “Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX) argued that to balance the budget Congress needed to consider reducing Social Security spending for yet-to-be-retired beneficiaries.” (2/2/10) | Yes - In a 2005 Congressional hearing, said that “the trust fund has already been raided 59 different times,” but that “with the exception of the great depression there has never been a four year consecutive period where the stock market has declined.” If allowing people to invest in half their Social Security in a personal account will “give them greater retirement security,” he said, “why wouldn’t we choose that plan?” | Second ranking minority member on House budget comittee |
| Dave Camp (R-MI) | Likely – Says he doesn’t want to cut current retirees’ monthly checks, but Diamond-Orszag plan being pushed by the Obama administration cuts benefits for future retirees who are now under 55. | Yes - “He was a strong supporter of Bush’s proposal to create private investment accounts within Social Security, despite the backlash the plan encountered,” per CQ Healthbeat, 2/2/09 (Nexix). Also a signatory to Republican Main Street Partnership 98-RMSP3. | Ranking minority member, Ways & Means Committee |
| Xavier Becerra (D-CA) | No | No | |
| Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) | No | No | |
| Judd Gregg (R-NH) | Yes - Gregg’s plan “would reduce the traditional guaranteed
retirement benefits for today’s workers. ” (USA Today, 7/27/98, Nexis) |
Yes - Gregg’s solution to “Social Security’s fiscal problems” included “large-scale privatization” and raising the eligibility age to 70 by the year 2029. | Ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee |
| Tom Coburn (R-OK) | Yes - “There are only three things you can do with Social Security,” Coburn said. “You can raise taxes on Social Security, you can allow option-out into private accounts or you can delay retirement age…I’m not for raising taxes on Social Security when you fix it other ways.” (4/25/10)
|
Yes - “Coburn called for creation of private accounts that would keep Congress from spending the money.” (Oklahoman, 11/26/04, Nexis) | |
| Mike Crapo (R-ID) | Likely – Co-sponsor of the DeMint-Crapo Amendment, which would have “made no changes to the benefits of those Americans born before January 1, 1950.” Like Dave Camp, implied benefit cuts to those born afterwards. | Yes - DeMint-Crapo Amendment would have “provided a voluntary option for younger Americans to obtain legally binding ownership of a portion of their [Social Security[ benefits…I believe that individuals have the right to make decisions about their own money.” | |
| Max Baucus (D-MT) | Likely – Baucus said he was open to discussion if Bush would take privatization off the table | Unknown | Chairman of the Senate Committee on Finance, tapped by Reid to lead the battle against President Bush‘s privatization of Social Security. But according to Yglesias, “the Democrats’ only real victory of the last five years–stuffing the administration on Social Security–came after Harry Reid explicitly ordered Baucus not to negotiate with the White House.” |
| Kent Conrad (D-ND) | Yes - “House Budget Committee Chairman John Spratt of South Carolina and his counterpart in the Senate, Kent Conrad of North Dakota….are promoting a “grand bargain” in which a bipartisan commission enacts spending caps on social insurance as the offset for current deficits.” (2/23/2009) | Yes – “I think there is a kernel of a good idea with individual accounts because we do need to find a way to get a higher rate of return on funds invested in Social Security. But I cannot support a plan that is financed by massive new debt.…This administration is not collecting the taxes that are due now. Hundreds of billions of dollars a year that are owed that are not being paid. We should do that. That would give us a new revenue stream that could be applied to individual accounts and the other parts of the budget deficits that are hurting the country.“ (This Week, February 13, 2005, Nexis) | Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. |




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I miss W.
Thank you, Jane.
FWIW I do not appreciate assholes that don’t pay SS on 100% of their income calling what I have been paying 35 years for (every nickle subject to SS withholding) an “entitlement”.
Got a new name for our president:
Fuckin’ Obama.
Thought we’d get somebody better than Fuckin’ Cheney/Shrub. Guess not.
this is EXTREMELY bad
Right on.
*waving*
Hi, sadly
hi guy….very disheartening news about my farm loan…i need a miracle
The “entitlement” drives me crazy, too. I guess maybe the teabaggers were correct when they had signs saying “hands off Social Security” and “don’t touch my Medicare.” Sorta scary.
Exactly how I feel. It drives me crazier. (I started out crazy)
For folks looking for easy-to-understand articles debunking the whole “we must destroy Social Security in order to save it” crap, see the work of Irwin Kellner:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-social-security-isnt-going-broke
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/social-security-isnt-broken?siteid=mktw&dist=nwtam
I’m not sure if this will be a popular opinion here at FDL, but what about means-testing for SS benifits.
I have heard stories of some very wealthy people who turn 65 and start collecting their $1000 a month, even though their investment income is 10 times that much.
They clearly don’t need the benifit, even though they’ve paid in for 50 years.
I’d go along with means testing as long as it was set up properly.
I have read that many who are still serving in Congress are collecting their SS. Shameful.
So liberals are supposed to mollified if any stock losses are made up by being taxed again to make up the difference? That’s some seriously stupid liberals we got there.
That’s an indispensable chart, nice work. No doubt we’ll be able to fill it in even more over time.
There’s a really good essay by Paul Krugman on the matter of SS Privatization in “The Economists’ Voice”
Chapter 13 to be specific.
And, as luck would have it the chapter can be read on Google Books.
Confusions About Social Security by Paul Krugman.
Obama knows that the American public is distracted, disinterested and basically terminally ignorant of what is going on in the world. He also knows that he doesn’t have to worry about a compromised, complicit and compliant MSM educating or enlightening the public. Aside from some blogs how many American people have a clue about what’s going on? Obama has a green light to do what he likes because no one challenges his Republican lite policies.
The US government revised the poverty formula recently and discovered that one in five older Americans lives below the poverty level. Another study shows that one in four single women over 75 live below the poverty line.
Alan Simpson, Obama’s choice for co-chair of the catfood commission dismissed the letters he is getting from older Americans, begging him to not cut benefits:
“These old cats 70 and 80 years old who are not affected in one whiff. People who live in gated communities and drive their Lexus to the Perkins restaurant to get the AARP discount. This is madness.”
Just like Reagan attacked the social safety net by smearing the poor with his racist “welfare queen” tales, Simpson is bashing older Americans in order to rip the net further. These sociopaths will not be satisfied until people are starving in the streets.
Make no mistake about it. The elites are out to rip off grandma and grandpa, who spent their lives working hard and living by the rules. This cannot stand.
Obama has crossed all red lines.
No money and no votes coming from this househould.
Baucus will turn toward privatization as soon as the Wall Street bids are significant enough. The only question, from an odds maker standpoint is whether Xavier Becerra or Jan Schakowsky are worth additional lobbyist investments.
Of course, he did. That was the point. They can always find money for their endless imperial wars, for tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, for a corrupt Wall Street, and for a bloated military, but Social Security? that’s for ordinary Americans, hence unimportant, besides they haven’t looted it yet.
Will Social Security reductions be “The Tipping Point”?
I have been waiting for “The Tipping Point” for a couple of years now.
Why don’t you start supporting green alternatives to Obummer instead of helplessly complaining. He ain’t going to give you a seat at the table. He is a fucking liar and a republican plant as are most his socalled liberal supporters! His supporters are all neocon dems that support the Iraq war! We were completely stupid to ever support him!
Obama is like General Sherman, laying waste to all of Progressiveland.
Let me guess. It intersects with “Billionaires for No Tax Increases”. Or maybe with the interests of Blackrock Securities and its executives.
Informing the public about who Pete Peterson is and how his interest in the deficit is not so public spirited might help. Of course the 401(k) salespeople have prepared the ground for two decades by telling folks in their presentations that Social Security is going away so you need to invest in a 401(k).
The only thing that you need to understand about Obama. Bringing back Alan Simpson is one for the ages.
Remind me again what the Greens stand for.
I’m not as worried about this as the rest of you are, and I don’t think it is a plot to do away with social security, which is in any event politically untouchable. There are a number of technical points that have to be sorted out. One has to do with the calculation of the indexing of benefits to inflation (when there is some). It is well-known (to economists at least) that the Laspeyres type index of which the CPI is one imparts an upward bias to the inflation rate. It is not huge, but it is real. I personally don’t have any problem with giving the old folks, of whom I am one, a bit extra, but the case can be made that it gives too much. As I said, it is a technical point.
The non-technical point is that having raided the SS fund to pay for Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the fund is going to start running a cash-flow deficit in two years, or about three and a half years ahead of schedule. In principle the funds should be there, since we paid for the kitty with our taxes. However, they have been spent, so somebody else’s taxes have got to be raised to make good the government’s debt to its people. I think this is where the rubber hits the road.
The Commission is in effect in a tight spot. The money got spent, and they are going to have to own up to the fact that you can pay your taxes earlier or later, but unless the government defaults on its debt, they have to be paid. To tell people that their SS went to Iraq and the top one tenth of one percent of income-earners is not going to go down well.
And it is not something they can hide.
great question,and good day!
The reason social security has lasted so long, is that it was designed for everyone. “Poor people’s programs” eventually get cut back and often discarded because the are “not working” or are “too expensive,” when often neither statement is true.
Reagan went after the poor by demonizing them. If everyone receives an entitlement the demonization tactic usually backfires. It is (or was) conventional wisdom that you can screw the poor but don’t screw with the middle class. This is why Fox News channels middle-class anger toward the poor, blaming Acorn, an organization dedicated to helping the poor, for the financial crisis.
Means testing would probably be the end of Social Security.
Start treating these guys as if they were Republicans of the 70s and 80s, and demand concessions in return for any support. Then withhold support if they don’t come through. They’re not our friends.
We’d get more out of them that way – and maybe we can actually get a left-wing party started, to replace the Democrats (who are now in the same place as the Rs were, tirty or forty years ago).
Going after Social Security is pillaging the last source of cash left in the country. Plain and simple. It is revolting that we were told 30 years ago we needed to pay in more than the system needed for all those 30 years so the money would be there later. Later is now. It is time to tell them, in no uncertain terms,
You.
Can’t.
Have.
That.
Money.
I agree with everything you said except the “lite” part.
Who would do this challenging? What kind of challenging would they do? What would be the probable outcome?
What’s the best case scenario for that challenging? Making sure he’s a one-term President? Would Obama even care about having a second term, if he can dismantle our liberal political institutions in one-term?
I’m seriously asking for your opinion.
“Brad DeLong indicates liberal objections may well be overcome by the government guaranteeing any Wall Street losses, but that will irk the libertarians.”
They need to keep their repulsive hands off our money.
This is too true, hence the reason that the propaganda surrounding it became, “It’ll be bankrupt before you ever see anything out of it.”
It makes it a de facto “Poor people’s program.” Something that you’ll never see benefit from, so why bother keeping it around. Really savvy bit of propaganda, now how do we undo it?
Another great Simpson quote from a recent phone interview:
The Obama administration has the knives out for social security. Appointing a man like Simpson is a disgrace and an insult to older Americans everywhere.
Privatizing does not immediately “do away” with SS. Instead it makes it a profit vehicle for Wall Street. Just as the health insurance profitability act will lead to changes that make other large corporations more wealthy. Saying that mistakes were made but the problem need to be fixed on the backs of those on SS simply puts the future of SS seriously in jeopardy. Wild price fluctuations and bad bets will wipe out personal investments for corporate profits.
hah hah hah
I agree. The question is only which taxes to raise. The point of the extra money we have paid in over the last 26 years or so was to cover up the enormous deficits that were run up in the Reagan era by cutting taxes on the rich.
The correct solution is to raise taxes on the rich. I think we should add two new brackets at the top, one for people over $350K and one for people over $750K. The rates should go up enough to cover the social security deficit, and to help pay for the Medicaid deficit.
I have no problem with the word entitlement.
From Wiki:
Entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits because of rights or by agreement through law. A “right” is an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an “entitlement” is therefore a provision, made in accordance with legal foundation within the greater society. Typically, entitlements are laws based on concepts of principle (“rights”) which are themselves based in concepts of social equality or enfranchisement.
In a casual sense, the term “entitlement” refers to a notion or belief that one (or oneself) is deserving of some particular reward or benefit [1]—if given without deeper legal or principled cause, the term is often given with pejorative connotation (e.g. a “sense of entitlement”).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement
Of course, if you think the casual sense applies, maybe. But to me, SS is an entitlement, by virtue of the pact and our contributions.
You can eschew the word, and abandon the payouts too, I suppose.
As to the commission itself, I am aghast at the mix. WTF does Obama represent, especially here with SS?
Answer: He and Congress are a microcosm of the whole body politic, as that body relates to Nature. That is: DC is to us as we are to Nature. Very uncomfortable, but face it. They are the mirrors of our souls.
Pogo knew it.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
So Clinton worked on this in 1997, then Bush tried it and now Obama is retreading the same ground as Clinton and Bush. For the past 20 years the policies are the same, just the names change. However, it looks like POTUS is becoming more and more powerful so whatever POTUS wants, POTUS gets (that’s the justification for putting Kagan on SCOTUS anyway) and as such these proposals actually get off the ground. It took Clinton to kill Glass-Steagall, Bush to weaken Constitutional protections and now Obama to hand Social Security to Wall Street.
Here’s an article on Bush’s Social Security plan to hand it over to Wall Street:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/07/AR2006020701865_pf.html
I wonder how many people who opposed Bush’s plan will now defend Obama enacting Bush’s plan based on a partisan Cult of Personality. I guess we’ll see based on how much Democratic opposition Harriet Miers gets (I mean Kagan).
Thanks too for that table on commission members. It goes to what a sham and echo chamber commissions, even bipartisan commissions can be. It’s just so much more kabuki.
Perhaps you know, then, what’s going on in those secret Commission meetings?
and also see:
war in iraq, afghanistan, drones and special forces in pakistan
bases everywhere
slim to none taxes on the rich
No possible way I can support privatization with the terrible lack of transparency irt Wall Street. This is awful.
if people paid in, they should get it. take away the caps for what you can put in.
Yep, they have seen the surveys of younger Americans expressing their doubts that social security will even be there for them, because they’ve been fed the propaganda for so long that social security is going broke. Now they will use those doubts to make the fears a fait accompli. “See, kids, social security means higher taxes and it still won’t be there for you anyway. Let’s just raise the retirement age to 73 and reduce benefits by 50%. Oh, by the way, we’re introducing this nice VAT, because we must. This new tax won’t hurt because we promise to lower payroll taxes — someday soon.”
That is really their tactic.
So, they had to reanimate Alan Simpson? What’s the average age of these members? Close to retirement, I’ll be bound. They’re probably set as far as having to worry about paying medical bills. And clearly they like the idea of being entitled to the entitlements as long as the entitlements go in their sack.
The up and coming generations on the other hand are not going to like it when they realize the baby boomers are the source of the giant sucking sound emptying their wallets to support the post-war anomaly.
It is time to get rid of entitlements. Retirement should be saved for by the individual, from one’s own pay. Its called planning for the future. Health insurance should be paid for by the individual, from ones own pay. It is called individual responsibility. I truly believe that the idea of retirement should be dismissed.(unless one pays his own way.) The idea of the taxpayer paying for perpetual retirement and health insurance for anyone leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. My father is 85 and goes to work every day..its time we all joined him. Productivity keeps one young and invigorated.
Makes perfect sense to me. It’s either SS or cutting Defense spending. Incumbent Dems know: for all their whining (that’s sniveling or complaining in a peevish, self-pitying way), Progressives ALWAYS vote the party ticket in Nov. But, cut defense spending & Republican leaning Democratic voters will ALL vote Republican.
Sorry to say it, but I believe Jane is the example for this one. Jane understands & communicates more clearly about the failings of Obama & team AND this Congress than ANYONE I’ve read. Does anyone believe, come Nov., Jane will vote Republican to oust them? Sure, she’ll be the fiercest fighter to clobber them in the primaries, but come Nov. ….
The Dem. Party of ideals is DEAD, folks! “Clarence Thomas” Obama put the final stake in its heart, it breathes no more.
good grief!
It wasn’t boomers, it’s our money. It was the government.
“Retirement should be saved for by the individual, from one’s own pay. Its called planning for the future.”
That’s what SS is. They just took it and spent it, now they don’t want to pay.
Sure makes on understand the earlier Gregg selection,doesn’t it? Thank you for getting our eyes open……
Horseshit.
I paid more than was required for the 30 years or so, as did every wage earner. Baby Boomers retiring are not the fucking problem. Allowing thieves to steal the money is the problem.
Complete and total.
I’m actually in the group that’s been spoonfed this propaganda.
Most of my peers and colleagues (I’m newly 30 years old, and the age group I’m discussing is ~26 to ~34) repeat the, “I’m never going to see any of that money.” mantra the very instant the topic of Social Security comes up in any context.
Many of these people saying this are themselves liberals. We’re really about to start facing the brunt of the consequences for Reagan-era propaganda. The people that grew up with it are becoming increasingly politically activated, and their idea of a left-liberal is Bill Clinton.
All I can do is explain to them, when they’ll listen, how the Trust actually works, and that they’re under no risk of such a condition. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to lend out the book that contains the essay I linked to in an earlier comment above.
It does help when the person commenting is in fact a tax paying citizen of the US.
mmmmmm….let me see here. I would love to go to work everyday but I live in Sacramento where the unemployment rate and the foreclosure rates are through the roof. No jobs here.
As for the entitlements, didn’t I pay into Social Security for forty years? Wasn’t that me putting away money for my future? Do you think a private retirement account is any safer with the crooks in charge?
I would love to pay for my health care privately. But since I had breast cancer twice and lost my insure a new policy would cost me over $2000 a month. I live on $1500.00
Congrats on your father making it to work everyday at the age of 85 but many at that age are senile or infirmed.
You live in a dream.
“Brad DeLong indicates liberal objections may well be overcome by the government guaranteeing any Wall Street losses, but that will irk the libertarians.”
That is completely insane. What’s the point of privatizing something if you are having the losses be public. Hasn’t privatizing profits and making the public pay for losses cost us many billions/trillions of dollars already. If something is going to be privatized, then privatized it – don’t do this public/private crap where the public is on the hook. This actually would be a permanent Wall Street bailout since the economy goes in cycles – you are guaranteed (short of hard core market manipulation) that the market will go down at times and as such you are guaranteeing an indefinite number of bailouts…if the market doesn’t go down (sometimes by large amounts), then you’ve really got to worry.
I guess that is the ol’ health care is not a right tune…Your father is certainly blessed to be in good health to that age.
What about Military Vets who come back from duty Handicapp?
What Jobs are 85 year old people going to do in any economy?
FDR and the intelligent elite knew, to maintain a stable america, you need safety nets, and social security is a huge one, just like medicare and medicade.
How many 20 year olds, 30 year olds, 40 year olds, are going to baby sit their kids and their parents? not many!
How productive will a society like the USA be, with the young spending a lot of time taking care of mom and dad?
Social Security has a lot of direct and indirect benefits.
nice try
If people pay into SS, and they do, with NO choice, how in hell, kumari, is THAT an “entitlement”?
At this point, I am assuming you wish to discuss what is being proposed?
Should you bother to answer, the broader question of your “purpose” in making such an asinine statement will be revealed.
Should you not bother responding, clarity will still prevail as to your “reason”.
DW
Hold on there partner. I’ve paid into SS all my life. I want my benefits just like everyone else no matter what my other income is.
It seems to me the baby boom is an actuarial anomaly and that the numbers entitled to benefits in that group is unprecedented. The government has already spent what’s there plus a whole lot more. The direction being taken is a formalization of that fact.
U.S. government employees, btw, had the choice of a civil service retirement pension vs. 401Ks. Those who opted for the former safe road made out well, while the latter group have ended up forced to continue working beyond retirement age.
The government guaranteeing?
Just like they guaranteed the Social Security trust fund?
David Dayen has a fresh cross-post up: Gordon Brown To Step Down As British PM, As Coalition Negotiations Continue
Amen. But don’t say that too loudly around these socialists.
I can’t help but note that it was that perennial conman Alan Greenspan who managed the 1983 SS reform that set up the system of trust funds and surpluses. It was always a sham, a way to enact a regressive backdoor tax on lower and middle income workers. As you say, all the “surplus” money has been spent. It was a truly bipartisan scam. Everybody in Congress and the White House got more money to spend, deficits looked smaller, the national debt looked bigger but a third of that was this fake SS debt. In a few years, SS outflows will begin to exceed inflows. The fairest solution would be to take off income caps and introduce some means testing, but as this would affect the rich it isn’t even on the table. Politicians from both parties don’t want to take it from general revenues because that would crimp how much they could loot for themselves. So that pretty much leaves reducing benefits, raising the retirement age, etc.
I have to note too that if there had been a simple commitment to continue SS payments after 2017 (the original year projected for when outflows would exceed inflows), this would represent the same commitment we have now (and which Obama et al are trying to welch on). The only difference is that politicians would not have had a couple trillion extra spending cash to play, or they would have had to raise taxes overtly, instead of all of this “no new taxes” even as this stealth tax was there all the time.
I’m no expert, but I don’t think that’s how it works. You paid in for 40 years to cover those that got there before you. Once you get to retirement, current workers will be paying to cover you.
Federal employees hired after FERS was initiated under St Ronnie did not have the choice to join the old civil service retirement system. Those who remained with the old system faced having their pension cut by quite a percentage when they started to draw SS. They also faced pension cuts if they retired before 65, which meant many folks would have to work 40+ years before they could retire with a full pension.
We need to make OBAMA KILLING SOCIAL SECURITY Obama’s Waterloo.
Maybe the Tea Party will help.
More libertarian twaddle.
To get back to the basic issue…..no, Wall Street should not be entrusted with our retirement money. Washington has done a lousy job but Wall Street would be worse.
That’s where the tinman’s rant falls apart.
Not even the government can afford to pay out a defined benefit (pension) plan any longer. I speak of the federal government but the same applies to the states. Just look at California.
Froomkin’s point is essential:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/obamas-fiscal-commission_n_565121.html
Tell you what, you anti-socalists can come up with a scheme to pay me all of the money I put into SS plus a reasonable compounded annual interest rate. Add in the money spent on the military, minus say 10 percent and we’ll call it square.
That’s interesting. I wasn’t aware that the pensioners faced cuts when they started getting SSA benefits. Part of my point was that the alternative which the banksters and corporations prefer, 401Ks, had much worse outcomes than the pension.
tinman’s rant ???????
Where’s the documentation to substantiate your claims? Blog posts are not acceptable.
How is any of that relevent? Oh, and so you know, until today I was unaware I was an, “actuarial anomaly”. Been called all kinds of shit. Never that.
The suggestion that the current problem of unprecedented retirements and a shortage of funds is the fault of those that have, through no choice of their own mind you, paid into a gaurunteed benifit program is deeply offensive. Perhaps you are trying to say something other than what I am seeing.
That we can agree upon. Wall Street would turn this into a giant casino with only one set of winners, the house.
If Obama thinks he had a fight over getting health care passed, he hasn’t seen anything. Let him try to cut SS and it will be the death of the Dems. for a generation. Maybe, he doesn’t care and has decided he’s already likely to be a one termer and so what, he figures ( correctly) he can go out and do the Billy Clinton speaking circuit forever at 500K a pop, so screw the rabble. Whatever, he’s already a terrible disappointment & nobody here will be surprised @ anything he does from here on.
Just let me slash governement payrolls and wasteful welfare programs and I think I can swing it.
semantics. I paid into SS for 40 years. Yes or No? Wasn’t that me putting away money for my future? Yes or No? At least, that is how is was explained to me when it was happening. Sure, the folks coming up after me are contributing to my check. (But the boomers did the right thing by not having so many children. I believe in zero population control and only had two children.) Tax the wealthy. That is the very simply answer to this very simply problem. Tax the fucking wealthy.
Doesn’t matter how old they are. THey have their retirement already fully funded, and not by SS, so they don’t care what happens to others.
If you don’t want to touch the military in a serious way there is no possible way to do it. If you do and you want to pay everyone there is still no possible way.
It’s my understanding that the money current federal employees pay into FERS is invested on Wall Street, which I guess one could call a type of 401K.
I was under the old civil service system but quit, not retired, before I reached 55. No pension from the military (14 years) and no govt pension (16 years). I’ll prolly be working til I drop.
What about people who want to retire before they die?
What about all the people whose 401(k)s and IRAs lost 30 to 50 percent of their values in the last couple of years?
Can you understand other people?
WTF do you think SS IS? I contribute from my pay.
Is this stuff rocket science?
Somalia = the libertarian dream in operation
What are “wasteful” welfare programs? Would you like for people who cannot find jobs, are too old or too unhealthy to work to just die and get off your back? I think that our gov’t right now feels that way and it’s horrifying.
Yep that was why I created the chart.
There are 18 members. Four are considered “liberals” (Durbin, Becerra, Schakowsky & Stern). The rest are deficit hawks. There are not enough “liberals” to out-vote the hawks if five are needed.
But with Durbin chiding “bleeding heart liberals” for being unwilling to make cuts, it doesn’t even look like there are four. And those waiting for Schakowsky to oppose the White House over something it wants may have some time on their hands.
So it sounds like you feel ‘entitled’ to your SS money since you paid in for 40 years.
You mean the military and Congress? Because that’s all that’s left uncut.
They won’t kill it in one stroke, they will try to cut it a bit… possibly make it unpopular so that it can be permanently elimited in the future.
The CPI indexing issue is a talking point from Peter G Peterson’s book “Running on Empty“. I’m sure that this talking point has since been spread across establishment media.
But is the CPI claim valid? Just a few years ago(Bush’s privatize SS plan) they were claiming that Social Security was a bad return on investment. Which is it? An overly generous return on investment or bad return on investment. It cannot be both.
Just looking at what the old folks recieve in benefits, it doesn’t seem like a whole lot to me. A number ranging from 800 to 2000 per month.
And many do not believe government statistics such as CPI. That was the topic of one of ubetchaiam’s posts a few days ago. James Galbraith himself railed on government statistics just a few days ago in the Washington Post.
But I do agree that the money got spent, it always does. It certainly could have been invested better than Iraq and banker bailouts but it’s not like you could really “save it” in a lock box. Income taxes are lower when there’s a SS surplus and higher when there’s a SS deficit. The entire issue is about the rich crying that they do indeed have to pay taxes.
Shouldn’t everybody SS covers?
Why is entitled in quotes? Read the definition. I posted it here back in post 41.
SS is like an annuity. Are we entitled to payouts from an annuity we create?
Get off the sneer attitudes toward the word!
Even worse than a backdoor tax, it was outright theft of Social Security Insurance premium payments made by working Americans, used ultimately to finance tax cuts for wealthy Americans.
Those Social Security Insurance premium payment funds were taken, obstensibly loaned to the government which it now seems, has no intention of paying them back.
Our government ‘borrowed’ $1.7 Trillion from the trust fund since 1983, and now they’d like to reframe the situation in order to avoid paying the money back.
There is no Social Security crisis, but there is an obvious moral/ethical crisis in Washington.
Don’t forget the continuing bank bailouts. Kind of like black ops budgeting, expensive and well hidden.
Still, your point is valid.
Yes, just being ironic. See #2, #5 and #9 agreeing that it shouldn’t be called ‘entitlement’.
No biggie.
Exactly so.
That’s the thing – we don’t have a choice about paying into it.
We pay into it, it’s invested in government bonds – not a big payoff, but secure and steady, unlike the stuff Wall Street wants to play with, and it’s supposed to give us a little when we retire.
(My statement says if I work until I’m 67, my full benefit is supposed to be $1300 a month. Now think about living expenses and what they do to that kind of income.)
See #41 saying that it is an entitlement.
What’s going on here?
Give me MY money not that they ever can after inflation makes it worth about 10% of the value we were paying in 20/30 years ago.
I have a bit more than that, and I do have to work, occasionally. I’m well into my 70′s.
The idea that anyone can live on what they get from SS is laughable. If that’s all I had, I would be living under a bridge and cat food would be a luxury.
IIRC my last statement was $1400/month. Won’t be buyin’ many books if I retire at 67.
Thanks for the chart Jane! It beats home exactly how rigged Obama’s deficit commission really is.
As for this:
Well of course they wouldn’t want any populism to affect the commission but what would you bet that Peter G Peterson and Bob Rubin “do lunch” with Alan Simpson & Erskine Bowles?
For my needs, if I had no rent or house payments, I can live well on that approx $1300 quoted above. So the work I need that fills in the blanks is not considerable.
Boy, nobody brought that up when there was a boomer bulge in the payments coming in from the boomers.
EVERYBODY I know feels that way.
Vehemently.
And NONE of them, including my more rightward “leaning” friends, are at all happy with what is going on.
Obama does look to unite many apparently “different” people into a real opposition.
Things are looking “very interesting”, SD.
DW
Yeah, but I didn’t think I was gonna hafta get new body armour this soon.
Fuckin’ Obama.
Environmentalists, immigration and civil rights organizations, unions, peace activists, gay rights groups, progressive bloggers it’s a long list but no one is “leading”, just disparate voices in the wilderness . Americans have become far to frightened and complacement of and about power and authority.
Back to work.
Namaste
Right now I think there is only one person who could tie it all together and make it work and that’s Howard Dean.
Jane,
Your Obama Offshore Drilling ad has received a lot of media attention. How about a similar ad to bring attention to what is going on with this commission?
Yes.
Namaste, SD.
DW
The value of the dollar dropped over the working age in question. FICA payments didn’t factor in this eventuality. They stayed flat for the longest time in said period. There is a shortfall, particularly as it pertains to succeeding generations. If the rich were ever finally taxed progressively, this would be a moot point.
I’d like someone not so attached to the establishment. We’re going to have to do a lot of work outside of the establishment and I don’t know if Dean can pull the more radical leftist into something that has the appearance of being led by the establishment. “Charismatic Leaders” are something we seem to have a problem with.
Word.
Jesse Jackson!
He may have ties but I get the impression that the establishment hates him – because he is hard working, smart and makes them look pathetic. Average people seem to like him a lot – like me – and he has good ideas and knows how to implement them.
I was a Dean supporter from the beginning and feel that he is looking for his place in the political framework.
Kevlar 4 or 5 with a trauma plate, front and back.
A little word on taxing the rich. Frank and Jamie McCourt own the Dodgers and are going through an acrimonious divorce, including issues of who owns (or will get to own and run) the Dodgers. Filings in the divorce case reveal that in 2009 the McCourts had a total income of $108 million.
And paid zero federal taxes.
Back in the 50′s-70′s the top marginal tax rates were between 74% and 91%. That was also the period of our greatest economic growth and best overall standard of living except for the very poor. It was the period of time when the middle class thrived.
Howard Dean might need to work “outside” of the traditional “framework”, Twain, and he would be most welcome to join us. I am not convinced that he is ready, or able, to take a “leading” role in the necessary changes this nation MUST make, unless he severs his ties to certain “others” and becomes truly independent of the Dems.
I am not certain he is, as yet, prepared to do that.
What do you think?
(Always good to “see” you here, Twain, even though I have less time to comment, of late, your perspective is always appreciated and most welcome to mine eyes and heart.)
DW
They’ll do this so secretly nobody will even know it until the checks stop.
I think THIS is why they are doing everything at light-speed,so to speak:
Obama’s space program a dangerous path, says Apollo 13 controller Gene Kranz
They know they’ve used up the earth and want to take everything they possibly can from us peons to get them outta here.
They’ve known it for decades.
Think about it…kill all life in the Gulf of Mexico and not bat an eye; instead 27 more oil leases and endless oil wars. WHY?
gotta go. enjoy
My impression is that he is fairly far “outside” as it is.
If he were inside, surely someone would have the good sense to be using his talents. I have enormous respect for him and his efforts.
So let me get this straight. During the Bush years every time the issue of privatizing social security came up – both Dems and progressives went nuts – and rightfully so. Now Obama wants to do the same thing and it’s okay because many Dems and progressives “like him”??????
The duplicity of this crowd makes the GOP look like pikers.
Would like to see Dean and Jessie Jackson team up to take on the fraud of Obama.
FERS retirement benefits are threefold; a pension, Social Security, and a savings program (TSP), with automatic government contributions. Oonly TSP could be said to be “invested on Wall Street”.
Thanks.
Thank you, Ms. Hamsher, for daring to report this.
I am frankly terrified by the prospect of pension and Medicare cuts; they loom as a death sentence, a condemnation that will thrust me to a fatal depth of poverty: I am 70, disabled and chronically ill, and because my other sources of income were all destroyed forever by the Bush/Obama capitalist economy, I am solely dependent on Social Security and Medicare for however much longer I live.
But I’m not the least bit surprised by this newest betrayal. Under capitalism, elderly and disabled people are unprofitable by definition — that is, we are no longer exploitable for profit — and our awareness of this dread truth (no matter how vague or untutored) is precisely what gave the death-panel scare such power last autumn.
DemocRat or GOPorker, beyond rhetoric there’s no meaningful difference in the two parties, and none whatsoever in how they serve the Ruling Class at our expense, which makes Obama’s organization of this real death panel — and a death panel is precisely what it is — so horribly predictable.
Though I voted for Obama, I’ve been calling him “Barack the Betrayer” for some time now on my blog:http://lorenbliss.typepad.com/loren-bliss-outside-agitators-notebook/
My guess is that Dean is and has been far too honest to be “respected” on the “in” side and that his talents pose more a threat to the status quo than either the Democrats or their MONEY people can stomach, but Dean must make a public and very deliberate break “from” the “establishment” and the prevailing wishy-washiness of the Dems.
To remain in their camp any longer is only to compromise himself and whatever worth he might be able to offer to the non-partisan (DEM-REP) people of this nation.
If he wants to lead, then he, first, must follow …
It is dangerous for us to make assumptions about the intent of members of the political class, especially now, as they will tell us whatever we want (and need) to hear and then, they will, even Kucinich, go behind closed doors to conduct “business as usual”.
Forgive my skepticism, Twain, but Dean’s continuing politeness and silence, in the face of dire and grim reality, is bothersome to me.
He does have some small “platform” in his name recognition, but his aloofness, as I perceive it, from the day-to-day reality of most human beings, does not auger well for his courage or his resolve. He cannot coast, he must get out and push with the rest of us.
DW
Ann Fudge is on the Board of Directors of Novartis (the Swiss drug company)?
Well, I guess Medicare drug negotiations are off the table. We’ll have to cut spending (or tax) somewhere else to find that $300+ billion over the next decade.
Where the money can come for is easy… expand the new Medicare unearned income tax so Social Security taxes are likewise collected for interest, dividend and capital gains income. While we’re at it, lift the $106,000 SS FICA cap (Clinton lifted the Medicare FICA cap in the 90′s). If you really want to take it to the next level, as supply siders Art Laffer and Stephen Moore have recently suggested in a flat tax proposal (and isn’t FICA the original flat tax?), start taxing unrealized capital gains. Between those three steps you’d raise hundreds of billions of additional revenue annualy, without raising taxes on the working class or increasing existing tax rates. But I’m a functional finance guy, all this is a waste of time when the U-3 unemployment rate is at 10%. I’d use the above proposals not to supplement existing payroll taxes but to replace them.
And what will these people do exactly? The put pressure how, and to what end? What’s the best case scenario? Obama ends up as a one-termer? Do you think Obama legitimately cares enough about serving a 2nd term to completely abandon his ideological track?
Again, seriously asking for your opinion.
This old cat – 76 next September if my chf lets me make it, gets socked $123.00 monthly for medicare A & B, leaving me $690 a month. Glad I know how to cook beans and rice.
Americans are also far too ignorant and defensive. Try talking to some of your so-called Democratic friends (who are reasonably well educated) about BHO, and it’s almost guaranteed that they’ll become defensive and angry by any charge that BHO’s nothing more than Bush in drag. I’ve approached a number of Democratic friends – trying different ways of speaking about it – and have not gotten very far at all. Most are quite complacent and think BHO is the bestest ever.
Sad, really, and they won’t “get it” until it’s all gone. Then they’ll probably be persuaded to blame it on Bush or someone else. The left is every bit as brainwashed as the right is. Hard to get through to either side.
However, if we could have advertising about this, it might help.
I also work with some folks who are in their late 70s and early 80s. HAVE to work and are still quite reliant on the pittance they get from Soc Sec. These people paid into Soc Sec for many years. One lady I know lost ALL of her pension when Montgomery Wards went bankrupt some years ago (betcha the CEO walked away with kazillions). She’s almost 80; still works nearly full-time; has a small pension from another company and soc sec. Owns her house outright and is very frugal. She is finding it very hard to make ends meet and can only do so by getting occassional financial help from her kids (which she hates but has no choice). Lucky for her, she has kids, and those kids CAN help her out.
If her Soc Sec is reduced in any way, she’s going to have a huge problem. AND… she’s STILL paying into it, even as she’s getting some out of it.
And she’s “lucky” in comparison to some. At least she’s healthy and of sound enough mind to keep working, and she has some other resources. But… THIS is what it comes down to?
It’s just awful. Awful and disgusting. And it would be so easy to “fix” Soc Sec simply by raising or eliminating the income “cap.”
And yes: this ain’t no entitlement for me, either. I PAID (and continue to PAY) into it. So angry when I hear that bull hockey LIE. Soc Sec is NOT an “entitlement.” We PAID for it. Give us what we deserve.
&^%$#
Yes, whereohwhere is Bible Spice to talk about Death Panels for Seniors when it’s truly merited???
This is pretty dire, and I guess, just like the oil gushing away unabated in the Gulf of Mexico, the “average” American won’t “get it” until it either affects them directly or their family members.
Really annoying how indifferent, induldged, dumb and in denial MOST citizens are (left, right and in between). No one’s getting just how badly they’re being ripped off.
People need to be made to understand that it’s like putting money in the bank and then the bank refuses to give it to you when you need it. It’s called critical thinking and Americans don’t do it well.
Jane,
We need to get the progressive liberal pundits talking to the experts that are progressive liberals so that when the pundits write they do not go out on a limb that is “iffy”.
Your fear of a screwing of social security is well placed, but your reasons as given in your chart do not support your point.
“increase in the retirement age under Social Security” and “more accurate inflation adjustments to Social Security benefits” are just logical – the system dies if increased longevity is ignored as we get to work 40 years and retired for 100 in the next century – and that blows up the math. Likewise CPI made more exact – which affects only the annual increase in the benefits already being paid as the credit accumulation math uses the wage index and not the CPI, gets us back to seniors sharing in productivity increases via the wage index but then not losing them via CPI adjustments after retirement – the CPI adjustments are not meant to give Seniors a constantly better than the rest standard of living – which is what results of the CPI calculation is biased upwards.
The invest in something other than gov bonds is a liberal idea – 20% in the stock market via index funds is a modest variation – which would end the nonsense that tax increases to repay those gov bonds are not needed since the bonds are worthless. It makes the gov deficit clear and does not allow the Social Security surplus/Trust Fund to hide it – in effect financing the Bush tax cuts for the rich – I want the Bush tax cut bonds in the SS Trust fund repaid, and buying non-government assets forces that.
The Clinton “401k like” payroll savings plan was not a privatization of Social Security – indeed it was a new entitlement via the annual government guaranteed contribution/”match” and there was no mandate that anyone contribute anything. Social Security was not really touched as only a tiny talking point for cover change was given the GOP so as to get the GOP controlled Congress to pass it. To call it a plan for privatization is nonsense and destroys the credibility of your main point – that we need to beware the commission going in a direction that excludes defense and tax increases on the rich.
Thanks for that insight. As we all know here, there’s quite a few solutions out there, and some are pretty simple and straightforward.
However, as we all know here, our corporate oligarchs have set up the system to punch back the merest mention of increasing taxes, rates or fees that will, in any way, have even the tiniest impact on some obscenely wealthy individual. That these corporate oligarchs have been so very, very successful at dumbing down and mezmerising the bulk of the population to go along with this ^%$& is quite something to behold, ain’t it?
And believe me, when Soc Sec is gone, these same stupid voters will go along with it and say: well, that’s the way it is. Suck it up you leftwing @$$holes; you always want something for nothing! And they’ll revel in their self-righteous judgementalism. Amazing.
LOL
Indeed! I concur. How do we DO that? It’s not happening, and as we can see the corporate media is spinning it that this some kind of “cadillac welfare” “entitlement” that granny and grandpa are getting so unfairly and it’s an egregious sin.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=402544
At this point we are going to have reach people one at a time. We have no media that will tell citizens the truth and we get the word out by explaining – in VERY simple terms – exactly what’s going on to anyone who will listen. Teddy Roosevelt said “Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.” It’s the only way now.
Let’s see if I get it.
1. Wiped out Americans’ savings and investment with the market crash in the fall of ’08.
2. Wiped out Americans’ life savings in their home equity — ongoing.
3. Wipe out Americans’ investment in social security — last savings to raid.
Got it!
This should not be a surprise to anyone who has watched what previous Democratic Congresses have done to SS – like LBJ and a Congress dominated by Democrats allowing SS funds to be spent as part of the general fund. The SC has already long ago found that no individual paying into SS is entitled to a single dime of that $ that was withheld returned to them in retirement should the gov’t choose not to return it. Consider it GONE. The Commission will give Wall Street a chunk of it by finding that it will have to be invested in stocks, privatization, and the balance will go into worthless gov’t bonds (along with 401K $) so old people will be wiped out once they are unable to work.
Unfortunately, we will all be old one day, and penniless if we cannot provide for ourselves, unless the gov’t chooses to get rid of us prior to our old age.
Exactly, alan1tx..The rocket science here Mary is the fact that SS deduction is a TAX..It is NOT paid in by you for your future..You are paying for those on SS today. SS receipts, in 2009 totaled $900.00 billion, representing 35.7% of revenue collected. That money is not put into a separeate account, but is added to the general fund.President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed the Social Security Act on August 14, 1935, which established a basic compact between generations: younger workers would contribute payroll taxes, and retired workers would have a more secure retirement. So, if you like paying for others retirement, good for you..but I resent it. And as for disabilities, stop the pity party..My uncle came back from WWII a paraplegic..and he became a farmer..yes a farmer..supported himself..yes he did..And yes, I have had cancer too..and I went back to work as soon as I could and yes, my health insurance is very expensive as it should be..I am high risk..Why should I demand that you, and others help me out.,This is my problem. You know, I would be ashamed to think like “you people” do..expecting others to “take care” of you. You never grew up..left home..cut the apron strings..Its just plain ole pathetic. So all of your talk of moral authority just doesn’t do much for me..In fact, it makes me even more determined to fight against this La La land mentality. I dont want to live in La La land..or in the great hippie commune in the sky..uggggggg But there is a place you can go where everything your heart desires is provided and wealth is redistributed. Its GREECE..Oh yea, I forgot..They are BROKE. Socialism is great until you run out of every one else.s money.
My motto
Annoy Liberals..WORK, SUCCEED, BE HAPPY
To all who say ‘Republican-lite’. This isn’t ‘Republican-lite’. This is ‘Republican-centre of a neutron star-fucking heavy’.
I find it amazing how much the ruling class wants to take what few perks we retired folks have like ss. I also find it amazing that since I was out of the workforce raising my family I was never able to put much money into the fund so that my small monthly income minus the $96.00 for medicare doesn’t really add up to much. This troubles me since everyone regardless of how much one receives has the same amount taken out for Medicare. The lower income subsidizing the higher income folks!
Wrong. It’s just another transfer of wealth to the wealthy. At the tax end it’s regressive – low income workers pay on their entire income, those with larger paychecks and/or investment income pay a tiny percentage.
As we’ve seen from the ‘healthcare’ debate, the poor die younger than the wealthy. Not only are their checks smaller at the recipient end, they collect fewer of them; as the age of retirement continues to be raised, they will be paying in yet more to collect still less.
I’m sure I don’t understand social security well enough but am I missing something about it?
What I read is that when you pay social security taxes it goes from you to to the Treasury dept and the Treasury adds up all the amounts coming in from the amounts being paid to current retirees. Any excess incoming money is spent by the government and replaced by promises to pay. Seems to me it actually resembles something Bernie Madoff did with his
ponzibenefit scheme.There is no account with your name on it holding money for you. It’s just a promise to pay you from the labor force taxes beginning the year you retire.
Is that correct?
I think the percentage is the same whether you are poor or wealthy. I think it’s currently 7.65%
Obama is Truly. Fucking. Evil.
There’s no more room for debate.
Lower intake is occurring due to income shift through last three decades. This is the root cause of the issue even if it is not at all serious as claimed.
As seen most of the times plan is to create a artificial crisis, put Weak & Infirm senior citizens on the street because upper 1% do not want to pay a portion of the required profits generated through tax payer funded resource utilization. This immoral thought itself is abhorring beyond belief.
Debt commission is setup so that Social Security will get recommendation that it will be privatized in the short term, fail in the long term and we will have less than 0.5% rich and more than 99.5% poor. Yep just as we seen now in third world countries.
True Honest Fix is Reduce the tax rate from 6.25% to a lower rate and remove income limit. Side benefit: More Jobs. Employers will have so much extra money left they will put it to work in market either as profit disbursement to employees and shareholders or create jobs.
Only the medicare part has no limit. SS wages are capped.
That is correct..There is no savings account..Now lets think about it..Wouldn’t it be better to keep that money and do your own saving for your future..with the option to work forever, as I plan to..You would then have control over your life..whereas, now, the govt controls your future..Just doesn’t feel right to me..
You might find it interesting that the no means tax for social security payments that dear old Teddy Kennedy slipped through provided President and Nancy Reagan with minimum payments although they never paid the minimum FICA tax because they were self employed. Never mind that Reagan drew a large pension from the Actors Guild for being president, a pension from the California governorship, and pay as president of the US.
Of course being ethical people they both collected their “minimum payments.”
Well, my Obama apologist days are over. Forget DINO, does anybody else think he’s just a Republican in sheep’s clothing?