
President Barack Obama eats a nectarine following a town hall meeting at Kroger's Supermarket in Bristol, VA in 2009. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)
Speaking to reporter aboard Air Force One, President Obama said the White House will not bring up immigration reform until next year:
“We’ve gone through a very tough year and I’ve been working Congress pretty hard. So I know, there may not be an appetite immediately to dive into another controversial issue. There’s still work that needs to be done on energy. Mid-terms are coming up. So, I don’t want us to do something for the sake of politics that doesn’t solve the problem.”
The Washington Post quotes Obama as saying “there may not be an appetite” to address immigration reform this year:
“It’s a matter of political will,” Obama said during a rare visit to the press section of his presidential plane. He added, “This is a difficult issue. It generates a lot of emotions. . . . I need some help on the Republican side.”
On Monday, I asked whether the White House would put the screws to the Blue Dogs to pass immigration reform the way they did on health care, and the answer appears to be “no.” Rather, they will rely on their tried-and-true game plan for dealing with issues important to “f&%king r#%ard” liberals:
- Captivate validators (veal pen) to control messaging to the community
- Engage in symbolic gestures that don’t actually address the underlying problem
- Blame the GOP for the inability to act
- Wait it out until circumstances prevent them from doing anything at all
As we’ve seen in the past week:
- Captivate: Luis Gutierrez, who last week was threatening to tell Hispanic voters to stay away from the polls and withhold support from Democrats in the fall, has changed his tune: “Lindsey Graham has walked away,” Gutierrez said. “Let’s not blame Harry Reid.”
- Symbolic gestures: Obama criticizes the recently passed Arizona law as “misguided.” Eric Holder says he is “considering” a possible legal challenge. Gutierrez praises for instructing Holder to evaluate the measure’s constitutionality.
- Blame the GOP: Nydia Velazquez “blamed Republicans” for failure to secure the boarder. Obama says “I need some help on the Republican side,” and the Washington Post says he is “willing to wait in order to work with Republican senators.”
- Wait until it’s too late: If the Democrats could lose control of the House in 2010, getting something through Congress “next year” may well be impossible. Recall what happened to EFCA after Scott Brown beat Martha Coakley.
This could have serious consequences for the Democrats in 2010. As Markos notes, there is already a disturbing intensity gap between Democrats and Republicans with regard to voter turnout, and Latinos as a group are markedly lower than Democrats as a whole. As he says, “in a close election, where getting Democrats to the polls will mean the difference between massive losses and holding our ground, we can’t afford to lose any of our base.”
But there’s also the distinct possibility that the validators will not be able to tamp down anger among Hispanic voters who were already upset about Obama’s broken promise to deal with immigration reform last year. The passage of the Arizona law has brought community anger to the boiling point, and massive demonstrations are already planned in 70 cities for May Day. The White House “veal pen” strategy breaks down when a community overthrows its validators for failure to act in meaningful ways. That could easily happen with immigration.
It could also swing the election against Harry Reid, who very much needs high Hispanic turnout to win his election. If they believe his gestures at immigration reform are meaningless, and rightfully insist that he has the power to bring a meaningful bill before the Senate for a vote, he could lose his seat — and he knows it. Which is exactly why Guitierrez and others have been trotted out to point community anger at Lindsey Graham, not Reid.
The bottom line: immigration reform is only going to get more difficult to pass after the election. And one of Obama’s tightest relationships is with the big tech companies like Microsoft and Oracle, who very much want immigration reform to pass so the cap can be lifted on H1-B visas. Microsoft alone spent $6.7 million on lobbying in 2009, and they have donated heavily to both parties. John Kyl was one of the “grand bargainers” of 2007, and Snowe and Collins have been supportive in the past. I find it very hard to believe that these powerful constituencies could not cough up a Senate Republican or two if need be, but there is no evidence that the White House has asked them to do so.
Rather than an obstacle, Lindsey Graham looks to be performing the role played by Joe Lieberman on health care: a convenient excuse that lets everyone off the hook, frees them from taking action and deflects anger from Harry Reid. But that also means that after the election, immigration could very well be the new EFCA.
Update: CNN’s Dana Bash tweets that “senate democrats set to hold a presser later today unveiling immigration reform proposal.”




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Lucy meet football
Patent pending.
This is about as surprising as the quality of a prize in a small box of Cracker Jacks.
The President is a coward, when he’s not giving we the people or liberty the shaft.
I’m hip to the message: We’re really on your side, but we’re not going to do anything for you, but get out there and vote for us anyway, ‘cuz where else you gonna’ go?
I went to the Green Party on the day Obama signed the Health Insurance Guaranteed Profit Act. The Democratic Party has become a waste of time and energy, an exercise in futility.
EFCA is one model. HCR is another, where this process gets dragged out long enough to fire up the opposition while quelling our side, and preemptive caving to conservatism and corporatism lead to a bill that does not fundamentally solve the problem.
The White House “veal pen” strategy breaks down when a community overthrows its validators for failure to act in meaningful ways. That could easily happen with immigration.
That whole veal pen thing not working out the way you expected, Rahm?
As always, great reporting, Jane.
I would be surprised and pleased if the senate democrats started to separate from the president. He would not hesitate to run the party into the ground if he thought it would help him get re-elected.
I would be shocked if the Dems in Congress left Immigration Reform until next year. This is by far their best weapon for victory in November.
Jane !
There’s still work that needs to be done on energy.
It’s gonna be interesting watching him maneuver his way through that whole off-shore drilling initiative, given the obvious.
It would be funny if it weren’t so recklessly stupid.
The Ds are circling the wagons to protect their corp sponsors. Where are our Indian raiding parties?
Thats a plus as far as the nuclear industry is concerned. If the Nuclear industry wants to expand they need someplace to put their waste. Harry as Senate leader stops his his state from being that place. His state is concerned about an accident scaring tourists.
If the Nuclear industry gets its way we give up Harry’s state the next election after that. If there is an accident we give up that state for a generation.
Now when you consider how big business loves low bid contractors the only question is when. That plus al Queida with a rocket launcher can easily take out a train or truck from a distance.
Guarding 1,000 miles of road or track from the distance an anti tank rocket launcher can hit is impossible.
Many roads and train tracks go through populated towns or run along the course of rivers.
The Rhambama Message to Latino Voters: Vote D in the midterms. Get us re-elected first. Then, we may or may not get to a shitty immigration reform bill that is a totally benign and worthless clusterfuck that may make matters worse (sort of like our health
careinsurance bill and ourjobstax cuts bill).Now now, let’s not be too hard on Obama. After all, every Democratic politician is a coward — in my opinion after watch no one stand up for the public option. This has been painful to watch. To be so hopeful after 2006, then 2008 — and to see nothing of substance come to fruition, no wonder there is no intensity for turnout for the Dems. They have to realize this and just not care is my only conclusion. So why should I?
Hispanics don’t vote next election we lose California the west the some of the south. maybe Chicago and without that Illinois gets into play.
Rahm with his advice to House Dems to run against immigration when he was running House Dem reelection efforts can’t avoid the blame for this.
It will be funny watching Obama and the Blue Dogs run away from this. Good news the idea of a Third Party gets a big boost and no it won’t be the Tea Baggers.
Over here ! *g*
About two years ago, Obama was specifically bashing his party. Then, during the campaign he invoked the spirit of asshole Ronald Reagan.
Obama would bury his Party for another term.
You use the pronoun ‘we’ as though you still associate yourself with the Ds.
What’s next Petro?
Bill should hire Americans whats the use of going to school if good paying jobs go to cheaper to pay immigrants?
Whats the use of research Bill if immigrants go back home to india and China and start competing companies with your tech moron?
Any bets Bill those immigrants who went home set up the whole illegal pirating of your software business?
How much money has the Music and Film industry lost because of this Bill?
Palin/Trump ’12 via Huffpo
Well, I’ve got the “Indian” & “Parties” covered, you do the raiding … *g*
suddenly the air is acrid with sulfur fumes
Yes they are Annoying but I’m only voting for Progressive Dems next election Blue Dogs nope I’m voting Green, Socialist anyone but them and the GOP.
After the election if the Dems lose big we can talk about which Third Party to support. I favor a we support who can win where approach.
See the GOP is trying to lose this coming election even worse than we are the logic of this thinking escapes me.
Do Jeb and Mitt want to be Sarah’s VP?
There aren’t any progressive Ds; they’re all in the Veal Pen. Did you not read what Jane wrote in the post about Grijalva in #1 & #2?
You can not tell me you all are still surprised?!
Look, your votes don’t matter!1! They don’t in the least! The online whining is pathetic.
You have no representation. Good luck with your 3rd party.
Didn’t Luis Gutierrez sell out the Harold Washington coalition (Chicago’s First African American Mayor) for the Daley Machine’s support to be a Congressman. I wonder what he sold out for this time?
The guy is suppose to great helping his voters on a personal level I doubt we can target him unless Fitz targets him.
Uh, yeah. Now, about that health care bill…
Yep, but immigration quite probably has a ticking clock, and like EFCA, there is probably a point past which they can no longer pass it.
They are running down that clock.
Audio book disc loaded. I’m off. BBL.
No I didn’t still I’m moving to Wisconsin soon I don’t know the local political scene I’ll make my own choices once I read the local papers and check out the local and national issues.
“…there is already a disturbing intensity gap between Democrats and Republicans with regard to voter turnout…”
I don’t see how the just announced ‘the accomplishment party” message is going to change that and the “we’re not quite as bad as the other guys” message is a little old and increasingly less true.
“… we can’t afford to lose any of our base.”
Too late!
On Healthcare, ending the war a real FDR sized Jobs Bill on keeping people in their homes the biggest issues voters care about the FDL Lefty view is more popular than the Democrats view, which is more popular than the GOP view which is more popular than the Tea Baggers view.
Given that the banks are still gambling and every gambler losses sometime another financial collapse is only a question of when.
Given that the Tea baggers Nationally can’t get the attendance the Immigration Rights movement got in L.A never mind the other marches in other cities well lets just say we can form a third party quite easily.
“I would be surprised and pleased if the senate democrats started to separate from the president.”
Would that be DINO Lincoln, Nelson, Liebermonster block of obstructionists or the “we talk a good game but cave in the end block” of weasels?
Obama needs the Justice Dept to file a suit and stop this or for the Supremes to strike it down.
Isn’t this just another case of rotating villains?
I lost my “intensity” about 6 months ago and it won’t come back any time soon.
I would just note that Obama’s healthcare plan cut out the undocumented. That was how 45 million uninsured suddenly became something like 34 million.
You are probably right. I do suspect (hope?) that activists and the grassroots for immigration reform are better prepared for this fight than labor was for EFCA, and that the AZ law changes the dynamic.
“As he says, ‘in a close election, where getting Democrats to the polls will mean the difference between massive losses and holding our ground, we can’t afford to lose any of our base.’”
Obama should have thought of that instead of spending his whole time in office insulting his base. Then again I guess the Democrats true base is the corporate lobbyists and the voters are just occasional annoyances that you have to lie to.
Lindsey I’m not worried about the GOP outed him if the GOP wants to fight a civil war with themselves heck we could win this election.
McCain and Crist are already in trouble even if we lose those seats the GOP spends money defending safe seats instead of using that cash to pick up more seats elsewhere.
BTW can anyone point me to what Obama’s immigration reform would look like? I can’t remember seeing anything specific anywhere, just some vague generalities.
”So, I don’t want us to do something for the sake of politics that doesn’t solve the problem.”
We get it Obama. Like you did with HCR and are currently doing with Financial Reform.
Yes.
These dramas to deflect blame are getting so elaborate they need to bring in William Goldman.
Still vote if there are no Dems you like vote third party. Sure we will lose but we are setting things up for the next election.
I agree that it is your only hope. Go for it.
Here you go — leaked to Politico:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM154_proposal.html
“It could also swing the election against Harry Reid…”
I fail to see this as bad news.
Jane you are one of the few people who correctly analyzes the behavior of the Democratic party, keep up the good work!
“… working Congress pretty hard” is a phrase guaranteed to make The Daily Show and SNL, and I think Obama knows that.
“Ridden hard and put up wet” is something President Lindsay Graham has probably only heard in a different context, but it certainly applies here. Call the WAAAHMbulance.
Lets see how the new immigration rights marches do as far as turnout goes and compare that to the Tea Bagger protest size then we can talk more about a third party.
Lets see Obama bow to the Tea Bagger piddling crowds and ignore us. Even if the immigration rights crowd gets only half what they did last time that will still be bigger than what the Tea Baggers got the last time they marched.
Only who GOP or Dem has better cards than us?
I wonder how McCain is doing in AZ sure this law might depress Hispanic votes nationally if nothing is done but in AZ McCain came out for this law huge in order to win the GOP primary ( he hopes ).
However pissing off one third of your total voters is not a good idea to win statewide.
What immigration rights marches?
The ones on my teevee? Because there hardly ever are any.
As opposed to the nonstop tea party camera-seeking, which is entirely successful 24/7. And not only on FOX; Rachel and Keith loves them some tea.
I always vote. Will vote for my rep definitely.
From the cold and calculating political standpoint, letting GOP racists rile up Latino and Democratic voters right up to election day makes sense. But from the responsible standpoint it doesn’t.
Come to think about it Hispanic Males get stopped by the police a bunch the idea of other states maybe having us carry ID papers could easily piss us off and increase our turnout.
The last Tea Bagger protest with Nation Wide estimates of crowd size reported by the media showed that the size of the Tea Bagger protests were down more than 2/3 compared with the first one.
The size of Yesterday’s Tea Bagger Protest Nation wide…well thats anyone’s guess.
As of 4:35 Friday I still can’t find any National Crowd estimates I looked at Google News, Koz, HuffPost, FiveThirtyeight, FDL, even Dave at Crooks and Liars doesn’t have an article yet on the size of the Tea Bagger protest and this is Tax Day their biggest Hate Holiday. If the Tea Bagger anti Tax Movement can’t rally the troops today then whats up?
The first Protest Tea bagger protest the Wiki said had 268,00 – 311,460 two other nation wide protests followed according to wiki but no numbers were reported.
Then 75,000 to tens of thousands show up for the next protest but we already have reason to doubt the high estimates because Fox News faked a photo of the crowd size as the Daily Show reported
But even if we accept the high number 75,000 is more than 2/3 less than the 268,000 the Tea Baggers had in turnout when they first appeared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests
By way of comparison the Immigrant Rights March had 500,000 in L.A alone.
The largest national turnout of protests occurred on April 10, 2006, in 102 cities across the country. Some of the largest demonstration was in Los Angeles with an estimated crowd of about 500,000,[1][2] 350,000-500,000 in Dallas[3][dead link] and around 300,000 in Chicago.
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/41382
My bold Very nice set up Teddy thanks
The immigration debate would have also spiked Republican turnout at the midterms. Has Markos the funnel head done the analysis on that side of the equation.
The GOP despite Nonstop Tea Party Fox News coverage can’t get more crowds than a racial minority fighting for their rights can!
Rachel and Keith need to start reading my Diaries:)
As we contemplate our individual voting strategies for 2010 we should not forget that this is a census year and in the aftermath of the census comes redistricting.
This means that quite possilby the most meaningful races in the long term will be for seats in the state legislatures rather than congress. It is the state legislatures that will be drawing the congressional district boundaries for 2012 and the next 10 years.
Look at my Diary at my 58 elections are about turnout if the Tea baggers can’t get bigger crowds than the immigration rights protesters then can we expect them to get bigger crowds on election day?
Well if the police and Minutemen are hassling Hispanics outside voting booths sure. But in a fair election not a chance.
And if we don’t get a fair election Dems can expect us to leave.
I did a brief tour of duty with the Greens in the past; they seemed marginal and ineffective.
But I’m gonna do it again anyway. F*** the Democrats.
Good point the GOP has to cheat to win. I expect a bunch more voting machine problems that for some reason only help the GOP and more GOP voter suppression laws to pass.
I wonder what the GOP is planning in other states?
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
This has Rahm Emmanuel political strategy all over it and I think it’s time that an insurgent coalition, led by the Hispanic caucus, blows the Evert Dirksen wing of the Democratic Party into tiny little pieces. If Rahm wants to reduce Democratic majorities in both houses so he can triangulate with the fascists in 2011 then give ‘im minorities in both houses with progressive majorities in the Democratic caucus.
If a progressivre coalition can disrupt ObamaRahma’s game I think that the Democrats may even be able to hold narrow margins in both houses after November but with a whole lot less Blue Dogs.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, TIME TO STOP FIGHTIN’ WITH EACH OTHER!!
Yeah, increasing the cap on H1-Bs so that Oracle and Microsoft can flood the job market with more inexpensive indentured employees should definitely help the unemployment rate for US citizens. This is such a good idea that they probably don’t need to package it with immigration reform except that it would make the issue a bit too public. Of course a better solution would be to open the flood gates for doctors and lawyers so we could drive those costs into a competitive structure but better to focus on driving down labor costs on a “service” industry that is mostly middle-class.
Like ramping up troops in Afghanistan, following Bush policy on TBTF or the Health Insurance Protection Reform.
Preach it Brother!
I just want to be sure what we’re talking about here. As I understand it, this is the reform favored by progressives:
a) Employer sanctions that will be entirely dependent on the will of each administration to enforce and each Congress to fund. Any actual enforcement will be met with cries that we can’t deport the illegal workers because it will “break up families” and “penalize people who have built a life here.” (Translation: bullshit faux reform.)
b) Amnesty for 12-20 million future Democratic voters in order to maintain future Corporate Democratic control of Congress.
c) No meaningful expansion of border fencing so that more and more illegals can come here each year until it’s time for another “never again” amnesty like the “one time only” amnesty of 1986.
Summary: The goal being to reward corporations with an ever increasing pool of both cheap labor (illegals) and skilled labor (H1b foreign tech workers) so that we can screw the traditional labor base and completely alienate whatever remains of middle class voters who don’t live in the progressive coastal enclaves.
Have I got that right?
Thanks, Jane. I just started reading the immigration proposal. My first reaction was “Is this reform?” It sounds so far like turning the War on Drugs into the War on Aliens.
“Ridden hard and put up wet”! LOL, man, you are funny dude :) Thanks a lot, I needed that.
Jane: you’re right, the drama is slowly increasing in complexity, although more reminiscent of early WWF material in its subtlety. The recent ‘quasi forcing out’ of our friend Lyndsey comes to mind. Clearly somebody’s got him by them tiny balls.
American politicians do not care whether people march in the streets or not. Public protest of that kind is an obsolete relic of the 1960s. Bush ignored the largest coordinated public protest in history against the then-upcoming war in Iraq.
A far more effective tactic, as you suggested earlier, is to vote for a third party. Not voting would only work as an effective strategy if a huge number of eligible voters abstained (so that total turnout was 25% or less), and that seems unlikely. Otherwise, the Democratic Party can simply use our not voting as part of a ‘move toward the center’ narrative. However, voting for a more progressive or leftist third party demonstrates more clearly the reason for defection.
Vote third party.
Interesting how Immigration Reform has apparently morphed into a wish list for ultra-conservatives
Maybe that’s why Obama doesn’t want to tackle this. This is kind of like the Public Option, people think they are for it but everyone has a different definition.
In addition to a quasi militarization of our borders, I also came across this:
This is in essence a national identity card. A) Does anyone think that our bungling government will be able to make this work? Yes, they will spend billions on government contractors in the process, but will it work? B) Isn’t this just another big step in the construction of the surveillance state? Another slap at privacy? I mean this would make me feel queasy even if our government and its officials were competent. Now think about this with the current crew of crooks, cronies, and fools.
No thats the current System we say go after the CEO’s Put the Head of Wallmart and McDonalds in jail and we end jobs for illegals overnight.
The AZ bill seems more designed at voter suppression than doing anything.
Amnesty means you can work for citizenship who ever passes Amnesty gets the votes yes remember Bush tried to pass this and his own side stopped him? Karl Rove said the GOP can’t win without Hispanics?
Even without those 12-20 million votes the Hispanic population is growing but Lou Dobbs and Glenn Beck have killed the GOP’s chances of getting our votes.
Yes that was Reagan remember funny how the GOP never mentions that.
I am all for taxing goods from countries that don’t pay their workers a good wage can we find some common ground on that?
Can we find some common ground to prevent outsourcing jobs to low wage countries?
I’m sure the system will be hacked same as all the credit card safe guards and spam filters on the net.
But the document clearly says that it’s not supposed to be used that way and that the authors would be very disappointed if all of that centralized information were then used for other purposes. The card would also have some sort of (software?) that would allow the holder to make some of the information private by some undisclosed means. This should work like a charm.
I should add that the document states that the new biometric card will be used only for work-eligibility and Social Security purposes. Does anyone believe this?
Having read nothing in depth, I’ll just grab my left butt cheek and say: sounds about right to me! Corporate agenda met: check! Permanent Republic Majority in place: check!
More of the same old, same old.
Thanks, Jane. Great reporting, as always. Too bad the news sucks.
On a related note re the Tea Partiers…. their outrage was mostly faux, and the original upwelling was based on 2 things: racism and or the preceived hatred anything “liberal” (yeah: lol, would that it were so). Sure the initial “parties” were mostly grass-roots, but there was no real cohesive message or theme. That’s ok, but they never really got it together in terms of any kind of real “platform.” It just became rather incoherent rage about ???? I don’t think most of those people really “get” what’s going on, and how much they’re being ripped off by the corporations.
It would be nice to make common cause with them, but they see us as “the enemy who must be demolished.” How to make common cause with that? Plus they firmly believe that raising tax levels on the one percenters will be “horrible” for themselves, personally. And finally, they now believe that social security is an “entitlement,” and that none of us “deserve” it.
I can see the Tea Party dying away gradually because it’s not based in any kind of reality. And the initial outrage over BHO winning the election is starting to die away. I mean seriously: I’m ticked off with BHO, myself. But he won fair and square. It’s just stupid to go around acting like he didn’t win, or it wasn’t fair. I think that’s also why the Tea Party is starting to fade… no doubt, though, the Koch brothers will find some way to pour more of the obscene wealth into some way to gin up phoney outrage at us dfh… we’re always an excellent scapegoat and distraction from what’s really going on.
Oh I believe it! And I just bought this lovely golden bridge over the San Francisco Bay for a very cheap price!
Who do they hire to come up with acronyms like this?
I was too busy looking at the text in the beginning to find the punch-line:
Change we can BELIEVE in codified.
You can call me all the names you want but I still am staying home in 2010 and 2012. If the dems who we elect to office refuse to do the things that we sent them to do, then why in the hell do we continue to vote for them? You want to get Obama’s attention, stay home and let the democrats get their ass kicked in November. And after this happens tell him your next Mr I love reaching across the aisle Obama. The only way progressives are going to get a dem party that responds to us is by allowing this dem party to get sent home. If we are not ready to do what it is going to take to turn the dems around then we need to stfu and quit complaining when they screw us.
Who will be the equipment makers? Who will be the private sector providers? What will be the costs of either? Has anyone thought this through even minimally?
Jesus, I hardly know where to begin, but I’ll try:
a) Going after the CEO’s: You’re joking, right? First of all, the CEO are far enough removed from the actual hiring, and are smart enough not to put things on paper, that it will be impossible for their high-priced, supremely competent lawyers not to get them acquitted. This is assuming they would ever come to trial. Given that not one single banker has been indicted by the Obama administration for the mortgage fraud and economic meltdown, what makes you think that big campaign contributors are ever going to get indicted?
b) So you admit that amnesty is a craven ploy to get voters. Then, I might ask, if it works this time, why shouldn’t we just keep on doing it on a cyclical basis every twenty years or so. It sure worked fine after 1986; I’m sure that most of the three million illegals who got amnesty then have voted Dem, and have had kids who are now of voting age. Hey! The Dems probably picked up 8-10 million or more voters that way. Works like a charm!
c) You said getting “our” votes: I take it you’re Hispanic, correct?
d) Yes, we can agree on not outsourcing jobs. And we can partially agree on taxing (tariffs) on goods from countries that don’t pay a “good” wage. But what we really need is tariffs on cheaper goods. A “good” or living wage in a foreign country can still be far less than the equivalent wage here. (In some cases, this is due to lower living costs in general. In other cases, it’s because health care, child care, etc., is provided for on a national basis.)
It will also contain a feature that allows them to terminate your life remotely and instantly if you say anything they don’t like, and a microphone to insure that they hear everything you say.
Can’t rule it out ;).
Let me add to that.
–Also, put career psychopaths like Lieberman, McCain and Graham on climate bill/& or immigration. Trumpet it as a triumph of bipartisanship then express surprise when Graham/Liebrman/McCain walk off bill and declare immigration reform dead, long live what(?!!) Enemy belligerents bill? Oil companies? Immigration reform AZ style, or John McCain’s reelection? Lieberman’s new job on a wingnut welfare thinktank?
Wanna sell it?
rachel@msnbc.com
They read all their email. Send your diaries along, dude. They need to read them.
Also going back up the document a little:
There are currently 307 million Americans (don’t know if this includes undocumented or not) and I believe we all have Social Security cards. The current workforce population is somewhere in the neighborhood of 155 million. Does anyone have any confidence that A) the Social Security Administration can do this, do it without many, many errors, or do it in a timely fashion?
Obama will get immigration reform that benefits and consolidates the power of the Oligarchs but does nothing for immigrants or the rest of the American working class. Mid-term losses for his party can only make his job easier.
Yes, and I want to thank you for being so easy to deal with. I particularly like your willingness to let me record the sale through MERS rather than having to do that pesky, costly business of actually recording the deed with the County Clerk. And I’m really, really, glad you don’t mind me selling off your mortgage note as part of a shitty new Goldman Sachs Timberwolf II CDO.
Most who are anti immigration would probably prefer voting over protesting. Given the economy, any general (not primary) race during the midterms is going to favor the anti immigration crowd, though I trust the progressives will make a strong case for race, as they did constantly with Obama, though doubt it’ll have the same traction.
If Obama wants to pass immigration reform, he should do it this year when the flak will hit the Dems more than him. After the midterms, the debate will hit him square. If not this year, he’ll defers it to the next term, unless he’s planning to pass a conservative bill. His administration is an electioneering machine. He might start governing in his second term, if he gets there.
The Social Security administration is about the only thing in gov’t that DOES work. It is really efficient and right on time all the time. Don’t know whether it would be able to do this without a huge increase in staff.
In a word, NO.
BTW — Big article in the LATimes about a year ago on the problems people are having with the SS Administration erroneously classifying them as deceased. Seems that names get mixed up, typos occur in entering date, etc. How much of a problem? It only happens 35 times a day. (roughly 13,000 times a year) Just imagine the potential for fuckup when the SS Administration’s job gets that much bigger and more complicated with processing and distributing these biometric cards.
Also seems that the SS Admin finds it much easier to declare someone dead than it does to “undeclare” them. (There’s some kind of a joke analogy here to zombie banks and the “undead” but I can’t pull it together at the moment.) People who are erroneous declared dead don’t just have SS payments stopped. If they’re still working, contributions to their accounts don’t get recorded and go into a miscelleanous account. Their employers are notified that they are employing someone with an illegal SS account number. Their tax returns are refused by the IRS, and tax refunds withheld. Their credit cards often end up being cancelled by the issuers. They can’t get new loans on cars, homes, etc. In short, a Class A Clusterfuck.
And we’re going to base the elimination of illegal immigrant hiring on this kind of biometric, Big Brother bullshit?
So what most of you are saying is, let’s elect Republicans instead of Democrats because the Democrats only try and fail to give us what we want, whereas the Republicans not only don’t try but actively work to give us what we don’t want, and anyway the Democrats deserve to get dumped because they don’t do exactly what want them to do.
*Who* said that? Who!?!?
I’d say that question shouldn’t be answered. We’d be bad poker players if we did. Since it seems President Obama is playing little games as well.
I hope all you Hispanics realize that if you don’t vote the Democrats back in, you will never get Immigration Reform with the REPUBLICANS, remember the FEMA camps.
First of all, I haven’t seen much really “trying” to give us what we want from the Dems. Nobody, not one single Dem, held the line on a public option. Not one single Dem senator put forth a public option amendment on the Senate floor. And the big talkers in the House, Alan Grayshit, Anthony Weasel, Dennis Caving-inich, and Nancy Puke all caved.
As for dumping Dems because “they don’t do exactly what want them to do”: No, we need to dump Dems because they don’t anything we want them to do. They don’t deliver real HCR, they don’t roll back the civil liberties transgressions of the Bush Administration, they don’t prosecute crimes on Wall Street or against torture. And the biggest reason we have to return the GOP to power is to let things get really, really, really bad. Things are too good now; people still have a deluded hope that the future will be better. Hence they sit on their asses. It’s only when we have a complete economic catastrophe, one worse than the Great Depression, that enough people will rise up in protests and demonstrations and civil (even uncivil) disobedience and force real change.
We heard you the first forty times.
Why are you still here?
No.
They don’t want to hire Americans – they’d have to be willing to hire people who are over 25 and want more than $40k a year, with benefits.
And that might mean they’d have to cut the executive pay and bennies, or cut profits, and they can’t have that happen. /s
Anyone think that this will cause the 10.8 million undocumented cited in the proposal to run out and sign up?
No, everyone’s saying they don’t try, but rather only pretend they will to keep us in line while they sell us out to the same corporate overlords that the Rethugs want to sell us out to, except that the Rethugs are more honest about it and never pretend to be on our side in the first place.
You’re probably too decent a person to readily appreciate that depth of mendacity ;-).
Social Security works but the reason this new BELIEVE system is even being considered is because current attempts to use SS information for verification have been so error plagued. If on one form someone is John Smith and on another John Q. Smith or John Quincy Smith, then an SS verification for a job would come back negative, or if someone just typed in the wrong info at any point.
Because he is a self-confessed “nihilist” and has nothing better to do than try to disrupt the efforts of others to be productive.
See his Comment #85 to Massacio’s April 23 post on “Obama’s Common Sense Approach to Financial Reform: Hold Onto Your Wallet.”
Not worth feeding.
“We’ve gone through a very tough year” and it’s… April still. Poor Congress. How hard they’ve worked. I guess they get to sit on their collective hands for the next 8 months. Oh, wait, they have campaigning to do. Suddenly they have their second wind.
The last page of the proposal which has various odd add-ons, includes this:
So buy an overpriced house from a bankster and get a visa. What an interesting
scamidea.Jane it is unclear to me what your position on immigration is and which policy that you think would be the most effective to resolve this issue?
While I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself the devil is always in the details. You might consider looking at the document purported to be the Reid-Schumer-Menendez Draft linked @47. There doesn’t seem to be a lot to like if you are a civil libertarian or an immigrant looking for a break. Certainly not much that I find appealing.
More than one way to keep pumping real estate prices. Creative in a diabolic way. If I remember right, a scheme like this is part of the reason for the current Vancouver bubble.
This issue is so hot, it makes for an excellent election year vehicle, if you’re on the correct side of the issue from the perspective of the voters. In this case, the backlash against Arizona’s ham-handed bill makes for juicy turn-out-the-vote material.
I expect no progress before November.
Hmm… I’m mixing metaphors today. Juicy material?
I still expect no progress before November.
Rest of quote: “I prefer that we do something for the sake of politics that doesn’t even ADDRESS the problem.”
How about a write-in, “None of the above is acceptable.”
You’re kidding, right?
“….the Democrats deserve to get dumped because they don’t do exactly what want them to do …”
I am an issues voter not a member of the democrat fan club. If they want my vote they must earn it. So far they haven’t even made a down payment. I agree that they haven’t done any of the things they promised to get my vote.
The only campaign promise that that Obama has kept is the one i held my nose and voted in spite of, escalating the war in Afghanistan.
The thing that always bugged me about Frank Gaffney is that his entire strategic assessment relied upon a secret motive that was held by a large group of people. The level of discipline in adherence to a radical agenda was just implausible. I think of Frank Gaffney when I hear the elaborate breakdown here. The extent of effort and level of nefarious operation involved in being exceedingly mediocre is absurd. You talk about the subversive motives for not doing things that you would do as president without the slightest glint of acknowledging that perhaps that’s why you’re not the president. I don’t like it that our politics are so muddy and disturbingly affected by the stupidity class but they most definitely are. You’re so sure that “not addressing this agenda will lose him the Hispanics” is so naively arrogant. Ignarrogant. As in arrogant via ignorance. I know you like to pretend that FOX news doesn’t exist, but the evident truth is that this guy is fighting for air in a toxic environment every day and you don’t know why he hasn’t decreed a progressive agenda. Apparently a person is only a “true” progressive if they bash Obama. He’s a sellout. In this climate I was hoping Obama wouldn’t broach Immigration til after the mid-terms. Seems only sensible to anyone who bothers to remember that the liars and thieves could make great loads of hay out of that issue. If Republicans chose to they could provoke a violent rebellion with some Frank Luntz talking points. Really, do you just ignore all the sources of destruction in this country? Ever since Rahm pissed you off you only see red for Obama? What idiot free community are you walking in every day that you can forget the depth of the real enemies in this country? Lucky you.
You see Obama’s actions and make assumptions about what you think is in his heart.
The people you are addressing your argument to see his actions, and assume they reflect his heart.
Oh gee, you don’t think lobbyists for __ industry wrote the bill do you. I’d say that’s unheard of, but now I’m really starting to wonder /s
Nah, wrong IMHO. Because Graham and Lieberman are too prominent in these little kabuki dramas. Why hire career psychopaths to do the job for you? And what do they get in return backscratch-wise.
I have to disagree because this is starting to look like it’s touching an issue that’s important to me detainees, Gitmo and civil rights in general. Enemy belligerents is a Lieberman/MCCain (& probably Obama) bill in committee right now. It’s pretty damn draconian. Look it up. American citizens are not immune from detention.
So what does Graham/McCain/Lieberman get in return for all this service running interference?
And do you really think the country thinks Obama is a good strong president for stepping back from a bill that could/might if he tried counter the AZ state bill written by a *real* honest to god Nazi?!?
It all looks very dirty. And I’m usually willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, even as he sicks his lawyers on habeas corpus petitions. Even as he uses 25 percenter Lieberman to f*ck up healthcare for the corporate masters.
definition of INSANITY – Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results! Hell No! I will not be voting.
Gotta link for that?
Obama seems to be more of a “play nice” kinda guy – i.e. no appetite for anything unless it is easy. Easier to do nothing than to have principles and stake out positions.
Here is hoping that after the next round of selections, Harry Reid is gone, the democan’ts have only 51 or 52 seats in the senate, and a higher %age of those remaining are progressives!
Still waiting for the change – if not in politics, at least for the donations mis-spent.
Unfortunately I don’t have link, but I can direct you to a similar article. Couldn’t track down the LA Times piece (probably couldn’t come up with the exactly right search criteria on the Times’ less-than-wonderful search site.) However, I did find an article from about the same time (June 30, 2009) written for McClatchy Newspapers by Michael Doyle. Here’s a couple of graphs:
Just as a reminder, the L.A. Times piece, which may have been inspired by the McClatchy piece — or may have inspried the McClatchy piece (imitation being the sincerest form of demi-plagiarism) had far bigger numbers. (i.e. 35 times a day nationwide.)
Sorry I couldn’t leave a link for the McClatchy piece but I found it excerpted on one of news aggregation sites in a small sidebar box with no individual ID line.