omg

Could provide a lot of people with unemployment help right now with that money wasted trying to stop people from smoking pot.

FDL, please tell me you simply never heard of “Legalize, Regulate, Educate” for a slogan to promote Cannabis reform. I was unhappy with the choices we had to vote on.

Legalize, Regulate, Educate

If it works for dynamite…

I guess if the guy valued his dog, he shouldn’t be dealing with drugs (which is against the law).

It’s unfortunate that this miscreant’s decisions will have provided such a negative memory for the child.

I know folks that this type of unnecessary police and Fed brutality has happenned to. Know folks who have done six years in prison for marijuana cultivation. Mandatory sentencing for non violent offenders is insane. Ruins many people’s lives.

Grow marijuana and you may do outlandish prison time.

Start an unnecessary war..hundreds of thousands of people are dead, injured, millions displaced and walk…do no time. Out a CIA undercover agent, undermine National Security, torture, break international agreements. Walk. Do no prison time. In fact no accountability what so ever.

Wall Street rips off the American taxpayers and they walk with huge executive compensations. No Prison time for their crimes.

The peasants are fully aware that our state and Federal Justice systems are not just. They know this is a myth. This reality manifest in a deep disrespect for this so called justice system. People know that when the majority of our leaders say “no one is above the law” that this claim is hogwash.

So the cops shoot the dogs while a kid is in the house and then they charge the father with child endangerment? That is a perfect example of just how backwards the leadership of our country has become in its orgy of violence over drugs.

At least they didn’t shoot the kid…

it seems like the logic that if women don’t want to be stoned they should just not let their faces be seen.

And he wasn’t dealing drugs.

Horribly, in some parts of the world that would be true.

It looked as though not a single one of those officers had even the slightest notion, not even for a fleeting second, that what they were doing was unnecessary and wrong on so many levels. Indeed, Jane wrote that such incidents are rarely caught on video, but it looked in this case like the officers were the ones making the video.

I have had an officer – armed with a gun that was not visible, out of uniform, and not having identified himself – push in my door once and then give me similar orders in my own livingroom, so I have some point of reference to understand how wrong this was.

I’ve seen this kind of thing before. And I’ve seen the police laugh afterwards (Tennessee; innocent family stopped at roadside). I think most dogs are better and more valuable than most people. I am filled with murderous rage right now, and if that happened to my dog, I would without question do my best to [edited by mod]. There is no question that the police have fundamentally changed in attitude since 9/11, and now they are clearly just looking for any excuse to be violent. I’ve experienced the change personally. This is the truth of our police state that we are trapped in now.

Sorry, Moderator, but extreme atrocity elicits extreme emotion and rage. Anything less is condonation.

And Commenter #4, (fill in the blank).

[modnote - no violence]

Add to this horror the realization that the private prison industry is profitable only if their cells are full. Overfull is better. And that the mandate to fill these cells falls mostly on young people of color, and that a terrible injustice is done – for profit. So the paramilitary get to earn more money as it is deemed more thuggery is needed to feed that industry, and on it goes.

“…shoots and kills a dog in the presence of a small child and the man’s wife, shoots and wounds a second dog, all over a grinder, a pipe and a small amount of marijuana.”

I did not see any mention in the posting of the home owner dealing drugs, or being convicted of dealing drugs. How often do we see law enforcement trumping up unsustainable charges to cover up for or to deflect from their own storm trooper illegality.

I should have clarified better. I did not say/mean that he was dealing drugs. I said he was dealing WITH drugs… and I should have added illegally.

Jon, is it a law for women to hide their faces?

I just telephoned the City Managers’ Office in Columbia, MO and expressed my outrage.

I then went on to say that those comitting the forced/armed search warrant execution along with all who authorized it should be the ones being charged with ‘Child Endangerment’. Also said that the world is upside down in Columbia, MO.

btw, they’re receiving tons of calls. The phone is ringing off the hook

Everyone reading this at FDL could call and express outrage. Want to Boycott something? Boycott Columbia, MO.

“Endless” wars must, by definition, lay waste to sanity, reason,
understanding, and … humanity.

However, such “wars”, somehow, are very profitable for a few

That is why the political class, in America, so loves them.

“Gotcha!” games of “moral” poppycock are the zenith of current political “thought” in an America where Karl Rove and Rahm Emanuel, and others of their ilk, may thrive.

Truth.

And,

Justice …?

Not …so much.

However, things will change ONLY when people INSIST, impolitely and incessantly upon that change.

(This is part of that process.)

Thank you, Jane, for sharing even the disturbing TRUTH with us.

DW

In Saudi Arabia

kid I know, son of a co-worker – really, really good kid – busted for smoking a roach in UT parking garage a week ago. family initially took the approach of negotiating with UT – a little community service, etc. as much as I didn’t want to upset his mom, felt it important to share with her what I have learned here about losing your student loans if convicted – UT confirmed, so now this family has to spend thousands in retainers – and his college career hangs in the balance – Texas and society as a whole will lose if this child is denied an Eng Degree

what an effin waste

I said he was dealing WITH drugs… and I should have added illegally.

Shoot, I missed that part of the video. You know, where he is charged, then provided his day in court with a speedy trial and was found guilty by a jury of his peers.

Darn, I always miss the good stuff.

Don’t know how the mods are going to react to your comment, but I think you measured and expressed your appropriate rage well.

I’m not sure I agree with your assertion that the new paradigm of the excessive use of violence in our police state started only after 9/11. I think it goes back to the 1990s. In the 1980s, police would arrive on a scene, try to calm the situation and evaluate it, and leave if there was no reason for further action. But at some point (I think it was during the 1990s), the police started using force first and make arrests before knowing the facts. Prosecutors, too, shifted to a willingness to take weak cases to court and to drop the fullest weight of the law on everyone and anyone they can in an effort to get convictions.

nevermind (had an incorrect assumption cbl2)

For clarification:

Are you defending what the officers did in this situation?

And this is an improvement? How does the punishment fit the crime? Extrapolating to the area of immigration law, so many people vilify “illegal aliens”, and appear to beleive that anything that befalls them is well-deserved punishment. ICE has released their count (suspected undercount) of immigration detainee deaths during 2009.

http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2009/04/report_ice_rele.html

Using your logic, because they had committed the crime of illegal entry to the U.S., anythging that happened to them at the hands of the “State” as a result of that act is to be expected and deserved.

Thank you. razorbrain

Good question.

this is not news but great to put it up. Great that someone caught the abuse on tape

This kind of brutality has been taking place in marijuana growing areas (Hawaii, Kentucky, Ohio, California etc) in the U.S. for decades. Someone could collect thousands of these stories about serious abuse by Fed officlas and state police for non violent crimes and put together a coffee table book. Know kids who are now grown adults who watched Feds knock their parents to the ground hold guns to their bodies while the kids were screaming… completely terrorized. All for marijuana cultivation.

I would say that if the law in Saudi Arabia dictates stoning for women if they allow their face to be seen, then maybe… MAYBE if they wish to avoid such a demise, they should probably take steps to not reveal their face.

Do you disagree?

University of Texas – Austin. it was a UT cop who busted them

I completely agree with you. Your concluding point is right on.

But I do want to point out that, when talking about punishment fitting the crime, we should remember that it’s not the officers’ job to punish anyone. All the shit we saw in this video happened before anyone was convicted of anything.

Agreed! Thanks for the correction.

It’s not an entirely new phenomenon, but I really sensed a change after 9/11–as though they knew we’d entered a time when nothing they did would be seriously quetioned anymore.

I’m recalling an incident where they were following a carful of Muslim medical students travelling down I95 returning to their medical school in Miami. It was being covered live on TV for hours. Finally, they stopped the car. They then claimed that TWO drug/bomb dogs “alerted” on the car, and did a complete search. FOUND NOTHING! They obviously lied about the dog alerts. One could make a mistake, but not two. They just invented an excuse to see what was in the car. Never any repercussions, or even any comment in the media about the obviously fraudulent alert claims. I knew right then that this was no longer my America, and everything I’ve seen since has just confirmed that. Including having a cop hold his Glock trained right between my eyes for an extended period of time, in my own yard, because he wanted to investigate me for allegedly entering a roadway without sufficient clearance of an approaching car 1/4 mile away. No ticket. I used to be a major law-and-order supporter, but now I regard the police as the enemy. Sorry to say.

That Swat team was better behaved than many of our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.(I have talked with many returning soldiers, attended one of the Winter hearings several years ago that our MSM barely whispered about)

Swat Teams, Feds, local cops terrorize non violent marijuana offenders, American soldiers have terrorized and killed innocent Iraqi, and Afghani people and terrorized children. Same headset…similar training.

Unfortunate circumstance and feel badly for the family involved. I’ve long thought that marijuana should be legalized but figured it has not been made legal yet simply and only because some oligarchs are making boatloads of $$$$$$$ off it being sold on the black market.

That said, for better or worse, let the user beware. I don’t LIKE or AGREE with what happened here, BUT… the substance is controlled and illegal. If you make a choice to use what are, for now, illegal drugs, then you take a risk. And you have to accept that risk. I may not like it or agree with it, but that’s how it works.

And yes: you’re not being very smart if you don’t “get” that our nation’s system of “justice” works differently if you’re obscenely wealthy, or if you rich, or if you’re white and middle class, or if your poor, or if you’re a minority (esp not rich), or if you’re female. THAT is a FACT.

So: beware. If something’s illegal, whether I like it or not, it does give the PD the power to bust me. I agree that the level of force seems quite beyond the pale, but, as I work in the legal system, I know that this is often what happens.

That said: we need to legalize pot… STAT. (but I’ll not hold my breath bc it still appears that wealthy oligarchs must be making money off it being illegal… imo).

I’m not sure I agree with your assertion that the new paradigm of the excessive use of violence in our police state started only after 9/11.

The Truckers and Teamsters strike of 1934 Minneapolis killed 4, wounded 200

and this is OT but interesting: Many of Minnesota’s workers and farmers, looking back on the period of wartime terror and other experiences, were well aware that the Commission of Public Safety was a bipartisan affair, staffed equally by both Democrats and Republicans.
Oppositional politics in Minnesota featured a new movement called the Nonpartisan League (NPL).

The party set up a “non-party” or nonpartisan status for these farmers. In a state where rural constituents constituted three quarters of the population, this faction of the party grew rapidly and rivaled the “orthodox” faction. In synopsis, the farmers and workers realized that both the D’s and R’s were corrupt assholes and they were being ‘bipartisan’ in their corruptness. History does repeat.

I had initially assumed UT, Utah and sent you some Mormon snark, me bad.

Dear Activists,

Let’s do something about these egregious marijuana laws. These laws have their origins in race-based fears of the 1930′s. Mexicans, Blacks, and jazz culture represented its usage in the period in the national media. Out of control Blacks high on marijuana were seen as a threat to White people. Sensationalist newspaper stories of crimes committed while high fanned the flames.
In Massachusetts, the Drug Policy Forum of Massachusetts needs your help. In the year 2000, we started a low budget peoples’ campaign of non-binding local elections done in state rep and state senate districts throughout the state. We have done these every two years since for medical marijuana and decriminalization all over the state and have never lost one election in doing over a third of the state! We presented a convincing case to national funders and got a statewide binding initiative for decriminalization for under an ounce passed in 2008 with over 65% voting in favor!
It is now another election cycle and we have till the end of June to collect signatures to put medical and, also, tax and regulate like alcohol on the ballot in many districts. Districts representing over a quarter of a million will be voting on medical marijuana with your help.
There are town elections in many towns this Tuesday, the 11th, and we need signature help for tax and regulate in Wayland and help for medical in Attleboro, North Attleboro, Plainville, Norfolk, and Wrentham (former state senator Scott Brown’s hometown). We also need help for tax and regulate in the Amherst/Montague area in many local towns in a number of continuing town meetings and elections. You don’t even have to wait until election days. Volunteers can start helping with signatures at area supermarkets today.
We are almost ready to turn in our signatures for tax and regulate in Nantucket and Martha’s Vineyard for the November vote. Are people interested in publicly demonstrating on the Vineyard this July at the time of the Chelsea Clinton wedding when all the national media is on the island? This could be very exciting!
Please get in touch and help.

John Leonard
toomuchfun33@gmail.com

Yeah: someone’s making money somewhere is my ongoing refrain. If someone wasn’t getting rich off of pot being illegal, I think it would’ve been legalized long ago. The gov’t just hides behind the rightwing, family values, “chritianist” stuff. I don’t believe it’s that; it’s all about the money (and there’s loads of money in pot).

I think the “strong arm” law tactics are used to scare off the serfs and “little guys” in order to clear the field for the Mr. Bigs, who are really making out like, cough cough, banditos on selling pot illegally. The Feds and the PDs are just the hired goons for the rich oligarchs (either in this country or elsewhere, but really: what does it matter? there are no borders when you’re super rich). That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. Let the pot user beware; there is no mercy, even these days.

If the arguments in favor of criminalizing marijuana were honest, they would admit that current prohibitive practices cause more harm than the actual ‘abuse’ of the drug would.

Criminalization is driven more by profit motives than concern for the welfare of society.

preaching to the choir…blech, we’re all Amalekites now…

I just had a sickening thought – in the face of the new AZ law, will Holder’s DOJ slow down their investigation of Arpaio so as to deflect any charges of ‘politicizing’ investigations ?

similar training.

SAME fricken training. Majority of our current and future LE officers, local and federal come right out of the Military, especially MP’s.

Do you know who ran the Prison in Abu Ghraib? US MP’s, and quite a few are National Guard or Reservists who do what in their Civilian jobs? Law Enforcement.

Civilian LE Abuser same as Military LE Abuser.

s’okay firedog :D

There is no level of Hell low enough for those SWAT team assholes, IMO they are somewhere down there with child molesters.

It has taken me 15 minutes to collect my thoughts after seeing that video, and it has probably changed forever the way I will look at police officers dressed in those darth vader outfits.

Well I haven’t run across a bigger [edited by mod] today.

[modnote - no personal attacks]

I hear Law Enforcement is hiring…

I literally just finished reading political prairie fire. A great book on the NPL

“kid I know, son of a co-worker – really, really good kid – busted for smoking a roach in UT parking garage a week ago…”

Kid needs to lawyer up, the good news is, the GI Bill is going to help him pay for school, the bad news is, that’s after he gets back from the Army in a couple of years.

am with ya. years ago I (98 lbs) tackled a 360 pound ‘man’ after he kicked a kitten. kitty lived another 18 years :D

The drug wars opened up the corrupt Police state.

Did any of these clown cops serve in Iraq?
Seems the legitimization of dehumanization of the WARS is destroying this promising country.

If Christ would come back and visit the USA he would be arrested and convicted for the manufacture of Marijuana, as a drug king pin, probably by put to death by self proclaimed christians.

True.

Another way to look at it, if no one used pot, no one would be getting rich off it.

family retained a very good Criminal Defense Atty. Univ has already provided letter asking charges be dropped. his advisor was somehow unaware of the draconian lose-your-student-loan crap and his now working on the kid’s behalf.

I wasn’t saying that police had never seriously abused authority before the 1990s.

I’m saying that, at some point (during the 1990s, I think), the police use of excessive force to dominate anyone and everything in all situations became the norm across the country.

That’s what I was thinking.

Are you defending what the officers did in this situation?

No, I am neither defending nor denouncing it… completely indifferent.

I am not against the pot, but the guy shouldn’t have gotten caught with it. That’s his mistake.

I imagine that the healthy show of force often works for the PD’s benefit, but I don’t believe that filming it (or being caught on film) was advisable. But, I could be wrong.

Of course, if you don’t like police intrusion… well I am not sure you will like what’s coming down the pike.

Couldn’t disagree more. “Protect and Serve.” Ever hear of that?

The police have no legal license to use disproportionate and/or unnecessary force in the performance of their duties. They have no right to get violent unless they meet with resistance. But the fact is, many of them enjoy being able to do it and get away with it.

I also spent time working in the legal system, and follow all criminal cases involving excessive police force closely. Juries never convict, can think of only one or two exceptions. Proving the rule. Try not to be such an apologist, because one day you may get to experience the other side for yourself. And you won’t like it.

This is exactly where and how it begins.. on a very small divided and conquer level… in a single dwelling or most often a traffic stop. It began in the 80′s with Reagan and the judiciary opening the floodgates on what should be illegal searches…. and never paused, much less turned back.

As someone who drove across this country many many time on legitimate business I cannot begin to count the times I spent pulled over, interrogated and searched, items in vehicle thrown in a ditch where they had me stand while they did it in all kinds of weather, sometimes dragged into little jails… and many times charged with some trumped up traffic violation before being freed.

And I am a citizen with no (as in zero) criminal record.

What’s perhaps most egregious is that all police “police” themselves in this country. I’ve been in situations where police asked me to sit in the back of their car during an entirely needless traffic stop only to look in and see little bags of white powder in their floorboards….. Set up! Try telling their own watchdogs or a judge while you fight the trumped up traffic violation that that kind of thing happened.

As violent as Americans can be, I am constantly amazed we are not much more so.

Yes it is. I was a member of the Grange (as was my Grandfather, early components of that movement created by Oliver Kelly)

Problem is, don’t think we can repeat it. We don’t have 2/3rd’s rural population anymore. And the Teamsters? While they’re strong at the local level are completely corrupt at the National Level.

After 1934, the D’s in response to losses (and the threat that the communists on the Iron Range posed) formed the current DFL, Democratic Farmer Labor Party.

They then Co-opted the socialists and labor. There’s that fricken circle again.

laker sounds like one of those strict law and order guys, and probably sees the swat team as only doing their job. You know, herd them into cattle cars,herd them out of cattle cars, herd them into the gas chambers… but it’s OK because they have the law on their side and they are only doing their jobs.

I’m sure glad people like Rosa Parks didn’t obey.

On the big island of Hawaii the Feds wiped out the small growers ( more marijuana grown in this county than any other years ago) a decade ago and now “ice” much harder drug use rampant.

In southeastern Ohio, Kentucky have heard many stories of people’s fields being confiscated and then only a fraction of what the police pulled out of the ground showing up a the station

“Apologist” was too strong, now I apologize. I realize you were not approving it. I’m pretty worked up right now. I’m going to hear that dog screaming all day long. Mother fuckers.

I used to be a major law-and-order supporter, but now I regard the police as the enemy. Sorry to say.

I was a law-and-order supporter at one time, too. Many who are don’t stop being law-and-order supporters until they are living in something like Nazi Germany, i.e. until after it’s too late. Some of us see the signs of it rising.

Other than doing our best to avoid having any contact with police (which is what I advise my son), what else can we do?

I think LE has used it since the beginning of time. Whenever there is a threat to the status quo, a threat to the powers that control, the abuse of power comes out and people get their heads beat in.

Bull Connors
Richard Daley
etc

Please, moderator, if there were ever an occasion to take a restroom break or otherwise abandon the moderator post for just a moment, this article and the emotional outrage generated would justify that dereliction of duty.

Ho Hum? Gee I disagree but you did jaywalk? I mean that is essentially what you are saying, isn’t it? Accidents will happen. But what are ya gonna do?

In any even relatively decent society what these guys did would result in at the very least their losing their jobs and pensions and should result in their being charged with a crime. The fact that that doesn’t happen here doesn’t meant that I shouldn’t get incredibly outraged about it and try to do something about this one specific incident and try to fix it so that it doesn’t happen again anywhere.

I don’t agree with what happened, and perhaps juries don’t convict.

However, I’m just calling it as I see it. The PD uses force. Ergo, the illegal drug user should be aware of what they’re up against and some unintended consequences of their actions.

Disciplining the PD and/or advocating for changing how the PD and the Feds respond is a different issue from what I discuss. I’m simply pointing the reality on the ground today. Don’t agree with it, but that’s how it works, unfortunately. Citizens need to be cautious, is all I’m saying. Don’t have to like it or agree with it.

Please. Don’t feed the troll.

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. Please go back and read what I said. I don’t AGREE with it; I’m just saying that this IS what happens. I’m looking at the reality and advocating that people be aware of it.

Taking on this kind of PD and Fed excessive force behavior is another issue. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

It was Daryl Gates who created SWAT to realize his twisted fantasies of keepin’ the nigger down. So while the CIA was drug running crack in South Central to fund the Contras, he was free to break their heads as a collateral benefit.

The Tactical Commander along with the Police Chief need to be disciplined and removed from their positions of responsibliity.

You Do Not Conduct A Forced Armed Entry in the presence of innocents, especially children. Check out federal,state and local guidelines. These guys fucked up.

Someone, DoJ, FBI, someone needs to step up to the plate and charge the Tac Commander and anyone else involved with the authorization with “Child Endangerment” here. Set a frickin example. (was it a local, state or federal warrant?)

Laker — I’m getting the impression that any breaking of any law means, for you, that the police have the right to damgage property, kill pet animals, terrify young children, threaten adults, and arrest and haul off in handcuffs the alledged miscreant.

Hope you’ve never, ever made an error on your taxes….

Feds are gonna be needing every penny they can extract in the future to keep up their illegal wars, their storm troops, etc. States are going to be even more desperate, as they can’t print their own money.

Hope you are utterly blameless…of anything. Ever. (Ever jaywalked???)

I’m trying to learn lessons by studying earlier successful movements and pressure groups. Any other suggested books

The law treats animals as “property,” sama as a chair or a hammer. I know them to be thinking, feeling, loving creatures, in many cases better than the average folks I run into in public. I would do what you did, even if it meant my life got ruined for it.

Proving that not all lawyers are without feeling or emotion, I guess. ;-)

The drug wars opened up the corrupt Police state.

Got that right.

Kudos to you for having a rational brain.

Maybe it was the positive reaction to the New York City Police Commissioner’s “Broken Windows Program” (I think that was the name) The theory was that major crime escalates if you ignore the small nuisance crimes, so really aggressive balls-to-the-wall enforcement of even minor offenses would lead to a reduction in more major criminal activity. When the statistics initially appeared to support this theory, other law enforcement agencies tried to adopt the practice.

Exactly. Bingo! Same exact stuff going in the far Northwest of CA, aka Humboldt and Lake Counties, plus loads of other places in CA.

A couple of years ago, some Asian Tong bought a bunch of houses in Sacramento, covered up the windows and did a TON of hydroponic pot growing in these houses. That Tong got busted PDQ, but – shock!! – no one actually was indicted bc they all fled back to Hong Kong or wherever. I figured the local Mr. Big didn’t like ‘em horning in on his territory.

Yes, many drug busts end up with LESS drugs recovered than what was there in the first place. Again: let the drug user and/or grower beware. I don’t AGREE with such tactics, but they do go on.

We can all agree that they are out of control right now.

They entered a residential area as if it were a war zone. They made no effort to assess the situation before entering the house. They do not appear to have known, for example, that there were children in the house. They killed a dog because it was there.

Certainly that’s true, as well. But our corporate overlords definitely want us serfs using lots of drugs. It enures to their financial gain. Boxer rebellion, anyone????

Not arguing with you over that. That is true. Citizens are advised to be aware that this is what happens. I don’t LIKE or AGREE with it. I adhere to the adage that knowledge is power.

Per Wikipedia,

“In 1965, Officer John Nelson came up with the idea to form a specially trained and equipped unit to respond to and manage critical situations while minimizing police casualties.”

I saw nothing critical here requiring a SWAT team. I am pretty sure a few regular officers could have served the warrant in a more peaceable manner. Guess they were just bored cause no one had robbed a bank or held anyone hostage in a while. This is like calling the fire department with a ladder truck for a BBQ pit flash.

Thanks. I have to look up that program.

I had to stop the video once I heard the dog screaming. I cannot begin to tell you how disturbing this is to me – what law allows the police to kill your dog over a misdemeanor or even without any charge at all?
My nephew was a Detroit cop and he was attacked by a pit bull and had to shoot it. He has never gotten over it. What sort of inhuman monsters would shoot a dog – or chase a puppy back into a fire? What sort of subhumans are able to do this?

Seems to be SOP in any bust where dogs are involved. Many dogs killed by cops in the Tampa Bay area. I keep wondering if they’d kill my cats if they raided my home.

I’m doing my part to not make the rich richer. (Company policy and testing program keeps me strong)

Thanks Jane, for reminding your middle class liberals that this shit is happening. President (chess master) Obama condones this sort of thing or he would not oppose the legalization of marijuana. Why does Obama hate dogs?

Knowledge is power in making real change, not in accepting the unacceptable.

laker, he wasn’t dealing with “drugs”. He only had a little weed. I have poppies in my garden. Those are not drugs either.

Dude
I’m dealing with my brother (55) arrest for growing 18 4″ plants.
Lawyers want $10,000 to $12,000 to defend him.
He’s on SS disability can’t take painkillers , has no teeth and is in constant pain. They locked him up for three days and with no heart medicine until he had a severe angina attack. Took him to the hospital shackled him to a bed and posted an armed guard outside his door in case he tried to break out and plant seeds, I guess. They want his house and for him to spend 10 years in jail for less than an oz.

Is this the best country or what?

Nope. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is be aware of the pros and cons of your situation and make your decisions wisely.

Am I judging the druggie? No. Am I judging the police? No.

Will it work out well for the druggie? Probably not. Will it work out well for the police? I don’t know.

Most assert themselves as the arbiters of right and wrong (and it’s all over this thread)… the claim is that some actions are against humanity or society or something (despite what the actual law may be or the judicial system in place). I do not subscribe to this idiotic line of thought / feeling.

AND, every single time I have ever been in court, traffic or other, the police have blatantly LIED about the facts. But the judges pretend that police never lie. It’s a very convenient arrangement. Only one judge ever took my testimony over the cop’s, and that was because the cop’s testimony was just too blatantly implausible (said he stopped me and charged me with disorderly conduct because I, as a third year law student, was riding my bicycle home from law school on Third Avenue in Manhattan, and I was just screaming obscenities at noone in particular, and he could see that my fellow New Yorkrs were disturbed by that. Imagine! Truth was, he almost killed me turning a truck the wrong way onto a one-way street, and as we were inches apart, I hissed, “Asshole” at him, not being able to see he was a cop because his headlights blinded me).

Lawyers call it “testilying.”

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/aug2009/mpls-a26.shtml

and it references : Millard Gieske, Minnesota Farmer-Laborism: The Third-Party Alternative (University of Minnesota Press, 1979)

I don’t have access to my Political Science Texts. We used texts written by a History Prof and a Political Sci Prof in college. I’m not sure where those books are today Jon – I’ll look around.

But that’s where I learned, from the guys that were there, then wrote about and taught about it (along with family :-) ).

I keep wondering if they’d kill my cats if they raided my home.

Killer CATS!! Watch out they will claw ya to death…
Sd if just one of the cops is in a bad mood you could almost count on it… Just to show you how fucking mean they are.
I just wish there was some legal recourse for all this cruelty!! Where is PETA when ya need them??

No actually the reality is out of control police forces. What is one to do when one is the mayor mentioned above who did nothing wrong, committed no crimes and still was raided and had his dogs shot?

How do you respond to that?

I would think that there would be cops who would refuse to kill dogs unnecessarily.

So, if you’re not willing to kill dogs as SOP during busts, are you not allowed to be a cop?

What does it say about every officer who’s handed a badge and a gun that he or she is ok with killing dogs as SOP for no other reason than that they were there?

You’re right, if one is doing something illegal, you run the risk. But, many times you are running the risk even without doing anything illegal. And, there is no excuse for using disproportionate force. Ever.

The statutory penalty for marijuana use is not dead dog and traumatized child, however.

“You shot my dog. What the fuck did you do that for?”

Real answer: so demagogic politicians could strut across the stage and proclaim sanctimoniously that the “war on drugs” is about saving lives.

one word: Tulia

Nothing unless we change the country first. Avoiding all contact, ALL contact, is the best strategy until then.

One place to read about the early success of that program is in Malcolm Gladwell’s The Tipping Point, but right now I don’t recall him following it to other areas to how it played out.

I seem to remember a weapon introduced during the Vietnam War era that was nicknamed “hushpuppies” by the Special Ops forces because it was used to kill all dogs when approaching a village in order to presever the element of surprise (notwithstanding that many Vietnamese could smell Americans from a great distance, and didn’t need dogs for a heads-up).

There’s the old hippie and there’s the Viet Nam combat vet. I’ll let the cops choose which one they end up dealing with.

:-)

librty this is standard operating procedure in cities and towns EVERYWHERE. It just doesn’t usually happen to people who can afford a lawyer.

Keep in mind, that with all the laws on the books, you probably break one or more every single day. Here in the South, some laws still on the books (at least until recently, haven’t checked) required having someone run in front of your automobile with a light lantern. How would you like that violation to become the predicate for some brutalization? It ain’t just about drugs. It could be anything.

Some teams used crossbows, others used silenced weapons. Bathe in the river, never use deodorants or aftershave, wash uniforms in river water, eat a lot of local food.

Watching the video – you have to say, wow, those are some macho guys there, real tough ones, busting in on scary targets like a sleeping family, woot there, some bravery, guys, courageous stuff alright. Did yourselves proud i’m sure.

What risk are you taking? The risk of a SWAT team bursting and killing your dog?

Suppose the guy had been cleaning his pistol when they burst in and the cops felt “threatened”?

Don’t feed the NIHILIST troll. Fixed it for ya.

My menagerie says,”Fuck You, Columbia Missouri SWAT!” They also say, “Fuck You, BP, Halliburton, and Transocean!” For all the non-human animals, National Prayer Day has turned into National Fuck You Suck-Ass Humans Day.

I saw nothing critical here requiring a SWAT team

I think you have it backwards.
The SWAT team needs to justify it’s existence (and cost).

Sounds like my office mate. I’d better watch my back.

NOT EVERYWHERE.

All municipalities and multi-jurisdiction SWAT and TAC teams that I’m aware of maintain required guidelines that mandate when and how a ‘Forced Armed Entry’ or commonly referred to as a “No Knock Entry” can or will be allowed.

although I noticed that these fellas knocked first, then used the Ram. They can then show that at 2:00 am or whenever this ‘Search Warrant’ was executed, that they knocked first. These guys are WAY outside of Federal Guidelines. (and outside of the State guidelines where I live)

many of these young men returning from Iraq are going into law enforcement. Wonder what percentage of these Swat Teams have been to Iraq or Afghanistan

for decades now

These men were doing their jobs. They are trained to enter, search, clear and detain in under a minute. When dogs get involved it seriously complicates things.

Dogs are beautiful, loving, loyal animals. I actually wept when the man realized his dog was dead while I watched this video. That doesn’t change the fact that dogs are animals. These officers, in executing a lawful search warrant, with the best information available, don’t know those animals from a rabid raccoon. The safest thing for the people involved is to incapacitate the dog if it moves toward an officer or acts aggressively.

The other, brutal facet of this argument is that a lot of criminals use dogs as an early warning system. Would we be having this kind of reaction if the dogs barking alerted a sleeping man with an AK-47 in the bedroom to the police presence moving through the house, and said man then killed two SWAT officers? I don’t think so.

Its all subjective here. I would love for people to not deal with this kind of shit over pot. That’s why I’m voting for legalization in CA in November. So my neighbors don’t have to fear this type of persecution. But at the same time I understand why the officers acted the way they did. I don’t think they should be persecuted either. They didn’t break the law.

I’m with you. I hope they ______ and ___.

Yes, I remember that case. It’s epidemic, I’m totally convinced.

Remember when the police invaded OJ’s home without a warrant because they “feared he might have come to harm” ? Judge never blinked.

You don’t think the officers should be “persecuted”?
I think they should be fucking _____ and ______.

Ditto. Except no combat vet, just an upbringing on the mean streets of Brooklyn ;- ).

The cops obviously didn’t have very good information, and before making this type of entry, the public has a legitimate expectation that they will first have accurate information that would justify such an entry. Accordingly, while they may have been “doing their job”, they were doing their job negligently and used poor judgment and excessive force, and that is actionable.

Kris, sorry Dude. But depending on the jurisdiction you live, SWAT or TAC teams are not authorized to use Forced Armed Entries when children are likely to be present. (except in fucking Kandahar or Fallujah)

Why? Imagine that AK-47 that you just mentioned being picked up, officers responding with their CAR’s or MP5′s or M4 and the children are in the cross fire.

Don’t believe me? That’s Fine. Go visit your local Sheriff or P.D. and ask them what their guidelines are.

If they authorize Armed Forced Entries for service of Misdemeanor Warrants, run for office or move.

Jesus H Christ. America is toast. We are nothing but a Corporate Facist Theocracy. Blow whatever wad you have and then go for a long swim folks, cuz Big Brother is HERE TO STAY! And they’re gonna bring on all this horror in THE NAME OF JESUS!

You think an animal is less than a shithead cop? I don’t. I think a four legged animal is way better than most humans, you included. Have a nice day.

My local sheriff and p.d. are my most esteemed friends in my personal life. I hang out with them multiple times a week. When you live where I live, and have incidents like 4 officers being killed in Oakland last year, you look at things a little differently than the cops in Colombia, Missouri.

In that instance a suspect DID have an AK-47, and was killing police officers. Guys around here act accordingly now.

As for Armed Forced Entries on misdemeanor warrants, they don’t have those here. I’m assuming, though I clearly don’t know, that the warrant in this case with the video was not a misdemeanor warrant. They just did not find what they were looking for. Like I said in my post, these cops were probably acting with the best information available, and just doing their jobs. They didn’t break the law. (At least I don’t think so. What I see is by the book, though I admit I’m not conversant in the laws and codes of Missouri.)

I’ll tell you what…this serves to greatly “radicalize” the civilian population of this country.

Couldn’t bring myself to watch more than the first minute or so. Too upsetting.

If that’s the level of care we can expect from the state, we are in serious, serious trouble as a country.

I hope the guys who shot the dogs have nightmares for the rest of their lives.

If they are going to make that SOP, they could at least have one guy on the team who knows something about dogs. There is no difficulty distinguishing when a dog is about to attack or not. They don’t use deceptive body language. No excuse for killing without seeing evidence of dangerous aggression. Even gentle dogs are supposed to bark.

I find your “just animals” rationale barbaric and disgusting, even though it mirrors the present law. Sometimes, the law is an ass. Like here.

I didn’t say an animal was less than a cop. The cops didn’t put the animals in this position. Criminals did. Folks like the Crips in Long Beach who trained their dogs to attack police officers created this atmosphere.

I never said it was okay, and I resent your personal attack. I said I know animals to be loving, loyal and beautiful. I have multiple pets myself and would be crushed if a cop, or anyone for that matter, killed one of them. I don’t keep drugs in my home or around my kids to give anyone a reason, though.

Where is the personal responsibility here? I don’t think they should have been able to do that over a little pot, that’s why I’m voting here to change the laws. We can talk about right and wrong all we want, but what they did was legal. Until we change that this conversation is moot.

Where I live, 3 cops ran a drug ring, stole drugs and money from people they arrested, and prostitutes who might have been eyewitnesses to some of these things were murdered.

Kris – you’re not responding to the facts. When ‘children are likely to be present’. Find out what the Guidelines are.

These guys fucked up. You want to defend them, that’s your right.

But you can bet that the next time children get killed in a crossfire because a Forced Armed Entry while serving a Misdemeanor Search Warrant, I’ll be emailing you.

As far as friends go, yep I’ve assisted and provided technical support on the teams.

razorbrain, I said they were beautiful, loving and loyal animals. More esteemed, in my eyes, than most people I meet. A dog does, however, have the power to hurt a police officer. Just like a suspect with a gun. These guys are trained to treat a potentially aggressive animal as such. It sucks. It really, really does. Like I said in my first post, I wept when the man realized his dog was dead. But I stand by what I just said in 128:

I never said it was okay, and I resent your personal attack. I said I know animals to be loving, loyal and beautiful. I have multiple pets myself and would be crushed if a cop, or anyone for that matter, killed one of them. I don’t keep drugs in my home or around my kids to give anyone a reason, though.

Where is the personal responsibility here? I don’t think they should have been able to do that over a little pot, that’s why I’m voting here to change the laws. We can talk about right and wrong all we want, but what they did was legal. Until we change that this conversation is moot.

Pathetic. You’re hanging out with the wrong people. If they can’t handle the pressure, they should do some other job. Society gives them enormous power and rsponsibility, they are supposed to be able to do some nuance and judgment. You don’t just kill every suspect because one pulled an AK-47 once. You’re thinking like a stormtrooper, without even having the excuse of BEING a stormtrooper. Is it to appear to be as “cool” as they are? Do they share their seized drugs with you? What?

How do you know they were serving a misdemeanor warrant? Have you read the filing?

razorbrain, my mother and father respect you a lot here. So I’m not gonna dignify that flaming horseshit with an argument. You’re entitled to your opinion, and I’m not stormtrooper enough to let it bother me.

Read the report

p.s. You take the children out of the scene (along with Mom) and I’m all boots and gear if it’s a righteous warrant. But I’m betting there were some political angles to this. It’s always easier to do a clean daytime street bust. This type, Forced Armed Entry has the highest level of lethality and resulting death and wounded rate and all arrest types.

But they won’t. Instead, they’ll laugh about it over a beer later.

Psychopaths are best to control a polulation that has the audacity to think it deserves freedom. Wait till they sic the Blackwater types on us.

I didn’t say an animal was less than a cop. The cops didn’t put the animals in this position. Criminals did. Folks like the Crips in Long Beach who trained their dogs to attack police officers created this atmosphere.

Are cops supposed to run around reacting to the “atmosphere” now? The only atmosphere I see in that video is the overly aggressive atmosphere fostered by police SWAT training.

Yeah. They’ll self-medicate. Maybe even smoke a joint. Or go hunting on the weekend and slaughter some other poor innocent creature.

If you’re referring to Jane’s article, it says misdemeanor bust, which I took to mean they only found a misdemeanor amount of marijuana. If there is another report, please link. I’m not seeing it.

It takes a very special personality to value human life, respect our Constitutional Democratic Republic and serve in Law Enforcement.

There are many many honorable officers and a few shitty ones.

I’m referring to the social atmosphere under which the entry procedures and guidelines for dealing with dogs were defined. It used to be a serious crime to kill a man’s animals. In certain places, like Texas, it still is. What I was saying is SWAT and other police operators changed their procedural policy when criminals started using dogs as weapons. We live in a society (atmosphere) where some criminals use some dogs as weapons. That’s what I was saying.

One minor nitpick here, it’s Pete Guither not Geither. I have been reading his blog for years, a very smart man with a powerful voice in this battle.

I think a four legged animal is way better than most humans, you included. Have a nice day.

Agreed.. hear hear!

Ok, if you think I’m too hard on you, I’ll back off. But it’s natural to tailor one’s attitudes to match the company kept. I’m sure you hear a lot from the cop side, and it is natural to be influenced by it.

I agree with you that they have the right to kill an attacking pit bull, but I have SEEN them kill a friendly one, the spitting image of MINE, that was just coming over to say hello after they ignored repeated requests from a stopped car owner to close his car door so the dog would stay inside, andd eventually the dog came out to see what was happening. H e was clearlt friendly. They shotgunned him in the facfe, and they all immediately laughed about it.

So, just consider the other side.

Again, sorry if jumped too hard, this is an exxtremely emotional issue for me, hearing that dog scream reminded me that someone shot and killed my magnificent sweet dog two years ago. Peace.

Most small town swat teams have absolutely nothing to do that would require their use. Federal dollars became available to just about any and every burg if they wanted thier very own swat team. Using a swat team for a misdemeanor arrest at 2 am because you are bored and have nothing else for your team to do is asking for abuse. These idiots; the city manager, the police chief, should be fired. The team should be disbanded until they show a law enforcement reason for thier existance. Misdemenor arrests are not a valid reason. Being a bored swat team and an idiot police chief is not a valid reason.
The use of swat teams demand federal control and procedures. It’s fed money, yours and mine.
The abuses of swat teams in misdemenaor arrests is well documented, some resulting in death.
Oh yeah I forgot a stupid concept, Innoncent until proven guility.

Mayor, police chief to address February raid
Columbia Mayor Bob McDavid and Police Chief Kenneth Burton are holding a news conference at 12:30 this afternoon

Jonathan E. Whitworth, 25, of 1501 Kinloch Court entered into a plea agreement with the state to drop charges of possession of marijuana and second-degree child endangerment for a guilty plea to possession of drug paraphernalia.

As an aside I see a real lack of credible intelligence before the raid. What did the police (being polite) know about the occupants before they set up the raid? I suspect they got a felony warrant on bad info and went on that info only. This vid will go viral and rightfully so. I remember when “No Knock” entries were first allowed and it’s gotten nothing but uglier ever since. We had an unarmed kid in Pinellas County face down on the floor, not cuffed, shot in the back fatally by a SWAT member. His 2nd fatal shooting in 2 years. Back on patrol duty.

I’m sure there are some. My life experiences have yielded a very shitty sampling. It’s one of the toughest jobs to do right, and I couldn’t do it, but they are supposed to. But I stand by the accuracyu of every fact situation I described above, and I could add many more.

A Plea of Guilty to Drug Paraphernalia

and theses bozos in Columbia, MO used a SWAT Team? They are definetly missing the long floppy shoes and big red fucking noses. What JackAsses (with guns – and that’s not so funny)

Idiot, The indivudial involved becomes a criminal after conviction. Until then he is a misdemenaeor suspect.
Is Calif still in America? Innocent until proven guilty use to be how it worked.

Mr. Moderator,

Why the continual censorship / deletion of my posts that apply to the topic, respond to posters in the same manner that the others do, and that do not delve into the ignorant name calling (like how others treat me)?

I must say that I have to conclude you do this simply because I do not always sing the same song as many here (though I often do). If some here can’t handle argument, are you doing them a favor by squelching a different view? Is it because you are very hypocritical, but prefer not face it?

What an Asshole. you cold hearted bastard.. Hope you and your get the same treatment in return for all your ugliness inside your heart real ugly!!

It’s definitely Geographic related.

I worked with a team once; Federal, State, County and City. It was a rural area. Greatest guys in the world, just normal everyday guys. Assisted in the re-capture of an escapee from the Marshall’s Service. He had killed two US Marshalls while escaping from custody (during a transport on a death row conviction) Bad fuckin Dude.

But at the same time I understand why the officers acted the way they did. I don’t think they should be persecuted either. They didn’t break the law.

IANAL Kris, but you could be quite wrong. Missouri has laws about animal abuse and cruelty.

In Missouri animal abuse is a class A misdemeanor. Where the defendant has previously pled guilty to or has been found guilty of animal abuse, or the animal’s suffering resulted from torture or mutilation, or both, it is a class D felony.

http://ago.mo.gov/faqs/animal-welfare.htm#header6

The abuse statute defines five different categories, any one of which constitutes animal abuse:
Intentionally or purposely kill[ing] an animal in any manner not allowed by or expressly exempted from the provisions of [this act];
Purposely, intentionally or recklessly caus[ing] injury, suffering, or pain to an animal;
Abandon[ing] an animal in any place without making provisions for its adequate care;

http://aglaw.missouri.edu/mistreatinganimals.htm

OMG, razorbrain, I am so very sorry for your loss.

Ok, but shame on Wikipedia for not mentioning Daryl Gates as the most effective implementer in the origin of SWAT. As this Police Magazine article makes clear,

He may not have invented SWAT. Yet Gates was intricately involved in its creation, and like all great leaders in organizations who are presented with a great idea, he provided the push needed to get it implemented.

The Agitator’s Gates obit gets it right:

Gates was also a hardened drug warrior (he founded the wasteful, ineffective DARE program), and as one of the country’s more prominent tough-on-crime personalities, pushed the war imagery and us-versus-them approach to policing that I’d argue has plagued America’s police departments and the communities they serve for a couple decades.

Anyone rationalizing these gestapo tactics does not understand that our police state sees its common citizens as the enemy.

I attended the University of Missouri in Columbia (1998-2003) where I became a member of a Students for Sensible Drug Policy (student group) and the MO chapter of NORML. We worked for years to pass a city ordinance that mandated citations-as opposed to arrests-for misdemeanor possession of marijuana. We had the support of the mayor and the county prosecutor, and an understanding with the campus and city PD who did not openly oppose us (though they disagreed about the merit of the legislation; the state was more openly). The ordnance was only put to a vote in the city council after it passed in a referendum.

This is a truly disgusting case of our supposed “protectors” violently repressing us and, along the way, contravening the will of the people as expressed through civil, legal channels.

Legalize pot completely, now!

it was happening in the 60′s in paris, france for peaceful demonstrations against the war in vietnam. i had to step into a bookstore to avoid getting mowed down by this wall of black. only as it got closer did i see it was – police with helmets with visors and shields. i was terrified.

around the same time in new york, various people were getting killed by the police during peaceful protests. two incidents i know about personally were because rookies were on the beat at the time.

President Obama should have to watch both videos with his children.

Just to be clear-there is none in tthe world that I respect more than a good police officer or an honorable warrior serving his country. Nothing compares to what these guys do when they do it right, Period. I’m not a typical lefty in this regard, most likely.

But I have an equal and opposite anger and disdain for those who engage in behavior that disgraces their uniforms.

I’m not going to get involved in numbers or percentages, becaiuse I don’t have the hard data on that, and also because it doesn’t matter. They are all individuals, and all thaat matters is their individual behavior.

Thank you. I’ll never get over it.

But I have an equal and opposite anger and disdain for those who engage in behavior that disgraces their uniforms

.

Got that right.

This video reminds me of chasing a young boy in a sports car or muscle car on a Hi Speed Pursuit, thru a School Zone, during Recess. It’s endangerment.

Most officers won’t, some departments have rules against but everything is said and done, it’s simply irresponsible, stupid and negligent.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2010/may/03/drug-raid-inquiry-is-ongoing/

This article lies – says the first shot didn’t kill the dog, that the dog was not shot upon entering (!!) – well, no, that is why you hear the dog screaming. States the dog (a pit) was being aggressive – hell, I don’t even hear a dog barking in the video. Then states they don’t know when the other dog was shot (would the gun shots in the video be a clue?). The topper? The second dog was a Corgi! Why the heck would you feel the need to shoot a Corgi??

Mayor, police chief to address February raid
Columbia Mayor Bob McDavid and Police Chief Kenneth Burton are holding a news conference at 12:30 this afternoon

Jonathan E. Whitworth, 25, of 1501 Kinloch Court entered into a plea agreement with the state to drop charges of possession of marijuana and second-degree child endangerment for a guilty plea to possession of drug paraphernalia.

Found In the same newspaper: GUEST COMMENTARY: Hard to understand the complacency that allowed Hitler’s rise to power

You’ll maybe want to listen to it and watch it again. Yeah -the dog started barking upon the forced entry and the shouts of the officers. Then you heard the dog squealing. Then a bit later, smaller caliber shots, no more squealing.

Awww, man. (((razorbrain)))

Think I’ll split before I say something I’ll regret.

Motherfuckers.

razorbrain, I am very sorry for your loss.

He was barking in the exact same tone that my pit barks any time anyone enters the house. And he’s never bitten anything, even a cat, in nine years. He’s afraid of everything, so he makes noise until he knows he’s not going to get hurt. The body language tells you whether an attack is imminent, with any dog.

Corgis are really fearsome, aren’t they?

Truth is, it puts the lie to the usual BS that they “felt threatened.” They use that as a catchall so they can do anything they want without accountability. It’s not about how many are bad, it’s abaout the fact that any one of them can be as bad as they choose, with no real accountability.

Irony rules, doesn’t it?

Correction, first shot, immediate dog screams, then another flurry of shots and dog silenced.

The use of swat teams demand federal control and procedures.

I would prefer to Not have federal control of local swat teams. That is a Constitutional problem and an invitation to even greater abuse of power.

Much easier to elect a new Mayor or fire a City Manager than affect any change within any Federal Law Enforcement Program.

In fact, now that I think about it some more, Federal Control of Local SWAT or TAC teams scares the Living SHit out of Me.

yep

Unbelievable Irony …

I’m not talking about the excessive use of violence in crowd control, which is often scary. As I wrote in my comment @ 51:

The police use of excessive force to dominate anyone and everything in all situations became the norm across the country.

Police now in our everyday lives are ready to use excessive violence at the slightest provocation, perceived or otherwise, against anyone and everyone. Sometimes it seems like they arrive at a tense situation and add levels of tension that weren’t there before they arrived, i.e. it seems like they would rather provoke a situation they can dominate with excessive force rather than resolve the situation that could have been resolved otherwise without force. In any case, they often don’t seem interested in using the least amount of force.

Again, I’m saying that this happens in our everyday lives in our society now.

All I can say is Reverend Wright was correct:

God Damn this Country. We are going down a path NO DIFFERENT THAN THE NAZI’s.

they call it control, with overwhelming force

(it’s a military idea)

this made me cry, just because someone likes to smoke pot, does not justify shooting their dog in front of a child. really more than anything else ive ever seen in my life this post has nearly convinced me that i need to move to canada or europe.

TODAY’S QUESTION: How should possession of K2 be punished?
Senators didn’t disagree about the ban of K-2, but rather the charges that offenders would receive.

check out the first comment, what a hoot. Wonder if they’re a fire pup

Thank you for the correction. I trust your word and your ears, there is no way I would watch that video again.

The number of people who seem to be willing to justify what the cops did in this case is scary. When a person in authority decides to do something well then it is just a-ok, I guess.

The concept that this guy should not have been smoking pot and so should be prepared for what ever happens is so deep into the authoritarian mind set that I am simply unable to comprehend that kind of thinking (thank god).

A policeman cannot be critized no matter what he does or what you see him do, it is always right, or at the least an acceptable accident, never the cops fault.

Look I was just contacted by a guy who was pulled over and had 3 cop cars and 2 k-9s go over his car for hours. His crime: Latino in a BMW (oh yeah he did run a stop sign, that is the only charge). Tell me how that is justified.

a guy who was pulled over and had 3 cop cars and 2 k-9s go over his car for hours. His crime: Latino in a BMW (oh yeah he did run a stop sign …

That should teach him. Bet he won’t run a stop sign for a while. /s

I agree 100%.

And totally inappropriate in a civilian context. Unless you’re in a police state.

See my #170.

Yeah I looked it up apparently it is a crime to be Latino with a BMW here.

So, are these the guys that are your friends?
June-July 2000. A string of incidents of police misconduct by a group of four Oakland PD officers known as “the Riders” came to light. 119 people pressed civil rights lawsuits for unlawful beatings and detention, ultimately settling for $11 million with an agreement that the Oakland Police Department would implement significant reforms. Although all of the police officers involved were fired, three were later acquitted of criminal charges while one fled to Mexico to avoid prosecution.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0407-07.htm

An anti-war demonstration at the Port of Oakland turned violent this morning when Oakland Police opened fire with wooden dowels, “sting balls,” concussion grenades, tear gas and other non-lethal weapons when protesters at the gates of two shipping lines refused an order to disperse.

California photojournalist sues Oakland police over wrongful arrest
By Carlos Miller
An Oakland Tribune photographer who was handcuffed and forced to sit on the side of the road after attempting to photograph an accident on the freeway has filed a federal lawsuit against the city of Oakland.
Photojournalist Ray Chavez is seeking unspecified monetary damages as well as a court injunction that would force police to train its officers in allowing the media “reasonable access to accident and crime scenes and behind police lines.”
Judging by the incident that took place in May 2007, Oakland police are in dire need of training

Number of American soldiers seeking treatment for opiate abuse surges in past five years

Here’s another gift from our expedition and forays into Iraq and Afghanistan. And the Political Leadership that is sending our troops over into harms way have no defensible ground to stand on. The majority were alive and functioning during the 60′s and 70′s. (well, maybe not functioning)

But history will repeat itself and we’ll end up putting in prison a good percentage of the vets returning. Unconscionable.

“What risk are you taking? The risk of a SWAT team bursting in and killing your dog?”

Yes: bingo. Again: I don’t LIKE this or ACCEPT it as “good.” I’m just saying: that’s the risk you’re taking. Be aware.

I don’t “get” what’s so hard to understand about what I’m saying. People who post here can argue with me until the cows come home. I’m not the enemy; we’re on the same team, frankly.

I’m just pointing out reality. But whatever.

If you want something to change, then advocate for legalizing pot. Most of this kind of behavior – in re to someone with weed – will then go away.

The end.

We had a similar situation here last year when a BART officer killed an unarmed teen. He is now on trial for murder. The system doesn’t always work, but its getting better.

As for the lack of actionable intelligence, I’d be interested in seeing the filing for the warrant. I’m no internet wizard so I doubt I ever will, but it would be interesting to see what made them think they had to kick in this guy’s door in the middle of the night.

Right. Once we’re done using them, why not persecute them?

Hey, they volunteered.

Yes, those guys are my friends. And in the face of a homicide rate of +170 people per year, they suit up every day and do the best job they can. Sometimes people fuck up. It happens. Cops aren’t machines. They’re people. We are fallible by nature.

The examples you provide are all deserving of attention and consideration in Alameda County legislators deciding the rules of engagement for law enforcement, and defining excessive force boundaries.

I’m sure most people here are aware of this, though it hasn’t been mentioned so far. Blackwater and other mercenary groups have trained a large number of police (and I would imagine SWAT) across the US. And, if you watch the video with that in mind, their procedure makes sense. But I agree with most here, their behavior is way too violent and warlike.

It’s another aspect of a military industrial complex run amok.

Well said. Exactly the point I’ve been trying to make.

This guy had drugs in his house, forcing the cops to respond. The cops don’t have a choice. That’s the law. It’s harsh and painful and fucking sucks. But they have no choice but to follow the law.

We have tools to change the law, we don’t need to persecute the people who uphold it.

I know we’re on the same team. The reason you’re getting that response, IMHO, is because you are overlooking that violent and inappropriate police behavior happens in many other contexts, even where you should not expect and be aware of the risk. As though you are putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. It’s not completely fair, I agree. I believe your heart is in the right place, but what you wrote lends itself to misinterpretation in this emotionally charged thread.

Tail wagging ;-)

I doubt very much if it will go away wihtout massive push back against the authoritarians who now run this country. Cops love the power and they love the SWAT toys. Legislatures love to give them more. And let’s face it apparently Americans love to support that kind of thing.

I’m sorry for your loss, and I understand the vehemence in your argument now. Namaste.

Don’t get out in front of the data. All depends on what evidence and info they had going in. Guy with pipe and two grams of pot vs major armed drug dealer? Makes ALL the difference. Wait and see.

Still no justification for shooting a Welsh Corgi or a non-aggressive pit bull. Every dog barks when his home is invaded by a bunch of strangers in the middle of the night. These guys are suppoosed to have some judgement, with all that training, not go kill-crazy for no good reason.

Fuckin A, Excuse me Kris.

Did you read the news reports?

He copped a plea to Paraphernalia. And the locals used an Armed Forced Fucking Entry in the Presence of Children, killing family pets, the discharging and intentional use of firearms in the vicinity, in the same home as children, the intentional use of firearms in the presence of innocents ?

Does The Authorization and Use Of Excessive Force Mean Anything To You?

Thank you. Peace and a hug ;). And tell your folks I said hello lol.

I understand this is an emotional issue for you. At this point it seems to have devolved into an argument, and we’re not here to change eachothers’ minds. As I said at 197, I’m sorry for your loss. I’m not trying to argue for the killing of dogs, I’m just arguing that the police are not to blame here.

Did they injure a human being? Excessive force laws are designed to protect people.

And I assure you that the only reason the district attorney let him cop to the lesser charge is to keep him from suing the department and the county, and the only reason that is legally feasible is because of all the media attention this is getting.

And how do we know what the initial warrant was for? Yes, they only found a couple of grams of pot and a pipe, but what if they had some intelligence that suggested this man traffics large amounts of narcotics and guns? What if they had him on camera in a bar parking lot two weeks ago selling a 14 year old russian girl? We don’t know.

The two grams of pot they found aren’t why they went into the house in the first place.

Actually the cops had a great deal fo discretion, it even has a name “prosecutorial discretion.” It works for cops just like for prosecutors. Why do you think you do not get stopped by the cop when you drive by at 5 miles over the speed limit. Technically that is also a crime.

The point is, I think that this act was the act of out of control fascist thugs. These cops had a lot of room. They could have waited, they could have come in the day time. They could have arrested the guy at his place of work. They could have given him a summons telling him to appear in court on a certain date. They oould have called him and told him to stop by the station. They could have done noting. They had all those choices. Instead they chose to act like jack booted thugs and kill living beings.

I wonder how much overtime they got for having the raid in the middle of the night?

This is OT, but LE related.

Remember the Hutaree? You know the nut job Militia in Michigan from March that were going to overthrow over Government and way of life?

The Presiding Judge ordered them released today under strict conditions (it’s still under appeal from the DoJ)

Here’s a snippet : Roberts found that the secret recordings of militia members by an undercover agent contained “offensive and hate-filled speech,” but nothing that signaled a conspiracy to levy war against the government

Yea – Go ‘O’ Team !

Hard reality, law guy? If that dog being under foot could potentially cause an officer to fall during a dynamic entry, one or more officers can die. So they applied prosecutorial discretion.

For Misdemeanor Paraphernalia (is it even gross or simply petty ?)
Terrific allocation of resources and use of discretion.

Kris – Are we Presumed Guilty or are we Presumed Innocent at the time of the arrest?

but what if they had some intelligence that suggested this man traffics large amounts of narcotics and guns? What if they had him on camera in a bar parking lot two weeks ago selling a 14 year old russian girl? We don’t know.

But what if, But what if, But what if – Bullshit. Maybe you could sit back and read your own words. What if ? Is that they way our Justice System Operates – What The Fuck If?

Oh I think we know. Do you really think they would have thrown the other charges? Let him plea to the least serious of all the charges?

What a clusterfuck

Your original point was the cops had no choice, now you say they did have a choice. Which is it. Or is your point that they are police and therefore what they do is correct?

What does that matter? The cops didn’t execute him. They arrested him on an actionable warrant that was properly executed. They breached, cleared, detained the suspect in under 2 minutes. That’s the job. After that, its up to prosecutors and juries and judges and attorneys to decide his guilt.

I said they had no choice in entering the building. These guys are a SWAT team, not a district attorney. Why not direct the anger at the judge that signed the warrant? Or the DA that requested it? Or the CO that sent them in?

As for killing the dog, of course they had a choice. But the job of those officers is to make sure all the people involved go home safe, or go to jail safe, and if they felt the dogs could have compromised that safety then who are we to question them?

Hindsight is 20/20.

The cops didn’t execute him.

So that excuses all other actions? LE is allowed to do whatever, as long as they don’t execute the Dude?
Really Kris?

You are asking whether we are presumed innocent until proven guilty. I was just trying to demonstrate that your question doesn’t apply to this particular situation. The police did not prosecute this man, the executed a legally (as far as we know) obtained search warrant and took him into custody. They did not put him on trial or execute him. He was given due process.

Barbaric

This is the legacy of the Bush Family. Bush Sr started this crap when he was VP under Reagan. I swear that family has been turning this country into the 4th Reich.

Kris, Here is where are experiences are similar. Like you I have many close friends and associates in LE and others that work as Prosecutors. Those relationships span Federal, State, County and Local jurisdictions.

Through those relationships I have seen first hand misconduct, intentional abuse of power and corruption. Because of that I now view any use of Military Force such as SWAT or TAC with distrust and misgiving first. I presume the accused innocent first and foremost. (and I exercise my right to carry concealed, with permit)

God damn right and so sorry for your loss.

Well I guess the point Kris continues to make is that they are cops. That is it by the way.

Thanks for the fun firedogs! Lawguy, Librty, razorbrain. Again razor, I’m sorry for your loss. I’m all for FDL putting together a petition to local and state agencies asking them to reevaluate their use of force against animals. Maybe we can put something like that together.

Peace.

Kris
Thanks for the lively discussion.
c u around and Take Care

You know damn right well where they probably got that information?
From another small time bust.
When the busted my brother the very FIRST thing they did was try to get him to get meth delivered with 7 troopers in his face then get somebody to run over some pot.
He had GOD DAMN 18 4″ plants for god’s sake.He has a pacemaker and stints and he does meth??????
This is how the war never ends, Gestapo Stormtroopers

Hey Grand Pappy supported the Nazi’s in the 1930′s with lots of money… Not so Secret Nazi roots these Bush’s!!

Gestapo says ” just following orders”

Awesome reply, laughed my ass off!

Laker is a bit confused. The narcs, not the victims of the raid, were the criminals. They should pay for what they did. I’ll leave the price to your imagination.

Mark Read Pickens

Thank you for that information. This paramilitary trend needs to be discredited at once.

I do not subscribe to this idiotic line of thought / feeling.

What you’re actually doing is rationalizing your lack of empathy and your personal bias, which tells me that you can neither think, nor feel normally.

The fact that you can neither think nor feel empathy properly doesn’t bother me, except when I consider that you might be eligible for jury duty, or that you might be a neighbor.

I am with you all the way in terms of what you’ve said, RoyalOak, except for one thing:

You have used the terms “inhuman” and “subhuman” to describe the cretins who shot the dogs. I’m afraid the problem is that they are all too human, all too true to type. Your nephew is the exception.

We are a despicable species in many, if not most, regards. It is why I prefer the company of dogs.

Thank you, friend. I’ve had my afternoon weep just thinking about it.

Peace to you. And that’s all I’m trying to say here, is that to routinely treat spmebody’s beloved dog like some meaningless object, rather than a beloved member of that particular family and household that may just be doing what he’s supposed to do, may be within legal limits but is beyond human limits, and ignores the human reality of the situation. It might even provoke the owner to kill a police officer in response, out of rage and grief. (Personally, I regard my dogs as my children, not a whit of difference. What would a person do if their child got shot in such a way?) And it does nothing but breed contempt and anger for a law enforcement agency that would automatically behave in such a callous manner. It’s a small step from uncaringly taking the life of a pet dog to uncaringly taking the life of a person you don’t know. That trend toward callousness and brutalization that has taken over our society has got to be resisted and reversed, or we will all become savages again.

“Who are we to question them?” We are the public that has given them a tremendous amount of authority and deadly arms, and we have the legitimate expectation that they will not abuse or negligently exercise that authority to invade our homes, terrorize our families, destroy our possessions, kill our pets based on faulty information and Rambo-esque fantasies.

The state motto is the show me state….well they’ve shown me what barbaric effin morons they have for police, that animal posed ZERO threat, all you defenders of this lunacy are [Edited by Moderator. Attack the arguments not the person. No name calling]

I had a friend that spent two years in jail for smoking a joint of pot. He only had that one, so He wasn’t trafficer or distributor.

We all brag that we are a Country of Law, while our Law litterally makes Citizens criminals for smoking pot.

The killing of the Dogs relates to an overall problem that Law Inforcement Officials, many just dumb cops, make decisions on their own and seldom are held accountable for what they do.

All they have to do is sware they thought they were in danger by the dog, and they are justified for even killing puppies let alone big dogs.

We voted for all the officials that make these Laws and Rules, and hired the people who do these things, and give them the right to do it over our or the dogs right to live.

The American People have allowed their Governments to take way more power than they should have been given, and now will have a hard time resinding that power, or going back from the police state we are leading to.

Good lord. What world are we living in now? If that’s how Americans are treated, imagine being Iraqi or Afghani…

I hate this shit.

Did anybody else notice that the cop had to ask the man’s name…AFTER they broke into his home, terrorized his family, shot his dogs, forced him onto the floor and handcuffed him? Shouldn’t they have known his name — for sure — BEFORE they took such extreme actions? I understand that many criminals train dogs to be vicious guardians, but the residents appeared unarmed and peaceful, and the home did not look like a drug den or processing house. Somebody in a position of leadership should lose his/her job over this. And the cops should required to lay off the Viagra and steroids.

Barbaric

This is the legacy of the Bush Family. Bush Sr started this crap when he was VP under Reagan.

beg to differ capt. Different parts of the nation have had experiences such as this for over 100 years, at least.

Good point.

I read last night that the dogs were confined either in cages or behind a gate that confined them to the kitchen area. Which would remove any justification.

Also, the Columbia paper, apparently parroting the police, said they initially held back from shooting, but then had to. LIE, the audio is clear that the initial barking was followed immediately bu the shot that caused the screaming. Massaging the facts like that is SOP, IMHO.

I was just talking about the war on drugs in it’s current form.

We didn’t used to lock up anywhere near the % of our population before the war on drugs. Look at an incarceration chart sometime. It’s flat till the 1980′s then shoots up thru the roof. That’s pappy Bush’s handy work.